So you want to coach youth mountain biking

At New England Youth Cycling (NEYC)'s Coaches Retreat, we had the opportunity to connect with coaches, as well as Executive Director, Kelly Catale, to learn why they coach youth mountain bike racing. Reflecting on the weekend, we share some of our takeaways from the coaching session, as well as time spent on the trails Highland, a lift service mountain bike park.

We also return to the topic of 32" wheels - this time as seen on bikes from Scott and Trek at Soldier Hollow World Cup – and discuss how gatekeeping activities such as complicating simple things, like how to clean your bike, can prevent new people from taking up cycling.

Transcript

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Steve 0:00

This week on Cycling Together, we are talking about the NEYC coaches retreat and our weekend lift service mountain biking at Highland Mountain Bike Park. 32-inch wheels again. And how gatekeepers to cycling make Kristen mad.

Kristin 0:15

So angry. Let's get this started. This is Kristin.

Steve 0:19

And I'm Steve, and you are listening to Cycling Together, a podcast about all things bikes, riding, and riding together. But first, big shop news.

Kristin 0:27

Big shop news.

Steve 0:29

So after almost 13 years in Sherborne, the shop is moving.

Kristin 0:37

Given the news of other shops in the area, I think that's pretty positive because we've had some closures. We've had closures. Yes, you're moving. You're moving just one town over.

Steve 0:52

Yeah, five miles away.

Kristin 0:53

Uh you're moving to, believe it or not, a smaller space.

Steve 0:58

Yeah. People there a few people know, and they have all said, Oh, a bigger space. No, no, smaller.

Kristin 1:04

She's gonna be very focused on service. Yes. And I don't know if this is gonna be the final move, you know, if this is it for a while or if we move somewhere else. Right. But I it's there's a couple of facts about the current shop, including that it is in dire need of bulldozing. Bulldozing, repair the building. We don't own the building. It it needs a lot of work, it's not in great shape, and so uh we needed to move out in part so we could take some time and figure out the future. But um, I'm really excited about this new space for you, actually. Um as we've been planning it, and also I just I think you're gonna really be able to focus on the service for your your customers.

Steve 1:52

Yeah, I'm gonna be less um less distracted by so, so many things of what it takes to be in the to run the current shop and be able to go back to focusing better to my core customer base. Right.

Kristin 2:09

So yeah, so we'll leave it a mysterious for now. There's definitely more to come on that, including uh you're gonna have some ex you're gonna have some sales.

Steve 2:18

Mm-hmm. We gotta we don't wanna move stuff.

Kristin 2:20

We don't want to move stuff because whatever doesn't fit into this small shop is gonna end up in our garage.

Steve 2:25

Yep.

Kristin 2:26

And uh you're gonna be closed for a couple of weeks so that you can do the move. But I think it's safe to say that the plan is for you to be out of the current shop by the end of November. End of November. This is gonna happen fast. Okay.

Steve 2:42

Okay.

Kristin 2:43

Well, speaking of fast, it's already been a week since we were up in New Hampshire at the New England Youth Cycling Coach's retreat at Highland Mountain Bike Park. And I think let's start with the Highland Mountain Bike Park. The lift service took mountain biking first. Yeah. What about it? Um and that I had to admit that I like it.

Steve 3:07

We know you like it. The funny thing is, is that you we I know you like it, and yet you you are always hesitant about it, and then you get to do it and you go, well, that was great. Right. We went to Killington last year or two years ago. Yeah. Yes, sir, and you love and you loved it. Right. Right.

Kristin 3:25

I think Highland in particular is a little intimidating, uh, a park. And I decided it's because when you are riding up the lift, you are going over like the big air, the their track. Or course, huge.

Steve 3:46

And you're going over some really big drums.

