16. New Mountain Bikes, Dropper Posts and Mechanic Answers

Kristin is getting a new mountain bike - a custom built BC40 from Allied Cycle Works. In addition to discussing why Allied is a good fit for the Shop, we discuss types of mountain bikes (cross-country, down country, all trail) as well as some of the component choices they are making while building the new bike. 

Speaking of components, we discuss why dropper posts have become "required" equipment (and why we don't think that's a great idea) as well as answer questions from listeners and the internet on topics including mountain bike suspension, hooked and hookless rims, and bike gearing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

This is Kristen.

SPEAKER_04 0:06

And I'm Steve, and you were listening to Cycling Together, a show all about uh bikes, riding, and riding together.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

And we're on our new schedule every two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 0:15

Every two weeks, yep.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Yeah, I think we'll do that through at least the summer. You're in your busiest time. We're busy every weekend, so I think it is not unreasonable. It is. This is the back this off to every other week.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Yep, this is the peak, the peak time for service at the shop. So it is absolutely crazy.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Rides are starting the clinics are starting, the events are starting, everything's starting. So weekends are gonna get really full. That's when we record. So right.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

Every two weeks. And if we have more to say, we'll just we'll do an extra.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

We feel so inspired. Exactly. So we had a big announcement this week.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Yes, right. Yeah, and a good announcement for the shop.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

I was a great announcement for the shop. We have partnered with Allied Cycle Works to bring in that brand to the shop, primarily their mountain bike and their gravel bikes. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

So they also have an all-road bike and a pure road bike.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Right. We talked about it a little bit in our intro video, but why don't you tell me a little bit about Allied Cycleworks?

SPEAKER_04 1:30

So Allied is based out of Bettonville, Arkansas.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

They started in what, 2016?

SPEAKER_04 1:35

20, it was 2015 or 2016, yes, that's about right. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

So new brand.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Yes, a newish brand, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

So this is a little bit into the kind of behind the scenes of a bike shop. We wanted to bring in a new brand.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

We don't necessarily, especially with everything that's going on in the world economically, we didn't necessarily want to bring on a brand, at least right this second, that required a big that says, okay, please buy thousands of thousands of dollars of inventory and put them on your floor and so forth.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

So Allied really aligns with uh the way we do a lot of business and in terms of their very customizable bikes, and so you can get everything from a full bicycle with uh a certain set of parts that you want, they all offer different uh component groups, or you can get right down to the frame. And even on their on their BC40 frame, if if you have your own shocks or you have something in special in mind and you just want bare, bear frame without even the shocks, you can get that.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

You can get that. I this is not silly because people will say to me, Oh, the thinking about the color, I like the color, I want to like the color. Does that seem silly? And I always say, No, that does not seem silly. You should love your bike, you should look at your bike and have it make your heart go pitter patter. And one of the nice things about Allied is because they're they're painted as they're ordered, they offer a ton of in-stock colors. Yes. So you can really pick the color that you like, or you can have a fully custom color if you have a signature color or a corporate color or something like that. Which I also think speaks to what's been happening at the shop, even with our brand, Ruckus, is that we have a lot of people who like to just customize everything. These are big investments, they're they're toy, but they're also toys, and you want to have some fun. So I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Yeah, the majority of Ruckus customers ordered a custom color, and and everybody there just really liked the fact that they weren't bound to uh particular parts. So they didn't in a lot of cases people aren't making a lot of changes on a bike, but you know, if if you get a stock bike, many times people are like, well, these are not really the tires that I wanted. So they get new tires, so there's that expense, and they switch out the saddle, yeah, and maybe they want thicker handlebar tape. So there's things going on that a lot of times you would get up front with more of this customization.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Right. And we actually first heard, well, I'll I'll put me, I first heard of Allied a couple of years ago when Leah Davison signed on with them as an athlete. She has this beautiful pride-themed bicycle that they made for her. So I had it on my radar a little bit. I'm sure you knew about it before I knew about it. But then Kate Courtney, who we were following because of Scott. Right, because of Scott, because we're a Scott dealer. So we had followed Kate's career, and then she left Scott. Formed her own team. Formed her own team.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

And her bike sponsor is Allied.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, so something about that final piece when we started to talk about what could be a brand we could bring in that made me in particular very happy. Kate's set up a nonprofit that is, as I understand it, to get more kids on mountain bikes, more girls on mountain bikes. So her racing is in support of that, also. So I'm really excited about it. And that means that I got a new bike.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

It does.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

It does. Obviously, I got the bike because we're selling Allied. Right. But also I wouldn't get the bike if it's not the right bike for me. I'm not that good of a mountain biker. I need to, I need to ride the right bike for me. So I want to start with you explaining to me the difference between down country and cross country. And my other question in that is is down country a newer term?

SPEAKER_04 5:52

Okay. Well, we can that is a great question. Thank you. All of these different terms for mountain bikes generally revolve around their travel. So, so cross country was always this sort of 100 millimeters of travel.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

And then you kind of came into like these uh all you have all mountain, and which is okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

See, I'm feeling better because I feel like all of these terms keep popping up, and I basically was like, I thought it was cross country or not cross country.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

Yeah, or enduro. It and and so you're gonna hear all mountain, you're gonna hear all trail. Both of those are in these 130, 140, 150 range. Okay, you get to Enduro, which is uh 160, 170, 180, and then you have downhill, which is greater than that in the 200s. Okay. Okay. So down country is a newer term. And it evolves basically uh as a cross country bike that probably has a little more travel and is designed to be a little bit more downhill focused, like it has more rough and tumble capability hitting rough downhill trails. Okay. Okay. But here's the thing not down country has the term has come in, yeah, and now I think the term is just sort of going out.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

And the re I just learned the term.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

You just learned it and forget it, it's gone. So so cross-country bikes in general have just become more capable. And what a cross-country full suspension mountain bike, which was traditionally 100 millimeters of travel, front and rear. Okay, okay, and in some cases even a little less, yeah. Um those are now just bumping up. So a 120 millimeters of travel is now becoming very normal for a lot of cross-country race bikes.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

