13. (Almost) Everything You Need to Know About Bike Tune-Ups

Spring is here, and our thoughts turn towards getting bikes ready to ride. But does your bike "need" a tune up? Steve and Kristin talk about what is (generally) included in a service package, what can you do to care for your bike to extend it's life, and how to ensure you get what you pay for when bringing your bike to the bike shop.

Steve also shares why he's excited for the announcements from SRAM including the new Eagle Mechanical Transmission and, but not so impressed by the 32" tires coming out 2025 Taipei Cycle Show,

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

This is Kristen.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

And I'm Steve, and you were listening to Cycling Together, a show all about bikes, uh riding and riding together. I am wearing my Yeti Hunter sweater today because it is uh cold outside. Very, very cold weekend, and everybody's freaking out on social media. Or should you say not freaking out? They are upset that it yesterday it was 80 in New York City. So basically a hundred miles northeast of uh the New York City region, it dropped 40 degrees yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Oh, really? Oh, yeah. This is, you know, we always say with March, like March is the worst. It's the worst. You think it's spring, but it's not. But that's okay. We got a lot, we're getting a lot done this weekend. We actually went to a first aid class yesterday, sponsored by our local New England Mountain Bike Association um chapter. The first one you've ever gone to.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah, it was the first official real first aid class, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

I was surprised by that. I don't know how you avoided it before now because I have gone to so many over the years between the Girl Scouts and other things, but I thought it was really good. Did you learn? Do you feel like you learned anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I feel like I I do. You can't I couldn't say what I learned. I think a lot, a lot of times these things are reinforcement of what you think you know. Yes. And therefore it's uh it's reaffirming what in your head you think you would do. Yes. A lot of it is common sense stuff, so in some cases it's it's just saying, yeah, if you you think it's wrong, that that's wrong, it probably is, and in the way you think it's wrong, that kind of stuff. So um it was certainly worthwhile doing. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

That's good to hear. And it was a good class because unlike other first aid classes, it was geared towards mountain biking and kind of the the special situation that you find in the world. And New England mountain biking. I think the one that I don't know if it's ever been a scenario, but they were talking about a scenario where you where you're ride it, you ride up and you find someone just unconscious in the trail.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

And I thought that would be horrifying. Could you imagine you're just riding along and there's just a body in the trail and a bike, and what would you do?

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

You know, most of the time the scenarios we're gonna be in, we will have seen the accident, we will have seen what happened, right? Right, because we're riding with a group, and that's why we but a lot of us riding.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

We'll go out on a on a, you know, we get out of work early or whatever, you go out, you know, lunch, whatever. And so a lot of us ride by ourselves, and um and yeah, you theoretically that could absolutely happen.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Um, I know. I whenever I take these classes, I'm torn between, oh, I'm never riding my bike again. Because, you know, it's like, what are the worst things that could happen? You get a sucking chest wound, and then also just I hope that never happens on my group ride. But it does, I feel I always feel better. I feel more informed afterwards. And the more of us think it get that can get trained, the better. And uh the really cool thing is the chapter uh paid for first aid kits for all of us that um I actually worked on putting them all together, and they got a a rating by the instructor. He said they were excellent. So pretty excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

You should be. You put a lot of work into getting every individual part in that kit and then laying everything out and then putting it all together in the first aid bag. I mean, there was a lot of work going on there.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Still have to find chewable aspirin.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

We'll work on that. And you also went to you had you got some education this week from SRAM.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, so I guess that's sort of the the big news in the mountain biking world in terms of parts, is that SRAM came out with their new mechanical transmission group set. Um, transmission is the derailleur which attaches directly to the frame on any frame that has a universal derailleur hanger. You kind of get rid of that hanger and you can put the derailler directly on the frame. There's a lot of benefits to that, but it has only been expensive electronic shifting until now. Right. So I think you're gonna see this on uh well, you're gonna see this on just so many mountain bikes um coming out. It'll be interesting to see. I mean, it is available now. You can get the parts available now. A lot of times, SRAM, what they will do is they will make their big announcement when they already have the product in place in the warehouse ready to go.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

I do like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

And I right so that seems good. That does seem good. So I I would assume it has been in the hands of the manufacturers in time to roll out new product, but I you that is not always the case. Right. Sometimes things are delayed like that, and that so you it could be that 2025 bikes don't have that because it wasn't ready for them.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

So transmission, as you said, it it attaches directly to the frame, so there's no derailer hanger. The derailer hanger is the thing I've often heard it referred to like if you know your Greek Greek mythology. Um if if the bike was Achilles, the derailleur is where Achilles' mom was holding on to. So it's the Achilles heel of the bike. Yep. Um, whenever people come in with shifting issues, it's invariably a bent hanger.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

A bent hanger.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

And it protects the derailer and the frame. And the frame.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

And so this thing is tough. You supposedly can stand on it.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Because the derailler mounts on both sides of the frame, in and then the through axle goes through that. Yeah, there's there's basically you can stand on it, correct. You can kick it, you can stand on it. Um, so they came out with two levels, um 90 and 70 is what they're calling them. The 90 is the the better one. I think what it looks like right now, since I don't have my hands on it, but just given price points, I believe we're looking at about GX level and sort of NX level.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Um, and I think they assume that anybody who was gonna get something in the past of XOXX level mechanical is actually just choosing electronic now. Yep. This is great. I mean, GX Eagle mechanical shifting in the past was quite good. Okay, but it was also very it could be very finicky to set up.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

You you introduced all those 12 gears, the wide range, and then every little bit of movement or slop in that system just created a little bit of a problem. So it was always finicky to set up. NX, even more so because the driller was not made to the same tolerances, it could develop slop and develop play, and then that would just make it even harder. So this is gonna take a lot of that. A lot of that out.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Yeah, and it it's now at a lower price point, too. So if somebody doesn't want electronic shifting, they don't want to pay for electronic shifting, they can still have all the benefits of right, or they and they just or they just prefer mechanical transmission.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, in theory, the the um transmission electronic shifting system can shift. Well, we're gonna we're gonna air quote this slow because it it sort of waits for these shifting ramps. Okay, and so a lot of times people, if they want to make a lot of shifts at once and they push the buttons, say four times, the driller almost has to catch up with those shifts to make that four shifts. And I have not used it yet, but from what I've heard, you could actually shift faster with mechanical, the mechanical version of this. Interesting. Yeah, can't wait to get my hands on that to try that. And then the only other thing, I guess, when we're talking about SRAM, a big thing that came from them is they are reducing down the number of different brakes they offer.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

