Out of the Blue - The Podcast: Finding the Way Forward

From Homelessness to Hope with Anthony Brown

• Vernon West • Season 1 • Episode 8

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What does it take to transform from sleeping on park benches to helping others heal? In this deeply moving episode, Anthony Brown shares his remarkable odyssey from childhood trauma through addiction and homelessness to becoming a psychiatric nurse practitioner and author of "From Park Bench to Park Avenue."

Anthony's story begins with a devastating childhood marked by poverty and witnessing his mother's shooting. By fourteen, he had run away to join a carnival, beginning decades of substance abuse and eventually spending most of the 1990s incarcerated. The turning point came at age 37 when sobriety allowed him to begin rebuilding his life from the ground up—teaching himself to read in prison, earning his GED, and gradually accumulating education and professional credentials despite his background.

The heart of Anthony's transformation occurred during a profound spiritual experience at the very park bench where he once slept homeless. There, he received three life principles that have guided him for 25 years: don't hurt anybody, don't hate, and always finish what you start. This spiritual foundation propelled him through seemingly impossible barriers—from securing nursing credentials despite his criminal record to purchasing and renovating an abandoned 1916 mansion in Ohio named "Brown Manor."

What makes Anthony's approach to homelessness revolutionary is his focus on identity transformation. "You believe who you are by what you believe who you are," he explains, noting that calling someone "homeless" reinforces that identity. Through Brown Manor and his nonprofit, he's developing a program that addresses homelessness as a problem of ineffective coping skills rather than just housing.

Anthony's parting wisdom resonates powerfully: "If you're not moving forward, look at what's holding you back." His journey reminds us that transformation is possible at any point in life, and that our pasts need not determine our futures.

Anthony Brown:

Website: https://anthonyhowardbrown.com 

Order "From Park Bench to Park Avenue": https://a.co/d/fjNl7nc

Brown Manor: https://anthonyhowardbrown.com/brownmanor

Out Of The Blue:

For more: outoftheblue-thepodcast.org

For exclusive content: patreon.com/podcastOOTB

Vernon West Jr.:

Welcome to the eighth episode of Out of the Blue the podcast, a platform dedicated to celebrating inspirational stories of people overcoming life-changing experiences, who have found their way forward. I'm your host, vernon West, and my co-host for today's episode is my son, vernon West III, who, along with being a talented singer-songwriter with his first album available on Spotify, is also the artist responsible for our Out of the Blue logo and theme song. And I want to especially thank you, our listeners, for joining us today, giving us your precious time and attention, because we know just how valuable that is. In today's episode, we are honored to have Anthony Brown, author of his award-winning autobiography From Park Bench to Park Ave, here today to tell us all about his amazing journey from homelessness and addiction to becoming a nurse practitioner and writing a book and dedicating his life to helping others struggling with the same problems. Hi, anthony, and welcome to Out of the Blue the podcast. So, anthony, we always like to start with the big questions. What brings you to Out of the Blue? How did it all begin In?

Anthony Howard Brown:

1961, my mother gave birth to a child.

Vernon West Jr.:

Okay.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Do you want me to start that?

Vernon West Jr.:

No, not that way. You started it, I it, but I think when you were homeless, I think.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, well, actually it started before I was homeless. Okay, Because I come from an abusive background. I mean, I'm a child of the 60s, born of well, I was raised with a single mother in the ghetto. No money, things of that nature. There's always booze in the house, and that's where I learned all my social skills. You know, drink, fight and everything's okay. And so, at the age of nine, a tragedy occurred in my house. We found my mother. She got shot in the head and she lived, but they never caught whoever did it. And so I got the opportunity to carry that resentment over whoever I thought did it.

Vernon West III.:

Wow.

Anthony Howard Brown:

You know that, combined with learning how to drink allowed me to learn how to use drugs to suppress all my feelings, and at the age of 14, because of the things that was going on at home, I ran away from home, joined a carnival until I was 18, quit school in the eighth grade. And so here I am, an 18-year-old adult running around in society with no skills, a serious anger problem and major trust issues, and that's how I raised myself.

Vernon West III.:

Wow.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Now, in the midst of living that lifestyle, comes all the byproducts of that. I became addicted to almost everything. I spent most of the 90s in prison and finally, at the age of 37, I got sober, discovered that the way I was living was wrong, which is kind of fascinating, because when you live your life for so long one way and somebody tells you, well, that's not the right way, then your question is well, what is the right way? And so I had to unlearn everything that I learned and relearn things I didn't know, and I got that from going through recovery.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I got to do a lot of introspective work, but first I had to remove that outside layer of the substance use and ineffective coping mechanisms that I've learned to live with. And so I ended up a stranger in a strange land. I was wrong and didn't know what to do, and extremely sensitive, with the propensity to want to go back to what I know, because that's what I understand, yeah. And so early recovery was a challenge I remember I had. I went to a program, you know, learn how to stay sober, and I was good. I mean, I liked it, you know, but being sober isn't all that it takes to change your life.

Vernon West Jr.:

It's a good start though.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, it's a good. Oh, definitely, it's a necessity, because if you're not in the right frame of mind, how can you do the right thinking? Yeah, definitely, and so I learned that, and then, as I was growing, I had to learn a lot of independent living skills.

Vernon West Jr.:

I didn't know how to work.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I knew how to hustle, but I didn't know how to work.

Vernon West Jr.:

Right Different big difference. Yeah, A big difference.

Anthony Howard Brown:

You know, I had to learn to, no matter what I thought. Maybe I'm lying to myself, because I was always taught that might makes right. If I, if, if I want to, if I want you to understand what I'm saying, it's best heard with a sock in the mouth Okay, I had to learn. You can't do that, and so I had to learn how to not only develop a vocabulary, but learn how to articulate my message in a way that allows us to agree to disagree.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yeah, that's a big deal. You know, that's an important thing to learn.

