Emotional Intelligence and Drive with Dr. Michelle Nemec

A casual suggestion can change everything if you’re willing to act on it. We sit down with Dr. Michelle Nemec, a keynote speaker, author, educator, and solicitor from Sydney, Australia, to to learn what she's learned from six degrees, multiple career reinventions, and a life built on courage and curiosity.

Michelle breaks down emotional intelligence in plain terms: how we regulate emotions, read the room, build resilience, and protect our well-being. We talk about why teacher well-being matters as much as curriculum and why "positive education” works best when it’s lived from leadership all the way down.

We also move into the courtroom side of her life, including her experience across multiple areas of law and what she’s seen in community legal work. That segues into conversation about justice systems, incarceration cycles, and the overrepresentation of Indigenous Australians in detention. Michelle also shares stories of endurance, which connects with Vernon’s experience as a leukemia survivor.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Dr. Michelle

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome back to Out of the Blue the Podcast, where real people share extraordinary stories of resilience, transformation, and gratitude. I'm your host Vernon West, joined today by my son and co-host Vernon West III, a gifted musician and creative visionary who brings his own spark to these conversations about resilience, redemption, and the power of truth. Today's guest joins us from halfway around the world, Dr. Michelle Nemick, an unstoppable change maker from Australia, whose work is transforming lives across continents. Michelle is a keynote speaker, author, and educator with a passion for emotional intelligence and human potential. She holds six degrees, yes, six, including a PhD that explored how emotional literacy impacts the well-being of communities and organizations. Her story is one of endless curiosity and courageous reinvention. From the classroom to the courtroom, from boardrooms to mountain trails, she continues to challenge limits and expand perspectives. Michelle has struck the Himalayas, run marathons, and even swam around the Greek islands, all while championing the power of mindset, self-awareness, and purpose. She reminds us that change isn't something that happens to us, it's something we can choose with courage, heart and emotional wisdom. Dr. Michelle Nimek, welcome to Out of the Blue the Podcast.

Curiosity Degrees And Reinvention

SPEAKER_01 2:04

It's always nice.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah, no, I love it. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Well, one of my guests told me I should start a little cottage industry and write introductions for people and just call them up and say that to share their day up.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

I do feel honoured and look to connect with you over in Boston is fortuitous because, as I said to you, I was there in December of last year, and I can honestly say the people in Boston are the friendliest and most helpful I have ever encountered anywhere around the world. Well, within an hour, yeah, within half an hour of my arrival, I was seeking um adapters as you do when you travel and realize the ones you've got aren't right. So I went to two shops and one young man actually offered to accompany me on the bus to a megastore and walked with me to the bus stop. I assured him I could get on a bus. But I I found that extraordinary that he was prepared to do that. He he did get approval, of course, before he left his workplace. But that was just a small sample of the beginning of what was an exceptional visit.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Well, I'm so happy to hear that. Um so anyway, we we like to start somewhere at the beginning. I mean, you have those six degrees and all that stuff is pretty impressive. When you were young, young and before you started all this, what what what happened? What what brought it on? Well, this amazing curiosity and drive.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Look, I've always been a high achiever and I've always been driven. And it is in my DNA, so it's not something I necessarily believed that would ever happen or foresaw coming. All I can say is I have a passion for learning, and I have a fairly uh strong intellect and a capacity, a fairly strong capacity, obviously, to do things. Um I swore after the PhD, which was degree number four, that I was all done. That was it, all done. So I did uh travel the world solo. I did two around the world trips, and then I went back and went back into education and looked, I love the core business, which is engaging with people, but I got very, let's say, um underwhelmed with the compliance and the all of the excesses, and then I just decided I want to study law, and this actually was something in 1990 that was in my psyche. I had decided I wanted to study law, do an MBA, and run a marathon. So, as fate would have it, I was accepted to receive a government scholarship and was working with someone. This is how things happened, Vernon. I was working with someone who was studying law, and she said, look, just fill out this form and you'll get government funding. If it wasn't for her, I would never have studied law. That's true. Yeah, I also wanted to do the MBA and got a scholarship for women in leadership, and it was easy because I got a lot of credit for previous study, uh, got a lot of it paid for, and was able to actually do that while studying law and then the marathon. I only ever wanted to do New York. Um, and it was the fifth and it it is the final marathon I've done.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Did you do the Boston marathon?

