Music That Made Us Feel Alright: Remembering Dave Mason with Steve Thoma

Dave Mason’s songs didn’t just chart, they attached themselves to people’s lives. Musician and longtime collaborator Steve Thoma returns to the podcast for a heartfelt, sometimes hilarious, always honest remembrance of a classic icon whose fingerprints stretch from English rock band Traffic to generations of radio staples.

Steve takes us into the real world behind the legend: stories of the walk from the stage to the tour bus where fans would share their admiration, and Dave’s surprisingly human struggle to answer that kind of love. We also get deep into the craft of music, from four piece bands and playing with dynamics and taste, to how a pair of New York City shows turned into “The 40,000 Headmen Tour: Live” album with zero studio polish.

Then we discuss the music business. We talk independent labels, classic rock radio, and the kind of record deal that felt rare at the time until a major label changed the math. The result is a portrait of an artist full of charm, contradictions, and commitment. Steve Thoma misses playing with Dave more than anyone else.

Transcript

Welcome And Dave Mason Tribute

SPEAKER_02 0:00

And if you maybe make it leave menu, if many of the menu is mentioning, welcome to the weird and wonderful world of out of the blue. I'm your host, Vernon West, and as always, I'm joined by my son and co-host Vernon West III, the creative force behind our logo, our theme song, and so much of the heart of the soul and the show. Today is a very special episode. We are honored to welcome back our friend, the extraordinary musician and storyteller Steve Toller, for a heartfelt tribute to the late great Dave Mason, a true rock and roll legend. Dave Mason was one of those rare artists whose music didn't just pass through the world, it became part of the atmosphere. Born in Worcester, England, he helped form the legendary band Traffic with Steve Winwood, Jim Capaldi, and Chris Wood, and went on to write songs that became part of the soundtrack of Generations, including the immortal Feeling Alright, and the beloved classic We Just Disagree. His fingerprints are on some of the greatest music ever made, from Traffic to his solo career, from The Rolling Stones to George Harrison, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Fleetwood Mack, and beyond. He was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with Traffic in 2004, and his life's work remains woven into the fabric of rock history. But today we're not just here to read the resume of a legend. We're here for something more personal. Because Steve Tolmer knew Dave Mason not only as an icon, but as a man, a musician, a band leader, a collaborator, and a human being. Steve will regale us with fond, fascinating, funny, and moving memories for his time working with Dave. The kind of stories you don't find in a biography, the kind that live in green rooms on tour buses, backstage hallways, rehearsals, hotel lobbies, and the sacred spaces between musicians listening to each other. Dave Mason left us on April 19, 2026, at the age of 79, after a lifetime of giving the world songs that still breathe. And today, with Steve's help, we get to celebrate not only the music Dave made, but the spirit he carried. So open your hearts, turn up your inner speakers, and join us as we remember a man whose music helped so many of us feel all right. Welcome, Steve, back to Out of the Blue, the broadcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Thank you, Vernon. What a beautiful uh tribute to Dave you just played. Um you mentioned all these different experiences, you know, backstage and this and down on the bus and the men's rooms. There were a few ladies' rooms in there too, but we're probably not going to talk about that today.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I'm so glad you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yeah.

Fans’ Memories And Dave’s Shyness

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Crazy stuff happens in rock bands. Uh so I want to talk about Dave's lovability because one of one of my most vivid memories was being on tour with Dave, and we would we were playing like theaters, like 12, you know, like a thousand to 1200 seat theaters, and we were playing big clubs, like these big dance clubs that were in these old like Midwest and East Coast. They were probably dance halls originally, where they'd have big bands, and then they'd turn them into concert rooms, you know. So there was maybe you could get six or eight hundred people in there all standing on the dance floor, you know, that kind of thing. But I had this experience with Dave many times because we'd finish the gig, we'd go to the dressing room, we'd dry off, and then we'd head to the bus. And there was inevitably always people that were going to intercept us on our way to the bus. And I gotta tell you, every person that we encountered, and I was always, you know, walking with Dave, and um, every one of them we encountered, they were it was always a couple, and the couple were our age or older, and they always had a memory to say, like, this is what I heard a thousand times. Dave, this little lady and I were at your show at Madison Square Garden in 1971, and I proposed to her that night, and we're still together, and it's you know, and they would mention one of the songs that they loved of his, that they were so glad he did it that night. And and here's Dave's reaction. I said, Dave, these people are pouring their they're they're revealing their soul to you. They're so enamored and they're so buoyed by the spirit of your music and the message of your music, and and you go into freeze mode when these people lay this beautiful stuff on you. I go, what's up with that? He goes, I don't know how to respond. I said, How about thank you? I'm really glad you dug it. Do you feel that way about when you hear that? And he goes, Well, yeah, but I go, Well, let him have it, baby.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