Okay, because cross-country race courses have gotten a lot more difficult with technical features. Okay. Bigger jumps, bigger boulders, bigger uh rock gardens, all that type of stuff. And so to facilitate that for the racers that they've been going up in travel.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

In travel. Let me go back a couple would it I want to actually track my progression. So when I got back into mountain biking, I got a black and blue uh spark mountain bike.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

Oh, yes. Yes, yep, they're right. The black and blue one. I forgot about that one.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Right. And I soon upgraded to a different spark, but they were both sparks. The my first two Scott mountain bikes were sparks.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

Sparks. They were the non-RC. So there's an RC version, which is their race version.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Okay. But those were considered cross-country.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

They were still considered cross-country bikes.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Okay. And then we were talking about this. I then moved to the genius at the time, which was a I would call that all mountain. All mountain! Okay. And that had more travel. 150 millimeters. 150 millimeters. Okay. And so more recently, last year, I moved from the genius to uh the a bold Lincoln. Which is considered what?

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Again, all mountain. All might mountain that had one. Trail trail.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Okay. But it was, we were talking about this yesterday when we were taking my new bike out, which is a cross country. Down country bike. So the app the allied? The new allied is right.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

So I would call it down country if you're going to use that current term because of its 120 travel. But as I said, we're sort of getting rid of down country. And it confuses people a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

A little bit.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

The problem with saying cross country is that it's in a lot of it's in a lot of riders' heads that cross country right away means rate, low travel race, and not really a bike that can take the hits.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Is that what they're trying to differentiate? They're trying to take the person who says, I don't want a cross-country bike because that's too aggressive. Not enough travel, too racy. But I don't want an all-mountain bike because that has too much travel, might be too heavy. So they came up with down country. Down country. Okay. And the other thing we were talking about is that even though the genius name is still around, they're still using it, obviously. My original genius and the genius as it is sold today are not the same.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Not at all. So your your original genius, which was a 20, that one was a 2018, that was almost a souped up version of the Spark.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

So very similar, identical frame design, just tweaked to give you a more travel in the back, and 150 versus 120. And then a hundred a matching 150 fork. Okay. Um, and then that it was built, the frame was still built very lightweight, and it was matched to usually Fox 34 forks.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Yep. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 11:20

So that's so right now, Fox doesn't even sell a Fox 34 with 150 millimeter travel. You have to go to a Fox 36, a bigger, heavier fork designed for bigger hits.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

Right? And so, like, and now the Fox 34 is used by cross-country racers.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Right? So that bike was uh different than it is now because the current genius is 150 in the back, 160 in the front, and it that's now just sort of coming up to that almost that it is all mountain, but it's still now pushing the boundaries of Enduro.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

What I think is interesting about that is if you are someone who thinks, oh, I ride a genius, keep in mind that that model may have changed significantly in the five or seven years since you last.

SPEAKER_04 12:17

Yeah, there are some people who had a very top-end older ver old version genius.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

And, you know, in in top spec, that thing was twenty six and a half pounds, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Right? And there's like, why is the new genius, even in top spec level, like heavier? And it's and it's because, well, everything on that bike was was uh beefed up to take bigger, bigger hits.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

Uh the the fork is now a Fox 36, right? And 160 millimeters of travel, not 150. The the frame is designed to take more impacts and hits in terms of uh uh jump landings and so forth.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

And the bold Lincoln that I was riding last year, which I really liked, is very I kept calling it very capable feeling bike, which is an all-mountain.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Yeah, let's call it. Well, we'll call that a trail bike.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

We'll call her a trail bike.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

And sh her travel is 135 rear and 150 front in your case. You were a little usually it's 140 on that particular model, but it's 150 with you.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

So I was a little nervous, I will say, moving to the BC 40, which is the Allied bike, because I knew I was going back to a down country because it's 120, 120. Right. Right. Right. So I was a little worried, but what we talked about was I might not be using all that suspension.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Yeah, we I mean, I knew you really were not going through all that suspension on on the bolt. Yep. It would take a very big hit. I mean, as you know, the bolt like just rides through some things just unbelievably smooth.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Beautiful bike, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:09

Um, and and you're light. So on a bigger hit, because you're a lighter rider, you're also not going to be pushing down on the on the bicycle as hard and forcing that that use of that travel. Right. So between the lesser hits that you take than a more aggressive rider and your lighter weight, you were not using all that travel.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah, but it was I was a little nerve, I was a little nervous about leaving the amount of travel I had on the genius. That's why we went in part to the bold that we did because it was closer to what I thought I was used to. Um but I will say after our first ride, I am cautiously optimistic about her.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

I'm having a last one you had a lot, you you I had a blast. You say you're cautiously optimistic. You had a blast. I had a blast. And I could tell and I could tell the difference on the climbs. You were you seemed a little faster on the climbs. Okay. Okay. And then and then I was watching you on the chunky descents, and it you didn't seem to get phased by anything on that. You know, so within your riding style, I was looking forward to see if you were gonna be more hesitant on on and you weren't. You you just floated through everything.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

She wrote very nicely. I'm having a lot of fun getting very involved in learning all the pieces because I have generally gotten bikes almost out of the box. You know, you might make a little tweet, but this one, because we are building her from the frame, right? I've enjoyed like learning about what parts were going on her, even talking about what what the handlebars are gonna be, what's the cockpit gonna look like? Right. Um, we talked about an integrated handlebar.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Not a lot of bikes have this, but Scots and Bolds do in many cases. And this is a one-piece carbon fiber bar and stem. Right. They're very, very sleek looking, they're very, very light, but you are completely limited to obviously they're a set stem length. Yeah. And and a set, well, width, but that's the width is all you want. You might a lot of times you cut it down. Um, but but in terms of sweep and uh and rise and so forth, that's all set. And if you wanted to make a change, you're getting a you just have to get the whole assembly again. And it's very expensive.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah, so I'm I'm glad we're not doing that. It also means I can put the Garmin mount where I want it. I can the I'm I'm I've had an integrated.

