Episode 50 | What If Science Could SANG? Environmental Scientist Jordan Ayanna on Music as Climate Education

What if the scientific method had a soundtrack? In this inspiring episode of Compost, Cotton & Cornrows, Dominique sits down with Jamaican American artist, environmental scientist and educator Jordan Ayanna (better known as The Singing Scientist), to explore what happens when music becomes a tool for climate education, cultural storytelling and collective transformation. From conducting oyster research in the middle of the ocean to writing songs that teach children about ecosystems, Jordan shares how her upbringing that’s rooted in Jamaican and Southern traditions, while also revealing that sustainability wasn't something that was LIVED! Together, they unpack why science shouldn't remain trapped in academic journals, how rhythm can make complex environmental concepts accessible and why creativity may be one of our greatest climate solutions. jordan-interview.txt

Throughout the conversation, Jordan reflects on founding WYNU Worldwide (Wake Your Neighbors Up), the importance of communicating science in ways everyday people can actually understand and the responsibility of artists to shape culture while protecting the planet. Dominique and Jordan also discuss Hurricane Melissa, environmental grief, Black sustainability across the diaspora and why the future of climate leadership depends on valuing storytellers, creative communicators as essential movement builders. 

https://www.wakeyourneighborsup.com/about

Compost, Cotton & Cornrows: the space where Black & Afro-Indigenous Vanguards are redefining sustainability through storytelling!

@Compost_Cotton_Cornrows

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And something had happened where a line broke. And we had to like jump in the water to like pull up the oyster cages so it didn't go because the tide was high. So we had to do it in that moment, or we were gonna lose the whole cage. And I let the men handle that. But in the moment I just started singing. And when I was singing, they just got calmer in such an intense moment. And they were like, don't stop. So now I'm literally singing as like the the wind is going and the ocean. And then like I kid you not, it was like something off a movie. Two dolphins swim up, and then a whole bunch of fish come around. We get the cages together, and everyone's looking at me like, what you like, what you got going on? Like, so I keep singing, and I think that was the moment. Jordan Queen of making science accessible for the youth through education and music and vibes. Welcome to the pod. Welcome. I am blessed to be here. Like, what's yes? I'm so glad to have you. And before we get into all the things, I would love to ground our conversation by you giving us a definition of sustainability. Ooh, period. Okay, we we going right into it. Okay. For I feel like sustainability has so many different definitions to each, to individual individual person, to Google, to ChatGPT. Me personally, when I think of sustainability, I think of cultivating a system or reality that can exist on its own without any external influence. So the system itself can perpetuate a cycle internally that can go on forever and ever and ever without any external influence or help. You know how I know you're a whole ass artist? Because you just gave such a rhythmic definition. Like, yes. I love that. I love that definition. I felt very rounding and powerful. Yes. Yes. Because you can't sustain if you need something outside of you to push it forward. So that's that's my definition. I love that definition. I love it so much. I mean, I'm ready to get into all the things. Yes. Um, I'm ready too. I'ma uh I'm a I'ma say the things. If you ask the things, I'ma say the things. I'm here for the things. Okay. I'm here for the things. I don't know. I mean, but I mean let's let's let's let's let's inch our way in. So, like, you are this phenomenal Jamaican-American music artist, and you have this background in environmental science. Yeah, how does your cultural roots inform um your sort of like your music work, your science work, your advocacy work? Oh, that's a great question. So, my cultural roots inform my social work, my music work, and my advocacy work by it's like growing up, and so my mom is from Camilla, Georgia. My dad is from Mandeville, Jamaica. Both super country, like the like the most country of country of country on both sides. So growing up, I was always on somebody's farm, eating somebody's local food, and doing stuff and things outside. And so when it came to music, I have like this southern soul, like heavy. My grandma had me listening to The Temptations and Gladys Knight and all these Aretha Franklin. And then my dad has me over here listening to all these old school gospel reggae artists, like PopCon, Bouju Bantan, like um, of course, the Marlies, and a bunch of like underground artists locally that he knew. And so one of the common themes was always God, and one of the other common themes was always within my life and my music was being outside. So I never knew that there was a disconnect between like people and earth until I started to get older, and I'm like, why y'all caught like disconnect between people and earth? That's what I'm saying. That framing is wild. Yeah, I never knew that because for me it was like we always play in Survivor outside, or we all we always like doing something. So when I started to actually like, I started to play the steel pan in high school. And then I learned about how the steel pan was made through uh recycled trash cans and and and pans. And I'm like, yo, this is beautiful. And then it just kind of opened my mind to like the sustainable aspect of like musical instruments. So then after high school, I was like, Ma, I don't