And so, and then they're changing the everything to mineral oil. This is one of those funny cases, you know, for years and years and years, SRAM uh they had always used DOT or DOT fluid, which is what which is what cars use. Yeah. It is a it's corrosive. Well, we can it can hurt your skin if it stays on your skin for too long. It can hurt paint if it stays on too long.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Well, we talked about this on one of our past episodes that it was great because it was universally, you could find it anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

But it was bad for a host of other reasons.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Environmental reasons and and just usage reasons, and and it it absorbs water, it's hydroscopic, so it also needs to be bled more often and can cause a little bit more issues there. You know, but but SRAM had always been like, oh, this is the best, dot dot fluid's the best, it's the best, this is why we go with it. Yeah. And now suddenly it's a complete sort of reversal. And and I like it. I prefer that. This is great that they're moving to mineral oil.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Yeah, it sounds like some good announcements out of SRAM. And actually, it's interesting that you mentioned a couple of times, like, you know, difficulties adjusting, shifting, uh, need to um bleed your brakes more often. Because this is also, we're in spring, people are starting to think about service, getting their bike serviced. We are looking at your service packages, your pricing. We're even rolling out something new. We're rolling out our new STBG insider program.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

That's the big announcement here for that is the STBG Insider Program, membership program.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah, yes. You were saying it's not an original idea. We're not the first shop to do a membership program, and ours is gonna mature.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

If anybody's familiar with REI, it's a little bit in a way like their um membership model, where there is a one-time lifetime fee. Yep. And and so that gets you a member in the program insider. Right. And so there's a whole host of reasons to do this. One of the big ones is that I am a small shop with limited availability for service in terms of my time. And a lot of my good customers come to me because I'm the one servicing their bikes. But I also then uh get filled up with a lot of new customers, which is wonderful. Right, which is which is great, yes. Yeah, because they see my five-star review and they're like, oh my gosh, I gotta come here. But a lot of these customers, they're just pulling their bike out after years. They're gonna come in, they're gonna get a tune-up, and I might not see them again for years. Right. But what happens is it can fill up my service schedule, and now suddenly all my good loyal customers can't find any time to book with me for service. Yeah. So by by doing this, I'm able to block out time.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

Its biggest benefit right now is that there is a booking page just for insiders. Those appointments are only available to insiders. There are there are some other benefits, discounts on your service levels and discounts on STBG branded gear, and we'll continue to mature it. But now going into the busiest time of year, I would say the chief benefit is making sure that the people who we want to make sure they're getting appointments are getting some. It's it's kind of a self-selected annual, it's just once, but it it lets them self-select as as wanting that benefit.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

So, but it it brings up the topic for today also, which is about service. Right. Because I think well, let me just share my experience. When I started working more regularly at the shop, which was during the pandemic, and we introduced our Saturday service drop-in service, which meant you could come and you would give a bike 15 minutes. People would say, they would come up to me and they'd say, I want to sign in, I need a tune-up. And what I realized was that that was the generic term for any work needed on a bike.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yes. Right? Yeah, even people who needed a tube replaced might some sign.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

They might say, I need a tune-up.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Right. And so that's what we're gonna talk about. Um, starting with what is a tune-up? When somebody says tune-up to you, what is that? Because I did start to learn to say we don't do tune-ups, we do quick repairs, we do well for the for the drop in sediments. I was like, we don't eat tune-ups take more than fit. We don't do tune-ups, we don't do uh we do wellness checks, we do quick fixes and repairs. And they always would go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. That's what I need. Right. I have a flat.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Right. My my brakes aren't rubbing, or yes. My derailer is not shifting.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Right. So to you, what is a tune-up?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Tune-up is definitely a more comprehensive going over everything in the bike.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

But not necessarily doing everything on the bike. And I and but not but not leaving things that are dangerous or need doing undone, you know, like the shop. The shop would say, Well, you wanted a basic tune-up, but I found this, so if you but this really should get done, that's an add-on.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

There's two questions, because I think there's some people that say, I need a tune-up every single year. And again, they don't know what a tune-up is.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

There are other that would say they're just priced to to to sell things, right? Like tune-ups are actually not necessary because they're just it's just a bike shop doing a cash grab.

SPEAKER_04 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Most shops that we have seen, we have visited, I have researched online and so forth. It is not, there's no, there's no bait and switch there like you might find in an oil change place type of situation. Yeah. They're not pricing their tune-ups to get you in the door and then then say, aha, but this is wrong and this is wrong and this wrong, and we want to sell you this, this, and this. That is not the the the the tune-ups are generally not priced like that. They're not priced as a get you in the door, and then we're going to charge you a lot more on top of that. The the tune-up just it is really good for catching a lot of early things. It's good for making sure your bike feels its best for the year. Heavy ride uh heavy riders, th I should say uh high mileage riders is the better is the better.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

People who use their bike a lot.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah, heavy usage riders, right? They might need multiple tune-ups a year.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Usually it's a case where they might get a tune-up in the spring and then they pop in for certain smaller items throughout the year. Right. But but the tune-up does catch a lot of things and fix a lot of small things before they become bigger problems.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Right, because you, as you said, there's a safety check. There should be a safety check element to any level of tune-up, which is just make sure there's no corrosion, make sure your bait brake pads don't need to be replaced, make sure all your bolts are tight. Yes. Right, there's no wiggly bits.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Right. There is, I know, like one of the things we hear sometimes is say, oh, and whenever I take my bike in, they always replace the chain. And the perception on that is that's the upsell, like they're always replacing the chain. Can you talk to me about chains for a second? Because chains the replacement of chains can actually save you money in the long run. It can.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

