Craig Newby: Losing Teaches What Winning Hides

What do you do when the scoreboard won’t budge? We sit down with Cambridge head coach Craig Newby for an unfiltered look at leadership, culture, and performance in the middle of a 14-game winless run—and why this stretch might be the most rewarding of his career. Craig breaks down the simple, sturdy framework that keeps his team aligned: “Fit, Tight, Fight” as non-negotiable standards, and three big rocks—set piece, transition, and collisions—that shape every meeting, practice plan, and review. Instead of chasing every problem, he shows how focusing on controllable performance goals, GPS-informed training, and clear weekly rhythms builds confidence and intensity that survive results.

We talk about accountability without blame, and why silent pointing poisons a locker room. Craig shares how leader behavior sets the room’s temperature, why “no-rugby Sundays” protect mindset, and how rare, deliberate emotion lands better than constant fire. He explains how stacking “next job” layers into drills hardwires recovery after mistakes, and how a young leadership group can carry aligned messages onto the field without overtalking. The conversation moves from tactics to humanity—celebrating academy debuts and milestones, growing community support, and finding resilience when sport doesn’t give what you deserve.

At the heart of it all is authenticity. Craig owns a direct, transparent style that some might challenge, but it’s the anchor for trust and buy-in when losses mount. If you want a practical playbook for culture, leadership, and measurable improvement under pressure, this is it—clear, specific, and battle-tested. If this conversation gave you something useful, follow the show, share it with a coach who needs a lift, and leave a quick review to help others find it. What’s your one non-negotiable standard this season?

For all your sports equipment and some of the most innovative rugby products going around, head to silverfernsports.com.

If you want to chat directly or explore options for your school or club, flick an email to ben@coachingculture.com.au
.

Great gear. Built for coaches.

How to be a great coach Book Vol 2 is out on Amazon now

Transcript

Setting The Scene: Tough Season, Big Lessons

SPEAKER_01 1:06

This season so far has been uh has been the toughest in a lot of ways, but also the most rewarding. We don't ever point fingers at each other and we don't moan, make it a non-acceptable behaviour. It is hard sometimes because you just you know rugby doesn't give you what you deserve. It's not that's not how it works. Alignment's really important and buy-in's huge hugely important because you get one rotten banana, it ruins a bunch. I share a lot with players um that that a lot of people think I probably shouldn't share. So I I remind myself on that and that I'm you know I'm doing my best to me. Being a great dad is way more important than this in you know in 10 years' time.

Why Share Losses: Purpose And Openness

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Welcome to Coaching Culture, the podcast about cultivating culture and leadership. I'm Ben Herring. I've been loving this side of the game for bloody ages. Today's guest is Craig Newby. Craig played his rugby in New Zealand for the Highlanders and the Blues and had the rare distinction of representing the All Blacks in both 15s and 7s. He then went on to play 84 games for the Leicester Tigers in UK and began his coaching career in the UK 14 years ago. Since then, he has coached a huge variety of teams from Japan to Ulster in Ireland. Today he is head coach of the Cambridge Rugby Club and joins us today mid-season where results are not where you want them as a coach. 15 games, 14 losses, and one draw. Now, not many people, let alone coaches, are as open and transparent as Craig around sharing the insights and lessons he's taken in real time around losing for the benefit of coaches everywhere. Craig Newby, welcome to the Coaching Culture Podcast. Thanks, Jomo.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Um yeah, it's uh 14 years' journey. It's funny how you hear back some of your past life and you almost forget about uh like your your playing career, but uh and you're so fixated on your coaching stuff now and so passionate about that space. Um spent 14 years and and it's been a journey, and and this one's this this season so far has been uh has been the toughest in a lot of ways, but also the most rewarding in in so many ways, which sounds strange. People will be listening going, how do you get reward out of losing? Um but hopefully we get into that as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah. Well, isn't it funny that um we just reflect on 14 years as a coach and it still feels like you're learning after 14 years, right? There's still stuff you're picking up along the way, right? You're just like, wow, what is this?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

I think it's evolution of yourself, isn't it? And and that's doesn't matter if it's in sport or in just in life, you're you're always moving forward and um and coaching's the same. The game moves on really quickly, you know, trends and different things on my passions defense, and you know, the attacks move on and physicality moves on, and the diff just everything moves. So if you don't move, you you get left behind.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, mate, absolutely. And so you're joining us today, mate. What's how how how a lot of coaches would really struggle to come midway through a season after you know 14 losses on the bounce, which is very unusual for you and your teams. What what makes you so comfortable, mate, to give back this sort of learning? I think we were talking off here about, you know, just you don't hear from the you often hear the success stories in coaching about those that win World Cups and things. You don't always hear, you know, the the opposite side. So is that part of the motivation for freeing up the chat today?

Defining Culture: Who We Are

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, I think so. I'd like you I listen to a read a lot of books and listen to podcasts and and and people in the world that are role models is often around success and and how they you know won the World Cup or what they do in a in a success successful season, and and um we're obviously going through something, so this is probably as much as um just talking about what I've been trying to do and and and maybe hopefully you can challenge me and ask some questions that that I might not have thought of, and um but at the at the same time I I'm pretty open with it because you know it's been tough and at times, but your podcast is predominantly around coaching uh culture and culture, and and that's something I'm you know like I'm pretty passionate about in the environments and the teams I've played for or coached with the ones that are you know enjoying themselves and working harder are the best ones. And and this is you know, winning is is a weird way of making you feel good about what you're doing, but we're actually trying to you know use other metrics and other parameters to to define success. Um and it's severely challenging our environment and and our values and our people and and our connection to each other. So um, you know, it's pretty easy to when you're winning, you just paper over some things, but we are looking under every rug for answers um without throwing away the the process and the good things we're doing. You know, we you can't just change everything every week, but we're looking for small things and small small areas of growth.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Oh mate, there's so much gold dugats in here, which I want to get to through the show. Things like using other metrics to define success and looking under every rug for the smallest thing that could be the case. But before we get to those, I think we'll just open up with with how we do on the show is is how do you define culture, firstly?

