The Greater Call Podcast – Episode 3: Unshakable Mission

The Greater Call Podcast - Episode 3

Title: Unshakable Mission – The Apostle Paul

🎙️ Hosts: Mark Immelman & Pastor Kyle Jackson

Episode Overview

In this episode of The Greater Call Podcast, Mark and Pastor Kyle dive into the incredible life and mission of the Apostle Paul. From persecutor to preacher, Paul’s transformation is one of the most remarkable in history, showing the power of purpose, perseverance, and leadership. His story reminds us that no one is beyond redemption, and when we discover our calling, we should pursue it with unwavering determination.

Key Takeaways from This Episode:

✅ Paul’s Radical Transformation – From persecuting Christians to becoming one of the greatest missionaries in history.
✅ Living with an Unshakable Mission – Despite shipwrecks, prison, and persecution, Paul stayed focused on his purpose.
✅ Leadership Lessons from Paul – How Paul built teams, mentored others, and communicated effectively to spread the Gospel.
✅ Finding Your Purpose – How Paul’s life teaches us to embrace our calling and go all-in.
✅ The Power of Perseverance – How resilience in tough times can shape us into stronger leaders.

Notable Quotes from the Episode:

🗣️ “Paul makes you want to run through a wall!” – Kyle Jackson
🗣️ “Without vision, people perish. Paul had a vision, and he was all in.” – Mark Immelman
🗣️ “Paul didn’t micromanage. He multiplied leaders and entrusted them with the mission.” – Kyle Jackson

Action Steps for Listeners:

🔹 Reflect on your personal ‘road to Damascus’ moment—where have you experienced a shift in purpose?
 🔹 Ask yourself: Am I leading with clarity and perseverance?
🔹 Take one leadership principle from this episode and apply it this week in your workplace, family, or community.
🔹 Share this episode with someone who needs encouragement in their faith or leadership journey.

Connect with Us:

📲 Follow us on social media: @TheGreaterCall (Instagram, FaceBook, YouTube, & X)
🎥 Subscribe on YouTube: Search ‘The Greater Call Podcast’
📩 DM us for prayer requests, leadership advice, or to share your story!

Website→ https://markimmelman.com/the-greater-call/

✨ Be full of joy in all things, no matter where you are. Be thankful. Go and be a legend! ✨

Transcript

The Greater Call Episode 3 – Unshakable Mission

[00:00:00] Mark: Episode three of the greater call podcast. Welcome. So glad to have you. I am Mark that is pastor Kyle Jackson, Kyle. Three. Mark. Can you believe it? We, passed two. We're on to three. It's we are, we are, uh, we're off and running, man. So much fun on the first couple episodes. Loved getting the feedback, from people in our city and some other people that have been able to listen and thankful for people that are sharing it, with their friends and family members to hopefully encourage them and what we're trying to do here.

[00:00:28] Just a reminder. We have got lots of responses from folks. Positive. Thankfully, please leave us a nice review. If you so led. Do share this with your friends. Follow us on social, the handles on Instagram and on X are at the greater call or subscribe on YouTube. Okay. Unshakeable mission. The Apostle Paul.

[00:00:50] Kyle, why don't you walk us through what is, this is some sort of, this could be a movie, this life of Paul. No doubt. I, [00:01:00] uh, we talked about earlier, we joked earlier. So this could probably be two or three episodes just to break down. , how much my man here, meant to our faith and really the stuff that you can learn from him, even if you're not a follower of Jesus, there's so much to learn from Paul's life.

[00:01:12] And really the quick background is that he was born a Pharisee, and he was born a Roman citizen. And, uh, for most of his life, the first part of his life, he, we find him persecuting Christians. Like he was so against. Zealous, huh? Yeah. I mean, he was all in. No, like all in a hundred percent. Like he was.

[00:01:30] If he was, if he was for something, Paul was 100 percent in, which we'll see on the other side of the story that he was 100 percent in the other way. When he had this encounter with Jesus, he was persecuting the church. Then he had this encounter, and he was blinded for three days and, they led him to a place where he ended up realizing that.

[00:01:47] God was very much real and God was actually very much for him and then the beautiful part of the story that I hope encourages people today as we break it down. We'll pull out some leadership stuff from him. We'll talk about his character a lot. But I think my favorite part of the story of Paul is just [00:02:00] that in one season of his life, he was persecuting and killing Christians.

