Anything But Politics Ep. 3 Dr. David Nagel

In this episode of Anything But Politics, hosts Tiffany Eddy and Tom Prasol welcome Dr. David Nagel, a physician, author, and second-term New Hampshire legislator, to share his fascinating life story and groundbreaking work. From growing up in the snow-laden town of Orchard Park, New York, to his time in Alaska working with the Indian Health Service, Dr. Nagel takes us on a journey of resilience, advocacy, and leadership.

Dr. Nagel discusses his book Needless Suffering, which tackles how society fails people with chronic pain, and his lifelong mission to improve pain management and end-of-life care. He also opens up about his work with the NFL Players Association, where he helped develop best practices for managing pain and advocating for player health.

We also hear about his inspiration to enter public service, his advocacy for healthcare rights, and his passion for addressing the challenges of chronic pain. With humor, heartfelt anecdotes, and deep insights, this episode provides a thought-provoking look at the intersections of healthcare, service, and leadership.

Tune in to discover Dr. Nagel's remarkable journey, his impactful work, and how New Hampshire's unique political landscape allows individuals to make a meaningful difference.

Transcript

Hi, everyone, I'm Tiffany Eddy and I am joined by my partner in crime here, Mr.

Tom Prasol of Demers and Prasol. And we are so pleased to be bringing you another

episode of Anything But Politics. And today we have the pleasure of having a new

guest on and we're so excited to explore his life and backstory. So, yeah, You

know, Tiffany, it's amazing because I feel like we've been really, you know, lucky

in the fact that the last few guests we've had have really turned out to be

experts in a specific area. And today we're joined by someone who's in their,

just starting their second term in the New Hampshire house. And they're certainly an

expert and an author of the book Needless Suffering. But, you know, they're an

expert in an area that I think everyone can relate to, which is pain and not the

type of pain that I am to you as far as a pain in the neck, but a type of

pain. Well, I was hoping to get some insights on that too, but yes. Yeah, we've

got some free advice coming our way, but you know, without further due, we want to

introduce, you know, Dr. Representative David Nagel. Hi, thanks. Yeah,

welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much for joining us. And to go back a

little bit. So, you know, we have so much to talk about and you have done many

many many fascinating things that we're gonna try to get to but let's just go to

you you're not a New Hampshire native so you grew up in a place that's apparently

getting a lot of snow right now yep I grew up in Snow Belt Orchard Park New York

it's the home of a this little football team Buffalo Bills oh yes but that's you

don't have to talk about them right now no - It's not the neatest thing about

Orchard Park. The neatest thing about Orchard Park that really meant a lot to me

was it was the last stop in the Underground Railroad. The town was founded by

Quakers. The main street is Quaker Street. And when I was a kid, in between

snowstorms, you could go into somebody's house on Quaker Street, you go to the

basement and there were tunnels that would connect houses that were used originally

to hide slaves and things like that. And for the most part, they were like blocked

out, but it was just a neat part of the history of the area. And what was really

neat about it, that was kind of also unusual, I think, was, you know,

like my childhood hero was Frederick Douglass. And that was totally unrelated. But

the concept that you could just get along with a lot of different types of people

in different ways and be just totally oblivious to your phenotypical differences, I

mean that was just normal there and I remember there was this guy butch bird that

played for the bills in the 60s and He was like You know one of their defensive

backs and he would you know he he said that you know He grew up in upstate New

York and he was black and he was totally oblivious to the whole concept of racism

Until he got to play in the AFL all -star game in New and it was the first time

he'd ever experienced in his life. And it was just, in retrospect, was such a great

place to grow up. - Yeah. - And it's hard to leave, very hard to leave.

- Yeah, I mean, it certainly sounds amazing. And how long were you in there? How

long were you up there? - Well, technically, I kind of still am, but like, I mean,

pretty much by the time I was 18, I'd kind of, you know, moved on, just go home

for family events, things like that, but, you know, it's still home to me. I still

have friends there. My parents passed away a couple years ago, so I don't really

have direct family there anymore, but my friend Jeanette, who probably won't watch

this, but she was my next -door neighbor. We welcome everyone. Yeah. All are welcome

to watch. If you call, email Jeanette, she will send you a picture of our first

communion When we were, what, eight years old or something, I was forced to hold

her hand and yeah, she's still sharing that picture. So I saw friends there.