Standards Built On Fit, Tight, Fight

SPEAKER_01 6:30

It's who we are. So it's what someone, if they came in and looked, what what are what does that team look like? Um and that's on and off the field, you know, who we are. Um and that can come from a question of um who we want to be or where you we're from, or where from Cambridge and you might be from Japan or you might be from somewhere. So culture to me is is who we are. Um it's who your group is um and then who we want to be. So that's kind of how I wanted to narrow it down.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

And and how do you do it does it does the definition change when you're in the middle of a losing streak?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Uh no, I I don't think so. Uh I think you set out what you want to be and and and how you want to get to that. And and we've, you know, we went on, we did a three-day camp, army camp down in um and and camped at a rugby club, and the boys, you know, spent some really good time together and came up with a few things around not negotiables and standards. Um that doesn't matter if you win on Saturday or not, those things are, you know, they're they're part of what you try and do. And um I I don't think we've changed a lot of a lot of that. Um we actually probably lean on it more than anything. Um, you know, when things go tough, it's not throw it all that out because that's that's the stuff that you're gonna remember and that's who you're gonna remember um and how you responded to things at the end of the day. Um so yeah, we don't change a lot.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

What sort of stuff are those standards, Craig? Like you talked about standards that are non-negotiable. What sort of examples do we have? Have you ch have you chucked in uh around when you went on that that camp, that sort of three-day camp? What sort of stuff got did you put into there?

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Uh we we kind of come up with uh because we're sort of theming this year around building a campaign around around war, respectful to all the the people who are in the military around the world. Um we've got three or four military guys in our in our group that are kind of my advisors and making sure that we're respectful with everything we do. But we looked at building a campaign and and what things go into a campaign, and we narrowed it down to to some real big rocks of of um fit, tight, and fight. Um and then our values sort of come off those things. So excuse me. So our fitness was our it was about a mental strength um around our body, uh body fitness, you know, we've got to run and you've got to be strong to play rugby. Um and and we've also medically, we know we can't be injured, so we we looked at fit as one of our big metrics. Um and then that means you've got to go and work, you've got to do the work before work. Um our guys all have jobs, so they've got to get to the gym before before their job and then come to rugby in the evening. And and so that some of those things were, you know, encompassed into there was no we didn't have rules around fit. It was just this is what you need to do, and um and the guys wanted to sort of you know commit to those things. Uh tight for us, um, again, this is not these there's no rules in any of this stuff, but we wanted to off the field be be really close and enjoy our rugby. Um, whether that's um sharing a beer, whether it's sharing a birthday. We've had a a couple of guys have had children this year, so we've celebrated those. We've we've had a guy, you know, he's pretty close to getting his 200th game for the club, so we'll really celebrate that one. So that's the tight. And then that also around our detail on what we're trying to achieve on the field. Um, so being real clear, we we sort of talk about clarity equals confidence and confidence equals intensity. So that tight one is around our like what we're trying to do, making sure that we know what we're doing, and and and all these things come with standards, Jamma. If like, you know, like we spend time working out a an attack strategy and and guys don't go and watch the film or don't connect to it or don't do the homework or or don't apply themselves to training, then it falls apart. So um I guess from from our environment it's it's standards not rules, um, and expectations not not not rules. Um and then fight that's sort of a not negotiable around effort um and care um for your for for what we're trying to do. So um that's a bit of a long-winded one around what it looks like.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Oh fit, fight, tight, it's nice. And I really like that sort of phrase clarity equals confidence equals intensity, and you build them up. It's nice. Which ones are these, you know, and and you've you've gone through a pretty tough first half of the season, 14 losses on the bounce. Any of these ones been tested? Any of the ones you've had to sort of you know pull up the anchor on and say we need to re-look at these ones? Is was the fitness up to scratch, was the tightness where you wanted it to be?

Performance Goals And Smarter Training

SPEAKER_01 11:12

I think um yeah, mate, there's been times where um like Mondays, that's that's when we really see um from the from Saturday to to Monday. So we kind of talk about a no rugby no rugby Sunday. So I try and encourage no rugby from from people on the Sunday and just go and spend your time with your family and and your friends and recover and stuff. And and then Monday we we sort of get back into it. Um we've been tested in all of these, like our our our detail, you know, from our defence systems to our line out um winning ability to our attack, you know, all those things are being tested a lot all the time in terms of how good they are or how good we can execute them. That that's um that's every every week really. But what we we try and do is is make sure we set performance goals um uh around a rugby so that we, you know, we can control how good we get in a scrum or how good we get in our set piece or or our kick chase, we can control that. So we set really, really careful and and deliberate performance goals so that we guys are still achieving as we go along, even in losses we're achieving. Um and if something flags up that we aren't achieving in, then we can address it. So um that that's probably there's a metric on on a few things. Uh we've been challenged. Our fitness has been one of the things we've been really proud of. Um we upskilled the club with GPS um and a new gym that they they didn't have. So we could we want guys to be stronger and fitter. Well, what does that look like? So we can now measure that and we we can be deliberate with our training sessions and we can be smarter and and use a balance between you know between it's an art, rugby's an art, but there's also a science there. So we now got some measures and we can say, well, we are fitter than we've ever been. And um, you know, we can draw confidence from being fit and we can, you know, like we can fight because we're fit. If you're not fit, you can't do you can't do anything, can you? So um mate, we've been challenged so many, so many times. Injuries, depth, um, which challenges all of these things. Um we didn't have our starting tight head for two games, and uh, you know, like your ability to fight in a scrum goes when your best prop best props out, you know, like this is crazy, mate. We get challenged all the time, and it it we have to be creative and find find ways to be better, and um and and the problem a problem we're having is you fix one thing and then something else comes up. You know, you plug one gap or you cement over one gap or you bloody make that awesome and then something else comes up that's as important, but you didn't know it was important until you're not very good at it.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Um Do you do you feel like you are plugging holes in a lot of ways? Like a it's a sort of is it a sinking ship and you just feel like you're just plugging holes to get through the season? Is that what it feels like? Uh no, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Um we sat down and said what what's important in a game of rugby. So um over a few beers with some of the leaders in the offseason and things, we we sort of got together and the coaching staff, and what are the most important things in rugby? Um so we came up with some real clear, you know, what we think are the most important things, and we focused most of our our week on those. We've got three things. Um we've we spend most of our time on those three three things. Uh, and then there'll be a little bit of extra, you know, the little bit of gold dust that we might have to touch up on that we we do, but um so we yeah, we have a pretty clear plan plan each week, and um it it doesn't change because otherwise you just you you probably never get growth in anything if we just keep changing what we're going after. You know, so that that's been probably quite good for me as it as the head coach is I'm not like constantly scratching around going, oh, what are we gonna get better at now? Whoa, geez. It's like, well, actually, no, that thing is is a one-off. Um, yep, we're gonna touch on it or we might address it a wee bit, but we're gonna keep going at our big things.

Focusing On Three Big Rocks

SPEAKER_00 16:00

What are some of those big things, Craig? Because I think it's awesome that you sat down like really consciously at the start of the season with your leaders and your senior players and important club people, and you actually put down what was the most important thing at the start of the year, and and you keep coming back to those important things. What what what are some of the examples of those important things for you specifically?

