[S1 E6] Warrior Women Rising | Finding and Living Your Purpose with Dionna McPhatter

Hosts: Ashley Miller (USMA '11) & Kafi A. Joseph (USMA '03) — Guest: Dionna McPhatter (USMA '04) Producer: Xeon Simpson

🎙 [S1 E6] Warrior Women Rising — Episode 6: Finding & Living Your Purpose with Dionna McPhatter 🎙

In Episode 6 of Warrior Women Rising, co-hosts Ashley and Kafi continue their series on finding and living your purpose — this time in conversation with West Point grad, entrepreneur, and data-for-good visionary, Dionna McPhatter.

Dionna's story begins with an unexpected transition most veterans never anticipate: graduating from West Point without commissioning. After three hip surgeries, she stood on the same field as her classmates on graduation day — cheering them on instead of raising her right hand. What followed was a journey that took her from the halls of a CIA interview to the aisles of Walmart with P&G, from the chaos of early-stage startups to building her own creative and data studio, Radical Possibilities — with a music tech company, Supa, close to her heart.

Through candid conversation, laughter, and deeply honest reflection, Dee takes Ashley and Kafi, and us, through what it really means to live in integrity with yourself. Not the honor-code kind. The kind where you get quiet enough to know what actually matters to you, build an environment that keeps you there, and have the courage to walk away from what doesn't — even when it looks great from the outside.

This episode is for anyone who has ever had their plan upended, wondered if they chose right, or felt the tension between what the world expects and what their soul actually wants.

Themes

• Unexpected transition and finding your footing
• Living in integrity — with yourself, your values, and your purpose
• The power of community and finding your people
• Using data, technology, and creativity as tools for good
• Why the music industry is broken — and what reimagining it looks like
• Gratitude as a daily, active practice

🎧 Tune in, share in the story, and get ready to rise. 💛

#WarriorWomenRising #WomenWhoLead #WomenVeterans #VeteranVoices #RiseUp #HowAreYou #DataForGood #RadicalPossibilities #FindYourPurpose #WestPoint

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If there's someone whose story you'd like us to feature (including your own), or insights, reflections or feedback, any of the above mediums are great for that, too!

~ A & K

Transcript

Kafi A. Joseph (00:13)
Alright everybody, welcome back to Warrior Women Rising. I am...

your co-host, Kafi Joseph, an Army veteran, former military police officer, and I'm currently living in Washington, D.C. I'm a consulting executive on medical leave. I'm still recovering from that shoulder surgery. But really excited to be here. I am a fur mama to my dog, Drew, who's hanging out with his furry friends and doggy daycare for a little bit and an auntie. It's Christmas, so my street cred is on the line based on the presents that I get, but that's me. I'm happy to be

here with my co-host and our guest. Before we get to our guest, I'm going to pass it to Ashley Miller, co-host, to share a little bit about herself.

Ashley Miller (00:57)
Yeah, and we made it to this episode, which we say at every episode opening, we did another one. I'm your other co-host, Ashley Miller. I am a former Army engineer officer, also a veteran, executive recruiter and advisor based here in Atlanta, Georgia with my amazing partner and my beautiful daughter and our grumpy Doxan ace whose birthday is around this time. So excited to get a little bit more into the show today.

Kafi A. Joseph (01:23)
All right. So as everybody knows, this is Warrior Women Rising. We're a podcast where we are amplifying the stories of women veterans, especially those who have navigated the other side of the transition from military to civilian. And every conversation, we reflect and connect through five core questions. Who are you? How are you? No, really, how are you? How are you rising? What lights you up? And then how can we connect, engage and grow together? So.

⁓ I am really excited because we're now on the series of episodes where we're talking about finding and living your purpose and our guest is Dionna McPhatter. I'm really excited because she's a West Point grad. think we're skewing real heavy on the grads. We'll work on that. We love the people that we know. She's an accomplished athlete. She was a point guard on the basketball team, multi-sport athlete before that. She's and then she's gonna share a little bit about her story. I don't want to get ahead of that on how

she transitioned, what her transition out of the military was like. But really, really excited these. So to kick us off, who are you?

Dionna McPhatter (02:31)
Yeah, who am I? Well, first, like I'm a human being that feels really blessed to be alive and to be talking to you two today. You know, it's so important to have gratitude. I try to live with gratitude every single day in a very ⁓ overt way, you know, as opposed to just sort of passively. ⁓ And so who am I? I I grew up in Ohio ⁓ from Southern parents, which gives you kind of an interesting kind of, I think, background. They made lots of sacrifices to raise me, my brother, my sister in an environment they

thought we would have more opportunities, which was true. think we did have more opportunities. Like you said, Kafi, ⁓ I'm an athlete, like was a three sport athlete growing up ⁓ and really chose both basketball and soccer in college, but that didn't quite work out in terms of the coaches getting along the way that I had hoped. So basketball won out at West Point, like you said, which was again, such a gift for me, even though the basketball part didn't go the way that I wanted. But still, obviously me landing at West Point and connecting with

so many amazing people and me growing so much as a person through that experience. ⁓ so, ⁓ but at West Point, had three hip surgeries while I was there. So to, you know, because you bearing the lead there. So my military service was really different because I got an honorable discharge right when we graduated. So on graduation day, when everyone else was commissioning, I was, you know, cheering them on as opposed to commissioning myself. So I thrust myself directly into this kind of outside world and it was

interesting, ⁓ connected to who I am, I'm super open. I'm very like, ⁓ I am not averse to risk at all. ⁓ So I like trying new things, which has led me through a lot of my experience. But really now, who am I? I'm all about using my powers for good, you know? So that's what I'm, I am trying to just channel everything that I have and everything that I have to give towards its greatest good. And that looks like it a lot of different things depending on what I'm up to, but yeah, that's who I am.

