So you want to take care of your bicycle

Steve answers bike care questions from listeners including how to clean a non-waxed chain, what's the deal with all the gunk that gets stuck in jockey wheels, and what to do when your brakes start to squeal. He and Kristin also share why it's advised (and in some states, required) to wear safety or "blaze" orange in the woods during hunting season.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Kristin 0:00

This week on Cycling Together, we, and by we I mean you, are gonna be answering some bicycle maintenance questions from friends and customers, including a particularly intricate tale of woe that I heard when I was riding my bicycle this weekend.

Steve 0:17

Very much a tale of woe.

Kristin 0:18

You ready?

Steve 0:19

Mm-hmm.

Kristin 0:19

This is Kristin.

Steve 0:20

And I'm Steve, and you are listening to Cycling Together, a podcast about all things bikes, riding, and riding together.

Kristin 0:26

But first, some sharp news. This is the time of year, it's um September, where I, as the marketing person slash maintainer of the Steve the Bike Guy themed gear, am asked to create a blaze orange shirt for um riding in the woods. Okay. And the reason for that is because um here in New England, specifically in Rhode Island, from the second Saturday in September until the last day of February, um plus the third Saturday in April to the end of May, all users of Rhode Island State Management areas, and that includes that's not just hunters, that's walkers, hikers, cyclists, horseback. Anybody in those areas are required to wear 200 square inches of solid fluorescent hunter orange that has to be worn above the waist and available in all directions.

Steve 1:25

Okay.

Kristin 1:26

And that actually increases to 500 square inches in December.

Steve 1:30

Oh, that must be December must be uh shotgun season.

Kristin 1:36

And so uh first the news, which is we are offering, we have just released a blaze orange shirt because the first thing you said was, well, we have the high viz yellow.

Steve 1:50

We do have a high vis yellow kit.

Kristin 1:52

Can't they just use that? And I was like, the the law's pretty specific. It's a hundred dollar fine, by the way. If you're in the woods not wearing the orange. Um so we took that, we worked with Verge. They're taking our high viz yellow and turning it to a high viz orange mountain bike jersey available in all the sleeve lengths. And I'm gonna be the first to say I don't think it fully meets these requirements because it's got stripes on it. It's supposed to be well, do we know if it's too 200 square inches solid? It says solid.

Steve 2:28

Well, I think by the means solid is I don't I think that you that you can't have, say, camo pattern.

Kristin 2:34

You definitely can't, definitely says you cannot have camo patterned. The other thing is um, if you wear a hydration pack, if you wear anything, you're blocking some of that orange anyway. So kind of think of that because it's supposed to be visible from the back too. The long sleeve that is two solid arms of orange. There's no black on them. So if you really want to get your 200 inches, the the three-quarter sleeve and the two and the long sleeve will help meet that requirement. Yeah. So those are now available for pre-order. Or not pre-order, they're available for order. We don't we don't stock right.

Steve 3:12

You can order those direct and they ship direct to your house. Yeah.

Kristin 3:14

Um, and by popular request, we are turning the full high viz yellow kit into a full high viz orange kit. Oh. Yes. Okay. We got a request for full light crap.

Steve 3:29

Changing the yellow to the orange.

Kristin 3:30

Everything, so it'll be the shorts and the bar and the because people want to wear it, ride it. Like one of our customers was like, I want to ride it in the woods on the roads. Like it's a state park. So the roads.

Steve 3:44

Ah, right.

Kristin 3:44

Right? I'm cutting through this the national the park. I'm on roads, but I'm still in the woods.

Steve 3:51

Yep.

Kristin 3:51

So we're going high-vis. But the question that came up was why orange?

Steve 3:57

Well, now for our trivia of the week, I guess, right?

Kristin 4:00

That's what I thought. I just thought it would be interesting because I I too have always wondered why can't I just wear I have hot pink, I have a lot of bright yellow, but they are very specific about orange. And what do we know? We did the research.

Steve 4:15

What do we know? Yes, the hunter orange, which is often referred to as blaze orange or safety orange.

Kristin 4:20

Yep.

Steve 4:21

And I mean, obviously it's distinguishable from the surroundings. Your your generally your browns and your greens of the woods.

Kristin 4:28

And the blues of the sky. And the blue sky. It has to do, I think, if you look at the color wheel, like where those colors are on the color wheel.

Steve 4:36

So that's why that's why blue and orange go together is because they're opposite the color wheel.

Kristin 4:41

Yeah. And so that's why like the construction signs are orange, because against a blue sky, those are always start the things you start to see, right? Um, yeah, and it actually was adopted in the 1960s because people kept getting shot.

Steve 4:57

Yeah, I mean, it's obviously for safety. So it's the hunters see you before they shoot you. Right. Or bow you.

Kristin 5:04

Bow you. Or slingshot you. Or yeah.

Steve 5:09

Yeah.

Kristin 5:09

Um, but we were talking about this in the van about like also what deer can see.

Steve 5:16

Right. And it turns out what it turns out that for them, reds and oranges are grays. And so that's why hunters can wear safety orange, not only and other people out in the woods, right? Right. Uh, keeping yourself visible, but while at the same time basically invisible to the deer.

Kristin 5:35

Yeah. And I think it's also partially about we've we've normalized orange, right? It's not that somebody can't see hot pink, right? But everyone you'd be safe, but everybody knows Blaze Orange. And Blaze Orange is, I I did look it up when we were working with Verge because they've they do. I have to give Verge credit. You know, our shop is not very big, like our our online shop. Yeah. We get onesie twosie orders now and then. But I added High Viz Orange and and they were very fast on getting back to me. But they actually did a print test and they sent me a picture of the print test, and I was like, oh, that is melon. Uh yeah. And so I had to, yeah, it was a cantalum. It was beautiful, but I had to, I did look it up. Blaze Orange does have its own, it has a very specific um CMYK RGB hex color. So to make sure ours was orange enough. All right. And that thing is gonna be orange. I ordered our I ordered our mountain bike jerseys, and I absolutely will be getting us the full kit because I think it's gonna be great. But it is gonna be you best like orange. Well, I do like orange. I know you absolutely do. All right, so that's the shop news and piece of trivia for those who've always wondered, because I didn't. So let's jump right into the questions. Are you ready to do that?