[00:02:04] And then he has this encounter with God. Uh, and God just puts him back at a blank slate. Like he starts at zero again, holds nothing. Yeah, holds nothing against him. And then ends up using him, uh, maybe greater than anybody else we find in the Bible. He ends up writing two thirds of the New Testament. For those of you that read the Bible, or those of you that even don't, you're probably familiar with Bible verses all from the New Testament.

[00:02:25] And Paul wrote two thirds of the New Testament. Planted churches. God used him like crazy, and it's unbelievable from where he started to where he ended up, uh, what God did through his life. You know, you nailed it. For me, this show is about life. It's about leaving a legacy. It's about leadership. And if you go to one of those leadership conventions, you know, all the topics you hear, all the subjects are basically Paul embodied, uh, we call this one unshakable mission.

[00:02:54] It could have been relentless. It could have been determined. It could have been complete [00:03:00] devotion. Focus. Yeah. Cause nothing stopped this guy. I mean, after, and I want to talk about the transformation because that was a big deal, but I want to talk about, we use the word all in. Shipwrecks, storms, bitten by snakes, persecution, most of his life in jail.

[00:03:16] The guy through it all was, he was just all in and all, all the while. It's like he had this joy about him that he was like, I don't care where I am. Snake on my hand, whatever, throw this thing off. Here we go. I'm all for you, God. And I'm going to complete the mission you have put before me. Yeah, I think it's a beautiful picture to those that are listening of, uh, when you have vision and purpose in your life.

[00:03:40] You'll go 100%. I mean, if you don't have vision and you don't have purpose, it's hard to go all in with something. But Paul had clear, he had clear vision in the early part of his life. Like he knew what he was against as much as what he was for. And then he had this encounter with God and he went a hundred percent in on the other side and.

[00:03:55] Gave his life to it, planted churches, uh, wrote the, wrote the New Testament, [00:04:00] uh, From jail off of it. From jail, like in like horrible situations in jail. I got to visit, uh, Rome and the, the prison they say that he was in in Rome just this past year. It was hardly comfortable, right? And standing in it, I don't even think we have the perspective of what the winters and the summers and the years chained in a, in a cell in Rome was really like, and he's writing about joy.

[00:04:19] And I just think it starts with having clear vision. and purpose for your life. Like he took something, an encounter he had, uh, and he said, you know what? I'm going to go all in, uh, with this new vision and purpose. The Bible is clear. It says, uh, I think it's the greatest leadership book ever written. Mark.

[00:04:32] It says without a vision, people perish and Paul had a vision and he had a purpose and he was able to go all in because of that. Habakkuk. My mom reminds me of writing your vision on the tablets all the time. Um, Um, let's talk about the transformation because Paul was Saul of Tarsus. Yeah. He was a Pharisee.

[00:04:52] He called himself a Jew of all Jews. He studied with the best Jewish leaders. He persecuted [00:05:00] folks or people of the way, as they were called. Yeah. And Stephen, the apostle, stoned. And now he's on his way and he's walking over to Damascus. Lots of stuff happens in Damascus. And he has this encounter. He sees the bright light, he's blinded, and he has this sort of biblical transformation.

[00:05:19] Now, I try and put myself in this place where I'm like, okay, maybe the bright light experience, but here in the 21st century, those moments, they may not be as radical as what Paul experienced. But I think if everyone takes just a minute and looks. They might see this kind of watershed moment in their life where it's like I was going on this road It's time for me to turn and discover my purpose.

[00:05:48] Yeah, and then commit to it I want you to just be a pastor and elaborate a bit there, please Well, I think that's such a great question and a great thought. I think it's life's [00:06:00] Greatest question. Who am I? Yeah, who am I? Why am I here? I think we all whether we believe in God or not have something inside of us that It kind of yearns for that idea of like, what am I living the day to day for?

[00:06:14] I think the world teaches us to live day to day. 'cause we gotta pay bills. Let's, let's get married, let's have kids, let's have a picket fence, let's have a dog. You love your dog. Dead lives lives and you're living the ultimate dream. You've got a dog and a beautiful home and a wife that's, you know, way prettier than you are, and great kids, and you have a great job.

[00:06:33] I mean, that's life, right? Mm-hmm . That's, then you've hit the pinnacle, but there's still something inside of you that yearns for, like there's more. And I think that's how God created us. I think if you're listening to the podcast today and you've always wondered, why am I here? I think the Bible is very clear that he didn't create you and then hope you find something to do.

[00:06:50] He found something for you to do. And then he created you. I've always given the example, Mark, that everybody has a thumbprint and nobody's ever had one like you. Nobody has [00:07:00] one like you right now and nobody will ever have one like you in the future. And to think that you weren't designed and created on purpose for a purpose is crazy in light of the details of our life.