Kafi A. Joseph (04:31)
Okay, I love it. I love a couple of things. I love that you started with human being first. I feel like the times that we are in, it is so important that we remember that we are each human despite, you know, what we're thinking, what we're going through. We're all human people, human beings having this experience that we're living here. So thanks for that. I love the piece around gratitude. I wanted to jump in a little bit in the who in this who are you part around your transition from service. I think one of the things that we kind of talked about, you know, as we were chatting,

about coming on this episode. Typically, it looks like you serve, you get out, you do X, Y, Z, right? You're coming into the academy, you're coming in to serve, and you expect that there's going to be this service experience, and then something unexpected happens. So I would love if you were willing to share a little bit about that transition and what it looked like and felt like for you.

whatever that looks like from learning that you weren't going to commission to then having to pivot your senior year, your first year into this new space, this new reality.

Dionna McPhatter (05:33)
Yeah, I'm happy to talk about it. I mean, I think first of all, I found out for sure quite late in our senior year. So like that's it was actually scary, you know, truthfully at that time, right? Because I was fully committed. Also, like you, actually, I was an engineering officer. Like I knew what was going to happen. Right. Like I had my future kind of at least right for the next five years. Like, OK, this is what I'm going to go do, no matter how hard it might be. Like, that's what I'm going to walk into. And I was ready. I felt ready for that. ⁓ So then when a couple of months for graduation, like you're definitely not

doing that. So now you need to find something else. It's like, how do I like what am I supposed to be doing? ⁓ And particularly because I think I'm much more courageous now. I would have been great. I would have looked courageous on the outside ⁓ then. But truthfully, like, you know, like standing in the unknown. I'm much more comfortable with that now than I was then. And so what I did is I talked to anyone. I went to the Service Academy Career Conference, which I would recommend any and every single person that's getting

out of the service before they even want to get out to go to it. It's worth the investment. ⁓ You get so much exposure. It's people very focused and committed to talking to and hiring or helping people like us. Do know what I mean? and so, so it's just like, I think it's a mistake if people don't use it. It's a resource that's built for us. And there's versions that aren't just for service Academy grads, you know I mean? But go to conferences where it's like one isolated, it's overwhelming, but one isolated space, right? That, is

dedicated to helping you or finding you. ⁓ So that was actually my first foray. I had a couple conversations, like I had the benefit of being on the basketball team. So you have lots of people that are interested in you that I don't even know. There's so many people that write me messages. like, don't remember you, but thank you for remembering me, right? Because that's a gift. And so.

I had so many people reach out and say, Deanna, I'll introduce you to this company, this company, this company. Do you need help? Do you need help? Because I had a little bit of a profile, you know, beyond just being a regular cadet. So that was a blessing. But really I went to the Service Academy career conference and I just talked to everyone that wanted to talk to me. Like they checked the box and saying we're interested. And I went to all of them. ⁓ And in the end, who I found myself ⁓ the most connected to. So side note, which I don't really talk about that much, but like my

dream actually was to be a spy. That was my absolute dream. And I was kind of a perfect candidate, right? Because I was medically discharged, but I was an athlete. So it's not like I couldn't. Like, I'm still young. I was still doing everything physically. It's not like I failed any of the physical tests at West Point. That never happened. They just decided because of my, like, because of my surgeries, they were like, so I didn't fail anything. I could do everything physically. So that's who contacted me.

⁓ They contacted me, the agency contacted me. Her name was Sheila, which obviously wasn't her real name, while I was at school. And they called my cadet phone. And that was my dream, my dream of dreams. So I did all of those interviews. And then I did my in-person interview at the Service Academy Career Conference. ⁓

Ashley Miller (08:41)
I didn't even know

they went to that. This is wild.

Dionna McPhatter (08:44)
Oh, they're there. They're there.

And so... said I've there, but they're there. They've already got it figured out. And I already had like two to three conversations. And I found out that my math teacher was the recruiter at that time, you know, and I was very good at math.

Kafi A. Joseph (08:49)
They want to talk to you ⁓

Ashley Miller (09:01)
course.

Dionna McPhatter (09:02)
So like, I, I, he told, he's who told me later. So I had this whole thing and I was like, that's my dream. Oh my gosh, my dream can come true. So that was happening. And then I, when I talked to all the companies, you know, so I was between Turner Construction, cause I was like maybe something active, close to engineering. Like I was like, these are the things that like are connected to what I thought I was going to do in the army. And then Procter & Campbell. Now what's very, very interesting is there's lots of people there at the conference. Of course, the like government services.

like the FBI, the CIA, those have veterans and it could have changed now. But back in 2003, 2004, the only people that I talked to that had West Pointers at the table were P &G. The rest had veterans, maybe veterans, maybe people, but like, and think, I had not been in the military outside of West Point. So like I was a fish out of water. It's everyone in uniform because they're not out yet, right? They're in their transition. I'm there as a cadet.

And I was a, and obviously woman, black woman, super young. So it was like, everyone was like, who is this person? Why are you here? How are you here? And so P &G had a West Pointers at the table. And so I felt some level of comfort in that environment where I was like, just overwhelmed and I was repeating my story over and over again, right? Like what happened to me? I was in a bit of shame still around that.

I'm confident in myself, but do you know what mean? But like, I know all my friends are going off to war. All of my friends, right? And so, and then I'm not, and why do I, why am I the one chosen not to? So what am I supposed to do? So that was how my transition was. I went to what was actually the most familiar. And P &G, great company, but very, very structured. Extremely. And I had West Pointers. So West Pointers interviewed me and the team that I went to, I did an unconventional thing because they interviewed me, they said, we don't think conventional is going to work for you.

