Tech Unboxed
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Tech Unboxed
From Policies To Proof: How BBD Scales ESG, DEI, And Transformation Across Regions
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Meet The Global Panel
SPEAKER_01Tech Unboxed with BBD.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to another Tech Unboxed. And today we got a very, very special version because we have many people around us in this podcast. So can I do a round of introductions? Can I maybe start with Sylvie?
SPEAKER_02Yes, hi Kun. Yeah, my name is Sylvie Cotton. I'm based in the UK BBD office, uh based in London. And my responsibilities are um operational uh European uh director. Um and including in in that included in that are ESG and um CSR DEI responsibilities.
SPEAKER_00Oh very exciting. And we also Precious.
SPEAKER_03Hi there, Precious Mgmo here. I am uh currently at the South Africa office, our Joe Berg Hub. I manage transformation, employment equity, DEI, and a little bit of ESG for the BBD group.
SPEAKER_00Welcome as well.
SPEAKER_01And last but not least. So my name is Rakshay, I'm a part of BBD India, and I'm working as an executive for testing services, and I usually handle uh testing projects within BBD uh in all regions, and I'm also a part of uh CSR committee. So in India we call it as uh CSR committee, which is pretty much similar like ESG.
SPEAKER_00That's what I know at the study in this introduction. A lot of abbreviations have been put to the table. So can you maybe bring them a little bit together? So I heard ESG, I heard D I, I heard PEE, I heard I heard many others. So what what brings it all together?
SPEAKER_03Sustainability and equity.
SPEAKER_01And in uh India we we call CSR, which is uh kind of corporate social responsibility that each corporate registered company has. So since PVD India is also a registered company, so we have called as CSR, and uh every company needs to have a committee, a CSR committee, which is kind of ESG group, you can call it here, so which is pretty much similar. The committee acts on behalf of the company, and uh they do certain kinds of uh you know EHG initiatives or CSR initiatives, you can call it as.
SPEAKER_00And maybe back to precious, like how do you call it in within BBD?
SPEAKER_03We choose to call it transformation because I feel like we we affect quite a lot of areas and we're trying to move forward. So transforming and changing, um, and change management, I guess, is what my focus is.
What ESG, DEI, And CSR Really Mean
SPEAKER_00Okay. Now I'm based in Europe, and uh Europe for a while has been very active on the sustainability side, the ESG side. So I'm very curious how how Sylvie is actually feeling that in the market in the UK.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Thanks, Kun. I think I think it's really just going back to your previous point, uh I think it's really important to clarify what we're talking about, like what the ESG is, because often when people hear ESG, they just think it's the environment. But actually, it's so much more than that. It's it's there's an environmental aspect, of course. So how we as a company both impact the environment and the environments us. Then there's the social side, which is how our company manages our people, um, how we have relationships with our clients, with the society as a whole, and then the governance side, which often kind of gets forgotten a little bit. So that's around accountability and how a company is run, and um, you know, what how the board is composed, etc. So I think I think you're right to just ask about those those um those short names for things. So it's not necessarily just about cleaning up the the environment. But um yes, back to your question, how does that work in the in the in the UK and the EU?
From Policies To Proof And Portals
SPEAKER_00EU, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Um I think what's changed a lot recently and the conversations we're having before it was just we just had to prove that we had a policy in place. It was almost marketing for ESG. Yeah, yeah, we've we've got a balanced workforce, we do social things, but now clients are looking for proof. So they want actual proof through data, through um portals that are now in place, um, and through sort of accreditation. So we're finding that a lot more that clients are looking for that much earlier in the relationship we might have with them. So that's we're seeing that in the UK, um, especially in government in the UK, any work we do with them um and across Europe for for our clients.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it's no longer a tick the box and the RFP, but it's literally a program that you need to run and with proof points. And I think that if you look at the various taxonomies that came in in place in many places in the world, I mean that's exactly what the taxonomy is bringing, right? It's bringing definitions on which you work against. Now curious to know if if if this whole technical and legal thing with taxonomies, how did that change your personal view for ESG? Because ESG still is something very personal sometimes, although it became much more mechanical because of everything around. But what does that mean from a personal point of view? Has something changed?
