19. Why Your Wife Needs The Better Bike

Kristin and Steve hold a mirror up to Steve's own bicycle purchasing decisions as they discuss something they've observed in the Shop – riders who have really (really) nice bicycles and gear, who may not spend quite as much on their partner's bike.

What may seem like "rational thinking" can often lead to a spouse or partner failing to embrace cycling, or giving up quickly, due to discomfort, discouragement and failed expectiations. Using personal experience, they discuss how a "better" bike or components can lead to a better experience and, hopefully, a happier rider.

They also discuss Steve's first impressions of Kristin's new BC40 (speaking of better bikes); Shimano's new wireless XTR Di2 drivetrain and while answering a viewer a question about chain lube on new chains, also discuss chain wax.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

This is Kristen.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

And I'm Steve, and you were listening to Cycling Together, a show all about bikes, riding, and riding together.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

We have changed our venue because chaos reigns.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

We were outside last time and we're outside again.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

We were not outside last time. We did a test outside and never had it go live. This is our re-record of that show.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

That show never happened. We're outside because the kids are home from college. Well, one kid is now home from college. One kid came home from college and just left today. So it's just chaos. Every room is chaos. Yeah, we've been tripping outside.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Very nice out here. There might be environmental sounds. The birds are chirping.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Yep. Environmental sounds. Jets.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Jets. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Anyway, that leads us into the fact that it is a very, very, very busy time of year. The rides have started.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Into the active riding summer season. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

And is it just last weekend?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Just last weekend.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Last weekend we were at Raid Rockingham.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, Raid Rockingham is um part of it's a gravel ride. And uh they do a bunch of the series. They so they have Raid So and So uh of generally by the I believe the county of which they're in.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Oh, is that what it is?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

So I think this was Rockingham County, New Hampshire. And we did it last year and we liked it a lot, and I had done it previously in 2015. So ten years ago was the I did it before. Um just but it extremely we had talked about earlier in one of the other shows about you know w the value of some of these rides as they get more expensive and so forth, and certain expectations, and just a very, very well running.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

This checks all the boxes, checks all the boxes, it has excellent food at the rest stops.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

It had um Yep, great food at the end.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Well, yep, but at the rest stops it had they had grilled peanut butter and bacon sandwiches, which hit the spots so so beautifully. The route, which looks like a lot of road on the map.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

This is definitely the most road of the some of the gravel rides that we had to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

It has some climbs, but it's not extreme. They're not trying to push the extremities of it until the very end when they have you do this little climb, poppy climb up to the end, which is only enjoyable because our teammate Pete is faster than us and he's already waiting and he's yelling. So he's a very good judge.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah, he's up there, he already has his beer in his hand.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

He's cheering us on. So good, good route, good support, good food.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Marking, course marking, good course marking, good, good parking organization at the morning and check-in, good communication, uh the band at the end, the beer, the food.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

It's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

It's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Yeah, we liked it. Here's the question How often do we go back to a ride like that one?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

See, this is one of those cases where I'd say twice next spring or next, I should say, late winter, when we're starting to look at the ride season, like we wouldn't hesitate to go back to this. At the same time, I think that we'll say, okay, well, what else is out there? And there's nothing really in the schedule, then we'll probably go back to this, but I'd also look at some of their other rides.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Because when you have a good ride organizer, yeah, it does a good job. By the way, they gave away buffs this year instead of water bottles, and I just think that they do have a lot of people. People should give away things that are not water bottles. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you like that buff. I did like the buff, I'd take socks, I like pint glasses. I just feel like I have more than enough water bottles, and I don't need a t-shirt. Right. I don't really need anything. I actually wouldn't mind if they asked me if I would like swag and they don't even reduce my price. They could just say, and we'll donate it to a local nonprofit. Yep. I think that would be okay too. Yeah. But I did like the buff. I like buffs. Yeah, you like buffs as well. So we had a busy day. I can't even believe you did it because we moved our daughter into her apartment this morning and moved our son's stuff out of his house, and then we came back here and I collapsed. I'm not gonna say I took a nap, but I might have rested my eyes for a minute.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

And you went out for a mountain bike ride. I was as tired, and I I don't know what you took it out of us today, but I had in my head the whole long drive back that I was gonna do this ride. I was gonna one test your bike on some of the local trails. Yes, and also sort of a final check of your one of your women's ride routes to make sure there were no new blowdowns and everything was clear for that.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Good man.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

So, um, yeah, and then when I got back home, I was like, ugh, I've got four and a half hours of driving in me today. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

But I'm interested to hear what you think of the bike. So this is we're talking about Wanda. She's my new allied BC 40. I'm gonna go on the record that I think she's my nicest bike that I've ever owned. Yeah, I think she's she's built for me, and I love her. I think she looks great. I think the suspension is right for me, that 120, 120. But what has been most surprising is that I have been able to conquer some of our riding technical areas that I haven't in the past, and we're still trying to figure out why. Like, what is it? Because I want to know. I just want I want there to be a logical explanation, and you've kind of been like, well, it could be because of this or that. But what I'm really interested in is what you thought of her because today was your first time to really take her out for a spin.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

We both ride the same size because you're 5'10, I am 6'1, so we both ride a large. I could ride an extra large in many cases. So all I had to do was move the saddle up to my height.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Which you could do easily because she's got a wire less drive. Because it has a wireless driver pose.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

So there wasn't any dealing with any cable issues there and making slack for the cable. Uh the handlebars are a little low for what I would want. So if I if I if that were my bike, I'd probably have a 15 to 20 millimeter riser bar on that bike.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

But she's not, so right.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

But it's not. And you're lucky I let you try her. Right. And then, of course, you've been complaining. It's this is one of those things that happens all the time where there's one little thing you need to change, but you get to the end of the ride, you put the bike away, you forget about it, and then you get on the bike again for the next ride, and you're like, oh, I forgot to do this. In your case, the the tension release for your clipless pedals is a little low.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Yes, I have been. You know, the the thing where people say, What if I can't get out of my clipless pedals? That has not been the issue for me. I've been popping out, like I'll pull really hard and just boing, out come, which is not a big deal, but you're right. I will say, we should adjust these when I get back. And then you forget. Totally. Until the next ride while you're in it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

