So you want your kids to ride bikes

Before our son left for his new job in Chicago, we sat down with him and his sister to answer the question "how do I get my kids to ride a bike?" On this photo-heavy edition we share memories and reflect on lessons learned through years of riding and racing.

Thank you Anders and Sophie for sharing your insights and ideas - and letting us use pictures from the past!

We'd love to hear how you are getting your kids to ride – leave a voicemail on the "Fan Mail" link in each episode or a comment at CyclingTogether.bike.

Transcript

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Kristin 0:00

This week on Cycling Together, we are taking on the topic of how to get your kids to ride bikes. We're doing it with two very, very special guests. Yes.

Steve 0:11

Two very special guests.

Kristin 0:12

Our grown children. It's going to be a long one, so let's get this started. This is Kristin.

Steve 0:17

And I'm Steve, and you're listening to Cycling Together, a show about bikes, riding, and riding together. This week's show is going to be very visually oriented. So anybody watching, watching instead of listening, is going to have a little bit of an extra experience because of the throwback pictures we're going to be showing as we talk about them.

Kristin 0:37

Yes, I've already done the preliminary edit. We we recorded this a couple of days ago. I did the preliminary edit. There are a lot of throwback pictures. And let's give it up to the kids for allowing me to use the pictures in the past that never ever would have happened. I would have been like, absolutely not. So yeah, let's uh let's get right into it.

Steve 1:01

Right to the show.

Kristin 1:08

Hello. We are here with our children.

Sophie 1:13

Yay!

Kristin 1:15

With Anders and Sophie

Steve 1:16

You can hear that hesitant. Yeah, you can that that they have forced us into this room.

Anders 1:21

No, no, this is my waiting for stardom.

Kristin 1:24

That's right. Well, this is a big day because this is the last night of just the four of us in this home before you move to Chicago.

Anders 1:37

Yeah. End of an era.

Kristin 1:40

End of an era. But before we go, we thought we'd torture you one last time. Right. And have you on the podcast. And it was inspired by our friend who said we should do a podcast about how to get your kids to ride a bike. I don't know that we're going to try to be that strategic. Right. I thought that it would actually be funner to go. You bribe them. There you go. We thought it would be funner to maybe go through some of our memories. So those people who are watching on the video, I'm going to put photos in because I have some photos that we're going to look at. But before we get started, why don't each of you tell our audience about yourself?

Anders 2:26

Do you want to go first?

Sophie 2:28

Sure. Um, that's like a very broad, this is like an interview question. It's like tell me a little bit about yourself. That is very broad. Yeah. Your and your strengths and your own.

Steve 2:37

Yeah, I think you put that a little too.

Sophie 2:39

It's okay, I'll figure it out. Um I'm Sophie. Um a student at the University of Massachusetts Amherst for civil engineering and natural resource conservation. I've been riding a bike my entire life, mostly mountain up until end of high school, and more recently gravel. What else? I race cycle cross throughout my childhood. And what else about me? I'm not moving to Chicago. Um yeah, I'm trying to think bike related. Like I race for a while. The cycling team at UMass knows I exist, but you're not participating. I haven't really participated. More of a recreational rider now. Got it.

Anders 3:35

All right, perfect. Uh I'm Anders, graduate from UMass Amherst, moving to Chicago to work for lifetime, specifically lifetime work. So on like the gym, it's for offices and office spaces for companies.

Kristin 3:48

Such a smart model, by the way.

Anders 3:50

Yeah, they do a part they do apartments, lifetime work, lifetime work.

Kristin 3:54

Crazy. Yeah.

Anders 3:55

Uh and I just finished working at the lifetime gym in Framingham. That's right.

Kristin 4:00

Yeah.

Anders 4:01

And there's not too much. And I am the weightlifter of the Framingham.

Kristin 4:04

And do you ride a bike?

Anders 4:06

All these cardio junkies.

Kristin 4:07

Would you uh would you consider yourself a cyclist?

Anders 4:10

I pick things up and put them down.

Kristin 4:12

I do that.

Anders 4:15

Sometimes hold on.

Kristin 4:16

Yeah.

Anders 4:16

You do? Yes, thank you. You do.

Kristin 4:20

And I'm trying.

Anders 4:21

And you're trying. I'm inspired by both of you. I like riding bikes with my family and to work. Okay. Slash school when I did that.

Kristin 4:31

But generally not on your it's not your first choice.

Steve 4:36

And for those who do not know, uh, the lifetime fitness facilities that you see around the country, that is the same lifetime as um Leadville 100 and the Leadville stage race that was just happened last weekend. Unbound, a lot of marathons around the country, uh Sea Otter Classic, that is the same lifetime.

Anders 5:00

Well, also, they they do so many bike events in everywhere but New England and marathons and 5K. So unfortunately for me, as much as I avoided bike racing, I am going to have to start doing it. Not even racing, just participating in. There's like uh, you know how they have clubs at a lot of works or like yeah social groups, they have a bike social group, and I think a good networking strategy will lead me finally to riding specifically mountain bike group at the lifetime in yeah, they do, and I already joined it in Chicago.

Kristin 5:36

So, what you're saying is when we come visit with the van and our mountain bikes, we'll be able to go mountain biking with you.

Anders 5:43

Yeah, and maybe some co-workers. I don't know the situation.

Kristin 5:46

Fun.

Anders 5:47

I just pressed, are you interested? And I went, oh, yes.

Kristin 5:53

You know what? All right, so we're gonna go, we're gonna go back in time to look at some pictures, and I want to see if you actually remember some of these moments that we have. Now, the first one, the first picture we have actually is you, Anders, getting a bicycle for Christmas. We'll ignore Sophie looking sad and mad in the bottom corner. I think I look great, but um, do you remember getting this bike?

Anders 6:26

I do remember getting this bike, and this was the first bike I remember getting, at least when I had consciousness.

Kristin 6:31

Right?

Anders 6:32

Sure. Yeah, but uh, I don't know. I know how old are you there? Six, seven? Something like that. Yeah, but that was one of the first ones. And then I think the next one you got me. The next one you got me. Yeah, maybe well, it was outside. Or no, that was that's two more, but yeah, this was the first one I remember getting.

Kristin 6:47

Now, this one came from your grandfather. Papa Ron bought this for you. Yep. And one this is gonna be this is gonna be the first mistake we made getting you into cycling because it's so big.

Steve 7:04

This bike is way too big. Oh, that's right. This bike is too big.

Kristin 7:07

And so we found that oh, that's right.

Steve 7:10

Because I remember we got the red one instead because it knew him, right?