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Uh no, I didn't. I think for Boston you have to qualify, and I'm definitely not really a marathon runner. I'm someone that can do it, but not not for speed.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Not you can do it, that's pretty pretty.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

I can do it, but you know, um there's a few reasons why I'm not really suited to marathon running. Um, and it's more for me about go in it, complete it, enjoy the experience, and take from it what you will on that level. Um I've never been concerned about the time because my time is slow.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

But 26 something miles, that's another that's nothing to sneeze at. Yeah, 42.1.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Just getting it done is impressive.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Are you kilometers? You were just you're converting it to kilometers just then were you just doing that?

SPEAKER_02 6:24

That's yeah, 42.1. I think it's what 26 miles.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yes, 22 miles, right.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

But by far the most incredible one was New York, with their enthusiasm and turning it into just a huge party. And look, I was going so slowly, but I did have a top that said Wonder Woman Australia. And so they were calling out, Wonder Woman, I see you, you got this. I see you on up there. And I that's nice, that's pretty cool. Yeah, no, it's pretty uh sensational, and there's no way you could start that event and not finish because of the just the absolute sheer enthusiasm of the people on the sideline. You you feel like you are letting them down, let alone your side.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

I I imagine that would be a big part of it, right? The enthusiasm of the art, the people.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

I hadn't been told that, Vernon, but until you actually experience it, um, it is like nothing else on the planet.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I yeah, and you it's the doubling, this is doubling my understanding of it. It's very

Marathon Mindset And New York Energy

SPEAKER_01 7:30

almost tangible, apparently.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah, no, it was uh very visceral. But at one point, you know, the part people were parting so much, they were actually on the course. I think you know, there'd been a bit too much party in some respects. But I think like it is quite intense, they've got drums and it's very loud, and when your body's screaming, it's like, oh, this isn't this is a lot, but it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

And the out of the blue um universe, we look at things that happen out of the blue. Now you just mentioned how that how that lady, if she hadn't said to you about the law, you wouldn't have done that.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Oh no, it's extraordinary.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

That's out of the blue, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, I but at the time you don't realize it. And then I did realize soon after when I got in and I went back and thanked her, but I had something very similar happen when I was stuck doing a PhD, and the supervisors, well, that's a whole political game on its own, but I basically was at the critical point and was on the critical point for a year, and I literally didn't know how or what I needed to do. And again, I met someone, happened to be again a colleague, and I sat down with her and had lunch because she had recently done a PhD. I'm not lying, Vernon. In 30 minutes, I learned more from her than I had in the previous three

Emotional Intelligence In Schools

SPEAKER_02 9:00

years. Wow. Oh, yeah, I ended the lunch and I said, thank you, I now understand what I need to do, and I went and did it.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Now, what was that PhD in?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Um, it was educational psychology, drawing on three key um themes, if you like, leadership, learning, and um social capital, but utilising uh emotional intelligence theory as well as uh positive psychology. So it actually brought together a lot of different areas that I was interested in.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Emotional intelligence. I'd like to hear tell me more about that. What is emotional? I have a idea, but I want to hear you what you say.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah, look, Goleman kind of popularized it. So, Daniel Goleman, I'm referring to. It is really about regulating your own emotions, understanding uh what the social skills are, and one of those many, of course, is resilience, and there's a whole set of skills around that. Uh, managing your emotions, being aware of how you affect others and how others affect you. And in my um studies, it was also looking at how this impacts on well-being, and in turn, in an educational setting, how teachers' well-being impacts on the experience of student schooling.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

So basically, teachers' emotional intelligence affects what they can teach, basically.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

