The Greater Call Podcast - Episode 1: Dream Again

Welcome to The Greater Call Podcast—a place where we dive into life and leadership lessons from the greatest leaders of all time. In this debut episode, hosts Mark Immelman and Pastor Kyle Jackson explore the incredible story of Joseph, one of the most inspiring figures in the Bible.

Joseph's journey—from favored son to betrayal, slavery, imprisonment, and ultimately, redemption—offers timeless lessons on perseverance, integrity, and faith. No matter where you are in life, Joseph's story reminds us to dream again, trust the process, and embrace the journey.

🔥 Key Takeaways:

✅ Your Dream is Worth the Wait – Great dreams often come with great challenges. Stay patient and trust the process.
✅ Integrity Over Opportunity – Joseph chose character over shortcuts, and it shaped his destiny.
✅ Forgiveness is Freedom – Holding onto bitterness only holds you back. Letting go moves you forward.
✅ Use Your Gifts, Even When No One is Watching – True leadership isn't about being seen; it's about serving others.
✅ God is in the Details – Even in trials, setbacks, and waiting seasons, God is working for your good.

📖 Episode Highlights:

⏳ [00:02] – Welcome & introduction to The Greater Call Podcast
🎙️ [00:10] – Joseph’s story: From the pit to the palace
💡 [00:25] – Handling life’s setbacks with faith and resilience
🙌 [00:40] – The power of forgiveness and how it impacts leadership
🔥 [00:50] – Encouragement to dream again and step into your calling

If you've ever felt like life isn’t going as planned or that your dreams have faded, this episode is for you!

Connect with Us:

📲 Follow us on social media: @TheGreaterCall (Instagram, FaceBook, YouTube, & X)
🎥 Subscribe on YouTube: Search ‘The Greater Call Podcast’
📩 DM us for prayer requests, leadership advice, or to share your story!

Website→ https://markimmelman.com/the-greater-call/

✨ Be full of joy in all things, no matter where you are. Be thankful. Go and be a legend! ✨

Transcript

The Greater Call Episode 1

[00:00:00] 

Welcome to the Greater Call Podcast. A place where you can turn to, to get lessons on how to excel at life and leadership from the leaders.

I'm Mark, this is my good friend and pastor Kyle Jackson, so glad you would join us, Kyle. Nice to see you, man. Mark, so good to see you, my friend. Yeah. Honest. I'm a little nervous. This is kind of out of my league a little bit. I'm used to having a golf club in my hand, but you know, now with the Bible and such, this is exciting.

I'm looking so forward to this. Yeah, man, I'm so proud of you. And I know that golf has been your world for such a long time. But my favorite thing about being in relationship with you is you have insights in so many things other than the sport of golf. And obviously you're a great, uh, you call great sporting events, you call great tournaments, you call great shots.

But I'm so excited to take it to another level, the greater call and talking about life and lessons and leadership and just, I think so much of what we're going to talk about is going to be applicable to [00:01:00] anybody in any stage of life. You know what, it is a greater call. I guess let's put us into context.

That guy over there, um, I've what, known you for what, six, seven years now? Yeah, right at it. Um, Kyle is the pastor, our local pastor at the Church of the Highlands. Um, he's a dear friend. He's a, uh, legendary baseball player at Lipscomb University. The stories, they go far and wide. Um, but most importantly, Kyle, you are the guy that led my two girls to Christ.

So for that, I'm eternally grateful. Well, you guys have said that over time, but I think there's nobody gets there by one person. So I love watching you and Tracy and your family. Uh, and just the, the seasons of faith all the way down through your parents, through you guys. And I think we all play a part sometime in somebody's life change, but sometimes, the Bible says that some people plant, others water, and others receive the harvest side of that.

So I was just thankful to be a part. Of that journey and legendary baseball players. Very complimentary mark. I would [00:02:00] say that my batting average in college through four years is about as good as your drive is right now in golf. What's that? About 230 to 2225 on a good day, depending on the wind. So, uh, but Mark, obviously you played a lot of golf, uh, all American multiple times at Columbus state ended up being the coach of Columbus state university here in our city for a long time.

And then God opened up some doors for you. Uh, to do what you do now, uh, as an announcer, and it's so fun to watch you do what you're called to do, my friend. Mm hmm. Yeah, Doris, one of those that you helped kind of germinate was the seed I've had within, you know, and it's crazy I've gotten to where I've gotten because in reality, whatever I've been fortunate to achieve, it's always felt like there's something more.

That makes sense. And, um, this show has been something a long time in the works, so I'm glad you would come alongside me to take this acorn, which means a lot to me, and help this thing to hopefully grow [00:03:00] into a mighty oak that really makes a difference in people's lives. Absolutely. Well, I think what we're going to do is take legends from the faith and the Bible, regardless of people's faith journey.