Kristin 7:13

Yeah, we got the red special because we were like, why won't he ride the bike? And they were like, Oh, because it's giant massive, massive. And so that was like, I hate to say the first lesson that I even today, when I'm talking to parents with young kids, like, I know it's really tempting to buy a bike that they'll grow into. You can't, but like you just would not ride it.

Steve 7:34

Yeah, if if the bike is starting at their bottom of their range, they're growing into the top of its range.

Kristin 7:42

Yeah, no, this is this bike is out of the range, least out of the range, out of the range. So that brought you that bike is the one.

Anders 7:51

And that bike was the first bike I rode without training wheels, right? I remember actually riding it for the first time. We what you sent me down on this path and I was zooming, but I also remember I didn't know how to break, or I was too scared to break at that point.

Steve 8:04

You were you were late on the getting the training wheels off, and that was just in your head stuff.

Anders 8:10

Can't believe you just told that to the audience.

Kristin 8:12

I think no, I think that was because we got him too big a bike at first. I put us, I put us firmly to blame for the fact that he was a little later, but it was because we tried we put it and there were no balance bikes when you guys were at least not innovation on purpose, uh mainstream. Yeah, speaking of new bike days, do you remember getting this? Do you remember this? Do you yeah, the pink bike? So before we gave you this pink bike, I actually took the red bike and it and I tried to save money and we like wrapped it in Dora the Explorer party party bags because we were like, it's not girl. You were you didn't think it was girly enough for you. So we were like trying to decorate the red special. I would have that did not work. So the hot pink specialized came into play. Specialized hot rock, yeah. That one was really cute. All right, what is going on here? Anderspawn. I don't remember this one, honestly.

Anders 9:11

I remember I know where it is. Okay, not physically, actually. I don't know the town, but I know that park.

Kristin 9:18

Right. Oh, this is the yeah. This is the Sherburne. Um, not the Sherburn, the Sudbury tri the Sudbury triathlon triathlon. It was like the tri-sprouts.

Steve 9:33

Oh, I remember that one.

Sophie 9:34

Yeah, did I do that one at some point? Yeah, because I remember I think I remember that pool because I just kept swimming into the lower.

Anders 9:40

How many dual ons did we do? So we did um because the worst part about triathlons is the transition from pool to bike. You are in these soaking, soaking wet shorts. And then they obviously my dad's like, well, you gotta get the slimmest bike seat possible because whatever reason. And I'm sitting on that thing with the wettest trunks possible.

Kristin 10:04

But yeah, yep. I think I think is the biggest issue with triathlon for me too, which is I've never gone for a swim and then be like, you know what I want to do now is jump on my bicycle and with my wet shorts.

Sophie 10:18

I don't think I've ever wanted to do anything after a swim except shower. Right, exactly.

Steve 10:23

It should be bike, swim, run.

Sophie 10:25

Well, I think part of the triathlon is the torture of doing everything after you swim.

Anders 10:29

Well, the thing I'm bringing out swim anywhere other than beginning is drowning. Yes, there it is, is drowning.

Kristin 10:36

He hit it. Yes, it's it's all about they start with the swim because you're exhausted.

Anders 10:40

You gotta make these triathlones tougher.

Kristin 10:45

All right. So this next one, this was a big jump for you. We introduced to Anders. I remember the bike.

Anders 10:52

Why do I look like I just hit my balls on the bike frame?

Kristin 10:55

You don't look very I think you're doing a like roomy, like room, room.

Anders 11:01

Yeah, yeah.

Kristin 11:01

Room, this was a looks like I missed the seat. This was a Lamond road bike.

Steve 11:07

The Lamond road bike. It was probably like a 47 centimeter, it was very small, 48 centimeters, very tiny. Yeah. I remember that bike.

Kristin 11:16

So the funny thing is looking through some of these pictures as you guys went for a ride, is um you Anders did ride with us quite a bit. When did that start to shift where riding was not something you really wanted to do?

Anders 11:31

12, 13.

Kristin 11:32

Yeah.

Anders 11:33

Puberty. Puberty. Puberty.

Sophie 11:36

The worst.

Kristin 11:37

Yeah. What are some of the so this is the other one? I love this. So you had done a race, Anders, clearly, where you had won this jersey from Cycloft. And I did not realize how many pictures of you I have actually riding this jersey. Yes. All right. Do you remember this ride?

Sophie 11:56

No. No.

Kristin 11:58

Okay, so this ride was we took you to, I think it was down in Providence, right? And um, you Anders were determined to be in front, and you were for the most part, but then Sophie decided she wanted to be in front, and there might have been a little bit of uh competition going on, and someone bore the brunt of that when your handlebars hit what did you do to me, and Sophie went down like a bag of rocks. Like she has scrapes on her.

Steve 12:31

Her teeth were like that before, right? Yeah, scrapes on her elbow, scrapes on her face.

Sophie 12:35

I'm gonna go with yes, because they're still there.

Kristin 12:37

Exactly. So um, I don't remember that. Yeah, well, that's good. It's probably the head injury.

Anders 12:43

Oh the one force trauma. Yeah. One of my biggest memories is one race, it was just you and me. And I did a grass race before we it was two races. I wasn't only I wasn't supposed to only supposed to do the grass one, and I didn't have a good time. And then the second race was just on this like circle, like a loop. And I remember I was kicking ass until some kid with I think uh what are the clips clipless or whatever was able to catch up with me, and that was the first time you introduced me to clipless pedals. You're like, Yeah, he had clipless, you were accusing the case.

Steve 13:20

He could push and pull. I see, I think that's where you won that that red jersey in second place.

Anders 13:26

I don't think I did because I remember like they were like only the first place called like a helmet or something.

Sophie 13:31

Okay. What was my first race?

Kristin 13:34

I believe your first race was also the tri-sprouts out in Sudbury. Okay. It was because your your dad was doing the um triathlon support that was a firm race.

Sophie 13:48

But firm was the name of the I'm thinking like race and more like just biking. Because I remember doing triathlons. Okay. But I don't think I quite, when I did those, was like, ooh, you know what aspect of this I really love? Biking.

Steve 14:03

I think the only thing you did as a race was was to start with was cyclocross.

Sophie 14:07

No, that's what I'm saying. What was my first cyclocross race? Oh.

Steve 14:10

I have to look back.

Kristin 14:11

I don't remember that. Uh I believe it was probably uh okay. That's what I'm thinking.

Sophie 14:19

Because that's I think cyclocross is what got me like into bikes. Right. Because before that, it was just like you guys were biking. And so, like the one, you know, that photo where I'm walking and I'm like smiling and I'm soaking wet. That wasn't my first race. I had two. That is not your first race.

Kristin 14:34

That was right here. Yes, is that race? That was the farm.