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Well, we we we kind of in a in a two or three year plan, Jamy, and yeah, one was what can we control? And we had to change a lot of things around like players went in, came in and went, um, staff changed. Um But rugby's consistent, you know, it's uh it's a it's evolving, but it's it's rugby's rugby. So we we set down that set piece is really important for us. Um both sides of the ball. Um so that's a massive focus for us. You look at how many tries are scored from set piece and how many tries are conceded from set piece, it's it's massive. So that was that was a big not negotiable. So a scrum line out, our attack off off set piece and our defence off set piece. Um the second one we we looked at was transition, so kicking game and turnovers. Um again, both sides of the ball, kept it relatively simple. Uh, and then we can start building, you know, you can start building principles off off those things and make them really really simple and achievable. Um and then the last one was just collisions. It's a collision-based sport, so we wanted to be better at tackling and carrying and catching high balls and and and those and competing for the ball. So we looked at those as our three things set piece, transition and collisions.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

And you stick to those as your bedrocks for for the team? Like you just say that these will be the foundations of our game we agreed upon at the start, and it's got a two, three-year plan around that. And so that's what you stick to uh coaching wise. You say these these are the bedrocks of our trainings, of our weeks, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, we do. And then when we we when we plan our weeks, it's we we're in a a pretty, you know, the machine starts rolling after a few few months and we're in a in a good process. Our weeks, well, you know, it's it's marches on pretty good. We we try and adapt and change it a wee bit just to to change focus. But no, that for the majority, those are our big points. And like I said, there'll be there'll be things that come up in a weekend where where something, you know, wasn't a a huge focus, but it, you know, it might be you know, might be something around uh I don't know um like our scrum attack where we may have only spent a little bit of time on that because you know most of the most of the focus went on the line out or something, you know, and then we might touch on something or or our box kicking, for example, might be, you know, that might be specifically poor, so we might touch on it, but um all of that's in around our transition and and our principles around our transition.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Yeah. How how hard is it to not fall into the trap of fixing everything? Like uh specifically when you said no rugby Sundays, is is the temptation to do more to like flood the team full of clips and make them think rugby, why do you resist doing that in in a season which has which has been tough or any season for that matter?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Um, I guess we're probably getting to know the players and and what they go through outside of our our environment. So they're all you know, like we've got fathers and we've got guys who are working 40 hours a week, we've got uh teachers and you know, stresses, and we've you know, like we've got a a real wide range of blokes, so understanding understanding their restrictions as well, and you're actually not going to get much out of someone if if they haven't got time to do it. So you you know might as well try and be creative and find out how you can get time, you know, when you can get time. And we we said pretty we we meet at 6.30 and that's that's relatively not negotiable. We've got um we've got a growing leadership group, uh, we've got a lot of young guys who haven't played a lot of footy, so we're growing a lot of that um through conversations, but we we maximise when we are with the club, so we ex you know we expect guys to just turn up on time and and when you turn up, you've done a little bit of homework, whether it's a WhatsApp clip or you've done a little bit of conversation with someone, but we maximise our time we have with them and I think we probably get the most out of them when they're there, and then they can just go and and switch off a wee bit um when that when they're away from us.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

All in or when you're in, you're in. That kind of you're not half in by the way.

Sunday Switch-Off And Leader Energy

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah, I remember L Laurie Maines told me a thing once around hats on, hats off. I don't know where it came from, might have been from a coal mine or something. Put your hat on and you're you're at work and you do your job, and then when you take your hat off, you can be whoever you want. And you know, so we sort of I I live I live by that a little bit, you know. It's um it can't all be work, it's gotta be some fun and and you've got to be yourself as well. So hats on, hats off.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Well, other well, he's probably a good man to quote a whole lot of things, Laurie Maines, ex all black coach. Um you certainly live by that, don't you, mate? Like that hats on. And it was it was pretty good for your playing career, right? Like you really embraced that that mentality as you go hard when you're in and then you enjoy all the other stuff when you're off, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Yeah, I did I did, yeah. Um I probably interesting, eh? Like if I had better, I don't know, like if you could go back, would I do things differently? I probably would. I I probably wouldn't have gone so hard on the when my hat was off. I probably leant on that a bit too much and uh at times um might have maximized my rugby a little bit more if I hadn't have, but um, but then I wouldn't have had as much fun and and all the memories. But um I think it's important like in a in our environment when you're not when you're not winning, it has to be more it has to be more than winning. We can't define ourselves and we can't define ours ourselves as men uh and and and women in our club on success. So uh it has to be around how much enjoyment we have or um what do we celebrate, what are we trying to achieve outside of winning. Um and and by all means this doesn't this isn't a uh like this isn't supersede winning. Like winning is why we are together, this is why we're playing. It's just it can't all be about that. Otherwise you just you you're just gonna feel well you're never gonna feel good about yourself, are you, if you're if it's just about winning.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Um so how do you define it, Craig? How do you define success specifically for the group you're in at the moment? And and specifically for this run of losses you're on. Like, how do you like when you're not winning, what is your definition of success for your team at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Yeah, it's that's probably something that changes. At the start of the year, it was how many academy lads can we bring through? Like our academy's young. Um, how many guys can we get through into the senior program and and can they play? Um we anticipated, we knew we had some guys come up with some milestones, 100 games, 150 games, 200 games. So we're like, right, when those happen, we're really gonna we're gonna throw the kitchen sink at celebrating those. And um we've got some good, we've got some good mixes of cultures. We wanted to to make sure that they were welcomed. We've got uh a couple of Kiwis, Tongan, Fiji, and it's uh South African, you know, we've got a mixture of cultures, so we wanted to make sure that that that was a success. Um we wanted to grow our our community outreach and our and our supporter base. Um and that comes from style of games and being competitive. Um the club had been, you know, like this is not a brand new thing for the club over the last three years. They've you know struggled for results in the championship since got they got promoted. So we're not to try and be more competitive. And if we get more people through the gate, then that's a measure of success. You know, that's I I don't know the exact figures, but that's a work in progress as well for that one. So we probably haven't quite succeeded in bringing more people in, but we have certainly been more competitive. Um and then like along the way is is how many guys you know like have we got guys signing contracts in bigger and better clubs? Um are we getting guys that are re-signing because they they love the environment and they want to they've got a job here and they they bought in um how many guys are uh are asking for jobs in the community and through our sponsors and so there's loads of ways of like all these positive interactions with our club and and people as you know their lives are are shaping then that's success for us. Um you know, like our captain's been at the club for 149 games, um it's 150th this week, and he's he he's an Australian guy from North Queensland, and he's been here for a long time and he'll probably live here forever, you know. So like that's pretty cool for a club to keep a guy come over from Aussie to play and he's stuck around. So there's some success in all that stuff. Um you know, like even our coaches are aspirational. I'm aspirational, so at some point, you know, like is what what I'm learning this year and what I'm going through gonna help me be a better coach and and get into a better bigger and better things in in my career, then yeah. And same for my, you know, Will my Ford's coach or or Smithy my back's coach and attack coach, you know, like uh are we gonna are we gonna produce better players, better coaches, and and you know, that's something to be proud of at some point. Um ultimately winning, that's that's gonna define some some amount of success, Jammo. And we're we're you know, we're failing in that if you look at that as a parameter. Um but if we just look at that, then it's we get pretty sad, you know. You've you're gonna feel pretty sad.