No, did did you have it what with 1972? He was he was in traffic at that time, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

No, he was he had left traffic by then. He was well on his solo career by then.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Okay, okay. I saw traffic in 72.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

The tr trip. Well, it may he may well, he may have still been, I don't think he was still in it by then. But anyway, the date isn't it's inconsequential. The point is these people were bringing up memories. This was in the in the late 90s or mid and late 90s when I toured with him. When I was in it, we were in Fleetwood Mac together in '94, '95, and '96. And and not long after I joined Fleetwood Mac, which was May of '94, uh, Dave and I just hit it off. And uh and he goes, Hey, uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna start doing tour, you know, dates, tour dates in between Fleetwood Mac tours. I'm like, okay. And he goes, Will you do it? I'm like, yeah, cool. So in between Fleetwood Mac tours, I'm going on the road with Dave. So this is stuff from the 90s. People were bringing up memories from 25 and 30 years ago to coming up to Dave and sharing that stuff with him. So, and and it was always the same thing. Everybody would thank him for the show, you know, that they saw 25 years ago and tell them about their memory of that and how they're really grateful he did a particular song again, or they would mention several songs. Dave was very conscientious about playing the songs that the audience wanted to hear. A lot of artists, when they get that far down the road, they they get bored with those songs, they don't appreciate the impact and the need of their audience to hear that stuff again. So, anyway, so that's Dave's lovability. Now, this is the flip side of Dave.

Lone Wolf Roots And Traffic Tension

SPEAKER_00 6:52

You know, we are all beautifully flawed, we're all imperfect, and and just Dave had a knack for just being uh a lone wolf, and it's one of the reasons why he left traffic. There was also some friction between he and Steve Winwood, another immensely talented guy. Um, and they just they had very different ideas of what they wanted traffic to be. And Dave was way too but Dave was naturally a very poppy songwriter. I mean, his his songs had depth and meaning, but he was able to do it and still be like poppy. So, which I think is a great gift. I mean, everybody's looking to write that song that just sticks in your craw and has you singing along when you're alone in your car. You just love the song and you're singing that, you know, because it's a great song.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Feeling all right is by far one of my favorite songs of all time.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Never tired of playing that. Never tired of playing it.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

What a beautiful song that is. It's it's just so much fun. It's very simple and down.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah, both all two chords. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yep, all two chords.

Rehearsals That Turn Unplugged Into Rock

SPEAKER_00 8:00

So we so we're on the road. Oh, so at one point during the the heyday of our Fleetwood Mac run together, uh, Dave goes, listen, I'm gonna I'm gonna call um Capaldi had just done a tour with Steve Winwood. They did like traffic. They named it was a traffic actual tour. It wasn't a Steve Winwood tour. And so, and it kind of it certainly revitalized interest in traffic. And Dave was certainly part of their successful run as a band, even though he left after a couple of albums. Um, so he goes, I think Capaldi and I are gonna do a tour. Would you do the tour with us? It's gonna be like traffic light. And I go, or he goes, we're gonna do it like a traffic tour. And I go, Well, without Steve Winwood, I love you and Jim, but you know, it's gonna be traffic light in my book. And he goes, Oh, you come on, you play circles around him. Like, boy, are you buttering me up.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Is that pun intended?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