What they can teach, but also most importantly, how they engage their students and how their students feel cared for and how the students believe they can actually achieve academically through that relational aspect. But also how they're outside of the classroom, how the teachers' uh well-being and their emotional intelligence affects school ethos and school culture, and therein creates a positive or more of a negative kind of toxic potentially environment, which no one wants to be surrounded by toxicity. And this is one of the things that um came to light that teachers uh needed work on their own well-being, their own understanding of positive psychology, how to build it as their own skill, and how to take it into the classroom.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

It makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yeah, yeah, and it's actually now uh been um adopted in lots of schools in Australia, and I'm sure more broadly as well, this concept of positive education, using positive psychology theory, but also integrating it into learning and of course the leadership, because it starts at the top, and you do want it kind of going through every layer as well, right down to the cleaners, uh, anyone that's in the school. Um, yeah, they almost everyone impacts everybody else. So that was another aspect that came out of it.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Definitely could use a lot of that uh knowledge in the American public school system. Because there I think there is there is a lot of like teachers are just kind of they're not really paid or taken care of that great, and so it is just kind of like let's get whoever we can get to teach the kids. You don't they don't think about how teaching the teachers is important as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Yeah, well, I've heard quite a few teachers in my time complain about students and even some that don't seem to like the students, and I think, well, really, if you're not passionate about wanting to make a difference to the lives of young people and not passionate about your work, don't do don't be in this career because it's too hard. You actually need to love it, I think.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

The United States definitely is um, I mean, I went when I went to school, I mean, I loved some all my pretty much most of my teachers, I really loved them. But things have things have gotten a little um, you know, it's also overblown in the press a bit. I there are still a lot of really love beautiful teachers out there.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Oh, of course. And the beautiful thing is, Vernon, that students really only need to form some kind of connection with at least one teacher, and that can actually be really protective for mental health, well-being, their resilience, etc. And so that's a really important message, and it was something that I took on. If I can make a difference for just one student in each of my classes, then you know I've done my job.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

But it's interesting that you're doing that. Now that brings me to like your your law, you got into law. Now that was um, you got a you're now you're now a lawyer admitted to the go, you could tell us about it.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Yeah, I'm actually spanning two careers. But so when people say, Oh, what do you do? I I usually say I'm not sure, because I am an accredited teacher still, but I've also been admitted as a solicitor. So I've worked in four different law firms or for four jobs, and um had experience in probably eight or ten different areas of law, so litigation, property, uh, cyber, insurance, criminal law. So done a lot of different things and also worked in a community

Law Work And Broken Incentives

SPEAKER_02 14:20

law uh center which dealt with the asylum seekers. So that was immigration law, international law, etc., and had the opportunity, even though I'm very much at the beginning of this, to interact with lots of different types of people, people from different cultures, Vernon, and people obviously who need lots of different types of assistance. Also um education law, of course, because I've got a strong background there.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

You we had a guest on, I told you, I think I mentioned it to you earlier, who was his his big um he spent years in prison for really uh nonsense. They I mean it was just because he was black and he got got a hundred and forty-four years sentence for being uh in the car of somebody who held up a liquor store with a BB gun. And they basically threw the book at him. Oh it's insane to give this guy 144 years of prison. But he obviously was too smart. He was a wonderful, he's a wonderful person, and when he was in jail, he was able to get through it relatively unscathed. And the the people in the jail were uh like the the warden and the inmates were uh well, he helped people. He was he was actually going to the law library library and getting helping guys get pro what do they call it, the uh paroles or what stuff of that nature. But um his thing is about how the the justice system is really just training criminals. They go in there, they go in there and they come out worse. It doesn't, you know, is it like that in Australia? What's it doing down there?

