Freedom, Faith, And Justice System Reform with Christopher "Life" Willars

Christopher "Life" Willars, author of "144: Prison, Pain, and the Pathway to Freedom", discusses how he rose from a 144-year prison sentence to becoming a national voice for redemption and justice system reform. His story reveals how systems harden people, how mentors and faith can redirect a life, and why real public safety starts with real rehabilitation.

Chris brings us inside the mechanics of surviving prison culture: why education becomes currency, how influence can be used to keep the yard calm, and what it took to walk away from gang leadership. He speaks openly about grief delivered through a chaplain’s door, the funerals he couldn’t attend, and the work of mending familial fractures from inside a cell. That pain forged a mission to build a bridge back to community for people returning home with trauma, addiction, and untreated mental illness.

His nonprofit, Life Unit Inc., delivers reentry and recovery support across the country. A theme rises again and again: choose love over hate, service over status, and action over slogans. Darkness, he says, is where he found the light, and where many will find their own.

For more on Christopher Willars: 

https://www.christopherwillars.com/

Chapters

• 0:22 Setting The Stage For Transformation
• 0:59 Facing 144 Years And Choosing Purpose
• 5:48 The Night Everything Went Wrong
• 8:24 Prison Reality And Broken Systems
• 10:59 Learning To Survive Behind Bars
• 12:41 Gang Life, Influence, And A Turning Point
• 14:43 Faith, Mentors, And Walking Away
• 17:36 Building Platforms And Real-World Impact
• 21:49 144: Prison, Pain, And Pathway To Freedom
• 24:37 Loss, Grief, And Family Healing
• 28:18 Service, Momentum, And Honest Leadership
• 32:38 Healthcare, Inequity, And Compassion
• 36:25 Content, Community, And The AI Future
• 41:45 Love Over Hate And Everyday Goodness
• 50:44 Final Lesson: Light Found In Darkness
• 53:00 Credits, Ways To Connect, And Support

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:22

Welcome to Out of the Blue the Podcast, where we shine a light on the moments that change everything. The ones that challenge us, reshape us, and remind us that transformation is always possible, even from the darkest corners of life. I'm your host, Vernon West, joined by my son and co-host Vernon West III, a gifted musician and creative visionary who brings his own spark to these conversations about resilience, redemption, and the power of truth. Today's guest is someone whose story is nothing short of extraordinary. Christopher Life Willers was born in Chicago and once faced a hundred and forty-four-year prison sentence. But instead of letting that define him, he turned his pain into purpose. After serving seventeen years, he emerged with a renewed mission to be a voice for those still fighting for freedom inside and out and to shine a light on the harsh realities of our justice system. Through his book 144, Prison, Pain, and the Pathway to Freedom, Chris doesn't just tell his story, he tells our story. The story of millions who have battled incarceration, addiction, and mental illness, yet still found a way to rise. His message is simple but profound. No matter how far you've fallen, you can always rise again. This is a conversation about resilience, redemption, and the miracle of second chances. So sit back, open your heart, and join us for this powerful journey because this one truly defines what it means to come out of the blue. Good afternoon, Chris, and welcome to Out of the Blue the podcast.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19

I'm glad to be here, guys. Thank you for having me, and thank you for the amazing introduction as well. I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25

You deserve it, man. I mean, seriously, there ain't a word I said that wasn't true. Is that your hat? Is that what Life Unit Incorporated?

SPEAKER_02: 2:35

Yeah, yeah, this is one of our hats. Uh Life Unit Inc. is my nonprofit. Yep, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:42

That's beautiful. I'd love to get one.

SPEAKER_02: 2:44

We got you. I was about to say, let after we're done, just let me know what color. Hey, we got you for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:50

I love the black one. That's right.

SPEAKER_02: 2:52

Yeah, this is our classic. We we wear a lot of black with with the white, you know, lettering on our stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 2:57

So we do a merch exchange.

SPEAKER_02: 3:00

Do a merch. I love hey, I love merch. So, and uh yeah, I love hoodies, so hey I got my hoodie right on now.

SPEAKER_00: 3:05

This is my out of the blue hoodie.

SPEAKER_02: 3:07

Let's worth something out for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 3:10

So, anyway, um, we always start at the beginning, which is well, I don't know, not when you were born, but basically the beginning, the when it all started, you know. Let's start at the beginning when the out of the blue hit you like a ton of bricks, probably.

SPEAKER_02: 3:23

I've actually had a couple moments in my life, um, and I'll I'll just speak to them, but I'll I'll go straight to the moment. But I was adopted. I found that out really young, and I always like to mention that in conversations because there's a lot of people that watch my platform, listen to my message that uh maybe have dealt with issues not knowing you know who their family was, etc. Um, but outside of that, pretty normal life. I got adopted by two amazing parents, uh, mom and dad, you know, dad that played catch with me, went to work every single day, you know, gave me a hug before he left, and a mom that that I don't even remember her cussing or you know, drinking licking none of that stuff, you know. Um but through it all growing up, I think I represent that demographic of young people that live on both sides of the track. Um, you know, are good in front of the parents and the friend's parents and maybe the the favorite friend, and but when nobody's watching, maybe the one that ventures out and you know wants to encourage people at times to to you know do some things that they shouldn't do.

SPEAKER_00: 4:27

Yeah, I can relate to that.

SPEAKER_02: 4:29

Yeah, right? Yeah. Um but for the like me as being a catalyst of stuff, I never really got into any serious trouble. Like the biggest extent would be some fights, um, you know, smoking after school, getting caught, stuff like that. Shouldn't do it, but nothing like too crazy or detrimental. Um ended up going to the military, getting in trouble there because of fighting, you know, not really able to figure things out. Um, but the out the blue moment, uh, I guess like the moment that defines my life is when I found myself behind basically a three-minute decision, uh, being sentenced to 144 years in prison and have never been in trouble before, didn't know anything about the justice system, and I'd like to add, nobody got physically harmed, you know, during this crime, though we do acknowledge mental and emotional trauma for sure. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:25

Wow. So what it what what what was next? You were you were caught you went to jail. That must have been an experience and a half.