I think the Bible is an incredible book. I think there's so much to learn from it. I think it's applicable. Uh, and your faith, if you're somebody who, faith is a big deal to you, but even if you're a great leader, uh, an athlete, a dad, a parent, a young professional, there's so, I think it's the greatest leadership book ever written.

Uh, if we can see it through that lens. You know what? Yes, it is. For me. If they had to make a movie of every one of these folks we're going to deal with in the show, it's like Indiana Jones meets Superman meets, it's triumphs and disasters and, and things, you know, since I've been researching these leaders, these legends, I'm like, wow, you know, the, remember back in Sunday school, the felt board, you know, well, maybe I'm, maybe a chalkboard for me, but you know, that felt board of, of, of the little nativity scene and stuff.

And [00:04:00] it looks so, yeah, Like, beautiful and, and kind of homely and, and inviting. I read these stories, Big Eye, the stuff in the Old Testament, more acts. Oh my good grief, this is real. This stuff is for real. No it is, and I think it's honestly, I think in the world we live in today, as fast moving as it is, and things are changing so rapidly, it can be really hard, uh, to look back at 2, 000 years of history and things that were written in different languages and understand, again, how has this applied to my life today when I get up and I go to work at the bank, when I get up and go to work as a school teacher, when I get up to go as an amateur golfer, or I get up to go and be a stay at home mom.

I'm a student in high school or college just trying to get a degree, like, why does this matter to my everyday life? Why do these stories that we're even going to talk about, these heroes we're going to talk about, what can I take from that? I think that's the most beautiful part of the Bible. It's written in a way that's so timeless, um, that the principles still stand today.

Those of us that understand it know that it matters in [00:05:00] everything we do. They're not even really stories. They become filters, values, principles that we view life through. Yeah, metaphors for life, I would call them. I mean, when we hear about these guys in prison and persecution and stuff, you know, we all face our own persecution and prisons, um, as we navigate this thing that is life here on earth.

Okay, episode one, it's your favorite story. Episode two, just for the record, will be my favorite story. And then beyond that, we'll just, again, work through these heroes, you call them of the faith. To me, these folks are legendary. And the reality is, each and every one of you is a legend in your own sphere.

In the household, in the workplace, on the field, whatever you're doing. So, Episode 1, Joseph. Dream again. Dream again. Yeah, you, you gave. an impactful sermon on this, um, about Joseph. So give us the, put on your Steven Spielberg hats and whistle stop us through the life of Joseph before we die. Yeah, Joseph, an amazing story.

[00:06:00] Again, I think. There's so many things that people can take in their everyday life from it. Joseph was a young man, uh, who was a favorite child. Um, neither one of us know much about that, but, like, there are people that are favorite children, uh, in their life. I mean, I would say that I am. I'm sure my parents would say it's equal, but, you know, my brother might have something else to say about that as well.

So, uh, but he was a favorite child. I think that that's not even a mistake in the story to teach us about how sometimes life's not fair, and there are favorites, and Uh, what do you do when you're not? What do you do when you are? And Joseph's this favorite child. His dad gives him in the story, this incredible coat, beautiful coat, probably from the masters, like limited edition.

Yeah. Put that into perspective because the coats back in the day, like imagine Folks who work in the fields, they're hardly like elaborate, they're wearing tans and they're tonal looks. And this was like multi colored, must have cost a fortune, right? A fortune. Um, and he, he gives it to his youngest son, which in that culture didn't make a lot of sense because it really started with the oldest son and he gives it off to [00:07:00] Joseph.

Joseph's wearing this coat, uh, and his brothers are jealous. The Bible is very clear that jealousy slips in, uh, that they don't like that dad has favored. Uh, this sun and they start talking about it and honestly, jealousy slips into a really dark place and I think we've probably all been there with bitterness or jealousy or wishing we were somewhere or someone, uh, further along than where we were or wishing we were in somebody else's shoes and hindsight's always 2020 and the grass always looks greener on the other side.

Um, and Joseph's brothers ended up throwing him into a pit. They ended up selling him into slavery. Joseph ends up in this guy's house named Potiphar. As you read the story in Egypt, in Egypt, correct. And the Bible is clear that Joseph, um, everything he touches and puts his hands to in that story, in that season of this dream that he had, you know, he had this dream where.

His brothers were going to bow down to him that he was going to be in this high place of leadership. And it wasn't just one dream. There was multiple. And he goes and tells his dad and brothers about these. And that's where the jealousy creeps in. Not a good move. Well, there's some youthfulness to that.