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Uh sadly, yes. And of course, we have our own issues. Uh we have a a minority in the population, which is of course the Indigenous Australians, but sadly in the Northern Territory they do make up a very large proportion of people incarcerated, and it is a very sad indictment that very young, I'd call them children, are also in detention and make their way into the juvenile system and then the criminal system. And it is constantly in the news. And there are um in some parts of New South Wales also jails which house a very high proportion of Aboriginal and Indigenous Australians, despite the fact I think they make up 4% of the population. Um, and I I don't want to quote the wrong figure, but they are making up uh a very, very high proportion of people who are incarcerated. And it is uh mirroring, I think, in some respects, the US situation.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

It it is, it is in fact. Um what can we do? I mean, what can I mean what I mean I guess um uh awareness, raising awareness is the first thing that comes to my mind that um we as the taxpayers, if we know more and more about uh this happening and the degree to which it's happening, and also how it's not making anything better and create and in fact it's creating a criminal uh element, like they they become professional criminals and they keep going back to the prison every so often. It's like they get used to it and it's not it's not working.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Yeah, and on the flip side, of course, crime is a huge political issue. People want to feel safe and they want to um hear from their political leaders that you know the arm of the law comes down heavy. So there is that side of it, but then there's the reality of what happens to these people, and as you s as you rightly point out, for some it is the beginning of a cycle which is a lifelong cycle. But yeah, circling back to what you told me about that person, I'm really pleased to hear that justice did prevail. But 144-year sentence, I mean, this sounds insane.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

It is insane, it literally is. Completely insane that this um could happen. And that's and he that in a way, like his attitude invites like I like when we're talking about out of the blue, when you have the positive attitude and you are curious and you work in your your m mind, you know, then you will out

Bold Choices And Family Influence

SPEAKER_01 19:00

of the blue things work in your favor. You will find things it's it seems to be that's the like I don't know if you I find that in my life it's true, and I I'm hearing you say your life, and it just validates that for me. You've had a lot of out-of-the-blue events coming because you yourself have this positive outlook on life, and you what you want to learn, you're curious, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Yeah, I think too, set um seeking things out and having grit. Um, I went with my sister and her son over to the Netherlands, and we were in the town that my father had grown up in, and he had a childhood, my father has passed away, and he had a childhood friend, and I was determined that we needed to meet this friend, and what's more to explain what had happened with my father, but to connect him with my stepsister in Melbourne. And so, look, long story short, I found the street, I found the house, and I had um said to my sister, I'm going in. She said, What? And I said, No, no, no, I'm going in. I'm going to find this friend. And I knocked on the door and no one answered. So I was bold enough to go to the back, and the gentleman was there. This is after 40 years of my I'd never met this person and he didn't speak English, and I have just the odd word here and there in Dutch, but we managed to communicate. I was showing photos. Um, and yeah, that was incredible. So sometimes I think you've just got to be a bit bold and a bit brazen and a bit doggered.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

And just if you want to if you want to do something, um, because oh, that's right. The other thing that day was my sister said, Right, we've got we're on our way to wherever it was. We've got 15 minutes. So if you want to try and find dad's uh childhood friend, we'll go to the street. And she she wouldn't go into the house. I said, I'm going in. No answer. I came out and I said, No answer, I'm going to the back. She said, What just get in? Um, and then later I thought, okay, that's that's both a strength, but maybe at times it can be also something to be careful of, just being, you know, absolutely stepping.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Absolutely. Uh that's there's a lot to be said for being safe. But I think, you know, in a way you're kind of guided by you know the goodness of your intent. I think kind of kind of protects you a little bit, um, as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

But I think the other reason, Vernon, I've done what I've done is my family influence. So my father immigrated to Australia as a 17 year old. He left school as a 14 year old and worked six days a week in a furniture factory, taught himself English. Through the BBC and actually was a kitchen hand on a boat. And I think he took up running as a veteran. And my sister and I used to go running with men, uh, cross-country country training, and I never thought anything of it. So I never had this sense of I'm a female, I can't do this, or there's an age thing. And a lot of those things for me were kind of just not there. And obviously, as an adult, I'm very aware of uh these factors. But what it did for me, given his background and his lack of education, it made me really quite hungry to embrace opportunities and to chase them, to chase them.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