SPEAKER_02: 5:33

Yeah, I mean, the I go from being this kid that was getting in trouble, this young adult that was getting in trouble, but nothing too serious, and maybe not really understanding how hot the fire could be. And one night I get into a car with my cousin. I decide to drive him and two friends up the street. They asked for a ride and they stuck a place up with a BB gun. And yeah, and I never got out the vehicle, never touched a BB gun, any of these things. But you know, throughout the course of the weeks, I found myself now standing in front of the judge being sentenced to 144 years and being sent to a level four prison. And right, because I I'll tell you this, and everybody is and I hope we get into this part, but everybody that goes to prison isn't a monster.

SPEAKER_00: 6:23

No kidding. I know that for sure. Yes, I do. I don't know if you know, but I I should tell you, I worked for a while with an investigation. I was a private investigator, and we were our job really was to find evidence to get people out of prison that were wrongly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:38

So amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 6:39

Yeah, so I'm very familiar with this this whole business of uh yeah falsely accusing and building up oh my god, crazy stuff just to just to finish the job, you know. That's what they do, a lot of these gats, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 6:54

Yeah, man. It it for them a win is a win, and um that's about it. Yeah, and that's why I fight hard to tell my story because I represent that percentage of young people that make a bad decision and they get thrown into a system and they may turn into monsters or something other than they were.

SPEAKER_00: 7:12

It will, it will do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 7:14

You know, so yeah, um going to jail, going to prison. I didn't come home being sentenced to that amount of time, I was locked up from 2003 to 2020, 17 years. Whoa, wow, I yeah, I grew up in prison.

SPEAKER_00: 7:30

That's right, yeah. You would have.

SPEAKER_02: 7:31

You know, yeah, you have your adolescent years and all that teenage, but typically when young adults we find ourselves typically between 19 and 30, right? We go out here messing things up, break some hearts, get our heart broke, lose some job. Me, I was having to do this in prison.

SPEAKER_00: 7:48

Oh gosh. I used to do I'm I'm I'm a member of a the program that helps people not drink. And and I used to do, you know, panels, they call them, you know, go into and I would go into prisons and sit at having a meeting and talk about experience, strength, and hope. After the meeting, I would talk to a lot of the people there, and 90% of those guys, they're good guys. Half of them, half of them didn't even remember what they did because they were drinking when it happened, and it was like something stupid anyway. And when it wasn't something stupid, they still didn't know. It was so it was so heartbreaking. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:25

No, I mean you you're spot on. I would say last time I looked at an actual number for data, over 70% of people incarcerated struggle from mental illness or addiction.

SPEAKER_00: 8:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 8:38

Like these are are one of the two catalysts. And again, anybody that sees this, this is not, you know, somebody that's been locked up and asking for sympathy. No, I I hold myself accountable, but I'm somebody that has real discussions about prison. I want the taxpayers to know how your money is being invested. I want people to know that a lot of prisons are not rehabilitating people and sending them back to communities better so you're safer, they're actually sending them back worse. And it's good that you touched on that, man, right there.

SPEAKER_00: 9:08

So go tell, you know, because I'm you know, I'm gonna represent my audience who probably none of them have any idea. Tell me how it changes people, what goes on in there? What's the system doing?

SPEAKER_02: 9:19

So got into some trouble, like I mentioned, but coming out of basic training, United States Air Force, active duty, I was an E3 before I got in trouble. I was going to college, 4.0 GPA. Um, was always somebody that got along with everybody, you know, or whatever growing up. When I went to prison, I began to be sucked into this vortex of not being the guy that could get along with everybody because that's not what jail in prison is, you know. Um I relied on the fact that I had a level of education in that environment, which a lot of people unfortunately don't.

SPEAKER_00: 10:01

That's true.

SPEAKER_02: 10:02

But at the same time, I started to use my level of education in ways to manipulate the environment. Like I would help the guys that were the gang leaders, I would learn to communicate with the guards because they couldn't communicate with everybody else, but I was also a veteran. And some just call it survival, and yeah, it was survival, but I was learning to the best of my ability how to become really good at jail and prison pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_00: 10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:28

Um, I understood how to network in an environment like prison. You know, I I could I could communicate with the leader of this gang, this guy, and you know, I was all right with everybody. And then again, growing up in that environment, I wasn't thinking about my freedom. I was thinking about how to get money, uh, how to make a move, how to convince this lady guard to come over here with me, you know, whatever it was. None of the right things because all I seen was prison. I didn't see freedom. And you're 19 years old, you get sentenced to that amount of time, you you're not thinking that life can happen again.

SPEAKER_00: 11:07

No, you're c it's crazy. I mean, you have to be you're thinking this is it, you know, you're gonna survive now. And as far as your your view is concerned, it is about one day at a time, and you're gonna get through it. And it's just what a what a um unbelievably you know, it has to be uh totally traumatic. And so how you got through it, all right, and in those 17 years, something happened. What was that?