Kristin 3:47

And these people are going very fast or very high, and you feel like I'm not, I am not going to do that, right? And we didn't. We went with our friend Chris, who's also a coach with N E Y C, and which I also think helped. By the way, I think it helped to have a friend that was not you, who was also kind of like, I just want to go on the beginner trails. And I was like, awesome. Chris and I are just gonna do that, and Steve can do whatever the hell he wants. And you stuck with us most of the time, but then a couple times you decided to. So I think that was nice. And then the other thing is um Ben from Highland, when we were talking to him, said, Oh, those are our most popular trails. Yeah. Well, that didn't occur to me that like most of the people were doing the easy trails. Most of the things. Because again, when you go there.

Steve 4:43

Yeah, most of when people do the greens and the blues on the right side of the lift as you're looking up the mountain.

Kristin 4:48

Right. So it's just I get in my head a little bit lading into a weekend like this, that I don't do it very often. And then again, this park in particular.

Steve 4:59

Well, this park is is well known now, actually throughout the United States. We talked to some um guys from Quebec. Now, Quebec city area has some of the best mountain biking you will ever experience. Highly recommend to get there. But these guys came to Highland because, as they said, we don't have places with great jump lines.

Kristin 5:23

Yeah.

Steve 5:24

You know, so again, they were there for those big hit, those those those big launch jumps.

Kristin 5:30

Which again are the most visible. The other thing is, from an equipment standpoint, when you're standing in line, you have the full face helmets and the people with the body armor and the people with those big things necks, and um when you roll up in your regular face helmet and your your regular-ish bike.

Steve 5:52

Right.

Kristin 5:52

Again, it's a little intimidating.

Steve 5:54

You know, you had plenty of travel, right? Yes for what you were doing. But and we talked about, so we we brought our full face helmets and we put them on, and we were like, should we do these? And we actually talked about that. I had mine and I said, I think I'll keep it on. And I said, No, you know what? Maybe this is a situation like I don't plan on doing anything that I wouldn't normally do on any of the local trails.

Kristin 6:17

It was also your pads. You were about to put on elbow pads.

Steve 6:21

No, I don't have elbow pads.

Kristin 6:22

Or knee pads.

Steve 6:23

You were putting on pads pads, I did wear knee pads, and I never wear knee pads.

Kristin 6:26

Yeah, but even then you were like, I don't know if I am gonna wear these pads because I feel like it's gonna encourage me to push That was the helmet. The limit. Oh, that was the helmet. Yeah, that was the helmet that made you really feel like you were gonna try to push your limit. I could not figure out how to buckle my helmet because it's like a weird motorcycle type. I don't think you've used that before. I just got fed up with it. But I do think it made us think there's a there's a phenomenon I know in Girls Lacrosse. So Girls Lacrosse, they don't wear helmets generally, but every now and then you'll see a girl with a helmet. It usually she's usually wearing it because she got concussed in the past, right? And the question always is should girls wear helmets? And there are actually studies that show when girls when the girls wear helmets, the other players swing their sticks harder, they're more likely to get hit in the head. Yeah, they play more aggressively. Um, and so there is kind of that thought, like if we were wearing those helmets, that helmet's very heavy too. And I just didn't know and I feel like it was impeding my vision. Um, and to your point, for what we were trying to do.

Steve 7:34

Which was the flow trails.

Kristin 7:35

Yeah, which is the flow trails, and it it was lovely, and it was just the repetition over and over and over again I found was really helpful. And again, to have a friend there that was kind of in the same place as I was, maybe even less experienced at it. So I have to admit, I'm admitting publicly that I I really like I like lift service mountain biking. I don't have the same feeling at the end of the day that satisfaction of a hard ride. No, it's more like I I it's more akin to downhill mountain downhill skiing. That like at the end of the day your legs are sore, your wind burned, but you don't have that like I exerted myself feeling.

Steve 8:24

Yeah.

Kristin 8:25

Yeah. So I don't think I'll be giving up my regular mountain biking for a lift service, but I would like to do it more.