So this is gonna get a little bit controversial in a way, maybe, but yeah, so a lot of bikes that come in for tune-ups do need a chain because chains do what's called stretch. Now, the metal that's the term used, the chain has been stretched, right? Um it's a it's a little bit of confusing of a term because the metal's not stretching. What's happening is that the pins through the plates, they roll around between those plates as the chain goes around bends around the crankset, bends between the pulleys, around the cassette, and so those round rollers start wearing down the holes that they're pressed into, okay, making those holes bigger, and so therefore, there's more slop in those pins. And if you put a worn chain up against a new chain, link for link, that new that worn chain is now half an inch longer, three-quarters of an inch longer than the new chain.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

That means the pitch of the holes, the pitch of the of the plates that that are supposed to engage all those teeth is now longer than those teeth. And so you begin to wear down your cassette teeth, wear down your chain ring teeth, wear down your pulleys.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And so if you catch the chain, if you replace the chain at its wear point, um, and that varies a little bit by the speed of the chain, the type of the chain, um, then you can go, you can put on just just put on a chain, and you can keep the same cassette for three, four chain replacements. You can keep the chain rings for m more replacements than that, and the and the same thing for the pulleys. Um they have other wear issues.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

But so if you if you but if you use the chain for too long, yes, it basically changes the shape.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

It changes the shape of all the teeth, and therefore a new chain will no longer ma it will no longer mesh with those teeth.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

So then you're forced with replacing the chain and the cassette.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yep. Usually first the cassette, and usually it's because your and especially your favorite cogs that you use the most are really worn, and they will skip and pop.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

And then the chain ring, because those are larger rings, those and even though they're aluminum, they actually can wear a little bit uh longer sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Sometimes it's these we're gonna talk about at some point how to prepare for your visit to the bike shop, but this is one of those where an informed consumer is the best defense. Just like when you go for an oil change, you need to know what you need for your brain, you want to know what you need, and there are tools that in that one in particular, testing your chain is one of the easier there.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

There is a way to measure it with a ruler. Um basically pin to pin should be exactly 12 inches. Okay, and then depending on the chain chain, it's like 12 and an eighth is worn or 12 and a and three-eighths is worn. And then there are just very, very simple, cheap tools that you can put down into the links. And it's almost like a go-no-go, but you have to know which side you're using for your particular chain and so forth. Um, I mean, you know, it's also a case where a lot of shops, if your chain is just past worn and it's time to change the chain, they'll also say you need to change your cassette. And that is unfortunately not the case. So, what I will usually do when I change the chain is then I test ride the bikes outside and I will put pressure on every single cog on the rear, making sure that there's no skipping under reasonable pressure that I can do in the parking lot. Okay. If a chain is way past its stretch point, it is almost certain that there are a couple cogs on the rear of the cassette that are that are worn down too bad. Badly. And and you're and you just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Right. So let's talk about levels of service, right? There's usually service packages, bronze, silver, gold, tier one, tier two, tier three, pro, pro elite, elite, whatever they call them. How do you, I guess we can't speak to every shop, but like how do you decide what goes in each package and how to price it?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

So every every shop, I would say, I'm I'm just gonna make that assumption here, is gonna have their their basic tune, no matter what it's called. And those basic tunes are to make sure that. That you can safely use your bike. Usually it does not include a lot of cleaning, and often it doesn't include any part replacement. So if that if you do need a new chain, uh you might get charged extra for that. If you do need new shift cables, you might get charged extra labor time for those cables. Right. And I mean not just for the parts, but labor too.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

We're talking about labor tax. Yes, labor time. Not you should expect to pay for the parts for the parts. Parts are never included in a service package. So you need a new chain, maybe the work to do the chain is included, but the chain itself, not. Not. Okay. No, I mean I think it's important because you're trying to figure out what you're gonna end up uh spending, and you may not kind of have that in mind. Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Yeah, absolutely. I would say most hybrids that uh most is the wrong even turn, but a lot of hybrids get usually basic tunes. Okay. If if a hybrid is kept inside and it's lightly used or used sort of as intended and so forth, they often don't need much more than a basic tune. And and hybrids also usually don't need their chains replaced as often just by the usage, not right any other reason. Just because they're they're getting used in nicer weather with lighter duty, without as much grit on the on the everything and pressure on the pedals and all that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

And let's talk about that type of bike, because I think that's the the the bike and the tune we ran into the most during the start of the pandemic, because we had a lot of people who were pulling bikes down off the wall.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Probably hybrids, they hadn't been used for a while. They would come to us and say, We need a tune up. They hadn't been used in years, but they also hadn't been stored in a puddle. We found that they could get away with more of that Saturday service. A lot of them could because there had been no wear and tear on them.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

So a lot of them could just use that that quick, I'm gonna adjust your brakes, are a little bit out of left-right alignment, your shifting is just a little bit off.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Um, and that kind of thing, your tires, um, what like one of the tires isn't actually seated all the way into the rim. That that little stuff.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

We started to call them wellness checks.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

But you also found so so a lot of less expensive hybrids off often use cables that aren't stainless steel.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

And and and so a lot of them could be 15, 20 years old, and honestly, there are a lot of really great hybrids were say made in the 90s, even, right? And they're perfectly good bikes, but the cables needed to get replaced because the shifting was really tight. Yes, they just there was corrosion and rust going on. Because even bikes that are stored in a basement or garage encounter moisture. And so they had been sitting there and um and those cables corroded. Um, and so a lot of them might have only needed that basic check on a Saturday, and others needed the mid-level package to to get things going again nicely.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

So that's like a basic package. So so what would be when you say a mid-level package, what does that how does that start to jump up?