SPEAKER_02: 11:36

Yeah, um, like I said, everybody, and as you know, and you guys know, everybody in prison is not a monster, and there's good men behind those walls. There's there's people that were young men that got in trouble but grew up and started to understand life. And um, there's this percentage of lifers, you know, OGs or whatever, that are never going home. Um, but they pour whatever is good in them into the guys that do have a shot at going back to their freedom that may listen. Yeah. Yeah, I was I was fortunate enough, you know, and I'm not telling anybody what to believe or push my stuff. I'm a I I believe in God, and I feel like I always had certain components around me in prison. I feel like I always had a whole head that was talking sense to me and reminding me who I was amongst the chaos. I felt like I had some good brothers around me that kept me safe in there, that to this day were just at my vowel renewal. You know, they were brothers, and um I began to shift because I was really active in the gang life, which is another part of it, right? I I wasn't active in the gang life prior to this. I was like literally, I was like an athlete, got in trouble, hothead, military, whatever, and go to prison. I join a gang some really out of boredom, not fear, and I end up rising above the ranks really fast. And I'm not supposed to be in that position. Like I'm not, I'm not really from the street. You'll never hear me in any of my interviews say I was like from the worst neighbor, none of that.

SPEAKER_00: 13:12

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 13:13

I remember feeling an absurd amount of pressure on me because I woke up one day and I'm like 30 and I'm running a prison yard on a level four prison, and now I realize I have a shot at going home. And I told one of these old timers one time, uh, we were having a conversation walking a yard. He he first came to me, he's like, Man, when are you gonna leave that stuff alone? He's like, You don't even look right moving with those guys anymore. And uh I said like a joke to him. I was like, Man, if somebody says I can leave, I'll leave. I said, But you know how it goes in prison. If you try to leave, they'll they'll take your life in here. And um maybe like two days later, the other guys that had rank or whatever, they came to me because I had started to work in a law library. I started getting some guys home. Um the institution, they knew I had influence on the yard, so they broke like they set up this weird deal where I could get the gang members jobs if I could keep us out of trouble and all these things. So the leadership came to me one day and they were like, yo, you don't have to live like this with us anymore. You can leave. And I was able to leave that way of life in prison. I didn't have to leave the prison. I stayed in general population. And to this day, you know, I got a lot of respect from a lot of those guys, and they allow me to actually walk a lot of those guys away from that way of life now. Um, because they trust me in that way.

SPEAKER_00: 14:44

Wow, that is like, you know, that's God's purpose coming through to you.

SPEAKER_02: 14:48

It's all God. Yeah, every every bit of it is is God. The Holy Spirit, it's I don't want to get to rent, but it's no, you can do that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:56

I mean, it's it's we try to, you know, the out of the blue tries to stay as as right, yeah, you know, as neutral as possible, but but we all have our we're entitled to have our power, a higher power, as we understand them. And if that's if that is God, Buddha, I don't care if it's a doorknob or good good orderly direction, especially, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02: 15:19

I just know he's real, man. And I've had moments.

SPEAKER_00: 15:23

I'm looking at the evidence of it right now, and you know, I can I can tell, I can feel it. It's like undeniable to me. Even the way you came into my life is completely I swear to I swear to God, I don't like doing that because he gets I don't want to fool around with that, but I swear to that higher power, the way you even came into this podcast today was completely something that was from God because it was I would call well, I would say for the show's sake, it was completely out of the blue. I had a gentleman lined up for today at this time. I mean, I've been looking forward to this guy. He also came to me out of the blue, and he's this fabulous musician with lots of he played with huge bands to get the platinum records, and he had a beautiful story to share. And I'm really looking forward to it. He he calls me on Thursday for the for the pre-podcast meeting, and we're talking. I'm saying, all right, so I'm ready for tomorrow. He goes, Tomorrow. Oh gosh, I don't know. I messed that up. So he had something going on. He had a bail on the thing he said, well, maybe we can do it in the morning. I can't do it in the morning or later, we couldn't do it in the later. So I said, Okay, we're gonna, and then I get the email from uh uh what's your name? Oh, of course.

SPEAKER_02: 16:42

She's amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 16:43

She comes she sent me the email saying, He's re Chris is ready for tomorrow if you want him. I said, Oh, that was like totally out of the blue perfection in my world. To me, that's that's the the earmarks of the higher power stamping on it, like just saying, This is it, you gotta do it. And the whole thing about how out of the blue is that's how it's always been. The idea of doing out of the blue came out of the blue, and every single guest has come out of the blue. That's unorganic. Yeah, it's so like mind-blowing, and that's as we progressed, it's getting more and more intense. Like the more, the more deep, the more powerful. It's incredible, though. Just so, but I don't want to chuck me. Well, I want to hear more about you.

SPEAKER_02: 17:31

No, keep having a conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 17:33

Yeah, it is a conversation, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:34

Keep having a conversation. I started having conversations online like this, and my platform reaches over 100 million people every month now.

SPEAKER_00: 17:43

That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02: 17:44

I'm always excited when people, you know, and I'm always ready to have these conversations for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 17:48

So this is that's a beautiful thing, right there. You know, that's something we share together. We share that. I mean, my son shares my daughter, who's also one of my co-hosts. We all share that feeling, and I think that's what the whole podcast idea is to get that raise awareness, spread the word. That's the way you should be. Because it's all about connection. If we connect to each other, and it's based on something uh like are you a higher power, out of the blue. I don't want to offend you if you don't if you're an agnostic or an atheist out there, you know what I mean. You're entitled to your belief. But you know what I mean by out of the blue. It's just I've always said to even to the people that were atheists, I say, you know, you may say when you look at the out of the blue thing, don't you have to agree that there's something benevolent in what happened to you? Like if you look at it behind the thing that happened, didn't it sort of direct you in something like good? Isn't that benevolent? So we f we get them to admit that, which is a wonderful thing, because I think it's one step closer to you know connecting. So go so you're a you're this wonderful person. I mean, seriously, you're right in line with what I believe to be I I guess like the perfect perfect way to look at life is to be open, receptive, have these conversations as much as you can. And as you do, you're gathering this momentum, which I feel is wonderful too. I mean, I think by doing this with you, you're gonna be giving us momentum as well. Because we have the momentum going through this happening uh that's out of my mind, I have no control over it. But this is this momentum that's happening that you're you also have. I mean, I've only been doing it for a year. How long have you been doing this?