Anders 14:38

So two other boys, right?

Kristin 14:40

Yes, it was two other boys, boys. That was the farm. So there was like blue everywhere. Horrible. It was raining. Um straight mud, yes, straight mud. Uh, here's Anders.

Anders 14:51

We want to talk about that classic photo that you're like, oh, when did you stop liking it? Like, I'm old enough now that I'm in a kit with my dad's face on it in the pouring rain with a bike that didn't work. Right. And then the guys I'm racing against have been doing this for yes, who knows how long. I got my ass kicked. But I want to talk about, I don't know if you have a photo about this. The best race I've done. I joked about the start of the about bribery. Yes. The one with the apple cider donuts was my favorite one every single time.

Steve 15:23

They had this um look at those knees. They had this section where they had a bunch of rollers and so forth. And and some of them you get air on, and you came down and did this endo landing on your front wheel, and you came back and you told me about it because he held on to it. I was so proud that you I I missed this. And then one of our friends, Jeff, who's been on the podcast, he had captured the moment. Of course, that photo is up in the shop. Yeah. Spectacular. It was a great tag.

Anders 15:54

It was the race, and after the races, you're kind of stuck there for a little bit. You it with your family. Yeah. You have to wait for your different categories of racers, and everyone else is doing things, and you're just kind of waiting there.

Kristin 16:05

Yeah.

Anders 16:05

Bribery.

Kristin 16:06

Yes. Food.

Anders 16:08

I had I that one was fine because I was given apple cider donuts. Yeah. Your kids are going to be a good one. Bribery. Yeah.

Kristin 16:17

Yeah. I agree. There were there have been rides where I'm fully, I fully remember keeping you guys going by throwing chocolate at you like every 15 to 20 minutes, right? Where I would just remember that. Oh, absolutely. Where I would, I think. This one was one of those this these winter rides. I had snacks.

Sophie 16:38

The rides, yes, you did do that. But like races. No, not races. Yeah.

Anders 16:43

Well, we should talk about at some point the fat bike vacation. I don't know why we haven't done it again. That was one of my favorite ones. Because also it was, it was it was challenging. It was cold. It was so cold.

Kristin 16:54

Okay, that was so let's take a step back and and what are we talking about? So the year was 2015, 2016.

Steve 17:02

I think it was 2016. Okay. Okay. 2016.

Kristin 17:06

We had talked about doing a family ski vacation. And when we looked at how much that was gonna cost, we realized we could buy the kids fat bikes for the same amount. For less, less for less that we could do a fat bike vacation. So what did we do?

Steve 17:23

So we went to for the week, it was half spent at Lake Placid, yep, and half at J Peak. And there was a polar vortex that week.

Kristin 17:34

Yes.

Steve 17:34

So we do have a photo, we need to pull that up of us in Lake Placid. And I believe the actual temperature was negative 15-ish, negative 20.

Sophie 17:46

When we were in Lake Placid, we couldn't go outside.

Anders 17:48

We couldn't go outside. It was fine in the trees, but I remember there's portions of this ride where we would go out into the open field.

Sophie 17:55

Like the lake on a side.

Anders 17:56

And the wind would hit us, and that was brutal. But again, bribery.

Steve 18:01

We there was a water park back, like when we got things. So then we went to J Peak and it did warm up a little bit. Yes, yeah. Still cold, but it was much warmer. Yes. And the conditions there, I remember, were horrible for skiing. It's like that's what the years told us. They have fat biking there, and that was actually pretty good.

Kristin 18:23

That was good. And it was free because it was so bad. Yeah, they were just like, just go. So these are some pictures. This is you, Sophie. Um, here's Anders riding the fat bike. And um, what was funny? There were yeah, look at Sophie. She's it was funny, there would be moments where dad was like pushing from the back, yeah, pushing her along. And Anders would be like, hey now. And I was like, You can do it though, buddy. You're doing so well. Now we did have one incident. Do you remember this?

Steve 18:58

Uh that is a photo of you on the ground.

Kristin 19:03

And I were uh we were all at the intersection, and you stepped out in the intersection, and the entire was just ice, and you just went you went down so hard. Like it's it it is like burned into my memory this moment. I remember that of course it was really bad, but it was a great vacation.

Steve 19:23

It was a nice mix of being out and riding, and then you knew there was something fun afterwards, and of course, yeah, JP has that indoor um water park, yeah.

Sophie 19:33

Yeah, but I actually remember the at Lake Placid, there was a like a breakfast place we went that had like really good pancakes. Yeah, I remember that distinctly.

Kristin 19:42

Yeah, yeah. You remember what this one was from?

Sophie 19:46

No, it's a kind of makes me think of and it's not natic, is it?

Kristin 19:50

It is it the Father's Day rhyme, it's the toward Tord Natick on Father's Day. Yeah, and I think this is our first, like, we're all in the kit. In the kit. Like we all had matching kits. We were quite the spectacle.

Sophie 20:06

Spectacle to show up at the spectacle. Well, this is any time as a family we showed up matching. Do you remember that one time we were in, I think it was Stowe and we went to a beginner mountain bike ride. Yeah, and we all showed up in matching kits. And is that it? Or not, but we were all wearing kits. We were wearing stuff. Well, like jerseys. We also pulled up in the van. Was it the van?

Steve 20:31

No, no, we pulled up in the was it the Ford with the fully well, the full wrap, the minivan.

Sophie 20:38

It had some sort of wrap on it.

Steve 20:39

It had a it had a it had a wrap on it.

Sophie 20:41

People come up to us and they go, is this a beginner's ride? We were like, Yes, it still is. It still is don't don't be fooled. Look pro go slow. Yep. Yep.

Kristin 20:52

I remember that. Yeah, this one was a fun one. This was Stowe Vermont. Um, it was a great jersey.

Steve 20:58

Beers and mountain bike, like oh, it was uh beats, brews, and bikes, something like that.

Kristin 21:04

Yeah, it was a festival that we just happened to fall into. And then this was a group ride.

Steve 21:09

Yep. Yeah. As I drink a few. And you had not ridden that much honors, and then you crushed it.

Sophie 21:15

Yeah, you did. There were so many switchbacks on this ride. I remember. I was so bitter.

Steve 21:20

You rode up Katie Hill like it was nothing. That was a fun one, right? That was a really fun one.

Kristin 21:25

Except I remember what is that? What is that that we're looking at now? Switzerland! You guys rode mountain bikes in Switzerland.

Anders 21:33

That was so fun.

Sophie 21:34

Yeah, I'd say mountain biking is kind of a strong description. Um, but as I know mountain biking, I wouldn't classify this as mountain biking, but we were on mountain bikes.

