So you want to buy a used bicycle

As an experienced bike shop owner once told us - everyone rides a used bike!

Steve and Kristin discuss what to look for (or look out for) when purchasing a pre-owned road or mountain bike, with a special focus on the things that are most expensive to replace, and how to know how much is "too much" to repair a used bicycle. Kristin even surprises Steve with a few real marketplace listings for evaluation and explanation.

Also in this episode... Kristin also shares how a podcast from the Women's MTB Network on bike fit for women has swayed her on the need for women's specific saddles, they discuss why you should replace your helmet ever 3 to 5 years, Steve explains Shimano Cues and Microshift components, and they share news about the 5th year of the Shop's summer MTB ride series for women.

Transcript

Kristin 0:00

Take us away.

Steve 0:00

This week on Cycling Together, we are discussing what to look for when buying a pre-owned or used bike. Uh, our women's ride series. Uh when to replace your helmet, which is an interesting one. And Kristen has questions inspired by a past reel, which I do. I know nothing about, so this will be a blind questions for me. So here we go.

Kristin 0:23

Let's get rolling. This is Kristin.

Steve 0:24

And I'm Steve, and you are listening to Cycling Together, a podcast about bikes, riding, and riding together.

Kristin 0:31

Before we get to pre-owned bikes, I wanted to uh talk about a podcast that I've been listening to. So as we've done this podcast, I have found more cycling podcasts, and generally they're pretty industry related. Yeah. Like they're fine, but kind of deep in the weeds for me. But I found one this week from the Women's Mountain Bike Network that uh, first of all, didn't even know that existed.

Steve 0:58

Okay.

Kristin 0:58

But interestingly, they were talking about bike fitting. So we had just done our show, and then across my table, across my feed, comes this episode with a Dr. Jesse Dupler. She's a doctor of physical therapy, a cyclist, and a bike fit specialist and founder of Chain Reaction Physical Therapy. Anyway, I'm not gonna go into the whole show other than to say you should go listen to it because they talked a lot about fitting mountain bikes and women, which was just very interesting. But the one thing I wanted to talk about is they talked about women-specific saddles and whether they too were baloney. Oh. And, you know, it was an interesting conversation. I've been very I'm one who believes in a women-specific saddle. But as they were talking about it, they were saying, like, one of them has wider sit bones than than their wife does. And and again, I think it just came down to maybe they're not women-specific saddles, maybe they're just different saddles. Yeah. Right? And is it a problem to call something women-specific when it turns out it would be the right saddle for you?

Steve 2:11

I know that men in many cases have preferred the so-called women-specific saddle. They they found it more comfortable.

Kristin 2:16

Right. So um, so you do find that people at the shop have picked a women's saddle, even if no, well, I I have I've seen it happen.

Steve 2:25

It is a little harder for that for men to say, Oh, that how that's there's no way that's right for me if it's their own.

Kristin 2:34

If it's a women's saddle, see, that's this is what I'm saying. So this was the point of the conversation was do we need women-specific saddles, or is that again just a level of marketing and that we just need more saddles that work for more people and maybe get away from the label women-specific, because you might have someone who has narrower sit bones.

Steve 2:56

I I actually I think I think we do need to get away from that. You you look at the the surface of a saddle, and a lot of times you'll either have a flatter across the back or more around it. You have the open channel in the middle, and then you have the overall width. And and from there, you know, there's not a lot of differences in many regards. So, really, I think that the saddle should be getting away from the gender and going to width, the say the cutout, maybe the cutout width, yeah, as well. You could even specify that.

Kristin 3:27

Yep.

Steve 3:27

And and then I guess maybe the overall back shape, you know, or something.

Kristin 3:32

It was a good, it was a good episode. I think it was called something like why are mountain bikers always in pain? And like, maybe we've accepted a level of pain. We talked about this. Like, yeah, do we as riders accept a certain level of pain that we don't need to accept that we just think of as normal? And so it was a great conversation. It was a great podcast. I will put it in the show notes. All right, we're gonna talk about used bikes or pre-owned. Did have that one. Um, I can't think of his name, Larry. He's a member of the National Bicycle Dealers Association. He has a bike shop down south, and he always says he's got a thriving used bike business out of his shop, and he says, everybody rides a used bike.

Steve 4:17

Everybody rides a used bike.

Kristin 4:18

The minute you leave the the minute you leave my parking lot with your brand new bike, it's a used bike.

Steve 4:23

Yep.

Kristin 4:23

Which I think is spectacular.

Steve 4:26

It is, it's a great way to say it. Every every rider is riding a used bike. Right.

Kristin 4:31

All right, so we want to talk about used bikes in part because it's a pretty common thing. I actually heard someone on an NBDA call recently ask the rest of us what do you do about people who come in with this quote unquote great bike they found, bought a used bike, how do you break it to them? That it's gonna take a lot of money to rehab. And so that's one of the things we want to address today when we're talking about pre-owned bikes, like how to find them, what to look for them. So, where would you like to start with this conversation?

Steve 5:09

Well, we can break this down into the type of bike, right? I think we have to. So between the road and the mountain, I we can we can loop gravel into the road, but gravel is is quite new. Yes. And we're gonna just so we're just gonna talk about that a little bit, but we're gonna get into uh unfortunately the situations that I see and those type of of issues where people come in. Right. And and what to look for when you're buying a used bike and what to kind of know and realize. Right. I guess so it is unless you are very knowledgeable about bicycles and their history, about the parts, what goes wrong, what wears, and so forth, then it is difficult to buy a used bike and kind of know what you're getting.

Kristin 6:02

Let's start with road bike bikes. Road bikes.

Steve 6:05

All right. So with road bikes and looking at used road bikes, one thing to know is that there was a big bike boom in the 70s, a huge bike boom. Millions and millions of people bought and playing breaking away. Yeah, right. And the breaking away was in the 70s, right? That was that that came out of that whole bike boom. And you still see a lot of those original 70s road bikes for sale, and I still have people who say have a charity event to do, and they don't have they don't have a road bike, and they go out and buy a used one real cheap, and they bring me in this 70s road bike. That is something that I just it it breaks my heart, you know, because it breaks your heart. It does the comfort level, the the fitment, the gear range, the braking, everything on it is just so far and away not good anymore.