SPEAKER_02Um, I from my point of view, I think it's about a long-term view now. You know, it was, it was, it was seemed to be more an immediate thing that we were trying to fix. But with um the rules, the regulatory um enforcements that are being put into place, it's more about how do I, how do how do we as a company impact, and me as an employee, how do we have the impact we have in the environment that doesn't then limit someone else's impact or relationship with the environment in the future? So we talk about 2030, 2050 net zero rates. So it's really it's it's more a long-term game. It's not just what's happening in the you know in the current climate.
SPEAKER_00Any other feelings and views from anyone else?
SPEAKER_03I guess um on my end, I look at it in terms of especially in South Africa. I think ESG is almost like an extension to what transformation is already trying to give us, especially when it comes to the social impact. I mean, the S is for the social impact on ESG and for us here and transformation to B E to B exec, does have a huge uh um element that is actually surrounding the social and how do we bring people in from socially assisting and how do we turn that into some sort of skill where people end up bringing in the skill into the business?
SPEAKER_00If I may ask, because um Silvio mentioned it's about proof points. So, how actually are you running this uh transformational efforts out of South Africa for what is a global business at BPD?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, we're responding locally to uh a lot of the requirements for um for our ESG um environment because we have to. So for example, there's certain policies you know that we need in place in the UK. They will be different. It's slightly more regulatory in in EU. And then in South Africa, there there aren't um the same regulatory needs yet, but I think BBD has an advantage because we have that EU um influence, and so we can be ahead of the curve and um in South Africa and have all that already in place before it starts being a regulatory requirement in South Africa.
SPEAKER_00Axe, if I may ask on your end, um because you're based in India, yes. And when you when you introduced yourself, you you said that you were a test engineer. So I'm sure you could come up with live examples how you actually helped ESG within the company.
Personal Stakes And Long-Term View
SPEAKER_01So over here, as I mentioned, it is CSR actually that we call it as, so which includes everything. So you can either contribute into sustainability, environment, or growth of uh particular sectors. So it's up to you. It is also a kind of uh, I would say a kind of compliance for the company registration that every year you need to invest a specific amount on the CSR part, but uh at BBD India the CSR philosophy uh centers on uh you know empowering education mainly and enabling a sustainable future for a uh you know a set of uh users. So the company sees social impact as a uh integral uh to business success and focusing on uh you know uh uplifting the underprivileged communities to partnerships, uh educational support. Uh so that's a kind of so we believe CSR is not just a uh a compliance exercise for us, it is kind of a commitment that uh that will create a long-lasting change in the society, I feel.
SPEAKER_00So that is something CSR for us so really embedded within the culture of people.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And are there some examples that you can share with the audience on what have you done very concretely?
SPEAKER_01So uh recently what we have done is we have partnered closely with an organization called Dilhasa Foundation, it is uh India-based uh organization which is close to uh the registered office of uh BBD Idria. And uh they are having tie-up with certain government schools which are having lack of infrastructure, so they have a lack of attendance because uh the infrastructure is not properly designed by government. So, what we do is we have donated certain uh accessories, furniture stuff to them so that they can uh you know at least uh make them feel comfortable in the school and they can learn. So it is more of like uh you know giving them a kind of uh classroom furniture, a clean drinking water system, uh, a kind of digital learning support. So we also provided uh e-learning labs to the students so that they can they can learn basics of computers and other things. Also, we have recently supported one orphanage uh for the learning and other things, as well as they have certain state level uh players as well as in cricket and football. So we also supporting their uh uh healthcare routine somehow. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well these these are really nice examples. So I would say keep on coming because that's what probably people like to hear. It's like how can you place yeah?
Local Realities, Global Ambition
SPEAKER_01There is one more which I haven't mentioned yet because it is still I can say in the incubation, it's still not complete. So we have found a group of uh you know students, they wanted to upskill themselves on certain uh specific courses, so we also supporting them uh for a kind of uh retainer uh kind of shift so that they'll get all the courses and material for three years. So BVDI supports them for the education, and uh in return, we do also check their uh uh scores and everything. So we need to understand whether they they they're doing uh whatever is required. So that is something also we have recently started engaging with.
SPEAKER_00It it sounds that you're in a in a truly transformation and you're helping out other communities to to achieve something much bigger than just uh just the technical delivery, I would say. I'm still a little bit uh curious to learn a little bit more because at the end of the day, as you mentioned in the beginning, ESG has a level of compliance in it, it is an obligation. So, how how do you balance those two um pressures? The fact that you have compliance on one hand and authentic transformation on the other end.