- We'll take the picture, yeah. So then, but you lived in, and Sitka, is it Sitka

or Sika? - Sitka. - Sitka, Alaska. So if you could just kind of like fill me in a

little bit, you went from basically the Buffalo area and then out to Alaska and

what were you doing out there? So shoveling. Yeah that was stereotypical about

Alaska. I had to correct the governor on that yesterday. Yeah Sitka's actually if

this is Alaska that's where Sitka's anchorage is here but the coast the Japanese

current keeps it relatively warm so it doesn't really snow much at sea level so we

we really got more rain than snow and it never really got back -hold but I I'm

kind of rebellious I've always been a rebel my entire life I I used the form of

advocacy I called John the Baptist advocacy a voice crying the wilderness and and I

learned that very early from my mother and somebody else but this opportunity came

up when I was in med school to work with the Indian Health Service. And I just,

for some reason, I always wanted to go up there. And what is it the Indian Health

Service, and what was it that you, why did you want to go to Alaska?

Not really. I don't know why. I mean, I've always been an outdoorsy person.

I, you know, Alaska is the last frontier.

There was just something, I don't know, John Crackauer had written a book about the

need for young people to explore, you know, get there right of passage, that kind

of thing. And to me, it was the right of passage. For me, it was to go up there.

But, you know, I grew up right next to the Seneca Reservation. So we had a lot of

native experience as a child. And I kind of felt like I owed something to somebody.

I applied for the Navy and was denied because of my exercise -induced asthma, which

I will never understand, but we can take that with the Navy on another day. But

the good news was, this was another way to serve somebody.

So, yeah, so I went up there. It was to this day, probably one of the greatest

experiences of my life because you have to leave what your comfort zone is behind

and go to an area with people that you really share very little in common with.

And you need to fit into their culture. And Sitka's a very small town, so you get

to know people very quickly. And if you don't fit in,

you're not going to have fun there. So you have to find a way to adapt to them,

rather than forcing them to adapt to you. And I mean, I made so many friends there

and Just had learned a lot because the more you give to somebody else the more

they're willing to give to you so they taught me all sorts of stuff and You know

fishing I never really got into the hunting thing. I'm not against that. It's just

it wasn't me but the fishing yeah, I don't mind sticking a hook through a fish's

mouth, but You know stuff like that and then hearing their stories and then helping

them with their problems it was kind of a two -way street, and I got paid nothing

to do it. So, I mean, if I had gotten paid to do that, I think it would have

cheapened the experience a lot. - Well, it sounds amazing. And to the fishing point,

like I don't mind like casting, but getting the hook off the fish is like the most

horrible thing in the world, I think. - You know what was really fun? I do have to

tell you, this is the greatest thing. So my friend, Paul, I went back to visit her

there and she lived right on the ocean and you know people come from all over the

world to take tour boats to see what I was living in you know so I put my tent

up while I was visiting around the seashore and I go fishing and and across the

bay there were bald eagles in the you know in the tree nested and they would

always want to come down and see what I caught and so that I mean they'd be from

me to that light away. It was just, it was such an amazing experience.

And it's just me and them. And then I found out later, some grizzly bears later

came by to check in on my spot for what you got there then. Yeah. But yeah,

no, that's really interesting. And for those who are viewing this and listening at

home, so Sica, you mentioned it's a small town. So that's actually where now I'm a

sucker for a good romcom. but the movie The Proposal with Ryan Reynolds and Sandy