So I did pop out a couple times because they are way too loose. Yeah, they're too loose. Okay, so they're on the lightest tension.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Because somebody else said, Well, maybe you have somebody on the ride I went on on Friday when it happened to me, said, Well, how old are the cleats? And I go, dude, it you know there's just a box of cleats kicking around my house. These cleats could be a year, they could be ten. Who knows? Because Steve, it's well, you know what I'm saying, though, but that can be it. The cleats can wear down a little bit. It it was just funny when I we realized how many spare parts you have kicking around. Right. And you also made a recent upgrade, change to her in my tires. So we had moved my you built you built me my wheels over the summer.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yes, for your previous bags. For my previous bike. Yes, which moved over to the Allied.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

And they had what on them?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

They had Maxis uh 2.5, and they were you had it, you had DHFs on there. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

And then you sh you changed her shoes.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

And what did you put on? So same wheels, different tires.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Same wheels, different tires. I wanted you to try a faster rolling tire, especially now in the summertime. Yeah. Uh when it's dry. So I put on my I had a set of my Maxis 2.4 aspens. Okay. The aspen is we'll call it a racing tire, right? It is a very, very popular racing tire. Okay. And yeah, it it I tell people who are racing, those tires are free speed. Right? Okay. And there's other, there's other brands out there who make racing tires, and they are. Over something chunky like the the the Maxis you had. Okay. Uh the DHFs, they these roll so fast. So they also dropped 830 grams from your bike. Which in which non-gram speak is which is um one point eight pounds, one point nine pounds, of course. 1.8 probably. Yeah. A lot of weight. Okay. Noticeable.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Um so So anyway, you rode her. So you rode her today? Yes. For the first time. Nobody there to restrict you on your speed.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Except for one guy who got in my way.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Oh!

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, I know. I know.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

We're calling out names. Uh what I I just want high level, what did you think of her?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

So it's been a while since I've been on a cross-country-down country bike.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

And oh, because you've been riding the Lincoln Bold, and then you're riding the genius now.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

The genius now.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

And especially with uh faster tires. Okay. So the bike was definitely fast. Okay. It was a little more nimble than my bike.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

There was a noticeable difference in the the steering because the head tube angle is a little steeper than mine. Okay. Mine's quite slack. There was a little get you getting used to that. I went out and I hit one of our newer technical trails. Yes. And I was not, I'd had a couple minutes of warm-up. I was not feeling that great.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Pine thrill?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Pine thrill.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Okay. For those who listen and know where we of where we speak.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

So I was not, I I I came around and I said, I'm gonna do pine thrill after I've gotten warmed up. Yes. Because I want a good accurate test and comparison. But I didn't do that. I did a I But then I just went on it. I just went on it. So and so and in the right in the route, in the in the pine thrill course, I was I was like, this is I'm doing fairly well here, but I'm clearly not hitting this at my best.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

You know, I my legs were heavier.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Did you jump her? Did you No?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Oh, I did go off the jump. Yes, I did go off the wood ramp jump. And it was fine on that. So as it turns out, okay. Uh Strava says that I tied my fastest time ever on your bike.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Feeling like you weren't doing that quick.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Correct, yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

She cool.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah. She's she's so it is a fast bike. I could I could definitely take it out when I'm better warmed up and clearly set a PR on that.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Right. Well, it's funny you say that because I have been popping medals randomly on Strava, where I don't I do feel fast on it. Not fast like I'm trying to be fast, like fast when I'm with a group and I look back and say, I should probably wait a second because I'm leading this group. That happened to me on Friday a couple of times, and fast by time, clearly, because Strava will say, Oh, on this route that you do all the time, you're now second.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Best time. So effortlessly fast. To your point that she she's and I've done pine thrill somewhere around 50 times.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I don't know if I've ever done it with fast tires like the aspens. Okay. I believe I have done it with my old Spark, which is a downcountry bike. Okay. So the question is, did I do do it on the aspens with the spark or not? And of course, if I did, the trail would have been really brand new and not running as fast. Yep. So it's harder to compare there. It's hard to compare. It's clearly obviously faster than the genius.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yes. And so we're going to we're going to take a break because pizza's here. But when we come back, we're going to talk about some of these things as they relate to this bike. But the topic is why your wife needs the better bike. Yes. Because I'm fairly sure I have the better bike now.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

No, I have the better bike.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

But this is a great topic because we see this all the time where the spouse They don't get the they don't get the level of equipment that mokay, most of the time it's the husband, right? Let's just say it. But it can be it can go both ways. The most experienced rider in the couple, they get themselves the nicest equipment. Right. They say, My my my spouse here, they don't, they don't need that much. And then and then there's a chicken of the egg. Do they not like everything riding as much because they have shipping is the right thing?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

And maybe my bike is not nicer, but it is definitely a bike that for the first time has really been built for me.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Alright, let's get into it after the break.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Let's go get some pizza. Okay, we're back and we're fed and we have a light on. Look at us.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

We do the twilight is coming.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Our neighbors are gonna look over. Like, what is happening? As it is every now and then, because we usually record in the front room, one of the front rooms of our house, when the blinds are open and the lights are on, and you can see there's like a camera. And I think, what what do the what do the neighbors think is happening around here? Okay, so we are going to talk about why to buy your riding, your new riding partner. I don't want to genderize this as much as possible. We can't maybe a nicer bike than you're inclined to. Right?

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

But we do recognize let's some of the scenarios we've seen at the shop. One is up a gender on this one. I do find that many times women and in particular moms seem very reluctant to spend money on themselves to the point that they will buy their kids, not necessarily from us, a really nice bicycle. Then they'll come in and say, I have a hundred dollars and I need a bike to keep up with my child. And the thing I usually say is you're not gonna outgrow it.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

I mean, that's a big thing. I don't want to shame anybody, but we talk about like how much to spend on a bike, and I'll remind them that they will not generally grow out of their bike like children do. And they always it's always a laugh line, it's always where that's like, oh yeah, you're you know, yep, you're totally right.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

And we're gonna talk in our conversation here, we're gonna talk about a lot of high-end parts in some cases, but all of this does trickle down, and we'll try to get to that in terms of the overall quality and level of what you're looking for, and so it doesn't necessarily have to be the high-end, but it has to be a certain functionality, and that's uh and so so just it applies across the board there.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

The second scenario not to call out one of our our customers, is the very well-intentioned spouse who buys a bike for their partner without said partner being around.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yeah, that happens too.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