Steve 21:44

We so we took a gondola up the mountain in um somewhere near uh Lanterbury, and then basically rented bikes. Um well, we rented bikes at the bottom, took the gondola up. Up and then we rode across the ridgeline to the end of the valley and then down basically the road back into town.

Sophie 22:08

So cool.

Steve 22:08

Yeah.

Sophie 22:09

I will say this what this makes me think of on the topic of like how to get your kids to ride, yeah, is I would say like find out why they want to ride. Yeah. So what I think about a lot is like with Anders, whenever we go on a trail, you're always like, we can't take the same way back because I don't want to ride somewhere I've already been. I don't want to see stuff we've already seen. Yeah. So there for the sights. So yeah. So like if like your kid wants to ride to see stuff, yeah, then one of my favorites. Orient your rides around the site from Sophie. Yeah, orient your rides around like landmarks. So this photo is like a really cool graffiti building. Switzerland was for the scenery, but just like make sure, like if they're not riding just like for the lower. Always go for a different country for your rides. Yeah, yeah. Travel often.

Kristin 22:54

This one is this was fun. This was January 1st. So it was the first of the year. We decided to go out. It was down at Wampata where they have these old military buildings. Yeah, with amazing um graffiti. Yes. And we were like, I think that's actually how we even pitched it to you that this was gonna be a great place for the gram. Exactly. Exactly. Is that how we pitch it to you? You cater, yeah.

Sophie 23:18

We were like, there's gonna be so many cool pictures.

Anders 23:21

I have only two posts on my Instagram.

Sophie 23:22

But great for the gram is more a way of saying it's cool.

Anders 23:25

It's cool. Yeah, it wasn't that I thought you were gonna like go all Instagram, but it was just yeah, it's one of my favorite, and also still my like one of the only things I've ever posted on my Instagram because that is one of the coolest pictures we have.

Sophie 23:37

Okay, and I will say, I think why I got into biking is because I started racing, and racing really catered. I'm uber competitive, like I'm extremely competitive. We can't play board games in our home. Well, we can now. We can now. I've matured when I was young. I was not so much fun playing board games. There's definitely because I was super competitive. So racing really kind of tapped into that competitive aspect of my life that I really enjoyed and gave me something to work towards.

Kristin 24:08

I also think in the racing thing, there definitely was a male-female difference in that when you race, yes, you basically were guaranteed to win.

Sophie 24:18

Oh, absolutely. It was like there were four of you. Yep. There were there was four of us, Max, and two of them are my teammates, and the other ones like three years younger than me.

Kristin 24:27

Yes. Where Anders, when you started, first of all, you started a little later than she did. So there were already people that had been riding. They were kitted, man. They were like to your point. Auntie had the clipless already. They had to and and there were just a lot of them. There's just a lot of it was a it was a different experience.

Anders 24:48

Like the culture, too, with that, those guys, they sucked. Get close. They sucked. Uh they were they were kind of pricks. Like, I would try to like, I would see, like, and then you would try to get to know them and be like, I'm just here to like burn rubber and kick butt. Like, right.

Kristin 25:06

Yeah, there was just a different, there definitely is a different vibe. I've even talked about like because I think there was a time where I thought we could bring you back to it, and I was like, but I wouldn't bring him in as a junior, I'd bring him in as cat cat five. Like it's just because they're just ears because of the attitude.

Sophie 25:24

Your attitude was like, we are here to race, and all the junior, the junior boys were like faster than the cat five men. Yes, yeah.

Anders 25:33

Yeah, right.

Sophie 25:34

They were insane. That's right.

Anders 25:35

But one thing though, and this is like based on like you know, the individual who you're trying to get, your kid. Right. I didn't have any competitive drive when I was younger. Right.

Steve 25:44

That's true.

Anders 25:44

Yeah that has since changed, but like I do wish there was some drive to actually be like, oh, you don't want to talk to me? Like, that's fine. Yeah, right.

Kristin 25:53

Let me yeah, you're right. At the time, that wasn't a motivator for you. No, I you were more into the experiences of things.

Sophie 26:00

And yeah, I will say because we had our own team, and Anders was part of that team. Like you said, though, there were like four girls, and then you and like one other guy, maybe, but then he left, or I don't know what happened to him. I don't know. It might have been beneficial to put Anders on another team to then have a community at the races because he was kind of isolated from the other teams. Because you know, you go to these races and all the kids are at their tents with their teammates, whatever. Yeah, absolutely. And here he was with his parents, uh embarrassing, and his little sister, embarrassing, right? And the three other girls, the two other girls on the team, embarrassing. Yeah. So it could have been useful. I didn't think about that.

Kristin 26:43

Yeah, to put him on a team other than Steve the Bike Guy, so he had a different, a different experience. And it might not have been cyclocross, right? Again, like mountain bike might have been a better community, a better community. They're I think they had a slightly different attitude about it. And I also think that the racing is different, it's a little more different, you know, because they're longer races.

Steve 27:07

If New England knew cycling existed at the time, there's would have fit in fantastic with that.

Sophie 27:13

And also, mountain bikers, from what I've gathered from working with them as both uh children, like my campers, and then also working with um adults as my coworkers, um, shout out hail. Um, they aren't always completely like obsessed with time. You know, like cycle cross is like just how fast you can get through it. Yes. Like mountain biking is so much more like take your time on this one feature, try a new thing, like learn a new skill.

Kristin 27:42

Like, or when I would ride behind the mountain bikers, like at a race, say landmine, right? And I'm racing it, and there's these teenage boys in front of me. And I'm like, if they stopped bouncing off of stuff, they would go so much faster. But yeah, they're not fun. That's not what they're doing. Where cyclocross, I think, was a really we put you into two weird ones. I mean, the the first one that your dad tried to put you in was criterium. Yeah. And you know, I think this is just the learnings, right? That which was the first child.

Sophie 28:15

Yeah, first child.

Kristin 28:18

I turned out fine. Right? But like, here's a picture of the criterion race we brought you to. Look at how hard that guy's going again.

Steve 28:26

There was a learned there was no children here. What is the category for your age? You never no other boys showed up your age. So they were like, well, you can go out with them. That's that's competition right there. Did so great. And you just with an integrity park in Rome, which is an old era old runway area, so closed, old circuit, you know, no cars whatsoever. So good. Yeah. So cute. And they just basically kept laughing you, and you just basically did your laughs.

Sophie 29:01

You being it was like kids what? 17 by a oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve 29:07

Yeah, yeah.

Sophie 29:08

Like, I remember watching.

Steve 29:09

You were 10 and you were up with the like 16, 17, 18-year-olds.