Accountability Without Finger Pointing

SPEAKER_00 25:57

I think it's important, Noobs, to always remember that like there's always two definitions of success for coaches. There's always the public definition of success, which is what you're talking about, the winning. And we and all coaches know that. That's what everyone sees publicly. But privately, you've got to hold yourself to some different measures, right? Like what you're talking about there, the amount of pe academy players you bring through, the amount of pathway opportunities for players to sign higher levels, and the amount of community outreach, these are sort of some private things which can actually keep you a bit more steady as a coach, right? So if you're mate, you would be sinking to a pretty low place if your sole outcome of success was winning, because 14 losses on the trot, like you if you define yourself based on that, it would be it would be a hard, hard personal thing to go through, right? But to have these other private sort of definitions of success or semi-private, I think is really important, mate, just to just to keep your your soul soul strong going through such seasons as you're having. But one of the one of the things, mate, I think it's important to ask, you said you've you've learned a lot as a coach and you're an aspiring coach still after 14 years, you're still pushing. What are you learning? What are you learning from a season of, you know, which it hasn't gone to plan? What's what sort of stuff is popping out for you that you're taking away, which all coaches can take away from the situation you're in?

Next-Job Mentality And Training Design

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Um I think I've learned that like having those things that are that we set out that are that are goals for us, particularly around our rugby, but also around our our cultural goals, around our you know, fitness and our and our togetherness and and how hard we're gonna fight for each other, like having those things set out have really helped. Um it shapes your week, it shapes your your Monday meeting, like how we're gonna address after another loss. Um so finding like clips of someone chasing someone down where you're down by 30 points in the last play, and we make a try-saving tackle, you know, like those things they you know, like having that kind of thing really just you know, like that's that's so powerful for a coach to keep you on the right track and and it gives you stuff to review and and to grow. Um that's a that's probably a that's a big one. Um I find um like a coach or coaches or or a captain or or someone who you know, a personality and a team, um, they're they're the barometer for the the energy in the room. And if we meet on a Monday with the what I call it the game drivers, we've got young guys and old guys and and and we talk about anything from the game, it might be a momentum shift, or it might be, hey, how was the social and what can we do this week? What social have we got this week to connect in or whatever? And then we talk about like our body language and our and our and our verbal language and what we're gonna talk about to the team and how we're gonna how we're gonna speak in the change room and if anyone's sort of moaning or doubting themselves or a little bit negative, like how we're gonna because we're we're the we're the barometer for it, and if we're negative or we're frustrated or angry or or happy or whatever, then that's gonna transfer across to the players. So I think being quite deliberate with that is is really I've learned like that's such a such a powerful um such a powerful weapon to have, like to to walk into a room on a Monday after a loss and be really positive or really um or really deliberate with language, you know, like hey, this wasn't good enough, this is what it looks like, but we're gonna get better and this is how we're gonna do it. Um so I probably relied on on that um a lot around being deliberate with um deliberate and that's a probably a 48-hour process, Jam. It's it comes from like I think having that Sunday off, like particularly for me, I've got a young family and I want to spend time with them, and I'm lucky that we don't train again till Monday night, so I can spend from nine Monday, nine o'clock till three o'clock watching a game back, prepping, you know, like working out. And I've also I've got rid of that like real anger, like I get frustrated or disappointed or or um or hopeful. We were so close, we lost Bedford by a point, and it was like, oh my god, how good was that? It was awesome. I was pumped, you know, boys having you know enjoying themselves after the game, and then I get 48 hours to sort of come back down to zero. So I think I've learned that I can beat myself up, I can be disappointed, I can have tough conversations, I can have a beer or enjoy myself, or I can get away and that's really healthy. I think that's been really healthy for me, and and that's probably something you know you can take yourself out of out of it, or you can be in it in a storm and then just take yourself out of that, and by the time you get to Monday, got a pretty clear plan, you're back to zero, and so I've I've used that a lot. Um I'm pretty an emotional like coach. I I draw upon stories and and I draw upon people's experiences and and I, you know, like I don't F and Jeff, but I you know, like I like to speak and I like to be nice and clear and um you know that can you know that can be tiring, but if I'm if I've got that time to decompress, then that that seems to to work.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Have you gone too far emotionally? Like emotional coach, have you have you had a few blowouts like with this many losses in a row and the pressures and stuff that come with that, have you blown out and said stuff you you regret this season?

SPEAKER_01 31:54

I've had I I've had one not blowout, that's that's that's old school. And I've had one and it was at half time in one game, and it was around um around effort. It was nothing to do with execution. Uh it was effort creating poor execution, poor decision making through effort. We talk about effort creates opportunities. Um that's a big rock for us around things. If we're if we're not willing to run fast, then we're not gonna get the opportunities and we're not gonna execute. So that was one I've had, and I don't regret it. Um I was pretty deliberate before halftime. I knew I could just feel in the warm-up, I could feel in the start of the game, I could feel through the first half. Um we started wrestling it back, and it I think it was 13.5 to to to them at halftime, and I kind of wrote, look, this is what I want to do. This is what I want. So I wrote a couple of things down in my notebook and just said I'm gonna stick to these and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna wing it um as much, but I'm gonna be quite deliberate that I think these guys need some I think they need to feel some heart and some hunger and some fight from me. Um players might say otherwise, they might think because I'm quite direct, I'm pretty honest, like I call a spade a spade, so they might sometimes think me being really positive at times is actually, geez, he's pissed off. Um but um yeah, once. Crazy A, once. That's it. Once and it and I don't regret it. And I thought it was good and we responded. We didn't get the win, but we responded. It was cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Would you have been tempted to do more of it if that if the response was g good? D do you think in the season maybe doing it more than once might have been worthwhile?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