Steve 8:31

Yeah.

Kristin 8:32

So um, all right, let's talk briefly about the coaches retreat. What were some of your how did how did you like it? What'd you take away from it?

Steve 8:43

Well, it was just nice being there with other coaches and talking to other coaches. Yeah. And we had a really nice, what was it for almost four-hour session um with Ben from Highland. Yep. Who clearly I mean he I mean his resume, you're like, wow, impressive. Yeah, he has gotten around the country doing a lot of different things.

Kristin 9:04

Yeah.

Steve 9:04

And he was excellent. I mean, he he was built for doing that kind of of sort of coaching and teamwork and all that kind of stuff.

Kristin 9:14

So he's read all the books, right? All the and actually absorbed the books. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, and absorbed the books and and can teach the books. And I thought one of the there was a lot of good takeaways from it. One of the interesting things we were talking about were some of the phrases that um mountain bikers use to encourage each other, and how maybe you shouldn't use them because they might be encouraging kids to push themselves rather than like you think you're like, for example, um, you know, send it. Just send it. Which oh, I see. What does just when somebody says to you just send it, what does that mean to you?

Steve 9:56

I don't know. It means go off the jump as fast as possible, pull all your arms out into the air, and you'd like and wave them like you just don't care.

Kristin 10:03

Just let it rip. Just let it go, right? Just send it. Right. What the other one was I guess a big one that the kid that was being said is huck it to flat. What does huck it to flat? What does huck it to flat mean? That is that is.

Steve 10:27

So they're basically hucking it off a jump, right, and then landing on a flat surface. You're not landing on a downslope. Okay. So that and then they and then they video the from the side slow motion of the compression and the flex and all the things that goes into the into the bike as all of this weight comes down onto it. Okay. Okay. That is hucking the flat. Is that basically you're landing on a flat surface, not a downslope?

Kristin 10:51

Is that essentially it there's nothing essentially good or bad about that. It's just harder.

Steve 10:55

It's harder. You don't want nobody wants to land from a high height onto a flat surface. Got it. Yeah.

Kristin 11:01

So don't encourage that. Um I think it was oh, I just had it. You know, one of the things he was saying was like people might be like, you can do it. Like, ah, you can do it. But then they might be going, he cannot do it. Right? Like, like so that so what's the line, I guess, on on when you're encouraging kids or grown-ups to try something new on mountain biking and the words that you use, you know, just be thoughtful about them. I think that's the whole the whole session was really about being thoughtful about your words. So if you see like kids being like, oh yeah, you can totally do it, he's he's not gonna be able to do that. Like that, maybe it's time to take the temperature down of a group.

Steve 11:48

Um do you want anyone to hear my my biggest stupidest takeaway?

Kristin 11:53

Yes, of course I do.

Steve 11:55

The the clapping thing.

Kristin 11:56

The clap oh okay.

Steve 11:59

So you've got you've got 50 people under a tent, and we're all talking, chatting, chatting, chatting. It's kind of loud in there. And all of a sudden you hear a clap, and so you like to turn, right? And then and that's when you hear him say, if you can hear me clap, like twice, and you're like, oh, I missed the clap once. It's basically it's this radio attention method. So so he he is at one side of the tent, he said and he says, If you can hear me clap once, well, the people right around him hear him and clap once.

Kristin 12:32

They're talking to him.

Steve 12:33

Then you've got the next layer of people who all of a sudden are like, wait, what's going on? And so he says, Can if you can hear me clap twice. And so then you've got the next layer of people clapping twice that catches the attention of the outer ring. If you can hear me clap three times, and all of a sudden he's got the whole room at attention to it It's a really good strategy.

Kristin 12:51

It's a really good impressive strategy to get a group together. Um, I think for me, the highlight, you know, beyond so we did that session, and then when we weren't in session, the three of us decided to ride, which was really um again.

Steve 13:08

A lot of them were in a first aid session, which we had already a big long speed hour thing, and we had already done that.