Bullock took place in Sitka. It was filmed in Rockport, Massachusetts. I was gonna

tell you there are no lawns in Sitka. The minute I saw this broad sweeping lawn,

I turned the movie off. This is not Sitka. And I just want to point out that like

most people say Sandra Bullock, but because you guys have a close personal

relationship. I feel very close. I've seen every one of her movies. Get to call

(laughing) - But no, so when you win-- - She's been to Gilmonton, you know. - Has

she really? - Really? Wait, how do you know that? - So Gilmonton was the home of

Grace Metalleus, who wrote Peyton Place. - Yes. - And there's a very fascinating story

that could be in topic of another one of your podcasts, but about Herbert, that

book is an amazing book. I think everybody in New Hampshire should read it. It was

a very presentation of like civil rights, spousal abuse, racism,

blah blah blah. She explored a lot of that in that book, and Sandra Bullock became

very interested in the woman who wrote the story rather than the story itself, so

she wanted to create a movie about Grace Mattalius. She filmed the whole thing, and

of course she had never made it to the screen, but so she was in Gilmont and she

wanted to meet the old timers who knew Sandra, or Sandra, she sent her book, To

Meet Grace Natalius, and-- - Wow. - Yeah, it was pretty cool. I never got to meet

her, but my friend Henry did, and yeah, so she was in town. - We did New Hampshire

Chronicle on Grace Natalius in Peyton Place way back in my day, and I had never

heard that story. That's amazing. That's really-- - I don't think anybody's heard it.

Yeah. - That's really interesting. But just to put a button on Alaska and SICA.

So you said you had finished med school? I was in med school. You were in med

school. And so what did you get? What's your specialty? So I went to the University

of Rochester. I still work with them. We're doing a project on whole life, whole

person care, and how do you teach pain? Rochester is known for one thing. It's

called the biopsychosocial model of medicine, which basically means that we're Taught

how to communicate with patients for every single minute of every single day that

you're in med school It's the only med school in the world that does this and

that's why I chose to go there That was always really important to me It still is

and one of my nonprofits we kind of deal with that and that's what I'm doing with

you of our right now I Had no idea what I wanted to do because I really didn't

want to be a doctor I started working with elderly people when I was a kid.

I became struck with how they struggle with end of life and functional loss.

It became like a mission to me to help them figure out how to preserve function as

they got older to keep meaning in life. It turned out that that was the whole

message at Rochester was finding out what's the meaning in life for you and how do

we allow that to persist as long as it could. So then I started working with at a

cancer hospital and seeing people in the dying process so I started thinking even

more about that and I wanted to start a business that would focus on function at

end of life and I didn't know how to do that and somebody says well why don't you

become a doctor and I I didn't see doctors as doing what I wanted to do and I

said no I want to do that. And I said, Well, maybe a PT. And then they said,

What's a good idea? And then somebody says, Why aren't you be a physiatrist? I go,

What's a physiatrist? They said, It's a PT doctor. I says, Turns out that's not

true. But, um, you know, I then went and spent some time at a VA hospital. And

can you tell us what a physiatrist? Yeah, yeah. So most from my knowledge, the

simplified version is that that we focus on function, not diagnosis.

So in other words, like you go see a doctor, they'll give you a diagnose something,

they'll treat it and hopefully get better. If you don't, then you can't see me. My

job is to help people adapt to disability. And, you know, mostly it's physical

disability, but I mean, you can't separate, you know, emotional issues and

psychological issues and spiritual issues, you can't separate that. So we look at the

person as a whole person. And then we help them to find ways to adapt to really

challenging things. The reason I became-- when I came to New Hampshire, actually one

of my big interests was head injury or head trauma. And so I was actually recruited

to come here to start a head injury program that unfortunately never happened. I

worked at Easter Seals at first, which is still one of my second favorite job after

Sitka.

Yeah, it was just sad that what I came here for never happened,

but at the same point, the good thing was that at some point I came to understand

that pain was part of every disability and nobody ever talked about it as its own

thing.

So One of the lessons that I did want to share with you that I learned when I

was a kid because I think it's really important We'll take all the free medical

advice you give us Yeah, it's not a medical thing. It's a personal thing. So my

mom has rheumatoid arthritis

She's portrayed prominently in my book because I'm everything because of her I mean

my mom suffered terribly, but she was always there for other people and She had

this smile that I, you know, kind of distracted people from her joints and swelling

and all that stuff. And, you know, in a very quiet way, she taught me what I

wanted to be. But one day in school, there was this young girl, she just moved,

we were in fourth grade, she just moved into town, she had bright, bright red hair,

