How to Travel as a Coach and Return as a Leader.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Coaching Culture, the podcast about cultivating culture and leadership. We are in the midweek reflections and we're reflecting on this elite coaches tour to Japan. And we've got Gordon Titchens here today, Sir Gordon Titchens, who will be one of the leads, along with Matt Cobain, leading this tour to Japan in December. And Gordon, how are you looking forward to this awesome coaching development tour that you're leading going to Japan at the end of the year?

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Yeah. Pretty exciting stuff, you know, when you're going into different countries as a coach and even in somewhere like Japan where you embrace the culture and you look at different styles and different ways of coaching and going to different clubs. It's quite exciting, really, and obviously a great opportunity for aspiring coaches to be in to be involved in a in a tour like this to a country like Japan.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yeah, it it is. It's almost one of a kind, really. Like, to my knowledge, there's not me like I don't know any other tours that are specifically for coaches that you can just attend. And it's an educational, yes, you're going to learn a lot about coaching, but all the other interactions, like with yourself, like the the small little things that you do with the other coaches on tour, from the buses to the trains to the conversations over coffee in the morning, beer at night, whatever it is, there's some great learning to be had, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Oh, for sure. Even in, you know, you're in a country where you're speaking different languages, isn't that as well. And it's amazing, you know, how much Japanese you'll learn when you're actually on on tour, you know, and uh when those key words, certainly in a in a coaching situation as well. But yeah, you're right, traveling, you know, whether you're on trains and in

Why Japan Is The Classroom

SPEAKER_00 1:36

buses, and it's always exciting because there's always something new. And uh even the facilities at all the the sporting grounds and in in Japan, for instance, at uh Shishibu Stadium, that we used to always be involved in uh in a sevens tournament there is the the people there, the spectators, you know, the the atmosphere is is is tremendous. And obviously being with the All Blacks, we were we were seen as gods to them when we were playing back in the day. And uh and I'll never forget it because Japan was certainly a country we loved to visit and uh we love the tournaments when we were involved. There is a as an All Black Sevens team, and uh and we've seen Japan improve dramatically over the last few years and certainly also with a lot of foreign coaches.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah, and and in a place like Japan, it's it's just a new way of thinking, isn't it? Because it's so different to anywhere else in the world. So it's like a little a melting pot where you're forced as coaches to just think a little bit differently, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you you do. And uh, but you're learning, you're always learning, you know. I mean, I've I I always remember watching a senior reserve team warm up in a particular game at a particular club game, and I saw these drills and grids that they were they were actually performing, and and I actually took quite a note of what they were doing, and I could see the benefits for my team in a sevens situation. So you're you're learning wherever. And you can imagine when you're over in Japan and you look at certainly ways around conditioning, look at skill sets, etc., you'd always be picking up something different to take away, take back to your club, take back to your province or your team or whatever that may be.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah, and you you obviously have 20 odd years with the All Black Sevens on tour from what is probably most of the year, right? What did you often, when you're going away on those sevens tours, pick up stuff along the way that from other teams and talking to other coaches as you went?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, I I I was always looking to pick up stuff. I was quite, you know, certainly when you saw different teams warm up at different times, for instance, if we had already played, and I might just venture over to how to watch how Kenya would warm up and and uh or in some cases we all trained at the same facility. So you'd also watch some training at times if we were waiting for a ground. And uh you did, you picked up a a lot of different things in which then you could add to your, I suppose, to your trainings at different times because it's you're always looking for variation as a coach. And

Culture Shifts How Coaches Think

SPEAKER_00 3:51

it also for the players it's it's energizing to have something new, and uh but at the same time it's gotta also be good for what you're trying to achieve. And uh in a sevens game, we're always uh trying to find as much space as we possibly could, and uh and um therefore you saw some real grids and drills that you thought could benefit your team, and so you latched onto that. And I think uh you know, for with a a lot of coaches going into a yeah to a country like Japan, because you're also operating in different temperatures as well, you know, you've got different weather conditions. Sometimes when we had our semester, I was freezing. It was really, really cold. So we had to obviously you know be strapped up with a lot of good gear, but at the same time we had to work particularly hard to get to a to a temperature of being really nice warmed up, and then we would we would how into our training. But obviously it was a a real challenge in adapting to those conditions at different times, and particularly when the snow was falling in in Japan, and uh was quite often the case when we were there, but it was something that we adjusted to and and hence I suppose just from that we just got better and better. And I always find also with touring that it's the second year that you go to a country. If you've been there the previous year, you're always a lot better, I suppose, prepared, if you like, because you know what to expect. And then the third year you're even better again and you know where to go, you know the shortcuts, and you actually it's better for your team as well in terms of your preparation going into in my case with going into tournaments.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

And mate, one thing with seeing that going with you, like it's pretty rare opportunity for um coaches of any level to aspiring coaches to be heading away for 10 days with um an ex-all black coach who's been probably the one of the most decorated coach all black coaches in history. And why are you so open, mate, to like sharing your knowledge and chewing the fat with other coaches? What is it about you that that you enjoy this stuff, they enjoy mixing with coaches of all levels. What do you what do you get out of it, mate? What's the what's the appeal for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