SPEAKER_01 23:25

I include more things. Okay, right. The the pricing the packages just comes down to the expected amount of time that it that a shop is gonna spend. That's why they're that's why the difference is there.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Yeah, and let's talk about that because it's really based on the number of hours time you expect it's gonna be to work on the bike.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

That is getting trickier because it's getting really tricky. Why is that? Tuna packages have from bike shops have been around for decades and decades. And 30 years ago, 20 years ago, bikes, whether it was a hybrid or a road bike or a mountain bike, was a very similar bike. Um similar, similar brakes, similar shifting, right, um external cables. It was all you could you could do the same work on all of these different bikes, and it was about the same. And you knew how much time it was gonna take for these kind of things. Right. And that is just not the case now. Bikes are and and and so here, I'm gonna I'm gonna read this out because this is the language I think we're gonna have on our new tune-up package area, and it's very, very similar to what other companies or other other shops say. Um, but one, you're gonna say actual rates can vary, and that is always the case. Um, and then and then I'm gonna say the industry constantly changes, and bikes are becoming more proprietary and unique, which may require more time than typical. And that cannot be more the truth the truth, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:00

I think the reality is everyone should understand that a service first of all, I don't think um, I know in your show notes you actually say, like, should we even bother with packages? I think we should.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

And because part of it is because it gives people some idea of where it's gonna start. Right. Right. Maybe it's a range, maybe you say it could be from this to this, but still. But I think that's important for everyone to understand that that packages, service packages are based on an estimate of hours. Right. And you may end up getting charged more because the number of hours that were required was more.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

It was more.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

And hopefully they tell you ahead of time, but sometimes you can't because you're in the middle of the bike, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Like you're in the middle of the yeah, I think every shop is going to be a little different like this. It has to get significant before I would even call them.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Um, my significant, I guess, is a as a is a yeah, it's subjective.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

I mean, it's like when you when you say to me that's expensive, and I'm like, is it a nickel or is it five hundred dollars? And the answer could be either.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Right. In my situation, an extra forty, fifty dollars is fairly insignificant.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

All right. Once we get above that, right, that also changes a little bit based on the customer. So there are there are certain customers that it is do whatever it takes. Yep. And and and then there are other customers you have you have the customer bringing in their 20-year-old hybrid, and they they're you're gonna see them once every three, four years, and they ride it, you know, uh a few times a summer, right? Then if something's gonna be twenty, twenty-five dollars more, I'll just probably let them know ahead of time.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

So I think maybe this also comes back to you as the customer. When you bring a a bike in, there's a process of evaluating what it's gonna need and talking to the customer. And again, we're gonna get into the customer like the intake. There's an intake, there's an intake. Sometimes there's an intake person at the shop.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yeah, the service writer. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Oh, that's the term, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Service writer.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

That's also the time to say, please call me if it needs any more than that. Exactly. You want it to be collaborative, you want to be partnering with your bike shop.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

But you should be clear with your bike shop, right? This is a beater bike. I just want to get it on the road and make sure it's safe.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

This is a bike that I adore, and I want you to put anything you can in it. Price is no consequence. I really can't go much above that, right? Because and you should get an estimate. You should expect some kind of at least range of what they think it may cost, unless they run into something crazy. And that's where service packages are helpful. Because before they even call you, they should have some idea what they're looking at. What it costs. I would be suspicious of any shop that won't tell you. I don't know if that's a thing, but like anybody who would say, Well, I don't know, you know, you you need you should have some.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah, and and I mean, uh because I am a little smaller and and more independent, I don't have a sort of a dedicated service writer, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:16

So his name is Steve.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Exactly. Um and and so I do work a little bit looser than other shops on that aspect, right? But as we just talked about how all of these bikes just becoming more and more different and unique and proprietary, a lot of times it can be very difficult to find the problem in the up front when your bike's getting checked in to get that to get that initial estimate of how much the whole everything's gonna be. Yeah. Because um, because a lot of stuff can't be found now until it's really dug into by the mechanic. Okay. So, you know, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

So when you talk about we've gone from the base service to like say a secondary service and a tertiary level of service, is it that it's deeper that it I mean it's more time, but what are you doing with that time?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

This is gonna vary by shot, but there might be things that are included more in that mid-level tune. It's it's almost usually gonna be include more cleaning. Okay, degreasing and degreasing, yes, and and degreasing can take uh definitely more time and energy. So more cleaning, more degreasing, more lubrication, things like cable replacement, maybe chain replacement. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

It could uh again, time not part.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Time not part. Right. Right. I mean you generally just sort of get into checking is a is a tough word to say because I like to think everything's sort of checked for a basic tune.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Right. It's not checking, it's these are for these are for more heavy usage. It is for more heavy usage that are having more usage are going to, we know, need more things replaced. It's not that you're just checking the cables, you're checking the cables at all level. But once you get to that level, second level, you're probably someone who's riding your bike a lot, so you know the cables are probably gonna have to get replaced or adjusted. You know that your brake pads are probably gonna have to get right or you had a long season, you hung it up, and now you're trying to get it ready for the spring. Right. Right. That's that's really I think the the big difference as I looked at the kind of levels. Yep. Do you need a tune up every year?

SPEAKER_01 30:30

So it does do you need it? That's a really loaded word.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

If you're somebody who doesn't work on your own bikes or doesn't know how to check things and doesn't know how to do the small things, then I would say yes. Okay. Because it's going to catch certain items. Yeah. And I mean, I I've actually had a a few so far in just the past couple weeks where they came in and only really needed the base tune-up, and the bike was in good condition. And I look back at last year, you know, and the customer comes in, like, oh wow, like like those a lot cheaper than last year. And I look at because I look at their I look at their service from last year, and it was like, oh wow, they like they needed this and they needed this and they needed this. Like they they had a hefty a bunch of stuff last year, but because of that, and because their usage was in was fairly normal, they actually didn't need that again.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

They didn't need a lot of stuff again. And then but but next year they probably will again.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Can how you care for your bikes indicate how often you need a tune-up? Yeah. So basic stuff like just washing and number one cleaning.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

I I I cannot even stress that enough.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Finally understood the saying, because I'm not a horseback rider, uh, ridden hard and put away wet. I I think that's a horse thing, right? But for saddles, okay. Yeah, for saddles and stuff. But like with bikes, you see that all the time, right? You had it, and we've done it ourselves. You've had just a massive day on the bike. You've sweat on it, you have poured hydro, you've poured your hydration fluids all over it as you were drinking and eating. You went through mud, you put it on your car, so it also got that. You get home, and you just hang it up. If you're lucky, you hang it up or you lean it against the garbage can, and then you go inside and collapse. And then a week later you come out and you're like, oh honey.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

So oh honey. I mean, it's a lot of that filth on a bike can build up and it can bake on. Yeah. So I have customers who just never ever clean their bikes. And and so year after year, the bikes just become just grimier and filthier and dirtier, and it does not come off. Like I can't I it does not come off, right? You would you would have to you'd have to get out of like a power scrubber and and basically take the paint off at that point to get the dirt off. It is it is so baked on to that frame and and so forth. I mean, you know, the the the wearable parts are getting changed out. And it and then the bike just it's it is harder to diagnose problems, it is harder to fix problems with that kind of level of filth on bike.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