Anthony Howard Brown:

It is, and so that's how I'm living this new lifestyle. I'm learning this stuff. I'm going through some major growing pains, and then I was told that it's best that you educate yourself. I taught myself how to read in prison.

Vernon West Jr.:

Wow, that's amazing really.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, and my first book I remember was a Louis L'Amour Western book.

Vernon West Jr.:

No kidding.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I used to read a.

Vernon West Jr.:

Western book to Vernon when he was young. Remember that book, vernon? I wonder who wrote it, because we've totally got into it. It was really great, the Louis L'Amour Western book. So go ahead.

Vernon West III.:

The book we read was called Westward Go, sorry, continue.

Vernon West Jr.:

Oh, that's good. Thank you for remembering that, yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Okay, and so I went from Louis L'Amour to Daniel Steele, then Stephen King, but this is how I learned how to read.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And the words I didn't understand understand.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Then I wrote them down and got a dictionary and learned how to do that and then finally one day I I found a bible in the trash can in prison and and I still have that bible with me today that's interesting, that's awesome this occurred jesus 20, probably almost 30 years ago, and so when when I found this Bible, it was all covered with fluids and whatever else was in that trash can, so it was super soggy, and what I did was I took this Bible to my cell and I peeled apart every page and dried it with the sunlight coming from my cell window.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's determination.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And as I did it, it I started reading it. You know what I?

Vernon West Jr.:

gotta tell you, when you read something that you did that much work for to get to, I gotta say the reward must have been enhanced quite a bit it was profound.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, because all the times I've been to prison I never had this kind of feelings. When I go to prison, it's like okay, let me adapt to that lifestyle, because I know what I have to do to survive in there. And then when I get out, I was still the same person. This time, reading that Bible, something changed and I felt comfortable and I even taught myself the 23rd Psalms by doing push-ups.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Wow, yeah, because if I would mess up on, I give myself 50, I have to do a set of 50 push-ups and if I messed up reciting the Psalms, I have to start all over again. It's a good way to get a workout.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, it was great, you know, workout for Jesus, you know, and it was good. But a seed had been planted and when I got out of prison, that last time I no longer felt that I wanted to live that lifestyle. But again, that's me being, you know, raw on the outs but wanting to do something different. And that's when I learned the power of prayer and all of that stuff. And so I started getting my life in order. I got a job at a telemarketing place which taught me how to accept rejection, and it's fascinating for me. I call God my higher power. I use those changes interchangeably, so do I.

Vernon West Jr.:

I like that better myself. I have a lot of trouble with the word God. I mean, I don't know why, ever since I was a working telemarketing, I'm being this new person.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I'm learning how to use my words instead of my fist. I'm learning how to. If somebody said something to me, that's your opinion. That's not a fact. It doesn't have to. It's just because it's your opinion doesn't mean it's a fact. It's just your opinion. And I. I learned that if, what is that saying? Opinion, opinions are like um the circle in your bottom everybody. I was wondering how you're gonna put that they all like that. Everyone's got one yeah, everyone's got one.

Anthony Howard Brown:

They all stink yeah they all stink so I learned that and I learned to um, accept people as being flawed, just as I was, because there's nobody perfect, right. And so I have this new philosophy, this new way of life and everything's going great. And then one day I went to the park where I used to end up sleeping in a park at the end. I mean, I am. I was one of those homeless people that are that you see on tv. You know the dirty clothes disheveled hanging out in back alleys drinking wine out of a brown paper bag. I tell people I was a connoisseur of fine grapes. I like my grapes aged in brown paper sack. Oh, that's a lot.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah yeah, I drink only the most exquisite bouquet. That's Wild Irish Rose Thunderbird mixed with Kool-Aid and MD-2020. But I'm a classy connoisseur and I won't drink wine out of a box.

Vernon West Jr.:

You draw the line there.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I will smoke crack out of a car antenna.

Vernon West Jr.:

You've got to have your boundaries.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, exactly. And so I changed from that lifestyle. And here I am I have two years sober and I went back to that park I used to sleep at and I sat at that park and that's when I asked God. I mean, I believe, if you want information, go right to the source, Don't beat around the bush, Just go. And so I sat at that bench and I said you know what, God? I know cars run on gas and I know this bench is solid. I know this for a fact. Prove to me you exist and I will do anything you want me to do. And I had such a profound experience that rocked me to the core of my belief.

Vernon West III.:

Was it right then. It was then Like an immediate, immediate.

Anthony Howard Brown:

What happened was, first of all, I believe God touches every one of us in a unique way that only we understand.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's what makes it possible.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And right after I said that, I opened my eyes and the trees above me were in 3d and they were pastel and I looked down at the ground and all these little animals came off. The hillside was surrounding my bench oh this really happened. I was given I felt this really comfort within myself. It was just a calmness that I still have today, and I was given three instructions One, don't hurt anybody. Two, don't hate. And three, always finish what you start. That's wonderful, those three, and I've lived with that now for 25 years.

Vernon West Jr.:

Wow.