SPEAKER_03Um I think when when transformation becomes the DNA, it becomes part of the business strategy, it's easy to move, easy to move from just ticking the box to actual transformation. And I think the way we've set up transformation and ESP, ESG, sorry, for BBD, is we trying to connect the dots between what we're currently doing locally, which we're doing very, very well, to global ambition. This is where we want to get to. So we already have some local progress. How do we move that into like global recognition, which Sylvie is um is in charge of? Um and also I think we don't look at them in silos, right? I mean, I'm talking ESG, I'm talking triple BE, I'm talking equity and inclusion. Literally all these systems work hand in hand. Um and at the end of the day, that's how sustainability is achieved when we totally move away from it being a checkbook exercise. Um to add on to that, it's also ensuring that people sitting in certain rooms do have a voice and we're not just doing it for ticking the box. So if we're talking um diversity, everyone that's sitting in the room is diverse because we want to get different inputs from different people. So essentially in us running the business, we get to link the two, not the two, the three. All those elements that we mentioned are linked.
SPEAKER_00But I'm glad you mentioned running the business because I think running the business is still very important here as well. So, how would you then balance that that running the business with that obligation as working for PBD and being a human being, Sylvie?
SPEAKER_02I think it's a it's a slow and steady growth, you know. Um, I think we're looking at continuous improvement there in terms of, you know, are the data that we gather, the projects that we're doing. Um, and I think um, you know, as um Akshay and Brescia said, that ticks tick bock tick box uh place where we were before needs to move on now. And actually it's it needs to form um, all those elements need to form a part of the company. Um, in its and we've always looked at it from a groundroots up type scenario where we didn't want to just have the fancy policies and things written written down, but we wanted proof behind that. And we've we've always managed to do that. Um so you become like who who we are with the evidence as opposed to what potentially we we publish. And and there's an interesting term, another term called greenwashing. So greenwashing is when you say you're incredibly environmentally friendly, but actually the proof is not there. And so there are penalties now for that. Um the big example is McDonald's, who who brought out these paper uh straws. So they replaced all their papers, their plastic straws with paper straws, but actually the paper straws weren't recyclable because they had a plastic uh internal layer to them. And but they made this whole play about and this big marketing um play about how wonderfully they were operating in an environmental um uh marketing scenario. So so we we we want to avoid that at all costs. There's also something called green hushing. I don't know if you know that term.
SPEAKER_00Um I heard about green bleaching though.
India’s CSR In Action
SPEAKER_02Oh, right. Oh well, well, green hushing is is a thing that's come from the the US because obviously with the Donald Trump era, he's very much against the whole ESG DEI um environment and the or or movement, I suppose. Um, but a lot of companies in the US are international and global companies. So they have offices in the the Netherlands, in Belgium, in the UK, you know, wherever it might be, where there are regulatory and mandatory um audits that happen. So what a lot of companies are are saying in the US, they're saying, yeah, we're not really that big on DEI, um, you know, on ESG, but they're continuing the work that they started doing before the Trump administration came in, under names like, you know, they're calling it sort of corporate responsibility or enterprise risk. They're not actually naming it. And that's what that's how you define green hushing. So we're not doing that. We're we're proud of um our green, our our ESG, our triple B um credentials, and we want to talk about it.
SPEAKER_00No, and that that really shows off when uh actually was giving the examples because many of your examples also go back to the core of BBD. So helping and activating people within the tech industry. Is that a deliberate choice, uh Precious, to do it this way?