And when you leave like salt on it, like from your sweat, that can be really corrosive.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah, and and plus you are are reducing the lifespan of your shocks because all that grime and dirt gets down into the past the seals.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yep. So in the end, it just costs you a lot more.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

And when we're talking about cleaning, it doesn't have to be extensive. It doesn't have to be the chain, even we just talked about you know, we a lot about replacing a chain, but cleaning your chain can actually extend the life of the chain too.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Oh, significantly, like double, double or triple the lifespan. Right. Yeah. So what wears those those rollers wear down in in the plates is is grit, is fine grit. Right. The cleaner your chain, the less it will wear down, the la longer it will last. Right. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

And it doesn't to take care of your bike like that, doesn't take a lot of special equipment.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

I mean, that's why mountain bike chains and gravel bike chains last less miles than road bike chains typically. And and less than hybrids typically. Okay. You know, if your chain ever gets wet, wipe it down when you get home and lube it. Okay. Like that is, I mean, people say what is like the the you know maintenance thing I can do. That is the number one thing to do. Also keeping your chain lubricated and not over-lubricated. Because over-lubricating can attract attract fine dirt and grind and create a paste that grinds down the chain. So sometimes it's not even the case that your chain got wet. You need to what you need to clean it because it has now accumulated a lot of filth.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Cleaning the bikes, I have to say, is one of my favorite things to do. And some of the best cleanings I've done where you will be like, oh my gosh, I can't be you worked so hard on this. I did not. I basically sat them outside, I sprayed them down with that pink stuff from muck-off, I let it sit for a minute, I sprayed them with a hose, I wiped down the chain, I dried it, I looped it, I was done. Yep. Like I I didn't even touch it with rags, like I didn't even, you know, scrub at it.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

That's great to do when in in warmer weather when the sun's out because you do want to let the bike dry in the sun when you do that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

Yeah. But if it's not, I will bring I will bring it in to the the living room, and they will sit on two beach towels, and I just let them sit there. And then our kids' friends say, Why are there two bicycles in your living room? Yeah. And the kids go, What? There aren't bicycles in your living room. So let's talk about some of the the things you encounter most often in tune-ups.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Okay, so let's sort of a like a look at a list here of a lot of the stuff I find. We talked about worn chains. Worn chains is a big one. Misaligned brakes, meaning say they they're not contacting, like mechanical rim brakes, they're not contacting the rim at the same time, left, right.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Or they're dragging the tire itself.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Same thing with disc brakes, they're not running through the rotor smooth, or your rotor has a misalignment that needs to be done. Uh worn brake pads, um, rim or or disc, loose headsets is a huge one. Where the fork, where the fork steering tube comes up through, right? That's a huge one. I find that all the time. Okay. Loose hubs, so there's wobble in the hub, and that just needs to be adjusted. The wheel truing, so you know how straight the wheel is running. Tire issues are often common. Loose bolts, find those all the time, or sort of under-torqued bolts. I don't rarely find a bolt that's really loose and was dangerous and about to fall off. But again, this is but those bolts are loosening, so you're catching that. Yep. Oh, on hybrids with a kickstand, uh, I often find the kickstands loose and it's wobbling around. Or they fall down. And that's just I mean, it's just it's knocking around, it's noisy, it's it's it's irritating. Yeah. So those are usually mainly nuisance issues for the kickstands.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

On the tires, one thing that was interesting again during our initial Saturday service from the pandemic was the number of the bikes. Again, great bikes, bikes were doing good, dry rot in the tires.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

In the tire, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Because the rubber just at some point we can't, it just ages is normal.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Yeah, well, during the pandemic, I mean, when we were getting those tire, those bikes that had been pulled out and hadn't been seen, seen, you know, use in forever.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

I mean, dry rot is is a long years and years and years thing that we were seeing. And it mostly occur you mostly see it in the the the gum wall, the tan wall, old tires, old like 26-inch mountain bike tires or or hybrid tires. That would they're those are super common to see that. Now, like if it's not completely, if the if the casing's not just completely fraying apart on the sides, older tires, even though they can look perfectly fine, and they are in a lot of cases perfectly safe to ride, but the rubber has has hardened, and so it's no longer it no longer has grip. Right. And so that alone is a reason to change up tires many times.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

It depending on the usage. My other favorite were the little kids who would come in with just a obvious bald spot in the middle of their tire. Oh, because we'd say, Are you skidding? And they would say, No. Right. And then you would watch them. You would watch them skidding. Like they would, you're like, I want gee, I wonder why their their uh tire is bald.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Right. And then shifting problems, of course. Right. Um, and that's that can be from sticking cables, corroded cables, clogged housing, failing housing. The metal strands that keep the housing together can actually start splitting apart and fail. Failing ends of those of that housing, bent derailer hangers we talked about, problems with the driller itself, loose cassettes. That's another one.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Just wobbly stuff. And that is is that what you call slop?

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Loose cassettes is if you've been riding your bike for years, you're not gonna have a loose cassette. Unfortunately, when I see loose cassettes, it's because another shop had changed the cassette and forgot to put the backspacer on.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah. So it's not right. So that's usually the case. And and I can you know, I'll put the bike up on the stand, and it's just instinctively, and I think it's like every mechanic, you spit. The pedals and you make a shift. Yeah. And that first shift, I can hear the noise of that shift. I could go, oh, that's probably a loose cassette.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

And when I say loop, so loose cassette is that basically the lock ring that holds the cassette onto the hub is bottoming out on the on the free hub itself. So it's not pressing against that last small cog and pressing the cassette onto its onto the to the free hub. And so what that does is there's not any tension on that. And so the the the each cog is slightly wobbling against itself. I mean there's some cassettes out there that are one piece and they can't be loose like that. But most road and hybrid cassettes, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

And there are some services that people would come in. We spent a lot of time on Saturdays changing flat tires. Yeah. And we're happy to do it. But it's also probably one of the things that's the easiest to learn how to do for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Oh, absolutely. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Like from a if you want to either save a little money or avoid going to the bike shop because you've got other stuff to do and you don't want to wait. Um, changing a flat tire is probably one of the I can do it. You know, so that you're really good YouTube videos to show you how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

There's a funny thing about flat tires in that the if you take a small little 20-inch kids' bike with a coaster brake and training wheels and a little fender and the rear tires flat. That bike will take easy two times, maybe even sometimes three times the amount of time that it would on any other bike. Because you have to unbolt the rear wheel, you have to uncouple the coaster brake connection. Sometimes you actually have to take the fender off to get at the the uh chain and the cog in the back, right? Uh these are little single speeds.