Which was awesome. Again, I've been so blessed my entire career with angels that are speaking to whoever I'm talking to. That's only met me once, right? But somehow they know things that I wouldn't be interested in. And they sent me to Arkansas on the Walmart customer team because it was unconventional. No one... If you were not in sales and even very few salespeople, no one started at the Walmart team. Because it's like the all-star team. Like you had to kind of be proven to work at that team. So, but that's where I got to start. And I was on a team with two West Pointers.

My team, the supply chain guy and the guy running the entire team was also a West wind. So I was really given, I say like a very soft place to land where at least I knew I could talk to people that would understand that experience. You know, they didn't have to know me, but I knew that they would understand that experience and it gave me so much comfort. So I think it really eased my transition to have that. And obviously I chose not to do CIA, even though was my dream. Cause in the end I got the

FedEx that said like okay, you're in like and you need to show up in Virginia at this location on XDate and it was like and I didn't think any of this was real at the time right now I know this is really what happens, you know, and it said like either show up or burn this level No, no, I'm dead ⁓

Ashley Miller (12:15)
I gotta keep it. Did you burn the letter? She burnt the

letter. Of course she burnt the letter.

Dionna McPhatter (12:21)
What

are you gonna do? And the reason that I was like, why? Because, and it's funny, because then I was watching like Homeland, which I hadn't ever watched, but now I'm watching because I'm bored. And Carrie Matheson, know, Claire Danes describes, and she's like, no, no, no, you're gonna, when the woman's like interviewing or deciding if she wants to like stay in the CIA, she's like, you will be a career liar. Like that's your life, your life is lies. So like, just be very comfortable with that. And that in the end, at the ripe old age of 22,

I already put my mom through West Point and then like September 11th happening and like all my friends are at war and I said now I'm gonna tell her like I'm joining like this is what I'm going to go off to do and now you'll never know if what I'm telling you is true. I couldn't come to terms like I was like that's to me it felt very selfish. I am a person of service like that's what I view my life in connected to like finding your purpose but I was like that doesn't feel fair so that's why I said no

that anyway and I ended up at PNG and then the rest is kind of history.

Kafi A. Joseph (13:24)
That was gonna be the question I asked. like, wait, why didn't you do it? And I can totally get that. That makes a lot of sense and you know hats off to the people who do it because we need them, know, everything they're doing. We don't even know the half of it. We don't even know the tenth of it, right? Tell me Ashley if you got something.

Ashley Miller (13:40)
I had

lots of questions I could ask them all day. But I do think there's this component that, I mean obviously we can explore more when we talk about like, you know, how you're doing today and what's going on. But when you talked about the comfort piece and the transition and how, I mean, I used to say this when I was a commander, like transition comes to all of us whether we're ready or not. I think I really resonated with this thought that you kind of want to be comfortable when you are a fish out of water.

and then a really kind of pivotal moment for you. And I think a lot of veterans do that initially or a lot of, I mean, people, we all want to feel comfortable with our choices. But this dichotomy to me of you choosing a thing that brings you, you know, a little bit of that, but still even at 22 is still true to yourself that enough of you shown through that they gave you a very unconventional path at PNG. And I don't know every story about the PNG brand, but it is an incredibly structured business, a large business.

It can feel similar to the military and those businesses in that. And I'm just kind of curious if like, as you got into that role and landed in Arkansas, were you like, this is perfect? Or did it feel like not the right thing? Like, you know, I just, as you kind of progressed there, I'm just curious about that particular moment because I did something similar and that's why I can resonate with it where I came to the job I'm at now because another West pointer recruited me and I knew they were a grad.

and I was like, I can trust my life with them. It's of helped me on this path. anyway, but would love to hear.

Dionna McPhatter (15:16)
It is interesting

now to think about it because it's one little side note I'll give you guys quickly because honestly now being like an entrepreneur, different things. West Pointers have been actually the least helpful. So it's very fascinating. I talked to one other West Pointer who's like my really good friend. We both have had very similar experiences. We've been trying to figure out the formula in fundraising, obviously the fundraising world. And so I don't need to name names. It's actually not that big of a community.

It's been very disheartening, me in that world. But so at the beginning of my career, it was a place of extreme help, And comfort, and colleague-wise, it's still great.

Ashley Miller (15:57)
So we gotta come back to

this, because I also want to talk about this.

Dionna McPhatter (16:00)
Yeah, it's really interesting. I don't know if I thought that much about, is it perfect or not? I just wanted to perform. so, but no Arkansas was the middle of nowhere. P &G was smart, super smart. Walmart is in Bentonville, which is built up a little bit now, but P &G wanted young people, like young and talented people. So talented people usually need something extra. Like they are okay doing nothing. Like if there's no restaurants, there's nothing. Like high performing people.

Do you know what mean? Like they want to do stuff like there there's gonna be social aspect there's gonna be and so they put their office in Fayetteville Which is where the University of Arkansas is so by default it has community It has a rallying thing behind the Razorbacks. Do you know what mean? It has its own little college town like downtown It's a college town for real for real because there's nothing else But I felt like a fish out of water being in that location But that environment like not having a normal

college experience. Like I'm a new grad. know what I Now I'm in college town and &G also brought in like purposefully. This is they did their recruiting for the Walmart team. Is they had all the top like senior people, but then they always had and usually in sales, like I was one of only people not in sales, like 25 to 40 young single people. Like it was, it's still a quota. Like that's how they want the team. And so that's so that there's that community as well. They want that mixed up.