SPEAKER_04 16:40

Yeah, I have one now, and I do love it.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Yeah, and I've had it on the last two bikes, but I'm actually looking forward to I like the setup that we're working on, which is not integrated. So just even being able to make those little choices, yeah. It's kind of fun.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Yeah, so we got you just a bare frame because one, we had a lot of of parts being a shop, and and we had made some customizations to the bold, so those sort of customizations are coming off, and that's going back to stock. Yeah. Um, one of them was uh a set of wheels I had built for you. Um, and then we I also wanted to, whenever we get a new bike like this, a lot of times I want to get the latest version of a part because I need to be familiar with that part.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

So we got you the new SRAM mode of brakes because this is sort of a new thing. Well, SRAM is has moved all of their brakes. We talked about this to mineral oil. Yep. They had one model in mineral oil before, but this is a whole brand new brake system. So I wanted to evaluate this. So let's put it on your bike so we can evaluate it. Um, you have the new RockShocks Reverb dropper, um, Axis dropper. And it's because I want to see how that, you know, that has a completely new battery location design. Let's see how that looks like. It's a little weird looking. Gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

It's my first battery operated dropper. Looks a little weird, but I'm letting it go for now.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

We use the new um the new Fox fork. So the new Fox 34 SL fork. Yep. And that is that comes out of the box as 120 millimeters of travel, but that has the capability to go to 130 quite easily. So that was why I want I wanted to one use that brand new fork to get a ride impression of that. And also, maybe we're gonna we're gonna move it to 130 for you. So so we're gonna evaluate your travel usage on the fork, and then we have the ability to bump that up. Um, which on say RockShox's SID fork, which would be the other one we'd use in this type of bike, that tops out at 120. Okay. So we would have gone to the next model up for Rockshocks, and that's now heavier.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

So that's what Yeah, and contrary to that, the I got a bike last year and I'm getting upgrading to a new bike or replacing the bike this year, we don't usually do this. No. I had the genius for five years.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Yeah. I there's a lot of there's a lot of shop people and shop owners who are just constantly revolving bikes or one a year, or or they're just basically riding a demo out of the shop. But no, we we sort of buy our buy the bikes from ourselves and then keep them for usually quite a long time.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Yeah, I don't think people realize that too, because I do joke. I was saying oh, I get paid you know for my marketing, I get paid in bikes. No, I don't. I I wrote you a check for the frame, I'll write you a check for the different parts. So it's obviously at a discount, but we then hold on to the bikes. And I've actually been asked about this where by customers who say, How come you don't get a new bike every year? And I say, I like to think it's that we're selling quality. Things that that we don't need to be replaced regularly. And I think it also just speaks to our own frugality.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Yeah, there's some frugality there. There's also when you when you have a bike you really like, you don't really have a need to change it. And you and you get and you just you're re you get really good in that bike. And so and every different full suspension bike rides a little differently. And you almost have to there's little swi, slight tweaks that you have to make to your riding style every time you change a bike like that. And I'm not that good. And so it's it's nice just to keep that same bike.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

I think it is too. We you get to know the bike. Yep. It takes you a while to go.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

You can switch more.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, absolutely. But you get to know the bike, we do customize them. It is a process to get it right, to make sure everything's right. And then the other thing is year to year, bikes don't change that much every year. Sometimes they have big years, like when the spark went to the internal shock. That was obviously a big change, but leading up to that, the spark the year before and before and before, nothing had really changed except for the colors that were available. So again, no real purpose to us upgrading. So well, I'm very excited about it. She's beautiful. I did have one of my friends say, You're not gonna be one of those people that's like worried about getting her dirty or making her scratched. And I said, Maybe for a couple of days, but I'll get over it. She's got a beautiful wrap that they put all over her to protect her.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

There's some ride wrap sections, not everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Like it is meant to be it is that first scratch will hurt. I'm not gonna tell you there's already a scratch.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Oh, yeah, you already got a little chip. I don't know when you did it, but yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Was it when that thing popped up? We heard it. Remember? It said we went bing, and I went, son of a oh okay. Well, there you go. It's done. Let's go. Right. Okay, so next weekend is Everwild. We talked about that on the last episode with Jackie, and I don't know how this happened, but I got tapped to lead the fundamentals course for for the women, which I'm very excited about, also nervous. But I started watching, I thought I should watch, I should get a checklist together, I should watch some videos about fundamentals.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

And I was watching one from the Global Mountain Bike Network where the host was talking about getting on your bicycle. Sure. Neil was talking about getting on your bicycle, and he said, and then you start rolling, and then you pop up your dropper and you sit down. And this hit squarely to a conversation. Well, it's not that it triggered me, but it was I keep I feel like we've been having a conversation over the last couple of weeks about droppers.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

Yes, we have.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

It would never occur to me to teach someone how to get on a mountain bike with a dropper post. Right. Even if they had a dropper post, I would not, I have never said to someone, oh, because you have a dropper post, this is how you get on. It's always the same. I've never. I've maybe I say, oh, and you could also. But when I'm teaching the fundamentals of how you get on a bike, which usually starts with, your saddle needs to be much higher than you think it needs to be. Mine is at my hip. And no, you can't touch while you're on your saddle. And I teach them, right? You you basically push forward and then you sit down. Right. Push forward and sit down.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

Which is no different than the road and the gravel bikes and every other bike that does not have a dropper. Right?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:05

Right. Now, mountain bikes tend to overall be higher. So while your distance from the pedals to the to this to the seat is in the saddle is the same, the saddle above the ground is higher on a mountain bike.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

It was funny. One of the the racers that I was working with last weekend, we said, You your saddle is not high enough. And they said, Still, we put it up last week. And I showed them, I rode away and I just started gliding, and I went like this with my feet.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

Woo! Yeah, that you cannot touch the ground at all.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Not even close, which I think was a surprise to them.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Have dropper posts become required mountain bike equipment?

SPEAKER_04 24:50

The short answer is yes. They are required. Required is a very strong word, though, right? My here is my and and this is going to be a generational thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Absolutely. Right? It absolutely is. I mean, I like a generational thing.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

I didn't embrace dropper posts until 2017, 2018.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

When did we go to Switzerland?