[00:07:10] That there's nobody like you. Nobody's ever had your personality type. Nobody's ever had your spiritual gifts. Nobody's ever had your upbringing, your life experiences. And when you can take all of that And you can put that into your purpose. You like your, your design reveals your destiny and you're designed in a very unique way.

[00:07:27] And I think most people spend their life trying to figure out what that is. And I think we struggle with figuring out what that is. I think it's clearer than we could even imagine. I think Paul's story will even pull some more thoughts out about that for people in a little bit. Yeah. Thank you for helping me not put the cart in front of the horse.

[00:07:44] But here's the thing about Paul, and maybe this is the challenge. It's a challenge for me. , where, when he had this moment, now look, if you hearing like from God Almighty, I'm sure it's like, okay, I'm paying attention. But you [00:08:00] know, all of us have these watershed moments and hopefully you're lucky enough that you hear directly from God, like that undeniable voice.

[00:08:07] But we have a moment and then we're like, okay, maybe it's time. But Paul, when he made the change, when he was transformed, he changed his name, Saul to Paul. And the guy, it's like, no turning back. He went 180. If he was going this way, he was in the opposite direction. And there wasn't any hankering or yearning for the previous life.

[00:08:32] Yeah. That's sort of. That repentance of who I was, and now this is where I'm going, and I'm a hundred percent. Yeah, I think, uh, you know, if you're anything like me, or anybody that's listening is anything like this. We have, we have blinders on our eyes, like we're focused on what we're focused on. like we're looking straight ahead at what we need to do, what we need to accomplish, what we want to accomplish, what needs to happen in order for us to be successful.

[00:08:54] And there are moments in our life and sometimes it's a tragedy. Sometimes it's a [00:09:00] losing of a job. Sometimes it's something happening with a child or we start something and financially it doesn't work out. We find ourself at a low in a valley. I think those valley seasons of our life have the opportunity for a couple of things.

[00:09:11] One, we we had this encounter with of realizing he's not just for us on the mountaintops. He's for us in the valleys too. When you have that experience with God and you, and you experience his peace, uh, and his grace and his mercy in those seasons, you have the ability to leave that season and get focused on the right things instead of just what the world says are the right things.

[00:09:33] Uh, or some of us, you know, and I've been there before too, where we, we go in those valleys and we try to dig ourself out. Uh, and if it's up to me, I'll get out of it and I'll do what it takes to get there. And then we, we ended up in another Valley and another season and life kind of has those ups and downs, ups and downs.

[00:09:48] And I think the beautiful part about what Paul did is that he had this encounter. I think blinders came off of his eyes. Yeah. And he realized that my purpose in life is not what, what I think my purpose [00:10:00] is. I have a greater purpose than that. And he discovered it in that moment. And like you said, he went all in, had vision and purpose and never turned back.

[00:10:07] I want you, people, I, I, this hit me from what Kyle was saying. Those blinders, sometimes it's unbeknownst. It's like, it just becomes the rat race. Oh yeah. Grind, whatever. And you end up just going past who you're supposed to be, what your purpose is all the time in the effort to just kind of pay bills, maybe at week's end.

[00:10:28] Sure. Pay bills or, uh, or have a position or have a title. You know, I think we, we live in a world that we feel like will be more secure the more success we have. And I, some of the most successful people I know are still trying to figure out. The purpose side of life. Exactly right. Okay, this is from my research Bible that I have as we dive into Paul, the character.

[00:10:55] Because again, it's like, if you want to study leadership, this is your guy. It says here, no [00:11:00] person apart from Jesus himself shaped the history of Christianity quite like the apostle Paul, then it goes and further down. The statement is made, God did not waste any part of Paul, his background, his training, his citizenship, his mind, or even his weaknesses.

[00:11:21] Then there's a question, are you willing to let God do the same for you? You will never know all that he can do until you allow him to have all that you are. So it's with that in mind, I want to dive into the man now. Yeah. Okay, you said we didn't need multiple podcasts. We're going to move through this stuff.

[00:11:43] He seems to be the perfect model for leadership and I want to start here. You hear, you think of Paul and then you see all the books of the Bible that he wrote and he's lettered to whoever and letter to this and the , letter to this community. But the reality is he was a real team [00:12:00] builder. Yeah, he had folks around him all the time.