want to go to school. Like, I want to do music. And she was like, that's not an option. That's not an option. Okay, so then from there, I'm like, all right, well, if I go to school, can I go to school for being outside? Like, I only want to be outside. So that's how I got into environmental science. Noah had a scholarship program that they had just started at FAMU, and I was a part of the first cohort. So I got a full scholarship and a stipend. I just had to maintain a 3.5 GPA. And I was like, okay, cool. If I can go to school to learn about Earth and being outside, I'll do it. And then it was like I just, it just boom, here we are. Because I'm like, I kept doing music as I was doing my research. And then it was like, okay, this is cool, this is nice. And it was, it was just a continuation from my childhood. Nothing ever really like changed. And I'm very blessed that I had parents that was like, met me halfway. Like, they met me halfway. And I I I give so much thanks and praises to like God for like blessing me with the parents that I had, because they weren't like, you gotta pick one. And across the diaspora, that is most certainly not always the case. Yes, it's not. It's like, oh no, you're gonna be a doctor, yeah, or uh a scientist, like, girl, music don't pay the bills. I did go through that period. Yeah, I did go through that period of like, okay, girl, like, you need to get a real job. And I'm like, what is a real job? If my bills pay, then my bills pay. You know what that just reminded me of the scene from Sister Act 2 when Lauren Hill's mom was yelling out the window. Singing does not pay the bills. Singing, do you know that scene? Yeah, or was it, I don't know if that was, I might be mixing two scenes, but there was just it sticks in my head all the time when uh home chick was just like, singing does not put food on the tables. Yes. And I'm so thankful for them for incorporating that because I feel like that is a really big cultural thing when it comes to music. And it's like, mama, when you on the way to work, what you listening to? Music. When you cooking, what you listening to? That part. Music. When you cleaning a house on a Sunday, what you listening to? Music. So somebody bills getting paid from all the music you listening to. Mmm. Good, like, good correlation. Good correlation. I'm always so fascinated, but also there's so much beauty when folks at a diaspora is like, we essentially inherently have been sustainable. Yeah. Right. Like now I'm going to school, I'm getting an education around it, but naturally, organically, that was my lifestyle. Exactly. It is literally in my DNA. Exactly. Exactly. Now it's like a thing. Yeah. But it's like, bro, this is how we live. 100%. 100%. And was there a specific moment outside of the steel pan or a specific song or you know, energetic experience when you realize that you can bridge singing and science in order to educate and activate people. So the the experience was while I was in school, I was working at a studio full time. I was I was working with some friends. We were building our own studio, and that's how I was like getting extra money and stuff for outside of school. And there was a moment where I'm like, bro, so many people come in here to record their music. So many people come in here. I record my music, and I was in, I was on a research trip. I was in the middle of the ocean studying oysters. I was doing oyster research.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

And something had happened where a line broke, and we had to like jump in the water to like pull up the oyster cages so it didn't go because the tide was high. So we had to do it in that moment, or we were gonna lose the whole cage. And I let the men handle that. But in the moment I just started singing. I just started singing. I was just singing. And when I was singing, it was like everything, they just got calmer in such an intense moment, and they were like, don't stop. So now I'm literally singing as like the the the wind is going and the the ocean, and then like I kid you not, it was like something off a movie. Two dolphins swim up, and then a whole bunch of fish come around. So now everyone is like, we we get the cages together, and everyone's looking at me like which like which we got going on, like, like I know you and I'm like, so I keep singing, and I think that was the moment, and it was on my birthday, it was February 2nd, it was on my birthday. And that was the moment I was like, oh this is this is this is it, because I'm like, the music helps in these moments. There's so many people consume oysters, but they will never know what it's like working on an oyster farm or getting it to their table. Or when we're in the lab and we're doing all these um research analysis, and we're going through like music just helps with like the rhythm of the scientific method. And then I was like, I went to my dean. I kid you not, I had this download. I went to my dean, I said, I want to change my senior thesis from um oyster research to bridging the gap between science and society using digital media because I run all the social media, I do communications. My my one of my focuses was communications. I work, I'm out here in the field, and I'm like, half the people who we're doing this research for don't understand what it is that we're researching. But they do understand music and they do understand things at a fifth grade reading level. So as a scientist, these are the this is what matters to me. Like, I I like the ego part of going out and researching all the time and the lab posts, that's cute. Getting the grant the grant money is cute. It's very cute, but that don't help Pookie and Ray Ray understand that when a hurricane comes, how can they be prepared? Or why is it so hot outside? Or dang, maybe if