So we had we had one where he was very excited. He had bought his wife a bike, actually, two, because it was like buy one, get one free from our little.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Yeah, that was in the uh a couple years ago during the Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

And you and he were in the shop, and she and I were out in the driveway and we were looking at the bike, and she said, I can't get on it because she was older and and not that flexible, and it had a it had a she said, Can't I have a bike like I used to have, a ladies bike? And I said, Do you mean a step through? You know, where it has the and she said, Yes, and it just it's so hard because she felt badly that he he was so excited. He was so excited, so excited. So we talked about maybe some workarounds like a dropper post for for just a basically commuter bike, but so that's number two scenario. Yeah, in your enthusiasm, buying a bike without consulting with your partner, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

And that's uh that's uh just a simple design feature that you might not think about.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

He wouldn't because he's a very serious rider, you know, rides a lot, rides.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

He has a very nice road bike, he has a mountain bike, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

He wouldn't necessarily think of these were these were cruiser bikes. These were not cruiser, but they were hybrids for using on the on the get the it was a logical bike for him to buy for himself. It's just that he didn't include her in the conversation or the or the picking.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

So, you know, I I am uh had and have been guilty of this exact thing we're talking about over the years. Where since I was the one coming into the relationship as the rider, and I would spend all this money on myself for all this nice bike equipment, and then I would be getting and then I'd be putting together or getting you bikes, and they wouldn't necessarily be up to the scene.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

So that brings me to the third one, which is I'm not sure she's going to like it, so I don't want to spend too much on it.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

And this you were definitely guilty of. Oh, absolutely. The situation in particular was you had I was getting into Cyclocross, so you had done it for a year or two. You had a really nice carbon focus. You bought me an aluminum focus. Yep. I put yours, I picked them both up one day at a race, and I said, What the hell? Yours was so much lighter than mine.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah, significantly.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

It was significantly lighter. I mean, these were both just kind of well, I don't know about yours, but mine was basically out of the box as it came. Right. Right. And that's the first time we really talked about it because I said I say this with kids' bikes a lot that ironically the littlest kids have the heaviest bicycles. But in this case, too, you said the same thing to me, and I was like, Well, Steve, uh I'm likely not gonna like it as much if I have to take this thing off like lighter seems better. Right. Now we're gonna talk about when we get to what we mean when we say better, what you did, because you didn't buy me a new bike, but you did make it better. So that's the scenarios Number three is I'm not sure if she's going to or they are going to like it. So I don't want to spend too much money on it. And the third funny one that I have seen a couple of times is can we share? And I'm not anti-sharing bikes, but it's when it's two riders that are just built completely differently. Right. In fact, someone from the cycling industry recover posted the recovery group posted that someone came into their shop and she said, My husband and I want to sh an e-bike to share. I'm five feet and he's five ten.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah. Yep. No, it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Um there's also the I remember somebody saying, I think I want to get a gravel bike, but then my husband wonders if he can borrow it. He could also use it, but in the winter, and you're like on multiple levels, no. He's significantly taller than you are. It's not a winter, it's not a fat bike, it's a gravel bike. But he doesn't get it. I mean, I I guess you know you know, we're three inches apart.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

I would say that's around the height difference that you can both use the same bike. Even you might be actually one might be a medium, one might be a large, but you you could do it. Well, like you four inches is doable, and that's about that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Right. I mean, you said uh you're on the cusp where you could ride an extra large, I'm on the cusp where I ride a large but could ride a medium. Like we're both, so we're we're in that gray zone together. But even then, there are adjustments that make my bike slightly smaller than you would have it set up if it was the same frame. Right. Okay. And it's interesting. I did do a little research. Would you like some research? Oh, I would. But spending. So I found a couple of articles. One was from lendingtree.com that talked about how women and men spend money differently on non-essentials. And basically, men are more likely than women to splurge. So about 61% of men are more like are likely to splurge on something. 43% of women. They also said for men, well, for both, clothing was the number one thing that people splurged on, which I thought was funny. Clothing. Clothing. I mean, I guess we splurge on clothing if you think about how much money. There's those funny memes that said, My husband told me to wear my most expensive outfit so we could go out to dinner, and she comes down in all lyra. Oh, yeah. Because that's my absolutely that's my most expensive clothing. For men, after clothing, they spend money on hobbies and tech gadgets. So I would say bikes fit both of those things. Sure. Where women tend to spend first clothing, then beauty and grooming, and then hobbies. But then there's the other piece of this, which is, and this was from another article that said that women in general have 13% less free time than men. So if they're gonna spend money on things, is it gonna be on something that they maybe don't feel like they can they have time for? So they're bikes. They like bikes. So it's just interesting. It's interesting to get into the psychology of bikes. Yeah. Okay, so how do we make when we talk about a nicer bike?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Let's talk about let's talk about the focus. Let's yeah, let's so and let's go with three look we can talk about three bike categories the road, uh cyclocross slash gravel, and then mountain. So you mentioned the focus, let's talk about that cyclocross gravel situation. In cyclocross racing, part of the whole race is picking up your bike, lifting it up, and running it over features or upstairs or up steep climbs.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Uh which is why it was crumpy when I said yours is so much lighter than mine.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Right. But we didn't replace it. What did you do to it?

SPEAKER_00 24:09

I put on different wheels. I cannot recall if I built those wheels or if I just got different the stock wheels on that bike were really, really heavy. And I think we probably dropped, I would say a pound and a half in wheel.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yep. Uh then we put on I changed the crank set. Yep. So you had you had SRAM 1x11 speed shifting. You probably had a rival rear derailer, which was fine. That wasn't no change there was gonna make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

It's so convenient that I can't fact check to any of this.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Right. So I think we changed the crank, changed the wheels, okay, changed the seat post. Okay. And I don't believe the tires, but maybe.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

But the it was night and day when you just lifted the bike up. That that that sensation of running with the bike, like of racing with it, hopping off, picking it up, running over barriers, just it was night and day because it was so much you just you lightened it significantly.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

And the lesson on that one, it wasn't necessarily that I needed quote unquote a nicer bike, but I needed you to maybe put on some nicer parts to unweighted. It was still aluminum, right? It was still not the the top level, and and I'm gonna say it was very close in weight to yours. It really was by the time by the time you had done your magic. So, yes, so to the point, Steve Brandt has done it to me many a time. Okay, and is weight always a thing that's a something.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