Kristin 7:02

It's no fun. It's no fun anymore.

Steve 7:05

Yeah.

Kristin 7:05

Yeah.

Steve 7:06

Um why is that?

Kristin 7:08

So it's not that it's no fun. They're they're not very comfortable.

Steve 7:12

They're not very comfortable. The saddles are horrible on them. Okay. The the handlebars are um they don't have hoods like they do nowadays, rubber hoods on the brake levers, right? Those brake levers were just bare aluminum, just smooth. And they're not meant to put your hands on. You're meant to put your hands on the drops or on the tops of the bars, where they'll also have that secondary braking lever system.

Kristin 7:37

My mom had a bike like that. Okay, got it.

Steve 7:40

So the gear ranges are very narrow, they're not great for climbing hills without grinding real hard. Yes. And the brakes are lousy. So, and and and a lot of them will have steel rims in some cases, and steel rims with any moisture, and you have basically have no brakes whatsoever. So these are just like just stay away from 70s bikes. Like, like they were modeled after racing road bikes of the time, right? Because that's what we knew. You had you had you had sort of the the high the well, the sort of the cruiser three-speed type of bike. Yes. Right? Yep. Or you had this style, and that was it. The Port de France. Nobody was but they were cheaply, they were cheap versions of those those professional racing roads.

Kristin 8:28

Did these have the shifters on the down tube?

Steve 8:31

So they would either be on the down tube or they would be up at the stem. But they were the big levers up at the stem or or whatnot. And and quite frankly, that style bike actually uh kept going on into the 80s with department store bikes. Oh, okay. I I had one from Sears in in the sort of early mid-80s. Yeah. That was basically no different than a 70s road bike. Okay. Yeah.

Kristin 8:56

All right, so that's 70s.

Steve 8:58

Um, and sorry, then we get to sort of the your more modern bike. Let's just say, well, we're gonna kind of loop 80s into 70s a little bit there, all right.

Kristin 9:07

So I would there's some overlap, right? Like I'm trying to think I had a road bike at a 10 speed.

Steve 9:13

Yeah, and when you say 10 speed, it's because you were multiplying the two chain rings up front with the five cogs in the back to get 10 speed.

Kristin 9:21

But I swear I was not at I would on that bike, I don't remember that I was shifted. I think it had a more it had hoods. Would that have happened in the like eight late?

Steve 9:31

That would have where you were shifting up on the brake levers? No, probably not because that wouldn't have happened to the 90s.

Kristin 9:36

Oh, okay. Yeah, got it. All right. So yes, so I would avoid 70s and 80s bikes if you can.

Steve 9:45

If you can, yes. Okay, and the reason is because if especially if you're looking at the low price points, very likely somebody selling one of these for 50, 100, 150 bucks, you could spend 100, 150, 200 and get a decade newer model with much more convenient features. Okay, so that's that's really one of the reasons. So then we have show Shimano's STI levers. Now, this is where you have the brake levers with the shifters built into the brakes and and the rubber hoods, and that's where you're actually putting your hands a lot of the time.

Kristin 10:18

Yep.

Steve 10:19

So originally on road bikes, the design of that is where those levers were on the down slope of the handlebar. And those were also sort of uncomfortable compared to current bikes from the past say 20 years, where the hoods are more at an uh even shelf with the top of the bar, let's say. Okay. Right, and it's just more comfortable for your hands to rest up there. But those older STI levers in particular wear out. So that is a big thing to look for. If you're looking for at a used road bike, click through all the shift through all the gears. Yep. Make sure each click is distinct, it's not soft, it's not vague. Um, you know, each click is about the same level uh of precision as the next one. Yeah. And then it shifts through every single year.

Kristin 11:15

I was gonna say, can we can we step this back? Oh, and I want to step it back before you get into individual components. Yeah. So I may make you say that again. But I'm looking at a bike from the 90s. Yes. Okay. Um, assuming it fits me right. What are the primary parts of the bike that I am most concerned about looking at it?

Steve 11:37

Okay, yeah. So um look at the frame and make sure that you don't see if it's a steel frame, make sure you don't really see any rust. Yeah. Okay. Um, if it's aluminum frame, then I would say really sort of inspect all of the welds and the joints. Just look for anything that might be cracking. Okay. I really aluminum does fatigue. It can crack. I don't see it that much. So it's a very low risk, but it's not a zero risk. Yeah. Um, and then and then from the frame, look at the wheels, uh, spin them, see if they're true. If there's a tiny bit of wobble, that can be easily fixed. True means straight. Means means that it's not sort of wobbling left, right. Yes. You know, maybe touching as it wobbles, touching the brake pad. Run over by a little bit of wobble though, can can be true out. If there's a very distinct sort of a wiggle to it, yeah, in a very in in a very sort of narrow space on the rim, that usually is a bent rim and often can't be true out. Okay. Um that look at the tires, sort of see if the rubber feels grippy, that you're looking to see if there's any sort of dry rotting, any cracking. Um, if there is, it might not, you know, you could replace the tires. So if the rest of the bike is it looks great, and it's just like the tires, that's you can just put that on your list of things that you're gonna have to spend money on. And then the drivetrain. So the drivetrain's the biggest thing. So people will buy a used bike, bring it in, and the drivetrain's the Detroit train is the biggest item that's like, oh, sorry, but this is like your chain is stretched, and your chain is really stretched, and you pro that like the cassette is is worn and your chain rings are are narrow. Right.

Kristin 13:27

So when you're saying the chain is really stretched, and it was ridden for a long time while it was stretched, so it actually changed the profile of the teeth in the cassette or the cranks. And so even just replacing the chain.

Steve 13:44

You have to now replace the cassette cassettes. Yeah, and one or two of the chain rings as well. Okay. If the chain is just a little stretch, and I get this often, it's just a little stretch, it needs to be replaced, but I I change the chain, I go out and test it under load, everything's fine, you're good to go. Many, many times it's just the chain needs replacing, the rest of the parts are fine. Okay. But if you don't, if you don't check the chain, you don't know how worn it is, you might have to be prepared for that big expense. Right. Right.