SPEAKER_04 25:14

2018.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

2018 is when we that's when I got my dropper. Yes. And I remember watching you install it on the bike and swear at it because it just wasn't going well. And I said, stop it, stop it, stop it. I don't care about it. Well, I was doing a funky cable system. You were doing something funky. I'm not, I'm, I'm not questioning your mechanical skills. But that was the first time I had it. So maybe a better question is why have dropper posts started to become almost mandatory equipment?

SPEAKER_04 25:46

They really significantly help your overall position on the bike for all the different conditions.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

And again, as we we're gonna be coming at this from a an old school type of mentality in that you need to learn certain things before you use this the the new equipment. And for us, you really need to know how to ride your bike down descent without the dropper. Okay? Yes. With the seat all the way up. You you need to know how to go back and forth, get behind the saddle with the saddle all the way up. You know how to kind of squeeze it between your legs so you know where it is and use it almost as a as a as a leverage point with your body, English. Because no matter what, there will be times where you need to do this. It's going to uh uh a sudden drop off or descent is gonna catch you off guard.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

Where you go, whoa! You could come up over a yes, you could come up over something thinking it's a small little like roll the top, you haven't put anything down, and all of a sudden, yeah, yeah, you're going down something steep. So it is really, really necessary that you learn to ride your bike without the dropper post. Right. And then you introduce the the use of the dropper post. And I think that is the best way to be a better all-around rider.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I think just I'm with you. I think just from a safety standpoint, because sometimes the dropper doesn't work, sometimes you miss it, right? You go to hit the the lever and you miss it, and you're down already, or to your point, you go over something.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

I think that yeah, we're absolutely showing our Gen X roots too, as we say. Learn the fundamentals.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

You know, well, we also came from we came from the time where there was no suspension. So my first mountain bike had zero suspension. And you know, and then we f I remember like like getting my first suspension fork and so forth. That was a big deal, but we because of that, because we learned with no suspension, and then with 60 millimeters of travel and a suspension fork, and with two two two-inch tire, 26-inch wheel, two-inch wide tires, you had to learn to be light on your feet, you had to learn to to I call it ride light. Yes, right? You could not just slam the bike into everything. You had to use body English, you had to unweight the bike, and and you and you really used a lot of finesse. And so those of us who learned on that kind of stuff, we have a a lot more finesse to our bike. So that's there's a reason we break less stuff, we never get flats. Um, right, whereas if you nowadays, when people are learning with with a drop post, with full suspension off the start, they are tending to let that equipment do a lot of the heavy lifting, and so they're slamming the bike into things harder, getting more pinch flats, right? Uh going down something with the with the with the seat up is gonna throw them off balance and that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah, and it's a fine line between it was better back in the day because it wasn't- Well, it wasn't better. It wasn't. Well, I think it's important to I I want to make sure that's coming across. The equipment is way better and it is safer, and the trails are better, and the safety equipment is better. This is all better, and there's a little bit, I'm sure, that's gonna sound grumpy, of just you shouldn't drive a car until you've learned to drive stick. And you should be, you know, kids today don't know how computers work because they never had to. I get it, does feel a little bit like that, but there's also it's just making me a little grumpy that I think again you should make sure you know how to get on your bicycle without the dropper post. Yes, yes, without the dropper post down. Yes, you need to be able to just get on your bicycle. So when this dude said, and then you pop up your dropper, I went, no. Oh for the rest of the episode, we're gonna talk about more, we have more questions for you. Okay. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_04 30:15

I am ready.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

One thing we were talking about recently is you were saying generally all bike shop brand dual suspension mountain bikes are good. It's not like back in the day, it's pretty good. Is there anything for someone going in that's that differentiates for you a good mountain bike from a bad mountain bike?

SPEAKER_04 30:38

That's it is a difficult question and to to narrow down, but there is one particular aspect. And so a lot of different mountain bike companies use very similar suspension designs.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

And a lot of that occurred, oh, a lot of that occurred actually around 2014, 2015, I believe was the time frame when a particular linkage called the horse link, that patent ran out.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

The horse?

SPEAKER_04 31:11

Yeah, it's uh it's yes, based on a guy's name. Okay. Okay, a motorcycle designer.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

I was just making sure you didn't mean horse. So horse H-O-R-S-T.

SPEAKER_04 31:19

And and so a lot of companies were like, great, we can now use this really nice design. And they made all of their own little tweaks to it and their and their little changes, but it's overall based on the same design. And there are other designs out there like that. Um, so and nowadays it has it has gotten to the point where everybody has really fine-tuned and tweaked their suspension design, so it is a lot more difficult to get a bad full suspension mountain bike.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Okay, that makes sense, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Yep. But they're still out there. And so the one thing for me that differentiates something that's good and bad is what I call the anti-squat. Think about climbing up a hill and you're putting a lot of power in the pedals. Yes. And now imagine you can really now the suspension should be active, keeping the tire in contact, but imagine you you feel like the bike is just bobbing up and down and up and down with each pedal stroke.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 32:18

And you and you just feel like, wow, this bike is just moving, moving, moving. And my like I seem to be putting a lot of effort into making this bike just bob up and down.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 32:27

That to me is where I don't like a design.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

That's bad.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

The anti-squat value of a design actually has a is a function of also the gear you're in. So and it and this is way too complicated to talk about here, but basically Where would we talk about it? The easier the gear you're in. So if you're in these big cogs in the back, right? Because you're the anti-squat value goes up and therefore it actually resists the uh the suspension actually resists moving.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Oh, so as it goes into an easier gear, it gets stiffer.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

Essentially, yes. So and there's a compromise there. Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

That's in part so you don't lose traction.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

Or you're not using all of your Well, no, it's so that the it's so the suspension isn't sort of bobbing up and down. Yes. And there is that fine-tuning because you want the suspension to work, but you do not want it to work too to bob up and down and be too active, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 33:30

Um, and so and you want that that anti-squat to be less in your in your harder gears because you're probably going downhill, and you want the suspension to be more active, even if you're pedaling downhill, because you're probably you're hitting objects and items, you know, and rocks harder and so forth. Right.