I think like that was a a like a raised voice, like a a yelly kind of thing. Um throwing chairs type I no not quite chairs, but I was like Yeah. I I don't think so, but I so what I do what I have been deliberate with is I can st I think that you can deliver that intensity or that that emotional message in other calmer ways. Um I I remember, I always remember your when you coached at Leicester and I was there and you talked about you told a story about I I don't know, what was it? Hanukkah May I might have told a story about two frogs and a bucket of milk and and like one frog just gives up and dry dies and the other one just keeps fighting and then eventually turns it into cream and then butter and then he jumps out and I so those little stories that that like can be like that can be as powerful in a in a in a humorous way, but a connection to a something way as as yelling, so I've been pretty deliberate. We had um it was around uh um Remembrance Day we got um I got some Air Force guys in who'd been at um Gallipoli and they came and spoke to the boys before the game. Like I didn't hide I didn't even speak to them in the huddle before in the changing room. They spoke um around a couple of things. Um I sort of briefed them on what we're trying to be and what we're trying to do, and and they they spoke for five minutes and that was better than anything I could ever do. And the players went in, you know, went went good. It was against Nottingham and we we nearly beat them, you know. So could I have done more of them, maybe, but it's a long season, and if you get it wrong early or you get it wrong ever, like that that can be hard to drag back, I reckon. Yeah. I don't know, I think it is, but I've been in teams where the coach does yell a lot and it oh, you know, like it sometimes you need it and you're like, yeah, we deserve that. And sometimes it's like, oh, here we go.

Accelerating Experience And Simplifying Leadership

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah. It's almost like the same as parenting, right? If um as a father, for for us to if if you're constantly using that yelly voice or that demanding voice, it just turns into white noise after a while and the kids don't really listen, they don't really pay attention when dad's just using his voice again. But I would say as a suggestion to that though, like because you I know you would want your voice to be when you say it, like you say it occasionally or now and then, it actually lands really strongly, right? Like when you yell at your kid to stop because at the side of a road and you don't do it normally, they they go, Whoa, dad's talking in that voice, something I gotta listen to this. But I would say, mate, um, there's a there's something about the variety in your approach, isn't there? Like as a coach, you need to appeal to hit try hit all the different personality types in the room. So sometimes that angry voice works for a couple of people in the room, particularly. It might not work for everyone, but then the other times the the softer voice works for the other chunk of the room, and then sometimes the sort of balanced version works for the other chunk of the room. So part of the art of coaching is to be able to hit as many people you can with the way you deliver stuff, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah. Yeah, and and and um that's something I've learned as well. It's not all about me. Um, particularly when things aren't going well, you kind of burden that responsibility of the group. But I I've probably learned that it's not just me, Blake Burden. It's the captain, it's the lineup caller, it's our Fords coach, it's the team manager, you know, like there's everyone's got a little bit. Um so I've it might be a question to a player before just before we go in to talk at halftime, you know, it might be, hey, what are you thinking? And he'll say, I want to get into them, or I reckon we really need to double down on our attack in the second half or or something. So sometimes um I I've I've probably learnt that a lot. I've I've I find that not natural to let others, you know, like I I kind of I feel really responsible. Um so I've you know like Yeah, so that's something that I I'll probably have to admit that, you know, like at times it's it's easier just to keep doing and not sharing.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Mmm. Go almost insular, just just bunker down inside yourself, right? But that's a cool phrase, man. Not just me that's burdened. It comes back to a famous quote, is like that, a problem shared is a problem halved. I think that's a really cool one for coaches that are under the pump with results. That public definition of success is to not go an insular and in your bubble and your silo, but to actually understand that other people are hurting too, right? And it's it's not just your hurt, it's it's a bit of a bit of everyone. How do you, apart from just chatting to the leaders and other people, how do you share some of that burden or you know, just acknowledge that everyone's going through something?

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Um we I guess my process of the week. So what does our week look like? Um so we we tend to on a Monday it'll be a review, and there might be we might touch on a on something that might be appropriate to the to the week coming, but it's tend to be our process of review. On a Tuesday we look at um look at our attack stuff, and and then on Thursday we look at our defence. So I guess our process, the coaches have their their moment that we're there leading, and and and they know that it's their point or their area. Um we have the same thing with our with our groups of of um of coaches, like we we meet on a Zoom at one o'clock on a on a twelve o'clock on a Monday and just connect on what we've seen and what we need and what we think and and it might be, hey, this week I think we'll like you need to speak to the Fords more or let's get the backs in together and whatever it is. So we make a bit of a plan and and try and try and share that out a wee bit. Uh and then like I said, I've got a young or a s a growing group of young leaders, um, and we meet at five five thirty on a Monday and we sit down and go through it could be some clips or might just be talking or conversations or it might have been a task um to try and grow and and then I assign or they assign who's gonna go and try and lead that area throughout the we call it locker room talk. So outside of and on site you know, outside of rugby and on the field, and so I'm not having to, you know, if I'm the defence coach, I'm not having to stop the get stop it all the time and say, hey, our spacing's not good enough. Because I know that there's three or four guys in there that have had that that messaging from from us, we're aligned, and then they're leading it, and then if I'm not hearing their voices, I can just say after training, hey, I didn't hear you much today on that spacing stuff, but why not? And he'd be like, Oh, it was awesome. I was like okay, cool, find me a clip and then share it all. So I try and I do try we try and align, try and align on a lot of things and and by keeping what we're doing simple, I uh it's easy. Like we got simple those simple three things around our set piece transition. So we're like, okay, how did they go this week? Right, it's your you know your role to sort that line out. How are you gonna do that? Um, so we try and get alignment through through our process, I guess.

Resilience, Perspective, And Life Lessons

SPEAKER_00 41:14

How do you keep some of those leaders aligned sort of mentally? Like, it's obviously it's a tough season for everyone, like we talked about that burden of everyone. Like, is there any sort of resentment or potential poison that like amongst the team? And how do you manage that side of things? Because obviously people are frustrated because everyone wants to win or do well. Is that something which you've had to deal with and and how have you deal with it?

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Um the poisons one's an interesting one. There's obviously locker room that I don't see the locker room or the the the player WhatsApp group or the you know the small groups that go out drinking or or whatever on a Saturday night, and you don't hear those conversations. But um I I'm very deliberate with um with my language around we don't ever point fingers at each other and we don't moan and I so I I I make it a non-acceptable behavior to be, and it's not acceptable to be that that way um in a group. Um I can't control what people have in conversations, but I'm very deliberate with that and and and using my my voice that that's those things are we're not looking for excuses, there's no pointing, there's no moaning, we're looking for solutions, we're we're looking for answers, we're looking for effort, you know, and so I've been very deliberate with that. Um and I'm I'm lucky the the players that that are in in leadership areas are are good people, you know. We've had a couple of guys come and go um that that weren't aligned.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Did you have to let them go or they wanted to go?