which the boys thought was a good idea to pick on her for. And I was struggling,

It's a Catholic school and you're belittling somebody who's in a new place and I

just couldn't deal with that. And at this whole time, I'm never realizing until

decades later that I'm living my mom in what I did. And I just said, "You guys,

you can't treat her like that." And then I was shocked, the repercussions I took

for that. And one of my friends, John Bell, who's a gentleman with sickle cell

anemia who has taught me a lot, He said that when we don't do the right thing

frequently, because we fear the ramifications of doing the right thing, which is

being ostracized because you stand up for somebody, but it really empowered me. I

took that lesson all the way through medical school, and all the way into physiatry,

that I'm seeing these people in pain are being treated really badly by a society

that's promising to pick up for people that need And I finally decided that somebody

has to do this. So I shifted my entire focus from head injury, spinal cord and

geriatrics into pain management. And you've written a book about it, too. Yeah,

that book started because I was really angry.

Don't all the best ones start that way? I only write when I'm sad or mad.

That book was written because I was really mad. So this book needless suffering how

society fails those with chronic pain available on Amazon. I believe correct. Yep.

Yep It was available next door. Yeah, and at Gibson's bookstore our next -door

neighbors who we love retailer at the year love Gibson's That's right So I think

you know this it's really interesting that you decided to move into The focus of

pain right because I think everyone can relate to some sort of pain And so I think

that's really helpful. But in doing so, you've also found your way into,

and I'm curious how this happened, but so you work with the NFL Players Association,

and I believe you're a co -chair of one of their subcommittees. - Yes. - How did

that come to be? - It was really weird. So my best friend in the planet,

Maya Christopher, he used to run the Center for Practical Bioethics in Kansas City.

She's the most amazing person I've ever met, but next to my mom. But anyways,

Myra was nobody. She was a mother. I shouldn't say nobody,

she's somebody, but she-- - Was it well known? - Right, she was a mother, was very

upset about how a family member got treated at the end of life. Basically,

they turn that mission into the center of her practical bioethics, which this is a

very gross level of simplification But into like how do we change the end -of -life

experience? This is the 1970s. I got involved in this issue in the 1980s And then

I I met Myra. I don't remember when it the only reason this is important was Myra

became a national figure in how we managed pain, mostly at end of life, but at

other times too. And so, anyways, the NFL players associated wanted to create this

committee, so they call Myra up and they go, "Myra, who should be on that

committee?" And if you walk into her office, her entire back shelf was nothing but

my book, which I'm still honored to this day. But anyways, so she said me.

I was the only name she mentioned and I don't really to this day don't know why

she did that and whatever so I get this phone call from Somebody who says they're

from the NFL Players Association. I thought somebody was playing a joke on me. Yeah,

so I said, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, right. No, no, we really are we really are

we want to start this committee and You know because it's an issue that we're not

dealing well at virtually any level of athletics So we want to make a difference

and we would like you to come so I says all right Where are we going? He says

what DC we want you to come down here. He says all right So I go down to this

meeting. There's 35 people there And we're around the table and I've been around

professional football players my whole life because I grew up in Orchard Park So

there's no rose -colored glasses are off So I'm yeah, I'm impressed because they're

very athletic, but at the same point, you so it's not a big deal to me. So we

walk into this room, there's the head of the NFL PAs in the room, and there's

these very athletic looking people in the room, and then there's a lot of us.

So anyways, we go around the room, and they really didn't know what they wanted to

create, 'cause nobody's ever done this before, and I really wanted to create this,

'cause this was a life dream, to create a guide for on how to manage their pain,

that they can just resort to and not have to rely on a doctor. So anyways, they

said, what do you want out of this? And I just said, you guys have done virtually

nothing to justify your position in society. With that said, because you've done

nothing, you have the responsibility to take whatever we create here and generalize

it to the population as a whole, just like you did with head injury, which was

accidental, but it was a good thing. So I said, this is what we need to do. If

we're not gonna do this, I don't wanna be part of it. And then I stopped. And

then I went home and I just figured, well, that's the last I'll ever see the

NFLPA. And I get a call a week later from my friend Betsy. And if you look at

the name of the guide we created, it's called the Betsy Gilbert Sin Guide because

unfortunately Betsy died of cancer shortly thereafter. But anyways, She calls me up

and she says, "We want you on the committee and we want you to chair the Best

Practices Committee." - Oh, wow. - She's like, "Oh boy." But it was like a dream

come true because I could sit down and create the thing I always wanted to do and

have a very public forum to do it. - And are you still involved in it? - Yeah,

kind of. It's kind of petered out a little bit, but it was really fun. I met some

really neat people. I started a non -profit to look at the whole issue of injury

and athletics and athletic participation and you know, a variety of things. And it

was just, it was, it was, it was a good experience. And what is the non -profit

that you started? It's called the Nagel Pain Community. And I started that with Mary