[00:12:02] And at the end of most letters, he'd write like this long thank you list to thanks to Priscilla and Aquila and, and to my, my, my boy, Timothy, and then there's Barnabas and all these folks that went throughout the journeys with him. So it wasn't like. He had this divine inspiration and word from God to minister the gospel to the Gentiles, but he didn't try and go it alone.

[00:12:25] And I feel like that is like the ultimate leadership lesson. Oh man, I couldn't agree more. I think we live in a culture right now that says, you know, it's all about me, social media, as long as my followers and my reels and my TikTok gets the like, so it's all about me. I've got to come up with the content I've got to come up with.

[00:12:45] You know, and I think God's economy is very different. I think we're better together. Um, I think that, uh, two can do more than one. Um, a three stranded cord is hard, harder to be broken. And I think Paul there is my pastor's warning about your marriage. [00:13:00] I think, I think Paul was the example of this. I mean, he, if you read through the new testimony, you see that he mentored Timothy, he mentored Titus, he realized I can do more.

[00:13:09] By mentoring and multiplying my influence and my character and these younger guys and allowing them to go lead And that's what he did. He built teams He mentored and then he entrusted them with leadership and one of my favorite quotes of all time. It comes from my pastor over the last several years it comes from his father in law and he just says my greatest success in life It's helping other people become successful.

[00:13:32] Uh, and I, I love living my life that way, Mark. I think, I think you do it with, with the guys that you work with. You're always encouraging them and building them up. Like I'm better because of the team around me. You're better because of the team around you. And if we can help other people become successful in what's in their heart.

[00:13:48] Then we're ultimately going to end up being more successful, uh, as well. So I think Paul was just this model of entrusting guys with leadership, training them, sending them out, getting, making them successful. And through that [00:14:00] success. He had crazy success in reaching way more people and having way more followers and way more influence and in our terms of our culture today Than he ever could if he would just don't he would have gone at it alone.

[00:14:10] You speak of multiplication Hmm, it's not like said in the Bible but the more stories I read and the more I learn to understand this stuff the more I realize that Multiplication is something that's real in God's economy. Oh, yeah, and if you think about who Paul was He had the moment, he had the transformation, he got the message, off he goes and he starts to meet people along the way.

[00:14:33] And as he formed these churches and ministered to people wherever he was, it's like there was this multiplication on the go, as the little community here, and then they grew. It's amazing. Like if Paul gets to watch the whole thing now, like the Gentile community around the world who are all Christians that all really began with his messaging.

[00:14:56] It's incredible. Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, I, I think the [00:15:00] reason leaders or people struggle, uh, with building teams, handing things off. And trusting others to take your message, your brand, your idea, your product and, and running with it is, I think we struggle sometimes with, you know, if we're going to hand things off to the people we're going to hand them off to, do they understand the principles?

[00:15:19] Do they understand the main pillars, the main building blocks of what it is we're trying to do? And if they do, then you have to allow them to go lead. And we struggle because we like to show up and our preferences aren't met. But the principles are in place, and we sometimes we push so hard on will don't do it like that.

[00:15:40] I would do it like this. This is how you should do it. And it's, I call it preference leadership, which suffocates people. If they understand the principles, if they understand the vision, if they understand the purpose, which I think Titus and Timothy and these guys did, Paul didn't follow them around and micromanage them, uh, calling them out about every little preference that they might do a little [00:16:00] different because everybody's gifted differently.

[00:16:01] Everybody's wired differently. Everybody thinks about it a little bit differently. So if they can do it at 80 percent of how you would do it, then trust that the 20 percent that's different is still great because they are who they are and you are who you are, but you'll suffocate people if you live in this preference world of how you would do it, well, then you're going to end up only doing it.

[00:16:19] Which means you can't multiply, you might add, but you'll never multiply your leadership. You're preaching, Pastor. Okay, another element to Paul's character, as I read, as I digest, and really kind of, you know, dig into this thing. He had a boldness about him. He did. I mean, this guy, well first off, he kicks off most of the chapters, probably all of them, um, with like, I, Paul, write this letter to you, whoever, uh, it's a message I got directly from God, basically, and I paraphrase.

[00:16:51] And wherever he went into these communities, there was this like unabashedness about who I am, why I'm coming, what's [00:17:00] my mission, now listen to me. It's, it's something that's sadly, I feel like is not lacking, but it's in short supply, given nowadays that we all have This device we can hide behind, or this X account we can hide behind, and we're all creating this persona.

[00:17:20] Paul's like, here I am. Used to be a bad guy, Jew, now I'm a missionary for God, an apostle, firm believer. I'm coming in here, here's my message, do with it what you wish. Well, I think one of Paul's greatest messages, and you can talk about this, is as you read some of the books that he wrote, Perseverance is such a huge theme of Paul's life and character.