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Uh a couple of both. Um I won't go into details, I don't think that's very fair to them, but there's there's been what there's been a couple of of each of those uh Jum where the the alignment just wasn't there. Um and and you know, those were tough calls for for the player and tough call for us uh or me. But um at the end of the day we've we've all got to be, I think alignment's really important and buy-ins hu hugely important because I don't know, you get one rotten banana, it ruins a bunch, you know, and um not everyone's gonna be happy all the time, like guys aren't playing, why am I not playing? We're really clear on our feedback and you know, like everyone does, but it it w you know, as long as it as long as everyone's sort of in the same page and and brought in, then then you can deal with those things as they come along. But if if they're not, then I think you've got that's when you've got a big problem. Uh the hardest thing for us, I guess, is when you when you aren't winning at no matter what you do, it I'm assuming at some point, I I don't know, we've probably not got there yet, but at some point it's gonna there's gonna be a tipping point or a point of no return or a point of you can return but it's gonna take a heap of effort or something different or I don't know, so I haven't crossed that bridge yet, but we haven't we haven't tipped over yet.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Yeah. Well here's something, mate, just just in regard to your comment earlier when you said let's have some challenging conversations. When you talk about no finger pointing, like a lot of coaches would say that sometimes pointing fingers leads to better accountability from players. Would you what would your stance or or or or thought around that conversation be? Does it or does it do the opposite?

Authenticity, Honesty, And What Coaches Disagree With

SPEAKER_01 44:37

I think it's a good one. Uh definitely accountability is huge and um I I I think it's probably a metaphor for if you're gonna call someone out, it has to be to them, it has to be in the moment, it you know, it has to be relevant, and and so it's more rather than sitting behind at home like stewing about things or or blaming the backs, blaming the forwards, and the forwards blaming the backs. And I think it's probably more of a how how we go about coming up with the you know, this is a problem, the forwards are the problem, right? How do we get it better? Like, okay, cool. Uh we talk about it or we practice it or we address it, whatever it is. So that's probably more of a a spin I'd put on on it. Um it's it's probably how you go about the the the pointing. Yeah. Um sort of like s like silent pointing is the worst day, you know, like people everyone's like thinking something but not willing to say it. And so I I guess gotta try and create an environment where they the people have a voice and it's gonna be heard or it's respected and it's not um yeah. Yeah, so that's good. I like it a around that. Um Cause you're right, if I don't know, little Johnny on the wing, he thinks he's doing real good, but everyone knows he can't catch a ball and but no one says anything, he's just gonna crack on, isn't he? You're not gonna get better.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Um Well, I I think there's a s a cool sort of concept around like a lot of coaches talk about that like you critique in private and then you praise in public, so you show the good stuff and publicly, but then if there's work-ons of things, you go to that person individually and then put it to them like that. But but the other one which a a lot of high performing teams often go to is that kind of the concept of you critique performance also a little bit privately, like individual technique stuff, that's stuff done off the off the record. But then coming back to some of your points, when effort is lacking, then that's a public thing, because that's part of your your goals, the fit fight, tight what you said out at the start. If effort is not there, then that's sort of the stuff that can be critiqued publicly a little bit more because that's one of your team's founding fan foundations. And so sometimes reinforcing the goods and bads of that can be potentially quite um good for a group in theory, but again, it's how you deliver it and there's ways to point fingers, right?