With yeah, right. Traffic light anyway, we went. He goes, Well, we're gonna do an unplugged version. I'm like, really? Okay, but Cavaldi's a drummer, and he goes, Well, he plays a little guitar too. I'm like, okay. So anyway, Dave was living up in Ohio at the time. He had this he had this house and he was he was renting it temporarily, and this house belonged to a drug dealer, some big-time drug dealer that got like thrown in federal prison, and they were gonna be tearing all the houses down in this area because it's a flood control plane that feeds into this reservoir up there called Lake Casitas. So I knew the area because of the my boating history. Uh, and I go, Oh, you live in a Casitas? He goes, Well, not really on it, but you you know, we have a view of the lake from the house. So anyway, I go to his house and he goes, just you know, plan on spending you know three or four days here. He goes, I got a beautiful guest room and uh one for you, one for Capaldi. And uh just we'll just rehearse and you know, we'll we'll probably only need to rehearse three or four days, and then you know, we'll be ready to go on the road. Like, okay. So anyway, Dave's house is on this hill. The bottom floor is like a basement, it's built into the side of this hill, and the bottom floor is on the basement ground level, and it's got a beautiful saltillo tile floor, and it's big wood beams and a high ceiling, and it's like it's perfect, it's a great sounding room. And there's a drum set in there. So we do like two or three songs. He's playing acoustic guitar and singing it, and we do a little arrangement, and I put some strings and stuff on it, and and they're very happy with that. Then Jim goes and sits down at the drums, and the bass player now has shown up, and um we start doing this jam, and of course, I start playing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Oh yeah, baby.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Feeling all right, not much better than I just feel too good myself. Right. So we start playing that, we start jamming on it, and we and we play it, you play it for like 10 minutes, you know. Everybody's solos and yeah, yeah. Anyway, what happened?

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Extending song, you extend that.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Right. I said, listen, guys, fuck that acoustic shit. I go, let's do a little acoustic set in the middle of it. Set this is a rock band, right? I mean, listen to Capaldi. Are you kidding me? We gotta play, we got this, we need this guy to play drums. So it went from unplugged, because that was like the very, very cool at the time, the new unplugged thing they were doing on MTV. So I go, we can do a little unplugged set in the middle of the show, which is what we wound up doing. And it was a rock and band, it was just a four-piece band, great bass player named Alex Drizos, really nice guy, super pro, friendly, just the guy if you want to be on the bus with, you know. And Jim was great. Jim had a great sense of humor, and um, he embraced what we were doing right away and was a great collaborator. And and he uh we talked a lot about British comedians, like you know, uh Monty Python, of course, and uh Faulty Towers.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Oh my god, I love Faulty Towers, all this great stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

So we were always having a great time. But anyway, so we rehearsed them, and now we're a little four-piece rock band, and it was totally fun because everybody you know had to like fill up that room. There's only four pieces.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Four pieces are quite perfect, actually.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

So that's like a different technique. So and it was and everybody caught on like right away, and it sounded awesome. And and and I had my hands full because I'm playing string parts, I'm playing flute parts, I'm playing piano parts, I'm playing B3 parts, and and it's just four of us. So, anyway, uh we get into the tour, and uh we're about we're on our way to New York City to do two shows back to back, and I think it was at either at the Beacon Theater or the Ritz, and maybe it was the Beacon Theater.

The Two Night Recording That Became A Live Album

SPEAKER_00 12:45

And Capaldi and I were arguing about the set list. Like we had this conflict over what song should be next, you know. Like it was like three or four or five songs into the set. I go, no, we should we should build it a little bit, you know. Don't do that tune right away. I forget, I don't remember what the argument was about, but it was about the set list. I go, well, listen, let's record those two nights at the beacon that we're about to do, and we'll do your set list one night and we'll do my set list the other night. He goes, Okay, great. So the manager, I mean, our road manager was actually uh Jim Capaldi's uh personal manager, a guy, great night guy named John Taylor. So he was on the road with us, he was the road manager, and he was also the house mixer. Okay, so uh, and a very good mixer, very competent, and great ears.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

You know, that's such a familiar format. I think I did that for at least 10 years. Yeah, the road manager was the house mixer, and you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

So it's a very it's what we call a very lean crew, exactly, very contained. It it was just fine, and everybody knew everybody, and everybody listened to everybody. And so John had he was very excited because he had just bought a new Sony Datman. Oh, yeah, yeah, which was like a Walkman, but it was a dat recorder, digital audio, very, very clear, yeah. Yeah, so he decides he what he does is he plugs two microphones, house microphone, audience microphones into the board, and he takes and does a sub-mix off the board into the dat recorder, just off of soundcheck. He did a we did a sound check, he did a mix uh wearing headphones, and we recorded. And that recording became a live album that got released, and it's called the 40,000 Headmen Tour.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

And that was your set list. Was that your set list or his?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

I don't even remember who won the argument because all of a sudden we got this live record, we're like, man, this sounds really good. And we Dave's manager or uh Jim's manager got a record deal, and it originally was only released in Europe, and then somebody made a deal to release it in England and then released it worldwide. And I got I think I got paid fifteen hundred dollars for that record, which is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

It still got out, you know. It's in someone's collection somewhere, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