No, weight a lot of times is actually not that it is not necessarily the most important feature. So in cyclocross, yeah, weight weight and shifting so shifting ease and accuracy is probably your two most important parts of that.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

In gravel, it was gonna be the tire selection, and sort of the c the overall comfort of the bike. Yep. And and then again the shifting.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Well, let's on the weight thing, to finalize on the weight thing. That's another one that I think is up to each rider.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah, weight doesn't matter as much. Weight matters in cyclocross.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

It matters a little less in gravel, it matters a little less in road, and it matters even less in mountain in many cases.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

I know that I agree with you on that one only because Wanda is so light. So maybe it doesn't matter in riding her, but as someone who has to put her on the top of my car, I'm appreciating that she is lighter.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Right. In fact, so it it is it is you're right, there's a consideration, it is not, it is how you live with the bike. Yes, because it's that's what I'm saying. As yours, yeah, because you may not notice on a steady climb, on a steady off-road climb, two pounds difference on a mountain bike, right? But then you go to get to your car and you have to put it in in your case, you have to put it on top of your car and you notice it a lot.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

I put it, I I noticed it so much that because I put it on the top of my car, so I realized that I hadn't unratcheded the the the wheel strap, and I had her in one hand. She didn't have her front wheel on, but I was holding her literally in one hand while you ended up while I unrated it, and I thought, oh, this is a light bike. This is a nice bike. This is nice for how we live, which is I do have it up on the top. So so weight doesn't not matter.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Right. And then out on the trail, you have sometimes have to lift it up over fallen branches and trees and so forth.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

So she's she's sweet. Okay. Gearing.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

The gearing.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

You and I, you and I definitely had some conversations with my various gravel bikes where I just would say, I just need one more gear.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Yeah, sometimes it's not the component group itself, it is the range of gears you have.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

So sometimes the the big issue is that you don't have your spouse on the right gearing range. Right. So you might have uh a, you know, a a one by eagle system on yours, and meanwhile you put your your wife, I'm just gonna say it that in that regard this year. You're gonna say it on say one by eleven with a 42-tooth tooth cog. That like they used to be. Okay. Right. So here you are spinning up in your 52-tooth cog, and you know, well, why can't you keep up back there where you know she's she's got a 42.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

So I see and I see this.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

I see, yeah, I see this.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you never argued with me, but we would talk about I just wanted as big a climbing gear as possible, and you just finally you were like, okay, let's let's put the eagle on. Let's give you that big, big gear.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Yeah, this is years ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah, it was years ago. I had done, you know, you notice I had done rooted in Vermont, and it was like crazy oxblood red grade showing up on my on my garment, and I just couldn't get that, I couldn't turn the crank anymore.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

And I think Vermont throws those 20 plus percent grades at you.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Yeah, exactly. And I I mean, I'm a strong climber. You upgraded me to the bigger, just one more big old dinner plate on the back, and I I she's built to climb. Yeah, and that's actually it's it's funny because I have a lot of friends I ride with, mostly Road, who, you know, hate hills, and I'm riding with them with that bike, right? And so I'm just tootling up these hills because they're not like that around here. And of course I'm strong. I'm not gonna diminish my, but also my equipment is designed to help me climb. And I don't think always that we as riders understand that a bike is not a bike, bike is not a bike, is not a bike, gearing is not gearing, it's not gearing, that there are these are tools in our toolbox to unlock our potential.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah, I think at this point, so SRAM, when they came out with their Explore group sets, they were they are based around a 10 through 44 cassette. And this is their gravel group set, which is a not bad when you pair it with a 40-tooth chain ring up front, which is what their standard configuration is. It's better than one-to-one. It is not New England ready, in my opinion. It's not Vermont ready.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

And so I think you were on that explore group set, and we're we needed to say, nope, we're gonna we're gonna put the mountain bike rear derailer and the Eagle 1052 on your bike.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Not a thing where it's like, well, she just needs to, I just need to work out more. I just need to get stronger. There is a point where like I'm not getting short of me starting to really lift weight. I'm not getting stronger, but we've got the tools that can help me maximize how I ride. And that's the other thing I think that sometimes people forget is that men and women are physically different.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

There is a difference, right? Yeah, absolutely. And some of the strongest riders I know have come to me after rides in Vermont, New Hampshire, and say, I'm broken. We need something easier.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Exactly. I just need something to help me do what I'm doing better.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Yeah. We can talk about electronic shifting.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Yes, let's talk about the shifting itself. So this is a big one. This is a big one. I know you're a big believer in electronic shifting.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah, so let's talk about the high end, then we'll trickle down. This is where I think a lot of times the and I see this, the husband has the electronic shifting, but the wife somehow doesn't deserve it. Even though doesn't need it. Doesn't need it, right? Even though it's one of those cases where it's way easier to use for smaller hands. Uh let's talk about like road shifters to start with. So on Shimano road shifters, the the brake lever itself is what is one of the shifters, and that has to have this massive side swing. And it's Shimano does make some little smaller hand versions of these. Not many bikes have them. And overall, that is that is a much harder feature than pushing the button. So I definitely see uh women who come in who are struggling shifting with that, and then you get to mountain bikes and with the trigger shifters, and smaller, weaker thumbs have a harder time pushing on pushing on those. And this is where I'll try to do things with with certain mountain bikes, putting in uh the the polymer slick cables, making sure that the housing is optimized with no kinks as much as I can, which gets worse and worse and worse as companies put all kinds of bends in them into certain frames. Yep. Uh but but anything that can reduce the shift pressure on a mechanical shifter is is just beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Right. And as one who does have I'm we always say I'm 5'10, or they have little hands. You have little hands. I do have little hands, I wear small gloves. And I always had problems with the big swing you were just talking about. Always hurt my finger by the end of a long ride. My finger hurt. Mountain biking always had trouble. If not with the shifter, the dropper always gave me trouble because the dropper needed such a oomph that I would feel it. And so you did bring me to electronic shifting on my mountain bike, and I immediately felt an improvement.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Immediately, immediately, yes, and now I have it was almost like uh you like night and day. You know, you you yeah, you bastard. You've been running this, you've been you and you've been running this on your bike and you haven't given me this. See, this is where, right? Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