I can't afford a new filter for my house, I can go get this plant and this plant and it'll cleanse the air for me. Pookie and Ray Ray don't know that because we not going out there and telling them that. We in the lab boosting our egos. So don't even settle on that. But yes, so that was kind of like the moment. And he said, okay, he trusted me, and I changed it. And we had a presentation where everyone did their like elaborate stuff, and I did mine at a as a fifth grade science project. And I just showed the scientific method and the creative um process and how they were the same thing, and how it is our duty as scientists and as people who have the educational component to really actually pay attention to how we're communicating this information to the people who need it. So then I was like, the best way to do that is through rhythm. Rhythm. Like, rhythm. So yes, long story long. No, that is lit. Yeah. That is so dope, but you're right. And this is also why I emphasize like, yes, sustainability, but it's really it's about it's cultural sustainability. The root of all of this, of all of this, is culture. From the colonial aspect all the way to the ways in which we have been healing ourselves and our connection to the land and how we communicate within villages and intercommunally. It's all rooted in culture at the end at the end of the day. Exactly. At the end of the day. Exactly. I love, I love all of this. And again, like so poetic, and it really sounds like something out of a movie. Like, I'm it feels like it. I'm like, it feels like it. Like, it really feels like it. Sometimes I'm like, God, this is really my mission because it gets lonely because I'm like, I try to look up people who are doing it, and it's like, it's always either heavy emphasis on one or heavy emphasis on other. Or then you have people who call themselves, I'm not gonna name no names, but call themselves this, this, this, the scientists. Yeah, but they ain't they not a scientist. Yeah. So it's like you just kind of using the scientist brand, but you was not in a field. Yeah. So it's I'm here with you. Yeah, it's like, bro, you was not in the field. And it's like, you know, at the end of the day, you know, do what you gotta do. We all doing our thing, no judgment. And also it do kind of hit when it's like, I was in the field. Like I was out there in the water taking samples. Like the receipts are there, the debris is there. Like 100%. So that when you do go in rooms that are structured a type of way, yeah, you're able to also be like, but I also, yes, wore a white coat. Yes, and it's very important for me to do that because like recently I was at a movie premiere and they were like introducing me as like this music artist and I love her music, and I was like, and I um I'm a full-time environmental scientist. I use my music to teach kids about the future of Earth. Just so we know this, because I feel like some like the spaces are so separate. Yeah. And I am excited to like pioneer, continue to grow and like endure for the next, for the next generation to be like, oh, okay, I can do both. Like, yeah. I could do both. Like, I could. I don't have to pick. And I think that's that's why I started my company was to be able to, I'm like, okay, this is something that I want to scale. So when my students graduate, when my mentees graduate, I can begin to hire mentees. I can be able to pay people to do both because now I get paid to do both. And it don't get me wrong, it took a minute. It took I had to stay down. I had to stay down. I got a lot of like no's. I got a lot of there's no market for this. I got a lot of like, mm, I would invest, but there's no data for me to know I would get a return because this doesn't, it's not a thing. So I had to like really stay down. And it's like, it's beautiful to begin to start, to start to see, like, okay, this is okay, I just gotta keep going. Mm-hmm. First of all, I love when your accent comes out. When you say data and when you say water, I'm just hella mesmerized. Like, I love Jamaican accents. I love it. And it only I feel like it comes out mainly when you hit a passion point. Like, yeah, yeah. I love it so much. That's so real. That's so real. My black American ass, I just be all like, oh my God. What what would you say your process is your creative process for how you one translate complex scientific ideas for folks to understand, and then turning that into melodies and storytelling for folks to connect emotionally? Like, that's a good question. Because it can be done in a a number of different ways. Like, especially look, I've I'm I've been trying to be on my rap shit recently. Yes. Or my sustainability rap shit. But it's interesting, like trying to do the research and then compartmentalize it into language that folks can resonate with and then try to find a beat. And then, you know, so just wondering what your creative practice is in merging those two identities into one. That's a great question. I think for me, produce as well. So that kind of helps me when it's like, okay, I don't have to like box myself into like an idea or a creation that was made for a specific purpose. Like I can like make a beat around how I feel. But the most important part of my process is making sure that I'm feeling the thing. Because I can't convey or evoke an emotion that I have not felt myself. So I allow myself to be pissed off. I allow myself to be frustrated. I allow myself to be happy. I allow myself to experience the polar reality of being a black American Jamaican woman in this space and in life and existing. I go out, I engage with different cultures. I submerge myself with white people, with Asian people, with Indian people. Because at the end of the day, we all human beings and human species affected by climate chaos. And I just I just