Vernon West III.:

Wow, I have full chills. That's heavy.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, it is. And the fascinating thing was, since that day I started picking up projects to do, I started going to school studying to be a psychiatric technician. Now, mind you, here I am a person on probation, a person on parole, barely able to make ends meet by working in telemarketing, and I'm told to go to school with an eighth grade education. I got my GED in jail and so I go to my first community college and I'm taking this psychiatric technician course and I pass the course. That's great. And then I applied to get my license to practice as a psychiatric technician. They gave me my license and so I'm going to school doing this, I'm going to meetings, I am working in telemarketing, I'm staying sober. I'm going to school doing this, I'm going to meetings, I am working in telemarketing, I'm staying sober, I'm doing everything.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And next thing, you know, since I'm in school and I got my psych tech license, ended up getting an associate science degree in psychiatry technology and then I took up a couple more classes and then I got an associate in arts degree in general education. So now I have two degrees, you know, and I'm like and I'm praying a lot, god is like my best friend. I mean, we're cool, we can talk about everything any way possible. That's just the kind of relationship I have with him. And so I'm doing all of this stuff, you know, and I'm continuing to go to school, and suddenly I start working at this treatment center.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And so I'm at this treatment center, they allow me to live there, I'm living in sober living, I'm working in treatment, I'm not paying any rent, I'm going to school and everything's great, and so I decided that I'm going to. Actually, when I was at the treatment center on my way to my parole office, the CEO of that treatment center just mentioned hey, it'd be nice if we had a dual diagnosis program. And I'm like, okay, you want one? She goes, yeah, I'm like okay, and so I started one and I finished it and I created a dual diagnosis program for this treatment center that took care of mental health and substance abuse people.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's impressive.

Anthony Howard Brown:

That's awesome too. What a good thing to do. It's gone, because no matter what I pick up, once I pick something up, I have to finish it, whether I like it or not. Gotcha, it's great for when you, I have a habit of just going to the theater just because I want to go, and whatever's playing at that moment, I'm going to watch it. Going to the theater just because I want to go, and whatever's playing at that moment, I'm going to watch it. I got to see a bunch of movies I never would have picked out, never, you know, with different subtitles and you know, all these different foreign films. I'm like, oh, this is interesting, but once I sit down, I have to finish it.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's right. Being obedient to that higher power, yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And I learned I just did a footwork and later results after God. It doesn't matter what I think or feel, Just do it.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's it. And so, wow, I can still relate to that, because I just want to just interject a little bit. I really want to hear from you, but I just tell you that I relate so much to that whole experience about the quiet that came over you because the same thing happened to me after when I, when I first moved into my home, after living my life with my I had a rough childhood too. My father died from alcohol drink and he died at 42 when I was 17. So I was going against a lot of things in my mind about even buying a house. So when I, when the day came that I finally got this house and I had got it through a really miraculous thing. I mean it was. I don't want to waste too much time on it, but it was. It was a miracle, a definite miracle.

Vernon West Jr.:

And I'm standing on the out there on the right near my sliders, looking out at my new backyard, and I said god, I mean higher, I, I, I was talking to god all the time. I still do. How do I ever thank you? How? What do I get for the god who has everything? You know, can I get you a tie? Mean, it's not going to happen. So all of a sudden, everything got really quiet. You said that I knew exactly how you felt because everything got so quiet. I could hear a pin drop. And then I heard in my mind three little words, like as if they were written with the point of a common pin. It said feed my sheep. And I said from then on, I dedicated my life to. Everything I did was to feed a sheep. That's why this podcast exists. So anyway, back to you, anthony.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Okay, and so I'm going through this and I'm thanking God all the time. I mean I pray a lot. I pray like twice a day, no matter what. You know, I believe that for me, when I get up in the morning, I hit my knees before I hit my feet, you know and then I have a chit chat with God and then I sit down and I go over a list of you know what am I grateful for? You know I'm grateful I can see. I'm grateful I can breathe. You know I'm grateful I have a blanket. I'm grateful I have batteries in my remote control so I don't have to get out of bed to turn on a TV.

Vernon West Jr.:

There's so many things to be grateful for. You start thinking listing them it is.

Anthony Howard Brown:

it is you know, and I've once heard, that grateful people are happy people and those that aren't aren't absolutely.

Vernon West Jr.:

I read a book about that. A jesuit did a research and he wrote a book. He researched happiness and he interviewed hundreds of people rich people, poor people, happy rich people, miserable rich people you know, I mean everything, each one and he found that the only common denominator to happiness was gratitude. You, if you didn't have gratitude, you could not experience happiness.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yep, and I believe that, and I go by. I'm a firm believer in just show me, and I believe it. Well, god has shown me so much, so much. And so here I am, working for this treatment center, developing this program, going to school, and at that point I think I went to school to become a certified addiction treatment counselor. And so now I'm a psychiatric technician, I'm a certified addiction treatment counselor, and I finally got off parole and I decided I want to go to school to become a nurse. And so I went to school and I signed up for the RN program.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And it was really interesting because I asked them if I finished this course and I know I'm going to get fingerprinted and they're going to come back with something, will you allow me to be a nurse? And they would say well, we can't tell you that you have to finish the course. And so I'm not necessarily in a dilemma, but I'm at a turning point. Do I invest my money and time and effort and go to school for nothing, or do I just do it and leave the results up to God? So I charged, I went to the ladder, I just did it and, sure enough, after I completed school, they told me that well, we're sorry, we can't give you a nursing license.

Anthony Howard Brown:

However, we could give it to you if we put you on probation and you take these urine tests and you're good for three years Now. When they said that, I smiled why, I know probation, so okay, and I've been sober at that time probably 10 years, like I could go to a meeting you know at that point right, yeah, you trusted yourself yeah, and to give them a clean test, that's nothing.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I was like okay, you know, I've been clean for 10 years and so I got through that. And during that time period, somebody told me they like, you know you have a good story, you should write a book about it, and so.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I wrote the book and somewhere somebody gave my book to Christine Devine from Fox News and Christine was doing a show about the homeless people and doing her show, dr Drew Penske just happened to be at the studio and he got my book. And then Christine calls me and she goes Dr Drew wants to meet you. And I'm like, oh, ok. And so next thing I know he's called, we're doing a podcast. And he's saying yeah, you know, I really admire what you're doing. You know you're doing great out there. Everybody needs to hear your story. And I'm like, okay, and then things just like blew up. I'm like, well, and I'm sitting there going. You know, god, you didn't tell me this stuff.