Steve 7:01

Yes, it is a holiday weekend. So this this week we are just just going for the for the questions and answers.

Kristin 7:09

I think people have, I mean, they want to take care of their bikes properly. And there's also a lot of advice out there, even if you're not relying on AI, right? There's just a lot of opinions out there. We will get to that, but and but it the point is there's just a lot of opinions. So here's the first one. This came from our um Slack channel. My chain is lubed with a traditional chain lube, not wax, and it gets pretty gunky and gritty after mixed terrain rides. What's the best way to clean it? I've heard those clamp-on chain washers are great. I've heard those clamp-on chain washers are terrible and should never be used. I've heard that if you just apply more lube, it'll flush out the dirt, but that was from the lube manufacturer. I've heard I should use a microfiber cloth, but that only gets surface dirt. So the question here is how do I clean my chain? And and I do want to ask about those clamp on. We've got two of them from Park Tool. They you fill it with your cleaning.

Steve 8:07

When's the last time I used that though?

Kristin 8:09

Actually, I probably used it. I don't think I've used it this year because I couldn't find it, but I do like it. Okay. Because you I don't know if I should like it, but you you put your cleaning solution in it, you clamp it around the chain, you hold the handle. It has rotating brushes, it has rotate brushes, and you just go wee, and it does look shiny when it comes out.

Steve 8:31

I wish this was a couple sentence answer. And but like all things bikes.

Kristin 8:38

This is a long form podcast. Go crazy.

Steve 8:40

Well, there we go. All right. Um, I actually those chain washers, those clamp-on chain washers, yeah, I do like under certain certain circumstances. And when your chain is really gross, there's that that's just the only way. And short of taking away, but it's a great way to do it.

Kristin 9:02

If you don't want to take your chain off.

Steve 9:03

If you don't want to take your chain off and say, um you know, put it in a pan and wash it that way and so forth, soak it and so forth. That it's a great way to do it. A lot of about what comes down for there's two things for the chains. Keeping it clean so it runs smooth and quiet. Yes. And keeping it clean so it lasts longer. So the grit and the dirt inside the rollers of a chain is what wears a chain out. Right. That's the stretch. So if you like, you know, for some people, it is worth more ease of routine maintenance, but they might have to to buy a new chain every 1500 miles. And for other people, they want to do they'll do the more maintenance and they'll they'll get three, four thousand miles out of their chain. All disciplines and so forth, and what chain types your mileage may vary. Your mileage may vary. Um, so you know, but the thing is, of course, with those clamp on chain washers, now you've got a clean solution in there, so you now you're creating basically a a waste. You know, what it is essentially a waste oil in a way.

Kristin 10:20

Oh, you mean the gook after the bigger one?

Steve 10:22

Yeah, and I'm sure everybody is throwing it down their drain, but that's right.

Kristin 10:26

I might put it into our into our. I'm usually outside, so I put it in a bush.

Steve 10:31

Yeah, don't do that.

Kristin 10:33

Okay. I didn't say that. Hypothetically, I put it in a bush. What am I supposed to do with it?

Steve 10:39

Well, really, you should put it into a container and take it to the like take it to the local, you know, wait um dump or whatever where they have a a disposal facility.

Kristin 10:49

It's like five teaspoons worth of fluid, okay.

Steve 10:53

It's technically a chemical cleaner you're using, and now it's oily chemical cleaner.

Kristin 10:58

Oh no, no, I don't use a cat, I just use simple green.

Steve 11:02

Yeah, but that's still a chemical cleaner. I mean, we all just use simple green on everything and it's sprayed all over everything.

Kristin 11:08

Okay. You know, but now that it's in a liquid, if I had just sprayed it on and like wait, there would have been fluid going, but I couldn't have caught it to now I have it in a container. Yeah. Once it's contained, I've I've made a problem.

Steve 11:22

Yeah, technically you've made a problem.

Kristin 11:24

Yes. That's about right.

Steve 11:26

Yeah.

Kristin 11:26

Okay.

Steve 11:28

So now, and then of course it comes down to lubes. Like, if you're using a wet lube, and wet lubes are generally oil-based, right? Yes. So they're all just various types of oils. Those collect dirt and gunk, and their chain looks dirty and gunky. But if you keep up on it, you can actually just get the chain cleaned by rags and wiping it down and some and some spray, spray cleaner, alcohol, that kind of thing. Yeah. And so the more you sort of keep up on it, the less you really end up needing one of those clamp on chain cleaners.

Kristin 12:02

That's what I was gonna say. The reason I haven't used the clamp-on in a while is we've been staying up on our cleaning. And so generally, we were just talking about this today. I'm gonna go downstairs after this and I'm going to spray the bike down with the pink stuff from muck off, and I'm going to hose it down, and then I will run the chain through my but I'm not gonna do anything special. Like I'm not gonna necessarily do anything heroic with the chain other than run it through my hand and a soft rag to take off some general keep it clean. Yeah, but but I'm not scrubbing at it.

Steve 12:41

No, but that also doesn't really get the grit out of the rollers.

Kristin 12:46

Okay.

Steve 12:46

Right? And well, okay, w one thing he said is applying more lube to flush out the dirt out of the rollers.

Kristin 12:52

He also said it was a little manufacturer that said it.

Steve 12:55

You know what?

Kristin 12:57

Apply more lube.