Kristin 13:14

And this was a real real chance for for Chris and I in particular to work on new skills. So we were like, we've done leadership things, we have our first aid, we're gonna really focus on her. But um on Saturday night they had a uh bonfire. Yeah. With all the little fire. It's a fire, you know, the word bonfire does not have a size required. There was a campfire. Okay, there was a campfire. A campfire. It's a campfire. Or I'll say you're on the campfire. Um we were the oldest.

Steve 13:48

Yeah, we were the oldest, I'd say.

Kristin 13:49

By a good amount. Um, at least judging by children. Right.

Steve 13:53

Well, I mean, for most people in the NEYC, they have children in on teams. Yeah. And our children are above that age. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin 14:04

So it was interesting to sit there and listen to them talk about their children, where they're in in their where they are in their cycling journey, um, how to encourage competitiveness, but also not burn them out, right? When sh what age could kids should start to compete. Like it just was really interesting. And in particular, because we had just talked to our kids.

Steve 14:27

Yeah.

Kristin 14:27

Right. So having the hindsight and listening to them, it was just, I don't have any great takeaways from it, other than it was just really interesting and it's exciting to see them starting down this path that we have been on. Speaking of that, we have we're gonna take a quick break because we actually did get a couple of uh quick interviews in, including with Kelly Catali, the executive director. Yep. Um, with just a couple of coaches. I think you learned an important lesson, which is apparently I've already forgotten that lesson. People don't love to jump on a oh no, they do not.

Steve 15:02

Yeah, hey, you want to do this? No, I don't want to do this.

Kristin 15:04

This is gonna be great. We're gonna go and get all these interviews. And and I I have over the years tried this and it's awkward. So awkward. And yeah, it was like people were running from you. Yeah, it was great. Let's take a break.

Kelly 15:22

Yes, what are we doing? We are here at Highland Mountain Bike Park with the NYC coaches retreat, the annual coaches retreat. And we just finished our first session. Yes. Tell us, tell us who ran it. It was Ben Tufford from the mountain from Highland Mountain Bike Park, who's also our expert coaching education consultant.

Kristin 15:40

Do you watch Great Pottery Showdown Throwdown? There's a coach, um, there's the one of the judges regularly cries. And I could think of watching Ben with the judge for the Great Pottery Throwdown. It just gets so emotional. And it was so lovely.

Kelly 15:56

It was so lovely. I think it's funny because we as coaches can really easily get swept up in the operations of it all, in the transition of coaching, right? You show up for practices, you go around, and you say goodbye at the end of the practice. Right. And when you actually take a step back and think about the impact you're having on the future of these kids' lives, it's they're gonna look back at high school time or middle school time and remember you, the coach, and the impact you had on them. And it's pretty darn special for sure.

Kristin 16:27

Yeah. So today there was a lot for us to think about. I'll admit, I didn't really go going into it know what we're gonna do. A lot to think about, a lot of great information. But the big thing we're gonna be asking people today, which you guys actually talk to them, yeah, was why?

Kelly 16:42

So, why do you coach mountain biking? I feel like I can answer this in a million different ways. You have if I have to be in my four seconds. No, I want the people I coach to feel seen, valued, and empowered as individuals and community members. And you can do that through a lot of different modalities, and I happen to love mountain biking because it's a way that you can achieve a lot of life lessons.

Kristin 17:09

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Well, thanks for having us. Thank you. I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions. Okay. Number one is what's your name? Marianne Lanyer. And what's your team? With the Swamp Yankees. And how long have you been a coach? Oh, um, I think three or four years. Time flies when you're having fun. It is fun, right? What's your why? My why for coaching is because I think cycling makes lives better.

Oscar 17:35

That's amazing. Okay, my name is Oscar Gonzalez. And what uh what team do you coach? I'm uh Blue Hills Racing Team.