And now I have the the electronic dropper and I love it. Right, and now you have the I really did maybe No, I didn't not understand because you had gotten me the Wolf Tooth remote.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Yes, so Wolf Tooth is a light, it's called the light action dropper remote. And it does make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

It made a huge difference last year, but it did reach the point that we were making a new bike build, and I was like, I think I moved that light action dropper from bike to bike from bike to bike to bike. I was like, I don't care what you put on it, but I need that.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

I don't need it anymore because of the dropper. But yeah, it was a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Yeah, and I had the remote, and in and in this case, because Suriam came out with their new wireless dropper, yes, significantly less money than it used to be. Okay, but it doesn't come with a remote. And but I had the remote, and so it just this all made sense to get you that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

So it's a really good example that just again, physically there may be differences that could help.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Ergonomics of the bike is a is a big thing to look at. So if we trickle this down off of the expensive electronic shifting, yes, this is where getting a certain point in the a certain level of the parts that shifts smoothly can make a big difference. So I'll see let's just talk about maybe a couple who has more entry-level bikes. So the husband will have Shimano 12 speed Dior. Okay, but then he got the wife, like a cheaper model that has micro shift. Okay. And micro shift. Right, and so right. Um which is clunkier and and harder to shift and and ergonomically the shifter buttons are not great and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Well, there's even some brake levers.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Oh, and then brakes. Right?

SPEAKER_01 36:32

That break levers on, say, a gravel bike or I mean all the bikes, where you need to be able to adjust them because I can't reach. Again, I make tiny little fingers. So if you don't, if you so you want a group set that will let you adjust those levers. Otherwise, in mountain bike, what happens is someone with small hands like me, I'm gonna grab it with more fingers.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Since I can't reach it with my index finger, I'm gonna grab it with two. Yep. Or even three. I've seen three because they don't feel confident because they can't reach it. And I've seen you look at brake levers and say, Unfortunately, I can't do anything about these, these are not adjustable. And others you'll be like, Oh, yeah, we just go boop, boop, boop, and they bring them and they draw them in.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Right. So, yeah, you know, I'm glad you brought that up because I think this this is something I discovered on your bike today. So, this, I mean, this is bike is is pretty darn new to you, and and is really like one of the first times I've taken it out to give it a shakedown. And this is where I think this is where it's beneficial if the more experienced riding partner can ride is able to ride.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Right, assuming there's not a huge height.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Yeah, height difference, right. When I was riding your bike, no, so you've got your levers close in, yes. So closer than I would want it, but that's perfectly fine. But I did notice where the natural part of where your hand would go on your grips, and then the natural extension of your finger, your brake levers are in the wrong spot.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Is that why I'm getting this this way?

SPEAKER_00 38:14

I don't think so, but we're we're gonna be going out to your bike and readjusting things.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Well, see, that is exciting. That is that's great.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yep. Yeah, yep, and and and it can look it can, and I know it does. I know it looks fairly good as set up right now. Yeah. Until you kind of got a little rowdy on the trail, and then I started to say, oh, nope. Yeah, this is this is not gonna work. Okay. And even compensating for what your hand size probably does.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

But that's another example of maybe a lower group set, a lower component set of brakes might have not have an adjustment. No, most. Or do they all now?

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Yeah, most do. That that issue comes down to some of the the very bottom level bikes with mechanical disc brakes and some of these mechanical levers that they put on them.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Uh that uh even them, even those sometimes have reach adjust.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

But even a thing to just ask about, just to as you're looking to make sure there's enough adjustment for that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah, and a lot of hydraulic disc brakes, a lot of them don't do well with the reach adjust. Oh. I mean, the reach, it does adjust, but as you bring it in, a lot of a lot of disc brakes have a naturally long throw till the engagement point.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Which is which is no problem at a I don't wanna I hesitate to say normal, but sort of the the stock reach of where the lever is. Yep. But as you bring the levers in, you can't actually make the bite point any quicker. Oh. There are some tricks that we use in the shop to attempt so, but but overall. It can be a problem. So now the levers are getting really close to the bar and they can then hit your knuckles. Depending on the shape and the like the model of the brake and the shape of the lever and so forth. So that can be an issue on certain brakes. Okay. For s for small hands where you need to bring them and reach really far in.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Because I do like when we talked about the brakes and you were adjusting them, I like to the minute I start squeezing, I want them to start braking. I don't like a lot of squeezy your brakes.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

You have the new SRAM motives, and I wasn't sure about them at first.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

But actually I I think they're quite good. Okay, good. Yes, I I would really like them if the reach was out to m to my reach. But I think they I like the modulation feel, I like the bite, I like the smoothness of the lever. So overall, I thought the brakes were quite good. Good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

But they need to be adjusted for you.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yes. We also have suspension, specifically when we're talking about mountain bikes.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

And I know there have been a couple of situations at the shop where, say, in this case, I will say an experienced rider came in. His wife was riding with us. They bought a new mountain bike, but he immediately said, But we need to upgrade that fork. Yeah. And and and they did. Yep. Why? Why did why did you do that?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Why did he want to for mountain bikes? This is a big one.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

So he gets big props because he was it was not you. He was like, This works great, but she's gonna need X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Right. In general, we're gonna make a generalization here. Yes. That though that the wife is lighter. And and if you're quite light, you know, let's let's say under a hundred and let's just say under a hundred and fifty pounds. Okay. Okay. All right. In that in that range, then suspension has a harder time absorbing smaller bumps.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Because we're not heavy enough to activate. Because you're not heavy enough to activate it. I'm just gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

The cheaper the suspension, first of all, the more what's called stiction there is. Yes. So that is the that is the friction that you have to overcome in this in the system for to just to get the legs to basically start telescoping and moving. And so you have to overcome and so the heavier you are, the easier it will be to overcome that stiction. Yes. And the lighter you are, the harder. And so that is that is a big thing with entry-level suspension. You on the on the very entry-level side, like a front fork is gonna have a so let's say well, most of the front forks on the entry-level side are by Sun Tour.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

And they're almost all have a spring inside.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Springs, by their very nature, can be very plush, they can be very small bump uh compliant and quite good. In fact, there are spring upgrade kits for high-end air forks in some cases. The problem is that the overall quality of that fork is quite bad, and so the stiction is very, very high, and the friction of the spring itself inside the leg is is sort of high, and so that fork takes a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