Sophie 29:14

Oh, but look how proud I am. How proud you are of him. He looks like a corpse. You did no corpse. That's so funny. Well, this reminds me of that photo. I don't know if we have it here, but when I did the race at Really Rad, is that what it was? And I was the opposite. I was like 12, I was like 12 or something, right? And I had my see the bike I can on. I had my clip with pedals, I had my skin suit. Okay, because I loved the skin suit, unlike this one. I felt so cool. And I was with like a bunch of eight-year-olds.

Steve 29:51

Yeah, for whatever reason, the the age, yeah, the age range they had was was a just it was a wrong group. Yeah. So the you were you were in the you were in the correct age group, but the girls who were there were at the bottom and you were at the very top.

Sophie 30:04

And also, um, I had been riding, I was like honors worse nightmare. I was one of those kids that have been riding for a while. My dad owned a bike shop. Right. You're really kidding. So then I went up a class and I rode with um didn't I? Yeah, yeah.

Kristin 30:19

And and they all looked because we had asked, and they were like, no. And then they looked, and then we lined you all up, and they were like, or maybe yes. Maybe you're gonna be standing there.

Sophie 30:33

Like, let's be clear as shown by my pink specialized, I love my pretty bikes, somewhere, right? I have that picture. I love my pretty bikes, but I was surrounded by bikes that had like the streamers on the handles. Like that's what we were looking at. The chain guard covers, you know, like that's what we were looking at. And I was like, I'm feeling like maybe you don't belong here. In like a like a go-me kind of way, though.

Kristin 31:02

Right? Absolutely. This one, this is actually uh this was another one where I think we got a good picture and we had a good this was during the pandemic, which I can tell because we all are have our our books just in case we ran into someone in the woods, like the far forest jersey, right? This was a good day. This was a good day out on the bike.

Sophie 31:24

I'm gonna be honest, I don't remember this day specifically. Yeah, I don't either. I don't, but I remember rides like it.

Anders 31:31

I remember that one also because why the f what was I where I was like, oh, I don't want to be in bike stuff. No, the other one, the one you just wiped in.

Sophie 31:37

Yeah, you didn't want to wear bike.

Anders 31:38

I don't want bike stuff, and that just ended up being uncomfortable.

Kristin 31:40

Yeah, okay, let's talk about that. Because so this clothing that's in Raleigh's. This is actually in Raleigh. We were visiting, I love that trail, and we had, I think we had gotten you to get this is the Surly, so this is a hardtail flat bar bike, which I think you like better. I think that's also like finding the bikes that yes, I like I think we like very different bikes.

Sophie 32:04

Yeah, yeah. So, like I did mountain biking for a while, but my bike was my bike carbon? Yes, my bike was lighter. I hate, I don't think that's why I enjoyed fat biking. I cannot do heavy bikes. Uh-huh. I don't like how clunky fat bikes are. I know I'm so spoiled, but I don't like like clunky bikes. You know what I'm saying? So then once the pandemic started and we actually started doing road riding because the roads were so empty, and then now gravel, I'm realizing that like I really like how sleek those are, and like the speed of those rides, I guess, is very satisfying to me. Um, I do appreciate mountain biking for the you know the skill of maneuvering and and the bike handling skills that are required, but I think he enjoyed mountain biking more than I did.

Anders 32:48

Yeah. Well, because my favorite was um uh downhill mountain biking. Yes, yes, I remember that. Yeah, I love downhill mountain biking.

Kristin 32:56

Yeah, and we haven't done enough of that, and I think some of it is I was I'll admit, to some fear of you hurting yourself. Both of you, yeah, you know, um, especially because we tended to do it during lacrosse season, and so we didn't want either of you to hurt yourselves since cycling was not your primary with stuff like that and fear of like getting your kids, you know, kids.

Anders 33:25

Unfortunately, you have to do you have to push it aside just a little bit a little bit. I broke it because like yeah, go ahead. I mean, with the stories of you two and you learning how to ride bikes, like you weren't thinking, like, oh, what if I get hurt?

Steve 33:37

Well, the only reason we didn't go downhill mountain biking this summer is because of mom being fearful of you getting hurt. Like what? Yeah, you gotta stop with that.

Anders 33:46

You gotta cut that out. Sorry, you gotta cut with that.

Sophie 33:48

Don't do that. Sorry. How to get your kid to ride a bike, let them. That's absolutely fair, and it's unavoidable. Like I broke my shoulder blade popping a rock at hail, which is like not super mountainous, it was just a a low front tire, landed it wrong, tucked and rolled.

Kristin 34:19

You know, Anders, if you were going to go come back to cycling, let's say, what kind of cycling do you think you would oh mountain biking? Mountain biking. Mountain biking.

Anders 34:31

Okay, okay, because I'm still about the sights. Yeah, think about think about our trips. Think about when we go on family vacation. Like one of the things that you're like, oh, what does Anders want to see? The sights. You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh, I want to see cool stuff, I want to see nature. Road riding, I think, is the worst. I'm gonna say it right now. I'm gonna say it. This might offend some people. I think it's the worst. I'm sorry. Unfortunately, the American American road infrastructure is not set up for you guys to be there.

Sophie 34:56

Terrified.

Kristin 34:57

I will say, terrified the idea of you commuting to work on your bike. That's a little different because that's a grid system.

Anders 35:04

It is, but it's a grid system, and mountain biking is just it's me, worst thing that's happening. If anything is gonna hit me, it's gonna be a tree.

Kristin 35:13

That technically you hit. That is my feeling on mountain biking, is that the I like it's not that I'm not gonna get hurt. Obviously, I've gotten hurt. Um, but it's largely gonna be because of my error and I've hit a tree, not because not because it doesn't eat today and just pancaked me.

Sophie 35:32

Yeah, but see, I find that so interesting because I find the mountain biking, I'm not seeing the scenery, I'm seeing the few feet in front of my tires. Oh, because you're looking down. Because I'm looking down, because I'm or not looking directly down, but like the focus on not hitting.

Anders 35:49

Well, that's important to like stop. And you know, you get to a spot where there's a bunch of graffiti in buildings and you take some sick ass photos.

Kristin 35:57

Well, and I think maybe that's where Sophie likes, and where you might find that you like that gr that gravel or mixed terrain thing, because that can kind of bring together the best of mountain biking and road riding because I've been liking gravel. The gravel is dirt roads, single track, scenery, scenery, no to less cars.