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, it it has been. Absolutely. Um, we are not we are not responding to any negativity or anything. I think the one thing that BBD does understand, though, is that their people are important. Uh people as BBD globally are important to us. And um looking at where we are in in the stats, um, our millennials, is it the millennials or Gen Zs? Gen Zs actually want to work for companies that are compliant. So when we're looking at the triple P, the triple Ps and the bottom lines, it's it's very, very important um to strategically make sure we include ESG and Triple BE in the growth of the business. Um I'd like to also just mention our partnerships, I think which makes this work so well because in a lot of these initiatives, we're partnering up with great organizations that are already doing awesome, awesome work either in skills development or in the in the um in different communities. Um I do want to also highlight that one of our biggest partnerships are around upskilling internal and external people. So we have the big major ones would be we work with companies, organizations like Omuzi within code. So these organizations give opportunities to kids that wouldn't necessarily have had opportunities to get into university. So maybe finances and and, which also make sure we touch on the social impact. These are trained, and then when they come into BBD, they get employment. So we don't only look at university graduates, we also open up our doors to all the other um skilled people that may not have had certain um opportunities. I guess socially, then we're looking at different communities that don't have access to, currently don't have access to um to connectivity and tech, especially in our rural areas. We have, I mean, there's numerous examples of what we're doing. We implement computer labs and and um in under-resourced communities. We've actually done a very good one in um the Gary Hut community. I don't know if you've heard of it. No. Uh we're actually taking some kids from high schools and putting them through online um learnerships for them to access online jobs. So that has been a great turnout, actually. So there's quite a few examples, quite a few things that BBD does. But I do also want to note that maybe communicating our efforts is also one of the challenges because there's a lot that we do. But I feel like we may not have a way of directly communicating it properly, because if it was well communicated, I think our employees would really it will make a big impact to them, knowing that they're actually working for a company that globally recognizes sustainability outside of just the profits.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think communication is indeed important uh because you also want to uh sort of engage with other people, not only from your own company, but from other places too. But I thought I thought I saw on your website that you have a program that's called BBD CARES. Everything that you just mentioned, is this part of that program?
SPEAKER_03Or is that the okay? Yes, an element of that goes into that because I think the BBD cares usually looks at the social side. Okay.
SPEAKER_00If each and every one of you would have one thing to put on the table to accelerate the impact across the business, what would that be?
Balancing Compliance And Authentic Change
SPEAKER_01So I would say uh this particular culture of uh contributing towards society has to be a part of not only for the CSR limitation or EHG limitation, it has to be for global. So each company needs to have a certain uh kind of uh missions that okay, so we will be doing it for environment sustainability or we will be doing it for for a specific cause, but you know, and everybody also needs to support that internally in the employees. So uh I would say it has to be a kind of uh collaborative activity within the within the company. Uh, it shouldn't be limited to only CSR committee. So that is something I would say, and it has to be purposeful.
SPEAKER_03I think on my end, I'm gonna go back onto my communication point. I think I know BBD cars is it's still quite a new concept. We didn't have it prior. So I guess we're already moving towards communicating um to our employees and what we're doing. But I think if they were aware, fully aware of exactly what um or what we're doing, also there could be a bit of a shift in terms of you know that a culture change. We we start to get a bit more sensitive, you know, to sense we get sensitized as a business. And um yeah, but I think communication for me is is huge. I'm glad we headed towards that direction.
SPEAKER_00That's great to hear. And Sylvie, I have actually have another question for you. What's one moment of of the time that you spent that you want to make a pause and say to yourself, I feel damn proud about this?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I've got one of those.
SPEAKER_00Um, so that's probably multiple.
SPEAKER_02Um, we recently um were working on a proposal with a company um in the Netherlands, and um in order to um engage with them, we had to do almost like an audit of our ESG, our DEI, and our CSR. Um, and this was one of the first steps along uh an RF, you know, request for proposal and engagement with them. Um so what is um what's in the um environment now are portals. So you sign up to a portal, it's an independent portal, you give them a lot of data, you fill in a like a lot of questions, a lot of forms, and they give you a rating, which you can use um certainly in the Netherlands across different uh companies or across Europe. So we've been working on those um portals. The one that I'm particularly talking about is called Eco VADIS, and we had a very short amount of time to fill this in, but we were actually awarded, it's always last minute, but we are actually awarded a bronze medal. And at first I thought, okay, bronze is not very good for our so this was for our ESG corporate um credentials, but actually that placed us among the top 23% of companies that were assessed by by this company, Ecovatis, in in the pretty in the in the previous 12 months. So that was a a pretty good result, I think, for a an evolving company who's who's getting to grips with with ESG. You've got to remember the whole ESG uh environment is a little bit like the Wild West, you know, there hasn't been regulation for a while. People can say, oh yeah, we're doing this, you know, where's all the conf, that's where all the confusion has come from. But what we're seeing now is things are more regulated and you've got to engage early on, um, that actually, you know, participating in these portals and in the these audits are really good. I think another point I just wanted to make is as a software development company, we have to see opportunities in these areas as well, not just um to fulfill uh what our clients want and what our employees want, as Precious mentioned, but also to sell work. So we have worked with clients who wanted to put together an internal ESG uh dashboard. Um we did that with the client clients in the in the US. So there are also opportunities for us as a tech company that we must be aware of and that we must make the most of. And I think we put that back on our employees as much as the responsibility for being uh sustainable and and ESG compliant, but they need to be looking for opportunities um when they are on client sites or when they're talking with prospective clients.