Steve 17:42

Blue Hills Racing Team. So, like, what's your why? Why do you coach?

Oscar 17:47

Well, the why do I coach from this year has changed a little bit from the past year because the past year I was coaching to get more kids on bikes, and I basically started because my kid got into the mountain biking. Okay. But then this year I discovered that why I started mountain biking and uh the why I coach right now is so I can share the joy of what mountain biking is and how that can help people to overcome challenges and at the same time improve the physical stamina of somebody and improve the neurological connection. So right now I'm at this that stage. I just want to I started as just I wanted to get more people on bikes. But right now, that's that. I just want to share the joy in a structured way as well.

Steve 18:33

And I'm here with Chris Smith. And Chris, what team are you with? I'm with the Dover Demons. As shown on the hat. And why do you coach?

Chris 18:41

I coach because I I love the community. I love taking kids who aren't necessarily great at team sports and seeing them get together and go play bikes together and learn new things and challenge themselves. My happiest times as a coach is when I I see at a race or a practice or something, a bunch of the team going off together and just being kids together and have formed that community, and seeing them grow up year over year. On bikes and off. So playing bikes, I like it. Yep. And then hearing in the offseason when they get together and go do stuff that's not even team related, but they've built these bonds and now they're seeing that out in the you know, taking that out in the wild.

Steve 19:27

Okay, so if someone wanna wanted to be a coach, what would you what would you tell them maybe to do?

Chris 19:31

Come on in. It's great. Um one, you get to go ride your bike a couple times a week to go help kids. Um, two, you're gonna learn a lot as a coach. You're gonna develop your skills. Um, as we just saw up on the hill behind us, where we spent two days learning how to, you know, hit some features more smoothly, bike positioning or body positioning. Yep. Um you'll find opportunities like that. And you're going to have these amazing rewarding moments of you know when you help some kid try something new and make it happen.

Steve 20:03

Yeah, not everybody can go teach their football team, but right. Yeah. But but so what, there's 70 teams or so in the league? Is that right? 52. 51. 51, okay. And that's a lot of teams around New England, so lots of opportunities for coaches. And they probably all need coaches more yeah.

Chris 20:20

Every team needs coaches because we want to try to have, you know, we want to it's it's not like soccer where there's a head coach and maybe an assistant coach and then however many players. Yep. This is we need to form, you know, small groups where we have, you know, two or three coaches per group. So we need probably three coaches per six kids. So you're participating, you're part of the program, you're part of the rides, you're part of the skills clinics. And you're not sitting on a co you're not sitting on the sideline, you're not just working on developing plays or something.

Steve 20:52

Um so very unique for the world of mountain biking, yep, in terms of sports and coaching. Yeah. Yeah. And you get to get be called coach. That's right. And that feels pretty good. Yep. Right?

Chris 21:06

So we started on a team. Um, I remember in the bear, the show the bear, yeah. They made a point about calling each other chef as a sign of respect. And we very much do that in a team where we call each other coach and the kids call us coach.

Steve 21:20

That's great.

Chris 21:21

Yeah. Okay. And special coaches' jerseys.

Steve 21:23

And special coaches grow up jersey.

Kristin 21:26

All right, we're back.

Steve 21:28

Well, that was nice. Those were good. The ones we got.

Kristin 21:30

They I think, you know, hopefully other people will see that and say, Yeah, dang, this was um yeah, we had people talking about, you know, why they coach and that was um that was nice. Well done. All right. So now, according to my show notes, it is time for us to talk about 32-inch wheels again.

Steve 21:53

I do. I know. Yeah.

Kristin 21:56

What do you want to say? What's going on?

Steve 21:58

We're gonna have to period. Come back to this because is this looming large in the industry?