Sophie 36:20

Last summer we did the Green River ride, the three of us, and I did the 50 by myself. Yeah, and I loved that ride. It was so nice. Most it was on a rail trail for a little bit, it was on a road for a little bit, but most of the time it was on this gravel road down a river in western Massachusetts, up to Vermont, and it was me and my new friend Michael Phoenix, and it was he just gave me a kudos the other day. He's great. Um, it was just us on this, on this. We were just talking, and it was just the river, and the only thing I had to worry about were potholes. Yeah. And we just like went and that feeling of just going and like the wind, and like we stopped occasionally when I was like, Can we take a picture with this bridge? And but like that was like a one-time thing, yeah, you know, and so I find that interesting that we like those for different reasons.

Kristin 37:13

Now, do you think that um our being into cycling had as much as we were had any impact on you beyond cycling? Like, or just you're both very into fitness, you're both you both go to the gym. I think you understand the importance of good nutrition and good fitness. Do you think that comes from watching us?

Anders 37:37

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think yes, from you guys being active, but also buy also at grocery stores. We I remember Cape Cod chips being like a huge development during COVID. You're like, oh we're we're letting loose. We got Cape Cod chips.

Sophie 37:52

We were the house stuck in this house. We were the house that like when you wanted dessert, you like grabbed a bowl of semi-sweet chocolate chips, you know? Like, right, that's true. We're not cooking, but more that you guys wrote all the time, but also obviously you guys made us do sports our whole lives, which I think was really important. And I think part of the reason we went through with those is also because you guys were so active, you know. And then um, it's always good to have something that keeps you moving outside of a sport because I know, especially for a lot of kids, I'm gonna speak specifically to girls for a second. Most girls quit their sports around like 13, 14 for a variety of reasons. Puberty again. Always comes back to puberty. Um, but just you know, bad coaches or mean teammates or things like that. So, like having a thing that keeps you active that you don't necessarily need to depend on other people to do, I guess, like cycling. Okay, I think is an important thing to have. And then also to become like a self-starter in that sense. That it's like, oh, I'm not being active because I have to go to practice every weekday. I'm being active because like this is something I want to do as like a social. I don't know. But yes, I will say, like, you guys being active has definitely made a good example for us. And then also, I think it rubbed off on your parents because then you guys got them e-bikes, and I know they used those all the time, and they're already, I think, abnormally outgoing and active for grandparents. Yeah, like my nana swims all the time, Papa goes is active too. Does he swim?

Kristin 39:35

No, he does the elliptical thing.

Sophie 39:36

Yes, but he likes they do things, yeah. But then you got them these bikes and now they're doing another thing, you know? And it's like, I just think that's I think that's cool. So that's my answer.

Kristin 39:46

How do you Anders? How um was it when you were younger and there was starting to have a divergence? Because I always struggled, I will say, when you did start to say, I I don't want to come to this thing, I don't want to ride bikes, right? I struggled with I should make him come. I should make him come. And respecting the choice and saying, well, he wants the space, that's not what he's interested in. Um how how do you I guess how do you think we navigated that? Maybe what recommendations would you have for a parent who's who's kind of the same thing's happening.

Anders 40:25

I think that goes back to the competitive fitness again and willingness to try new things. I think I was at a I was a very anxious kid growing up, and unfortunately there's nothing to be done about that. I would say try to push me more if I would say anything to do these things, and just be like, get your ass out of the basement and go. That's easy, that's easier said than no. It's easier said than no, and I had to find my competitiveness and drive to do things on my own, which is there's something to be said about that, but I I think you just I mean, as I am wrong with the other.

Kristin 41:03

I'm not looking for validation, I promise.

Steve 41:05

I mean, we also entered our competitive cyclocross phase around 2013-ish or so. So you were just you were just become just becoming a teenager and so forth. And I think if we had maybe lessened the competitiveness and done more recreational biking, I think that would have might have been better. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kristin 41:28

Hindsight's and I don't want to say regrets because I just think we are just more like how did you navigate in it? Yeah, more what did we learn for someone else, right? To be like, I I think we always did a good job of giving you space. And my thing always with Steve was like, regardless of where he is on his cycling journey, there has to be a bike ready for him at any time.

Anders 41:50

I think my big thing is if I have kids, is I'm going to drag them kicking into and not in like a like yeah, more bribery. Maybe not even bribery, but cycling was so specific. You know what I mean?

Kristin 42:04

Yes.

Anders 42:04

I think just dragging them in general to like let's say they don't want oh, they don't want to go bike riding. Fine, we're going frisbee golf. You know what I mean? Like we're we're we're dragging your ass out of this house no matter what. Got it. Yes. Uh get off the Wii. We're going.

Sophie 42:22

Get off the weed.

Kristin 42:23

But if I was like, if I was dating yourself, man. You know what I mean?

Sophie 42:27

Like the Wii 27.

Anders 42:29

Like, you know, it find give them like options. You know what I mean? Or it's like, okay, you don't want to go cycle crossing, right? Or road biking. What about so and so? Yeah.

Sophie 42:41

So maybe more just building the habit of doing something rather than pushing just for biking.

Anders 42:46

So like they're like, you guys were like, we're doing this, we're going biking with the family. Are you coming? Yep. And obviously, you can't always be the flexible, like, oh, this one or one kid didn't want to do that. You know what I mean? But like, I don't know, pitching more, shooting in, shooting what like it's about the illusion of choice. Yes.

Kristin 43:06

Oh, I like it. The illusion of choice. You can do either do mountain biking or gravel riding.

Sophie 43:14

Okay. Or it's like, oh, we could go do this thing as a like we could go for this ride, or you know, house is kind of in disarray.

Kristin 43:23

We could stay home and the internet's off until 2 p.m.

Anders 43:31

So you know, circle.

Kristin 43:35

Circle.

Sophie 43:35

I forgot about I didn't forget about circle.

Anders 43:38

That's I was living in a tyranny.

Sophie 43:39

Oh my gosh.

Anders 43:40

There's a tyrant that controlled our internet. I totally turned it off at 10 p.m. or whatever.

Kristin 43:45

That's right. You blame Manic Mammies for that because I'm pretty sure somebody gave that to me. Of course. And I was like, genius. The internet is an evil place. What other tip would you have before we before we wrap this up? Because we've got to clean this house.

Sophie 43:58

Or we could go on a bike ride.

Kristin 44:00

Or we can go to the bike or do you have any other tips that somebody if somebody were to ask about getting their kid to ride a bike? Hmm.

Anders 44:13

I feel like I gave all my tips. Bribery and we didn't go for the body. Oh, that's right.

Sophie 44:24

I loved that ride.

Anders 44:26

Uh Sophie pissed me off at the end, though, because we just rode like almost 20 miles. And Sophie's like, This is a great no no no no no no. That's not 20 miles. No, no.