Vernon West Jr.:

Well, he doesn't have to tell you Wonderful things are happening. That's all you have to know.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Right, just do the footwork, finish what you start and leave the results alone. And so here I am, doing all this stuff, and I decided, okay, I want to go back to school to get my bachelor's degree. And so all of this is going on while I'm still going to school, I got my bachelor's degree and, you know, everything was everything was great. And then I decided that, you know, addiction can be a family disease. You know, my mother drank, I drank and used all my brothers and sisters, and so so you know, a lot of people don't come out of it, and I felt part of my men's was to help my family, because I isolated from everybody when I was out there in my disease.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And so I decided that, you know, my brother needed some help, and so I bought this. He was living in a building that was abandoned, and I understand what it's like to live in abandoned buildings because I've been there and I've done that. And so I had a few extra coins and I said, okay, find out who owns that building and I'll buy it. Then you're no longer trespassing. But he couldn't do it, and so instead I bought another building, which turned out to be an abandoned 1916 9000 square foot mansion.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's nice.

Vernon West III.:

Okay, good investment.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, you know. I mean back in Ohio I'm learning there's a lot of abandoned buildings, a lot of old abandoned buildings, and so I bought this with hopes that my brother could take it over and things of that nature, and he was unable to do it. And so during this whole process, here I am in school getting my bachelor's, and I come up with a concept on how to write a brand new transitional program for homeless people, and so I wrote a program specifically designed for people that are homeless. Homelessness isn't about just without a house. There's a reason why somebody's homeless.

Anthony Howard Brown:

One thing I've done with my research is you see very, very few babies homeless. If a mother gives birth in the street, child Protective Services will take the child and put it in some sort of shelter. So it's like, okay, well, where do these people come from? And that's what I based all my analysis on and figured out a structured plan on how to transition people out of that. And so here it is I have this empty building, I have this plan, but I'm in california and everything's doing good. Just because you write a book doesn't mean you're a millionaire. Believe me, I am not a millionaire, but I talk to God all the time, and through one of our conversations, god told me it's his money, not mine, and I'm like okay.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's a good one. I like that.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, well, you can't take it with you.

Vernon West Jr.:

No, you can't.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I've never once seen a U-Haul trailer connected to a hearse Never, that's right.

Vernon West Jr.:

There's an old saying about the richest man in the world at the time, j Paul Getty. Someone asked him how much is enough, and he said a little bit more. And then they said when he died, how much did he leave? And the answer was everything right.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Right, even the Egyptians tried by getting buried with it and they just dug it up and put it in the museum, you know. And so when I heard that, I'm like, okay, if that's what I'm supposed to do, that's what I'm supposed to do. And so I'm sitting in California by then I start working on my master's. I'm a teacher at a community college. In the meantime, this house is sitting in Ohio, nothing's happening. I'm sitting in California. By then I start working on my master's. I'm a teacher at a community college. In the meantime, this house is sitting in Ohio, nothing's happening. I'm 3,000 miles away and I'm praying about it.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And then that's when God says, well, just give up everything and go there. And I'm like but you know, I'm living in California, god. I mean, I live in Orange County, I'm in the beaches, right down the street, and I'm making like six digits a year. And it's like, and God's like well, when you were homeless, how much money did you have? And I'm like none, you know. And he goes how much money was you born with? I'm like none. And he's like well, how much are you going to take with you when you die? None, he goes. Good, because it's all mine, let it go, and I'm like, okay. And so I retired as a teacher and came out here to Ohio. I cashed out all of my 401K everything and put it towards that house, or FACE my 401k everything and put it towards that house on faith. And now I'm out here developing this program on faith and it's really fascinating because, no matter what happens, I have a heck of a story to tell, right, you know?

Vernon West Jr.:

I mean definitely this is so inspiring, Anthony. I mean I'm very inspired by this. I relate in every level, right down to the cashing out my 401k, like this podcast is pretty much that, to be doing everything I can to listen to what God is telling me, what my higher power wants me to do, and I feel like you're very inspiring and I'm going to keep saying that. I'm sorry if it gets a little monotonous, but it really is true. So tell us more about the place in Ohio.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Okay, I don't know if you can see it, but over here that's a picture of the house.

Vernon West Jr.:

I see it.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yes, we see it, and that's Brown Manor and it's all over the internet and I've done interviews and all of that stuff, because we're one thing I've learned that when you take an abandoned 1916 mansion that's been sitting there for a long time, a lot of work has to be done oh yeah a lot and I'm like, okay, god, when I, when I first walked into that house, I went in the side door and the ceilings were falling down, there was mildew all over the place.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I mean you can literally hear the water dripping in the basement. There was a dry bat hanging off the light and I'm like, oh Lord. Then I went to the hotel room and I prayed and I came back the next day and I seen the most beautiful place on this entire planet. I mean it has crystal glass windows, it has stained glass windows, it has 10 bedrooms. I mean it's just and it's like, okay, I'm ready whatever you want me to do. And so I prayed about it. I moved out here because I sold my house in California. I was able to buy a house out here, and so now I have a permanent resident. I'm right down the street from Brown Manor. I'm using my book sales for it. I come to believe, or I came to believe that one of the things I believe that if you're not moving forward, look at what's holding you back. That's really important. If there's anything you want to do in this life and you're not moving towards it, what's holding you back? What chain is holding you back?

Vernon West Jr.:

Say that one more time, just for posterity, if you're not moving forward.