Kristin 14:14

And then and then you mentioned what got me here, the shifting, like the idea that you should test the shifting.

Steve 14:20

Test the shifting, yeah, especially with road bikes, because the road bike shifters are one of the most expensive parts. Um they are a little less expensive with rim brakes, and um more if it's a more uh current bike, say 2014, 2015, is where disc brakes came on road bikes, really, um very commonly, then um then those are more expensive to replace.

Kristin 14:44

Okay.

Steve 14:44

Those are also, since they're newer, less likely to be worn out, though.

Kristin 14:48

Right. But this is where I think it's really where you really realize as a potential buyer that you don't know what you don't know, right? Because looking at the list, I mean cheat a little bit, right? You you mentioned the STI levers, but there are other levers we should or or drivetrain things we should be looking out for that I wouldn't no.

Steve 15:10

So Shimano 10 speed is one of the things, and when we say 10 speed here, we mean 10 cogs in the back.

Kristin 15:15

Okay.

Steve 15:16

Shimano's drivetrains with with 10 10 cogs in the back on the on the cassette like massive years and years and years of these models, and across all of their ranges. So across one, well, they're they're popular ranges. Um they're 105 group set, the Altego group set, and the Dirt Ace group set. And in some cases, those are really getting old now, and those shifters are worn out, not fully operating anymore, and they need to be replaced. So you might be looking at a bike with one of these group sets, and the thing is there's no more replacement shifters for Shimano 10 speed. And so you have to buy a use set. Now you're gonna have to probably buy a use set off of eBay or whatnot, and are even new. Exactly. A person saying might say it works, but it might be they have all the clicks, but half the clicks are super vague. Okay, right, because that's also what can happen. Vague click. So I think now we're getting to this point in 2026 where I would just not buy a used bike with Shimano 10 speed?

Kristin 16:25

I'm gonna ask a potentially dumb question. Yeah, how do I know when I'm looking at a bike if they are the Shimano STI levers or the oh, so I mean Shimano 10 speed I can figure out it says Shimano in the front, it's got 10 10 things in there. Yeah, yeah, 10 cocks in the back. I I can get that.

Steve 16:44

Yep.

Kristin 16:44

But like, how do I know what I'm looking at?

Steve 16:48

Any I mean Shimano STI to STI levers just m is the generic name for the brake levers that'll have the shifting built in.

Kristin 16:57

Okay.

Steve 16:57

Right? And it just all of them doesn't matter what it doesn't matter what model, what speed, okay? Yeah, so but those levers are matched to the to the number of cogs you have in the back uh cassette.

Kristin 17:10

Okay, right?

Steve 17:11

So if you have eight in the back, you need eight speed shift levers. If you have nine in the back, you need nine speed levers. Shimano makes replacement eight and nine speed stuff. So if you know that is replaceable right now, no problem. 10 speed is not because what they did with the 10-speed group set, which is called Tiagra, is they changed the pull ratio of how it pulls the cable so it will not work with older 10-speed stuff anymore. Well, that's even though it clicks it clicks the right amount of times, it's not pulling the derail air properly the right amount of times. So if you if you had a 10-speed setup and you had bad shifters, you'd either have to get used 10-speed shifters. Yep. Right? Um well, a lot of times you're only replacing the one side. Um or you're gonna have to say get the Tiagra lever, but then the new Tiagra derailleur as well, in order to match that that shifter. Got it. And but your cassette, if it was still good, would work.

Kristin 18:14

Okay. What else?

Steve 18:17

All right, what else?

Kristin 18:18

What uh what else?

Steve 18:19

You don't see Campy Camp Agnolo very much anymore. Campagnolo. Campagnolo. And so uh why don't we see it much anymore?

Kristin 18:28

I have to ask.

Steve 18:28

Well, because Camp Agnolo doesn't come on new bikes, and so therefore, the only bikes you're going to see um with it are some is something somebody upgraded or custom. Now there was a time in the 90s, or uh 2000s, where it was coming on a few bikes. So it's out there on used bikes, but you just don't see it that much anymore.

Kristin 18:55

You fancy if you have that. So right. Right? Right.

Steve 18:58

Okay.

Kristin 18:59

What about SRAM?

Steve 19:00

So SRAM was the last to the road group game.

Kristin 19:04

Okay.

Steve 19:04

Oh, I'd have to really pick my brain to to remember when their um their shifters came out. Okay. Right, and and they first introduced their road groups. It has probably been twenty years now.

Kristin 19:18

Are they a newer company, SRAM?

Steve 19:21

Compared to they are so SRAM is well, this is this is a really side quest here. SRAM is basically Grip Shift. If anybody remembers Grip Shift, it was a twisting shifter system. Remember it.

Kristin 19:33

We put it on Sophie's bike.

Steve 19:34

Yeah, and it started actually with like tri-bikes on the end of the bars and then moved to mountain bikes. And that really is sort of the origin of SRAM. And then it will SRAM is a company by acquisition. So they just sort of acquired more and more companies that made more different parts, and all of a sudden they formed a component group company. So like they bought socks chains, right? Still made in the Portugal factory where socks were made. Um, truve Truvative uh cranks sets. Um, you know, they they bought um RockShocks and they bought a lot of stuff.

Kristin 20:15

Growth through acquisition. Yes, growth through acquisition.

Steve 20:18

SRAM shifters, they can have issues, but to be honest, I really don't see too many issues with older SRAM shifters. They don't really, I haven't really seen a lot of say failures, if you will. They have failures in their shifters.

Kristin 20:39

I feel like we're gonna talk about that later.

Steve 20:41

Right, but I don't really get shifters in there like, oh, these shifters are gone. Like there's nothing to be done.

Kristin 20:47

Okay, what else is that?

Steve 20:47

And then and then, okay, so then as you're looking at a used road bike, you want to take into account the gear range. So the older the bike, the less the gear range was, right? In terms of its hardest gear to its easiest gear. Okay. All right, it doesn't matter how many speeds it has. Um, it is basically will it be good enough for the climbing that you need to do? Is really what it comes down to. It's is it is the easiest gear easy enough?