SPEAKER_02: 19:28

Um, full time, like full-time content creation. I started in March of 24, like full time.

SPEAKER_00: 19:36

All right, you got a couple years. I mean, that's about it. So we're you know, we're we're kind of in in in stri it's striving together, it's the same kind of thing. And that momentum, I think, is a beautiful thing because it says something about what's happening with the humankind, I guess, you know. I mean, I'm I pray every day for the the world to get together and stuff because it's there's a lot of pain out there, you know. A lot of you said it, addiction and a lot of um there's a lot of loneliness. It's weird how the the internet is causing more people to be lonely, the isolating them, you know, the the neighborhoods are gone and and but if we use the internet correctly, I think it can be uh really really special, like this stuff here, like you're doing, and hopefully what out of the blue is doing. What would you um go ahead? You I want to hear more. Come on, give me some more journey.

SPEAKER_02: 20:29

So you just I I was so focused on what you were saying, I forgot where I was at. Um I'm sorry I will follow up with what you're saying, and that's fine. I'll comment. Um, I was one of those people that didn't believe, right? And that's why it's important to tell the stories.

SPEAKER_00: 20:45

Oh, wow, definitely.

SPEAKER_02: 20:46

And whether you you want somebody to believe in God or you just want people to have hope for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00: 20:52

Hope, you know, that's it, man.

SPEAKER_02: 20:54

Yeah, and then as far as the you know, just commenting on, you know, telling our stories and momentum, anytime I I get the opportunity, I just want to say thank you, you know, to everybody because man, the the things that we've been able to accomplish, you know, and me and I've only got a team of about three people total, and my wife, you know, who who's my boss, right? But um we touch millions every month. And it's just because we're transparent and true. It's it's literally because we take the time to listen and we don't try to crowd the conversations, but when we do speak, uh we speak with impact and we speak with an empathetic lens. Um, and the things that we've been able to do digitally for me have, you know, crossed in obviously into the work that I do out here. I just received a proclamation in the key to the city in South Fulton, um, which is the blackest city in the country for the outreach work that I do and published two books this year. You know, I work in the mental health field. I also opened a school and was honored as principal of the year and made the news. And the only reason I mention these things is just like the internet, I need people to know that literally you can do anything. And there are some people that are just talking, and I get that. And I'm speaking to the audience that knows me right now. There are plenty of people that just they speak about what they hope will be or what they think, and they they try to dress up like they're no, look for the people that are doing it, look for the fighters, look for the people that are doing the things that seem unachievable because we're out here, and that's the story that I bring every time I have a conversation. And the last piece is um I get to travel full-time as a motivational speaker, and I can't tell you all the places I've been in the last year or two. Um, but one thing is always true, and I and I speak in front of audiences of 40,000. You know, I speak in executive, you know, corporate executives, I speak to guys in jail, whatever it is. But it's always, as long as you bring your heart and you strip everything else away from it, you will, but not you won't be denied. You know, and that's what I I perfect to the best of my ability.

SPEAKER_00: 23:05

Wow, that I'm telling you, I'm just every word is a ringing bells for me. You know, I I've learned that um truth, when I hear truth, to me, I've been I've been a musician since I was seven. And I've done songs, and when I used a bell, like a boom in certain songs I've used a bell. Only only maybe two or three of out of 250 songs I've recorded and released. And when I put that bell in, it gave me chills. It's like the it's the bell you put when at the end of the song when it's all making sense, you know, and it's all beautiful, you're getting a catharsis of some kind, and you hear the bing, you hear this bell. And that's the bell I hear with truth. Because that bell just vibrates my whole body right down to my toes. And when I hear you talking, that's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that bell. And so I I just love that. I mean, this is one of the reasons I love this podcast, is because I get to hear that bell. I get to hear it from people I've never I would have never met you if I had not started this podcast.

SPEAKER_02: 24:08

Yeah, that's the beauty of social media. The connections.

SPEAKER_00: 24:12

Yeah, and and I I relate to this having the courage because you know, I never thought I would do something like this. I like I said, I was a musician and I was hide behind my bass and I would sing and hide behind the microphone and sing the song. But I was always about truth and my music. But I tell you one thing about being that way is that I found that. Don't you I'm wondering if you feel this way. Maybe you do because you put put away for 17 years. Sometimes when you have that heart like that, it's almost like there's a another force out there that wants to stop you.

SPEAKER_02: 24:45

You know, sometimes.

SPEAKER_00: 24:48

All right, thank you for saying that.

SPEAKER_02: 24:49

Yeah, I didn't want to say that it doesn't matter if you're on the bad side, you're still gonna have opposition.

SPEAKER_00: 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:55

But that's the beauty, you right?

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

Someone said to me today, um, well, if you're on the bad side, well, that guy doesn't mind. He takes care of you. But if once you're on the good side, he's after you.

SPEAKER_02: 25:07

I mean, if you I was on the bad side and I got good at it, and you and there's plenty of there's plenty of opposition. You deal with anxiety, stress, you deal with you may lose your life today. You know, there's different types of opposition, but I mean, no struggle, no progress. And and at the end of the day, do you want to live or just be alive? And for me, I I look for the fire because anything I've been able to gain in this life for me or my family has been when I went and I looked for the fire.

SPEAKER_00: 25:37

I love that. I love that. The fire. Beautiful, beautiful.

SPEAKER_02: 25:41

A lot of people don't want it, and and or a lot of people don't know how to process it or approach it, or a lot of people, and that's why you see certain people just in a specific space, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00: 25:54

Yeah, I don't know what to do about that. Do you?