SPEAKER_03 41:58

Uh you have to adjust that. The single speed thing.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah, and then when you put everything back together, you have to get the chain tension just right. It is a process. So I charge more for that. That is you just don't expect a shop to charge more for those those kind of bikes to change it to.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Well, and I think that's again, it comes down to remembering that that all you have, we talk about this at the agency also, at the marketing agency. All we really have is our time. Right. And there's only a certain amount of time in the day. Right. So you have to charge a certain amount for each hour, and you have to recognize that some things take longer. It's always the thing that doesn't seem like it should take the longest that does.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

And is the hardest to explain. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

You know, if you're like, yes, this kid's bike, I could change this tire in 10 minutes, and this one's gonna take an hour and a half. And yes, there are other things that go into the costs, right? Like there are disposables, there's gloves, there's few, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

People have to take into account that that with each tune-up, I am also paying for right, gloves, rags, paper towels, cleaners, lubricants, little odds and end cable things that I don't charge extra for. Because it would cost which cost me real money.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

They do, but it would also cost more to try to calculate each little nibbling. Some shops may, some shops don't.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

But they are paying real money for it, so if they charge, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:26

But you try to work that into your pricing to recognize that it's hours plus some of those consumables. Um, but then again, it's it's a thing that takes the most.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah, and the hourly rate tends to be based on incorporating some of those expenses. But it could be that that the shop that the shop is incorporated their their lights and their heat and their air conditioning and their and their parking lot and all that kind of stuff into it, but not the rags and the bloobs and everything, right? Which is usually incorporated often into the tune-up cost.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

This is why we can only speak to what we do to the shop. Right. How we can get ready for our tune-up, because that will be good for the bike shop and for the biker. Right. Right? And number one is clean. Clean your bike.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Yeah, just uh just don't have it, doesn't need to be like washed, but don't have caked on mud.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

This is mostly a mountain biker gravel bike, a little bit. But I actually posted a picture of my bike because I didn't want to shame anyone, right? You had one bike in the shop that was just disgusting. Like it was just covered in mud. And we don't have some bike shops have bike wash centers.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

By the way, some some shops will charge extra if a bike comes in like that.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

So, right off the bat, anyway, I posted a picture of a different muddy bike of my muddy bike, just to say, please wash your bike ahead of time. And that customer wrote me and said, This is because of me as a and I was like, dude, I tried really hard not to own you. Like, I really could have used your bike, and I didn't. So, yeah, clean your bike, makes it easier to diagnose things.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Yes, I mean I am going to clean the bike, but I again I don't also want to have to have a you know mud all over my floor or dried up dirt all over the floor of the shop, too, as well. As I as I get all that off, right? Scrape all that off.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

Knocking big things off. Okay, when you get there, what what's that first conversation you're having with?

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Well, you definitely, if you're having any noises, let them know. Uh probably be asked where you think it's coming from, any concerns you have, if you want if if parts are gonna get changed out and you want those old parts. Oh, yeah, then make sure you you tell them that up front. Right. Um, because a lot of times it is it is, yes, it is it is difficult to get them after that.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

If you don't, okay, that's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Right, because they're gonna go out and recycling or they're in the trash or whatever. And I I know like some people want their chains to do projects with and like old.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Jewelry, yeah. Well, and also if there's anything, maybe if it's a new bike to you, if there's anything that you wouldn't expect or you wouldn't know if it's tubeless, what kind of fluid is it being used? Do you know what kind of do you if you even know? Um right?

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Yeah, let's let's go into tubeless for a second.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

Let's go into tubeless.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

I love tubeless, right? I love it on the gravel and the mountain bikes.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

But tubeless is a little bit of a it is a little bit of a conundrum for for shops in a way. Because of it, tubless can be finicky. Okay. And so if if a shop is setting up a new bike or new wheel or whatever, or a wheel that hasn't been set up tubeless, if they're setting it up tubeless, okay, like I want to make sure I want to get that set up and I want that to sit at least overnight so that I can check in the morning. Oh, okay, that it's still holding.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

However, in some tubeless cases, you need to ride on the wheels for three minutes and it will it'll set up. And if you don't ride on it for three minutes, it will slowly leak. This is getting better and better, but that is still sometimes the case. And so if somebody brings me just the wheels to right, I have no way to test ride and roll on those wheels.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Um you please set these up at tubeless, but you would for the record, my employees regularly look outside and you're spinning around the parking lot riding a bicycle, which is, you know, they say his job is hard.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Yeah, and then and then if somebody comes, oh yeah. So if you're coming in for a tune-up, is help for people who have tubeless wheels to understand at least some aspect of those in terms of what sealant they're using when it was replenished last. Yep. Because it is definitely a lot more time consuming for a shop to have to open up a tubeless wheel. Yes. Like if I'm just adding sealant, right, no problem. But am I what seal am I adding?

SPEAKER_03 48:16

Well, because you can't mix them.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

You can't mix a lot of different brands.

SPEAKER_03 48:20

You can't mix a lot of them. You can't be like, it's fine. Whatever is in there will be great.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Uh yeah, and if I and then if I have to, like my my very top level package will include opening up the tire, cleaning out the all the dried-up sealant and replenishing.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

Getting rid of that slug.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

But that is definitely time consuming. Yes, really time consuming, especially to clean out old sealant. So um, but if I have to even go in there and and take a look and so forth, right? That just is just adding it, it just makes things more complicated. Yeah. Yeah. Plus I yeah, plus I have to to break the seal on that. Maybe it was a finicky setup to begin with.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

Right. Um Yeah, so just the more information you have about your bike if it wasn't say purchased from and regularly maintained by the same bike mechanic, right? Like so if it's from the same shop, it's you said you have notes. Yeah. So if if it's a if it's a bike you sold and you've done all the service, you've set it up and you service it.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

That's the easiest way.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

That's the easiest. It's really the it's a new mechanic relationship. Yes. They haven't seen this bike before. So you want to tell them as much as possible. Can you get records on your bike from your old mechanic? Is that a thing? Like my doctor's notes. Can I get my notes?