Kristin 22:05

I will say I'm on threads. Um, and one guy, um threads has it organizes, you can organize yourself in threads by topics. So there's cycling threads, there's art threads, yeah, whatever. So I'm in the cycling threads thread, and some guy posts, I am interested in hearing from podcasters about 32-inch wheels, but those podcasters, I don't want them to be industry types, right? Right. And I responded and I said, My husband is a mechanic, so he is kind of an industry type, but he's not he's not he's not that influential in the industry. Like uh, and here's a little clip with you going, the bike industry desperately wants to sell you stuff. Right. It was an immediate follow, I will have to say. So so what is going on with 32 inch wheels now?

Steve 23:05

Well, so last time we talked about it, I think they it was because they were debuting on the World Cup scene uh under the Thomas Maxon team. Yes. Cannot remember which race it was. Um but we talked about how it did not go well. It went horribly for the 32-inch wheels. You could just see the trouble that they were having handling these bikes.

Oscar 23:32

Right.

Steve 23:33

And they didn't have much time to practice on, though, given that.

Kristin 23:36

They still did better than I would have done.

Steve 23:39

So and the funny thing was at the time, it was almost swept under the rug by the commentators. Um like after Alessandra Keller had all the problems in her race, they mentioned it much less for the men's race. Yes. And then they basically didn't talk about it at all. It was it was like they were doing cer they were they were giving the industry a little uh a little help by not bringing attention to the problems.

Kristin 24:08

Like, what is going on there?

Steve 24:11

So now we have Scott and Trek both debuting 32-inch wheels at last weekend's Soldier Hollow um Utah uh World Cup race.

Kristin 24:22

Oh, is that where they were? Okay.

Steve 24:24

And they almost made this uh yes, Trek and Scott were coming out with the first time, but there was almost like don't forget about what happened before. That didn't exist. Were they this is the debut of the almost.

Kristin 24:40

He specifically said this is gonna be marked as 32-inch wheels big debut. Yeah, he they he right not like leaned into it. You're right, it was like that never happened. And I wasn't sure is if it was because it was the bigger brands, although they didn't really talk about the Trek one either. It was always the Scott they were talking about.

Steve 25:03

Well, Scott was the main title sponsor of this race, and so they were. I think that's why they were giving a little more love there.

Kristin 25:08

Yep.

Steve 25:08

Now that course is wide a very cool course, and and kind of completely different from other World Cup courses. Okay, but I would also call it wide open. Um fat very, very fast. Swooping turns. Um, the technical I would say was technical, but it suited the 32s in a lot of ways.

Kristin 25:33

Okay.

Steve 25:34

And so I can see why uh the two teams decided to to give it a go.

Kristin 25:40

Yes.

Steve 25:41

And it went okay, actually, there for 32-inch wheels. They didn't win, but it went okay. I think it was a podium.

Kristin 25:47

Yeah, I think there was a podium in the women's race. The women's race.

Steve 25:51

So not so not bad. Um, and you know, the the of course the funny thing is is both these brands are coming out with new bikes, 29s. You know, this is still prototype stage for them. Yes. Um now, my feeling here is that we've got Lake Placid coming up next weekend, which we hope to be at, actually.

Kristin 26:11

Weather permitting.

Steve 26:12

Weather weather permitting. And it will be interesting to see if they ride those bikes there. Um because if they don't, yes, that almost tells me everything I need to know. Like I feel that 32-inch wheels are not going to be good at all for tight twisty single track in New England.

Kristin 26:36

Right.

Steve 26:37

And if they they do not ride them again there, then that says to me, yeah, they're no, they're only good for wide open, flowy trails. They are not good for tight twisty trails.

Kristin 26:49

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. No, it's not. It's a tool, right? Like we we did not take our we we did not take my allied for lift service mountain biking. I rode my bolt, which has more travel. So it and and if you're a professional racer, you're gonna have multiple tools in your toolbox. Whether or not then a 32-inch wheel is right for your everyday bike is gonna be largely dependent on where you live, where you live, and your trails, and how tall you are, and and how tall you are, right?