Anthony Howard Brown:

If you're not moving forward, look and see what's holding you back. There's something you're chained to Amen. That is so profound. And I made some amazing discoveries, you know, by writing and talking to God and listening to what's going on. I learned to let go of a lot of stuff, because when we hang on to something, we don't have room to put nothing else in our hands. So if you and just because you let go doesn't mean you have to release it Letting go is just opening your hands up and the whispers of God will blow it away if it's not supposed to be there. Wonderful. And I discovered that.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And so part of my transition, like okay, great, I'm sober, great, my life is moving forward, I'm doing okay in society. But there's still something there that I'm uncomfortable with and I had to uncover, discover and discard what it was in that closet. Like, for instance, I didn't like cooking, despised it and I couldn't figure out why. And when I look back at it, it all went back to me as being a little kid, when my mother used to get drunk and she'd make me cook her scrambled eggs. If the eggs wasn't a certain consistency, she would throw the plate at me. I didn't realize that held me back from wanting to cook and shop and everything that goes with it. And so once I forgave her and said well, you know what it's not like in the 60s in your condition, you was reading Dr Spock's book on how to raise a child. Okay, and so I accepted that. I forgave her and now I started out cooking small. I started out with a crock pot, which was great.

Vernon West III.:

Stead it and forget it.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, yeah. But the crock pot is tricky, especially when it comes to seasoning, because I'm cooking is different layers. And so I remember once I was cooking some beans and they taste bland. And I went to my friends at the meeting who, in those meetings, everybody knows everything, of course and so I ask them I go, you know, my beans are bland. I put some garlic in it, ok, and so I come home, put on my little apron with the crab that says kiss the cook, cause I'm, I'm extreme, yeah, and I'm sitting there chopping up garlic and onion, I've put them in my beans and next thing, you know, my whole house smells like garlic. I'm, I'm eating garlic soup and it's coming out of my pores. And I go back to the meeting it garlic. And they're like what happened? I'm like, well, you told me put garlic in it. And I'm like, well, how much garlic did you put in it? I put one of those balls in it and they're like no, you know, now I know the difference between a bulb and a club.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, for sure yeah, big difference from a crock pot, I discovered HelloFresh. And next thing, you know, I'm salting orange pills and all kinds of stuff, and so you know, everything is a process and I'm going through all of these things. And one of the things I discovered that, because of the abuse that occurred in my childhood and I blamed it on my mother I come to realize that she did what she could with what she had, and so, in honor of her and me wanting to use it as a symbol of hurt people hurt people I developed a non-profit in her name called the Jeanette Jones-Tappel Foundation and this way and we're geared towards just helping out people discover what's really going on with homelessness. And so I have that going on, I have Brown Manor going on and I'm just enjoying life. I have the privilege of being on shows like yours to discuss that there's more to being homeless than being homeless.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yeah, so you know, that's a great thing to just to make that statement, because so many people in the world are marginalized because of their homelessness and people don't want to pay it. They put up a wall and they try to dehumanize it and they forget these are human beings too. These are people like us. There's somebody's brother, somebody's son, somebody's daughter, and they're dealing with an issue that is way more complicated than just being unhoused. It's a lot more like you were saying.

Vernon West Jr.:

I love that program you're talking about. It sounds so interesting. We've got to put a link to all these things at the end of your podcast so that people can look deeper into this stuff, because I'm personally going to look into it, because I just had a guest on that was very much into helping homeless people and he's going to really, really, really love what you're saying. I'm going to tell him to make sure he watches this, but you are onto something very, very good with this. I know that this problem is huge in the United States and in the world, so it's something we really need to put a little energy into, a lot more energy than we are now, but go ahead.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, I come to the conclusion because, again, I have a PhD in vagrancy. I lived out there for 23 years.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yep.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And now I have a master's degree in nursing and so I have knowledge from both worlds Right, and I'm able to see things that other people can't. And what I do know is, again, it's a complex issue, but it's not as complicated as we think it is. It's not as simple as we think it is, but it's not as complicated as we think it is. A lot of people think it's more along the lines that I mean we can throw it in the category.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, we understand that being without health we know what can cost that. We understand that you know you might not have enough money. You don't have the income. We understand that you might have a mental illness. We understand that you may have a substance abuse problem. We understand that there's even a small fragment of that population that has learning disabilities, that they were raised by their parent and unable to take care of themselves. Then a parent passes away and we have a homeless person. There's a lot of different elements, but the one thing that I focus on is that whole cognitive restructuring. You believe who you are by what. You believe who you are.

Vernon West Jr.:

See one more time. Let me think about that. You believe?

Anthony Howard Brown:

who you are by what you believe. Who you are.

Vernon West Jr.:

Okay, so your own predisposition. As far as what you think you are, it's the thinking.

Anthony Howard Brown:

A classic example. You know what makes a physician good Go ahead Because he believes he's a physician.

Vernon West Jr.:

You know, that's definitely a good thing to say. I can honestly say my experience with physicians, that's true.

Anthony Howard Brown:

You know what makes a musician good Believing he's a good musician, because he knows he's a good musician.

Vernon West III.:

I was just going to say that getting a job out here is like people go. How much do you charge? And you have to go. I believe I'm worth $250 an hour, please, and then you just hope that they agree.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Right, right. But once you get that solidified in your consciousness, that's who you are. You've already fortified yourself with the facts to prove that, beyond a shadow of a doubt. I'm a very good psychiatric nurse. I am and I can resolve. I can solve a lot of different issues and I can educate myself to get better at what I do, because this is who I believe I am. When somebody's homeless, if you keep calling them a homeless person, that's what they're going to believe, right, and that's what they're going to do. A homeless person things.