experience like very intense. I'm a very intense person. And it is kind of it, I have accepted that the polarizing nature of my existence can either evoke really positive reactions or really negative, and that's okay. Um, and the way that I put that into my music is like once I experience it, I'm like, okay, how can I express this? And then I just start writing down, like I just do brain dumps. Like, what am I feeling? This and this and this and that. And I think of, and then I'll either create, I'll have my producer, we have a very like syner synergy connection. If I'm like in a more writing headspace, he'll produce. Or if I'm in a product production headspace or co-produce, and I just brain dump and I like make it make sense in a way where it's like, don't try to make it so focused on earth and this and this and that, because that's a given. Like, we're on earth, we're all sustainable human beings, like it doesn't have to be so like heavily focused on like the subject of like sustainability, but it can give the girls sustainability through the essence of the message, yeah, right? So for example, uh Shameless Plug, I just finished my album. Yes, and one of the final songs was called Ground Up. And the the inspiration from that song was obviously what's happening in Melissa. And I was like, okay, everyone is, we're hearing all these like these ballads and like these like lament songs, and I'm like, but we're gonna have to build everything from the ground up, and that's lit. Like that's really, really lit. So I'm like, let me make a song or music that I will want to listen to as I'm building something. So the BPM is like, I'm like, okay, when you build it, you want to get into a rhythm. Like, okay, boom. So then I'm like, okay, so let me do something that's catchy, where it's like, if I'm not paying attention and I'm occupied with doing something, I can hear this and I'm motivated. Kind of like similar to my song Garden Grew, where I was like, I created that song for me and my students to be able to garden to. So the so the rhythm is like very like when you're plowing, when you're reaping, when you're sowing, it's like you can grow with the song. And it's kind of similar in that way. So that's kind of how I do it, where I'm like, I do it from a deductive. And this is where my science brain comes in. Like I approach my music in a very scientific way. Interesting. Like I am I approach my music in a very scientific way. It I'm blessed to have an engineer that I've worked with for like nine years and like producers who I've worked with, so they it's when I'm technical, it's not like bruh, like uh, because a lot of creatives are a lot more fluid, I would say, in the way that they do things, not really as much structure, but I'm like formula, formula, plug and chug. Once I got the hook, chorus, pre-hook, verse. Boom. And then it's like, okay, I have all my variables, it has to equal this. So I line my variables up in my song to equal joy, to equal lament, to equal perseverance. So I I balance the equation, and that's how it comes. Balance the equation. Yo. Yes, it has to be balanced. Explain that was genius. It has to be balanced or it won't be consumed properly. So it has to be balanced, which is life too, with any chemical equation. If it's not balanced, it's volatile. It's the same thing with music. If it's not balanced, then it's not received. So you know what I love about the beauty of black folks in particular, and just having these various layered interviews with folks across the diaspora and across different, you know, entry points and interests and industries, yeah, is sort of reflective in what you shared about the context of your music. Is that we can talk about sustainability and the environment, but also all of the parallels of that, right? The the economy, self-healing, ancestors, um, our relationship to ascension. And like there's so many different intersections of what sustainability and environmental justice means to us. And it show it can show up in any form. And that's the beauty of your music. It can be very literal, yeah, but it can also be very abstract to those who are who may not know yet. Exactly. Because to me, I can I can look at something and I'm like, oh, sustainability. And the average person in the space would be like, that has nothing to do with air quality. Right. Right. Right. And so I think that that's just a beautiful point, is that you are merging all of these intersections of what sustainability means on, you know, from a molecular level to an orbit level. Right. Right. And so I love that about you and your work and just how you're sharing a message. Yes. Thank you. Of course, of course. Vice versa. Vice versa. Vice versa. I was like, what I was like, I was like, well, I'm gonna yes, God, like what's like you just connect, like the it's even dialoguing with you and like what you're doing and the platform that you're you have cultivated and that God has used. Like, I just wanted to big up you and what you're doing because it's very necessary. Like, this is a key component of the formula, which is retelling our stories that were taken and told to us, not by us. You know what I'm saying? And so what you're doing is like you're like the modern, the new modern day like orator. Like you're you like, and this is an ancestral practice because we are oratorical people. We pass things down vocally through our like through storytelling. So what you're doing is so necessary when it comes to like the shift of intergenerational communication and retelling our stories for us by us. So I want to just big up the very important components that you are playing in the formula of sustainability holistically, and it's just it's amazing. I'm I'm very, very, very, very, very humbled and appreciative of the moment that we're sharing right now. I just want to say that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yes, I received that. Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