unknown 33:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:48

Okay. So that is basically for me the one thing. A bouncy bike. A bouncy bike.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

A bouncy bike.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

That's actually interesting. So we were looking around to get some questions for you. We'd asked some people for questions that that one you had actually told me about, and I wanted to hear more about. You were talking the car about anti-squat and how it's a bad bike. But I was on the mountain bike ladies Facebook, one of my favorites, and I found this question about bouncing, bouncing around. She said, So I bounce around a lot. I got a full suspension, but I ride a hardtail and I'm still bouncing all over the place. I think she means on the full suspension.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

I threw myself over the handlebars last week. My question is, how do I judge if there's too much air in my tires versus needing to adjust the front or rear suspension? I keep wanting to lower tire pressure, especially in the rear tire, but my boyfriend thinks maybe I should play with the suspension first. Thoughts? Suggestions.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Well, the first thing I am seeing um with this question is that when she says I bounce around a lot, the qu and sounds like her back if she's if she fell over the handlebars. I don't think she means bouncing like we just talked about in terms of the bike bouncing while she's pedaling. I think it means more like uh the harshness and basically going up and down, like bouncing literally off of roots and rocks. Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

It sounds like the back tire in particular is bouncing a lot and maybe flung her over the front of her handlebars. So I don't know her, so we're just making guesses.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

So this is actually a common thing that that people do with full suspension bikes. Okay. One is there's um a little misconception on what tire pressure should be, and some of that's because you look at the people will look at the sidewall of the tire and they'll say, Oh, this, like, oh, I can go up, like it'll say, I don't know, a lot of times it'll say 25 to 45 or something like that. Yeah. Where and the minimum on a lot of times these tires is actually over where you should be.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

I don't those sidewall numbers. Those sidewall numbers, uh, they should, they really shouldn't be there. Okay. Um they are there in some cases a protective measure so people don't go over a a high limit that could potentially blow the tire off the rim. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 36:25

But um, so a lot of people will definitely, definitely overinflate their tires.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

They'll also think that, oh, I have a full suspension bike, so you know, the suspension should be making doing all of the work, and that should make the bike really comfortable. And it is, it is not. It is there is a there is a functioning balance between your tire pressure and your suspension. And when you get the two just right, then it just feels like a magic harper ride. It is phenomenal. And it but tire pressures are usually go way lower than people are are doing.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Well, in this instance, too, and tell me if I'm wrong, it feels like it would be easier to play with the tire pressure than to play with the pressure of the rear shock. Well, the rear shock. I mean, just from a like I can play with the tire easily. The shock, I need a shock pump.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

Yes, but you're not really shocked pressures, you don't really play, you can play around with them in a very tight band, but shock pressure is based uh based uh basically on your body weight.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

So you're setting the sag of the bike based on your body weight, and while you could say do, and this is for a lot of bikes, say 25% or say 30%, say 30% if you wanted a little plusher, you're playing with a very narrow band there, right? And that's really where it should be. And then there are settings on a lot of shocks and forks to play with, but those make very subtle changes.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

Um, so you're it is not like tires, and again So the boyfriend is wrong. The t like again, when you find the right tire pressure, you're going to be now in a narrow band. Yes. But for a lot of people, they could be 10, 15 PSI over where they should be.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

What would you say? Huge. So I'm gonna repeat, the boyfriend is wrong. Right? The boyfriend I can't tell you the number of conversations I have had or threads I've had where they go along the lines of my boyfriend or my husband says, and they're wrong. There's just remember we had the one writer who we did a little clinic about flats, and we were doing tubeless fluid, and with tubeless fluid, you you want to keep it spinning to make sure the fluid does its job. And one of our writers said, My boyfriend said I should just put the hole at the bottom and let it sit with the fluid on top of it, and that's how it seals. And we both looked at her and said, No, and she said, I knew he was an idiot.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

So real real quick on why that is the case is because tubeless fluid tends to solidify in droplets. Yes, it needs to be in small particles, and it and the reason why it doesn't solidify in your tire except over a long period of time is because it's basically in a puddle on the on the bottom when it's sitting there. So the more of the soup, the feel the fluid there is together, the less likely it is solidify. So if you put the puddle over the hole, while that seems like it would work well, it can just then dribble out, and there's so much liquid, it just won't solidify. Whereas when you're spinning, you actually get less fluid, but it's now air pressure's forcing it out into small droplets, and then it solidifies.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Right. I stand by my statement that there are a lot of answers coming from boyfriends and husbands that are incorrect. What is a A proper generally is a proper PSI for a mountain bike tire.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

There are actually some really good calculators out there now to use that have been updated.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

Um to for modern tires sizes and so forth. So they are, and then you enter your body weight and you enter your tire size and you enter your rim width.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

All right. And so, and usually if some of these things are going to ask for your internal rim width, which you're like, well, I can't get that. The tires on the bike. So if you can get the external, if you can measure how wide it is on the outside of your rim, just subtract five and you'll be within a millimeter of your yeah, you'll be close to your internal.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

What's my what's my pressure?

SPEAKER_04 40:48

What's your pressure? Yeah. You are running two 29 by 2.5 tires right now. Yes. And so you usually run very hot, like 1819.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Okay. But the side of my tire says Oh, I we should we should look actually.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

25 to 65. Yeah, I'd be interested to know what the side of your tire says. We'll look it up.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Well, that actually brings up a question from our friend Pete who asked, What are the differences and benefits or flaws between hooked rims and hookless rims? He was wondering, in Steve's opinion, which one is the future? What is easiest to work with?

SPEAKER_04 41:36

Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

So good job, Pete. You made him go oof.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

Oh oof, only and and uh, you know, all these questions seem so simple, and there's always a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

You know, the funny thing is, this was your idea that we would oh, just have them ask me some questions. And I said, all of these, I thought all of these are going to be something where he goes, Well, this is complicated. This is gonna be a complicated answer, but here we go.