Kristin 21:16

I will say I'm often struck when a older bike comes to the shop, or when I visit the butt shop and there's an older bike there by how small everything is, right? Like the rear cassette is so small.

Steve 21:28

Yeah, I mean it used to be 11 to through 23 and 11 through 28. 11 through 28 was like the biggest. Okay. That's as big as it got, and it's as big as the derailer could handle is another thing. So, you know, as as bikes went on to the current day, the climbing gears, the easiest gear on these bikes, has gotten way easier.

Kristin 21:51

Yes, it has.

Steve 21:52

So that's something to keep in mind when you're looking when you're looking at a used road bike. And if it doesn't have as easy of a of a gear as you need um what it's going to take to upgrade it we'll we'll say when you say derailleur can't accommodate what is what does that mean it means that the derailers on bikes had a maximum cog that they could run with.

Kristin 22:20

Okay.

Steve 22:20

All right and like there was um so and so and a lot of these these older road bikes the maximum cog they could accommodate was 25 or 28 teeth.

Kristin 22:35

Okay.

Steve 22:35

And so you can't you know some people will come in and they'll say well can't you just put on that 1136 cassette meaning meaning 36 more than 36 is on your largest cog in the back. That would be an easier gear but the derailleur can't shift to it it would interfere right with those teeth. It just can't get up there.

Kristin 22:55

Okay.

Steve 22:56

And so yes you can a lot of times get easier gears in the bike but now you're talking about also changing the rear derailler and do they make an appropriate rear derailler that can handle those larger cogs for the number of speeds that your shifters are.

Kristin 23:09

And the gear is I mean the gearing is so important. I go to ride with people and and I I'm strong I'm a good climber but I also have a monster climbing gear on my gravel bike and so sometimes I find it hard you know when I'm riding with someone else who will be like I'm just not that good you're not as good as you on the hills and I'm like yes I'm good on the hills but I also have a dinner plate back there. Like I don't think people always understand the role of gearing in in getting up hills. Right. Right at all. So again you just looking but they are tiny on some of these older bikes. Yeah.

Steve 23:54

Um yep and then you have doubles and triples so that means two chain rings on the crank or three chain rings. You don't triples have gone away um they really sort of don't exist anymore except in niche touring um situations. Yeah and but if you need if you're looking at an older bike and you really need that climbing because you live in a in a mountainous area a very hilly area then that's when you might want to look to a triple bike but otherwise I would try to stay away from triples at this point. The next thing is uh I guess tire fitment so fitment yeah tire okay the fitment great no I got it tire fitment yeah that so what the maximum tire size that the bike can accommodate because all road bikes had 700 which is the wheel diameter by 23 millimeter wide okay 23 was just the standard that's what road bikes came with forever in a way you know so skinny skinny skinny and then people started to get put 25 millimeters on their bike because that would fit okay and like oh this is this is better and then a few people started to put 28 millimeter and it was like oh this is way more comfortable this is this is better and then uh basically what happened is then disc brakes and that was usually the maximum they were yeah they were limited by the well you're limited by the brake bridge so what can fit under the brake what can fit under the fork crown and then what can fit in between say the chainstays on the frame and like there's certain certainly like especially old Italian frames could only fit 23 millimeter. Yeah and early carbon frames could only fit 23 millimeters sometimes so you have to and then occasionally you could squeeze 25s that's something to really look for um if you're looking at an older bike with rim brakes you the maximum you're probably going to fit is 25 28 millimeter and you want to make sure that you can fit that 28 millimeter because that is going to be I mean it's the other thing about those skinny skinny ones when we were you even like our first road bikes together my first road bikes you had plenty you know you were pumping those up to 120 psi yeah so they were hard they were skinny and so that's when you're talking about when somebody brings one of these bikes in you're like this is not going to be a very comfortable ride for you. Yeah not only is the geometry weird but the yeah so sometimes yes I'll get somebody coming like getting back into road riding or again bought a used road bike because they want to get into it and it's uh it's an aluminum frame which in the 80s nineties rode quite harsh um and it's got you know 23 millimeter tires on 16 millimeter internal width rims and I'm getting geeking a little bit on that but um oh now you're geeking yeah yeah that you you you actually have to inflate those fairly high so you don't pinch flat on all of our potholes and yeah they ride harsh they ride harsh yeah okay so try to get a bike that can accommodate even yeah and then once we got so what disc brakes really did the braking honestly on a lot of rim brake road bikes is excellent it is all the braking you need I I would I would never say any to tell anybody that you need a disc brake road bike when they're looking for used bikes. There are phenomenal rim braked road bikes out there used um your and and to me the biggest um downside or the changes you want to make are the gear range yep and the maximum tire you can fit into that frame.

Kristin 27:43

Okay.

Steve 27:44

Yep.

Kristin 27:44

Right.

Steve 27:45

But what disc brakes let us do is have yes so it got rid of that caliper brake it opened up the frame design and we got big tires. Those are the big big ticket items to look for in your in your used road bikes.

Kristin 27:58

Right. Yeah because other stuff like you you mentioned the saddles were uncomfortable.

Steve 28:02

Oh from the 70s they're way better in like you know the 2000s yeah but again that always expect you may have to change the saddle on any used road bike. Right. It's just saddles also wear out yes um the padding breaks down um as well so even a saddle that might have worked for you new doesn't work for you after it's been had been used for 15 years.

Kristin 28:26

Right or a saddle that was broken in by somebody else's bum. Exactly you can also leave yes indentations of where their sit bones were yep yeah so that's and again from the from the cost of things I don't think a saddle is the highest right cost upgrade.

Steve 28:42

How do you know how much you should spend on a bike you can check bicyclebluebook.com okay and you can get a so that's a good value guide area. Yeah and you can kind of look on eBay at what you can also like um click on sold items so you can also see what things have actually sold for not what people are strying to sell them for.

Kristin 29:02

Because sometimes you'll be like oh there's all these things on eBay they're selling for and and I'll usually say yes but did they sell? I don't care what people are asking for it. I just want to know what it's going for.