That's a beautiful thing. As a matter of fact, you made me think of our mutual, I think our mutual mutual friend Rusty. Rusty Rusty wanted me to say hi for him. So he's saying that.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Yeah, no, he is an incre hello. He's incredible, and I do see his posts every single day. He's out there, and is it 500,000 miles he's now walked? Um something like that.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

He's been around the world

Swimming For Cancer Research

SPEAKER_01 23:15

three times around the equator. That's what it actually is.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

It is an incredible feat. And look, he's such an inspiring person, and we we have spoken on the phone, and he's an absolute delight. So really is, yeah. Thank you, Busty.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

I'm proud to call him my friend. He's a he's a real good guy. You are uh um you you swim around the Greek islands, that's gonna be a hell of a thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Uh well, I started ocean swimming in 2016, and obviously as a child I was proficient, but only really poor swimming and playing. But the reason I got involved in this um is due to an organization called CANTU. So CANTU is a charity here in Sydney and it um raises funds for cancer research of early career scientists to find better ways to manage cancer. So I got involved in both the running, oh the running, oh yes, the running, the swimming, the trail running, the kayaking, the singing. I've I've basically done everything. I'm an all-or-nothing person, but ocean swimming started in 2016. And I do remember the first year at Bondi Beach when we were going in each Saturday. It was both in um fear but delight, screaming, you know, with the waves, I mean. And also there's the S-word, which we're not meant to say, S-H-A-R-K. So after yeah, after a year of doing ocean swimming and achieving the 1k swim, I was made captain of the next group that went through the next year. So I thought I've got to stop screaming first of all, and I've got to kind of manage that. So eventually I stopped thinking about that, but just accept they're there all the time. But I've just kind of worked on it the same as you do in anything. It's a process to build up your confidence and obviously to train and raise funds for cancer. But yes, last year I did have the opportunity to again go with Cantu to the Greek Islands, and we were swimming, I think, 5K each day over a week, but not one go, it was uh maybe 3K, 1K, 1K. There were three swims a day, but it was a lot. I think the last day I actually felt seasick.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Now, why did you um raising funds for cancer? Is that a anything personal about that?

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Or um look, it started out. I just after my PhD thought I need to get out, I need to get exercising again. Um, and at the beginning it was that, and part of being in Cantu is that you must raise a certain number of a certain amount of um money. But what happened shortly after that time, uh Vernon, my father was diagnosed with cancer, and that's when it became very personal.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Really?

SPEAKER_02 26:21

So for 10 years he um lived with cancer and um it was bladder cancer, and at one point he thought he was clear, but then it came back, etc. Then within the space of five years, he passed. My both my parents-in-law um as well passed from cancer and I lost a couple of other people, but the three people from cancer meant yes. It uh, like a lot of people in Cantu who either have cancer themselves or have a close family or friend, these days pretty much everybody knows someone um who's got cancer, yeah, or has passed. So, yes, it did become personal.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, uh well, I I very much appreciate what you're doing. I am a cancer survivor myself. Oh and um yeah, I can tell you that I had leukemia.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