SPEAKER_04 42:00

But here we go. All right, so what that's re referring to is on the on the side of the rim, all right, the the bead of the tire catches on to something. Now, it has always been for a hundred years a hooked rim, which basically means that the sides of the rim come up and then they have a little hook at the top that that pulls in. So imagine that sort of grabbing the bead of the tire along the edge. Okay. Hookless rims are straight walls up the side. They have no, they have no little hook, they have no little uh, I should say, like uh um yeah, bend at the top. Hook that that they're just straight.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Finally, a word that means what it means.

SPEAKER_04 42:48

Oh, hookless. Yeah, instead of instead of clip less. I got it. Yeah. And so hook uh hookless rims. Yes, they are really designed for tubeless. You can run a tube if you want. Okay, but you have to use a tubeless tire. And many brands of rims that make hookless rims, they you have to use an approved tire. Well, you run the risk of it blowing off if you don't.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

When somebody asks if a rim is tubeless ready, does that mean it's hookless?

SPEAKER_04 43:25

No.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

So you can have hooked tubes.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

You can have hooked or hookless tubeless wheels. Okay. So, okay, so there's there's actually there's a lot, there's a lot going on here. So a hooked rim can be aluminum or carbon. Okay. Okay. And uh, and tubeless or or or clincher, basically. You know, not not compatible with tubeless tires. Okay. A hookless rim is usually carbon. Okay. And it is cheaper for them to manufacture that. Uh it's just straight up. So the hook on a hooked rim is is it's very small, and and it takes a lot of uh engineering to make that strong enough.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

Let's talk about the sort of the upsides and downsides of hookless.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:21

So hookless rims, because they're straight walls on each side, they actually can make them, well, one, they can be a little lighter, but they also can be a little thicker while being lighter. And they're straight up. So if you have uh an impact, so let's let's say you you have your tire on there and you are you hit a rock and you compress the tire so much that it compresses into the rim. So this is where you would get your pinch flats with you if you had an inner tube in there. Right? Yep. You can still get pinch flats on a uh tubeless system uh because you're pressing that tire into the sides of the rim.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:08

Okay. But a hookless, because those are a little fatter and they're straighter, they tend to not pinch flat as easily. And and they also are stronger straight up. Because all right, and so they can also be a little bit more robust in taking big hits. Okay. Because they don't have uh as thin and as fine of a little hook at the bot at the end.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Is hookless all types of wheels? Road, gravel, mountains? Yes. Okay, yes, all types of rounds. So not just we said a rock, but you could get a road.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

Oh, that yes. Hookless.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

A lot of brands have been going to hookless because it's cheaper for them to make. Okay. Uh, and because tubeless is now becoming so common.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Are the tire manufacturers keeping up with them?

SPEAKER_04 45:58

They are. So the uh European rim and tire organization.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

All right, so the European Rim and Tire Organization. Oh yeah, hold on.

SPEAKER_04 46:09

Let me get this straight, let me get this correct. The European tire and rim technical organization, all right?

SPEAKER_01 46:14

ETRT O.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

Yes, they came out with a tubla standard. So they wanted the rims to be a certain um diameter overall, and they, you know, within a and then within a certain manufacturing spec, because they have to be tall manufacturing tolerances. And then for the tire makers to sort of follow suit with something similar, so that that most tubeless tires will mount to most tubeless rims more often. Because otherwise it was sort of a just you know, it was a crapshoot on whether they would work, they would, they would work together well.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Tire is spelled T-Y-R-E, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

So now, because I do remember a couple of years ago, I feel like it was kind of a crapshoot if a tire was compatible with a a rim.

SPEAKER_04 47:04

Exactly. Yeah, but yeah, you would find some that were either very like really, really hard to mount, yeah to get on, um, or they were actually just they mounted very easily, but then they would not hold, like they wouldn't uh seat very well, like they wanted to sort of pop off in one location because the tire was a little oversized and the rim was a little undersized type of situation. So you had you would every now and then come up with these combinations of tire and rim that just did not want to mate well.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

So do you have a preference?

SPEAKER_04 47:37

I I do.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Okay. Are you still in the explanation phase of this? I am a little bit in the explanation phase.

SPEAKER_04 47:42

We'll get back to that. So, as we said, hookless rims have to have a tubeless tire. Yes. To use them with, okay. And even though even if you use a tube inside, inner tube inside. They also, because of there is nothing, there is no hook there to grab the tire, they do have an upper pressure limit, or the tire can blow off. And that is in a lot of cases, say let's let's talk about like road for a second. That is generally around 72 PSI.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Not a hundred, like when we were kids.

SPEAKER_04 48:17

Oh, 120 was like 120.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

You just you just kept on pumping.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

And so there have been some instant like some some problems in the pro Peloton where some tires have come off and and so forth, and and then they're like looking at, oh, did they overinflate it? What happened there, and that type of thing. But you can uh you can over easily over inflate a uh tubeless tire on a on a hookless rim. So down. And so either the tire will blow off, or once I have seen the carbon uh, and there's a carbon rim, the lamination of the carbon blowout. There is a big push by some cycling media that basically let's get rid of hookless, let's just go to hooked. It is it is safer for all. There is there is no need to worry that you have an approved tire. You know, it is just you know, there's there's very minimal risk of of roll of blowing off a tire because of pressurization. It's just safer.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

And so we just saw a mountain bike race recently where the woman the whole tire came off the back of her well, yes, but she she might have gotten a flat and then it and then it rolled.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

Oh, okay. Right. So we can't say that at that okay there was a reason. I mean, we're using you and I are both using hookless rims on our mountain bike tires. What? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

I are there are there some bikes where it would it like mountain bike it makes more sense, but road bike it doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

So I would say on mountain bikes, I I don't I don't worry about it whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

You're you're not you're not gonna overinflate to 100.