Steve 12:58

Yeah, technically technically that could actually work with a generous application of new oil-based uh lubes. Yeah, to get that'll that'll sort of basically dilute out and flush out, but I that's just that's that's messy and over Yeah, I wouldn't do that. Um and dry dry lubes are generally a carrier solution, which is bringing the lubricant into the rollers, whether it's some sort of Teflon-based lubricant, or it's a wax, or it's I'm sure there's might be some sort of graphite ones out there. But it's it's basically a carrier that's bringing in the lubricant to the rollers. And so, like a lot of dry lubes, or they might not even say dry lube, but you'll see it'll be like a bottle of something, and the lube is actually at the bottom of the bottle. It's like a white layer at the bottom. Oh, yeah. And you're supposed to shake it up. A lot of lubes you're supposed to shake before you use it because they are typically dry lubes where you have to suspend the actual lubricant in the carrier fluid.

Kristin 14:08

Oh.

Steve 14:08

Right. Oh. Now those do send tend to stay cleaner because they don't pick up as much dirt. Yeah. Um, and those as well, if you just keep up on wiping your chain down and then reapplying lube, it they actually tend to do all right. Like in terms of both uh a good combination of ease and longevity.

Kristin 14:31

Alright, so where did we end up? What is the best way to clean my chain? If you if you wanted me, I'm gonna go downstairs. And we're talking about non-wax chains. Yes, non-wax and maybe not totally disgusting, never been clean chain. We have a gravel bike downstairs that is probably four or five rides in from its last cleaning. I'm gonna go down and clean it. What would you say I should do to clean the chain?

Steve 14:58

You're just gonna wipe it down with the cleaner. You're gonna wash it. I'm gonna hose down the clean. Yeah, you're gonna hose it, you're gonna spray it with all that, all that solution. Yep. Then you're gonna you're gonna grab the chain top and bottom, you're gonna spin it through the rag.

Kristin 15:11

Yep.

Steve 15:11

Right? Cleaning all that. Um so because you are already flushing out a lot of the contaminants from the chain with the wet wash.

Kristin 15:19

Yes.

Steve 15:19

Right? Yep. Not a power wash. And then you're gonna allow it to dry, and then you're gonna lube it.

Kristin 15:25

Okay.

Steve 15:25

Yep.

Kristin 15:26

All right.

Steve 15:27

So one thing they have to everybody has to be careful about when they lube their chain and they're cleaning their chain is if you're if you're applying a cleaner to your chain, like especially a degreaser, you don't want to then immediately apply the lubricant because the lubricant is going to get broken down by the degrees that's still sitting in your life.

Kristin 15:47

The greaser's like, I'm still here and I still got work to do. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So Yeah, so make sure it has been dried thoroughly or whatever to make sure the the degreaser or whatever you use it. I don't tend to use anything that harsh. Right. I like additional. Yeah, and so it does clean it.

Steve 16:07

We do seem to our our chains do seem to last a good long time and not ever really get gunky. And I we don't do uh at least I don't think we do a lot of terri terribly uh often or complex maintenance on them. It is just more you just sort of keeping up on making sure that they look clean enough. Yeah, that's basically not over applying lube is one big thing.

Kristin 16:34

Yep, and not using anything that makes me think I need to use a mask. Like that's my thing. I just don't want to use any kind of toxic degreaser thing. Yeah, they make a lot of things. You know what I'm saying?

Steve 16:45

Like they have stuff, yeah, they make spray degreasers, which like has a very powerful spray, and wow, do those really work? Like if you've ever if you can spray a cassette with those, yeah, right, and they really, really can power off a lot of grit and grime, they would do the same for a chain and they would completely strip, you know, all out all the the buttons, but they one they're a spray, so you have all that aerosol, so you should wear a mask. Yep. Um you have to be very careful if you're doing this on the bike, you have to be very careful of your brake rotors, right? And your brake pads. It can get everywhere, they can be caustic to paint. So I they're a very specialty application that I don't recommend for most general riders to use.

Kristin 17:33

Yeah, I just don't want to have to buy all the extra stuff because I've seen them. It's like, well, if you're gonna use this, then you need to get the disc brake cover cover, and then you need to get the and I and I try to keep it at like a gentle cleaning on a regular basis. I just feel like it makes me happier. The bike seems to perform well, and it doesn't take that much, it doesn't feel like a whole procedure for me to clean our bikes. So that's what we're sticking with. Okay, that brings us to another question that that he had while we're here. Any tips on how to address jockey wheels that look more like hockey pucks than gears?

Steve 18:13

So when he's saying hockey pucks, he's meaning that they there is so much gunk built up along the sides of the the pulleys that you can't actually see the teeth anymore. Yeah. And and you may have seen sort of Instagram posts or TikToks out there of people scraping off all of the dirt off of yeah, and you know sometimes you kind of call it the kind of that like a dirt worm or whatever that comes off.

Kristin 18:37

Yes.

Steve 18:38

Um so this is a little pet peeve of mine in terms of the companies and how they make their jockey wheels. So I had gotten years ago a set of Enduro wheels aftermarket for one of my SRAM derailers, and they were solid. And so no holes. So most pulleys in a derailer, oh by the way, pulley jockey wheels, same thing.

Kristin 19:06

Okay.

Steve 19:07

Um most pulleys have holes in them. And I I don't they do it, I guess, for aesthetics to maybe lighten the weight, whatever reason. Lighten the weight. Mine were solid. Well, I'll get to that in a second. Okay. And what I had noticed then after riding um it for a while is that my my my pulleys never had dirt on them. They never got dirt built up on them.

Kristin 19:32

They were always because nothing was getting caught in those little holes.

Steve 19:36

So it turns out that the more grooves you have, the more holes you have, that picks up dirt, and then that dirt gets flung to the outside where it still sticks to the outside to the teeth, and then it just keeps building up and building up and building up. Got it. Um, Shimano on their brand new derailers, they've gone to solid pulleys. Which is good job, Shimano. Good good job, Shimano. I do wish that Saram would do this. So their their pulleys are um their pulleys are are bad in des in the design for dirt, not only because they have lots of nooks and crannies on those holes, but also because their teeth are profiled and they're and they kind of have a narrow, wide profile on some of the teeth. So you can't take like a the flat tip of a screwdriver and then roll it through because it's sort of bumpy. So it doesn't smoothly scrape.