It just needs a it needs some weight to just do its thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yes. Okay. Every now and then I will come across one of their models, and they make so many models, that feels great. And I there I you can't really see any construction difference, but there they there have been ones out there that have felt great. Yeah, we had a we had a Scott addict that we had sold, and that fork was that felt yeah, that was a good phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah, and this was the one I'm thinking of, I'm fairly sure, was a rock shock's fork.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Now, this one was a rock shock's fork, yes. So it was an air fork, it was their bottom level, and we did yeah, upgrade that fork to the next level up. And again, that's a both a small bump compliance issue. The other thing is that the the stanchions on those are thinner and flexier. Now, this sometimes doesn't matter depending on the rider, but overall the the tracking of that front wheel with a with a flexier fork is is worse. Uh and again, you get better, stiffer, nicer forks as you move up.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

But it's a good example of how it it didn't have to be the nicest bike. No, we he didn't upgrade the whole bike. He took he looked at the bike and acknowledged it needed something nicer for her. Yeah. And upgraded that at the time.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Yes, and I and I have, you know, there are cases like that where a bike, an entry bike, especially say, is has good specs overall, except why did they do this and this?

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Well, just why that one? Right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

And so uh yeah, and and so sometimes you can just you always want to look at the price points. Yeah. You want to say, if I just go one model up, am I getting what I want to start with? Okay. Right? And then because that makes more sense. Or do I could do I get this bike and then it's just not much money to get to to fix those two things. Right. Now forks are expensive. Yes. So that doesn't always make sense.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Yep. But uh But we talked about how the highest level aluminum bike, say in this in the in the spark range, the highest aluminum bike could actually be a nicer bike by components than the lowest Right, carbon.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Carbon.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

So just well, just make a carbon. You know, it's not a just default they should have the nicer bike, but it's just to show that adding upgrades, thinking about these things can make a significant difference in in a rider's experience, which ultimately is just about getting someone to ride because there's nothing sadder than hearing, you know, she got the bike and she never rides it. And and then you're always like, well, why? Like, why doesn't she ride it? What's going on with that? Okay, wheels and tires. We did talk about this with my um focus that the wheels it came with were heavy. What makes them heavy? Is it like the hub? It's the everything they put rocks in them.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

This is also another one where you see a big one where you see the discrepancies between the husband and the wife. Okay. Because the husbands all the wheels are something that everybody likes to upgrade, right? And get and get really nice wheels. Okay. So that so the guys all get themselves really nice wheels for their bikes. And I think they never even think about it for for their wives. Some of them do, but I mean this is and interesting. It is a place where a lot of bike companies skimp. Oh, because the they the customers are not gonna necessarily notice it. I mean, you can feel it in the overall weight in the bike, right? But they don't know that the wheels themselves are part of that that weight issue. And and it's more than just weight, uh, it is also the bearings. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

It's um well So that's like some of the rolling resistance, like if they if they Oh, absolutely. I mean, we talked about the wheels on my on Wanda, that they roll the whole thing, rolls nice, the tires were the final piece of them.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

But they well, you have DT Swiss hubs. I built those wheels.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

You built those wheels, I'm not saying everybody's gonna get but the point is she's speedy without effort, right? Right, which has made the experience a lot more enjoyable, but also leaves me less fatigued.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

Yeah. Right, because I am working less hard to get to where the weight, so like on a mountain bike, there is constant decelerating and accelerating. So the weight of the wheel, the weight of the rim matters. It definitely is felt. That changes with different types of riding. Yeah, so a road bike, once you're not you're not accelerating as much, so the weight of the wheel, I don't want to say lightweight wheels don't feel good, but they do, yes, but it's not quite as noticeable or important as a mountain bike or a cyclocross bike. So a cycle cross, it is constant, like it is nothing but slowing and accelerating, slowing and accelerating. Yep. So um, yeah, so so this is where the guys get the nice wheels and then and the women have maybe the stock wheels. Yes, right? And yeah, so this is I I really see it is disappointing on a lot of man manufacturers on the wheels they stock. The rims are super heavy. Okay. The the spokes are well yeah, in particular, like this was a I I just had a trek come in, and the spokes were bladed, okay, but they were clearly not stainless, and they were all rusting. And and then I looked up, there was actually a symbol on the spoke heads, and a lot of manufacturers put their little uh insignia on the on the on the spoke heads. Yeah. And I found this website that shows just like dozens upon dozens of the manufacturers, and this and this one was in there, and it was like, we don't know who made this. So they clearly just found the cheapest maker of the spokes. Right. Right? Um, and then the hubs. The the hubs are really there's no there's very little justification to me on this. There are some really there's some very nice, inexpensive hubs out there. Yes. Made, you know, well, and we'll call them generic in a way, but they're quite nice. And then there are these just paperweights that a lot of these big brands are putting on their bikes, and they are insanely heavy with horrible bearings. Really? Yeah. Yeah. It it's it's really discouraging.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

It's very frustrating.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

And then even beyond that, so you have the wheel and then you have the tire. And the I mean, when I told my girlfriends this week that you had taken nearly two pounds off my bike just just replacing the tires. Well, let's And I know those tires are are racing tires, and they're but right. Just the idea, honestly, I don't think it had occurred to them or to me that two mountain bike tires could weigh that much difference.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Oh, yeah, it really was a huge difference in tires. It really didn't. It really didn't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Um, it was it was very surprising to me.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

You know, a a 2.4 racing tire like the Maxis Aspen compared to a 2.5 Maxis Minion.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

And especially and you don't even have the heavier casing on the minions, uh, that is a pound plus. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Yeah, I you're case is close to a pound, but not even not even in the yeah, of what how to lighten a bike.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

And when you put that on the outer edge of a wheel, that makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Now I noticed riding your bike tonight that while they were fast, they the the sit the traction isn't the same.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

So so clearly they're not the same, I should suppose, as my tires right now, which are uh a lot meatier than those aspensions.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

So there's a little bit of a compromise there. But at the same time, as I'm flying around these corners, I'm saying to myself, yeah, she's not going this fast. So right now in the summer, these tires actually are quite good.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Would that also impact, say, climbing, let's say, like a big rock face or something? Would would I want if I lost a little traction in the tires, could I possibly lose a little traction going up something like that?