SPEAKER_01 49:32

That's a good question. Could I, I suppose I could provide some of the things.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Could somebody export? I mean, that would mean you had to say to someone, I'm going to a different mechanic. Try and go to a new doctor, and you have to tell them that you're going because you have to send your records. But um, but also on every receipt, it does have details, at least for you. When you print out or email a receipt, it shows all the details from the from your service, right? Or at least the parts you used.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Yeah, this is gonna be shop to shop, but you will definitely see like the itemized parts that were used, right? Because if a shop is charging for the part, it's gonna be it's gonna be separate on your receipt.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

But you might just have that one-line item base tune or whatever tune, right? And that's it. Uh it depends on me, but many, many times I am writing notes on on detailed notes on what was done. Yeah. Unless unless there was you know, some something done.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

It was uh it was that bass tuning.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Sometimes bikes come in and they need some little shifting adjustment, a little brake adjustment, and a little headset adjustment, right, and cleaning and drivetrain lubrication, but all that's sort of the normal stuff. Right. I'm not real I I might just put they got this tune. Yeah. Right without any further notes on that. Right. Usually if I found something or I had to change something, all then then I'm making notes on what and why.

SPEAKER_03 51:04

Right. And they do come out on the receipt. I mean, the reality is if someone is determined to keep track of it, they they could, right? Because then which if you ever sold the bike or you moved somewhere, you got a new mechanic, that might be helpful to be able to say, by the way, here's all the records I kept on the bike. Yeah. The other thing is you can't necessarily expect that every bike shop will also service every bike. I mean, let's talk about you. Oh, yeah. Right. So you won't service, you don't service e-bikes. I don't service e-bikes. We make that very clear. Um, but we also just added a wording to the site that basically says Steve the Bike Guy reserves the right to refuse to service a bike that we do not think we can service satisfactorily or safely. Right. And I don't want to I I don't like the bike shame, right? But there are some bikes, we'll say non-bike shop brand bikes, that you just prefer not to service. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 52:02

I like to say that there there's no there's nothing that requires a bike part to actually work. There's certain department store bikes and it and it's getting it's getting better.

SPEAKER_03 52:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

But they would make a part that looks like a brake because it looks like a brake, but it doesn't need to stop. And and that's a that's a big one, brakes. Yes. Right? So the like a bike might come in like that, and and I it'd be like, there is nothing I can do to make these brakes work. Break. And and a lot of times this is like this is a parent bringing in a kid's bike.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

I was gonna say, it does seem to be high.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

And if I don't think that I could make that break, if if this kid lives at the top of the hill and there's a stop sign at the bottom, that's sort of in my mental head. Yeah, yeah. And this kid kids, like, yeah, let's go down the hill real fast, and they can't stop within a a normal like normal rate that a normal bike should be able to do, which a lot of these bikes will not be able to, and no matter what I do to that break, it will not, then that is not a bike I want to touch.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

Yeah, we've talked about winter tune-ups, yes, right. And it's it's very common for bike shops in the winter, they're quiet, so they'll say, sign up for your two-for-one service. We're not judging anyone. You have said to me you don't love to service bikes in the winter. Yeah. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 53:35

There are a couple reasons. So the first is that if it's a customer in a bike that is just getting it's getting used, doesn't matter what time of the year it is. Yep, great, no problem. All right. But if it's a customer who's like, I'm gonna get this bike done now in the winter while it's slow and I can easily get get into the shop and there's no wait time, uh, but I'm not gonna touch this thing then. I'm gonna hang this thing up and I'm not gonna touch it till April or May.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

So it's gonna be sitting in a humid garage or cold, welcome to New England. Whatever, yeah, exactly. Especially in this area for four months.

SPEAKER_04 54:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Like their experience on that bike is not gonna quite be what I want it to be because now that that chain loop, like they can take that out, and even though I cleaned and lubed the chain, it's now squeaky because it's been sitting in all this moisture. And and we have these days here, especially in the spring, where we have these massive temperature changes. Like tomorrow. Today's 40 and rainy. Tomorrow's gonna be 65 and rainy, and I think like and and it's gonna be more humid, and every single metal thing in the garage is gonna be soaking wet. Yeah. Right? And that's what can happen with spikes that are sitting. Then they're gonna take it out, and it's not gonna be the experience that I want them to have on there fresh, freshly. I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 54:57

Right, because they're like, I just had this tuned up.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Right. So so that's one of the reasons. The other is that it can be, depending on our weather here, difficult for me to test ride a bike outside. And I want to test ride everything outside because something that's good in the stand, you can't necessarily it is not necessarily good outside. Well, actually riding, you can't hear things without actually riding it.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Under pressure, under it. Under pressure, under low.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

Yeah, right. And so that is another reason.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

If somebody did get a tune-up, let's say in February, they're not gonna use it until April. Would it help if they kept it inside? Like, would that make you feel better? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

If it's if it's kept in a more climate-controlled situation, then absolutely. Okay, absolutely. But even then, they probably want to apply a fresh coat of of um lube lube to the chain. Lube. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

Okay, so that's too early. Would you say we have a big ride around here, the Pan Mask Challenge, um, which there is a set of riders at the PMC. I adore them, but I I there's the people that train and they're riding their bikes all the time, and then there's this set of riders that about a week before the PMC, they pull their bike down, they bring it in, and they want to get a tune-up.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

Would you say they should maybe get that a little earlier than right before their ride so they have time to ride it?

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Yeah, so so well, so I have this, I had this coming this like just this past week. So I had a woman who's going uh taking her road bike to on a trip to Mallorca. Right? Um and so she wanted to get it checked out before that. Yeah, but she but it it was it's a situation where once I service it, I want her to go for a ride or two to make sure everything is is good. No matter what, no matter where you go, things can happen. Yes. Or or just you you you don't want to get a service and then and then go for that massive 200-mile weekend ride for PMC or instantly pack up the bike and go over, you know, go on your on your cycling vacation.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

Just in case.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Just in case. Just in case.