You have it now.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

No, I don't have it now. I did I did survive it, yeah. Um and it was not a fun trip, let me tell you. It was very terrifying and and uh you know, and I saw a lot of people that didn't make it. Um one of the reasons I started out of the blue was because uh when I was in the the um hospital, I was there for like a long time, and I would walk around the ward, the quad, they call it, and um carrying the pole, you know, with the stuff hanging, you know, and you the drips into your blood, you know, intravenous. Oh yes and I would walk around the quad to get exercise, and I would stop and see the people in the different rooms. And the ones who were surviving and even thriving, getting through the treatment, and they would end up walking out of there. Well, the ones who had people in their lives, they had connection, they weren't alone. The ones who never uh the ones who did not survive, sadly, when I went by to see them, they would never have a visitor, they were never on the phone, and they they just got so you know, circling the drain, and then they give up hope. And and cancer's a rough, rough ride, you know, and uh without the love of family. That's that's what I did out of the blue. The first few guests we had was about cancer, it was about people who survived it and turned to surviving cancer into thriving. You know, they found a our motto of out of the blue is finding the way forward, you know. So we've had you know people that's all sorts of trauma, and then we have people that we had a trauma expert on, as a matter of fact, too. Um but but it's it's really more what's what's interesting to me about you is not only are you you you did this all the time, you're also representing cancer, really, and that's that's something wonderful. But but you you said in emotional intelligence intelligence a little while back that one of the things about emotional intelligence is resilience. Absolutely. Now we at out of the blue are call ourselves we're starting the resilience movement, because we do think that it's uh it is something that we need to become more aware of. Uh that resilience is the name of the game if you're a human being in this crazy world, really, where things happen seemingly out of the blue that we don't know what's going to happen. It's so random, it's chaos. But when we connect, we can take that chaos and make it more like it's purposeful. Like I noticed things come out of the blue for me. I look behind there, there's always some sort of good intent coming through that event. That's what I I try

Resilience Tools That Actually Help

SPEAKER_01 30:00

to find that when I find guess. And I think with you, you are a perfect example of that. Like all those things that happen to you to get on your way to getting six, count them six degrees. You you had a lot of out-of-the-blue things happen to you, and that's it's just wonderful. And people are gonna understand how to reset resonate with that, you know, because that's what I think. We want you to that's why I better shut up. I want you to talk because I want people to hear the person who's got all this, you know, they've heard enough from me.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

I think sometimes we need to remember that in the messiness is the clarity and getting through the mess, the messiness of life and things that are going on on a daily basis. Sometimes we can't see the out-of-the-blue uh level to it, um, but it it emerges at some point in the future. But yeah, using these resilient skills, so self-talk, growth mindset, mindfulness. Um, some people, you know, call it oh, I'm forgetting the term, you know, when you um attract what you manifesting? Yes, a lot of people are into this. I do believe in chasing after things, but I think you need, you know, it's not just going to happen. You have to take action.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

And I think gratitude is a big one, and being optimistic.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Gratitude. I've been writing a lot about gratitude lately. Definitely have.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

So there's a whole suite of things that I kind of subscribe to, and I think there's a spiritual level to everything as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Absolutely. I really believe that's the component. Um, I had a I was speaking to someone earlier about most of the spiritual level are the people that believe in God, people who are agnostic. And I said my opinion is that uh really what you you need to do is raise your own sense of good or right.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

And as you raise your sense that is the vibration of that's just the vibration.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Yeah, and as you raise the sense of good in your own consciousness, right? That determines how things come to you, manifesting goodness and advan good things in your life. And I say, I said, you know, if someone could tell me they believe in God, but this they're they're they're their their stand their their you know, their highest sense of good is around here, and then I see a guy who's a who's an atheist and he's got a he's got a higher sense of good, you know. So who I don't care what you I really don't care if a person tells me they're a a believer or a non-believer. Show me, yeah, you know. Yeah, it's through actions, isn't it? It is through actions, and you could look at you. I mean, that's why I'm still looking forward to talking to you. All the achievements you have done. I I knew there's a powerhouse here of of something, a Promethean flame of some kind that is that is burning and coming out.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

One of the things, Vernon, I don't really stop to dwell on them. So that's why your introduction was helpful. It reminded me. Um, I just kind of make sure I surround my people myself with the right people, you know, try to eliminate the physical clutter, the noise around me, and make sure I am, you know, defying age is another one of my things. Do not be defined by your age. So just applying a certain kind of set of principles which are working for me. And it does include sleep, nutrition, physical activity, you know, some kind of pillars around physical well-being.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

What are the what are the pillars? What are those pillars for you?