And you're like the top performers that are getting mentored by the top performers running the largest division in the company, right? So like you have that. It's super interesting. And so I got very fortunate. I thought it was just just how they did it. But I've been back and I see like the people aren't always great. I am still very close to most of the people that were like in my class of young singles. So I can I can give you all the names of the people. you know these are my like I'm God, a godmother to one of the

one of the guys, the first guy, of course they put the two black people together. He took me to lunch on my first day and we are still unbelievably close today, right? Like 20 something years later. like, so that was very helpful, right? I got both. I got this like, ⁓ I am like young and like a normal woman. Like that's actually what I am. I'm now in that environment, but also I'm in this super high performing professional place because you need that edge, right? Like just coming, like being the type of people that we are. Any woman that decides to go in the military,

I think you need that edge. like that that it was part of it as well So I think that mix and then my boss is one of the smartest people I've ever met and he was I mean he doesn't fit anywhere and I needed that too So if you think like my mix is that and again, it was God So you gave me some less point you gave me crazy person and people would tell me tell you that my boss was a crazy Australian he picked me up in a gigantic Cadillac convertible from the airport and was like

like big grin, like, he's like, you know, like half European, Australian and half Aboriginal. He's amazing. Super curly, crazy hair and just like wild, bright eyed and was like, ha ha, you ready? You know, like, let's do this. Let's do different things. Let's change the game. You know what mean? I was so fortunate. And in hindsight, you understand that I liked it. I enjoyed it. But in hindsight, I know how unique that mix was. And then I had super

close girlfriends, I always need. I also was able to find that when I was there with one particular woman.

Kafi A. Joseph (19:37)
You

need that, I mean, and everybody's, like you said, everybody's makes this different, but you need your people that you were able to find for you who those people were.

Ashley Miller (19:46)
I was just gonna say and you know, I don't think you could have gotten that in the military

Kafi A. Joseph (19:50)
It's or miss, right?

It's hit or miss. mean, from what I'm hearing you describe, this was a well-engineered, intentional, purposeful unit of people or group of people. And there are a few places like that in the Milla's Harry, but most units that we're going to as lieutenants coming out, it's not, I don't know, maybe it's gotten different as they're doing this whole interview process to pick your branches and all other good stuff. But most units coming out, it's just, here are these people, make the best of it and do with it what you will.

you

Dionna McPhatter (20:20)
Yeah, and I

Ashley Miller (20:21)
I

I meant like more uniquely to you. I think you had this really challenging time of like wanting to go serve in and do this thing. And obviously you've done some really amazing things. And I wonder without that PNG time, how, I mean, it would still be amazing, but how, like how different would that look if you hadn't?

Dionna McPhatter (20:39)
Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it totally shaped. mean, because also helped me find what I'm good at. I still reference it obviously today, you know, it was, it's an environment where people are like achieving their high achievers, which high achievers take risks. So I was allowed to take risks. Like I was doing stuff that was not in the job description. I was pitching, like I helped redesign the pet section at Walmart, which doesn't happen anymore because the business is at a different stage. But at that time Walmart was growing at a crazy rate. I didn't know better.

I now use it as a strength, but at that time lots of people would have said, why did you say that in that meeting? Why did you tell them that? You were completely out of line. I was out of line, but that's what I thought. And someone let me, right? Like everyone allowed that to happen. Again, I think I'm blessed enough that I'm good at critical thinking. So don't think I was saying stupid things, obviously, but I still was taking a risk, you And so I got exposure in a way that, it was very unique. And now me being a person that's all about data for good and like,

How do you turn insight into something that can power something better for humans and humanity? I learned the basics of that, not that principally, but the basic conceptually I learned in that first job. But again, because my boss was so smart and it was like, find the information that will help us get to this outcome.

And I was like, okay, like, that's, that's, that seems simple, but like to connect like very disparate data and information and me find a little puzzle piece, you know, the puzzle piece is to connect the dots to how that could influence the outcome that we wanted as PNG, you know? And, like, so shaping that and like getting good at that in a high pressure environment is something I now use every, you know, in every interaction I use all the time.

Ashley Miller (22:31)
segue

I think as we think about like how are you today

Dionna McPhatter (22:34)
So

what I've done is just so you guys know is I basically took like everything I learned with Nachi, which was like my first full data and technology for Ray, which I got there as a gift and learned a lot. Tried to do stuff in the middle of COVID, which was very, very difficult. Raised money. did the whole thing and then recognize like, Oh, I want something above this. And so I launched my own with my friends, truly with like people that I love and respect and can trust.

⁓ It's a whole thing of it, but not really. like a creative and a data studio called Radical Possibilities. And it's about using data for good at the intersection of humans, people, ⁓ data, and culture. So like culture is what moves us. Culture is ⁓ what we eat, how we live, how we stay safe. Like I see the military as part of our culture, right? So like people, not everyone looks at like that, but I do. Like this is what makes us us as humans, right? And if we lose entertainment in an organic.

way. If we lose safety, if we lose health, if we lose education, well then we're not going to have anything that makes us us. We won't be able to connect. There will be no community. Anyway, so culture, people, like because it's like the humanity of it. What makes us us, right? Our emotion, our feelings, connecting to our soul, connecting to something bigger than ourselves ⁓ is the component of it. And then like data. so data gets run through lots of different technology. AI is the thing we want to talk about today. Like that's what everyone wants to

But I'm just talking about data information our brains everything that we do is all a function of the data that we process day in day out and I've recognized that I have a knack for that world and so it's that intersection so it was launching a company that could hold that and all all the activity that Selfishly I wanted to do but then I had a couple of friends that were also down. They were like, I like this container Let's play, you know, and so that's what radical possibilities is and then radical possibilities houses

what I would call my baby. So if you say we took Nachi Technology, I'm very, very passionate about the arts and culture and music in particular for lots of reasons. And so there's a music tech company that I'm building with my best friend who is a musician that we're about to go to market. We've done some pilots. That's called Supa. That's sitting in Radical. know, it gets its own entity, but like, you know, think of it from the point of view of Radical. And then I acquired a technology company

and half ago that is the Defense Department is its primary client. It's physics and science and all of this really cool stuff that helps predict the maintenance that makes sure our most critical machines don't go down. ⁓ So that felt very aligned to me. Anyway, so now it's that right. So like people pitch me companies and ideas and things they want me to be involved in at that intersection all the time. And so that's what I sit in. So NACHI is sort of going to sunset, but I love not the concept of it. It fuels me. It's named after the

like is me, like Nachi is me. Like it's human and data kind of fused together with a little bit of God signature on it. That is who I am. so anyway, so that's where I am today. Sort of in this ecosystem, working on a few, I think very important things that evolve over time. And then I do some data, like I'm a chief data officer for a company. Do you know what mean? Just because that's my friends, they ask me what

So I said sure I'll help.