[00:17:41] Speaking of his character. I think if you were going to sum up, you know, in one word, who Paul was, it would land somewhere in that word of perseverance. I mean, my man went through it, like, even if you're not a Christian, like just to read the books that Paul wrote, like it would encourage you because it's like, man, my guy, I mean, he is the ultimate, like Vince Lombardi said, you [00:18:00] know, it doesn't matter how many times you get knocked down as long as you get back up.

[00:18:02] Like Paul is like the guy, Michael Jordan said, I failed a thousand times. But that's the only reason why I succeeded. And like that is Paul one Oh one. If you're listening, you're a sports fan. Like you would have loved Paul, Paul. You would want it, Paul. You won't Paul on your fantasy team. You won't Paul's Jersey because my guy just would not stop moving forward.

[00:18:21] And what, what he was called to do. And I think perseverance is the thing that's lacking maybe a little bit in our world today. Like, I think we want to have influence. We want to have leadership. We want to be at the top. We're real quick to, to talk about our bosses or talk about the people that are in a position of authority, maybe over us or an influence over us.

[00:18:39] But until you've sat in that seat, you never understand the pressure that someone has at the top. And we've got to learn how to persevere and wait and be patient. We, we want things so quickly. Uh, but if we, if we, if you get somewhere. Too soon and you haven't built perseverance in your life. You'll fall way harder as soon as the storm I think that's why people [00:19:00] struggle getting back up Yeah As we try to get somewhere before we're supposed to be there and we haven't built up this endurance this Perseverance this ability that when failure comes I can get back up And just to be patient and honestly trust the people that are ahead of you, learn from them is so huge.

[00:19:13] Yeah, he wrote about that. And as I think back to the previous two podcasts with Joseph and with David, that thread runs through there as well, where it's like just sticking to it and eventually your moment will come. Yeah. Faithfulness. I mean, I wrote this down. I put, um, his resilience reminds leaders that challenges are inevitable, but faithfulness leads to impact.

[00:19:36] Like we want one video to lead to impact. We want one celebrity to share what we do and it leads to impact. But truthfully, the guys I see that have impact for a long time, they were faithful. It wasn't just a one hit wonder. It was every day, getting up, doing what they're called to do, getting back up, doing what they're called to do, taking the criticism, getting back up, doing what they're [00:20:00] called to do.

[00:20:00] And faithfulness ultimately leads to impact. It's amazing the value of one, and when you and I decided to go ahead with this show, one of the missions was, even if it touches just one person. And again, I'm trying to put myself in Paul's shoes because I had written down here that Paul was brave and confrontational.

[00:20:24] Cause he confronted Peter, among others, who at that stage then, you know, Jesus has gone back to heaven, risen again. And Peter is kind of the guy amongst the Jews, right, the apostles. And Paul goes and confronts him. And Peter eventually capitulates, um, but through it all, it's this always this one on one sort of a thing.

[00:20:45] There were occurrences where Paul would speak to a group of people, but more often than not, it's just this. Me and you kind of thing and you just convert that one person and it's amazing the multiplication thing then Well, I think part of the story we can't see [00:21:00] is that I think Paul fought through so much He persevered through so much that even when he had to go confront Giants, I mean Peter's a giant in the faith I mean Jesus looked at Peter and said I'm gonna build my church on You and Paul can go and confront such a leader such a personality such a believed in person But I think even Peter could receive it and others could receive it Titus could receive it Timothy could receive it Because they saw Paul's faithfulness.

[00:21:24] Faithfulness just gives you so much, um, Like a calling card, huh? Yes, it gives you so much influence with people. Uh, it doesn't matter, maybe even how big of something, It's not even about what you've done, how big it is. It's about, I like to know how long somebody's done something more than how big something is.

[00:21:40] And I would add to that, and it's just popped in my head. It was, singularity is the wrong word, but it's like, Paul, it was black or white. There was no wishy washy. It's not like, well, you might want to consider this. It's like, this is, this is my message and that's to be [00:22:00] respected and it garners respect with people as well.

[00:22:03] Do you agree? Oh, no doubt. I think he was secure. Yeah. People love secure leaders. Like anywhere where insecure, um, light will be shed on that and insecurity is what hurts people that you lead. But a secure leader, even if they're black and white, it might hurt feelings. But I think people would rather know where you stand than to have someone not, you know, where there's not clarity.