Steve 29:13

Yep. If we talk about the more expensive user of a bike yeah so somebody's looking at more high-end stuff chains are usually going to be worn out. Yep if a chain is very worn out though the cassette might be worn out the chainrings might be worn out um chain rings can be a really big thing because with Shimano the large chainring on many of the cranks is ex very expensive.

Kristin 29:39

Really?

Steve 29:39

And as I just posted on Instagram this past week you can't get them sometimes anymore.

Kristin 29:45

Right.

Steve 29:46

So a Shimano Altegra 6800 crank set I had two customers within a week who had their 52th chain rings on those were both completely worn out. They would they new chains were put on and they would just skip and pop and you could just visually even see they were just gone. Well there is no more 52th 6800 chain ring any you know Shimano what Shimano does is they stop producing those parts yeah they have a certain amount in stock as their stock reduces the price goes up and up and up to incentivize people to upgrade or or buy a new part and then they're all gone. So they actually needed new whole new cranksets in order to get that fixed.

Kristin 30:31

How much does that cost?

Steve 30:34

Well there's many ways you can go okay right so uh Shimano does actually make a few non-series cranks um one which actually cost less than the chain ring would have cost them oh okay right so awesome and um if they bought the uh Altegra one uh then 411 speed then it would have that actually was about double the cost of the one I put on for them but okay yeah all right so that's road bikes yeah let's move on to mountain bikes let's move on to mountain bikes okay yes mountain bikes came about in the 80s yes all right it I just did service on an 80s mountain bike an 89 mountain bike this past week yeah it the guy had owned it since new okay it was he was it's been in his garage he wanted to have his son use it yes it really only needed sort of a base tune up and it was rolling fine you know not the greatest bike to ride on the trails anymore but I don't know maybe he was just using it for rail trails and so forth but anyway that's fine but stay away from any 80s mountain bikes let's just put that right off the side um okay then let's talk about 90s bikes yes stay away from 90s bikes as well and I'm hey now that's when I started and I'm gonna talk about a bike I just got in so a guy bought himself and his wife two used bikes so and I think they were mainly for just casual riding rail trails maybe around the neighborhood that kind of thing okay um he got his wife a hybrid bike that was actually cool like that perfect it was it was it was perfect right for her in terms of what they were wanting to use it for. He got himself a 90s Gary Fisher mountain bike okay and so 26 inch 560 millimeter wide super narrow bars um cannileber brakes and a very very aggressive position on this thing. We define aggressive position well so even though the frame technically fit him yes right very very high to bar you know the the the the bars were really far below the saddle height got it sweetness and this and of course the stems the stems back in the 90s were 130 140 150 millimeters long they were massive it was just a it was completely different geometry and and I I still own my 90s mountain bike and it is not something I would want to ride on the trails anymore. But I at the time loved racing that thing yeah I loved mountain biking on that thing right but yep but they're just so much so much more comfortable and better now that stay away from a 90s bike. Okay that leads us into the I guess the 20s right the aughts the aughts yes the aughts and the teens right so the things to look for on a used bike are gonna be the is the drivetrains going to be similar to the road bikes. Okay worn out chains worn out cassettes worn out chain ring teeth yes um if you're looking for real value in a used mountain bike then I think sort of a sweet spot that you might be able to to look for would be don't get a 26 inch wheel bike all right so 27 and a half wheel all right even though those are sort of outdated now all right if your budget's super super tight then there's some real bargains on 27 and a half because people wanted 29 most of the day time. So like a 275 wheel bike with maybe like a two by drivetrain that you will upgrade to one by right you could probably it could be a really really fun bike that you can get very very cheap.

Kristin 34:42

Okay.

Steve 34:42

But you're gonna have to put a little bit of money into it. So just keep that in mind. The more and the more you can do yourself I should say the better.

Kristin 34:53

Are are mountain bikes easier to upgrade than road bikes? Like are there some just components that are easier than road bikes?

Steve 35:03

I don't know if that question makes any sense yeah that it gets that gets too much in the weeds of of what you're upgrading. Okay. Yeah but in general the shifters on mountain bikes are way less expensive than road bikes. Oh okay so that makes a huge difference right okay um the second thing but the the the other thing to look for in a mountain bike is older hydraulic disc brakes I wouldn't and I wouldn't get cable disc brakes I would definitely get hydraulic but at the same time older hydraulic disc brakes can have a lot of issues okay and those can be really pricey yeah for mountain bikes so like original avid um brakes oh which RAM acquired that's how they got their disc brakes okay good job sram yep so those can be just hot garbage yeah if they're working at all okay um you know older um yeah older Meguras even older Shimano's can be an issue although if you were to say what old disc brake brand is going to be probably the still working and the most reliable I would say shimano.

Kristin 36:17

So this is another one where when you are test riding a mountain bike you want to again the shifting should shift definitively correct yes braking should break without necessarily having to pull all the way to the or it being really plump.

Steve 36:37

Really really yeah plump exactly that's what happens with the dot fluid brakes is they absorb water and so basically there's no pull play in that that there should be in the brake levers and they're basically almost on right from the start. And so I would be careful about those um because a lot of the seals might have swelled in those old brakes. Okay.

Kristin 37:01

And what about shocks?

Steve 37:03

Oh yeah shocks right so oh yeah shocks they're mountain bikes that's a great one you are looking so on the shocks the you're looking for any sort of wear marks on the stanchions and so forth because so as that that would indicate that dirt has gotten on the seals and as the both rear shock or the front forks and as it's it compressing it's basically wearing and etching into those yes and you want to stay away from anything that has any etch marks on it.

Kristin 37:36

Okay.

Steve 37:37

Yep. And you want to make sure that it's holding air right so you know it it it compresses and rebounds. Yep. Um you want to play with the rebound knobs and you want to make it go all the way slow and then compress it and see if it slowly comes back up like it should and then go all the way to fast and see if that changed it.

Kristin 37:54

Okay.

Steve 37:55

So if those things work it's holding air and the rebound controls change the actual rebound then most likely you might want to plan for a service of those but they're probably just the normal service and they'll be fine.

Kristin 38:12

Right.

Steve 38:12

Yeah.

Kristin 38:13

But the the etching the scratches on the side of the stanchions or any kind of like fluid coming out.