Ashley Miller (26:05)
So at the beginning of this, I started doing gratitude. I mean, you're doing a lot. There's a lot of phenomenal work. Like how, how, how are you?

Dionna McPhatter (26:13)
I feel so fortunate. One, I set my own time. I control what I do. That I think is most like freedom and autonomy and that kind like is the most important value for how I'm doing what I'm doing because you can then do it with integrity. Like if you're totally beholden to something else, then you know, the incentives can be out of whack. The why you're doing something can start to get really skewed. And so that doesn't mean that that's not,

part of my path, it was. But then I learned how to channel that and use it. And what I would say is like, I get used more than I get to provide value. That's what I feel. But at least it's on my terms. So, you know, I've gone through lots of ups and downs where I like helping. So you have people take advantage of that. But I would still pick that over some security that I have with something that I don't feel aligned in.

Kafi A. Joseph (27:10)
When you say with integrity, I have recently come across, because we think of integrity as being like our honor and honor code, all those other things. But I would love you to share a little bit more when you say this is an integrity with who I am. Maybe we're starting to get into, we're going to go between how are you and how are you rising. Dive in a little bit for me on what integrity, being able to live in integrity with yourself means to you, like how, like share. Because I feel like, again, our audience primarily are women veterans. Integrity.

and that language feels like something else to us and so would love to explain that for some of us who are still trying to get there.

Dionna McPhatter (27:48)
Yeah, I mean I think for me it's it's one having clarity around what is important to me. So like that was first like what do I care about actually you like how do want to show up? What matters to me and like okay I think the first lesson in that once I define those things is it doesn't matter if those aren't valuable to other people if other people value like I am living very untraditional life, know like that it's just true and so but if other people would value my value

based on me checking these other boxes, but if those are the things that are important to me and don't have me living in alignment or shining as brightly as I can shine, well then why would I prioritize those things? Like I'm not happy, like that wouldn't make me happy. I don't see that making me happy. It's not how I envision my life. I never envisioned myself in some white dress. That doesn't mean I don't want to get married, but I'm just telling you, those weren't the things. But I did envision myself impacting thousands of people. That was part of my vision for my life. So why would I sacrifice that?

on the path of that.

You want me to sacrifice that for something I never even dreamed about because you think that's what I'm supposed to do? That does not mean that I don't want companionship. of course I value being close in this community and cared for, but it's about what do I prioritize? And it's not about me being addicted to work. I'm not. addicted to value and giving and serving others in a way that feels aligned to me. So to me, first, it's like, what matters to me? Like for real, for real. And then what environment do I need to create so I can stay in that? Okay. Well, what environment?

Who do I want to be around? What types of things am I letting in? What do I need to do in a ritual sense? How connected am I to God and my guides? Do I feel connected? Because that's the only way I'm going to feel connected to myself. Anyway, so like these are the things that for me, it's like ⁓ then I can act in a way where for me in the profession that I do is nothing should harm others. If it harms others, then I'm doing it wrong. And the point is people say, well, that's

That's just how it's done. No, it's not. You're lazy. To me, you're lazy. You stopped. You stopped short of the optimal solution. And there's a lot of things in our world that have unintentional harm. ⁓ Once I'm made aware of it, redesign it. I'm now made aware. that harms people. Again, I'm in data and technology. Okay. The way that we use it and abuse it with generative AI is harming people.

So I need to talk about that. You know what I That's why I'm data for good. How? I want to understand what impact is it going to have? How am I making that better? How am I influencing that? So like these are the things of acting in integrity, but I want to be able to make that decision. I want to be able to, I fired the U.S. military because they wanted me to do something that I felt like was not in integrity with me. I believe that the right things will come, that I'll track the right thing. So I'll fire you. But that is such a place of privilege. I see it as

true privilege to be able to make those kinds of decisions. But I just don't feel like I've been put in a place, in this place with this kind of stuff in my heart on accident. Do you know what So like living integrity is like that I can trust to that. can trust what my intuition tells me about a situation. And I'm a fixer. So sometimes it means like I do stuff that I probably trusted that too long. I should have gotten out of that faster. But I rather have tried it than have not tried it at all.

Ashley Miller (31:13)
Is that easy for you? Like has that clarity, was that with you in the beginning?

Dionna McPhatter (31:19)
No, nothing's easy. I think me trying

stuff is easy. Like I'll try, I'll try basically anything, not anything, but like if it feels like it's a solid idea, I'll try. Let's try it. I, my ego thought that I could change things that I knew were immovable. And when I say things, I actually mean people and more often than not men. So I thought like over time, this will work itself out. It'll get better. This will, this will, this will get fixed. This will be revealed.

and then we'll deal with that. That is a fundamental thing. As opposed to like, it's different than the things that aren't, I would call them soul things. These were soul things that were not aligned, that I said, it'll work itself out, or I'll help it get worked out. I have failed in that every time I said that. Every single time. No one ever surprised me. Ever. So that does not mean people can't change. But soul stuff, it takes so

long to change soul stuff so it probably will eat you up. That doesn't mean they won't change eventually but it might eat you in the process. You see what saying? You won't be able to withstand it. I've never been able to. I've always had to tap out and it was like killing me but my ego told me it would be okay like you know I could work it out. From the outside they would look amazing. These would look like great positive things that were happening.