Owen, who is important to me for a variety of reasons. She's Ralph and niece. Ralph

was the owner of the bills for most of their history. I didn't know her at all

through the bills, but she was one of the first female executives in NFL history.

She still works with the NFL and her big interest is player safety, player health.

The way we look at player health is the same way I look at anything. We look at

it from a whole life, whole person perspective. So what you do now will have

ramifications for the rest of your life and so whatever decisions you make now you

really need to think about because nobody too many people are taking advantage of

athletes living vicariously through them or getting something from them and not

thinking of the athlete's best interests so that was what we looked at as our role

as the non -profit and also the committee was how do we empower athletes with the

knowledge they need to make the decisions they need to decide whether to play or

not, or, you know, is this worth it or not, or how to do it more safely, or how

to treat an injury, or prevent an injury, or whatever. And so that's what our

thinking was when we started the nonprofit, and I ended up basically looking at the

entire athletic network from professional all the way to P -Way, about how do we do

things why do we do things you know is the system screwed up and virtually every

NFL player I've talked to has said yes the system is screwed up it needs to be

fixed we need to put people player's interests ahead not behind everything else so

it's been it's been a quite a ride I actually had a meeting earlier today about

about starting to look at college athletics and and and why do we do

What's the point of an athletic scholarship for an academic institution and is the

reward,

the incentive screwed up and how do we fix it to put the needs of the player

first, rather than the university and stuff like that. It's been an amazing ride.

The more you do, the more you get involved with, but it's been fun. No And I

think what you're doing is really important and really timely because, you know, we

hear about on the TV about CTE a lot, right, and head injuries, which you

mentioned. But this is something that, you know, can really go across all spectrums

and everybody. As you said, you know, we're going to create the best practices and

we're going to share it with the general public, which is really important because,

you know, as someone like myself who was a catcher from literally Little little

league through a couple years in college, you know, my knees are terrible. I've

already had one surgery on them, you know, but pain is something that everybody

feels. So if you were to give advice to people to manage pain in any way shape or

form, you know, for Tiffany and myself, aside from the pain in the neck that I am

to her, you know, you know, what would be your one piece of advice? And yes, we

are looking for free medical advice right now. And as we get older too, like, you

like Tom's very young, I'm like a couple decades older, but how can we kind of,

what sort of insurance policy can we take it on ourselves so that maybe as we age,

we aren't feeling as much pain? - So, well that's a really great question, 'cause

the entire concept I created is called justifiable risk. The decisions you make as a

child will affect what the ramifications are on the rest of your life. And having

interviewed a lot of retired NFL players who are having second thoughts about whether

playing was worth it And they don't want their kids to do it. I mean, that's an

important lesson Like one of the biggest things that we that I recommend this is

gonna sound very nebulous, but Stay in school Yeah, the best gift that you get,

you know, this will sound very political But as an American citizen, but the best

gift that we can give a kid is an education and what an education gives you is

options. So in other words, I've worked with a lot of people that do heavy labor

type work, which has ramifications for aging and they only do it because it's the

only option they've got. And they say, well, if you go to school, you can generate

more options and then maybe you can think, well, you know what? I'm at a dead end

here. Like with an NFL player, we're always asking them and now they're required to

do this to start thinking for the minute you get in the NFL what are you going to

do the rest of your life? How are you going to save this money? What are your

options when you can't play in three years which the typical player can't? What are

you thinking? What are you doing? And it's the same thing that I think we start

need to think about as a childhood because one of the big things that nobody ever

talks about in healthcare and I'm at a lot of committees right now that look at

and psychological duress, chronic disability, all these kinds of things is like,

well, what are your options? You know, what happens when you hit a wall here?