[00:22:25] Clarity is kindness. Yeah. Clarity is kindness. And when there's no clarity, you don't know where you stand with people. And I think Paul just had a security about him. He knew what God did in his life and he was secure and bold in the mission that he was on. This may be out of order, but I had down here, he was ambitious.

[00:22:41] Yeah. I mean. Slightly. Yeah. Well, his mission was to preach the gospel to places where no, no one had ever heard it before. And it's not like he's got social media or the internet, he's walking, or is maybe on a donkey, if you're lucky, he's on a ship as [00:23:00] he's going past various places there on the way to Rome.

[00:23:03] Um, so there was an ambition there, but I feel like that sort of fits in with, okay, I've understood who I am now, nothing's going to stop me. And I think because of that, he had adaptability, he had innovation. Um, he did, he would go say the same things. If you read some of the New Testament, he's saying the same things, but in different ways.

[00:23:21] Yeah. Because of the audience that he was talking to. So he was just so secure that he was able to innovate. I mean, he used letters. He used other people. He mentored people. Uh, he planted churches. Uh, he, he, he just innovated. He just figured out ways to, he's like, I'm going to take this message, and I'm going to get it out to as many people as I can.

[00:23:41] And I think he had to adapt along the way. I think he had to think of new ways to do it from prison. I mean, he's writing some of these, again, like you said, some of these books were written in prison. He just figured out ways to, to continue to move forward. You're motivating me, man. I know, I know Joseph is going to go do, let's go do something.

[00:23:57] Joseph is your favorite [00:24:00] Bible hero. Yeah. And I'm watching you talk about Paul run down. I'm like, Oh yeah, Paul makes you want to run through a wall. Like Joseph makes you feel like, you know, God's faithful, Paul makes you feel, Paul makes you feel like God's super powerful, which he is. Paul's the guy you want to give the half, like you want him in your halftime locker room to give the speech for sure.

[00:24:21] You touched on the communication. Oh,

[00:24:29] that's flowing. That feels good. Yeah. Yeah, this is great.

[00:24:39] What do you, do you have, what do you have in you to slow down, you know, personal story. Okay. Like, I think there's a piece of us being, you know, yeah, you're right. Okay. I, I just want to talk about the communication and how it's speaking to be a cool way to end it. Okay. I think we can commute, we got, you know, 10, 12 minutes, we can hit [00:25:00] communication.

[00:25:01] So what communication now and then the story to wrap the story could kind of wrap it up. I mean, this is all amazing so much to talk through Paul again. We could keep going. Yeah, leadership principles to pull from, but I know this is true in my name, your life. Like we had a moment like Paul where we decided to leave all the things, you know, and we're not there.

[00:25:21] We're not perfect. Yeah, like and share that. Share that part of your story. Okay, cool. Okay. You touched on the way he communicates with people. And what was cool was he wouldn't just come in there with, well, there wasn't a Bible he had, I'm sure it's the scrolls of the old Testament. And he was a litigator of sorts because he'd make a statement.

[00:25:47] So do you think so? What if no, and then, and then he sort of litigate and sell the thing to you, but he would speak in the tongue of the group that he was with. So it's kinda like [00:26:00] you, the leader, I watch you with your congregation, my kids. You're like, Hey man, how you doing? And you're the cool hip pastor guy.

[00:26:07] Yeah. Super cool. And then with the old guys like me, you're a little bit more sort of paternal. Yeah. And leadership wise, , I feel like that is a massive but tribute to being a great dad, a great business leader, uh, a great anything. Honestly, if you're a man or a woman. You know, I couldn't agree more. And again, I know, thank you for saying that about me.

[00:26:27] You shut me down in the last podcast when I tried to like compliment you. So I'm not going to let you do it. I'm putting it out in front of you. But I do think this is, uh, you know, Mark, you're an incredible instructor in golf. People know that everybody loves that. Um, but I, I've always heard what you do so well is you're able to take what somebody is good at.

[00:26:43] So I'm a baseball guy, never played golf in my life, but when you talk to me about my golf swing, you talk in baseball terms and it made so much sense to me if you were with an engineer. engineer terms. Um, and I think, I think we're so worried sometimes maybe, uh, [00:27:00] about our, uh, our, uh, delivery of when we communicate instead of slowing down and going, how can I communicate to this person in a way they can understand?

[00:27:09] How can I take what I'm trying to teach somebody and say it in a way that, that fits them, not. Is now it's harder because I just want to say it how I want to say it. You got to know what you, how about this? You got to know your subject intimately. One hundred percent. Every good communicator knows his audience.