Steve 38:21

So fluid coming out could just mean you need new seals. Okay. So that can be difficult. If it's holding air but you see oil all over them and usually the oil tracks dirt.

Kristin 38:31

Okay.

Steve 38:32

Then they definitely need serviced but then they could be just fine. Oh yeah the I would say it is harder to know that you're getting a decent mountain bike than it is a road bike. Oh because of all the things that can go wrong in a mountain bike like that like the suspension like the hydraulic disc brakes um and and the drivetrains see more dirt and grime so they tend to wear out faster. Yep so it is definitely very much buyer beware with a used mountain bike.

Kristin 39:11

Is it also okay so here's my present to you.

Steve 39:14

Yes. Okay.

Kristin 39:16

I went on to we have a Facebook group called New England Bike Classifieds and I went on and said mountain bike. Yeah uh oh what do you have I have listings you have listings and one of the things I want to talk about is um is it a mountain bike or is it a mountain bike style bike or is it a mountain bike? Because we've had people come to the shop say for our group rides or for who are like I'm I want to take this out to the trails and you're like well it is technically called a mountain bike or it was a mountain bike back in the day. Yes we we do like we do like saying that there are mountain bike shaped bikes right so I'm gonna give you a couple of listings to look at and you're gonna tell me what someone might if this looks like a potential to be a good mountain bike okay or if you would immediately be like absolutely not don't even think about it for the trails because again you can have mountain bike you can have a bike a mountain bike style bike that would be great just to ride on the rail trail. On the rail trail yeah it would do a great job. All right so this one reads great trek mountain bike for man or big kid exclamation point unsure of model stored inside minimally used tires still have stubbles on stubbles ergonomic grips some accessories included great all around bike it is it's a trek okay it's a men's trek mountain bike for $50 $50 that look like a bike that someone should in here we go live on the pod she's surprising me with uh listings that I have to if somebody were to say to you Steve would this be a good mountain bike for me to get started on on our local trails okay so this is $50 huh? $50.

Steve 41:09

All right this is a great bike for the rail trail I would not take this on mountain bike trails.

Kristin 41:16

Next bike trek 900 mountain bike size extra large 22 inches from BB to top of seat tube this is a rather unique model that was only made for one year in 1988. Ooh bike neaks brakes and some new cables only comes with a front shifter has Shimano Dior XT hubs Segino crank set sun tour rear derailleur also includes a seat and post that is not pictured it is $100.

Steve 41:50

Okay. Uh we say Segino at least I say Segino by the way Segino yeah I don't know but I could be wrong. The reason somebody might want to buy this bike is because they're trying to put together their prized vintage bike that they're not really going to ride but they want to just have it assembled reassembled and so forth and they need a particular vintage part off of it or that kind of thing.

Kristin 42:15

It's a steel frame it doesn't have a front or rear shock because of its age.

Steve 42:19

Right.

Kristin 42:20

So again probably even though it is a but he described as a mountain bike.

Steve 42:25

Here's the big thing is that it's sun tour shifting okay okay do not this this applies now to all bikes do not buy any used bike with a sun tour rear derailler and the reason is is because sun tour deraillers and shifters used their own cable pull ratio and the freewheels on those actually had variable spacing so you can't actually just replace and they were all they're often worn out so you can't replace it with a Shimano one and have it work really properly so this is just a this is an absolutely new no go.

Kristin 43:07

Okay. Yeah and remember I'm asking about if you're gonna be in the mountain bike trails because again that's not even good you wouldn't even that okay no no all right Canadale F400 mountain bike in great condition 100% fully functional high quality lightweight aluminum frame smooth shifting strong frame reliable components make this a great bike for commuting fitness trails or everyday riding some of the specs it has a Shimano STX derailer the tire size is 20 by 2.1 Cannondale's numbering hierarchy the higher the number the better the bike okay F400 was the lowest they went okay from my knowledge that seems like cheating to start at 400 but sure yeah it does right like this would probably be okay for

Steve 44:00

The rail trail. Now, now the thing about the drivetrain on this. So, this is a Shimano uh 21 speed, and here we're gonna multiply the two. So, it's three train rings up front, seven in the back, yeah. And uh and Shimano STX. So, Shimano STX rear derailers were like bulletproof, those things last forever. That that derailer probably is still perfectly good now. And one of the great things about Shimano in this particular case is that their shifters and derailers in their six, seven, and eight speed range all use the same cable pull ratio and they're all interchangeable, and you could very easily get, say, replacement shifters nowadays for this, if if need be. Here's another real big tip. Many times we talked about on the road shifters that they get soft, or you try to shift them and they just don't do anything, they just sort of swipe and and don't click. The same thing can happen on mountain bike shifters, especially if they're sitting for a while. If you just take a silicone spray um or similar lubricant, WD40 will work, and you stick the the hose, um, the tube into the into like any of the little seams or wherever you can find in the shifter and just blast it in there. Just just absolutely soak inside the shifter, those shifters will come back to life. Oh 95% of the time.

Kristin 45:28

Okay.

Steve 45:29

Yep.

Kristin 45:30

Here's one that to my uneducated eye, I would I went, oh, maybe. So this is a specialized hard rock mountain bike, 21 speed, small, medium, front suspension fork. It doesn't say what it is. Um, Shimano shifters and derailers, 27 and a half tires.

Steve 45:51

They want $250.

Kristin 45:53

Yes.

Steve 45:54

This is just a couple pictures, but a lot of times from the pictures, you can tell if if there's a lot of scratches and so forth on it. This actually looks very clean and with not really a lot of scratches, so I would say it probably wasn't used that much. It's suspension fork is it's a Sun Tour spring operated one. Those are not, those are just okay for entry-level bikes. Um and it's 27.5 inch wheel. So I would say this would probably be a good bike to get, if it fits you, to get somebody going out on the trails.

Kristin 46:33

Like real, not just the rail trail. No, not just the rail trail. So if somebody were to say to me, Kristen, I was looking at this bike for the women's bike series. Right. We would say that looks like it has potential.