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Yeah, well, as I said, sleep, sleep, nutrition, nutrition, hydration, hydration, water. Yeah, uh, yes, physical activity.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

A little plug for our merch.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yeah, that's a that is a great one. And then of course, there's laughter, you know. Absolutely. The other thing I really also enjoy is meeting strangers and helping people. So looking for opportunities to help people without expecting anything back, Vernon.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah, I I agree with that. Um Verna and I are are both musicians, and we do amazing. And uh you do that for the same thing. You really want to play, you play for strangers. You don't play, you don't want you don't gather just your friends, you know, you're playing for strangers, and you're bringing you're bringing something of your inside joy out. And and I used to do it as a kid when I did play music, I started because it made me feel better. I mean, I had to deal with my stuff at home. My dad was a bit of a drunk, and you know, life was a little tough at the home. So when I got out and I played music, I was able to like get out of myself and help people with my music.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

It's good for the soul and the spirit and brings joy not only to yourself but those around you. And the other thing I would add to that kind of uh list I mentioned before is keep challenging yourself and keep uh growing, learning. Keep challenging yourself. Keep challenging. Yeah, and do not think that you can't learn from older, younger people, be open to learning from everybody.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Oh my goodness, you speak in my language, Michelle. This is exactly what I I mean. I have my son who's my co-host, my daughter, my oldest daughter is also a co-host, and my youngest daughter has is also, and they we I learn more from them. You know, they keep me I have to stay curious, you know, and keep me grounded. They definitely do. And um, yeah, you you can't stop learning, you just gotta keep learning. I'm very curious, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Yeah, I am all done with formal learning.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Right, but I mean I mean learning in life is of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

On a daily basis, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I love it. Yeah, then you in a way that's that that's called that's how out of the blue works. If things come to you out of the blue and you follow them up, follow up with it and learn from it, it seems like it you're priming the pump. More things, you know, more things come into your life from out of the blue because it it feels like you know you're you're a

Discipline In A Distracted World

SPEAKER_01 36:25

you're a worthy listener, so it's gonna talk to you. It brings you more. Right, thanks, Learn and it's like having a conversation with uh the universal mind or something. You know?

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Yeah, and sorry, we've got a bit of a time lag, so I keep almost talking over you because yeah, our timing, given we're on opposite different parts of the world. So apologies, I'm not meaning to do that.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Oh no, though it's probably me talking too much. I do that too, but don't worry. Um so um we're getting near our ending, and like what I want to I want to like sum up and tell us where you are now, where your life is, where you are right now, Michelle. And Dr. Michelle Nemek.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Uh well, I'm exploring keynote speaking, and I've been fortunate to go around the world as a keynote speaker and be paid to do it at times. I'm also keen to explore the physicality and behind all of this, of course, is human connection, friendships, family, etc. So I'm also keen to explore new things, and learning languages is something I'm keen on, and a lot more travel. But look, I don't know because every day is a new adventure with boundless opportunities. So just embrace it and run with it. Um yeah, that's that's about it for the moment.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

I want to say that this has been a very um eruditious edition of uh Heart of the Blue. And um, I've learned a lot. How about you, Verna? What do you got any questions from Michelle before you say bye?

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Um, I mean, I had I had some, but then they all ended up getting answered. Like, I'm I'm just very curious about like how you became such a disciplined person. Like, like at there any was there any point through like your upbringing or like your young adult phase as the as the representative of the the young dummies out there? Like, was there any point that you felt, I guess, uh obstacles that brought you to this level of strength? Because it seems like you are like the Wonder Woman shirt makes sense now. You are a superhero.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