Vernon West Jr.:

You know. I heard a saying once that, as far as how you treat people, a person said to me if you call a dog by a certain name, the dog starts to answer. It's the same thing for people. It's just what you're saying. If you say that to them, well, they're going to think that's what they are.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Right and they're going to behave in that aspect and get reinforced. So not only are they believing it, but all the external factors are reinforcing that fact, to solidify that belief.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yep, that's it, and it becomes more and more hard to shed it.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Right, but that's the whole philosophy behind Brown Manor. Once it's up and running, for one thing, there's only 10 people that's going to live in that 9,000 square foot mansion. And guess what? You live in a mansion Okay Period. I love it. That's the whole thing. And you're an individual that just have ineffective coping skills. You're not a bad person. You just need to be educated more on how to do things better. That's the language we use, opposed to saying you'll never get it or you're a failure. Why did you do that wrong? It's like no. I understand that sometimes it takes. Progress is a process, and I reinforce approximations. You got it this morning. Congratulations, great job. You made your bed this morning Good. Now that you know how to make your bed and you understand why, I'm going to reinforce that. But then you're going to start repeating that behavior all the time to get that reinforcement and then I can fade that from saying good job all the time At the end of the week. It's like you did super well.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Do your patients come in and eventually like graduate to you get this, you get to stay a year and within one year, it's not. It's not a program and it's not a shelter. It's your home and that's what we want people to understand now, dealing with society and putting it together. They don't want to label it because, unfortunately, funding is geared towards labels. Correct, you know, you got a shelter for homeless people. We'll give you money. You have a home for people who are just learning how not to do ineffective coping skills.

Anthony Howard Brown:

We don't have a program for that, we don't have funding for that. Okay, but that's what's needed. And so, setting up this example now we can be able to have some form of communication so that we can at least get people to start speaking that language and maybe we can start thinking different on how to solve this issue, because we're not even counting the true number of people that are homeless, true number of people that are homeless. There's a whole invisible population out there that's couch surfing in hotels, sleeping in their cars. They're only counting the person that they see laying on the streets. You have the pre-homeless. Those are about to be. Truth be told, a lot of people are just one paycheck away from being homeless.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's exactly true about the USA right now. That's true.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I see it, and so part of what I want to do is I want to get in and educate those that are pre-homeless and let them know okay, you lost your job being a CEO at a company for right now. Go work someplace where at least you can get hired. So it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to make a bunch of money, but that's going to help you with your dignity and your self-worth and routine give you some day-to-day balance.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, yeah, because if not, you'll sit around, you'll get depressed. Once you get depressed, then what?

Vernon West III.:

spiral.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Oh yeah, I've been there exactly, and, and we're all gifted the same amount of time. That's a lifetime. Once it's over, it's over, so we just get to do this until then, and so, in the meantime, I want to dedicate my time, my research, making connections with people, getting them to understand that there's more to being homeless than being homeless.

Vernon West III.:

I have a question for you. Yes, in this process, like are you, do you like visit this home often? Or like, are you like present in their lives?

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah well, right now, right now we're still structuring it, we're still going through the whole construction phase because, as I said, rebuilding an abandoned mansion takes a lot of money.

Vernon West III.:

A bad force, yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And so right now we're. We just raised the funds because I had to redo the entire plumbing and sewer system. I didn't see that one coming. You know, I didn't, I didn't. I didn't see the city saying well, you know, even though you want to help people, you have to have permits and licenses. So you got to pay us a bunch of money to get all of that. I didn't see none of that.

Vernon West III.:

Is that stuff that you think God left out? And it was just sort of like do you think you're pushed to that mission without knowing those details, kind of intentionally?

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yes, yes, because I'm supposed to learn patience. Somehow I'm supposed to learn forgiveness. Somehow it's easy to say okay, I'm patient when it comes to dealing with my patients, because I work in a behavioral unit, I'm patient when it comes to that.

Anthony Howard Brown:

But what happens when you get blindsided? Are you ready for that, you know? Are you ready to say okay, society, even though I don't agree with you, I still have to jump through the hoops to get what you have so I can help other people. Yes, because in the meantime, no matter what I'm going through, god always gives me this little snippet that says you're on the right track and so, yes, I will be definitely in their lives With our foundation. I set up the foundation overseeing that house, and the beauty of it is, once my expiration date comes because we all have an expiration date once it comes, the foundation in that house will still continue to move.

Anthony Howard Brown:

If I can be there for everybody, I would, but it all depends on what God wants me to do. But the best I can do is to continue to do podcasts, continue to be honest. Somebody wants me to speak at some place. That's one way I can raise revenue. I'll go speak. I'll do whatever it takes to try to get at least one person to think a little different. Just one one at a time. And if anybody has doubt, I'm proof in the pudding. I mean, I used to eat cheeseburgers out of a dumpster. I used to be a drug addict and now I have a license to prescribe medication.

Vernon West Jr.:

To do something that you never would have done back then, for sure.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Never, never. I didn't think I'd be a nurse practitioner. I know that wasn't in the cards. It shows I didn't think I'd be a nurse practitioner. That wasn't in the cards, you know. It shows you what you know about the cards. Exactly now I just sit down and I'm grateful to be at the table to play you know.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yeah, definitely one of the things we talk about on Out of the Blue, because we're talking about a higher power and you have such a strong, really incredibly tight relationship with your higher power. And you have such a strong, really incredibly tight relationship with your higher power, chatting with them and getting immediate answers. I feel that it's very. I don't doubt it for one minute. I know you're doing that, but in the out of the blue world, for a lot of people out there who aren't devoted, found any religion, they just want to know what's going on. They're lost in a lot of ways. The things that come out of the blue are like when you talk to someone would say, when you thought, when it came out of the blue for you to sell your you know, sell your cash and your 401ks and go out to Ohio, that was an out of the blue thing that you did, almost listening to God. Because I feel like when these things come from out of the blue, I mean everybody. We've spoken to everybody.

Vernon West Jr.:

When I always ask them, what do you think out of the blue is? Is it something? What is it? They always come back to this it's got to be something like a higher power, god, whatever you think and that's what I think it is we don't own our life. We do have an expiration date, and I love the fact that we don't own the money, nothing. We don't own material things at all. Really, right, and it's all everything. We're the most amazing things that came out of the blue. Us people, humans, I mean, this is really what. The most amazing story of all that and a bag of chips. You're amazing, anthony. I can't believe. I'm so fortunate it was so fortunate to have you on and you came out of the blue to us.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I was going to say you think this came out of the?