Three Takeaways And Closing Reflections

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Yeah, yeah, we I tend to on a review on a Monday, we we look at our cultural like uh actions, you know, I guess our actions on the field uh are what we're trying to encourage off the field and and how we train and how we uh language and how we talk to each other, and and so I'll I'll try and find some examples of of those, you know, where someone, like I said, chased down someone or they hit a ruck that they shouldn't have, or that or they ran 70 metres to support someone and and and got the try, you know, like so those things are probably a little bit like above and beyond effort. Effort is the standard, and um and that's what we expect of you know, every rugby player is expected to work hard and and show effort and um but it's above and beyond stuff, and I I try and highlight those and in the odd time we might show, you know, a clip or two where someone's walking, you know, like hey, just you know, we're what like we call it camera four, so the fourth camera's the the right panned out, and it's like hey, boys not having a go here, but look, we can't be walking, um, or we can't be, you know, like someone's just made a mistake, we've got all got to be chasing back, and look at these five of you guys are whatever, you know. And I think there's a there's a balance between like being a real personal attack and and actually no, this is not a personal thing. This is a a team that needs to grow in this area, and likewise showing the three or four like positive, then this is the expectate expectation on effort or expectation on our on our fight or you know, or our behaviours. Um like we had we had one where uh one of our lads got late tackled, like quite late and high tackled, and and we don't condone any kind of handbags and stuff, but but our guy lay on the floor holding his jaw and and everyone he got penalised, the guy got penalised, and everyone just stood around and sort of watching, you know. And I remember highlighting that and going, hey, well like someone go over to the player and pick him up. You know, like we don't have to go and have a scrap or anything, but so some of those things were like, you know, and that was massively powerful. And then from that day on, like, guys would like we showed one where the Fords would win a scrum penalty and the backs didn't come in. And we're like, well, hey, there guys are pushing till their eyes bleed here and they've just got us a penalty. Get in and give them a few bum taps and and just show an expectation, like expected behaviours, and and that's good teammate work, you know, and and those things though, though they're infectious, you know, we can control that. Like we can't control the opposition's mall attack because they're too good, or we can't always defend for longer than ten phases because they just get us or whatever, but we can control a lot of emotional and effort and behavioural things, you know, d despite the score. Um one thing I've tried to well be good to hear your opinion, mate, around like sort of, you know, the next next job type mentality, which everyone has, like you're under the post, right? Next job is and then they score again and it's next job, but at some point that sort of analogy or that kind of tactic. So I've I I'd like that that'll be something I want to explore maybe in the second half is like how do we how do we really dial into our like next task focus and and how do we execute that next task? Um, because we often stack negatives um or we go positive negative um or we or we go positive, positive, negative. You know, we don't we we sort of momentum or so that might be something to to maybe look at in the second half of how we can how we can really dial into improving the next or the the the imminent focus.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Um yeah. Well, I I think it's just on on that, like it is like something you can train to, right? The next job mentality, even if you you almost look sometimes, I know, uh it is when you do drills, you can actually train the next job mentality around uh like stacking drills so that they're next jobbing. So, like say you're doing a tackle drill, you might um stack onto the end of a tackle drill where you get up and you realign, and the next job is to point out the next person you're marking up. And getting almost that sort of that automatic behavior of do one thing, next thing. And so every drill you might do um a passing drill, so where you where it's just four hands, and you know, the classic hands, you could add something into that. So everything's got a theme around this next job. You pass, and then you have to sprint around a cone and realign or take a kick or clean a ruck. Like, and just that, so just sowing the seed that there's always next job, so you never give players the time to dwell on what just happened, even in a drill. So, like you do a pass, and if if it's a good pass, you go, oh yeah, that's a good pass. And you've thought about that, and likewise if it's a bad pass, but if you pass and then you have to go and around the cone and clean something out, you haven't dwelled on that one thing, you've moved on really quick to the next job. And almost having that theming, like transferring it from a mental construct to like physically on the field, everything you're doing is next job, next job. And I I think just that that kind of creates a bit of a theme for a session as well. And if you're going into the back half of a season where that's the theme, then building into your training to reinforce that is is pretty cool. And furthermore, to your point around the huddle under the um uh that after you've scored a lot of points, I think it's also important too that you actually have a bit of a focus around cool things you can do in that huddle rather than it just be right, we're getting back up there kicking. That's all good. But like I've I've found little things you can do around like a real immediate next job might be we're just gonna chase this kick down. Like as a group, you know, Johnny's gonna go out first and we're gonna go back and we're gonna keep running until we get to halfway. That's the next job. And so you tick that box because sometimes if you say we're gonna get down there, we're gonna do X, Y, and Z, that may not pan out. And then you're like, ugh, well, we didn't even get what we wanted. But a controllable one is what you say in the huddle. You can do the next job, and there is all eyes on Captain. This is our focus for the huddle, and he's gonna say something, and that's it, and then we're gonna chase the kick, and then tick, we've done the next job. And you're it's like when you make your bed in the morning, you just get it done, so everything else that follows has a good start point. I I think you La Coach just can be really deliberate around some of those huddles, and and I think the next job is a cool theme, too.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Yeah, we we um we often reflect back and talk about well, what were we talking about in in that moment? We just they they just scored two tries in a row. What are we talking about after that second one? Or do we think about changing something, or you know, or you know, what was that? Why did we change it, or why did we kick long or short or whatever? So we we we often reflect back. I think that's important to to ask in those moments. So I'll write those down during the game and go, How are you? This was a good moment for us to reflect back on. And I might send out to the leadership group a a clip and just go, hey, we're gonna talk about this, or this is the topic, come with some ideas, and um so we try and reflect back, I guess, and and try and learn because we're we're what I'm trying to do as well, and this is this is a hard one because we obviously have resources and and budgets and all sorts, but we've got a really young group, um, and we've got a group of we've got some guys who are, you know, the older guy, but in terms of numbers of championship games, uh is low. And so I'm trying to, I guess, trying to accelerate learning and experience through uh reflective and and being deliberate with tasks and on field like game, like training-wise um scenarios that they've got to go and implement, and so that then we I'm trying to turn like a guy who's played 10 games into someone who's played 50 games just by reviewing or helping, you know, and and and some and one thing that we had this week, we we spoke um and one of the one of our lads said um, because we've got quite a a big group of them. Uh there's about eight of them that come in there. There's the two nines, one's 19 and one's mid-20s. We got two tens, one's late 20s, one's early 20s. We got the line out leader, we got a hooker, uh, got a center who's the defence leader, got a seven who's the other defence leader. For example, so that's the group. And one thing one of the lads in there said, he said, I think we're all thinking too much and not doing enough. All these meetings we're having, like everyone's like working stuff out and trying to learn and stuff, and but we're actually talking too much, and everyone's trying to not say there's not people saying too much, but he thinks everyone's trying to think of like what should we do next, and instead of doing the next thing. So we kind of so I've I I was I kind of like had a shit, I'm trying to do like some real good stuff with these guys, but actually might be holding them back from just playing. Um and we often I'd I'd often talk about 80-20 rule. 80% of leadership is is play is the player, and 20% is the actual leadership. So we sort of just said, alright, this week it's about 80-20, just be the best, like be the best player, and then your leadership will come off the back of it. Um So that was quite a what's the word, like an eye-opening moment. It was pretty cool that this lad's like realized it or thought of it, and they'll shared it, and we're like, actually, maybe, you know, we're we're not playing free, we're just we're thinking too much. And when you're thinking, you're slow.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Hmm. Does that come back to that opening statement you said about you've looked under every rug? Is there potential to be looking too hard sometimes and over-analysing, making players have to be thinking way too much than they ought to be?

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Probably, mate. Like we're probably just trying to not bite off too much, but I'm trying to just trying to do the best I can, you know, and trying to give them more and trying to accelerate learning and accelerate performance. Um the the the flip to that is we keep things pretty simple on the field and our meetings are relatively simple. There's sort of not more than one or two messages, you know, so we're pretty pretty good at there, I think, but it might just be a little bit of clutter around like the cognitive space and and um you know a couple of those guys in that leadership group are quite physical players, you know, so they don't need to be they maybe they just worry about hitting stuff and just release the release the hounds. Yeah, so that was that was something we looked at this week, and um so that might, you know, we'll reflect again on Monday and go, how did that feel? You know, how did it feel just like not even thinking too much and just like we've got our maps, we know what we're doing in this lineup, we know what we're trying to do on our kick chase, we just just crack on.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

And and and off air too, just when you talked about sort of flipping to something different, you talked about like flipping the narrative for some of these um losses and about how it's actually doing a wonderful thing for players in life, not just here now. You talked that side of things and you flipped some of the chat to around this hard time you're going through, which is a hard time, is actually doing wonders for you for life. And I just think there was a lovely statement you said. Were you able to sort of reflect on that sentiment?

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yeah, we've got at some point we um we we talked about um I I often talk with you stories or like past events or or or current stuff, and and one of the one of the things we were talking about at one point I talked about was in modern society, um, and not everywhere and not all the time, but modern society has become a little bit uh everyone gets the certificate and a lollipop and and you know like life's not like that. Like people are losing jobs or getting sick or you know, like life's not that like that. And and so we're we talked about the benefits of of going through really tough times and and is is inner resilience um is um the ability to have confidence in your in your own you know, your own life and that you'll get through any adversity if you can get through, you know, like currently a long losing streak, uh then, you know, when you you don't get a job or your girlfriend breaks up with you or or you know, or you get sick or whatever, you might have some internal resilience that has been growing. And so we talk about that and it it gets a bit emotional at times, some of the stuff. Um, we've had people in in in our team who have lost family members this year, and we we talk about, you know, like talk about that and how lucky we are to play and and you know, we reflect on some of that stuff and and use that as as you know reminders that we are lucky to to play footy, and even though you're losing, it's still an awesome game. And so yeah, it can be like rugby is such a cool cool sport for for life lessons and learning and friendships and and all those things. So you know, there's been a couple of occasions where I've I've reminded ourselves of those things and um and that that could be quite cool. Some guys take it on board, like like you said, some guys might go, oh, it doesn't mean much for me, and but you know, if we get five or six or ten or more or whatever of connecting into something, then it's uh it's worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