That's one of my nicknames. There's certain friends that call me that as a as a term of endearment, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Sure. I mean, it makes sense. You're very inspiring. So so like, yeah, I don't know. Um, I think we all aspire to have that level of structure and consistency in our lives. And I I feel like it's not something that you just wake up doing. You have to, it's hard-earned. So I'm just curious, I guess, about that. But that could be a whole other podcast as well.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Absolutely. All I can say is I am atypical. I've never kind of just run with the crowd. I'm not um not conventional in some respects, and I've always been quite driven as a young child. I was like that. So it is something that's in me, but obviously there's a whole skill set that you learn as well, going through different experiences and overcoming things. But yeah, that's another whole podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Yeah, but definitely, boy, Michelle, it's amazing because I can relate to this, Vernon. I'm telling you, when I was young, I could definitely I was driven. I don't know why. It's just something you just feel that at a young age. I was like, I was a president of my classes going through school. I was I was just driven. I don't know why. I haven't I don't really know why. I just maybe because I liked it, I loved it, you know. I wanted to learn more. I don't know. I just wanted to experience more, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Sure. I mean, you know, as someone who I think when I was younger had a drive, and then I guess times have brought certain obstacles. I think COVID, I think social media, these things that have sort of made if I don't know, it's made it easy to compare and it's made it easy to get bogged down by societal pressures or like hearing, I guess, about I don't know, people's people's accolades and feeling like it's it's difficult yourself to reach those certain heights because you're seeing, I guess, like the the highest of the highs all around you all the time.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

I was going to say, look, at many points imposters syndrome has kicked in, and none more so than when I was doing the PhD, you know, this kind of well, who did you think you were to actually believe you could do this? And it does get tough, and you would know from uh being a musician, you do need to find a way through that and just kind of stick with something, um, not give up. I mean, how long have you is it guitar you play, Vernon?

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Or what's your I so I am a singer, songwriter, guitarist, and I played drums in three bands.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Oh, that's incredible. So you're a high achiever as well.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

The thing about high achievement. You know what I was gonna say about high achievement, Vernon? And Michelle already said it earlier, when I read her introduction, she doesn't even think about it. It's like you you really don't think about what you've done. When someone reads it, reads it out to you, and you go, Wow, I did all that. You know, it's like you don't really think of it, you just keep doing it. And you someday someone's gonna read an intro about you and you're gonna go, Wow, I did all that. Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Sure, yeah. No, yeah, it's and I I definitely appreciate the mindset of actually following up on the suggestions and inspirations that other people give you. Because it is easy to say, like, oh yeah, yeah, that's oh, I guess I don't really know about that. Uh anyway, back on with my day.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Or I'll do that tomorrow, or I'll do it next week. Well, how about that?

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah, and that's that that's what I think the beauty of it is is that by doing that, you're priming the pump, you're keeping that stuff coming, and it will continue to come when you do it.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Absolutely. And it is one of those things you do just need to be a driven person and commit to the thing. So I have no doubt if you wanted to, you could pick up a tuba. Whatever, whatever, whatever your instrument. It does, it just takes a lot of work, you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Yeah, I think it's about the desire and the motivation and persistence.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

That's what it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

100%.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

That's it. Well, we'll we'll leave them on that one. What say that what was that again? What motivation and persistence? Say that again for us.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Motivation, desire, and persistence.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

There you go. Motivation, desire, and persistence. And you epitomize that, Michelle Nimick. Dr. Michelle Nimick of Sydney, Australia. And thank you for joining us here on Out of the Blue, the podcast. And don't forget to hit the like and subscribe. And and thank you, Vernon, my co-host. And thank you again, Michelle. It's been a lovely experience. I hope to we'll talk again. I'll be I'll be definitely in touch when we get ready to go live with this. So pleasure. Your pleasure's

Wrap Up And Ways To Connect

SPEAKER_01 43:52

really pleasures. Pleasure's ours. And um, and welcome to the out of the blue family, by the way. Once you're in it, once you're in it, you're in it. Perfect. Love it. All right, all right. I'll talk to you soon. And um bye everybody. Out of the blue, the podcast, hosted by me, Vernon West. Co-hosted by Vernon West III, edited by Joe Gallo. Music and logo by Vernon West the third. Have an out-of-the-blue story of your own you'd like to share? Reach us at info at out of the blue-thepodcast.org. Subscribe to Out of the Blue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And on our website, out of the blue hyphen the podcast.org.