[00:27:24] Paul knew his audience. That's why he communicated the same things in different ways because he understood their culture. Yeah. Um, he understood how they thought about things. He understood the right questions to ask to make them. You know go a level deeper and I think that's what every good communicator does as a pastor I think that's what every good announcer does on tv I think that's what every good motivational speaker can do to inspire you is learning your audience and it is more work for you Uh, because we just want to say it how we want to say it But when you can learn how to say it how somebody can receive it, uh, your influence has the ability to skyrocket again That's what paul did and that's why we love his letters in the bible because we can read different books And [00:28:00] some of them hit differently based on you grew up in South Africa.

[00:28:03] I grew up in Alabama I'm a baseball guy. You're a golf guy You're much older than I am. I'm much younger than you are much younger than you are. So we hear it we hear it in different ways And I think that's what Paul was brilliant at is let me say this five different ways so that it touches everybody not just one Group of people I was traveling back from an assignment trip last night And I was listening to the Bible and you know Paul to me was always Romans and Philippians and Corinthians and Thessalonians, Galatians hit me as I was listening to it and I do want to touch this quickly and I guess it pertains to me as well where Paul just seemed tremendously thankful.

[00:28:44] At the end of all the books, he thanked everybody at the beginning of the book. He thanks you and he's like, well, I'm praying for you always. So there was intercessory work going on. Um, and that was, that becomes personal for me because there's so many [00:29:00] situations where You're in something and then you're beginning to change and you're going in a different direction.

[00:29:06] Kind of like I am with this. I'm nervous as a cat doing this stuff. I can talk about golf all day long, but if you go into it with this, like, you know, I'm thankful to be here and I've prepared and I'm going to now just do my best and I pray before the time. And, you know, hopefully, thankfully I deliver the message that I should, because I've always believed in, this is to the communication.

[00:29:30] The message is only as good, is what it's understood and that fits with Paul's thing. And that's what you do nicely too is like, all right, you're a pastor, but I know you always weren't going to be a pastor and the communication, I'm sure was a learned skill. Yes. Oh, a hundred percent. I, uh, I think people, there are, there are people that are naturally good communicators.

[00:29:52] But learning how to put things together learning how to say things in a way that people can understand and I still miss it All the time, you know, you got audiences with 13 year old teenage [00:30:00] girls in the room and you got, you know 70 year old businessmen who were super successful and everything in between single people married people different cultures different backgrounds different ways of thinking of things So I think the goal is I love what you said because I do think gratitude is a precursor to confidence Okay, I think if I'm very grateful for whatever opportunity I'm in Uh, even if I'm a little insecure about it, there's a confidence that shifts in that because I'm just so grateful to have the opportunity like it could have been anybody, but it was me and that just brings a confidence to know that somebody thought you were good enough to give you whatever opportunity it is.

[00:30:33] You might even even all the way down to parenting. Like God trusted you with children and like you're grateful to have them so it should give you a confidence even when you're insecure about what you should do and what decision you should make with them. So having a heart of gratitude is always a precursor to more confidence in any area that you're leading.

[00:30:50] Well, communication is not just verbal, it's non verbal too. And a grateful way, it shows in one's stature, one's comportment. [00:31:00] 100 percent facial expressions. Like it just, yeah, absolutely. I think Mark, what I love about this whole thought, uh, again, we could do three more episodes on Paul. Maybe we'll come back to him, uh, in the future.

[00:31:10] Lots more to get to before that. Yeah, and touch some other areas of his life. But I, I know that for both of us, this is like, I mean, so much of this is our stories, so true. of just living one way, having a moment where things changed. And then refocusing our life and and making sure that you know, what we're doing has purpose in it I mean we started this Out of that idea.

[00:31:32] Yeah that god opened a door for you to do what you do today, and you're so good at it but you've always said since the moment I met you, I know i'm doing this because I have a skillset set to do it, but I've always felt like it was for a deeper purpose and I love watching you get focused around that.

[00:31:47] So, I mean, talk about that a little bit. Just share that story of I knew you were gonna do this. I know on the spot it's great for the people. Yes. I'm not allowed to cry on this show. . Um, yeah. My entire life I've been, [00:32:00] you know, in sport and sport's been a vehicle for me and, and I've, whatever I've managed to achieve and I'm thankful for all of it.

[00:32:08] I've never really, I always really felt like there was something more. And then as I, thankful to my wife, Tracy, because along the way, I sort of, as I look back now, I see these little breadcrumbs along the way, sort of leading me in the journey that I'm on right now. And then eventually it just got to a place where this voice inside, I couldn't resist it anymore.