SPEAKER_02: 25:58

For me, I I'm a certified peer specialist in mental health, and one of the things that I actively do is I work with people that need to overcome, you know, those obstacles that are preventing them from living a good life, you know, whatever those obstacles are. And um, I do it through a lived experience, that lens. I work with psychologists and therapists, but my voice is just as loud as theirs because we've shared the same experience. So I advocate for individuals. And um, I would say outside of that, you know, and you kind of you shared a little bit about you know an accident and what, but it's just making sure we've got spaces full of support with non-judgment, you know, um, because even where the support is at, I've I've been in some recovery spaces, and you can't come a certain way, you know. You you know, for me, come as you are, you know, and that's what I say. And the other thing, a shameless plug, but not a shameless plug, uh, the Life Vena Inc., my organization is active. We've got facilitators and caseworkers, and uh, we work with people nationally as well as globally right now. Wow, whether it comes to the re-entry or recovery space.

SPEAKER_00: 27:11

I'm gonna want to talk to you off the line sometime because that's one of the things I want to tell you more about the out of the blue universe that we want to have, which involves outreach and things of that nature. Um, you're doing it already. I've now you're giving me inspiration a lot, you know. I can see that you know, these aren't crazy dreams I have. Well, I don't know if they I don't know if they're my dreams. I mean, I feel like they were like the out of the blue, it just came to me. But I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful to have been like allowed or guided to do this, you know. So it's beautiful. And then they and I got to meet you. I mean, that isn't self-I mean, I could probably quit today and be all right, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 27:51

No, don't quit right now. I have no intention, no intention.

SPEAKER_01: 27:57

No intention of quitting. Yeah, I'll say, I'll say uh to your uh defense, Dad, you pushed through and overcame some intense stuff. So having this sort of come to you, it's not like this just happened, like it does feel like you you earned this by being so strong as a human and like listening to your higher power. It led you here, just like it led you, Chris, to where you're at. Like, you didn't just go into the system and let it take over you. You still like had your integrity to like listen to that that voice pulling you toward, I guess, the OGs that are like kind of guiding you this way, and then having the bravery to talk to the gang leaders and and be, you know, who you are. So it's like, you know, Dad, you talk about it being out of the blue, but it there is some there's some medal of honor that you carry that has brought you to this space.

SPEAKER_00: 28:59

Oh, thank you. So I'm very humbled by that.

SPEAKER_01: 29:02

And I mean, I will say, I mean, I know I've been quiet, it's been uh very enlightening to just listen to you two talk. Um, but to to the to the atheist comment, I know that was a while ago, but um I think there is a little there's a certain level of either privilege or safety that comes with that perspective. And and when you are going through something that makes you like put your feet to the fire and makes you face down the barrel, the mortality of being alive, you start to peel away these layers that like humble you and make you go, All right, who who what can I rely on if I can't rely on this stuff? And Dad, I've seen you have to let go of that kind of ego and it's no it is no surprise to me that these kind of things keep building on each other like Chris coming into your life at the exact moment, you know. This is this has been a well-earned position that both of you are in to have this conversation. And I feel immensely humbled just being able to sit here and and smile and laugh and and learn from you two.

SPEAKER_00: 30:17

So look, Chris, your son's gonna be talking to you someday, just like that.

SPEAKER_02: 30:23

That's what everybody's saying. Everybody's saying he's gonna he's gonna be that one. So there's a lot of people waiting on him. I'm grateful.

SPEAKER_00: 30:30

That's so wonderful.

SPEAKER_02: 30:31

That's inspiring, man. See you guys up here. I'll take, listen, I I love being up here with a father and son combination when I got a son on the way, man. I I take a good sign. Yeah, good signs or good energy, whatever it is, I love to see it because it's about to be my life, and I'm grateful, man.

SPEAKER_00: 30:47

Yep, it's something speaking to all of us today. It really is. We're all pretty humbled by being here. But it doesn't come without a you know, some like I always say, Yeah, this the struggle. But I always say that when I went through um some big changes through having getting gotten leukemia, that it put me in a position where I was gonna die. I mean, I was really close. So I my my life, I say, was torn down to the studs, and I had to rebuild it. And the only way I could rebuild it was on things that really mattered. I didn't want any, you know, I didn't want any crap in the foundation. Everything is my life is uh meaningful or it isn't there, you know. So that's it. Yours is the same kind of thing. You went through 17 years of it, it's a long drawn out way, but it's just as bad and maybe worse.

SPEAKER_01: 31:39

I mean, but you know, yeah, it's you can't really compare.

SPEAKER_00: 31:42

It's like you can't compare comparisons.

SPEAKER_02: 31:44

Uh I I would never want to be in a situation where I I'm in and out of the hospital right now. Let me tell you something. 17 years of prison, I had my health. And that walking in and out of this hospital watching my wife as we get ready for my son, it has really put things into a perspective that I might have needed this season. Um, so I I wouldn't even try to compare the two. No, you're right. You're right. What I went through was vicious, but man, just hearing the fact that you came back, I had a aunt that I lost to Luke, and I know. So, man, salute to you. And I just wanted to back up what your son said. Faith without works is dead, brother, and you've been doing the work, you know, to simplify it. So salute to you, man.

SPEAKER_00: 32:28

Thank you so much. I know you better start talking, or I will cry.

SPEAKER_02: 32:32

So I'm I I'm actually not crying. I typically cry when I tell my story. I'm doing great today, though.

SPEAKER_00: 32:39

Yeah, I know. It's just, you know, it's it is it is it is moving. But I want to know some more. I mean, you wrote this what's this book now? This is the book we just talked about 140, 144.