Sophie 44:35

We rode 19.1 miles. Let's set the stage. We were where? We were in Acadia.

Steve 44:41

Okay.

Sophie 44:41

And we had just decided to do the carriage trails in Acadia. Yeah. And this one was like, you know what, guys? As a surprise special for you, I'm gonna wear a full kit.

Anders 44:53

I want to wear a kit. Yes, full kit. It was our anniversary. It was your anniversary.

Sophie 44:56

It's like, I'm gonna wear a full kit. I remember great. It was beautiful, it was scenic. It wasn't mountain, it wasn't road, it was like a nice in between. See, there's gravel, honors. It was awesome. It was good. No, it was great. It was a lot of elevation, I remember. Yep. Um, it was a decent amount of elevation. Yeah, we killed it. We did, yeah, so we did 19.1 miles, and we get to the end, and this just speaks to I think both of our characters. Yes, we get to the end, and honors is like, oh my god, I can take these bib shorts off. And I go, I need 0.9 more miles. And so I literally lapped this tiny little island in the parking lot.

Anders 45:35

You're missing something.

Sophie 45:36

I think 40 times.

Anders 45:38

You're missing, you're missing something.

Sophie 45:39

I did.

Anders 45:40

The the part that annoyed me before you started lapping, right? Scared was you're like, let's go. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I will join. We'll join. I'll join. Like, let's go. Let's do 20 miles.

Sophie 45:50

Let's finish 20 miles.

Anders 45:52

And you decide to go down one of the steepest hills, which means now we have to go up that steepest hill.

Sophie 45:58

Because I think at first I was gonna try to ride out, not just in the parking lot. I was gonna just ride.

Anders 46:04

And then we got we stopped because there were some kids who weren't wearing their helmets properly, and uh their parents went around. So our mom stepped in to adjust their helmets. Yes, I remember this.

Kristin 46:15

Oh, because one of them they had stopped to ask you for help. Mechanical question. The mechanical question. And this woman's helmet was just completely back. And so I was like, I'm so sorry. Well, I'm gonna be a mom. I'm gonna I'm gonna mom you and I'm gonna fix your helmet. And she was like, At least someone will mom me. It was like the saddest moment. She was like, we were like, I was like, okay, doing a hug too. Like, and I know you love those moments when I just oh yes, I remember I made you all come with me.

Anders 46:46

Oh, no, no, no. I wanted to. I wanted to, and then and then we had to go up the hill, and I'll and then we still didn't have enough.

Sophie 46:54

So then I started doing my laps in the parking lot until I got 20 miles.

Kristin 47:00

Oh my goodness.

Anders 47:03

Yes, it was a little bit crazy. It was just these two. Me and dad, me and dad were just like, oh my good, they're still going.

Kristin 47:10

They're just because what is the I will say I was like 19 versus 20 about rolling up to the full or the half.

Steve 47:19

Oh, if I'm if I'm under a half, then I don't bother. If I'm over the if I'm over, no. Yes, yeah, if I'm over half, but I'm on a bigger ride, then I will try to get the the even number. Big number. But if I'm ending in like a parking lot and I'm then it's uh maybe maybe two tenths of the five. There was another issue.

Anders 47:39

There was another issue, and the biggest issue, honestly, is again like the carrot on a stick. Uh, we just got to our car. Right. And sweet treats and coffee were promised. Yes.

Sophie 47:50

Oh, and now I'm taking your time.

Anders 47:51

She would now that just the tree, the tree was right there, and now I have to watch her like sheep, like go around, like you were counting sheep. I'm like, how many and distracting? We'll get your coffee soon.

Kristin 48:05

Right. Even the dog was like, Can we go now?

Sophie 48:10

So bribery, bribery, competitive.

Anders 48:15

Options, options. There's so many forms of biking.

Kristin 48:18

Find out what your kid wants, what drives your child. Yes.

Anders 48:23

And let them ride the bike.

Kristin 48:24

And let them ride the bike. Like you're absolutely right.

Anders 48:27

Like, if your kid, if if you want your kid to get into biking and you list all the options to them, and they do choose the one that's slinging themselves down a mountain.

Steve 48:36

Yep. Okay.

Kristin 48:37

Let them drop on a helmet.

Anders 48:39

Let them mess around and find them.

Kristin 48:41

Two times we did downhill mountain bike riding with you, you crashed.

Anders 48:46

Okay.

Kristin 48:47

I just went to the body.

Anders 48:48

Let me back on one of them. Okay, good. Because I remember we did three or four runs. You did great. And we it was fine. We were doing a good time. And I on like the fifth run, dad goes, be careful on this one. Or something like that. You're blaming me. We've done so many runs before that. And then I I I lay it on my shoulder. I bit it. And I was like, Why would you tell me that?

Sophie 49:11

Well, this is like I went downhill mountain biking for the first time ever without you guys. That's right. I went with my co-workers from Hale and they tried to kill me. I'm convinced. They were like, no, you got it, you got it. I'm on my 120 cross country mountain bike, my Scott Spark, and they take me down reef, reef drop or whatever. If you've gone to Highlands, drops in there. You know what it is. I'm riding, I'm riding. Oh. They've disappeared from the horizon. I wonder where they went. Okay. You didn't stop. No, I go to stop and then I go straight down. It's like a 15-foot drop or something like that. Yes, I'm being serious. Yeah. And they were like, oh yeah, Sophie, go around. Really? Really? Because also the ride around was still my butt was touching back tire. That's how far I was sitting back in my seat. Right. And then also they took me down, it might have been lunch lady, I don't know. It was something like that. But I just absolutely punched a tree, ate it. Oh my gosh, I remember this so distinctly. It was just sheetrock. Just an entire, just the entire turn was just smooth. I think it rained too. So just slip and slide. And I was just going down it basically sideways. And then I just punch a tree, captain hook my my brake lever. Yeah. Do you remember this? Oh, I do. And I have a huge like gash on the top of my um handlebars. And I was like, okay, cool. I think my finger joints hurt for the next like four weeks from just the leave off.

Kristin 50:51

I looked to get I got to the bottom and I was like, and do you remember when Anders went to go work for public lands and they had a thing on your name tag that asked you what was your favorite outdoor space? And what did you say? Was it Thunder Mountain or whatever? You said Highland. And you came home, you were like, I gotta change my name to Highland.

Sophie 51:16

You're like, I like Highland. Like not like that. Not like that. Exactly. Not like that. Yeah. All right.

Anders 51:23

There were some jumps on that thing where you're like, oh my god. How's the death toll here?

Sophie 51:28

Yeah.

Kristin 51:28

Oh my god. If we went back, I will say, I would love to go downhill mountain biking with you. Yes. Um, I would go to Killington.