Where do you go? And I think that that's what we tell people is you gotta think

about this stuff now. We have to have long -term planning and prevention is that's

what I was getting at was prevention. We never talk about prevention. And we really

need to. We don't put any money into Prevention you've actually shown that so to me

that's That sounds really stupid because it has virtually nothing to do with treating

pain But when you said well, how do I plan for the rest of my life? Do the right

thing here that way you'll be able to you know have a better happier life I think

I mean if you love what you do then fine, but just understand that there's gonna

be ramifications So like I worked with a mason Yeah, a couple days ago,

And he's a wreck, but he loved his job. And he says, well, if you love it and

you're willing to know that this is what the ramifications, the justifiable risk is,

then fine. But you need to think about that. You know what you're saying is so

true. And I can relate to it because, you know, when I started catching, right? It

was my dad used to joke, oh, you're wearing the tools of ignorance. And I was

like, oh, that's a cool name for it. Right. And the catcher is here. Oh, yeah, you

know, because it was such so taxing on the body, and then when I was in college

and I tore my meniscus and needed to get repaired, I literally had that, you know,

come to Jesus moment where I said, well, I'm not the next Jason Veritech. And so I

need to figure out what I wanna be when I grow up. And it meant, you know,

closing that chapter and, you know, going to DC for an internship or whatever. But

what you're saying, keeping those options open and knowing when it's time to move

on. you know, it's really sad and weird, but like, you know, I think we need to

think generationally too, like, my grandparents moved here from Poland to give their

family a better life. You know, Poland was under occupied, you know, whatever, and

it was a miserable place to be in the late 1800s, so they came here through the

Catholic Church to find a better life. But I just kind of think that,

you know, eventually I did get a better life. One of the problems that we see with

the NFL guys is that I asked, one of the thoughts that was mentioned is that after

we're done doing the work that we're gonna doing, we might conclude that playing

football is a bad idea and we shouldn't be doing it. I think we concluded that

before we started. But anyways, so anyways, I'm kind of thinking about this

- I forgot where I was going with that.

- Well, I think it's like the ramifications of the choices that we make and how we

can prevent different things. - Generationally, that's what I was going to get at. So

a lot of the, thank you. So anyway, I asked the boys, I don't get this,

where are we going to get players from? There's lots of things people can do. And

they said, well, we will get players From the poor towns in the southeast who

playing football is a way to get out of that Yeah, and and he says we will always

be able to get players from there And I think that's a little sad because I would

hope that we could help them elevate their lives in a different way than that But

yeah, there's still so much and what he's saying is there's so much glory around

it. I mean we celebrate it as a nation I mean Sundays every Sunday where our most

Americans hanging out. Yeah, we're rehearsing at our fantasy football teams. Yeah, at

our fantasy teams. Exactly. Were you going to ask questions because your players

were-- No, they're all on the IR. I mean, I'm going to be caddying for someone-- I

don't know them anyways, probably, but-- And I guess-- I actually don't follow the

NFL anymore, so it's a long story. But you are at Concord Orthopedics.

And so you're over there, which my daughter went to after she broke her wrist. So,

you know, thank you. That was a long, a long process. - I didn't do anything,

somebody did. - But I guess, so one of the other questions I have is you've had

this incredible life living all over and certainly with the Players Association,

but then what inspired you to, and we don't get into the politics because it's

anything but politics, but you have now become your second term lawmaker, what was

the inspiration to become a public servant? There were a couple.

One of them was I've been advocating for people's rights for over 30 years and

you've become involved in legislation whether you want to or not doing that.