SPEAKER_04 50:01

Anybody on a on a 29er is shouldn't really even be going over 25 psi. You know, so okay, the the pressures are so much lower, and you know, on a mountain bike you're almost certainly tubeless nowadays. Okay. Because it makes just so much sense. That really hookless is the is is there's no problem with it. If you have a hooked ramp, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Okay. Um, and actually on the hookless, especially if you're gonna do carbon, then I feel like the hookless is a stronger rim to take those impacts.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

But on the road road and gravel. Road and gravel.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

Um there is a really I mean, so again, you and I are both using hookless rims on our gravel bikes. And the two of us, we never we never go over 40 PSI. So I'm often I'm often hovering around around 30 and 40 if I'm doing a lot of road. So again, low pressures, we're never gonna gonna flirt with higher pressures.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

Gravel probably okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:07

Uh, I would still say gravel absolutely okay, but I would still say there's an argument to have hooked rims there. Okay. And then road, uh, yes, this is this is where a lot of other cycling journalists sort of feel the same way I do, is that they really it should just be hooked. There's just there's no reason not to. You don't deal with pinch flats on road at all. Because you know, you're because you're not impacting obstacles. Uh yeah, I suppose you could hit a a nasty pothole.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

I have gotten a flat Yeah, no, I was thinking about um is it Tom Pickcott?

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Yeah, pot Tom Pickcock, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Is he on Scott now?

SPEAKER_04 51:48

He's riding Scott, yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

He's riding Scott right now. He uh I just saw a video of him trying to jump his road bike onto a picnic table.

SPEAKER_03 51:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

And everyone was like, Don't break the new bike, Tom, don't break the new bike. He made it up there, but I was laughing because I was thinking he could get a pinch flat. You play with your bike like that. So do you have a feeling about the future? Do you think that we're gonna go totally hookless or hooked, or do you think we're gonna end up in kind of a hybrid situation?

SPEAKER_04 52:23

I I think it's still a hybrid situation. I think all aluminum rims are gonna be hooked.

SPEAKER_03 52:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 52:29

And um, and then carbon I think is is really going to be it is probably gonna be all hookless for carbon mountain bikes. And gravel, I think, is gonna is gonna just go at the whim of the manufacturer. Okay. Um and although it because it's cheaper to make, it could just end up hooked. Okay. And then for road, um, you said hookless was cheaper to make. I'm sorry. Yes. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

So hookless is cheaper to make. So I think that I think that they the manufacturers, it may all in gravel just end up going to to hookless for carbon for carbon. And for road, a lot of big names are making hookless rims. Zip and Envy, um, to name a couple there, and it's just I however yeah, I think that has to go back to hooked.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Um that's something that like the UCI would decide.

SPEAKER_04 53:38

And you know, it wouldn't surprise me if they if they decided to do that, or the ETR uh E T R T O. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

Um, if they decided, you know what, this isn't working for Road, and and they made a standard that had to be hooked for road.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Yeah, I could see and I could see the UCI deciding that just from a safety standpoint, just like you can't do certain kind of tucks, you can't, you know, you can't do the super tuck, right? You can't do that thing. You you can't use certain equipment. I think uh it wouldn't surprise me if they decide that kind of so for Pete, we've explained the differences, I think we've explained the benefits, we've just said that the opinion of the future is and do you have is one easier to work with than the other?

SPEAKER_04 54:29

No, not really. Okay. Yep. I I I would say that sometimes on a hooked on a hooked rim with tubeless, it can be a little harder to to pop the rim off, um, which just in a way shows you that the interface between the tire and the rim is a little tighter and stronger.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Is it harder to get the tubeless on a rim hookless? Is it harder to set up a hookless rim the first time since there's nothing for it to just hook it? It's just magic. It just works.

SPEAKER_04 55:09

Yeah. Yeah. I I would say there's I there can be complications and problems with all the variations, it's not the easier part of the other.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Alright, I have another question from my mountain bike ladies. Question for anyone who has gotten shorter cranks to help with knee pain. Did you also get a smaller chain ring? I'm thinking of going from 170 millimeter to 160 millimeter cranks, but don't know if I should get the 32T or get 30 T. So she's talking about the cranks on the Yep. I guess I didn't realize you could do that. So you can get different size codes.

SPEAKER_04 55:46

Oh, you didn't know you didn't know that. No. Oh, okay. I didn't. Yes. So the crank arms. Uh, which is basically a measurement from the center of your bottom bracket, your center of your of your rotating axle on the crank to the center of your pedal axle. Okay, so that's sort of the leverage of your of your arm of your crank. Okay. And they, yes, they come in different sizes. Um, depending on the type and the um brand and so forth, it's either in five millimeter increments, or there might be a section where it's in two and a half millimeter increments. Okay. Uh she she was thinking if I go, she goes down to from 170 to 160, which 10 millimeters is a big jump. Okay. And um, and she also was thinking about going from a 32-tooth to a 30-tooth uh chainring on her front. So she is going to make her easiest gear easier, and she's also gonna make her hardest gear a little easier, which means she can't go quite as fast at the same cage. Okay. Now, on a mountain bike, because this is that's what she's talking about here, um, almost all mountain bikers do not use their hardest gear to the full speed extent that they can go. Right. So it's usually not a problem. So by shortening her crank, she's losing that fulcrum leverage ratio ratio. Yeah. Right. So there's a thought where if her easiest gear right now is just easy enough to say get up the hardest hill, she commonly goes up, right? Since she's losing a little bit of that of that leverage ratio, she might need a little easier gear, in which case that 30-tooth chain chain ring change will will give her that.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

Okay. And the reason she's changing the shorter cranks, she said to help with knee pain. So that's changing the angle that she's that her knee is it is.

SPEAKER_04 57:41

It's it's basically at the top of the pedal stroke. Now you can think of is that your your your knee is not coming up as high and you're and you and you're not um you're you're not your leg isn't bending as far.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

I mean, is that the primary benefit that when she's she's shortening it, so it's her leg isn't going to bend as much at the top of the stroke, and it's not gonna reach out as far at the front of the stroke. And so that change might help her knee pain.

SPEAKER_04 58:19

Yeah, and also a lot of people do it for their hips as well because you're not you're not flexing the hips as much.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

I'm always fascinated by the amount of little changes. I know you said like 10 millimeters is a lot, and it is, but it's also it's teeny. And it's amazing to me how much of a difference that can make. You know, having I I say I've become quite the princess in the P because you will move something. Like I know right now with my new mountain bike the cockpit's not quite right because my thumb was having a little bit of pain, so we'll move something, and I know you're gonna move it like and it'll be it'll be better, right? Right? Or on my road bike I would be riding and oh, it's just it's a I'm a little too my saddle's a little too high, and you go boop, boop, and oh, it's better. Perfect. It's so fascinating to me how those little changes and how many things you can tweak. Even even just that you can move a saddle back and forth on the rails, which should not be used for the reach of the bars, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 59:30

Okay, yes, some people do that, they're like, Oh, I I I feel like I need to be closer to my handlebars, so they'll move their saddle forward.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

Oh no, okay.