Sophie 51:36

We've never gone to Killington. Yeah.

Kristin 51:37

I would go that was more fast year.

Sophie 51:40

How was it? It was great.

Kristin 51:41

Well, because we did uh it was more of a less, less like sendy.

Sophie 51:46

We went to Canada. Do you remember that? Yes. That was good too. Yeah. It wasn't that same kind of very just flowy. Oh, yeah.

Anders 51:53

Yeah.

Sophie 51:53

Yes.

Kristin 51:54

So that's I would take you there.

Sophie 51:57

Cool. That was really awesome.

Kristin 51:58

Absolutely.

Sophie 51:59

But yeah, I think the biggest tip is just like find what your kid wants out of biking. Is it community? Like, would it have been beneficial to put your kid on a team? Do they want to meet other kids? Yeah. Is it competitive? But then again, be careful with that because remember when I started racing and I was like, fourth place is just the first loser.

Kristin 52:18

Like the first time you went, do you remember your only, your only what is now N U Y C race?

Sophie 52:26

Oh, the mount the mountain bike race?

Kristin 52:27

Mountain bike race.

Sophie 52:28

What was it?

Kristin 52:29

Snake something? It was Snake Den. Snake Den in Rhode Island. It rained. It was but it was the first time you raced with more than three girls.

Sophie 52:39

More than three girls. And it was my first mountain bike race. And mountain bike and sago cross are entirely different racing styles. Yes. And I just burned myself in the first 45 minutes.

Kristin 52:50

We didn't have you on a team. We had you part of like kind of you were part of a team that didn't have any practices or anything. Didn't have any practices. I didn't meet anything. You didn't know anything about racing.

Sophie 52:58

Nope. Didn't know anything about racing. And I cried. Crossed that finish line with tears on my face, but it was raining, so it didn't even matter. Yes. Um, super muddy. Never went back. I did one other mountain bike race, and I was the only girl in my category. So I got a pie glass. There you go.

Kristin 53:18

All right. Well, we're gonna wrap this up. Wow. Wow. Wow. Thank you for coming on the show. We're gonna have to go find some riding out in the Chicago area.

Steve 53:28

Yes, we are. It's flat. It's flat. It's a lot of fun.

Kristin 53:31

I heard there's a mountain bike.

Steve 53:33

I think we're gonna have to just travel a little north. Yeah, I know, into Michigan. It's flat.

Kristin 53:37

So what it sounds like is understands a mountain bike.

Steve 53:42

Right. Yeah. I have one for him.

Kristin 53:46

What's my one rule?

Steve 53:47

Of course you do.

Kristin 53:48

Always has to be a bike. Always has to be a bike ready and available. In fact, with pedals on it. Your bike is hanging out in the garage. All right. We'll bring it when we come to Chicago.

Steve 53:56

Perfect.

Kristin 54:03

Okay, we're back. Um, quick update. Anders is on the road. I've only cried a dozen times in the last three days. So we're gonna try to hold it together for the rest of this episode. But I thought maybe you and I could, I don't know, just take a moment to reflect on some of the things that the kids said. And again, I don't I don't want to put this in like a regret situation. You can always look back. What did they say? Hindsight is 2020, right? You always look back and think, oh, we should have done that differently. Perhaps we should have pushed him more to come out and ride with us. Right. Perhaps we should have uh not we were all so into cyclecross. It was us and the kids, yeah, or one kid and our friends. And the other element we didn't talk about is it was bike shop business. You were growing your business as a bike shop through cyclecross. So going to races, while all very fun, had a business component. Absolutely.

Steve 55:17

Yeah.

Kristin 55:18

Um, so that's hard to be like, oh, we're not, well, we're not gonna do that because I think he did a really good job of explaining both of them, of figuring out what motivates. So for for Sophie's competition and for Anders, it's experiences that the bike allows him to partake in. And the other thing is, um our adventures are not over. That's true. That's right. That's right. I also don't want to present this like our adventures are over. Yeah, it's not over. It's not gonna be as easy. It's not gonna be as easy as being able to just be like, hey kids, get in the car, right? Right. Um, but we're already looking at what is available in the Chicago area. We're talking about bringing him his bicycle. There's actually a bike shop in Chicago, BFF Bikes, who we know the owner. And she has a great post on her site about local rides, gravels, gravel bike rides.

Steve 56:14

So yeah, it's um we're we're gonna be looking more into this. It is now that I've been you know, me and my obsession for maps and scouring over the greater Chicago area, it is a little surprising to me on how much the sprawl is in Chicago and the the the density of the sprawl. And so looking at a one-to-one scale map of the Boston area to Chicago, you would think the Boston area you know, and and six million people in the state of size of Massachusetts, we're we're very dense.

Kristin 56:52

Yeah.

Steve 56:52

But my gosh, do we have so much uh forest land and open space that Chicago clearly never uh protected and therefore it was just built out.

Kristin 57:04

Yeah.

Steve 57:05

You know, it's not it's not that they don't have some, but boy, they really they really missed a a little bit on the on the protecting more space around Chicago.

Kristin 57:16

Yeah, and from a cycling perspective, it's interesting to think about how here mountain biking is so prevalent. But I can imagine if you live in Chicago and the closest mountain bike festival is the one we found in Wisconsin. And it was what six hours away. Six hours away from Chicago. Um you you don't I guess we are it's it's uh you don't realize that we are so rich with choices. Right, right. That here in Massachusetts we can mountain bike New England, we can mountain bike, we can gravel ride, we can road ride. Um but you know, so finding his way there, I think is gonna be just really fun and interesting. And anyway, he's on the road and now he there are a bunch of recreational paths. He has the in his area.

Steve 58:09

So that's nice.

Kristin 58:10

The 202, the 404, what did they call it?

Steve 58:13

Well, there's one old uh converted L line that's a couple blocks away from him, and there's like there's a few other parks and corridors. There's one particular corridor that goes up a river.

Kristin 58:24

Yeah but you know, they say the days are long, but the years are short. And I'm gonna say that is hitting me pretty hard this weekend as we uh uh wrap up this phase in our parenting journey. I'm pretty proud of myself for holding it together for this whole conversation. So with that, let's wrap this up. You can actually share tips for how you're getting your kids to ride by leaving a comment through the fan mail link on this episode in your podcasting app. You can visit cycling together.bike or you can leave a comment on any of our social channels at Steve the Bike Guy. I'd love to hear what you're doing.

Steve 59:05

If you like the show, please help spread the word and tell three friends, or leave a review or your favorite on your favorite podcasting app. And so until next time, thank you and enjoy the ride.

Kristin 59:17

Bye. Bye.