It's a beautiful out there. So anyway, but it's a great album, and it's a great snapshot of exactly where Dave was, exactly where Jim was. Like I said, we did a little unplug thing in the middle of it. It was awesome, and and the shows that we did both nights at the beacon were just great. And the only thing that's not actually live is that whatever the whatever the order of the songs is on that record, that's the only thing that was altered from what we played. There's nothing remixed, there's no fixes, there's no punch-ins, there's no replacements. It is 100% live to that two-track dat machine.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

That's the master.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

So it's it's an incredible documentation of four really solid musicians playing really, really, really well. So as a matter of fact, if if you were gonna ask me what's the one recording that you would want people to hear, that's the one. And what it was called the 40,000 Headmen Tour album. Yeah, that well, yeah, 40,000 Headmen.

Conversation, Chicago, Cigars, And Side Hustles

SPEAKER_00 16:15

So the other thing I want to talk about is uh Dave's uh Dave was one of the best conversationalists I've ever been around. He was very well read. You know, he he was raised in England, Worcester, which is my family's from Worcester, Massachusetts.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

I thought of that when I was reading his bio.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Right. So um, but he was also very Americanized. Like for several years he lived in Chicago, which is like to me, Chicago is the greatest city in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

It is very American.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

I'd live there. So Dave lived in Chicago, so he's kind of got that kind of Chicago, just open-hearted, you know. He's a he was a very uh dichotomous kind of person. He had a lot of different facets to him that were very interesting. He also for a while lived in Florida and he also lived in the Caribbean. So he partied Mon wherever he went. Like we knew when we were in Chicago, Dave's friends were gonna be showing up and they were gonna be holding. Uh, when we went to Florida, Dave's friends were gonna be there and they were gonna be holding. I mean, wherever we went, Dave had friends. And uh, but I've I I'm diverted by that. What I mean is he was a great guy to sit down, have a cigar. As a matter of fact, when Mick Fleet would call me to join Fleet with Mick, he goes, Oh, you're gonna love it. We're all sober, and you know, it's just gonna be great. And I go to the first rehearsal, and Dave's rolling a joint that's like the size of a baseball bat. And uh, and I'm thinking, this is a little different version of sobriety than the one I'm used to, but whatever, you know. And Dave goes, Yeah, I really don't smoke pot. He's rolling looking at me smoking. And I go, Well, anybody that rolls that good of a fatty, you should be smoking that shit, Dave. Well, he goes, Oh, I have gonna, but I I don't really do it very often.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

But you know, bad stuff, the pot wasn't as devastating as the stuff now.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Mick may have told him I was sober, so maybe he was trying to like you know make sure that I didn't he didn't freak me out with all that, which fortunately in my life and and attitude, I'm I can be around it. It's not a temptation. Uh it doesn't, you know, it doesn't bother me, it bother me if somebody else is doing it. It's not I'm not tempted by it. So and that's I feel very blessed to have that uh reality in my life. I mean, I'm sitting eight feet from a I bought this antique bar furniture piece of furniture 30 years ago, and it's full of booze. I don't even know what's in there. It's mostly I think from my mother-in-law and my ex-father-in-law. Anyway, I can be around it, but Dave's a real rock and church. Like we would we both love cigars. At one point, somebody was making a Dave Mason blend. Dave was always doing these little side deals: wine, Dave Mason wine, Dave Mason cigars, Dave Mason guitars. He always had a side hustle going. And it's just because Dave was this outgoing personality when he met the right people. He was so himself and so comfortable. And he just wound up making that having all these affiliations with people. He was just that kind of guy. I know there's I've seen a ton of stuff online since he passed away. And um, all these people that I never have met, and I worked with Dave very closely for a few years, but I know how Dave was. He just made friends wherever he went. He was like the Pied Piper. And uh he was when we were working together and playing together, he uh he was dating Lee Taylor Young, who's a great actress.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

I remember that name, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, she was on Peyton Play, she was in the movie uh Soilent Green, and she's just the coolest chick I've ever been around, just one of the greats. So Dave was this wonderful outgoing guy who made friends wherever he went. Um, and he's he and he shared and all of that. Like he always made sure everybody was introduced properly. That's something that doesn't happen a lot in rock bands. People don't have their, it's like they don't they lose etiquette, like they're so they're so uh they're always in a crowd where they're there's adulation for them, you know what I mean? So the balance of of etiquette and protocol kind of goes out the window. But Dave was always very, very much concerned that everybody knew each other and that they had been properly introduced, and that you know, oh, this is my friend Steve, you should know this about him. You know, he was always just that way.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

And uh beautiful, what a beautiful, what a beautiful man, man.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

That's just really yeah, it's just this is an awesome guy. So uh and his music was the thing about him musically was that I was always impressed by every night he was there 100%. He was never you know, never phoning it in. He was always always in touch with the music and the song and the story he was telling. It was never faked.