SPEAKER_02: 32:49

Yeah, I this book, uh 144, uh Prison Pain and the Pathway to Freedom. I essentially I started telling my story on TikTok. Uh I take pride in being a storyteller, and I'm actually getting ready to do a one-man show and all this amazing fun stuff that I never thought I'd be able to do. But I started telling my story about my journey of how I got sentenced to 144 years in prison and what I endured those 17 years. And it reached millions on TikTok. So um we did what you know, the I don't like the word followers, but what the people that support the content said do, and uh, we put it in book form and did it independent, didn't go look for a deal on purpose. Um, and I'm proud to say we're doing great. And that's another thing that I I really I hang my hat on when it comes to the people that I'm able to do outreach and mentor, um, you know, entrepreneurship and all these things. So, but the book is it's not just my journey, it speaks about what we face during incarceration with mental health, uh, the trauma that we endure, it discusses what prison actually is, um, and poses the question is it keeping communities safer? Um, and it it speaks to those that maybe had no understanding of what prison is in a way that if you read the book, you're gonna think I'm sitting there right there with you and we're having a conversation. And that's how I wrote it on purpose.

SPEAKER_00: 34:21

I have a feeling the book really brings it to human human is humanizes it so you can really feel it, what it's like to go through that. Can you just give me you have any little stories about it you want to share that would be like part of that?

SPEAKER_02: 34:37

Yeah, um, I mean, there's parts of the book where I speak about you know how fragile life is and how many of us don't have a concept of time or how the decisions that we make will impact our families. And um, you know, of course there's plenty of stories, the the the war stories and all that for people, but um what I'm thinking about specifically in the midst of this conversation is where I wrote about losing my grandmother, my father, and my little brother while I was incarcerated and the impact that they had on me mentally and that I carried with me, you know, into my freedom.

SPEAKER_00: 35:15

So how did how did that unfold? I'd like to hear that. You're in the jail one day, and someone comes to your cell and says, Hey, I got I gotta tell you this news.

SPEAKER_02: 35:23

That's it. You get you get a call to the chaplain's. In prison, you don't want to get called to the chaplain's office.

SPEAKER_00: 35:29

I bet. Yeah, that's not a good thing, right?

SPEAKER_02: 35:31

But if you're in there long enough, chances are, right? And uh that's it. You know, they call you, and and I will say, in all those circumstances and situations, it it wasn't cold the way they delivered the news. They tried to, you know, provide whatever comfort they could. But um when you're incarcerated, nine times out of ten, you're not able to attend the funerals, so there's not necessarily any closure and there's you know different things, but I go into it a little bit deeper because me and my father, we weren't on speaking terms when he when he had a heart attack. And uh I speak to young men nowadays because I do family intervention and all that. And um, you know, for me, I've gotten peace with that through the writing and being able to speak to to other fathers and sons and mend, you know, potentially you know, fragile situations or whatnot. Um, and as we're speaking about, I got a son getting ready to come into this world. So uh I fight really hard to take my trauma, learn from it, the hard lessons, and apply it, not just for my family, but hopefully in a way that people can read this book and you know break free of some some maybe you know some negative patterns that are in families, etc.

SPEAKER_00: 36:44

So negative patterns. That's that's an interesting phrase you just brought up. It's certainly a big part of recovery, for example. Um, you know, addiction recovery, you have to break negative patterns all the time, and you have to use contrary thinking in you know to do that. You have to sit time sometimes with the pain and not just think of using something to squash it. You know, you have to live through it and you find out maybe you're gonna learn something from it. Um it's very difficult when you're going through it, but it's necessary. Um you know, you made me think of what happened to me when I was I always funny because when I tell this story, I say when I was incarcerated, when I was in the hospital, I was in there for nine months straight, which was intense for the being in the hospital. And and I was in there I had just been on put on full life support. And um when they finally woke me up and I was gag gaga, I guess, Google. I mean, I I was on so many, they put you on so many drugs when you're when they put you on the machines, and and I'm waking up my mouth the tongue's thick, you know, and I I've had to think. And I'm laying there and I get and come in the emergency ward, and this nurse comes in, and now you got a chaplain. I gotta say they treat you better in prison than they do in the freaking hospital. Because I'm laying there in the hospital with a they care for you, and this nurse comes in and says, Oh yes, Vernon, your mother died. I went, What? You're lying. I don't believe you. I didn't believe her. I refused to believe it. I thought it was a lie until the next day they brought in an iPad and there's a video of the funeral of my mother with my family. And I was like, Are you what? And my family was devastated that they told me my brother was wanted wanted to tell me, but they did that. I couldn't believe that they did that. I was in no condition to hear that. But I gotta say, I relate it to your situation, it's the same thing, really. And when you I can't say I like to compare, I don't like to compare, I like to identify. So I'm not comparing, definitely two different things completely in many ways. But in the same ways, I'm and I have to say that's that's one win in the win column for for the chaplain, I'll say. At least I did it with care, you know, and and um somewhat empathy, a bit of empathy. You know what? I love my mom and I miss her, and I um I called her every day. And um she did visit me when I was in the hospital before they stopped all visits because um that was tough because it was about eight months of that nine months, and I couldn't have any visitors due to the pandemic. And I was in there right during the pandemic. But um my my passion was formed from that pain. You know, my my my uh my passion was formed out of that pain. And um and I still want to pay it forward because I do feel so grateful to have defeat cancer, to have come out at the other end in relatively one piece. And I'm looking at you and I feel like you're like you're you're just like me in that way, and that you're it's kind of like um doing something that if I was your age, I would be doing exactly what you're doing. Running around, making going around the country. I used to travel all the time with my music, but I'm you know I'm getting older now, and not sure about all that traveling, but I do I would like to if I if that opened up the door to me.