[00:32:28] Now it wasn't a voice. It was just a feeling. And maybe this was my, you know, my bright light moment. And I, I didn't go blind thankfully, but, but it was like, okay, now it's something to do about this. And. The cool thing about it, Kyle, is it brought an energy, it brought an excitement, and it brought kind of like this Childish sort of a freedom to just want to now read the Bible a bit more because now I've got something to do about it.

[00:32:58] I can't just be faking [00:33:00] this. I can fake golf stuff a little bit. I can fake golf announcing, but there's no faking now. And then, cause I do know as a long time golf teacher, coach in the Bible, one of the Proverbs is, you know, if you're a teacher, you know, there's a little extra judgment for you when you get into heaven one day because you're responsible for other people.

[00:33:22] And so now with this thing on the go, it's, it's, it's made me want to spend more time in the word, which is so, so it's not just, I get to do this now. It's this growth that I'm experiencing in me. And it's kind of like Paul where I haven't changed my name. Maybe I should, um, something cool like Kyle, um, but, but it's changed.

[00:33:43] And now it's, it's like, I don't know. I'm a new creation. Yeah. You're focused. I think that's what it's, it's allowed you to do. Like you're, you're great at what you get to do, but this has brought a different focus, uh, to you and for you. And again, with a vision out of [00:34:00] vision, people perish. So like, even in our jobs, like we can get complacent, you know, humans all drift to the status quo.

[00:34:06] We get comfortable. We know what we can get away with. We know what we can wing. We know what we need to prepare for. Uh, and like you said, when you, when you take something else on, like it, you gotta get refocused again. Yeah. And focus always gives us the opportunity to push past what our natural abilities want us to.

[00:34:20] And in our world as a Christ follower, when we get focused around a mission that's a little beyond our natural skillset, we have to trust God, and that's a great place to be. Great place to be. Behold the old is going. The news is coming. The new is coming. Yeah. Well, news here. Um, closing thought for you real quick.

[00:34:38] Yeah, I think, I mean, if you're listening to the podcast leader, golfer, I think we all lead by the way, in one way, shape or form. I think we think leadership is a title, but we're all leading. Somebody's watching us. It might just be our children. It might be a buddy on our golf team. It might be an employee at our office space.

[00:34:56] It might be a cousin that's distant from us, but we're all being [00:35:00] watched. So you're leading somewhere. I think this is a great question. And I think one of the things that we need to ask ourselves coming out of this podcast is some of these thoughts from Paul, like, how am I doing as a leader? Am I persevering through some tough times?

[00:35:12] Am I getting better at what I'm asked to do? Do I have purpose in what I'm doing? And if I don't, I would challenge people to think about what they're doing for their, with their life and in their career. I think we get so nervous about, you know, I could never quit a job because I've got to provide.

[00:35:26] And I would just say, and if you could find something that you have purpose in, you'll never feel like you work a day in your life. And. I would just, I would, I would ask people to slow down and just take some of these thoughts that we, we brought out and ask themselves the question, like, how am I doing leading?

[00:35:40] Whatever it is that you would say you were leading, and then how do you take one thought from this podcast and put it into place this week, as you've watched this or listened to it, take one thing and practice it this week, practice it in your leadership with a team meeting, practice it at home with a child, practice it, wherever you can take somebody and tell somebody about this, like, and have some accountability around how am I doing [00:36:00] as a leader?

[00:36:00] Cause if you're trusted to be a leader. Leaders always have to be getting better. The moment you stop getting better, that's the moment you've stopped leading. So that's what I would, I would say today. And just, in Paul's story, like whoever's listening, you have never done something too bad to get back right with God or to be used by God.

[00:36:17] And if you don't believe that, please go pick up the New Testament. Find the Bible, find the books of the Bible that Paul wrote and just read his story. Because to think that Paul went from one to a hundred with God. And that you can't go from where you're at to where God wants you to be , it's not the right thought process and I hope the story and I hope today even encourages you To know that you've never done something too wrong to be used by God and to fulfill your purpose in your life to that If you have questions Comments if you need prayer or advice, you can dm us on the social handles x and instagram At the greater call search subscribe to get this on youtube.

[00:36:57] Tell your friends, tell your friends the podcast [00:37:00] is also available at my website Mark Immemman just search for the podcast tab in the meantime just like paul be full of joy in everything no matter where you are be thankful and go and be a legend.