Kristin 20:30

It doesn't let you do that fun thing you're seeing on the gram. Okay, correct.

Steve 20:34

It does not smoothly just scrape off all of the gunk on the outside. So you really kind of have to get in there and pinch and wipe and and clean and so forth. I use um a little like um uh you know, brush will really help with that.

Kristin 20:50

You know it works really well.

Steve 20:51

What's that?

Kristin 20:52

That free toothbrush you get when you go to the dentist. Oh, yeah. I have one in our cleaning kit. Right. I use that for the jockey wheels. So mine tend to we've never, I'm gonna say, since I've since I've been cleaning our bikes, we've never gotten to the point where it is so thick it needs to be because we've been dressed in.

Steve 21:08

Yeah, because we're we definitely do clean enough that it's just a few of a little bit of minor dirt that's built up.

Kristin 21:14

I almost always have a garden in there more on the mountain bike side. I I'm usually pulling grass out of it. Like it's like a little grass pula skirt. So that gets pulled out. And then I use um a toothbrush. Yeah. And I just cause I hold it on one side and then I go, pressha, pressure, pasha, pasha. Sometimes I will I will like with the SRAM ones, I can pull it down and lock it, right? So I've taken the pressure off the and that way I can really loosen it up and I can take it off the jockey wheels far enough so I can really get in there.

Steve 21:45

Now I you laugh when I said about the weight. But it but it could be that they put holes in, it takes out, let's say four grams or five grams of weight, and now it's two grams lighter than their competitor. You can get down to that kind of until you add 10 grams of mud.

Kristin 22:04

Yeah. Right. But it's not helping.

Steve 22:07

Um long hair. We should mention this. So if you have long hair, yes, you tend to lose strands of hair.

Kristin 22:17

Yes, we do.

Steve 22:18

And that hair just has a way of finding its way down to the pull derailer, wrapped into the jockey pulley. So riders with long hair who come into the shop for service, I actually have to take the pulleys out of the derailer, and I will often find hair wound up. Sometimes it's visible from the outside, and you go, oh, I gotta take the pulley off and clean it. Other times it's not until you pull off the little caps that cover either the bushings or the bearings on the in the middle that you then you find a whole string of hair wound up in the middle.

Kristin 22:50

I'm gonna tell you, that stuff is rough. I mean, I forget the bike. We have two roombases and I take care of them regularly. We have two people around here with long hair, and uh the hair is a murder on the brushes, right? Like it has actually it the rollerbrush, because it will continue to wind tighter and tighter and tighter and actually slices through the rubber, like it has destroyed some of the rubber bush, some of the the rubber brushes. Um, and I have to like fit it's enough of it gets in there. So yeah, long hair is you could slowly murder someone over about a year and a half. No. Okay. Um, all right, we have a question about squeaking or squealing brakes. Disc brakes in particular. Disc brakes in particular. Um, from someone who said, I put on new brake pads, and then within a couple of rides, my brakes are starting to squeal and squeak. What can I do to prevent that?

Steve 23:59

This is also a tough one.

Kristin 24:01

Did you come here thinking you were getting easy questions? Come on.

Steve 24:05

Maybe you were the softball.

Kristin 24:07

You get you get paid minimum wage for this kind of stuff. No.

Steve 24:12

Okay.

Kristin 24:13

This is how you earn the.

Steve 24:14

You know, so this is this is often a case where and every shop has to deal with us where customer will have this situation. Yes. And when you pull the pads, you're like, yeah, you realize that they're probably using a spray lubricant or a spray cleaner, and they're just they're getting these pads contaminated.

Kristin 24:33

Okay.

Steve 24:34

Right. And and of course, you have to deal with a lot of times where they're like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't remember spraying, you know, I don't remember doing anything. And then you sometimes you keep talking and talking through it, and you're like, Oh, well, I guess I was spraying this over here with WD40, and you're like, Yep, okay. Okay. Right? So, so you do have those circumcircumstances. Yes. And um anything with oils in it, including the like citrus degreasers, okay, right, which actually have citrus oils in them, uh, those will contaminate your rotors and pads.

Kristin 25:08

The irony.

Steve 25:08

Yeah.

Kristin 25:09

I don't think this is that situation for this person. So if we happen to know this person.

Steve 25:14

Then you have um a situation where if a if brake pads are not properly bedded in, okay, then you can develop squealing.

Kristin 25:26

And explain bedding in for the audience.

Steve 25:28

So when you change brake pads, um you need to basically so the way disc brakes work is it's not really the disc brake pad squeezing against a steel rotor. It is a disc brake pad pushing against a rotor which has a coating of the disc pad material on it. Okay. Right? If that makes sense. Yes. Okay. So it's so in order to you have so basically you have to evenly deposit a a slight film of the disc brake pad material onto your disc rotor. Okay. And the bedding in process is basically just getting up to a good speed, breaking fairly hard, not coming to a full stop before you let go, okay. And repeating that multiple times, building building heat into the rotor, and you're basically you and you you want to go fast because you really want to sort of break hard and even without coming to a stop. If you come to a stop, what you can do as if you're building up that layer of pad material is you can basically create stop ridges where you where you came to that complete stop, you've now built up a small ridge of the pad material at that point.

Kristin 26:47

Okay.

Steve 26:48

Now that might smooth out, but sometimes based on manufacturers testing like that kind of stuff can create squealing breaks. Under the right conditions.

Kristin 27:04

Right. Okay.

Steve 27:05

Um and then you just then you can have sort of glazed pads, um, which are are basically have sort of polished themselves smooth on their surface, and then under the right conditions, and when I like right conditions, like moisture conditions or or dust conditions and that kind of stuff can create squealing.