Steve 27:25

Yep.

Kristin 27:26

So I mean, I don't think they're going away. Um, I don't feel like the drum beat is quite as loud for their inevitability.

Steve 27:36

Most of what I see online in online chat or in forums is please know. Like we just like we've settled on 29. Please just we like uh my we're we're happy here. Please don't just this didn't have to happen. Voice this upon us.

Kristin 27:55

Yeah, yeah. Again, there will be people who want to try it. I know you are not opposed to trying it. No, I want to try it. Check it out. Yeah, there may be, we've talked about how in the grand scheme of things, there may be taller riders where that is the appropriate choice. But once again, they're not spending any time innovating on the other side of things, which is for smaller riders, and it's smaller riders that there are just more of. There are more smaller riders who cannot find bikes than there are large bikes, taller riders who cannot find bikes. So if the industry really wants to grow, that's what they have to do. This is actually a lovely lead-in to my current pet peeve.

Steve 28:44

Okay. Let us have it.

Kristin 28:46

Let me not say my current pet peeve. I have always had this pet peeve, which is there is a gatekeeping that happens in cycling, right? When I'll say it, dudes. Dudes like just have to push it to the next level or have to be mean. So we've had two comments come in recently that have driven me a little nuts. Number one, some guy posts on a comment on Instagram that says, This podcast is for people who ask to draw a bike from memory and can't. I like to respond to uh to things as you. I'll be the first to admit. I should probably sign them. But I responded as you. If you mean that this podcast is for people who want to ride a bike and is presenting good information to remove barriers to that, then yes. And he re he removed his comments. Oh, okay. Well, there we go. So that's good. Okay. Then we had this is a more conversation because I'm curious your take on it. Um, we I posted a video about you talking about the chain, we talked about the chain clamp washer, right? And how specifically in the video we say it's a great option.

Steve 30:06

For I think for very dirty chains, and if you don't want to remove your chain.

Kristin 30:09

Right, exactly. And somebody responds for about the same price as a chain washer, you could get a recirculating solvent tank that comes with water-based solvent. You can then clean your drivetrain the correct all caps way by taking all drivetrain components off the bike, scrubbing it, drying it, then reinstalling it. Best part, you don't have to dispose of the solvent. You can just leave it in the tank and use it again in the future. This guy, this guy heard us say you want to clean your chain without taking it off, and said, What you really should do is take all the parts off the butt, all of them and clean them and leave a have a have a just a dedicated tank dedicated tank of cleaner sitting in your grind.

Steve 30:59

By the way, dirty cleaner, dirty cleaner. Dirt and uh grime and yes, we're gonna just gonna keep we're gonna keep washing our parts in a dirty, grimy solution, yes. Right.

Kristin 31:12

Yeah, and I I tried to respond as you to say the chain scrubber is $35, which is not cheap. And as we said, is an option for when you don't want to take the chain off. And this doubling down. He's doubling down. I get that, but it's less effective and less necessary than they'd have you believe. Who's they? It's me. I'm the one, I'm the one who said I like it. You can get a basic solvent tank for $60. $60 is not $35. $60 is different than $35.

Steve 31:44

Yep.

Kristin 31:46

Right? Now, let's give it up for Marty. Yes, PMC Marty, who said, I'm not disassembling the bike to get it a little bit cleaner than I can with a chain cleaner. Dirty chain cleaner can be easily put into an empty container for proper disposal. Yeah. Thank you, Marty.

Steve 32:04

Like, why let's also not forget, now, I I think I said everybody reuses their quick links.

Kristin 32:12

Yes.

Steve 32:13

But the manufacturers say, Shimano and Saram say, don't reuse your quick links. You use a new one each time you reconnect your chain.

Kristin 32:21

Okay.

Steve 32:21

And those quick links are expensive. I mean, like, they're like five bucks. And that's, I mean, you're five bucks, but five bucks for a little quick link. I mean, every time you want to take your chain off, clean it, and put it back together, technically you're supposed to spend another five dollars on a quick link.