Vernon West Jr.:

blue. Yeah, you came out of the blue to us because, I mean, we started it and you were one of the first people that reached out to us and I said, like well, this is special. I knew it was something special. The minute I saw your name and I read your thing, I said this is my higher power sending me something very important, not just for me, but for feeding the sheep. That's what it's all about. We got a lot of sheep out there to feed.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Right, and it's cool because we have the hands to feed them.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's right. I'm grateful for that, the opportunity to do it. That's what I say in the morning. Like I say first thing in the morning, I definitely talk to my higher power and the first thing I say is I'm grateful that I'm here. I have another chance.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, and I think that's really important for a lot of people, because we forget to understand the small things that mean a lot. You know, when people wake up in the morning they don't realize that hey I'm awake.

Anthony Howard Brown:

That's a huge thing. That's the most important gift you can get. You know, after that, everything else is, it's all great after that. Yeah, everything else is a bonus. Yeah, everything else is a bonus. Then you throw in the little small things like, okay, well, my bladder still works and I have a restroom, whoa, and the water flushes Right, and I got toilet paper. It's like what the heck? Because during COVID a lot of people didn't have toilet paper. No, we got three of it. So be grateful. It's all the stuff and, like you say, and a bag of chips. And I continue to fortify myself because life does get lifey. I mean, I don't have the privilege of walking around smiling all the time. Life gets lifey, but One more time.

Vernon West Jr.:

Life gets lifey. Yes, life gets lifey. One more time Life gets lifey.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yes, life gets lifey.

Vernon West Jr.:

We're going to probably put that as a highlight for you. Life gets lifey.

Anthony Howard Brown:

You can have that one, but the fact of the matter is that I'm able to have that peace and comfort to navigate life as it presents itself, and that's what's important. You know, I had the privilege of being out here and it snowed and I'm from California and it snowed like snow, snow. And so I go out with the only thing I know, which is a regular coal shovel, and I'm scooping up my driveway. My neighbor is like that's not the proper equipment. I'm like okay. Then she came over and she brings me her shovel. I was like okay, now I know, Things like that mean a lot to me. You know things like that. I have a jacket I can put on. I was homeless. The jacket was my blanket and everything else. Now I have different clothes and so I'm winning, no matter what, Because, again, I know my expiration date is coming eventually and I get to say I literally lived on a park bench to Park Avenue. That's the name of my book too. Quick, cheap plug from park bench to Park Avenue.

Vernon West III.:

Nice, that's clever, but I literally too. Quick, cheap plug from.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Park Ranch to Park Avenue.

Vernon West III.:

Nice, that's clever.

Anthony Howard Brown:

But I literally got to do that.

Vernon West III.:

Available on.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Amazon yes. Available on Amazon yeah, and everything I do goes to Brown Manor, everything I do. When God says it's time for me to come home which is going to be great because I don't have to pay taxes anymore, at least I can say I got to do a lot of stuff. I got to party like there's no tomorrow. I mean, I got to savage my body and I made it.

Vernon West Jr.:

Oh boy.

Vernon West III.:

Yeah, as I told you earlier, I did play music for a while and definitely can relate to that exact statement and I'm also very grateful that I'm here after all that pottying, I'd say there's something to following your heart's whims in a sense, but you know, in moderation of course or you can always just throw conscience.

Anthony Howard Brown:

I told myself I'm at the point in life if I felt that I just wanted to get a minivan or probably a VW bus and just take off and cruise, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. If I decide I want to leave all of this stuff behind, I'm going to do it. If I decide I want to leave all of this stuff behind, I'm going to do it. Why? Because God set me up in a way in which I'm retired, so I have a pension, so, no matter what, I'll get a check every month.

Vernon West III.:

That helps for sure.

Vernon West Jr.:

I hope it's a VW bus, of course. Of course you know why, right, because me and my son are both Vernon West, oh West, we have VWs, oh nice. So we actually did a band together called the VW Bust Band.

Vernon West III.:

Oh, really Not sponsored.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Well, that came out of the blue.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown:

And also the latest book I just finished last night that I wrote about a little talking intellectual bunny. He has a VW bus that has actually VW on the bus, and so that's really fascinating. If we can't live the days and that's super important because we get so caught up in yesterday and tomorrow, it's like we blow today and all we really have, in all honesty, is now.

Vernon West Jr.:

That's it. That is so right. I mean, that's profound and it's so true. All we have is the moment, and if you get lost in the future or the past, you're missing it.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, who was it? I think it was Kansas. Dust in the wind. Yeah, there's a little thing that says only for a moment and a moment's gone.

Vernon West Jr.:

Yeah, yeah I did a show. I did a show with Kansas, that's a matter of fact. Yeah, I love those guys.

Anthony Howard Brown:

They were great guys, matter of fact, I love those guys, they're great guys.

Anthony Howard Brown:

So, having said that, having knowing that, then what are we going to do with life now, now that we're armed with the facts, what are we going to do? You know me, I'm going to help out our brothers and sisters in the streets. Continue to give because that's what I'm supposed to do and just enjoy life, even if it's just to sit down with somebody and go. You know what. I understand what you're going through. I understand. I can tell and we can have a comfortable conversation.

Anthony Howard Brown:

If you want money because you have an addiction, let's talk about that. Am I going to give you money for your addiction? No, but I will feed you. That I will do. We can meet every day and talk about something different, and I don't mind. I don't mind Because in the end, once I go through that transition after my expiration date, where am I going to go? I'm hoping that there's the heaven that they all talked about and I get to kick it with God and go hey, dude, check it out. You've seen it. You know it's like can I at least have a recliner or something while I'm chilling, you know.

Vernon West Jr.:

And then that's wonderful.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, and so I get to smile, I get to be happy, I get to be content in my moments, and that's priceless, that is priceless.

Vernon West Jr.:

Well, anthony Brown, I tell you right now out of the blue, we're very grateful to have you in our out of the blue family. And Vernon has one more question before we go ahead, Vernon.