This uh I think when we find uh callings and and we're affirmed in our our intentions and we figure out the pathway, it's such a beautiful and momentous thing. And it shouldn't be taken lightly. And I think part of this podcast experience, storytelling, narrating experience is being able to see that in the folks who I'm speaking with and give them their flowers while they're here. Yes. Even if their journey shifts 10 years from now, in this moment, giving them their their their flowers for real, like on a real cultural sisterhood, brotherhood, non-binary hood, whatever the hood is, um and just really marinating in folks who are elevating in their journey. Like, so I receive that deeply, and of course, the same goes to you. It's funny because I've been following you for a little while, and there were several people who DM'd me, and they're like, Oh, you gotta get her on the pod. And I'm like, I know, I know that is so funny, guys. And it's like, it's so fun to almost speak to the people who don't have, you know, hundreds and of thousands of followers, millions of followers. I'm finding the most enriching connection with folks who aren't, you know, a standardized influencer but are influencing. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's like, uh, taking my literal breath away, which is hard to do because I'm a Leo. And we and we have a lot of breath to give and a lot of things to say. So taking my breath away is no, you know, it's hard to do. That's real. So thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. Can I ask you? I don't know if this is a personal question, but you did mention Hurricane Melissa, and I just wanted to check on you to know how you are doing and feeling about Hurricane Melissa in the most authentic way, if you don't mind me asking and uh, you know, invading that personal space. I think that for me, it has been a very definitely like because Melissa occurred while I was in Ghana. And I called my people before um someone which I still haven't heard back from before. And so I think that it's one of those very humbling experiences where it feels like you're really not sovereign. Like there's only one sovereign God, and it it's a test of faith. It's a test of faith where it's like, do you believe everything is his plan, even when his plan feels tumultuous, feels brings lament, brings grief, brings sorrow. Like there's a dual nature to God that a lot of uh people, specifically in like the western area, do not discuss. That I feel like as diasporans, we all experience in a different way. And so for me, it's just been a test of my faith. Like really keeping my family there covered, like praying, sending what I can, um, creating through it. Like that's how I made the song. I'm like, okay, do what you can. You can make music that they can listen to, like call. Um, when you have the fun, send it. When you can go, go. If you know someone who is going, support them. Have the conversations, do the dialogue, and also I serve a God that is forward facing. So let's keep in. We're resilient people. This isn't like, you know, the first or the last. Um, but from a environmental chaos point of view, I got I was pissed. I was I'm very pissed off. Like I had a lot of anger. I still do that I'm I'm working through because it is the people in the Caribbean, it is the people who are on these islands, it is the people who are at these ocean points, it is the people who are in these geographic locations who don't emit most of the things that are affecting us, who are directly impacted by these things. And it's it's it's one of those things that when I was researching this six, seven years ago, it seemed like it was so far away. But Melissa put into perspective, this is here now. It's here now, it's here now, it's here now, and it's it's it's not going anywhere, it's only getting worse, and not even from like a pessimistic point of view, but from a reality point of view. And for like two years, I tried this, I got very sad when it came to environmental. I feel like every environmentalist goes through that like period of like, bro, no one cares. But now, and I, you know, I'm gonna say it, I'm I'm I'm there's a part of me that's kind of like relieved that some of these things are happening at the levels that they're happening because now it's in people's faces. They can't, and with social media, you can't ignore this. Because it's it's impacting you, it's affecting you. And I feel like America has de-humanized and desensitized us to violence and disaster. So because things don't directly affect us in certain ways, there's a level of detachment. And with this storm, I saw that shift. Like I'm seeing people, emotions being evoked. I'm seeing some of my homegirls who got Jamaican bulls. Like, damn, yeah, he really, he really going through it. Like, hey, let me actually look what's going on. Like, yeah, girl, like, yeah. So it's like it's it's it's beautiful to kind of see people come together to help. And also the conversations that I'm seeing that are being had, even within my family. My auntie, she works in the government with hurricane preparedness. And so um, she's over there and she stays in Kingston. Big up Joyce, my auntie Joyce. I'm gonna show her this. Come on, Auntie Joyce. And um it was hard because when I was in Ghana, I lost my grandmother. And so my Jamaican grandmother. So it's like as Melissa is going on, there's there's this also this point of like people are not being able to properly bury their new ancestors. People are not being are not being able to properly send them off. We have to WhatsApp her in to a service in New York, and we can't