Kafi A. Joseph (32:42)
things where you said every single time you knew that you encountered those things, were they aligned like in this piece of what matters and the environment? Like, when you look back on it now, was it actually aligned or all?

Dionna McPhatter (32:52)
They all.

I'll just be honest. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

That's more the point. So it's like that was right. It was incredible. It changed my life But the second I then knew that it was no longer like that now we've reached the limit of my growth of my impact on it And now my ego is what's telling me I can go beyond the limit. That's what saying. That's what it is.

Kafi A. Joseph (33:42)
Yes, you're hitting on something that I feel like we encounter in so many iterations the last Episode that we did it sounded like okay And when it's no longer something that you want to do it's okay to change right and so I don't know if it's just the type of people we are Choose to go to a West Point or choose to go into military or if the military does this to us or both But this desire to keep pushing through something or something

Dionna McPhatter (34:09)
It's

the combination. It's women, because we are natural caregivers. Even if we're not all caring, but on the scale of caring, we are going to lean more to caring. And then we're in service. We were in the military. So when you combine those two, and we're achievers, when you combine those things, give it up. We're going to push through a wall too many times. And then the wall will rebuild itself in front of us. be like,

Ashley Miller (34:36)
You're weird.

Let me find a tool for that.

I mean, cause you said earlier and you're like, I'm very service oriented. think that is a common thread amongst almost every woman I know that has served and not served. And I think you're right. And I'm curious, like the alignment piece of purpose and kind of the data for good component. think that mindset. And when you say you compare that ego piece to what can be accomplished and the soul eating and the, you know, the other of that equation, which isn't really in your control. There's this component of like, well, I will control it. I will help it get there. I will, you know,

push past that but I also love what you said about that because really if we think of the spectrum of alignment like maybe this is controversial but what you basically said to Kafi is it wasn't in alignment anymore and we still did it but it's because like how do you how do you give that up right like it's the you kind of talked about the ego piece but I just really resonate with that thought when you're at these crossroads in this decision point of what to do when you're in these hard situations it's easy to fall back on that experience and and that education

and that maybe ego or your ability, like your strengths, because some of those things are what make you really capable and amazing at what you do, but to fall back and say, no, I can stay here and do this a couple more years, a couple more days, a couple more hours, even though would I be doing more somewhere else, but I just.

Dionna McPhatter (36:02)
And again, and again, I think women do it more. We do all. And we're the ones, we don't get credit. So it's not like it's not like, so that is all, it's all wrapped up in it. I think it's a real thing.

Ashley Miller (36:06)
We're like

Kafi A. Joseph (36:15)
It

is really real and so anyone who's listening right now tuning in whenever because you're gonna get this when you need it like this is that sign of if you know You know like keep it moving position yourself. Let's find the next thing right like it's okay If it's no longer a line it might have been a line and now that you know that it's not like Okay, move on because you're just keeping yourself from the next thing that's gonna be an even more alignment and bring you closer So in how are you rising? We're here. I feel like we've been dancing between like how are you? How are you rising? I feel like you

just put some profound, like you laid a bar, what do the kids say, a bar? You know, you put that out there, what?

Like have you seen or come across you have this premise still rising right like this idea around warrior women rising the reason why we say rising and not rise or risen is that it's this Continual it's something that's that's in its continual right it doesn't just stop it doesn't just end and so You know in your how are you rising would love to just hear? How you're feeling about where you are you know and dare I say like what that looks like you know what you're looking at or looking toward as you continue in your rise

same.

Dionna McPhatter (37:22)
Yeah,

again, I feel really blessed, you know, and thankful and, you know, it's really interesting being a, again, I'm a data and technology person ⁓ and that's like anything everyone talks about, but I don't really feel like I've done what my own thoughts and ideas justice yet. You know, so like it's really interesting to be like in it in this way and to have, ⁓ I mean, in 2013,

is when I was like talking to investors and like raising money around things that people are acting as if, which I'm not saying they aren't, are like revolutionary today. Do you know what But like these are conversations that I was having where you have people say things like, which I'm sure I know I've said in other things, like, but why you, Deanna? Like this is the type of thing, you know, Steve Jobs would do. So why you? And I was, it was, it's the most insult, some of the most insulting things. And these people thought it was saying positives to me. Like they thought that was positive. And so it's really interesting.

to now be in a time where a lot of the things that I talked about and I thought very early are like what is what everyone's just kind of saying is now possible. And so that's really interesting feeling that you can get caught up in the like, well, am I supposed to be doing more or do you know what mean? I do think about that quite a bit, but I feel like I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. Again, I just think it's more impact, more, more, more. Like how can I affect more people? How can I ⁓

I love teams, you know what mean? I love the journey of like managing people and helping people come out of their shell. Like that's, that's like a separate thing that I just love doing. And so I don't have a big team right now. Like I would say my team environment is kind of small. So I'm looking forward to that continuing to grow. Do you feel what mean? Like to me it's more, it's just more. Cause every little seed that you plant just has such an impact, you know? I think in the wake of sort of we're at this giant crossroads as you

show me the area that doesn't need to be shaken up, show it to me. I haven't seen it, you know, so like there is no kind of industry or human part of our human existence right now. We living in time where all of it is under review. Right? Like all of it's getting shaken up, like health, how we thought about that community, how we think about that relationship, how we think about that spirituality, money, the financial systems that like we bank on.

Yeah. Right? Like everything, how people live, all of it. And so I just feel like, well, it's a great time to one, be, I've already found that I'm supposed to be building things. Like that I'm supposed to have a very strong input into how they come to life as opposed to I'm just serving someone else's vision. Like that is, I already know that is part of me. So to then be building in this time when everything is under question, do you know what mean? Everything is shaken up so it can be overwhelming.

because you can like, well, I could apply it. This is kind of what Nachi's journey was. ⁓ let's apply it to health. Let's apply it to music. Let's apply it to consumer packaged goods. Let's apply it to new startups. Let's apply it to biotech. Let's apply it. Like that is the I can get in that. That is one of my edges. Yeah. Doing it doing too much, but then you do too little.