Kristin 27:27

So if you have someone who say lives near the ocean, yeah. And so they have just in general a lot of moisture in the air. Yep. You know, they're the kind of place you gotta put your bread away in a special right. And there's the dust of say being gravel riders. Yep. Um is it a situation that maybe they should be cleaning their bike right after a ride? So at the very least, the dust from the ride isn't getting gooked up with the moisture from the air.

Steve 27:59

Yeah, so they like those the the bikes should get well, anybody who lives along the ocean should be washing their bikes with fresh water. I mean, even if there's not getting near the salt spray, so to speak, but they should be washing their bikes with fresh water often.

Kristin 28:14

Okay. Yeah.

Steve 28:14

And and like especially the brake area. Okay. You know, like a soapy water. Yeah.

Kristin 28:19

And how does one deglaze a brick?

Steve 28:23

So that's this this is gonna this is an interesting part about when people come into the shop with squealing brakes. Okay. And I am only gonna guess here that most shops treat it like this. Um there are ways if it's not from contamination, all right. If it's not from um getting some something oil onto your pads. Yeah. There's there are ways you can try to fix it. The problem for shops is that the time that it need you take to try to fix it, which may not fix it, and in like then you then the like the time that you just spent, you could the the customer could have just bought new pads, so to speak. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is really, I really say recommend this kind of thing that customers should learn these techniques about their disc breaks, so because it's worth them to give it a shot.

Kristin 29:20

It's worth for them to try it, but they shouldn't expect that their shop is gonna do it.

Steve 29:23

Yeah, like if it's not worth it for the shop, it's not really worth the shops to attempt for something that mate might work. Right. Um and it might not. So um, so yeah. So shops are gonna just replace pads.

Kristin 29:38

Okay.

Steve 29:39

Right. And then hopefully bed them in and clean the rotors and all that kind of stuff. But um, so really it it just comes down to pulling the pads out, right? Um, if you see that they're now if there's like a well, if there's any sort of oily film, they're contaminated. If you see sort of a, if you can want to wipe them like across a paper towel or something and it's really sort of black, and or well, I'll use the word gunky. Any gunky, then you probably have contaminated them.

Kristin 30:07

Yeah.

Steve 30:08

Um and but if they're if they just look shiny, right? That's typically they're glazed. Okay. And so I I you like cleaning, you can clean them. Use um, you can use rubbing alcohol, you can actually just use any sort of household cleaner, really. Okay. Um, and then sandpaper. Um, and and basically you can you'll start to sand them, and it and it helps if you have the sandpaper on a table and then the pad down onto the firm surface of the table. Oh, right. Right. Yeah. Don't try to like sand them in your hand by holding the the pad face side up and then the sand, you know, sanding that way. Yes. Push it, right? So use the the the the because you want to keep the pad surface flat. That's what, which is why you want to keep it on a table. And you'll notice you keep looking at your sand a little bit, you're like, oh yeah, look, it's now starting to look like fresh pad material. It's starting to look nice and light. All the black is gone, all the shiny's gone. Um, and then you could sort of spray them down one more time or or just wash them and and give it a shot.

Kristin 31:12

You're gonna have and they and then clean the rotors thoroughly with some sort of hot okay, let's talk about that because I think there's a lot of fear of touching a rotor, like like cleaning it or or anything. Like even when I'll say that I clean the bike and again I spray the whole thing, I spray the whole thing, including the rotors, right? But I think there's this fear, we don't touch it, of course. You know, don't touch it with your fingers, don't try it. So, how does one clean a rotor?

Steve 31:41

I mean, rotors in general are stainless steel and they're very hardy. You're you really can't damage it except if you use something with oils in it. Okay. But the harsher the chemical you use, the more likely you are to basically rinse away that pad material that's been deposited on them. Okay. Right, which which is what gives you your breaking powder power. So if you just use a mild, say soap detergent, you probably won't, you'll clean them and you'll clean any oils off, but you won't get rid of that pad material off.

Kristin 32:17

Okay.

Steve 32:18

So either way, though, if you've done if you've worked on your brake pads, you're gonna need to rebed them in. Yes. So it doesn't really matter too much.

Kristin 32:26

Um you don't have to get them pristine. You don't. You can use soapy water, wash them if you want. Yep.

Steve 32:34

But it now, if if you had gotten something oiling on your rotors and you're changing your pads because of that, then it's up here. Rotors have all those little holes. Yes. Right? And they need that for ventilation and cooling.

Kristin 32:46

Those holes are okay.

Steve 32:47

But if you wipe down the surface of a rotor, there can be oils basically sitting in the the lip on those holes. So you really want to like this is this is not more than say wiping down on a with a rag with some cleaner. You want to spray these um and and get that those that oil out of those holes. Okay. Right? Because that'll just that'll just and it might not even happen at first, but as you the rotor heats up, that oil will become more liquid and then seep back down onto the rotor.

Kristin 33:18

So that's when a degreaser is something you might want to look at.

Steve 33:21

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then put the pads back in and then do your bedding in process. And there's certainly lots and lots of videos out there of the bedding in process.

Kristin 33:31

Yeah. But again, it's worth it's worth nothing ventured, nothing gained, it sounds like. Like it doesn't, it's not it's worth trying.

Steve 33:40

Yeah, before you replace pads, yeah. Absolutely. It's not worth a shop to try, it's definitely worth you to try. Yes. Yeah. And and you'll be and you might notice many times when you do this, when you start to bet in the process, you're like, wow, Mike, there's no power in these brakes whatsoever. Yeah. Right? And, you know, by the sixth time, you're like, okay, all right, the power's coming back. And then by like the 10th or 12th breaking, you know, break bed in time, you're like, oh, look, like, oh, okay, the power is really coming back now.

Kristin 34:10

That sounds crazy. It does. But your brakes are like not, they're they're pretty good, but they'll get better.

Steve 34:17

It can't be basically understated how important the bedding in process is to good breaks. You can often have quite good breaks. Everything's great with these, you know, but if they had been better bedded in, they would have actually been their, you know, their stopping power and their modulation would have been even better.