Kristin 32:33

Well, this is what I'm talking about. Like, number one, what you're not gonna disassemble what what this person is doing is they're setting the stage that basically says if you don't take all the parts off of your bike to clean it, then you are not cleaning it properly. Setting a bar.

Steve 32:54

Let me talk about what I do in the shop. You know, ah almost every single bike in the shop gets its drivetrain clean to some point. Okay. Okay, on the stand, on the bike. Nothing is coming off the bike in in daily routine, day-to-day tune-ups. Okay. And yet, so but with rags and cleaners, I can get absolutely filthy drivetrains looking really good. Yes. Right? Because it doesn't actually take too much. And if you have the ability, if it's decent outsize and you have the ability to wash it, then just like your normal bike wash, it's also gonna get your drivetrain looking really sparkly clean.

Kristin 33:37

Right. I I guess it just seems like it's a it's a gatekeeping that this person may not even realize that they're doing. But it's a gatekeeping to cycling because it just makes it seem so much more complicated to clean your bike than it is. Yeah, to people who might be reading this saying Yeah, going, oh gosh, every time I clean every time I clean my bike, I gotta take all the components off. You know, it's kind of similar to years ago when I pulled up to a cafe and these two dudes, or this one dude in particular, is trying to tell me that I'm leaning my bike incorrectly against the wall, right? Because oh, it could fall over. So you should go put it in the grass because you can it's like first of all, I didn't ask, and second of all, again, you're making this like so much more and also then starts quizzing me about my bike and finally asks me if my husband bought it for me. Right. And it's like I don't need to tell you all the components to my bike to deserve to own this bike, right? And I and I don't need you telling me how to lean it against a wall. But this just this whole like I just could not believe somebody could could hear a video. It is 90 seconds, people, and I think it's within the first 10. We say, if you don't want to take the chain off. Yeah, like that was pretty quick in the video, and still was like you should take everything off and put it into solvent tax.

Steve 35:17

Disassembled it.

Kristin 35:19

I just I have I just I hate it.

Steve 35:23

Yeah, and I don't know if he's talking about an ultrasonic cleaner, which I do have at the shop, or if he's talking about just uh I don't know.

Kristin 35:30

I Googled them, and I'm gonna tell you, they weren't even 60 bucks. There were some that were $400, and they were little, like they were not nothing popped up at $35. And again, I'm gonna now I have this tank in my house full of dirty solvents.

Steve 35:49

Yep. I guess you're supposed to turn to him, just leave it there for the next homeowner. Because you never have to dispose of it. What am I gonna do with it? Exactly. And then I was buried with it.

Kristin 36:05

It's so ridiculous. I just think I just think we we don't need to make bikes this complicated. And this is just so typical to me of some of the reasons that cycling can seem intimidating. Because, again, like really what you need is soapy water and maybe a chair you can lean your bike on, right? Like it it it's as simple as that. Yeah. Alright, that's all. That's all I got. That's all you got. Yes, I think we should wrap this up. All right. If you like our show, please help spread the word and tell three friends who maybe are interested in riding bikes.

Steve 36:44

For show notes, links, or to leave a comment, question, or topic suggestion, visit cyclingtogether.bike.

Kristin 36:49

And you can uh follow the shop on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. We're on all of them at Steve the Bike Guy.

Steve 36:57

Yeah, and you'll be seeing, I guess, upcoming all of the move changes.

Kristin 37:02

So much plan.

Steve 37:04

And so much plan for new content.

Kristin 37:07

Yes.

Steve 37:07

Yeah.

Kristin 37:08

Alright.

Steve 37:08

Thanks. We'll see you next time.

Kristin 37:10

Bye.

Kelly 37:11

That was easy. See? We're keeping it fat.

Oscar 37:14

We're gonna just try to harass people.