SPEAKER_02: 40:22

It's not I don't like the traveling part. I wish I could skip the airports and the planes. It's right.

SPEAKER_00: 40:27

That's the part I don't like. It's all real fast.

SPEAKER_02: 40:30

Yeah, I'm not flying first class or anything. I no, I know, I hear you. Yeah, but I'm grateful, I'm grateful to especially coming from 17 years of prison, over three years in solitary confinement, to now, you know, being able to just live life and and being able to get up every day, every single day, like literally for a living, or you know, how I pay the bills, or you know, I just help people every day.

SPEAKER_00: 40:55

And and what more can you ask for?

SPEAKER_02: 40:58

I don't know. That's why I just you're so blessed. I just try to help people every day, and you know, just you know, hopefully, I don't know, just stick around and with the family and live long so I can keep doing this.

SPEAKER_00: 41:13

But well, you're so blessed, and I think one of the things you're doing, you're a powerful example by showing the happiness that of the the blessing that's come upon you from following this passion to to make the world a better place, to help others to be of service. And that is something I think is invaluable as a message. That alone is a message. You didn't have to say a word in that your message, but that you can say a word, but you're so darn articulate and a very handsome man, I must add. You're a good looking guy, you're you're smart and very articulate. God has prepared you for this. That's what you are here to do, and is really I'll vote for you. You're you're my vote. You get my vote.

SPEAKER_02: 42:00

Somebody literally, it's funny. It's it's funny because people are are you know in our neck of the woods asking, like, what's the next step in terms of leadership? I've had people ask me about opening a church and maybe potentially stepping into the political arena, you know, and and doing all these different things, and it's just funny you make that statement because I I wonder. I don't know. I'm 42 now, so focus on my son now, and I don't know, I might need your vote in a few years because you got it.

SPEAKER_00: 42:32

You know, you're the same age as my dad when he died, honest to God. And that doesn't sound make sound weird, and maybe it's not I'm not meant to be a downer. Because I think that's that's just something very special. It speaks to me in a way that I know it's something that God's telling me. You know, I mean, I just know it. I don't know what it is, I'll figure it out as I let it sink in a bit. But yeah, I'm so happy to see you doing this with your son coming on the way, and oh, and you're you're blessed with this this direction in your life, your passion, and all these things are coming together for you. And yes, you know what? I hate to say this to anybody, but you would be a great, we'd need people like you in politics, it would be so good. But you know, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It's a really tough situation.

SPEAKER_02: 43:21

That's a tough. I've I've got buddies, uh, and I I got guys that actually did I got a guy that did 10 years in prison, he's city council, you know, and it's it's possible, but it's a whole nother weight, and I salute anybody that's in that arena for the right reasons right now. For the right reasons, you said that's all I can say right now. It's it's some weight over there, but I'm crazy enough. I think that's what the other part that drives me.

SPEAKER_00: 43:46

I I like that's part of the fire I look for, and not saying I'm gonna go there, but where there's work to be done, I try to go that direction because leadership is servitude, and I'm concerned with the people, you know, it's supposed to be servitude, and that's ideally what it is for sure. And you just you know, you are that you're the epitome of servitude. You've you've completely, you know, there's not a molecule in your body that isn't here to do something good to be of service, you know. And I can tell just yeah, so yeah, I mean, wow, what a th what a what a thrill it is to meet you, and I'm so glad. I mean, I feel like you know, this isn't the first we're gonna be, we're gonna be our lives will be intertwined in some way to keep conversations going. Yeah, I would hope so. I mean, it would it would be one wonderful if you would do that.

SPEAKER_02: 44:37

I mean, I just like to stay connected to good people. I I just you know, for me, anytime I connect with anybody on social media platforms, I always try to continue the conversation. I don't ever try to one and done. Sometimes it happens because life and you know, whatever, but I always try to establish the connection.

SPEAKER_00: 44:55

I love that. I love that because one and done, yeah, it happens. I know what you mean. Yeah, but but lately in this in this world with I'm doing this podcast, um, there's fewer one and duns, really. The most of them become part of my out of the blue family.

unknown: 45:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 45:12

You know, and you are that too. I mean, you are officially in the out of the blue family. Once you're on the show, you know that.

SPEAKER_02: 45:18

I need my hoodie. I need my out of the blue merch.

SPEAKER_00: 45:22

All right, we're gonna work that out.

SPEAKER_01: 45:25

But um get a get a uh you know, a size for you, and then we'll make a a a really infant-sized one.

SPEAKER_00: 45:31

A baby uh I do have a baby one to we can memorize.

SPEAKER_01: 45:35

You can you can make one that says, I just came out of the blue.

SPEAKER_02: 45:39

Out of the blue. He did literally, because we're both 42, and he came out the blue. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, it was a blessing. The doctor was like, This is a miracle.

SPEAKER_00: 45:48

It is a miracle, man.

SPEAKER_02: 45:50

Yeah, and and to what you said, we've been in the hospital now for 18 days. And I just want to that's when you said nine months, 18 days has been very hard. 18 days in the hospital, 17 years in prison was, but it's just I get and we've got good people around us, nurses are amazing, doctors, you know, but just to be in that environment, just to hear the sounds, just to, you know, and I was and not to take but just thinking about how they delivered the news, and I just wanted to say out loud they were wrong for that. You know, as somebody works in trauma-informed care, they should have they should have expressed that differently, man. But I'm glad that you were able to, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 46:30

I was able, I got through it, you know, and um I forgive them. I don't have a reserve.

SPEAKER_01: 46:34

Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. There's I think that's a it's a statement to like both of these systems, the prison system and the healthcare system, are two glaring problems in this country.