Kafi A. Joseph (40:43)
Yeah, it's like that principle of like energy. It's like you can put it all of these places the same amount of energy or you can pick one and

Dionna McPhatter (40:51)
Yeah.

And

so now it's focused. Yeah. And so now it's focused. Like it's very, very focused. And so I'm excited for that to continue to evolve, right? And for it to become more more public. Cause I want it to just impact more people. You know, I want people to see what's possible. That's how I see myself. It's like the second that you can't hold onto it. Like I couldn't just go back here and make lots of money because no, you gotta show people what's possible. Like this is what's possible. You could do all of this, you know, try it, whatever your all of this

is trying.

Kafi A. Joseph (41:23)
Try it. I'm smiling ⁓ because in the lead up to this we were talking about our favorite quotes and mine is one's mind once exposed to a new idea or concept it can't regain its original dimensions. were like, are the things like now you know what's possible let's get after it. I was also smiling earlier when you were saying I was saying back then when Ashley and I were prepping for this we were just kind of saying like Deanna is like one of the OGs like in the space. are we talking about right lately?

Ashley Miller (41:51)
She's

like an og data dog. You really were there at the nexus. So I I honestly am curious too when when you say Your ideas are now just kind of getting out there I was just curious like what what does that look like like to you? not to overly narrow the the pipeline of like what's next, but you're an og and you're Constantly redefining how this looks and you talked a little of the nachi evolution and i'm curious like what's what's on deck to you in terms of

of how that comes to life a little bit more.

Dionna McPhatter (42:23)
Yeah, I mean, so like the music one's the one that I could talk about.

Ashley Miller (42:27)
Ooh,

I can hear that all.

Dionna McPhatter (42:28)
It's completely broken. So you have an industry that actually was built to exploit. from the get go. From the get go, it's never taken care of the people that matter in it. Like the actual artist. It's never taken care. And so now if I want to get very kind of factual, right? Like any industry, there's supply and demand. And like in music, both are screwed. The supply, the artists themselves. And I'm talking about not just someone that's sitting and I'm not knocking it.

Ashley Miller (42:41)
.

Dionna McPhatter (42:58)
But like you can have a great voice, but like you're not the fuel. There's lots of people with a great voice. I'm songwriters, the people that create it, right? Like create things that literally change our lives, save us. They save people. It is a purely creative endeavor that has gotten people to not jump off a bridge, right? Because of a song. So it's like, it's magic. It's unbelievably powerful. And we have abused, we, I'm saying us as society have

Yeah, we have abuse these people they are sad they make no money yet it saves us so to me I was always like that doesn't make any sense and I have lots of closeness to it personally right so I'm like that doesn't make any sense and then as a fan I'm a fan has my Musical journey do I feel like it's getting better or worse? Worse and it's not just because of age that is not it. I it's not about the music quality That's a very different conversation. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how I listen to music

How do I consume it? How do I go to concerts? When I go to concerts, how do I feel? Do I get merch? Like, I'm talking about the business of it. As a fan, is it any good? No, it's horrible. I'm fighting with bots, it costs too much money, but the artists are unhappy? Who's getting the money? I hate middlemen, I hate them. You can look at any of the businesses I've done, any insight work I've done, it's always like, where's the waste, cut it out, right? So it's the same. So I am very excited to be

engineering with my best friend in the world who I think is a magic maker not think I don't actually think it's facts right so when I met her my dream as a little kid was to have a rock star best friend it was my dream and like you know found my way to her through a mutual friend's wedding yeah mutual friend's wedding where they told us we were gonna be best friends and you're like just leave us alone like we're just here to wedding it's amazing destination wedding at Morocco but like like just

have fun like chill out you know don't put so much pressure but they put us in the same room and they were right fast forward they were right right so the point is so and this is someone that i believe has a a god spirit given gift it's obvious to me i've seen it i've watched it since i were a little tiny kid and so i've seen in their little fan club people have her name tattooed on them that's life-saving you know like that that's not like you're not just a good talent you can do if you think like

You actually changed people's lives. I've actually had to email lyrics to fans. They her lyrics tattooed on them, right? So like that's the caliber. So you have that as a best friend. So it's like, okay. And to feel the pain and hear the pain and know that I can use data and technology to help.

help solve that. And we genuinely feel like we have the makings to rebuild the entire industry. That's what I'm excited about. I'm excited about how much life force can I channel to that. It doesn't mean through our company, it means to that endeavor. Do you know what I mean? The ecosystem around it, the people that are involved in it. That.

And if you don't do it through the artists, then what are you doing? And every app, every technology that's come out in this particular industry, I could go on and on about other industries as well, literally abuses them, uses them to be big. Instagram, TikTok. TikTok was called Musically. That's right. Musically. So you let them grow your platform. You become a billionaire. They make no money. And you don't let them reach their audience. You squashed it. You change everything as soon as they build your platform because you want to make money. So that

to me is a crime, it's an actual crime.

And so to be a part of something that is trying to rebuild that and that fact that we're starting there, the most engaged with celebrities on earth who actually reflect our human truth, they reflect our human condition. Politically what's happening, like that's what artists do, musicians, poets too, they're the same, right? Like, but they just don't turn it into music. But I'm saying that craft to me, it's so important for our own humanity, for connection, for us to feel. anyway, so I am extremely excited about that becoming a wife.

available thing ⁓ as hopefully that happens in 2026 and like that is I'm so passionate about it. Other stuff I'm passionate about it because again I feel like I'm serving something that got brought to me not on accident but that is like a it's my it's my heart and soul you know as not being an artist as a person that is I think on start to serve that kind of talent.