have our homegoing service properly. And there's a bunch of families over there who are experiencing this. So I think that this is really shining a light on the many different aspects of disaster that we don't talk about. And um, so yeah, it it makes me just feel it makes me feel like a human being. And at the end of the day, like I am we all are just one of thousands of species who are in this ginormous ecosystem of a living organism called Earth. And it's it's humbling. It's really, really humbling. I don't feel anything, I feel like all that to say the the if I could put it into one word, just humbled, very humbled, very like you a human, we human, God sovereign, we not thank you for your vulnerability and just sharing that and and definitely sorry for the loss of your grandma and hoping that you had the spaciousness to welcome her as a new ancestor. Um and I think I share your sentiment in terms of being pissed off that black people um around the globe, black bodies, um, black intellect have continuously been sacrifice zone for um unsustainability. Yeah. And and echoing that with black and brown cultures around the globe. Um, but I I do agree that there needed to be specific moments for folks to see, for folks to open the wound and see the reality of what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

I think that that is unfortunately a necessary part of um breaking the conditioning system and figuring out a playbook to build upon. Exactly. Um, it just will always it'll it'll just always piss me off though. Yeah, to be sacrificed in that process. Right. Yeah. Um and and the in terms of, you know, what you lifted up earlier, I think there's a similar sentiment in terms of, and we're not gonna get, you know, OD into politics, but I think there's just there's a similar sentiment when we're thinking about the president, right? Certain presidential candidates would have kept us sweeping the BS under the rug. This president, if it didn't open the wound and reveal some of the realities the first time, it definitely is now. Yeah. Right. And sometimes, and folks don't hate me for this, but sometimes these things are necessary, or else we will never be able to understand the politics of reality and then begin the process of reimagining. Exactly. And so that's where we're at. Yes, that's where we're at. You know, where we're at, the opening bar of my song Ground Up is it's always darkest before the dawn, right before you see the light. The moment you want to stop is the moment you need to fight. Why you say it though and not sing it? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm about to say I was look, I was waiting for you to break into Whitney's things. I respect it, I respect it. And it's like, it's it's it's kind of like to your point with what we're enduring, is it's it always feels like this right before it get it turned up for real. Like if we just go back into history of like where Jamaican people originated from, from the Akkan people in West Africa, right? It was it felt dark right whenever they were taken from those ships and they were brought from West Africa and pulled up to this island. And then the revolt happened, and now we have here we are here now, we have a rich history of Jamaican people and independence and knowing that we can decolonize and like there's so many things that were birthed from like darkness. And I think that um with this situation where we are in now historically, as we're all sharing a moment on earth, it's very similar. It's very similar, like you know, you know, it's it's it's it's a shared experience, and a lot of people aren't able to dissociate as easily as they typically would because it's in your face. Yeah. And you have people like me and you who go say and do the thing. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? 100%. We're gonna say the thing, we're gonna do the thing. 100%. If I gotta be the one that you pissed off at, cool. At least you acknowledge that why you pissed off. Yeah. A win is a win. And then they circle back around and they're like, oh, I get it. It's hard. Because I remember there was a period, even in my family, but they were like, why are you always talking about what's happening on like da-da-da-da-da? Like, like, can we just eat? Like, da-da-da-da-da. As soon as something happened, who they calling? I got food, I know where to go, I got the seeds, I got the crank up stuff. Like, as soon as something happened, they like, oh, and all the all these things are happening. They're like, okay, Jordan, she's not as cuckoo as we thought. Right, that part. You gotta go to look, the black sheep are needed in this world. You always gotta go through that big cuckoo phase. And I feel like now with the, you know, with old dudes who, you know, running, you know, the office. And let's be clear, I'm not advocating for him. I don't know if it came off like that. No, no, no, no. I hope it's not an advocacy for him at all. I'm not advocating for him, and I'm not joyous that he's in office. Like we just make sure that's clear. It's very clear. Yeah, okay. And we can acknowledge the reality of polarity when it comes to catalyzing conversation. Period. Period. We can we can lead that in. Period, period. Well, look, I'm uh I feel like we glazed by your organization. Wait uh wake your neighbors up. Wake your neighbor? Wake your neighbors up. And again, I think I wanted to just give you some additional flowers for starting your organization. Thank you. What would you say is the most beautiful thing that emerged from your organization? Wow. So the most beautiful thing that emerged from Wake Your Neighbors of Why New Worldwide was is um the community that has been revealed because it started as a collective of four, then two, then I was me, because it just took a shift. Like