Like he didn't take a lot of time to [00:08:00] process what this means. He just kind of went and. Put it all out in front of his brothers and his dad. And that's where jealousy slipped in. They throw him into a pit, they sell him into slavery. But Joseph ends up in this guy's house. That's, uh, got some influence. And the Bible is very clear that everything Joseph puts his hands to in the house and in the field turns to gold and Joseph's doing great.

But then Joseph faces some adversity, which we'll talk about here in a minute in the episode, because we all face adversity, uh, in different ways. And Joseph gets thrown into prison. Uh, Potiphar throws him into prison. So a guy that's loving him in one season, all of a sudden. Has turned his back on him a guy that's promoting him and pushing him as this amazing leader All of a sudden has basically fired him And put him in a dark place in a prison and joseph ends up doing what?

I think is so important as he continued to serve and continue to do what? Uh, God had given him these gifts and talents that would ultimately lead towards the vision being completed. He does that while he's in prison. He interprets some dreams of some other guys that are there. That word gets to Pharaoh.

Pharaoh calls him into the palace. He interprets Pharaoh's dreams, and then Pharaoh puts [00:09:00] him in place of all the land. He's the second in command of all of Egypt, and there's a famine. Talk about the promotion. Yeah, there's a famine. His brothers end up showing up, and the completion of the dream comes years later.

Uh, from where he originally had it as a young man, where he told his brothers and his dad, and he walked through a lot to get there, uh, and I think we can all relate to that in different areas of our life, that maybe we have something in our mind or our heart that doesn't look like what we thought it would, uh, but if we stay faithful, if we have integrity and character and continue to serve, God's always faithful to do what he placed in our heart.

Okay, diving into this before we get to the personality of the man. Um, I've seen on social media, you know, those, they like memes and then it's like, here's where I am and that's the goal. And everyone envisions the straight line. And then the reality is that this thing is squiggled and crooked and down through valleys and up over hills.

And yes, one of our true heroes of the faith who had this dream, like each and every one of you have, [00:10:00] maybe he was a little immature in broadcasting this, or he didn't do it in a very sensitive way. But it all comes true after just, I mean, slavery, uh, then he goes to the highest of highs, then he's accused, he's in prison because he's accused of relations with Potiphar's wife, falsely accused, and now he's at the highest of highs.

And as I read through the story preparing for this again, you know, with different eyes maybe, the thing that jumped out to me was through the soul, how he could have been bitter. I could have been angry. There were all these emotions, you know, those behind the door, you know, in your closed room, in your pillow emotions that he's gone through.

And now he's at the highest of highs, after interpreting the dreams, in charge of everything in Egypt. And here's these brothers, 12 of them, 12 of [00:11:00] them, right? Yes. He was in the 12th. They come to him and they bow down before him. I could only imagine what must be going through this guy's mind. Help us unpack this, because all of us go through these emotions.

Everything he went through, we go through. So his whole story, to me, is kind of a metaphor for people's life as they're excelling towards wherever their goal is. Well, I think what Joseph did is he stewarded Uh, the vision really well, post maybe not presenting it the right way at an early age. I think he stewarded the vision God gave him.

I think that anybody that's a visionary leader or has vision in their life that, um, has been successful, has walked that out, understands that patience, uh, when there is vision in your life is so key. Uh, to getting to where you want God, where God wants you to be or what you have in your heart. And I think we just live in a culture that's very Amazon, you know, it's, uh, we ordered a TV on Monday night and on Tuesday it was sitting on our front doorstep just this week.

And we got home and my wife was like, didn't you just click that yesterday? I'm like, yes, at 3 p. m. and it's on the [00:12:00] front doorstep by noon. And we've been trained to think that things are going to happen overnight, but nothing happens overnight. Uh, especially in God's economy. God can do anything in a moment if He wants to, but I think you and I have been following God for a long time, and there's been dreams we've had in our heart or things that we feel like God's placed in our life that we want to accomplish, and there's a stewardship of that that I think is very important because I think actually what God's really more interested in is your character.

It's your integrity. I think that if we get what we want quickly, we can ruin it quickly. I think Joseph had this dream, but if it would have came true at that age, It might not have, we might not be learning the same lessons we're learning today from the journey that he actually took, that took patience.

So I think there's a stewarding, a stewardship part of a dream, and I think there's a growing in your integrity and in your patience that matters a lot to God in completing the dream. You said this, these are your quotes, . Um, dreaming is God's invitation to what's possible. You said great dreams come from great challenges.[00:13:00] 

Um, he was the youngest of the brothers, which back in the day, then you were basically the bottom of the totem pole, even though you've got the multicolored jacket on. And then you said your dream is worth the wait. But the most important statement you made, the one that kind of resonated with me was advancement of the dream happens in the unseen.