And what do you have to remind yourself of, mate? Like obviously you go through some pretty serious stresses and uh you you probably go pretty internal and deep dive on yourself. You look under every rug as a coach. What do you have to keep reminding yourself of as a coach?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

Um yeah, that's a great question. I I I often rem r remind myself of of two things. One is I'm doing my best. So um does that mean I can't do better? But of course it doesn't, but I'm doing my best. And I'm so I I remind myself on that, and that I'm you know, I'm doing my best, I'm human, I'm trying my best. And the other one is it's probably more like a legacy thing, but it doesn't define me. Um like being a great dad is way more important than this in you know in ten years' time the season will be a you know, like it'll be something to remember and but yeah, so there's loads more things that that'll define me. Um so this doesn't, but it's hard, it's hard, mate. It's hard sometimes because you just you're like, geez, I just want to win a few games and the boys are working so hard they rugby doesn't give you what you deserve. It's not that's not how it works, but they they're earning, you know, they earn it and they you know like the emotion the winning is such a beautiful emotion that I want them to have it. Like I I feel like they need it, and like it's such a nice thing to have, so that'll that'll be cool at some point for them to you know hopefully it happens. If it doesn't, please will be we'll write a book.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

We'll have to come back and have it in the post-season, yeah. The 26th season game season with be on Netflix next year. Mate, isn't it? I mate, I think those are absolutely lovely uh things, and I I think it's a really important um to to put those in perspective that one, doing your best, you're doing your best, and two, it doesn't define you. And and that's really important for coaches to remember because it's easily forgotten in the swirl of performance, in the swirl of you know, the pressure to win, to just remember those two things and be a little bit gentle on your yourself at times. I think it's a cool thing. Now, mate, it's got to that time. What what a um what an enlightening conversation, mate. Not many people can actually be as open as you are in the in the thick of it. You're in the heart of a streak, which is not a uh not a normal one and not a good one. So to be able to share and be so open is is unbelievable, mate, and it speaks volumes of yourself, as anyone that knows you knows that is you. So we will finish with one question, man, and it's this what's one belief you hold about coaching or culture that you suspect that you have that you reckon your peers or contemporaries would disagree with? And it's such hard one because I actually find like I've tried to be really authentic.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

I think I've learned through my 14 years of coaching that being authentic, and I probably did it when I played, I was me, like I just was me and I enjoyed it, and I probably played my best footy because of it. It's taken me probably 10 years of my coaching to be authentic and not try and just keep learning and be someone else and copying what Wayne Smith does, or bloody Rassi Erasmus or whatever, and learn from those guys because they're amazing, but um being authentic's really important, and so I I'm I'm sometimes very, very blunt, and I think a lot of people think I'm too honest and and I share a lot with players um that that a lot of people think I probably shouldn't share. Um not necessarily like secrets or de or anything, but just details of why I've got to something or why we're not good at something, and I I'm pretty pretty open and and that I don't think a lot of people think that I should be that open and honest and and probably that direct. Um and I guess it just comes from because I care. I really care about people and getting them better and and and probably more care about a team doing things together and and then doing them together off the field um as much as on the field. So yeah, that might be something people might disagree sometimes with how direct I can be.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

Well what out of interest, how c how why do you think it took 10 years to be authentically you?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Pro probably because I I I I I've got a goal, like I've got a coaching goal and I've not hit it. And I was wanted to do anything I could to be better to get that goal. And so I was like, I well, I've haven't hit that goal now, so I need to get better, so I'm gonna go and learn and I'm gonna listen, I'm gonna speak and question and and try and evolve and change and get better, or whatever. And I think I probably in doing that confused what was what made me good at whatever I was good at at the start. Um so that probably and then I had a a change of head coach and the new head coach said to me, What are you good at? That was the first thing he said, What are you good at? And I said, Oh, I'm quite good at these things. He goes, Well, that's what I want you to do. Do that. I was like, okay, cool. And then I just really enjoyed it and I just sort of became myself a bit more. And then I like for example, like I learned I I I learned the guitar when I was 30 odd just so I could play on a bus and like sing songs on a bus. That's what I did. And I at this one team I'd been in the team for three years and I hadn't played on a bus for three years because I just didn't feel like it was me. And then so yeah, that that was that was uh that was a moment really, probably three or four years ago when that probably that one coach asked me that question, what are you good at? Why are you you know do that? So thanks to him, I'll send him a message.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:43

Just to just to build on that's a good question to ask players too, isn't it? What are you good at? Just go do that well. Sometimes in coaching too, right, we're always looking for the thing that's not working. Sometimes to double down on the things that are working really well and get them outstanding is just as good, if not more, effective than critiquing the stuff that isn't. Craig Newby, what an absolute pleasure to have you on the Coaching Culture podcast. If I may, I'd just like to share with you my three takeaways that I've got from you from this conversation. Number one, the standards that are non-negotiable. Your team had these kind of frameworks around fit, fight, and tight, which I thought were awesome, and you kept coming back to them, whatever was happening in the season, and it wasn't always nice. And having something that you've agreed upon before time that everyone's bought into becomes almost like your Bible. And you can just refer to that, whatever happens in the season. So having those standards as a non negotiable, writing them down as a group and sticking to them is a great way to just. You know, be even killed in a season, regardless what's happening in it. Number two, the captain or the leader and or the coach is the barometer of the team. And I just love that thermo regulation of the team and your body language, your verbal language, has an effect like the heliotropic effect where the sunflowers follow the energy of the sun. So too do players follow the energy of the leaders and coaches in that team. And it's important you're really intentional about what that looks like and how that comes across, particularly when it's all not going to plan on field. So having an aligned voice is massively important. And number three is I love this phrase that you talked about, is not just me that's burdened, not just the coach that's burdened when you're going through a bit of a streak in performance. And when you understand that it's everybody's burdened at the same time, you're more open to sharing. And we we said the quote a problem shared is a problem halved. And that's a beautiful way as a coach to just actually take all the stress off yourself and actually help those that are also going through stresses. And just just to know, just have the intention that it's not just you that's in this, this is a team sport, and the more you can involve everyone, the better you're gonna be as a group. Craig Newby, what an absolute pleasure to have you here today in the mid season to to the on the Coaching Culture podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:23

Mate, it's been uh it's been nice to share. Um and I guess like you say, problem shared is problem halved, and and now I've shared it with some more people. So um I was actually thought you'd be struggling to find three good points. Uh so you've done well as well. So good on you, mate.