it initially started off as like a production program where I was doing like shows and we were shooting content and taking, we were out we were offering professional services to underprivileged communities. So black and brown artists and businesses who could not afford professional work that I had the credentials to do. I was like, okay, I want to use this to serve them. And then it took a shift into the green space as I started to grow. And I'm like, okay, there are black and brown spaces in the sustainable green field that need their stories told, that are either nonprofits or just getting started, that just don't have the resources and the funding because they're out here doing the work. So they don't got time to think about telling the story. Yeah. And so that's how I got connected with black sustainability. So I do I'm the marketing and communications specialist for Black Sustainability Inc. contract. Yes. So big up black sustainability. He's got the biggest network, yes, so big. Biggest black sustainability. We are the biggest black and green black work, exactly African practitioners. Yes, yes, yes. And of African descent. So um that has been beautiful because how we got connected was like I was doing this very specific niche thing, and they are the largest global network of African practitioners or practitioners of African descent around the diaspora. And I'm like, y'all's story needs to be like super told. And it's beautiful because with me making the music that I make and everything, I can offer like royalty free, like music. Like, I'm like, it's it's mine, I own it. And so I make music to like, you know what I'm saying? And so it has that's probably been the best thing. I feel like our collaboration and just helping people know what black sustainability just does is so important because I'm like there's so much resources and we have 12 industry houses and we have all these programs that are hands-on and we're equipping black people to be able to get their certification through our G Pro program. We have our Afroecology programs where you can learn how to garden. We have our shoeways so you can learn how to deconstruct. It's so many things. So I'm like, that's been the best, most fruitful thing from Wainu is just seeing the worldwide component. Because I've been able through my company, I've been able to go to Anguilla, tell their story. St. Martin, tell their story. Yes. Ghana. And so just really being able to just serve our people. That's all I want to do. I was gonna serve. You want to hear a funny story? Is that this podcast or platform, even before it was a podcast, was called Black Sustainability. Wow. And the Black Sustainability Network, they DM'd me and they was like, nah, we've been working because I had the Instagram account, I think, for a very long time, perhaps around the time that they got activated. But sis reached out to me and was like, yo, you know, this is what we're doing, you know, to it was a lot of conflict resolution. But at the end of the day, I researched what they were about and was like, of course, y'all have it. I'm gonna change the name. And I think just a behind the scenes conversation of how we need to love on each other in these spaces.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Um and even at the forefront, there's often and too often a conversation around conflict and you know, fighting and resistance.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

And I was like, you know what? We both don't want the smoke. And we both are literally doing parallel um work to sustain our communities. So y'all have it, and I'm gonna come up with a another name that and so we're here. So I was like, oh, I was like, why do I know black sustainability? That's why. And they were very, very sweet at the time um I was pregnant and reached out to them to find a doula and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. But yeah, it was it was a a beautiful exchange. Yeah, and I I just remembered that little random stuff. That is so like everything is so interconnected. Yes, it is what like wow. I love the work that they're doing. Yes. And even if you when you mentioned the doula space, that's a part of our holistic health industry house. It's connecting black women to do las and midwives.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Because absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Absolutely. I love that. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love, I love when I hear and see us um problem solving and when I hear and see us collaborate because there's so much discourse around that not happening in our spaces. So yeah. And I guess to round out this beautiful exchange, yeah, I'd love to know maybe I guess this is more of a macro question. What role do you believe creative science communication will play in just shaping a more equitable future? Because you are a queen in the creative science communication space. Just letting that be known. Where do you see the future of that space? The future of that space being something that's way more prominently offered as a paid role and position. Yes, I need to do it. Um, yes, because it's one of those things where it's like people subconsciously benefit from the work that we do, companies and people, but like there's no roles in company specifically for like what we do outside of like marketing. And so, because it's it's so much deeper than like marketing. Like we're talking about marketing, we're talking about branding, we're talking about communications, we're talking about public relations, we're talking about creating, we're talking about storytelling, we're talking about like marketing has such a western, like sales-based, yeah, you know, yeah, connotation. So it's like that's what I see. I see it being like a thing.