Steve 46:45

It looks like it has potential. I can't really see the drivetrain on this, and they're not all they're saying is Shimano shifters and derailers, and I can't really see what it has. But I would say, yeah. Yeah, if if you needed to get started uh mountain biking on trails at a low budget, this could work for you.

Kristin 47:04

All right. I'm gonna give you one last. This is a live enchant 26 mountain bike. Front suspension is an SR Sun tour 63 millimeter suspension. It has Shimato grip twist shifters, 21 speed, three in the front, seven in the back.

Steve 47:22

Yep.

Kristin 47:23

Powerful V-brakes. Bike was $500 new, and they are selling it for $260.

Steve 47:30

V-brakes are also known as linear pull. V-brake is Shimano's term for their brakes. Oh, okay. These are the kind that have these long arms, and then the cable comes across the top of them. Yes, yeah, yeah. Okay. That type of rim brake is superior to cannile lever brakes. Oh. It now it's an extra small, which is why it might be 26 inches. So the the larger versions of this bike might have had bigger wheels. So they say grip twist shifters, right?

Kristin 47:57

Yes.

Steve 47:58

And but it doesn't actually have those shifters based on these pictures. Right.

Kristin 48:04

I guess that's a good point that the person selling the bike could be as uninformed as the person buying the bike.

Steve 48:11

So this is uh this is uh also an entry-level mountain bike because it was only 500 new.

Kristin 48:16

Yeah.

Steve 48:17

And so $260 to me for this bike is too much.

Kristin 48:21

But it is a bike, if at a different price, could have the potential for again to hit.

Steve 48:27

Yeah, especially because it it will fit somebody who's very short, which is really hard. Yeah, which is very hard. Yep.

Kristin 48:33

Should anything in these listings tip somebody off that the bike that's being sold is stolen?

Steve 48:42

Well, when you go to look at a bike, you always want to tip it upside down. All right, okay, and you're looking for the serial number, which is often uh embossed into the bottom bracket area.

Kristin 48:53

Okay.

Steve 48:54

Or it used to be sort of in the metal, but now a lot of times it's just a sticker. You're looking for a serial number though. Okay. Right. So if it's been uh filed off, right, or just peeled away, there's just you can't find a serial number under there, then I would probably not get it. Yeah, that's a that's a big warning sign. You know, and then just go by vibe. Um if it's the person's own bike and they can tell you about it, and you know, you you know if it's the you know if it's the person's own bike or maybe it's the mother and the he's selling the son's bike or yeah, or or uh a person selling their deceased father's bike or something like that, that happens. Yeah, you can kind of get a you can be aware of that. Yeah if it's just some guy, you know, like hey, let's meet in the plaza and I'm selling sell you this bike, that's the ones you gotta be careful about. Got it.

Kristin 49:47

But is there anything else, like just high level for anyone who's thinking that they want to get a pre-owned bike that advice you can do? You know what?

Steve 49:55

Look for for um I guess bikes that have been stored outside. Don't get a bike that's been stored outside. Yeah. Um, and that's usually rusty chains. If there's a little bit of rust inside the heads of bolts, that's not necessarily mean that the bike was stored outside. That just happens from humidity. Yep. But paint that's faded, rusty chains, um, other little sort of rusty bits, the on rim breaks, the springs behind the calipers will rust, and that only happens if the bike's been stored outside.

Kristin 50:32

Okay.

Steve 50:32

So that's another thing to look at. Um, so I would stay away from that. Okay. Um, just I think you need to be aware that you could end up in many cases. So if you're going to say get this used bike and then take it to the bike shop to get a tune up, so to speak, you could end up spending a few hundred dollars to get it back in shape. So keep that in mind if you don't really know what you're looking at. Yeah.

Kristin 51:00

Right. Just be prepared. Yeah.

Steve 51:02

You might be just like, and then and so if you have that in mind when you're looking at a bike and the price of the bike, then you might say, this bike isn't worth it then. Yes. Right? Let's say you have a let's say you have a list of a few bikes you're you're interested in. Right.

Kristin 51:17

I I think it's important to reinforce that I don't think any bike shop likes to say to someone, oh, this bike that you bought is gonna cost X amount to fix. Like no bike shop, every bike shop owner that we were on this conversation we had, they all were like, Oh, we've all been in this situation where somebody brought in a bike and you can just see the disappointment. And I know it's tempting to think, like, oh, well, the bike shop just wants to make money. The bike shop does not want to make that kind of money, or they're there, they don't want to have to have that conversation where someone gets mad because they feel like the bike shop's just trying to make money on. That's that's that's more to the point. Yeah, is you know, um, of course the bike shop wants to make money, but and then really it is up to each person to decide what is what they want to invest in it, which I think is also hard for like you or other bike shop owners who might say, Well, I wouldn't spend that much on it.

Steve 52:16

Right. But yes, you there are situations where like, okay, they want to spend this much on it, then then I will do it.

Kristin 52:24

Okay. That actually are we are we good with used bikes? Yeah. That actually brings us, speaking of things that wear out that need to be replaced. Um Cycling Weekly had a uh article recently about how often you should replace your helmet. Okay. And I thought that was a good chance for us to talk about how often you should replace your helmet because it is a safety issue. Well, how what it is a safety issue. How often should you how often should you replace your helmet?

Steve 53:02

I guess it's like around three, four max five years.

Kristin 53:07

Yes, three to five years, which I think surprises everyone.

Steve 53:11

Now, all helmets have a manufacturing date in them. Yeah. The thing is that many times you might buy your helmet that's two years after its manufacturing date, but it's been hopefully sitting on a shelf somewhere out of the sunlight.

Kristin 53:27

Right.

Steve 53:28

Not you know, not getting out used, obviously. Yeah. So the materials nowadays, in my opinion, are fine with that shelf life, and then you can start its life when you put it into service. When you put it on. Yeah.

Kristin 53:43

But yeah, I as I said, I just think it surprises people. It it's a couple of situations we see, right? Someone who's been wearing the same helmet for 20 years.

Steve 53:52

Yeah, we do see that.

Kristin 53:54

And they come in and they're cracked on the like the foam inside has dried out to the point that it is cracking. Um, the plastic on top might have slight cracks in it. The other one is they pass helmets down from one child to the next. So the helmet they bought for their first child is now on their third child, and it's had a rough go, even if it wasn't just three to five five years. It's right, it seems like that's a good thing.