The Night Dave Didn’t Show

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Um now with that being said, there were times where Dave was notorious for not showing up. And I wonder why that could be.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

He didn't vote it in, but he just didn't come sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, he if he wasn't gonna be there a hundred percent, he wasn't there at all. So you gotta respect that.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Yeah, put that in the wind call though. So what happened where was he?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

He was busy.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah. He had made friends with somebody new. But one night Capaldi was so pissed off, and he goes, Fuck him, we don't need him to perform. Toma, you and I are gonna go out there and we're just gonna wing it. So it's me and me and uh Jim, and he we he he's just calling tunes, and and we're and I'm you know I have a pretty big catalog in my head. So we did about uh we did about 20 minutes of totally impromptu, completely uh what do you call spontaneous, and then we did the middle section of the set, which was the acoustic part. The song some Jim sang two or three of those songs. We did those songs, and finally fucking Dave shows up. And guess what happened when he walked out on stage? Standing ovation.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

He didn't even play.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

It was almost like it was planned.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

He just walked out on stage and everybody went apeshit. Oh, and I forgot to mention we started like an hour late. The show was supposed to be like a nine o'clock show. So they thought you were a welcome band.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

It was the opening. They looked at it like you were opening up for him, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Exactly. So, anyway, uh so you know Dave was full of irony and dichotomies. Um but like I said, the reason that I dug playing with him so much is because uh he was just committed every night to it. He was committed to it, and he because of that, everybody else was committed, especially that little four-piece band, which sounded like gangbusters. And and what's great about a four-piece band is you can really play with real dynamics, and it's noticeable. And there's an old joke in the music business hey, um, can you guys play with more dynamics? And the guitar player always says, I'm playing as loud as I can. So, which is not the point, but uh anyway, that was a very dynamic little orchestra that we had, the four of us.

Band Leadership And Real Dynamics

SPEAKER_00 24:05

And Dave was uh was the leader of that. You know, he was not uh like Glenn Fry was a great band leader, and he was very specific in his directions to the band. Dave, I don't think Dave ever gave me a direction or gave me a different idea of what to play or what I should think about. He just gave everybody autonomy, and I think and Glenn and I and Dave, I think we're on the same page. It's like what's most important in a band is how it is cast. There may be a guy that's a better bass player, but he's not a better bass player for this band.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

So, and there's a lot of subtleties in that, and part of it is a lot of people, a lot of musicians who are who have mastery of their instrument, let's say, but they don't understand punctuation and accents and phrasing or whatever like that. Yeah, and phrasing is not a natural thing for some people. I had I played with a drummer who's my lifelong best friend, but it's it's taken him 40 years to understand what a musical phrase is. Now that he gets it, it's it's a beautiful thing, right? Anyway, that was like the difference between Glenn. Glenn was very specific about what he wanted, he wasn't afraid to tell you, and he was very pinpoint on it. Dave never did that, at least not with me. And I don't remember him ever giving Jim any direction or giving Alex any direction. We just knew what to do, and it was because of Dave's thing was so solid and obvious, he made it very obvious, and we also understood that what you don't play is sometimes even more important than what you do play.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

So Dave was a master at that. He was a true artist in that way, even though we played the same pretty much the same set every night, every night there was spontaneity going on, and every night we were excited to play it. I never I never called my wife from Rome and said, Oh, I'm tired of playing these songs. I was tired of being on the road away from my life here in Los Angeles. I I grew tired of that. Um and I also, you know, I wanted to make new music too. And when you're in a band that's on the road, especially a band that that was successful in the 70s and or 80s, or even the 90s, most radio isn't gonna play your new stuff. There's only a very limited number of artists that are gonna play their new stuff, and um it's just uh it's a very weird um weird uh to be in that genre, which takes me to another story that I want to tell about Dave.