SPEAKER_00So, first of all, a big congratulations because having a bronze medal in this is really nice, especially if you bring it in perspective. Now, when I'm listening to this conversation, I hear pay it forward, I hear purpose, and I hear how you practically make it happen. Is that sort of the the thread that you want to bring across with this podcast?
Avoiding Greenwashing And Greenhushing
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Absolutely. I would I I I think also on on my end, we would like to tell a story. You know, we like telling a story about where it started and and and where it is. And I know you didn't ask me this question, but I'd like to tell you what excites me in this journey. I think for me, it's seeing it seeing the flow complete, seeing the map, seeing the puzzle come together is is is exciting for me. I'm talking, looking at a disadvantaged community where we come in and implement a computer, a computer hub. Here's a high school student who currently has no idea what they're gonna do with their lives. We're in the rural areas, I don't know what I'm going to do. Now we we we empower those computer hubs and we get the kids inspired. Now one of them gets so inspired they want to get into tech. Now finance it. How are they gonna finance their studies? We come in and we give them a bursary. We give them a bursary, they get their honors, they get their masters, they join us. They're already employed. So you've taken just one person in that community through a whole five-step journey into getting them employed, getting them in this industry, getting them forming part of the economy. It's amazing. That's how we see it.
SPEAKER_00It's giving me goosebumps, to be honest. And you know what? We're almost at the end of this podcast. So I still have one question in my pocket, which is about how would you like to um engage BBD employees, but potentially also others? Because I hear so many stories about others. So, where can they start? How do they get in touch with all of you?
SPEAKER_02I I think it's important to say it's it's okay to start small because that's how BBD has started. You don't have to do some fabulous uh uh movement or program. Um, for example, our our Dutch team um recently did a uh a litter pickup, you know, and that when things start coming from the employees themselves, and it's not necessarily that you are enforcing them to do or it's part of their performance or whatever, I think that's when you think, oh, that's that's really nice, that's good. When people are volunteering um and and doing things off their own bat, that that's a proud moment. But um I think starting small and suggesting something, I think the BBD is always open to suggestions. There might be some funding there to help. Um externally with our with our clients, you know, we try and match what they're doing, and often they they request that, you know, we need to be good, a good supplier. So having that um in the back of your mind as you engage with with clients is also important.
SPEAKER_00I have a last question for all of you. So think about it wisely. What the answer is. I just want to have a very crispy answer to it. If you would be an ESG superhero, what would be the superpower that you want to bring to the table? And I like to start with precious because I think I already know what she's gonna say.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think um maybe can I be the last one? I feel like I need to think about it.
SPEAKER_02I've got one, I've got one. It would be because we always tell the truth, that we we we show um the good things we're doing with and they're evidenced, and so that we're always demonstrating so so a truth shield, I suppose you could say, if we were superheroes. That we always had to tell the truth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say healing power uh to strengthening the communities from inside out. Because you know, uh probably every year we might be able to do one percent of it. But there are so many communities, there are so many places uh where you can, you know, it's more of like a reach and but healing is the power that I would say if I'm a superhero, this power I need.
SPEAKER_00Building a very, very nice superhero freshly the word, the last word is yours.
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, I think for me is to I don't know what I'd call it in one word, um, what superhero that would be, but to get people to feel accountable, to get people not to sit and relax and and wait for the business to do something. If only you could, you know, tell them that it starts with the man in the mirror, that the little bit contributes to a you know, to a bigger strategy. You can start by saying, valid volunteering. I want to mentor someone, anything that's going to be forward movement for the business. I think it's just people taking accountability. That maybe the triple Ps must start from a personal space, and then we, you know, we we just uh osmost them throughout the business.
SPEAKER_00I really appreciate this uh EST superhero power talk at the end of this conversation. So thank you very much also for sharing your stories. Thank you very much also to the audience, and please stay tuned for more tech unboxed on this channel. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Kun. Bye.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Koon.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you, bye.