So let's look at Joseph. Now you mentioned the integrity. I'm sure those dreams that he had never went away because they don't. Like, we've all got this inside. You might be working in the cubicle right now, and your dream was to be a visionary, whatever. So those don't go away, but you're just where you are.

But while you're in that cubicle, while you're on the practice tee, or the batting cage, or whatever it might be, there's this dream in there, but you've still got to just run the course where you are with integrity. I'd love your take on that, please. Well, I think there's a misconception about, you know, what our role is.

In life and [00:14:00] why God even gives us opportunity and gives us dreams and gives us vision. I think the greatest Leadership that we can have in our life is that we serve others I am more interested in seeing other people Get to where God's calling them to get to then I am trying to push anything forward in my own life I think that Joseph's why I like him I think Joseph is interpreting some dreams of guys in prison not trying to get to the palace But just doing what God had gifted him to do faithfully in the dark when nobody was watching.

I think we live in a culture that people are more interested in their gifts being seen than they are, uh, their gifts being used. And I think God's looking for people that are willing to use them in the dark, in, um, in a place where nobody's watching, uh, where it doesn't even matter for promotion. Just being faithful to what God's asked you to do and what God's given you.

And I think Joseph is a model of that while in prison. The reason he ends up in the palace is because word gets out that he's interpreting these guys dreams and nobody [00:15:00] was watching. Um, and I just think we live in a culture where everybody wants to push their dream forward. And I have learned over the years, Mark, and I think you're so good at this.

You're such an encourager. You're always got, you're always finding something nice to say to somebody to build them up. My family may disagree. One of my favorite Bible verse in the entire world that has nothing to do with the Joseph story, but I think you model it as Ephesians 4 29. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, but only what's helpful for building others up.

According to their needs, that it benefits everybody that's listening. I think that's what you do unbelievably when you call a golf tournament. I think that's what you do when you pass somebody in church on a Sunday. I think that's what you do at your house when you're sitting around a dinner table.

Kyle, Kyle, you know I slide past people to my seat in your church. I know you're introverted and you don't like to high five people. And your least favorite part of the service is get out of your seat and high five somebody. For the record, he's actually changed his approach to this. Kyle will go If you are comfortable high fiving your neighbor, go right ahead, and I'll just sit right down.

If you're [00:16:00] not, please take a seat, and that tells you that you don't want to high five somebody you don't know. But I think that's what you're best at, and I think, again, I think that's what Joseph was doing. I think that he used his gifts to serve Potiphar. I think he used his gifts to serve these guys in prison, and he ultimately ends up using his gifts to be second in command to serve somebody else.

So his dream was accomplished because he was willing to serve somebody else's. And do it when nobody was watching. It had nothing to do with promotion. Yeah. Here's something I've learned in my 54 years. Maybe I'm a little wiser now, so I now see it or realize it. Um, that the dream or the goal is oftentimes scuttled by our own behavior.

And here's Joseph, handsome young guy, second in command. Um. No, no, not yet. Working for Potiphar out of slavery now. So life is good now. Again, in the house, got the run of the place. And yeah, Potiphar's smoking hot wife comes, comes and makes moves on him. And he's like, no, thank you. This is who I [00:17:00] am. There's a real lesson in just behavior.

Mindset, discipline, all these sorts of things, you know, that you hear when you're listening to podcasts or reading books about excelling, getting to where you're going. But, but that over there, you know, remaining true to who is his integrity, I feel like is massive for anybody who has any design on getting somewhere.

Absolutely. I mean, we live in a culture that you can do the right thing and still get canceled. Yeah. Um, so again, this is very, this is, this would happen to Joseph. He did the right thing. And still ended up in prison. But he did the right thing though. He made the right choice, and still got canceled. He did what he should have done, and it delayed the dream a little bit.

Or did it? And I think that's what we miss sometimes, is we think what's a delay sometimes is really just God moving, protecting, timing's always perfect in everything that he places in your heart. We try to rush it. But again, I [00:18:00] think God's more interested in who we are when we get to the dream than he is about us reaching the dream.

Yeah, no kidding. Um, I want to go here because oftentimes life sort of beats one down. And then the dreams pale when, you know, you're struggling to meet bills or, you know, kids are ill. I heard these wise words one day from a wise old man. He said, you'll only be as happy as your saddest child. And parents will, that resonates with me and people.

So, just the challenges of life kind of start beating you down a little bit. And then, the dream pales. It's still in there. Yeah. But it sort of paled a little bit. And you challenged your congregation to dream again. You know, not put that thing to bed. Like you said at the end of it all, you're like, you're not too old to do this and, and, and you're not past your sell by date and all this sort of stuff, which I was like, he's right.