Fleetwood Mac Breakup And A New Label Idea

SPEAKER_00 26:54

So Dave uh Fleetwood Mac breaks up because the version that that we had put together for that couple of years was was uh working steadily, but Warner Brothers was very concerned about Fleetwood Mac's future, and they still owed them an album. So they came to Mick and basically said, if you don't get Lindsay and Stevie back in the band, we're we're not gonna pay you to do this last album that you owe us. And that was the last thing that Mick needed because Mick was rebuilding his fortune. Um so that was like the end of that lineup, and then and then Dave, I went on the road with Dave. And along the way, my old friend Charlie Springer pops up in my life, and Charlie and I have a lot of mutual friends, and we never knew each other through Warner Brothers, because I I only I think I worked with one artist that wound up on a Warner Brothers subsidiary, which was you guys remember an artist named Julie Brown? She had a hit called Um The Homecoming Queen Has a Gun.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

I remember Julie Brown.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

I do so Julie Brown had a it was a big video hit, one of the one of the first things.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yeah, one of the early MTV.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yeah. So I produced that was the first record I produced.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Oh, you produced that?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Well you gave me a few years.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

I'm playing piano, I'm playing keyboards on it.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Well done.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Thank you. So uh anyway, so I didn't have any dealings directly with Warner Brothers, but um he we he and I met, we just kind of hit it off, and he had left Warner Brothers along with some other guys to start a new label, and that label was called Sovereign Artists, and Sovereign Artists was an LA-based independent record label, and it was started by a guy named Tommy Thunderburke, and Tommy was a an amazing uh singer, uh a studio singer here in LA, a rock singer, uh like he did all the backgrounds on uh uh Twisted Sister. He had that kind of voice.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Several guys that Charlie knew that had been where they'd all done business together in their various positions, they started this label, and the reason they started it is because bands like Dave Mason, bands like Hart, uh these bands couldn't get a record deal because the the rec the radio stations that were playing those bands, this is before satellite radio took a hold and streaming. Uh, the the stations that were playing uh classic rock weren't gonna play Hart's new record. They weren't gonna play Dave Mason's new record. Their their playlist would not allow that. Their their station program directors wouldn't allow it. So they just want to hear the hits. The people on the radio want to hear the hits. So sovereign artists decided to try this concept of signing the artists that were no longer at a record deal or were no longer getting airplay, and they felt like they were gonna be able to get their stuff heard by it by an appreciative audience. So um what came about was in my conversations with Charlie, he's like, Hey man, aren't you haven't you been working with Dave Mason? And I go, Yeah, as a matter of fact, I'm writing songs with him, you know, we're just trying to put some kind of a deal together, and he's got some interest. So I've been going to his place. The time he was living down in Newport Beach, I'd go down a Newport camp out for two or three days and uh write songs, and he had a studio set up at his house and we'd do demos. And same thing happened up in OHI a couple times when he moved up there. I go, we don't really have an album put together yet, but Dave's got a bunch of tunes, and I've been writing with them. And he goes, Well, he goes, I know that you, you know, you have a lot of experience doing different stuff. He goes, Would you consider managing Dave? Like, well, why would you ask me if I want to manage Dave? And he goes, Well, I think we'd like to sign Dave. And you know, we have this new label we're starting. We just signed uh Don Grusen, who is a jazz guy and who does also a lot of scoring. And we just signed Hart. I'm like, oh, cool. So he goes, I my idea is to put uh put Dave uh and Hart on the road together with new albums out. And he goes, We got a we got a money guy. The guy that's backing this up has made a ton of money in the dot-com boom. And evidently he helped a lot of people pull out of the market when the dot-com bust happened in in 2000, and those people are forever grateful, and they're spending a lot of money with him re uh reevaluating their portfolios and reinvesting. And this guy's got an unlimited investor uh group that's that wants to be in the music business because the music business is kind of sexy. Sounds good. Sounds like actually a really good plan. Like I these little independent labels were carving out niches, like none such records. And um one of the labels that signed uh Alison Krauss, it was just a little independent label, made her like a major star. So there was there was room now for these.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Subpop was one of them out there.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Right, subpop, yeah, exactly. Some there were some meta labels that were squeaking out bands and making them happen. And then, of course, after a couple albums, the majors are signing all these guys.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

So they had a really good, I thought they had a really good business model, and I really dug it. And he goes, So why don't you talk to Dave and um and we should put a deal together? So I talked to Dave, and I go, I go, this is kind of a ass backwards way, but these friends of mine are starting this new label. They just signed Don Grussen, they already finished his album, and they're doing and they did a live album release party at the Mayfair Theater in Santa Monica, which was a very cool venue. A lot of press. As far as the jazz album goes, he got a lot of press, he had a hit jazz album.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