SPEAKER_02: 46:46

Man, I I look at, you know, we're we're in a hospital, we're older parents, right? But we had a choice. Like she could have came home, but I was like, you know, they gave us the option to stay, and I was like, well, we're gonna stay. And they're like, well, you know, we're able to, right? We're not we're not rich, but we were able to make that decision. I think about all the moms and dads that and you know, everybody that can't get the care that they need. And I don't want to go off on a tangent, but people that have to make the decision between health care and eating a dinner, you know, like right, it's yeah, we could do a whole nother six-part episode series on that. Don't get me started.

SPEAKER_00: 47:24

Well, we got we this conversation will continue. I know that for a fact now. I mean, we got a lot more to talk about.

SPEAKER_01: 47:30

Yeah, even in comments, you know, people if people want to comment, you know, yeah, add to the conversation because I know like you're building a community, we're trying to build a community. First of all, thank you for also introducing us to your community. Sure. And you know, we're we'll try to do the same with ours. I think ours is probably a bit smaller, but that's okay. We're working on it.

SPEAKER_02: 47:52

I remember I started, I used to get like 10 10 views. I remember I showed my wife I made$12 this month, like, and she always supported me. She keep going. Yeah, you just gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_00: 48:04

But that very same conversation with my wife.

SPEAKER_02: 48:07

Yeah, well, hey, and that's what it was. I mean, uh for me, any any dream, whether social media don't let go of that dream, work on it every day until you know you get the results. And I posted one day and it did 6.7 million views, and all those posts before that had 10 views now have thousands and some millions, and so everything you're putting out there is is digital real estate, and you're planting seeds, as they say.

SPEAKER_00: 48:33

So, man, so it is a whole new world, isn't it? It's just a whole new world.

SPEAKER_02: 48:38

Better it's a world to be in because with the things that are changing and the landscape with artificial intelligence and the internet. I told people this because I'm really passionate about business development, brand development, helping people tell us all this stuff, right? And um artificial intelligence is one of those spaces where if we as content creators, podcasters, stories, if we don't start learning about that, just take five minutes a day, we're gonna get left behind, just like some people got left behind when the internet came.

SPEAKER_00: 49:11

I agree. I've been I have been doing my homework with AI, I definitely have.

SPEAKER_02: 49:15

Yeah, and my son, I just want to say this we're in this is the first year of gin beta. So this is the first generation beta, first generation of people that will know a life only with artificial intelligence, they don't know a life without so we're we're seeing some shifts, you know. So yeah, whoa, I just gotta chill. That's a different way to live. That's episode three. I'll be back for that one.

SPEAKER_00: 49:41

I promise you, I promise you, I can't wait to see you again, really. So I'm thinking we gotta get global. This whole thing has to go global.

SPEAKER_01: 49:49

Yeah, get global.

SPEAKER_00: 49:50

This movement, whatever this you want to call it, you know, it's um your movement. We're all in the same movement. It has something to do with resilience, it has something to do with spirituality, has something to do bringing people together.

SPEAKER_02: 50:02

Yeah, there's only two sides right now. There's only two sides. It's either hate or love. You know, you can't really you can't really love if you still got hate in your system, but you know, it's all the good guys out there and the good people, whatever you're doing, whatever your passion, art, crap, what you can be the guy that changes tires out of love. You understand me? Just nice to people in the morning. I don't care who you are. Thank you for being on the good side.

SPEAKER_00: 50:28

That's absolutely right. So true. And that's a perfect place to say what say one more thing for what would you leave our audience with after the end of this episode that just summarizes uh something you can say about what we talked about, what you're feeling. Just what would you say? The final statement.

SPEAKER_02: 50:44

My favorite quote is I'm not as scared, or I'm not afraid of the darkness because that's where I found the light. Um, what I found, yeah, what I found in life, what I learned, and and I scream out into the world is when you can figure out how to take a lesson from that pain that you've experienced and give it back to the world in a way that which they will heal. Well, there's just one person, man, you're taking back your power. You know? And for anybody that's ever looked at themselves in the mirror and said, Wow, I didn't know I could make it through this, the reason that you did is because you endured every single other dark moment in your life, including the one that you're going through right now. And you've been developed and you're strengthened. And when you understand that, your walk is different. It doesn't mean that you're not gonna get hit, it means that you're no longer afraid of the hits. So that's what I want to say to anybody. It doesn't matter if you're the black kid from south side of Chicago, the the white guy from Nebraska, the lady from whoever you are, because it's 2025, you're going through something. It's okay. That's where the strength is. That's what I want to say.

SPEAKER_00: 51:55

What a way to to start to end this beautiful episode. Darkness is where you find the light. If not for darkness, you will not find the light. If you're not for pain, you will not find the purpose. It's all good. Thank you for joining us today. That's my son Vernon. This is the immensely incredible Christopher Life Willis. And his sun's coming. The sun is kind rising. So Life Unity Inc. But if you want to, we'll put all this information at the end of the podcast so you can donate, you can buy some merch, and you can help spread the word and keep it going, because we need to do that everywhere, everyone, all the time. Thank you so much, Chris, for joining us on Out of the Blue. And I can't wait to see you again. I know we're going to be seeing you multiple times. Keep this conversation going.

SPEAKER_02: 52:44

For sure. Thank you guys, and thank you, everyone, for listening to our conversation today.

SPEAKER_00: 52:49

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02: 52:50

Appreciate you, man. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 53:00

Out of the Blue the Podcast. Hosted by me, Vernon West. Co-hosted by Vernon West the Third, edited by Joe Gallo. Music and logo by Vernon West the Third. Have an out of the blue story of your own you'd like to share? Reach us at info at out of the blue-thepodcast.org. Subscribe to Out of the Blue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And on our website, out of the bluepodcast.org. You can also check us out on Patreon for exclusive content.