And, but if you choose to renew your mind a little bit [00:19:00] and start to go, yes, I'm just going to get some things in order. I've got to get myself back on track, whatever it might be the discipline of that all. Uh, I'd like you to, to talk about dreaming again. Cause we all have dreams, but you know, sometimes they kind of fade.

Well, sure. I think if there, if it's a God dream. For those of us who are listening to the podcast. Help us there. If those of us who are listening to a podcast and we're followers of God, and you know that God's actually put this in front of you, to think that it's going to be easy, the Bible is very clear that it's not always going to be easy.

The Bible says you'll face challenges of many kind. It'll say there's adversity that builds perseverance. Um, there's a process to that dream. And I think what happens is, is there's also somebody fighting against us for that dream not to happen. And it's so easy to give up in our culture today. It's so easy to look out at circumstances and the season of life, and we've got young kids, or it didn't go the way we wanted it to, or man, it's just going to take too long.

And I think God's looking for some people that are willing to persevere, that are willing not to just give up at [00:20:00] the first sign of adversity. The first sign of trouble, the first sign of it not going the way that you thought it would go. Um, and I think that we have, we've softened up a little bit there because again, the culture has taught us if we want it, we ought to be able to get it quickly.

And I do, I think people need to dream again. I think people listening to the podcast, there's a book they've wanted to write for a long time. They started it. Life circumstances stopped it. And then they've just tucked that into a drawer somewhere in a home office and never picked it up again. I think there's dreams of people to finish their college degree or to go further in their education, but it's so easy to look out at the circumstances and say, well financially I can't do that in this season, or we have young kids, so that's going to be really hard to figure that out, so we just tuck it away.

I think there's people listening to the podcast that want to start a business, or want to do something great for God, or want to do something that sets their kids up for the future, or put them in a school that they want them to go to, but life's always going to give you why not. And I think God's always got a door that says, but you can, and that's where you step out in faith a little bit.

Um, and again, I think we as a culture have stopped stepping out in faith. We'd rather do the [00:21:00] safe thing than maybe the, the scary thing. And I don't ever think that what we do when we step out is scary. I think it's uncertain. Uh, but I've not seen anything throughout the Bible as you read it that didn't take somebody stepping out in faith to accomplish something great.

Uh huh. Um, I want to I want to get back to Joseph a little bit because I keep thinking of this guy's life and you know, there's people think of, he has the favorite son who made the mistake of telling his siblings that that was the case. I want to talk about that, but I keep on wanting to go to the place where at the end of the story, his brothers do make the trek down to Egypt.

There's famine in their land, Egypt because of Joseph's vision. They had stores and food and supplies, plenty for the seven years of famine. And here's his brothers, and he's dressed in his Egyptian regalia, so they don't recognize him. He's been in Egypt for how long? And they bow down, [00:22:00] and I can only, I try to put myself in his shoes.

And I would be like, you guys, you guys chucked me in a pit. You sold me off into slavery. And then I'm, I'm, I'm trying to reconcile that with some quotes I heard back in the day that sort of goes something to the effect of, you know, if you hold a grudge, the only person that's hurting is yourself, the powers of Joseph's forgiveness of his brothers for what they did to him, because the whole way through this, he kept on saying, whatever was happening, God is using it for my good, which is something incredible mindset wise, but just to look at them and go, I forgive you guys, but he didn't let them know right away.

He kind of let them just, you know, sweat a little, squirm a little bit. Um, that forgiveness thing, man. It's, to me, it's, it's, it's one of the things that great leaders, great successful men and women, they actually are able to do. Absolutely. [00:23:00] It's probably the hardest thing to do. I think, you know, for those of us, again, that are listening to the podcast, and we have faith, if you were to ask me what Christianity is, You know, summed up into one word, I think a lot of people would say love.

I think a lot of people would, would use a word. I mean, for me, it's always been that to sum up what our faith is about is it's about forgiveness. That the whole point of what God did by sending his son to earth was that we could be forgiven. Uh, and, and anybody that's listening to the podcast that has faith knows that we have been forgiven.

Yet. The opposite of that is the hardest thing we do as individuals is forgive. So it's such an interesting balance of like everything that we say we're about is the fact that we are forgiven. Yet the hardest thing we do on a day to day basis with people is forgive. Uh, and forgiveness is always a thing that keeps you from pushing forward to where God wants you to go.

Like it'll always pull you back. There's always a voice there. There's always a wound there. There's always hurt there that maybe we don't even see cause we cover it up with success. We cover it up with [00:24:00] pride. We cover it up with bitterness, whatever it is that we cover it up with, but it's always pulling us a little back.