SPEAKER_04 59:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Yeah, it's just to me that the but even that, that the stem that a lot of you know, oh, I'm just gonna get you a smaller stem, a smaller stem, or a longer stem.

SPEAKER_04 59:48

Like last yesterday on our ride where you said, Are you Yeah, we were evaluating your reach to determine if the stem we were using in testing was the right length.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Right. And you said, or are you, you know. Too much reach and it the stem is already tiny. And you said, No, there's a shorter one. Then I thought that's great. But it's it's great that it's those little things. And sometimes you don't even realize, like we decided my reach right now is almost the same as yours on this new bike. So maybe, maybe, even though I'm comfortable, maybe we try to see if I would be more comfortable with it slightly shorter, because I am slightly shorter than you. So it's a little funny that we have the same reach. It's just fascinating. Yeah, I mean it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:36

Three inches different in height and very similar torso. Torsos.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

Yeah, but it's just interesting. Again, it's I I find it fascinating at the shop to see the little tweaks. Where is where's the cleat on your on your shoe? And I'm gonna move it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:54

Oh, yeah, that can make a huge difference. You're right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

And better. I think it's fascinating. From our teammate and friend Nancy, she gets, well, she said, I have and get a lot of questions on gear ratios and frame limitations. Specifically, what combinations work best for fast slash flat versus climbing and how slash what riders consider to optimize for both and how frame geometry plays a role, especially in gravel. Can every bike take every cassette?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

For the most part, we're gonna exclude the new SRAM transmission drivetrains because you need a specific specific uh UDH hanger frame design for that. Okay. But otherwise, you can put almost any gear ratio you want on any frame.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:53

Really?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

It really isn't it's not the frame that's dictating that, it's the parts you're putting on.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:00

Yep. There are there's a little bit of there's a little bit of limitation in that theoretically, well, not theoretically, literally, that a lot of component companies have a minimum chain stay length for some of their parts. Okay. And um, and that's just so they have enough gap between their their crank and their cassettes and so forth. Okay. And so there would potentially be some conflicts there that you could also push the limits of in some cases, but I I can't I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

I think some of this maybe is just about what's the right combination? How do you how do you decide what the right combination is for how you're gonna ride a bike? So you built a lovely green Scott gravel bike for our friend Alex, and she rides a lot of flat stuff, and so she got two in the front, more of a we'll call road configuration. I my gravel bike, I went to a very, very climby gravel thing, and I came home and I said, I just needed one more, just one more, and then you put the Saram Eagle cassette on mine, so I can basically that girl is built to climb, but I have compromises.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:32

You have compromises in that you have a bigger step between each gear. Website I talked about last show, gear-calculator.com. This would show you how fast you can go with your gear ratio. Oh, it does? Yes, and so you know, you top out if you were doing a hundred RPM in your cadence, I don't think you're topping out until you're 38 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

No, and as I have often said, then I'll just slow down and I'll just stop pedaling. You just go it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:00

That's my that's my decision on that bike, and I love it, but it's not right for everyone, and I think that's what's I think that's the flatter the terrain you you ride, yes, the more you're probably gonna want a two-by system with with a tighter cassette in the back, so that you still have that easy climbing gear, but that you also have smaller steps between each gear. Because the the flatter the terrain, the more you wanna it the more difficult it is to find that optimal cadence. You know, when you just you'll get a half percent grade here, and you'll get a 1% grade, and then a 2% up. So you sort of have these very, very um shallow grades of up and down, and so finding that optimal cadence, usually you're only gonna want a change of a tooth in that cog. So you want to have a 14-tooth cog, and then the next one is a 15-tooth. Okay, right? Whereas if you're on a one by with a SRAM Eagle cassette, you might have a three or four tooth jump between them. Yep. So you're you know, you're going long and you're like, I want it a little easier. And you shift one, now it's a little too easy. Yes, yeah. So I on the rail trail, for instance, on my particular setup, I f and with my particular body and how I ride, I find myself going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth between these two gears. Because one is a little too hard and one's a little too easy. So I agree, that is the compromise that I see on my more rolling the terrain, the more you're gonna be frequently changing gears, and and you just tend to notice the issue less. Yeah. Right. So here in New England, which is constant rolling terrain, which is why most people are choose one by around here.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

Where we had a friend visit years ago, and um she lives in the Midwest. She said, I never shift ever. Just drive, you know, right. She she would be training for triathlons, and she said, I could go, I can go days without shifting. And I just because it's all flat, and I think I I shift like it's going out of style. There's I I'm very rarely just in one gear for any extended gear.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:22

I I should look because the because with the electronic shifting, it keeps track of the number of shifts. But um now uh I'll have to look for a gravel ride. I know on a mountain bike ride, like a 10-mile mountain bike ride, I could shift 600 times.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

I believe that. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely believe that. So again, it's just cool because there's no one size fits all.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Alright, well, we're gonna wrap this up. Cycling Together with Kristen and Steve is a production of Steve the Bike Guy, an independent bike shop in eastern Massachusetts and Sundon Marketing.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:57

Uh if you like the show, please leave a review or share with a friend. And for show notes, links, or leave a comment, question, or topic suggestion, visit cycling together.bike. Uh, and you can follow the shop on Facebook, uh, YouTube, and Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

You can also see some snippets we pull out from these shows into what I call STPG sprints. They're reels and shorts. No one needs to see her shorts, so they're sprints, uh, on YouTube and Instagram. Thank you for joining the ride.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:26

Okay, we'll see you next time. Okay. And and you almost would think, well, there's nothing to keep the tire in. How is this gonna work? Like my prayers and my my tire is just gonna to blow off.