That's a tough album. And I said they just signed Hart. That in itself is a pretty big achievement. Hit jazz album. I mean, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

So they wanted to have this very diverse label, kind of like AM Records when they first started out. They wanted diverse artists, you know. So anyway, um, I go, they're so they just signed Hart. That's a done deal. Uh, and they're they're asking me if I'd be interested in managing you because you haven't had a manager for a very long time. I know you've been man kind of trying to manage yourself and you've done a great job, but you know, I want you to be able to focus on what you do and not have to worry about what I can be doing. So I've always wanted to be a producer manager, and this is a great opportunity for me, and I think it's a great opportunity for you. And what do you think? He goes, I like that idea. Let me think about it. So he thinks about it. A couple days later, he calls me and goes, I like this, let's go with this. Please did it through through a circuitous path here. I wound up having an opportunity to put Dave, uh, not only gonna have him on the road with Hart, but when that tour is over with, I got it set up for him to go on tour and open for Dave Matthews band.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Oh, that's big.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

The Dave and Dave tour, which would expose him to a whole new generation of people that are gonna go, oh, I know that song, right? And then whatever new stuff we were gonna write. So it was this was like my launch for me, it was my launch pad out of being the hired gun, doing what I'd always wanted to do, which was produce and manage artists.

A Fair Record Deal Meets A Major Label Carrot

SPEAKER_00 34:25

So we bring we put it together, they put we put a deal together with sovereign artists, they present a deal to Dave. It's a freaking solid deal. If the record doesn't sell something like 50,000 units, meaning if they don't do their job, the label, right? He owns the master. Okay, and can do with it what he wants. I mean, this is kind of unheard of back then.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Right? And um Dave's like, I like this deal. You know, the royalty structure was higher than any deal he'd ever been offered. And it was an incredibly fair deal. And if you know, if the record sells, they they they make money, Dave makes money, it's a beautiful thing, and they had options, all standard stuff, standard escalation clause, very fair. And somewhere in the midst of that, Dave reaches out, or somebody from Clive Davis's new label reaches out to Dave and dangles that carrot.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Now, the timing of this, you know, it's always about timing. This is in like maybe September of 2002 or 2003, something like that. What's happening is they get, I have to I should look it up so I have an accurate day, but Traffic was nominated to go into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Then they wind up, it's confirmed they're going into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And that that event, like let's say it's in April when they actually have the event where they honor the new inductees in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So we've got about four to five months of run-up to that event, which is not a lot of time. We've got to finish this album, we gotta start press and publicity because any print stuff you do, you gotta do like at least 60 days in advance, usually 90 days in advance. And we want all this stuff to hit in April, in March and April, and May, right? So it's like we got to make this deal, we gotta get this record done. You're you're not gonna have a bunch of opportunities to get in the rock and roll hall of fame and be on that television show, which is gonna get aired all over the planet. Let's let's time all of this together. And what ruined the deal from my perspective was Dave was intoxicated by the possibility of Clive Davis signing him.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

I know that feeling. I know that feeling. I came very close to that a couple of times.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

So prior to that, this whole excursion with sovereign artists, when Fleetwood Mac that that I call it Fleetwood Light, when Fleetwood Light broke up, I had become buddy buddy with Carl Stubbner, who was mixed Fleetwood's personal manager.

Promoters Loved Him Until He Vanished

SPEAKER_00 37:22

And he said, you know, you and I should manage Dave Mason together. And he goes, I got all the connections. You can be the nuts and bolts, day-to-day guy, but I'll I'll make all the connections. And and I, you know, I think we can really make something happen for Dave. So we make an agreement that we're gonna co-manage Dave, which Dave liked the idea of he didn't love Carl, but he loved me. So he agreed to that arrangement, and Carl got on the phone. And every day, Carl will call me go, yeah. I just talked to Larry Vallon, the guy that runs the amphitheater, because I called him to see about getting on some shows at the Universal Amphitheater as an opening act. You know, there's a whole lot of bands that Dave would be compatible with. And Dave Larry, who's the nicest guy on the planet, just a wonderful guy, incredible concert promoter, and just an awesome soulful guy. He's like, I'd love to be involved with Dave. I love Dave. I'm a big fan of Dave's, but Dave kind of screwed us up. He did show up for some shows here, and and he's so charming. A few years later, Dave was back on the bill and he didn't show up again.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

So this was something we heard again and again, Carl and I. Everybody we went to, oh, I'm a big Dave. What do you think of Dave Mason? Oh, I'm a huge Dave Mason fan. But and then we'd hear the butt. Now here's the kicker. Chris Wood, who was in the band, said Dave Mason fucked me over a hundred times, but I'm still madly in love with him. I'll never not be in love with Dave Mason. Which kind of tells the whole freaking story.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Yeah, so as we get because we've reaching an hour here, so we want to get this

Family, Final Years, And The Unreturned Call

SPEAKER_02 39:03

in. I want to just kind of wind it up with talking about the man that just passed away, really. He just left his planet. So how's his family? What did what did he what did he how was his human love? Did he have a wife, kids? What was the deal with David?