It's pulling us back. And it's, it's making us go longer. It holds you back more than we know that it does. And that might not be the word that people would use, but I'm just after doing this for 15 years of being a pastor, it is, it is one of the number one things that hold people back from fully doing what maybe is in their heart from fully being who God's called them to be as there's a, there's a piece of unforgiveness somewhere with someone.

Um, and I think we have to understand that forgiveness isn't necessarily letting them off the hook for what they did, but it's letting us off the hook so that we can go live our life and not hold anything against someone that might be holding us back. As leaders, you mentioned my coaching career. I coached college golf for 22 years, I think it was.

Um, I've found as I've studied great leaders that something they're able to do is Deliver the vision, [00:25:00] um, berate if need be, motivate if need be. I think of the quote, uh, John Wooden, when he was asked how he deals with young basketball players, how he motivates them, he goes, sometimes I pat them on the back.

And sometimes I just have to pat them a little lower, you know, just let's get going here. Um, but through it all, leaders are able to communicate that vision. And then motivate the people around. And if you haven't forgiven someone for something they did wrong, because it's inevitable, as a golfer, I think, let's say a caddy gave you a bad yardage, you got to forgive to be able to move on.

Because if you keep holding onto that, That bitterness, that malice, whatever it might be, it takes away the element of being able to just to live free and to be able to swing free if you're an athlete, you know, because you're like, there's always this thing bothering you. So as I look at this and I look at Joseph, [00:26:00] the forgiveness to me was, it's kind of was the bow on the end of the story, you know, as he says to his brothers, okay.

Go back and bring my father. Well, Benjamin was along. Bring my father back. And, and so then when there was this awesome reunion with all of the family in Egypt, it was like the whole story. The bow got tied because he was prepared to get over what happened. Just like great leaders do. And you could tell forgiveness was there because you're right early on in the story.

You know, put yourself into that story, and some of us have felt like that before, that, you know, we've, we've told family about something we wanted to do, they didn't believe in us, then it feels like we get sold off from the family, you know, then we get betrayed by somebody that we're close to, Potiphar in the story with Joseph, with Joseph and Potiphar's wife, um, and then he gets to the palace moment, I think there was probably, there was some bitterness he probably had to work through, there was some anger he had to work through, but where you can see at the end of the story that he had worked through it [00:27:00] was the opposite side of all of that, is if he hadn't, he would have been prideful in that moment when they bowed down to him.

He would have proven a point of the, the dream coming to place. He would have, he would have made sure they knew he had authority now and he had power and it happened. And what you watched is he didn't do that. He ends up just serving his family. And you can always see when somebody's forgiven as they get back to just serving, they get back to doing what God's called them to do.

Because the opposite is they haven't forgiven whenever that dream comes true, there can be pride, uh, they can, we can work so hard to achieve what we were trying to achieve to prove to somebody else that tried to hold us back that when we get there, we forget that God was even in the middle of it and was the one that got us there to begin with.

We actually think we did it. And again, I think that's why there's, there's, there's, there's a promise from God. There's a payoff date from it because God's always faithful to do what He says He's going to do. Yeah, but that's the waiting. It's in the waiting. It's the process in the middle that people don't like.

I call it waiting. So there's the promise and there's a payoff date and then there's a process in the middle. And I don't think [00:28:00] we like the process, but I think in the process God is working out that bitterness. He's working out that anger. He's working out that insecurity. And He's working out the pride that when you get there you remember you weren't the one, you weren't the one that got yourself there.

It was God. The whole time and I do think forgiveness is so huge for leaders Um, you know, leaders aren't trying to just win the short game. They're trying to win the long game, and there's gonna be so many things along the way that you're gonna have to forgive, that you're gonna have to move past, that you're gonna have to work through.

So you might as well do that because when you get to the end of the dream, when you get to the place that you wanted to go initially, it's a whole lot more fun when you get there, knowing that you can celebrate it freely. And not just celebrate it to prove a point that the wake of the bodies in your Yeah, I get it.

Um, what's the old thing? You know on your way to the top be nice to everybody because you're going to meet them all on the way back down i've seen this um a couple more things before I let you put your pastorly kind of a Bow on this thing and give us the marching orders. Um, this is another one of your quotes [00:29:00] Don't be more concerned with your gifts being seen than being used now In today's Um, we all broadcasters, social media, YouTube, you name it, and it seems to me I'm in the business of it where it's all about being broadcast and people notice me and see what and how many likes and follows and all the sort of stuff I have.

You shot me between my eyeballs when you made this comment and you said, don't be more concerned with your gifts being seen than being used. Now gifts could be anything. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I think, um, we do live in a world that is, it is about me. Um, and I think that's, that's, that's okay. Like that's the culture we're living in today.