Kristin 34:36

Fascinating. All right. Let's go into our tail. Our tail.

Steve 34:43

We have a tail. Well, this is the halo.

Kristin 34:46

So a funny thing happens being to me, being the bike guy's wife, um, which I is I think people think I know more than I do. And I and I'm learning. I continue to learn. I know more than I did when you started this whole adventure. Right. So we went for a ride on Saturday, and I was just riding along with with one this other person, and he says, Hey, I have a question that maybe you can help me with. And immediately I'm like, This is gonna be for Steve. But sure, but sure, tell me what's going on, right? So he says to me, Well, it started because he was having trouble shifting. There's like that clicking that tells you that immediately I was like, he probably hasn't been derailer hanger, right? Like it's just that, it's that clicky thing that you've become used to. And so he notices that I notice, and he said, Oh, yeah. So let me tell you about this. Maybe you can help me. So I was rusty, I rest rested my bike on a thing, and when I came out, it had fallen onto the drivetrain, and the shifting started to be a problem. So I went into my bike shop and they agreed that the derailer hanger was bent, and so they replaced the derailer hanger. Yeah. But that didn't fix it. Still having trouble. So they say to him, um, and this is where his first question, this is the question that kind of led into it. He was like, they said that my chain was stretched. Yep. But I'm surprised because I check my chain regularly and I did not believe it was stretched. So let's start with that first one, which is how does one check a chain? And I know we have a chain checker tool, and I'm I'm asking this because I actually don't know. I take that little chain checker tool and I put it on and I go boop, boop, and then I realize I don't really know what I'm checking for. Like I don't know. Are both sides is are are are sides specific to each chain?

Steve 36:51

So there I mean there's a lot of different chain checker tools.

Kristin 36:54

Let's talk about the park tool chain checker tool. That's okay, that's that's what I double-sided one that is.

Steve 37:00

I don't have the part number in front of me, but it is one of the most common chain checkers.

Kristin 37:04

Yes, that's what I want to talk about.

Steve 37:06

One side will say 0.5, and the other side will say 0.75.

Kristin 37:10

Okay.

Steve 37:11

Okay. And it is, in general, 10 speed and below. Okay. All right, you use the 0.75, and 11 speed and up, you use the 0.5.

Kristin 37:22

Well, I've already learned something.

Steve 37:24

Okay.

Kristin 37:24

Okay.

Steve 37:26

And so when the chain checker tool falls into the link, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't uh stop on top of one of the rollers, it falls in. Then it's past that stretch point and time to be replaced.

Kristin 37:38

Okay. Right. So let's presume he's doing that right. Yes. And so he knows his chain is not worn. Yes. And they then say to him, Well, because he goes, I don't think it's stretched because I check it. Yeah. And they said, Well, also your rear cassette is worn. And he goes, Well, that's weird because this seems like a person too, I don't know him that well, but who seems like he's up, he's on his game with his equipment, right? Like he's checking things, he's got opinions, he he's doing his some research. And he goes, Well, that's weird because again, I don't ride with a stretched chain, I check my chain, and so it would be weird that they're beware. And they said, Well, your cassette is a dark color, which by the way, I hate a dark color cassette. They're so hard to know if I've cleaned it properly, but that's that's my own pet peeve. Yep. Um, because you have one. The cassette on your gravel bike is dark colored. It is, yes. Right? And I'm always like, I don't get that satisfaction of a shiny cassette at the end of cleaning your bike. And they said, but it's you it's getting worn because there's silver showing between the teeth.

Steve 38:41

Yeah. So is that accurate? So he does have this is a gravel bike. He has an um eagle setup. Basically, he has a one by twelve with an eagle cassette, yes, axis eagle rear derailleur, eagle chain, not T-type. Okay. Um the flat top chains from Shimano do require a certain chain checker tool that to work properly, but that's another point.

Kristin 39:08

Um assume he's doing that right.

Steve 39:11

Yeah, so uh basically any well, any of the classic chain checker tools are gonna work fine on his eagle chain. Okay. Um so it yes, a lot of those cassettes from SRAM, some of them have a black coating. On Shimano, you have ones depending on the series, the the largest cogs, the largest, the largest um one, two, or three top cogs are are coated. Okay. Right? They're because they're aluminum.

Kristin 39:42

Yeah.

Steve 39:43

And yeah, that coating can wear off a little bit, but that does not mean the cassette is worn out. Does not mean those teeth are worn out.

Kristin 39:53

Okay. Yeah. So right away, guy is is right. Yeah. Okay, so fast forward, they they replaced the cassette. $250 to replace the cassette, somewhere between $450 and $250.

Steve 40:05

Yeah, too, but I think the Eagle cassette is about $250.

Kristin 40:08

Okay, so that was replaced.

Steve 40:10

And it sounds to me like he brought them an XO cassette. I think he was about $450.

Kristin 40:15

Yeah, I think he bought one that was $450, and they said you don't need to spend that much on a cassette. Yours is $250. So they put the $250 cassette on $250 cassette on, did not fix the problem. So then the mechanic says, Well, if this doesn't fix the problem, we're going to have to change the front front chain remote. At which point he goes home and he checks with Gemini. Yep. And Gemini says, This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And I was like, I don't, I don't, you know, at this point, I'm like, you should probably talk to Steve. There's one more, there's one more piece of this. He then the end of the story is he he calls the bike shop and he says, you know what, just put everything back on. I'll take my original cassette. Um he did buy a new chain. He bought a new waxed chain.

Steve 41:11

Yes.

Kristin 41:12

And when he went in to talk to the shop, he was ready to pay for the labor. He recognized that there was a lot of work done on this bike, even though it hadn't been resolved. And so they're going through all the labor that had been done, and they say to him, Oh, and we lubed your chain.

Steve 41:30

Yeah.