It's like a it's like a player in some cases. When you run you know, when you bring in a new player into your squad and and you see that player progress and he gets better and better, and then he gets exposed to to bigger and brighter teams, like uh, for instance, a player coming into the sevens programme and then going on to become an all black. I mean, that's the pleasure you get as a coach. You see the development, and all of a sudden you've seen them, you know, right at the very, very top because you believed always that they've had the potential, you've assisted in that and have been a big part of their, I suppose, their development, and you've seen them reap the the rewards by making these top teams. And you know, just as an example, let's say Rico Ioani, when he came in as a 17-year-old, and then you met his mum and dad, and you found everything out about Rico, and then of course, then from that he he, you know, in the seventh team in Wellington, that was his first tournament for us. And I always remember Graham Henry saying he ticks this guy's gonna be an all black, and sure enough, and Rico became a very, very good all black, playing 80-odd games for the All Racks, and he's still performing well and even now. So

Adapting Training While On Tour

SPEAKER_00 6:56

it's no different in coaching. If you can be part of a coach's journey, if you like, and you know, you can you you're not telling you must do it this way, you just give them some options, and this is a way that that might be work for you, and they'll look at it and they'll weigh it up, and if they they go with it, that's fantastic. And uh, and that's what you'd like to see. You'd like to grow the coaches, and you know, we're not so much old school, we're also still looking for new initiatives and new innovations, but there's a lot of stuff back in my day that still works for different teams and you mustn't go away from. And and I think with a lot of coaches also is about, I suppose, earning the respect as a coach from the players that you're going to that you're going to coach. And I think that's a a real, real key is your people skills and and all areas around that, I think, and uh and obviously developing a culture and you know all about that and and with good leadership, and I think uh those are the real keys if you can if you can, I suppose, talk to the coaches about and they take on board which they feel is going to be beneficial for them as a coach. And I think that that's the real pluses.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah, I think so, Matt. I I think part of this journey, as much as we're going to a wonderful place in Japan where the experience will be phenomenal, the people skills that you'll pick up, right? Like you're mixing with uh 30 odd other coaches that are all on this tour, and we get to chat with yourself and those people skills to be able to like pull stuff out of yourself. I think that's something for coaches that to the chat with you where you can have over a coffee in the morning and just what do you think about that session we watched last night, Gordon? What would what'd you take out of it? What were you watching? I know that's what I've loved about um when I've had someone, a mentor of mine on a on a trip like this, and you're asking those sort of questions. What what are you watching in this session? Or what what what would you pick up? And then just seeing how someone who's been in the game a long time, been very successful, does things, it rubs off, right? Like you you are who you surround yourself with, isn't it? Like the you you you tell me who your your five closest people are and I'll tell you the type of person you'll become, right? That's that's kind of those statements. And the more you can mix with the likes of yourself, the more it's it's gonna just do wonders for your coaching journey too, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah, well yeah, one of the key questions I always seem to get asked is what do you see in a player and how do you select the player? You know, which is which is key really, is what do you actually what the score and titles see in that player? And I've identified a lot of players over the many, many years that uh that could provide something to the sevens game that's got the X factors that are required on the Sevens field, and what do you see in that player? And it's there's a lot of work that goes into that because I always remember I won tournaments not with the best players because I could never select the best players because they weren't available to me. But I had the best teams. So what is it you look and find in a player? And it's about finding the players that have some skill sets that you want, but then there's the other side of that. Put all those aside and it's about the player's attitude to what he wants to achieve and and and how does he how does he get there and uh how do you you know, it's it's spending one-on-one time with him and you'll get a good feel. It's uh I've always said that, I've always believed in character in a player. You know, with character is someone that's very, very coachable. And I think those are are real key elements and what coaches need to know. You know, you can you can go out and you can hunch and you can look and there might be one player in a particular game that does a couple of special things that may go unnoticed that you see Man, this guy could be good. He he does stuff that I can't coach. And those are the the key things that you need as a coach to to see and and it's I mean, I over the years, mate, it's um that's been one of my key areas. I just go into particular games and they might be a nothing game, might