Vernon West III.:

Yeah, because man, I would, I could. I gotta go kind of soon, but I could definitely like pick your brain for a while, cause I appreciate how you're like making this all very like practical, Because, like it's tough, I think my age group I live in LA right now there's a lot of people that are agnostic or the other one, I forget what it's called at the moment Atheist.

Vernon West III.:

Yeah, and there's. You know, we grew up pretty, I grew up pretty spiritual. There's a lot of societal pressure to sort of discredit this god's talk. I personally do believe in god and like I have a spirituality, but I I do kind of struggle with like fully being confident, honestly. So, like my question is and this is for everyone, everyone, not just me Like what kind of advice would you give people that will allow them to enter into that like that profound, like clear space, or get as close to that as possible where you can hear some sort of message that feels like it's from a higher power and it's not just your thoughts kind of going power and it's not just your thoughts, kind of going like how, how would you? How would you advise someone who maybe just likes to meditate to get into that headspace, to be open to these out of the blue moments?

Vernon West Jr.:

how would you do it? Or?

Vernon West III.:

or or for yeah, for someone who hasn't necessarily been or is, is not aware of their, like a deep traumatic experience that can rock them to their core and then like clear up all their consciousness. Is there a way to get there without doing that intense like, getting that intense level of like awakening? Or is that are they like tied together.

Anthony Howard Brown:

No. Rule number one Okay, learn how to be honest with yourself. Okay, once you're honest with yourself, then you'll start believing what you're seeing. Rule number two ask.

Anthony Howard Brown:

If you have to ask specifically, ask specific and when you get a specific answer, be honest with yourself. You know, I asked God to prove himself and the trees turned pastel and I didn't question it. And the reason why I waited so long to ask that question because I had to have two years of absence of mind, altering stuff for me to know that what I see is real and then the continuation of all of this stuff happened. I mean. So be honest with yourself, even if you have to say, okay, look, I know water's wet. How do you know water's wet? Because I can reinforce that. Okay, now ask yourself a question. Now believe in what you see and be honest about it. Don't try to push it aside now. That's just coincidental, okay, Well then that's fine, you know. But if you're able to be honest with yourself and I think that's a huge question for people to even do it's like can I deal with me?

Vernon West Jr.:

Really, that is it pretty much.

Anthony Howard Brown:

You will see. You will see Beyond the normality of things. You will see it and when you see it, go, okay, that's what that is, and then continue to build on it. If that's what that is, then what about this? And next thing, you know, you'll come to realize that everything is little puzzle pieces just swirling around and once in a while they'll connect, like oh, okay, it might not stay, but they will connect and you'll get a better understanding, as long as you're honest. Now some, some people will ask for certain things like god, I want a car and you get a job instead. Okay, great, you know. How do you think you're going to pay for the car?

Vernon West Jr.:

You've got to listen, but that honesty is key because you have to listen. That answer might not be exactly what you think it should be.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Right right.

Anthony Howard Brown:

It might not. I mean, when God told me to come here and sell everything and come out here and do this project, like how I'm going to do it. Now I turn around. I work at a hospital, I have a, I'm a nurse practitioner, I own my house, I own my car. I have no build per se, that's how I'm going to do it. You know, I have no build per se, that's how I'm going to do it. And again, I don't have to complete it, I just have to do it. This only might be just my part, I don't know, but I do it to the best of my ability and I'm comfortable doing it. Therefore, I'm on the right track. So, as far as people meditating, meditation is perfect. Meditation is perfect because all you're doing is just removing all the external stimuli so you can feel the truth of what's happening in a natural order. But believe it, because when you get those little vibrations and you know all of that stuff, believe what you feel, be honest with yourself boy.

Vernon West Jr.:

that's end it right. Thank you so much for this amazing, amazing podcast. Anthony Brown, You're a special person. You really are, Absolutely. Man think, yeah, I feel like you're in my tribe. I suppose you know we're in the same kind of. I'm in the same world. You are really, spiritually, I feel, very much your kin, so you gave me so much inspiration today. How do you feel, Vern? Same thing, I bet Right.

Vernon West III.:

Yeah, I mean this is clearly like two people whose jobs are, in their faith in something higher, being drawn to each other, like oh, thank you. This is this is an example of what we're talking about. It's pretty cool.

Vernon West Jr.:

Well, so I'm going to say thank you, anthony, once again, and maybe we'll check back with you out of the blue for another episode in some sometime in the future, cause we'll keep tabs on you and the and the Brown, what's it called?

Anthony Howard Brown:

The.

Vernon West Jr.:

Brown Manor. Okay, yeah, everybody should look that up online too, right, the Brown Manor?

Anthony Howard Brown:

Yeah, it's all over the place.

Vernon West Jr.:

And your wonderful book.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Park Bench to Park Avenue. One Man's Journey Out of Homelessness.

Vernon West Jr.:

Well, thank you so much, Anthony, for this wonderful episode today and thank you everybody for tuning in with us. My guest host, my host is, my co-host is Vernon, my son, Vernon III, and we especially thank you, the listeners, for tuning in, sharing a valuable time with us. We know how valuable it is. So thank you so much, Anthony, and I really, really you're part of the Audubon family and I'm totally honored to have you.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Well, thank you, I appreciate you having me Okay good night.

Vernon West Jr.:

Thanks so much, Anthony.

Anthony Howard Brown:

Okay, you guys have a great day you too. Bye-bye everybody.

Vernon West Jr.:

Out of the Blue, the podcast Hosted by me, vernon West, co-hosted by Vernon West III, edited by Joe Gallo Music and logo by Vernon West III. Have an Out of the Blue story of your own you'd like to share? Reach us at info at outoftheblue-thepodcastorg. Subscribe to Out of the Blue on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, and on our website, outoftheblue-thepodcastorg. You can also check us out on Patreon for exclusive content.