Kristin 41:30

To which he said, Why would you lube my waxed chain? I actually think this might have been the part that upset him the most because he's like, now I have to clean. I bought a nice clean waxed chain. So like everything was nice and clean and unlubed, and now you have lubed it. Yeah. Um so I have, I guess, a couple of questions. Number one is when when is it as a consumer that you should recognize that maybe the mechanic you're working with doesn't really know is is stuck. These are stuck. How about that?

Steve 42:06

It is hard talking about the kind of situation. You you want to be kind, but there are certainly in every business with anything mechanical, there are places that all they know how to do is replace and not actually diagnose and fix. Okay. And that's clearly the case here.

Kristin 42:27

Yep.

Steve 42:28

When you have a clicking sh rear shifting problem and they're talking about replacing your your chain ring on your crank, they don't really know what's they're doing.

Kristin 42:39

Okay.

Steve 42:40

Right.

Kristin 42:40

There may have even been talk about and then and then we'd have to replace your derailleur.

Steve 42:45

Yeah, then right. Right.

Kristin 42:46

And how much is a derailler?

Steve 42:48

So uh 450-ish, four, four to between four and five hundred for a for an axis. Okay. Yep. Um so now, you know, you had told me a little bit of this on the road. Yes. Right?

Kristin 43:04

Because I was kind of hoping that you could at least kind of point him in the right direction of what he should do.

Steve 43:09

Yeah, we never really had a chance to get to it.

Kristin 43:10

He doesn't live in our area, so it's not like you could come back. Right. Yeah. He was pretty far. He was far away. And and I think that's part of it as a consumer. How do you stop this spin to say, when do you say, hey, is there someone else who can look at my bike?

Steve 43:27

Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, you're gonna have to go, you're gonna have to go somewhere else most of the time, I think. Yeah. Okay. So, but I did notice that I don't actually remember what his bike was now that I say that. But I did notice his derailleur hanger was ultra thin.

Kristin 43:44

Okay.

Steve 43:45

I not that was not a great design. So no wonder it bent when he when the bike fell over originally.

Kristin 43:50

And probably why they didn't try to fix it, they just replaced it. If it was thin starts.

Steve 43:55

So so a couple things come to mind or came to mind as you're telling the story again. Again. And you know, a lot of times when a hanger gets bent, if it's just slightly bent, and usually it's just slightly bent, if the bike just falls over on under its own weight, then I'll just realign it, right? With the alignment tool. But it they just run and went to replacement. Now they're probably the dealer of that brand, and they have those hangers on hand. And yeah, you know, just just making sure that you can bring a nice straight on one on there is that's a normal thing. Yeah. Just not bother try to realign, just put it put a new one on. But there are cases where I could see somebody like bent, slightly bent their hanger. Somebody else. Oh they changed out their hanger, and then this bent, slightly bent one that looks straight got thrown back into the bin somehow. And then they put on a new slightly bent hanger. Right. It can look straight from the back and it's not.

Kristin 45:02

Oh.

Steve 45:02

All right. And it can't be because you know, it's this slight click. It's not like he wasn't shifting. He was just not quite right.

Kristin 45:09

Yeah, it just was in that annoying, like it's getting there.

Steve 45:13

Just been mic micro adjusting. Like, yeah, it could have been the micro adjusting.

Kristin 45:17

He said he had fiddled with the the screws.

Steve 45:21

Oh, because see, okay. And so you don't know where like so many, so many customers come into every shop and their shifting is a little off and they play with the limit screws, which have nothing to do with the shifting uh aspect of it.

Kristin 45:40

What are the limit screws for?

Steve 45:42

So that the chain doesn't get thrown off the low gear into the spokes or the high gear into the frame. That's it.

Kristin 45:48

It's just for the high and the low. It's not.

Steve 45:50

It is it is how far the derailleur can travel in each direction has nothing to do with the movement to between the gears in between. Whoops. Yes, the wheel and frame. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So but it, I mean, it does sound to me like they just don't know how to diagnose and and correctly fix shifting very well.

Kristin 46:11

Yeah. I do think unfortunately, some um shops will also get a reputation of just doing new, you know, get putting new parts on rather than fixing. And it's it's they just don't have it's not in their income revenue stream to be able to spend time diagnosing. They they they're never gonna make the money up on the time required for the diagnosis if they can just put a new chain on, put a new derailer hanger on. You know what I'm saying? Like right. And that's that's not without I say that without judgment. Everyone has to figure out how to run their business in a way that's profitable for them, but that means as a consumer, you want to know that. You want to know how they work as a shop and is that gonna work for how you as an owner want your bike taken care of? Yeah, right?

Steve 47:10

Yeah, and then we've course we get to the wax chain part, and I could see this being I I could also see how this really irked him too. Now, I don't know what he got for a wax chain.

Kristin 47:19

You can buy pre-waxed chain.

Steve 47:24

And and people have brought those to me before, and they are in packages that say this is a wax chain. Yes, okay, it is it is and you pull it out of the package, you're like, oh, this is a wax chain.

Kristin 47:35

It is so you have to like crack it. Right?

Steve 47:37

So a mechanic who would open a package with a wax chain, put it on a bike, and then lube it is okay as such inexperience on bike on on that kind of thing that they just don't understand.

Kristin 47:51

Here's my next question. What if he, because we don't know that, yeah. What if he, the rider, put the wax chain on and brought it in? Is it easy for you to see when you just have a chain on a bike? Yes, can you tell if it's waxed or not?

Steve 48:08

That is a great question. Thank you. A great question because it there's a there's something to be said here. So if it's fairly recently waxed, yes, I can tell. Okay. Okay. But if it's if it's not recently waxed, I can't. And so it is so important when you bring a bike in to get serviced, yeah, that you tell them you you you wax your chain. And to either, like you maybe let's say you hot wax your own chain at home. So you want to tell them, don't lube my chain, I I wax it. Yep. Or you might say, um, or let's say you use a drip wax, like right? You want to say, I I use drip wax, can you please make sure you just use drip wax? Right? Would it you what if you're if you're waxing your chain, whether either it's hot, hot wax or drip wax out of a bottle, you need to tell the shop that when you drop a bike off.