Talent ID And Player Character

SPEAKER_00 10:39

be just a simple club game, but I can see one or two players out there that have got some key attributes of skill sets that could be very, very good, you know, when you're looking at um going into looking to select a team and and these players have come out of nowhere, you know. And I mean and Craig DeGaulle is an example from the West Coast. He was in a West Coast sevens team that was getting smashed at the National Sevens and that. But boy he was someone that rolled his sleeves up, had some good skill sets, and you could tell he was the type of player that that thrived on hard work. So you bring him into one of my cacks and you visualize, say, how good would this player be if he was playing with someone like an Eric Rush? Those are the key areas that I used to to look at and look for. Doesn't matter whether your team is getting smashed, there might be one or two key individuals in there that that man, that could be very, very good if you put give them that opportunity to play in a national team.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah, mate. Well, these are the sort of conversations which I think makes this uh tour just unbelievable, really. And you can go to all your sort of level one, two, three courses, all those courses, but where the real value is, is this sort of conversation where you're actually over Yakuneku, which is a Korean barbecue or a sushi or onigeti from the comedian stores, just having these sort of incidental conversations around what you've done and your experience, I think is the real, real gold of these tours. And in any sort of coach development, it's the chat amongst coaches and having experienced coaches like yourself, I think just does so much good stuff for a coach's journey. The other thing, mate, is it it actually it this is a real networking opportunity too, right? You're gonna be surrounded by like-minded coaches led by two very experienced coaches, and there's so much value in creating a little mastermind group with coaches, you're gonna come away from this tour pretty tight with 20 to 30 aspiring coaches and from all over the world. Where like we've got people calling in booked in already from England, from Ireland, from India, as as well as the normal sort of places like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. So it's an absolute diverse mix of coaches around the world, and you're gonna have this network formed through this shared experience, 10 Days in Japan together. It's pretty cool, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Oh, it's great. I mean, uh, it's just great. You know, when you look at coaching now, the the opportunities. It doesn't matter whether you're in your own country, across the world, career opportunities to be involved in a in a game that we all love, and that's the it's a game of rugby. And you know, I mean, coaching, who would have thought, you know, like when you when you really think about it that you could see the world as a coach. You know, you've got some great, great prospects, and it's become now. We know we're all uh accountable as coaches. It's a it's a pretty challenging journey at times, but at the same time, it's very, very, very, very enjoyable. And and you've got to believe what you're doing, but you're looking at opportunities out there to make you a better coach, and I think that's the the real, real key.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yeah, mate. Well, we've been really privileged on this tour to be able to do this for starters, just to put draw on a lot of contacts and things to to make this this happen. We've got Gullivers Travels who are legends at doing these sort of tours. They've done over 4,000

Networking With Coaches Worldwide

SPEAKER_01 13:45

rugby tours and they know what they're doing. They've put together a really awesome package. We've really kept this package too, so it's really affordable. Um, and we've done that on purpose because we want this to be something that coaches can do for their development tour. So if you want to get on this tour, you just jump on gullivers.com.au. It's all in the show notes here. But it's gonna be awesome. We've got Gordon Titchens, Matt Cobain, we're starting in Osaka and we're making our way to Tokyo. We're stopping at schools, universities, which is a big part of the Japan rugby, and pro clubs, as well as uh a couple of national bodies as well. Just drawing on the people that we know, you're gonna chat to some awesome coaches who are currently in it. They'll be hard in preseason. As when we get there, we'll be able to watch what they're doing in the preseason, and we'll be asked to sit down with some of those coaches too. Gordon, what's what are you looking forward to most, my friend? What's what element for you as the lead on this tour, which really sparks you off? And if you say egg sandwich, that's fine, because that's what Matt Matt Cobain said. He said the m the egg sandwiches from the convenience stores are exactly one of his highlights already. What's yours, mate?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Man, I mate, I mean, there's so many different things in in these different countries that you visit. But I'm just I just love, and certainly in Japan, in this case, just just being in that country and you when you when you're dealing with coaches that aspire to to certainly they've chosen, you know, coaching as a career and uh to be there

Tour Plan From Osaka To Tokyo

SPEAKER_00 15:10

to help them become a better coach over a a period of 10 to 12 days. I think that's that's what I'm looking forward to. I certainly enjoy the the the sushi and that while I'm in Japan, I no question about that. I I love their culture in Japan. But again, I haven't been there for a number of years, so I'm so much looking forward to it. But also more working with the with the aspiring coaches that are going to be involved in this tour.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Love it, mate. Well, Gordon Tinchens, thank you for your time on this little little just a little promo here, just to get people as excited about this tour, which is coming up in December from the 3rd to the 13th. Like I said earlier, jump on gullivers.com.au to check it all out and get all the details there and book in quick because we're gonna get a lot of people coming in hot around this from all over the world. It's a once-in-a-lifetime experience, culturally unreal. And if you're a rugby coach, you're gonna come back such a better coach. You're gonna have better networks, you're gonna have this experience to chew the fat with some of the very best in the game, and you're gonna have a mastermind group at the end of it of like-minded,

What Gordon Is Most Excited For

SPEAKER_01 16:07

aspiring coaches from all over the world, and your network's just gonna grow and grow and grow and grow and grow, and it will be gold. So get in, ask any questions you want, to me personally, because I've had a truckload of people come in already asking questions, and I love it. Like the point of this is to grow better coaches. This is what this community is all about, and this podcast is about. And what a pleasure to be on that journey with a lot of coaches, and we want to make this one an absolute cracker so we can do more and more and more of them. Gordon Titchens, can't wait for this tour, my friend. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Cheers, Ben, cheers, mate.