So I think it's more about the heart side of it than it really is about the practical side of it. You're right in the world that you live in and the world that. People are trying to influence people or people are trying to gain influence in order to get whatever it is They're getting out there whether they're selling a project [00:30:00] a product or whether they're trying to push a project forward or whether they're Trying to just motivate people to do something like you do have to jump into that sphere And you do have to learn how to do those things I think you know for me It's just making sure that as you do that as leaders you add value to people along the way Because honestly nobody cares about you as much as you care about you And if it's always about you, people are going to want to stop listening to you.

And I think, I think the key is for long term success, again, in the short term, you can make it a lot about you and people are interested in that, but there's always another you coming along behind you, beside you, out in front of you. There's only so many things you can push, so many ways to say certain things, so many products to sell, so many principles to teach.

At some point, if it's always about you, then people are going to stop listening to you. Um, you've got to make it about others. You got to add value to other people. Again, I think this is what you do so well. I think every environment I'm in with you and every environment I listen to, [00:31:00] you figure out a way to add value to other people and that will, that will push you way further.

You'll last way longer. Again, we want to do this long term, not short term. I don't want to be doing something new every six months because People have stopped following what it was that we were talking about. I don't, I don't want to be an instant success. I want to do this for the longterm leaders are in it for the long game, not just the short game.

And I think the ones that I've seen that do something for a long time that people are still listening to following, learning from, it's because they figured out how to take what they're great at and use it to add value to others, not just build their own kingdom. It's how you spread your influence, right?

Yeah. People are more likely to run with your vision if they're motivated than if they do it begrudgingly. Absolutely. I have this, this is in my soul, so I'm going to just quickly slide off the run of show here. We haven't talked about Joseph as the immature young kid telling his brothers that went about him.

By the way, I'm [00:32:00] the oldest. I'm kind of Reuben in my family. Reuben was the oldest of the brothers. But then there's dad, right? And now this is for, because as a parent, you're a leader in your household and you know, life is going to be easier if you lead your family. Well, moms and dads, gosh, that's my biggest job.

Um, let's look at this where dad's got these sons. They're out there in the fields. They're tending to the flux. They basically building the family wealth. And then there's little Joseph, who's out there in his, in his designer coat, um, preaching his vision, aggravating brothers. And Dad did this. I'd love to get in your mind on the parental counsel here, please.

You've got teenagers, I've got elementary kids. You probably have more wisdom to give on the parenting side of things. I think, you know, I think as I'm learning about parenting, watching [00:33:00] you, watching others, talking to people in our church that are way further ahead of us, um, you know, I think that what Joseph's dad did is he parented each child differently.

I think Joseph's dad probably had some principles in place, and I think as families we should have some values and principles that we're teaching our kids about this is who Immelmans are, this is who Jacksons are, this is how we behave, this is how we treat people, this is how we, how we think through things, this is how we keep God at the center of what we do, but I think he parented each kid differently.

He obviously parented Joseph differently than he did Reuben, and probably all the kids in between, and I think as a parent you have to really look on and go, okay, what are the principles of our home? What are the principles of the Bible for us that are Christians that we want to parent our kids through?

But also I'm going to see the unique insights and talents and gifts that are in each child and I'm going to steward those. Uh, God's given me them as their, their, their parent, their father, you know, the mother. And our, our job is to parent my daughter Kaylee and parent my son Cooper and the gifts that God's given them and push them forward in those and to never [00:34:00] try to put our own thing on them.

And I think I've watched you take this journey with your oldest daughter, who's going to go play golf at Alabama, but she's also into, don't say that on the podcast. We just lost followers. Um, at least from my side of the coin, we lost followers. Um, but I've watched you take this journey of your parenting, your two daughters through who Immelman's are.

I mean, there's a lot there. You guys have South African heritage, you're United States citizens, you've lived in both cultures, you're Christians, uh, but you've also, you know, you've traveled the world and I'm watching you guys put these things inside of your daughters, but they're interested in two very different things.

And even your oldest Izzy is very interested in two different things. And I've watched you so brilliantly, not. Press on her the game of golf, even though you're what was going on inside my head. I didn't say what was going on inside of your head, how I've watched you act and not force, uh, the game of golf on her, even though it's such a passion for you.

And again, I don't know, they don't talk a lot about Joseph's dad and the story, but he obviously [00:35:00] saw something in Joseph that was special. Um, and he didn't make it about being fair. I think a lot of times in our culture today, parents are so worried about being fair. It's not about being fair. We're never gonna get it right.