SPEAKER_00 52:11

On rocks, a lot of times it's not the tread pattern, it's the rubber compound.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Well, it's funny, even as I said that, because there has been on that pine thrill that we were talking about, which is an advanced root trail, there are say, let's say, six elements that I have been unlocking, right? The getting into it is steep, and there's uh one area that is like just roots, there's no dirt as far as I can do, it's just roots and boulder. And then this last one was uh it's a it's a steep rock, steepish, long-ish, difficult rock to get up.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Yeah, rock face to get up, yep.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

And I got up it Friday for the first time. It's the first time I've tried it with those tires.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

With those tires, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

So it's interesting. I asked the question and realized that I performed differently.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

That kind of feature, the tires are not they can be the the difference, yes, but it is not because of the tread pattern. It is it is because of rubber compound. Now your rubber compounds are the same-ish between the two.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Yep. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

So that can be a function of the geometry of the bike, you know, the the the front end, where your bars are now in relationship. Okay. Uh, you are actually a little bit lower than you used to be. There's a lot of factors going on there, and of course, in this case, weight can make make a difference because this is a lot of body English getting up that rock.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

Yes, and so having a lighter bike is one more kind of benefit to me. I love her. We can just kind of recap this in terms of how how is this actionable for a cycling partner that is looking to buy things for their for their for their spouse.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

So the the first thing is you want to think about I wanna if you really want this person to like and enjoy riding, don't necessarily say to yourself, Oh, but are they gonna use it? Right? Maybe I'll just get them something cheap because they might not use it. That's a that's a very big catch-22.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Well, it is a catch-22 because it's the you buy them something and they kind of like it, but now you have to buy another thing, and in the end you're gonna end up spending more than if you had bought the the the better bike to start. To start. And I and let's let's imagine they don't like it and you have to sell it.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Is it easier to sell it a nicer bike?

SPEAKER_00 54:47

A nicer bike? Yeah, usually. Maybe and it's not necessarily always the better bike on paper. Sometimes it's the the right bike based on features.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Yes. Maybe it's better components.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Yeah, so you want to make sure that again the brakes the brakes are gonna be ergonomically right for that person, that the shifting is light action, no matter what it is. Yep, that oh, the brakes are powerful enough.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

So powerful but easy, but easy.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

So so hydraulic disc brakes on a mountain bike should be one finger, so they should be able to use one finger, and they should, and because they might not even with that one finger be able to pull as hard that, but they want the power there, so it might even be counterintuitive if like let's say you're running a 180 front rotor because you find it enough, you actually put your wife on the 203 front rotor because she doesn't have to pull that front brake as hard to get the same amount of power, even though she's lighter, yes, things can make it make it easier. So little little things like that, and then just consider the overall weight of the bike in in general in your price point. See if there's not a if there's a big discrepancy between different models, there might be. Yep, a lot of times there's not. Get something that the the best thing you can afford that you think is going to really promote the riding.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Yes, I like it.

SPEAKER_00 56:19

Not hold hold them back, not hold them back. You if you have super easy gearing, then she should have super easy gearing. And don't be afraid to make small changes, such as on a um on a gravel bike or even like a road bike. So on a gravel bike, a lot of them come with 40-tooth single chain rings. If it's a one by, I've thrown 38s on yours, right? Or on a road bike, you could actually, if it has a standard compact crank set 5034, but but the m it's maxed at the back. So let's say Shimano, a lot of those were maxed at 1134s um cassettes. Well, you could actually, there's some things sometimes you can do in the back, but often you can put on a small even smaller gravel-sized front crank.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

So um changes the changes.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

So then instead of a 34 for the small ring, it could be a 30 or 31. Uh that gives it easier gearing, right? If that's if that's the issue. So there are there are things you can do to many bikes to fix problems.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Here's what I'm gonna say don't surprise your spouse with a bike. Surprise your spouse with a trip to the bike shop to pick up, buy it, pick a pick a bike, yeah, right. Like I think that could be it's really fun to think about your bike, to think about a purchase, and that way they're picking the right bike for them. Yeah. So awesome. All right, well, we have two things before we wrap up. Number one is seen while scrolling, speaking of components, there was a big, big, big, big rollout. Kudos to the Shimano publicity crew because my entire reels was of feeds of reels was just uh the new Shimano XTR shifting shifting electronic shifting. So take it away, my friend. What have they done?

SPEAKER_00 58:19

This has been in so long time coming here. So sh uh Shimano has basically let SRAM dominate the mountain bike market with Axis electronic shifting for years upon years upon years now. I want to say I got my I got I got SRAM Axis on my mountain bike the month it came out, and I believe that was 20 nine March of 2019.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

So it's been a long time, and so so all Shimano had in response to that is their mechanical uh group set, and all of the pros that they sponsor have been using the mechanical. Now this this surprised me.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

They had electronic shifting for their own. Well they did.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

No, no, they so so Shimano had electronic shifting. Okay, they had DI2 in XT, they had XTR DI2. This existed, but it was well, it was just wrong for mountain bikes. Okay. They had no battery solution, their batteries were in go inside their seat posts, and then which is a problem with dropper posts, and and and at first cross-country riders were not using dropper posts. Okay. So it's only actually been in recent years where that's happened. So then they came up a way to put the battery inside the steer tubes of the forks and and and or in the down tube, but it was always this not great solution. Okay. It was stuck at 11 speeds, it was outdated. Okay. Right. Um, so they finally came out with wireless electronic shifting. Okay. Right in their top spec. Now everybody expects.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Oh, so it's really only one they're very, very top.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

And it's way more expensive than the nicer than the nice SRAM component group set. Oh, if you buy the full kit,$400 more, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

$400 more?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you get the whole thing, the whole kitten total cranks and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

Yeah. So it's a lot more expensive. Um, what you're gonna see out there, it it is faster. Yes. So it is not faster than SRAM's first generation. SRAM actually they're shifting slow down with the latest transmission group set. Oh. Because it shifts based on the mapping of the cassette. Okay. So which gives it that more under load shifting ability. Yes. And so you're gonna see people out there comparing the shifting speeds, and they're gonna they're gonna take they take the derailler and they put them together. Yeah, they put them together and they go up through the and they shift all the up all 12 and up and they go shift all 12 down, right? Oh, look, XTR is faster. Do I it is, but do you ever shift like that? Do you shift through all gears every single 12 up and down as fast as you can? No, no, you don't. So what I've seen in real world world back-to-back routing tests is that the the reviewers say, that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:19