Kristin 49:04

Would it also be worth you know how like when you go for surgery and they'll be like, hey, if you're gonna have your right leg marked on, they'll mark it like car? Okay, no, this sounds ridiculous. But like, because there's a process in bigger shops, right? You have the intake person, the person, the the writer, the service writer. Service writer. So maybe you did say it to the service writer. Maybe it ended up in the service. Maybe it didn't. Maybe it didn't get read. Would it be worth like putting a like something on your bike near that just a piece of tape that says waxed chain, no lube? Yeah. So that like I I'm just thinking a piece of painter's tape that you could put right on the Absolutely. You know, just to just just to make sure that that piece of information now I knew I know this was a new chain, so you might have been able to catch it, but he may have put it on himself. And so the shop may not have recognized the channel. Oh, you're not sure if I'm not sure if he gave them a new chain, I see, or if he put the new chain on and then brought the so that's the only thing we don't know. But that did bring me that other question, which is like, can you even tell? So make sure they know. And if you feel real adamant about it, a little piece of painter tape that's a wax chain. Yep. You know. Help a help a mechanic out.

Steve 50:25

Now if you if you uh dipwax your chain and they accidentally use, say, a drip wax on it, you're you'll be you'll be fine.

Kristin 50:35

Yeah, so what is this what does he have to do? So they've lubed his chain. Is how much damage does that do to the well it hasn't done any damage.

Steve 50:45

Well, to the wax, yeah, it it could basically could it's it essentially ruins your wax in a way. Oh yeah, he's gonna have to be re waxed.

Kristin 50:54

He's gonna have to rewax his brand new wax chain. Which he bought in so he didn't have to deal with that. Well, no, that's what he was like. Now I have to clean, I'm gonna have to clean the whole chain. I'm gonna have to clean the whole drivetrain to get the lube off so that I can re-wax the chain. And I bought the way. Oh, he said that.

Steve 51:17

So maybe he does wax his chain.

Kristin 51:19

And he's but he said, and I bought this pre-waxed, so I didn't have to do that. Like he didn't want to wax the chain. I get it. I don't necessarily want to be waxing my chain. He probably does wax it to re clean, redo it, but like he he made a choice to buy a pre-waxed chain. So that was one thing he didn't have to do. And now he's like, I basically have to.

Steve 51:42

You do a follow-up on this because you mean go talk to him and find out. Well, many, many podcasts ago, we talked about how we talked about waxing waxing chains and how I was gonna start waxing our chains again.

Kristin 51:54

Well, you've been waxing our chains, haven't you?

Steve 51:57

I I have. I did hot wax a bunch of our chains.

Kristin 52:00

This feels personal.

Steve 52:01

Okay, and it has gone quite well, I have to say.

Kristin 52:05

Would it define quite well?

Steve 52:07

Well, in terms of it's lasted a decent long time.

Kristin 52:11

Okay.

Steve 52:11

Um they have they are definitely cleaner.

Kristin 52:15

Yep.

Steve 52:15

Um, I'd not really pay attention to the mileage on them at this point, but that's what Strava's for. Yeah, that's what Strava's for.

Kristin 52:22

Um, and when I clean them, you then hand me, I will admit, I go, what should I use to lube? And we've been using drip wax wax to kind of refresh the wax.

Steve 52:31

We have in some cases. So in fact, it's a couple of the chains I know of I'm gonna are sort of redo for a dip.

Kristin 52:38

Okay. It's fun, it is funny after you've drip waxed it, you're like, well, that's not shiny anymore because it's white. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you're like, that is not as satisfying.

Steve 52:48

Yeah, so the late we're using a UFO, and I have to say that that UFO drip wax, I mean, you they actually want you to apply twice on the inside links and twice on the outside links. And it looks, I mean, it's it's flaky wax after a couple minutes when that when the carrier dries. So it's a way higher wax content to carrier ratio, and um, and it looks like you dipwaxed it. Yeah, it really does, yeah.

Kristin 53:17

All right, well, that's it for questions. As always, people can send in more questions. I I always like these sessions. I learn more, and maybe I'll be more useful when someone asks me a question on the bicycle. Cool. All right, before we wrap up, we made some new friends this weekend. Yeah. Um, from the podcast. We had a couple that reached out to a well, a wife, Chris, who reached out to us um after our How to Get Your Kids to Bike podcast, because apparently she and I and our husband, we are living parallel lives. They're just a couple of years ahead of us, but cyclists and whatever. And the reason I'm bringing this up is um it was so great to meet them. But as they came to the place we were meeting, we're meeting at Far Far's ice cream shop. I guess she said to her husband, is this weird? And he was like, It's a little weird. Like, it's a little weird. We're meeting, meeting people from the internet. Um, it is a little weird, and yes, I love it because as our friend Alex said, we're all just seven-year-olds running around going, Do you want to be friends? Do you want to ride bikes? Um, and we have an event coming up. We are going to the N E Y C coaches retreat in a couple weeks at Highlands. Highland Mountain Bike Park. And so I just want to use this moment to say, come say hello to us. We want to make friends. Come say hi. Yeah. Right? And maybe we'll get some interviews with some coaches, ask them for some advice. Ooh, that'd be good. I think that's a good idea.

Steve 54:41

Yes, we'll bring we'll bring the microphone with us. Yeah.

Kristin 54:44

Yeah. So that's it for this week.

Steve 54:46

Okay. If you like the show, please leave a review or share with a friend. And for show notes, links, or to leave a comment, question, or top suggestion, visit cycling together.bite.

Kristin 54:55

And you can follow the shop and the show on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. All at Steve the Bike Guy.

Steve 55:02

Okay, see you next time.

Kristin 55:03

Bye.