unknown 48:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Where it's not like, oh, dang, you no, like she's doing this, she's doing this, she's doing this. Where it's like it's a c and we see more musicians leaning into their advocacy. I see, I see that. I see more musicians being like, okay, my music has impact. Like, let me talk about something that like matters. Yeah. So not that you're not. Your feelings don't matter, but like I love that.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

I mean, yeah, marketing, they box this idea of marketing. And you say we touch so many people and organizations, baby. We touch the world. Yes. We touch the world in every aspect, every intersection, every value chain from every aspect of localized and global supply chain within any organization and within everybody's life. Period. Absolutely. Period. And trying to contextualize that into a leadership position 100%. Yes. That's that I that's a beautiful future forward um perspective. Yes. Yes. That gets paid. Agree. That gets paid. Agree. Emphasis on that, because eh, like quarter sessions ain't cheap. You know what I'm saying? Girl. New subscriptions for Canva and all this stuff add up. We gon' we gonna get to it because financial sustainability is a huge conversation, especially for storytellers and black like protecting black IP and how our narrative, our history, our stories, our education is the the cornerstone of every aspect of moving build movement building. So financing, what does financial sustainability look like for leaders in this space? Oh, yeah. Yes. That's a goal of mine to really tap into um being a catalyst for that. Exactly. Because the key component of sustainability is internal perpetuation of resources, and you need those resources. So what are we doing? We we figuring it out. We moving, we're gonna be. We moving, we moving. We have we know we we we planting seeds. You feel me? Listen, listen, listen, listen. But yeah, Jordan, I I deeply appreciate this time with you and just appreciate you as a creative media and creative human that's inspiring and that's fun, and bringing music and environmentalness and science into an empowering space and helping people. I think one of the profound things about you is that you're waking up uh curiosity, yeah, especially young people. Yeah, and so keeping curious curiosity alive, I think is is that ain't nothing. I like that. Keep curiosity alive, but curiosity are you gonna be strong? Come on, that's how we can do the next song. Let's go. I know you got an album out. I know you or your album is coming out, but but we can work on a mixtape. Y'all heard it here. Y'all heard it here. Look, don't be surprised when we come out with a single that is popping. Because Mama Dom is starting to rap. I'm goofy to y'all. You feel me? But we look, we get. Oh, say less. We'll be sending you beats. Uh, okay, girl. Seriously, we gotta talk offline. Yes. No, for real, for all. I'm dead ass. Yes, me too. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Glad we dead ass. But but to close out our session today, um, what I'm doing is a sustainability soundtrack this season. So I'm gonna ask you a couple of rapid fire questions that's gonna help build the sustainability soundtrack. Are you ready? I'm ready. Okay. Well, hey, stay ready so you never have to get ready. Um, what song is bringing you joy? My song, Garden Groove. I know that's right. You better claim your song. Okay. What song is bringing you healing when you're having challenging times? My song, day by day. It's okay, truth. This is I listen to, I'm sorry, I listened to my music. No, but this will be great to incorporate your music into the soundtrack that we've physically end up making. Okay. What song, excuse me, sounds like sustainability? My song, motion mantra. Yes, yes, yes. I'm here for the self-proclamation.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Nah, but that's what's up. And Jordan, tell everybody how they can stay connected with you and learn about your org and all the ways in which you are killing it right now. All right, so you guys can stay connected with me. I'm on all socials at Jordan Just, J-O-R-D-A-N-J-U-S-T. Jordan just like your photo. Jordan just commented like that's that's what it means. And then my organization is Wake Your Neighbors Up. So our Instagram is Why New Worldwide. Um, you can find us on all platforms. My website is Jordanayana.com. And uh Yeah, you can hear me. I'll be responding sometimes if I can. Uh my email is all in there and link trees, all the things, y'all. But my music is on all platforms, and the album is on the way. So I know that's right. Y'all stay tuned for the album that is on the way, and that is a rap. Composting card in the cold.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Uh we've turned nothing to gold since the birth of our soul is to grain the love. Black is more than flesh and bone. Planted deep in our cold, and we build a fruit. Yeah, they wanna strike some bone, and I'll press on cold after all we bave. Just the texture of a crown crown, crown. We pass it on today.