We're never gonna be fair. We can play scoreboard all day long with our kids on Were we fair? Did we do it the exact same way? We were tougher on the oldest kid and not as tough on the second one. My youngest will tell you then. Yeah And the third one, I mean he got raised by his best friends, right? Like he didn't even get raised by parents, but It's not about fair.

It's about stewarding each child and the gifts that God's given them and doing our best Um, me and my, my wife and I said that all the time, we're not going to get it right, but we're going to do our best. We're going to be intentional. We're going to see what's inside of them, and we're going to push them towards their God given purpose.

Not our purpose for their life, but God's purpose for their life. And again, I think you and Tracy do that so well with your girls. Thank you. You've said something now that again, is resonated with me and you're like, we're not going to get it right, but we're going to do our best. And this to me sounds like.

Joseph, who kept on saying, [00:36:00] wherever I am, I'm going to do me. I'm going to have integrity. I'm going to work hard. I'm going to stick to my, who's what's encoded inside. And I might not get it right, but God's going to use this for good in the end. Yeah. Okay. So, so, so let's have some takeaways here. I've, I've written down a couple, but this you're the expert.

So let me read these to you and you can, you can run with it. Um, lessons in life. What I took for this from the story is what happens is not so much the events and the circumstances. of your life, but how you respond to them. Absolutely. Okay, and then also, I just jotted this down because this came to me.

It was like, with faith and God's help, any and every situation can be used for good. Yes. And I feel like, I feel like that's liberating in a way because, you know, sometimes you have that event that transpires or you do something and you're like, oh gosh, and you feel like the whole thing's just slammed to a screeching halt and you've driven the car off the cliff.

You [00:37:00] know, all it is is just renewing your mind and getting back on track. Everything's going to be okay. Yeah. I am living proof of this. Okay. So pastor, um, give us the past, the pastoral, my American word, my pastoral takeaways, please. Oh yeah. I think, uh, again, for those of you that are listening, um, no matter if you're, you know, a church goer or.

Uh, you would say, you know, God, but still trying to figure out how it applies to your everyday life. I think there's so much to take away. I think one, you should dream. I do think dreaming is God's way of showing you what could be possible. If you ask God to give you vision, ask God to give you dreams, ask God to show you something that He would want you to accomplish, I think God's faithful to do that.

So I think we should all be asking that question from time to time, regardless of where we are in our faith journey. Just ask God to give you vision for your life. Uh, to give you a vision for what he might want you to accomplish instead of just trying to accomplish your own. Then I think there's a fruit of the spirit called patience.

And I think that we all have to grow in it. We're going to be a better What's it? Love, joy, peace, patience, [00:38:00] kindness, goodness, tend, gentleness, self control. I love that patience follows peace. Because it's hard to have peace if you don't have patience. And I think that, uh, there's a patient side to this that, that it's going to take time.

And as you grow that fruit of the spirit, patience in your life, you're better at everything. You are a better dad, a mom, a better son or a daughter, a better golfer or baseball player, a better business leader or employee. I think patience is so huge in everything that we do, and I think Joseph showed the patience throughout this entire story.

I would tell you to just serve. Uh, you might not think anybody's watching, but God's watching. Uh, do what, do what God's asked you to do. Uh, develop your character. Your talent will take you as far as your character can sustain you. And so we want something to happen so much quicker than it does, but maybe God's developing your character so that when you get there, you don't mess it all up.

And be okay with that. So develop your character. Be, dream. Develop your character, be patient, and then trust God, for those that are listening. God's [00:39:00] always faithful to take what He plants in your heart. He wouldn't plant it in your heart if He wasn't going to bring it to harvest, and just trusting God through that process.

And then bring people alongside you, as God's brought me alongside you, and you alongside me, to encourage each other. Yeah, we encourage each other in what we feel like God's asked us to do. And we're doing this together and we have no idea where God's gonna take it. We hope it adds value to somebody's life and somebody listens to it.

If one person gets inspired, motivated, or feels like they experienced something through God's word today, then it's worth doing what we did for the last 40 minutes. So I think that's what I would add value to people. Ask God for vision for your life. Develop your character along the way. Be patient. And then trust God that he's gonna bring it into fruition at some point when the timing is right.

Kyle Jackson, Mark Emelman. Um, folks, thank you for downloading. Um, we're so thankful you would join us on this ride. Tell your friends. Um, our mission with the show is to help you just to navigate this thing we call life and the [00:40:00] leadership roles. that you have along the way because they are leadership roles, whether it's, you know, taking the kids to school or broadcasting a golf event or leading a flock of congregation.

Um, let's learn from these lessons. That's our goal. And it's just to highlight these lessons to you. Follow us on social. The handle is, I hope I get this right at the greater call. He's Kyle. I'm Mark going to be a legend.