SPEAKER_03 57:24

I mean, we've seen it. You set up a uh you set up a tent in uh Dover Sherburn, which is just a couple towns over for when the PMC starts. And the number of people that you have taken care of who left the left the start, they rode how many miles is it?

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Five.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

Five miles and something is not working. Yes, and they'll say, I just brought it to the shop. Yes, and they don't even blame the shop. They did not get on the bike.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 57:58

Afterwards to make sure, like they just need to give themselves a little bit of time. You're absolutely that happens.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

They they they had it tuned up and they didn't ride it at all until the event day.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

And it might be stuff like my saddle's a little too high. My it it doesn't necessarily it's not again, not something I'm saying that the bike shop could have done wrong. It's just that the saddle's a little high, the there's not enough air in their tire because the tubeless didn't stick, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Well, there's a there's a good one, like, and that's and that's just less experienced riders who might have had a tune-up and then they don't touch their bike, and then two, three weeks later they go to do the PMC, and you and you, you know, they get to me, and it's like, wow, your tires are down to 30 psi. Uh, you know, and it's because oh, I you know, they didn't think they oh, I just had a tune-up three weeks ago. They were probably topped off then, but that was three weeks ago.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

We do have a friend. We do have a friend. We have to regularly remind that air is free and uh he can pump up his tires whenever he wants, right? Well, it's tune-up time, so it is tune-up time. It's gonna get to the time.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

And April is busy. Yes, April is always busy for all of us northeast shops.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Yep, it's a good thing. It's a good thing. Would you like to get into a scene while scrolling?

SPEAKER_01 59:15

Here's a good one for everybody, and and I have opinions. So the Taipei cycle show is going on right now. Okay, and you could certainly go on to your you know, YouTube or your social media channels and probably see lots of videos of people showing everything they're they're looking at there. One of the things that's come out are 32-inch mountain bike tires, all right, and we and wheels. As opposed as opposed to your 29ers that everybody rides.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

So I I just upgraded from 27 and a half plus me knowing stuff, to 29ers. That took me a bit. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

And you're telling me bigger.

SPEAKER_03 59:54

So hold on, so hold on.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

So hold on. Yeah, yes, and I'm sure somebody. Now, okay. Years ago, somebody built this 36-inch wheeled mountain bike, and then uh focused did this whole video for it for April Fool's Day. Okay. It was a whole April Fool's Day prank. We're coming out with this new 36-inch wheel mountain bike. It was a whole April Fool's Day. This kind of this is not that. This is real. But stop it. Just stop it. Like this is ridiculous. I am, I am, and and I am it's too big. It's just no, just like this feels like uh oh, everybody owns a 29er. Let's make something new, so everybody has to buy a new bike situation. And I am not always taking that position. I was I was very early in road disc.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

And I was very early, like getting it the week it came out of mountain bike electronic sram axis trip trailers, right? And shifting. And I and I, you know, and I had when both those things came out, I was like, this is the this is sort of the future. Yeah. And I got a bunch of them and I could not give them away. Because I was such an I was such an early adopter in a way.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

And I thought it was going to be the next big thing, but it takes years for people to come on. And now if you go on on one of the Friday night mountain bike rides, 25 of the 30 riders have electronic shifting nowadays, right? I mean, you know, but at the time when I got it, it was it was everybody's like, eh, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

And now Because they didn't understand the why, right? Because they didn't understand the why.

unknown 1:01:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

Um, so I don't want to say this is not one of those, but I'm gonna say this is not one of those.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

Well, okay, so here's my initial reaction because I actually was have I I was talking to two riders this weekend, two friends of mine. Petite, petite riders, yes, right, who are already struggling with finding bikes that are appropriate to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:56

That cannot, let's let's be clear, like they cannot, this was actually kind of revelation to me. They cannot find a mountain bike, even an extra small, that they can stand over without it hitting their in the hoo-ha.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

Right? And that is compounded by the 29ers, right? Because we're lifting everything up. I was gonna ask you if you know we can get smaller wheels, right? Like can can people get smaller wheels? And what you're telling me is that they're getting bigger.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

Yeah, I mean, there are full suspension bikes where they put 27 and a half on their smaller frames. Okay, bigger is just something that nobody's asking for. And I'm sure some engineers out there, well, if the rollover potential of the 29er was greater than the 26 and greater than the 27 and a half, then even bigger is even better. But we we have to just stop this.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

Like doesn't that completely change like those fit in frames, or you have to get a completely new frame?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

Oh, yeah, yeah, the frame has to be made for this as well. You can't just put this 32-inch wheel into a frame made for 29ers. I mean, it's just everything is everything is different. And it is already a case where when you look at the average height of people, yeah, the way bikes are designed and made and sized, I would say overall skews definitely towards above average height of people.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

There's no question.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

Because while these two women are petites, they are not outside the norm of people I see regularly. Like I am tall, I am 5'10. And if there's anything I've learned over the years, is it is really easy to make a small thing bigger. It is impossible to make a big thing smaller, right? Right? And the challenge is that smaller people have, shorter people have, to finding equipment is just getting worse because of this bias, this this bias towards a taller person. And honestly, frankly, bike shops not understanding or bike manufacturers. I mean, one of them I was talking to today, and she said that a bike shop said to her, Well, why does why does standover matter? And it's like, how about I tell you every time you get off your bike, I'm gonna smack you in your balls with a with a baseball bat? I mean, that's stand, you know, she can't just get off the bike without concern that if she just bends her leg a little too much, she's gonna whack it. She's gonna whack the top tube.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Yeah. I'll keep an eye on that, but I I just hope it does it gains no traction.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:50

I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

Get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:54

Anything else for today?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

No, let's wrap this up.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:57

Cycling Together with Kristen and Steve is a production of Steve the Bike Guy, an independent bicycle shop in eastern Massachusetts and Sundon Marketing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

Uh, and if you like the show, please follow us on YouTube, Instagram, and um, and Facebook at Steve the Bike Guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:14

You can also like, review, or leave us a comment. Thanks for joining the ride.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

See you next time.