Steve 54:22

Well, the children probably, without even the parents knowing, have whacked their head on the pavement a few times. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin 54:28

And I mean, it gets thrown into the back of your car, it gets exposed to the sun. It um I think it's you know hard. Like right now, I'm coming up on what, four years on my mountain bike helmet, and they don't make mine anymore. Right. And so it's hard to find one that I like that fits my head quite the same way. But I guess I'd rather replace it one before I need to.

Steve 55:00

The the foam in a helmet is designed to crack and break, and that's part of the protection system. And so if it is starting to crack on its own from age, it is severely compromised for protecting your head.

Kristin 55:12

Right. Yeah, yeah. But it's another one I think can feel a bit like a like a money grab, right? Oh, the amount the shops are only saying three to five years because they want to sell you new helmets. And personally, I'd like to keep my helmet for 10 years. I would love my helmet.

Steve 55:26

To be honest, I would love to see data. I would love to see testing data on taking different helmet models and then testing them every say three years and seeing what the yeah. So that would be really interesting if Virginia Tech, who does helmet testing, uh got us the one of some of the same model helmet, yeah, or say took the top their top ten rated helmets, and then held on to a bunch of new models, and then every every two years say retested it, right? That that old model. Well, no, see, because that's just that's been sitting in a shelf, it's not being used. Yeah, no, you'd have to ask riders to say, can you bring us that helmet that you've been using? Yeah, for three years, and we want to retest it. Yeah, I mean it's gonna destroy it, but it'd be interesting, really interesting to know.

Kristin 56:20

It would be interesting. I mean, it was funny. We were talking about this on Friday night, and one of the riders was like, I've never had to wait five years because I usually hit my head at some point. I was like, I can safely say that I've knocked on wood, not had to do that. Okay, I have some questions. We did a video, um, one of our shows in the past. You talked about entry-level components, and that became a reel that continues to trigger conversation weeks later, um, which has me asking some questions. People said, Well, what about Shimano Q's?

Steve 56:58

Q's, yeah.

Kristin 56:58

What is that?

Steve 56:59

Shimano Q's is Shimano's bright idea to replace a lot of different models with one model that they then split into multi-mini models in under the Q's brand name and decided to just confuse everybody. So, yeah, so I mean they had a bunch of different product lineups with different names, like Acera and Olivio. Um, and they that's all gone or going away, I should say, and replaced what's called Qs, but then they just expanded the different models under Qs, and you've got U4000 and U6000, and uh nine speed and ten speed and four thousand is the entry level. It's honestly this has been a little bit what should have been perhaps a good move by Shimano to simplify their lineup, actually has just confused it to the consumer. Oh and we could go on and on about the differences and so forth, but Shimano Q's is actually a good group set. There are multiple different versions of it, yeah. Um, but it has definitely confused the public.

Kristin 58:28

I don't think the bike industry has ever done a good job of naming things, just kind of you know, levels or differences or you know. Um okay, what is MicroShift?

Steve 58:42

Ah, Microshift. So that is another component brand, basically. You've got you've always had sort of the big three. You've had Shimano, SRAM, and Campagnolo.

Kristin 58:52

Yeah.

Steve 58:53

And then you have these other minor sort of players. MicroShift has built up from the from the very bottom end, right? Up, so they're still very entry-level.

Kristin 59:05

Okay.

Steve 59:06

MicroShift came about where people sort of noticed it during COVID. And a lot of the brands couldn't get parts, and so they turned to MicroShift. And so a lot of the entry-level mountain bikes, particular, um, like specialized, uh, I know for one, they used a lot of it. They they just had to, they had no other choice, they had to put micro shift on their on their bikes. Okay. It's not terrible, but it's not good either, is what I'm gonna call it.

Kristin 59:45

Are they still using Microsoft? Oh, yeah, in some cases, yeah, yeah. So it's still out there.

Steve 59:51

And Microshift is getting better, right? Okay, so as you would expect from a sort of an upcoming company in that regard. You know, we as we talked about used bikes, I would try to not get a used mountain bike with Microshift.

Kristin 1:00:08

Okay. And those were primarily pandemic.

Steve 1:00:11

Yeah, look for the ones with Shimano. Okay. Yep. Yeah, and that was primary, it really was from the pandemic. So they are tending to use less of it and they're going more to queues.

Kristin 1:00:22

Okay.

Steve 1:00:23

Um, but um, yeah, I would try to stay away from Microshift.

Kristin 1:00:28

Okay. Well, I think that's all I have except for some shop news, which is our fifth year of our women's mountain bike ride series starts next week. Yay. Next week! Is that right? Oh, it is next week. Wow. Yeah, so I'm very excited. Um, as I said, it's our fifth year. I have a really solid group of leaders who are um we'll be riding with this week to, you know, basically get them back on the trails, answer any of their questions, and then I'm hoping we're gonna have three groups going out each time. So what we'll call our welcome group, our more traditional group, and then I'm hoping this year to get an advanced group going. But I can't believe it's our fifth year.

Steve 1:01:13

Time flies, doesn't it? It really does.

Kristin 1:01:15

Anyway, just like this show did.

Steve 1:01:18

Yeah, so it is a great, great mountain bike riding group. So there we go. Yeah, join it if you can.

Kristin 1:01:26

Yes, absolutely. All right, well, let's wrap this up. Cycling Together with Kristen and Steve is a production of Steve the Bike Guy, an independent bicycle shop in eastern Massachusetts, and Sundon Marketing, a full-service marketing communications agency.

Steve 1:01:39

If you like the show, please leave a review or share with a friend for show notes, links, or to leave a comment, question, or topic suggestion. Visit cyclingtogether.

Kristin 1:01:47

You can follow the shop on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at Steve theBike Guy, and we are now available as video on Spotify and Apple.

Steve 1:01:58

Yeah. Very cool. Mm-hmm. Alright, we'll see you next time.

Kristin 1:02:02

Bye. I guess my only thing is like no, never mind, I got nothing. I got nothing.