Kafi A. Joseph (47:41)
And I'm like how come what what am I? I'm signing me up. I hear I feel you. I hear you 100 % I mean that idea of music saved my life or this song or or searching every single iteration of whatever that had music I was making a soundtrack for my life I was trying to find the songs or the words or the feeling that invoked what I was going through at that point I literally have like 75 maybe more like playlists that like talk through where I was and right wrong or indifferent like You know, we've talked about Suna like I'll make us make

I'm not an artist or a musician, but I'll write words and lyrics and make something that talks to me because I can't find it or I'm looking for it. But whatever it is like that, I need that in that moment. They've turned into my mantras. They've turned into my motivation or my pacifier. If you're from the islands to bank of music, when you're feeling sad for yourself, there's a whole playlist of those. And you're right. The individuals that bring that to us.

Dionna McPhatter (48:37)
We don't take care of them. Everyone thinks like fame. Like fame ain't all that. Just because they have money. Like those people are sad, most of them. If you ever meet them in person, you feel that their soul is sad.

Kafi A. Joseph (48:49)
There's a line in the, I won't name the documentary, but if you saw it recently, it said, no, no, he's promising you fame, not fortune. And he just said it, is unnecessary, it's cracked up, cracked up to me.

Dionna McPhatter (49:00)
Yeah, I feel

very, again, very fortunate that I've been like trying to be a part of it or influence it in some sort of positive way for very long time. Like the first startup, music was one of our like verticals, but like to now be building in a very specific way with a team with like incredible humans doing it I'm doing it alongside, you know, is like, again, I can't understate how important I think it is. but it's difficult. You know, it doesn't mean it's easy.

I'm very passionate about it. Yeah, it's very difficult, but all the things worth doing have some level of friction and pain to them.

Ashley Miller (49:38)
I do feel like you kind of brought together a lot of the things earlier on that we talked about kind of starting with who are you and how are you, these concepts of community and the right people that are feeding you and like developing you and also like personally figuring out and creating this clarity of what it is that matters to you and drives you. And you've mentioned like, I'm good. I feel great about where I am today. And I, you know, I think it's

It is that trajectory discussion of how all of those pieces come together and you're now working on a couple of passion projects that are all of that together. Your best friend in this industry that has always spoken to you and that you did a little work with and now you're doing a little more work with and the right group that you're working with to bring that to life, just how all of those pieces are so important. And we've talked about that in some way a little bit in all of our shows so far about how all of those pieces are so important to figure out and become.

comfortable with where you are, wherever that is. Like easy, hard, fully feeling aligned, not all the way aligned, figuring out what that looks like, transitioned, still looking at what a transition looks like, because it does come from all of us, and I just really appreciate that perspective.

Dionna McPhatter (50:42)
and

Kafi A. Joseph (50:56)
I I'm not gonna say it, I feel like I called, was like, she's gonna be perfect. And like, we have had to do a few transitions. You've just been, you know, guiding us through the conversation naturally, right? Like your experiences have taken us there. And so as we get to the nearing the end of this conversation, we'll just, you know, put it on pause for now. can pick up another time, but how can we, right? Is kind of where we're at. This idea of like,

You just shared an incredible passion project, that you're bringing to life. So how can people, whether it's follow, engage, connect, learn more, whatever it is, how can we, what is it that we can do, whether it's we, us on this call, anyone that's listening, how can we connect in?

Dionna McPhatter (51:40)
I mean again

one it's like it's a personal thing of like stay connected to yourself and your own truth like that helps me to do I mean that to me I think then if people hear something or involved in something that I'm connected to then it's gonna resonate more when people aren't aligned you don't I mean I'm just being real like it's like then it's harder to connect with it or you doubt things more so I think first it's like that little own exercise for ourselves but then it's like you know the normal channels like LinkedIn I mean Kafi you know this even people that I care about like I'm I am too

It doesn't make sense, but I do read everything. You know what mean? Like I'm one of those people I will eventually read it and so LinkedIn is probably like a great place But also like my Instagram, you know, it's just my name which is not I have not posted in a long time But when I have something to post I post do you know what When I have something to say I I do say it I like to write I like to talk about you know, like again share my point of view when I'm called to do that and so I think as More of the things again start to become less in the lab and more out in the living lab, you know

for all of us to experience, like that's the two places that at least I communicate from. And then those might take you into other places, but that's usually the starting point for me.

Kafi A. Joseph (52:49)
Do you have any parting thoughts or anything that you want to leave anyone with?

Dionna McPhatter (52:54)
No, I I love what you guys are about and what you're doing and also like Caring about how someone actually is I think it's so important So I think that's a beautiful thing about this this ⁓ Podcast that you got you guys have built. No, I mean I think again it's like seeing each other is so important ⁓ It doesn't mean I have to understand everything that is happening or your choices you're making by seeing each other I think is what I would say is so important changes everything, you know, and I actually see you

and can understand, can see that you might be in a different place than me, which gives me pause, right, of passing judgment on whatever that is. So anyway, I think that's it, but I just thank you both for creating a platform like this and staying committed to it. And it's a really important part of my experience, obviously, like just other women veterans have shaped who I am today and continue to, so I just appreciate it.

Ashley Miller (53:49)
I'm gonna end how Dee began with gratitude.

Kafi A. Joseph (53:53)
I'm like

Not even trying to pile on, literally, that's where I was going to go with closing out was I loved how you opened this up and reminded us that we're human beings and to start with gratitude and to verbalize it, right? Like to say it, to take it outside of, know, that's creating energy by saying it and stating it. And so that's how I'd love to close this is with extreme gratitude as we close out the session, as we get close to closing out the year.

just to be really really really thankful for you being on with us sharing your experiences. Ashley to you for bringing me on this journey with you and then just us being able to share with anyone who's hearing this at this time. Just we're grateful. So thank you so much.