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yes, he he had a wife the last several years. They lived together, they were very happy. He loved his wife, and you know, he had to stop touring last year. He had some medical issues pop up, and finally the doctor said, Look, you can't you can't go on the road anymore. You're just taking a chance here. You've had an amazing run. You're gonna have to say goodbye to touring, which he did, and it was it broke his heart, broke his fan's heart.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Um, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

And and here's the thing, you know, I don't know if I've shared this with you guys yet, but my daughter's I had a birthday back in March, and sometime in February, early February, my daughter said, you know, we want to throw a party, a birthday party for you, but we don't want to make it a surprise because this is a big birthday, and we want to make sure that we get to invite all the people that you really care about. So put it will you please put a guest list together? And um, and and why don't you and we'd think it'd be great if you put a band together and play it at the party because that's like when you're that's your happy place making music. So we wound up a friend of mine offered his house. He's got a big piece of property over an acre, and it's a beautiful home. And he had just totally remodeled his backyard. He built a guest house, he built a pool, a big deck, a jacuzzi, an outdoor kitchen, all that this fabulous place to have, you know, entertain guests. So we had this party there, and I put a 10-piece band together for it, and I got Becca Bramlett. I flew her out for the party because she's been tight with us, and she loves my wife, loves my daughters, and every you know, she's like Aunt Becca.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Steve, I have FOMO about that party, you know, because I was I was I know I want to get this.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

You were on the list.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

I'm so sad about that.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Anyway, so Debecca was here. Becca stayed with us here at the house when she came into town for this party, and um, so we picked up the phone, speaker phone, called Diamond Dave Mason. Oh boy, and um, and of course, it went to voicemail after about four rings, and I go, This fucker's not gonna call us back, I bet. So Becca goes, Dave, it's tome, and it's Beck and Tom. And uh he used to call me the tomemeister, and uh she goes, It's Beck and Tomemeister, and we're having a party on Saturday, and we want you to come. Call us back, fucker.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

I hope he did, Dave.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

He never called us back, and then he died a month later.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Oh well, this would be.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

We were so bummed because Dave would have been a great that would have been like icing on the cake. It was awesome having Becca here because she's such an amazing Oh my god. Well, you know, this is this is that's what we left with Dave. Hey fucker.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Yeah. Well, this is a well, unfortunately, this is the sad ending, but a wonderful story of of Dave Mason, though,

Farewell, Gratitude, And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_02 42:04

I tell you. Wow. I I'm so and and your life too is woven in there. I got to see that picture of you and Andy Gibb. I've never seen that picture of you, and that boy, and now I know. I know the real Steve now. I know. What a wonderful story. What a bunch of Dave Mason. Wherever you you know you somewhere, we don't know where we all go after this mortal experience, but uh wherever you are, Dave. Uh Steve, the tommeister sends you his love, right? Yeah, and um we do too, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Uh Dave out of all the artists I've ever played with, Dave is the one guy that I miss playing with the most.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Wow. What a th that's an amazing tribute right there. Yeah. Thank you so much, Steve, for joining us with this amazing story about Dave Mason, which we're gonna air as soon as possible because we want to get it out there while his memory is still hanging in the air, and we can make a tribute to his family would like. And um, I love you, Steve, very much. You know that. And thank you very so much, too. I'm glad we got your song working. In in honor of another professional musician who would have laughed at me for this. Well, thank you so much, everybody, for joining us here on Out of the Blue. And um, I love you guys. See you see you soon. Out of the Blue, the podcast. Hosted by me, Vernon West. Co-hosted by Vernon West III, edited by Joe Gallo. Music and logo by Vernon West III. Have an out of the blue story of your own you'd like to share? Reach us at info at out of the blue hyphen the podcast.org. Subscribe to Out of the Blue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And on our website, out of the blue-thepodcast.org.