I've seen people running it into rocks and it kind of bounces up and then it comes back. Same thing. But isn't one of the things with trans not to get defensive about my transmission, isn't transmission one of the things about it is that it's hangerless now, and so it's super tough. Like what's the difference?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

So I would say yes, it is hangerless. I would say that this was XTR was probably in development for a long time. Okay. And it it initially, well, it was probably predates the UDH hanger and the whole switch from the industry to that hanger and then SRAM's sort of bait and switch from that to introduce transmission.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

So it I would say it's a lost opportunity by Shimano not using the UD8 UDH direct mount, which is open, which is an open standard, and I believe there's a patent out there by Shimano. So this almost feels like their first gen system, which is is the same shifting speed as SRAM's first gen shifting system. Um but I would bet that in a few years we're gonna see a direct mount option.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

And the battery is a little different where it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Well, it's inside the derailer body.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Inside the derailer body, but it still needs to be taken out to charge? Or is it it does. Okay, because I feel like I saw something that was like, it doesn't need to be charged or I I've seen some weird headlines and I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

I only the only thing I saw is that somebody said it lasts around 210 miles. Now it's very difficult to say to put mileage on a mountain bike because it all depends on where you're riding and how much you shift. So it really should say how many shifts. I mean, a 10 mile ride, I can shift 500 times.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Yeah, no, absolutely. So like it's going out of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

210 miles, though, seems very small to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

That that does not seem like a a long battery life, but I could be mistaken. You've never tested I've tested I tested mine I tested my my the first time I got it, I tested it from 100 to dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:44

And I'm gonna have to look back on that. I'm gonna have to look back on that. It was a long time though.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

Okay. Alright, so that's what's new.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

So that's that's what's new. I I mean I I like it. I think it looks nice. Okay. They're they stuck with an aluminum crank, but Shimano is the king of awesome aluminum cranks. Oh. So it's a it's a beautiful piece of machinery.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

Um have you seen it physically? Have you gotten your hands on the phone? So we will we may return to this when you get your hands on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

Yes. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

How do I get on that PR list?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

You know, this is one of those funny things. How do I get on the list where the where the online bike reviewers have their hands on these things for months? The people who actually sell the stuff, I didn't even know it was coming out.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

I'm a P review.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

I'm sure there were some rumors about this, but uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:38

Steve, you're a you're an online reviewer now. You know, so embrace your YouTube-ness. Speaking of, Yep. We've gotten a couple of comments on our YouTube reels, which is super fun. So I'm gonna bring this one up from Doyle, who said, I enjoyed this video. This video was about lube, it was about chain lube, dry or wet. And he says, I wonder what you think about the chain lube that comes with new chains. Does that affect the way you should clean it? Should you try to remove the heavier lube?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Okay, this is a great this is a great question. What you're saying is they come out of the pack slimy, they come out of the package covered in a lubricant. That lubricant is there to prevent the chain from from rusting in the package. Of course. You know, it is being it is being shipped across the ocean in all that salt air, it is being then trucked through humidity and so forth. It would rust in its package without it being covered in lube. So that's what that's there for. But it is also designed, and Shimano has said this. Uh I don't know what SRAM's take on it is, but that lube is designed to just run right away. You can run that as your chain lube.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Put it on and go.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

And go.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

Is it wet lube, dry lube?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

I don't know what type of lube it is. So gooey lube. Friction facts, I believe it's friction facts, where they test chain lubes. They actually have tested the chain. Alongside other all these leather lubes, and the factory lube tests better than a lot of very popular aftermarket lubricants.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Don't tell milk off.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

So it doesn't last very long. You're only gonna get 150, 200 miles out of it, I'd say. Okay. Uh, before you need to apply more lubricant. Yeah. Um, I also think that it can be a little tacky and sticky. Oh, okay. And they're definitely using less than they used to. But I like wiping down the side plates, wiping that off with some alcohol because I don't want that that tackiness that that's coating the chain to collect dirt.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

So when you put take out a new chain, you wipe it, you put it on, do you then put more lube on it, or do you let it roll with the lube that it came out of the pack with? You know what?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

Sometimes this depends on the rider and the type of bike. Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:03

There you go. I have one more question about chains. What is wax?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

Yeah, so wax is definitely the it is well, let's just say what it is. It is the best lubricant. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

Yes. Is it just candle wax? Am I just zipping?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

So funny enough, can of wax has been tested. It is quite good.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Okay, but is that what they're waxing it with? What does it mean to wax a chain?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

There are two different ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:32

It started where everybody would where you were stripping the chain of all of its of its factory lube or any other lube or can that you might have used in since then.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

Getting rid of all that, and then you were um it was immersion waxing. So you would actually melt wax in, say, a crock pot, and then dipping your chain into that melting wax.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

But not candle wax, like special wax you get for this.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

It is special wax, but you could use the use candle wax, yes, you could.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

And the DIY project.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:03

So that did two things. It one, it it is found to be the best lubricant in terms of overall lowest friction.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

The lowest the lower friction on the rollers prevents the rollers from wearing down the plates, which prevents the which makes the chain last longest. So waxing it collects the least dirt, it makes the chain last the longest, it rolls the fastest with the least friction. This is why it's the best. Now, and then there had been some drip waxes. So you apply it just like a normal chain lube. Oh, but I think it's only been in the past couple years where they have been more investment in drip waxes, okay, and they have gotten really quite good. Okay. And let's face it, dipping your chain into a crock pot of melted wax is a time-consuming process. Drip wax is probably the way most people want to go if they're gonna use a wax lube. Okay. So I am just actually starting to move a bunch of stuff over to drip waxes. Really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's that's that's wax change.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:15

That's why it's the hot thing. Get it? Wax hot. Right. Okay. All right. Well, the sun has set, and it's time to wrap up this show. Okay. Cycling Together with Kristen and Steve is a production of Steve the Bike Guy, an independent bicycle shop in eastern Massachusetts and Sundan Marketing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

If you like the show, please leave a review and share with a friend for show notes, links, or to leave a comment, please visit cycling together.bike. And you can follow the shop on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at Steve the Bike Guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:48

Thanks for joining the ride.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

Okay, we'll see you next time.