There was a I will say this publicly that opioids have a role in the treatment of

pain. They always have, they always will, and to not offer them to people that need

them as being in cruel. There was a law, or not a law, but guidelines passed by

the CDC in 2016 that basically dramatically interfered with our ability to provide

people that need pain medicine, pain medicine. I thought that that, we told our

governor at the time and other people, you can't do this. You're gonna kill people,

and they did. They passed it and people died because they couldn't access services

or people wouldn't give them to them or whatever. It's a long story but a lot of

people died and I will go to my desk saying more people were harmed by that one

rule than were ever harmed by prescription opioids. So with that as a background we

decided we needed to undo that damage and we needed to go through a legislator to

pass the bill. We were the first in the country to pass the bill And I thought

that was really great 'cause I have another nonprofit that's, it's a long story what

that one is. But anyways, we passed the bill and all of a sudden realized that the

bill took on a life of its own that I couldn't control as somebody that was not

in the legislature. It was partially at that point that I became interested but it

goes back farther. Like one of my customers, I worked as an indoor tennis place

near the Rich him when I was a kid. I worked there for 12 years, but one of my

customers was Jack Kemp.

He was still one of the most amazing politicians I've ever met. He had this vision

of elevating inner city people by using very -- because he worked with a lot of

poor people in his NFL days and just a really neat man. He just had a vision. He

could make a difference and make a change. I said, "Wow, this this guy's amazing

and I can never be like him. But in that moment, when we passed that bill,

I said, I can be like him. I'm not gonna be vice presidential candidate. I'm not

gonna run HUD, but I can still do something. And I have his biography on my

bookshelf. I look at it frequently as just a reminder of what people can do if

they're really passionate about it. And I think That was why I finally chose to

run. The third thing is I live in Belknap County and not to refer to a specific

group of people, but they were really harming gun stock ski area. That was very

public. What was not so public was what they were doing to entities like, I'm on

boards that oversee about nine nursing homes. What I saw they were doing in the

nursing home, you know, like I asked my wife before if I could run for office,

should know. Then I should, which when she saw what they were doing to the nursing

home, 'cause my wife works at nursing homes, she said, "You need to run." She made

me run. So, and I think, you know, my big thing is just protecting people's rights

to healthcare and stopping what I call the coming medical apocalypse that's,

you know, and we can talk about that if you want or not, but like, you know,

it's my mission. And my mission is to just, you know, help the people that I've

been trying to help for a long time. - Oh, I think that's wonderful. I would love

to keep talking about it, but I think we're probably getting to the end of this

one, but I do want to just pull up the book again because it's called Needless

Suffering. - This was not intended to do this, but this is fine. - Well, you know

what? We appreciate you coming on. So, you know, we're gonna definitely give you a

plug. So this is available on Amazon and also at our local retailer, Gibson's, which

is our next neighbor and we love them. Just so people know, I travel all over the

country speaking on these issues that we've talked, touched on a little bit. I don't

charge anything. I actually have lost a lot of money on this book, but it's not,

that's not the value. The value is What's the mission anyways and um,

so if anybody is interested, it's Be happy to talk to your groups or whatever.

Yeah, and I will just say just to put a button on everything Which is you know

your story about what made you decide to run and and devote your life to service

is is so great And I think New Hampshire is such a special place where where you

can do that Yeah, Right? And it's not that hard, but you know, I think everyone

should thank you for, you know, the service you're giving to the state and what

you've done for the NFL Players Association. I'll give you the names of my fancy

football players. Reach out to them and maybe help them out a little bit. Yeah, get

some more points. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. Like you, I mean, I grew up in New

York State. The concept of me having an impact in New York State as close to zero.

I mean, I've been able to make an impact in this state almost from the day I got

here. You know, it's like crazy and weird, you know, but it's, you know, and our

legislature is diverse, not just, not necessarily maybe, you know,

typically, but in terms of backgrounds. The number of different type of backgrounds

we have in that state house, amazing. --You're really plugging the podcast right now.

--Oh my god. It's - It's crazy, I mean, you know, like they're not all one

stereotypical group of people. It's like so diverse, you know, what people have done

in their lives and stuff, and they bring them all together in one place so we can

argue and herd cats and do whatever political people do, it's pretty, it's awe

-inspiring, it really is. At times it's frustrating, but at times it's like, wow,

I'm so fortunate to be part of this so yeah yeah that's amazing well we're so

fortunate to have you on thank you so much for your time thanks hopefully you'll

come back and you know hopefully you had a good time but this was fascinating so

thank you sure my pleasure well on behalf of anything but politics I'm Tiffany Eddie

from Tiffany Eddie media and and I'm Tom Preissal and thank you and thank you for

listening and watching