Daniel | Faith in the Lions' Den

In this inspiring episode of The Greater Call Podcast, host Mark Immelman sits down with PGA Tour champion and Ryder Cup vice-captain Webb Simpson to discuss what it means to live and lead with unwavering faith—both in the spotlight and in everyday life.

Drawing powerful parallels between the biblical story of Daniel and Webb’s own journey, Mark and Webb unpack lessons on integrity, humility, and trusting God through life’s triumphs and trials. From the pressure of the Ryder Cup to the daily discipline of spiritual growth, Webb reveals how faith shapes his leadership, his marriage, and his purpose on and off the course.

They explore how Daniel’s steadfast devotion in a foreign land mirrors the challenges of living boldly for Christ in modern culture—and how Webb strives to do the same on the PGA Tour.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How Daniel’s unwavering faith inspired Webb Simpson’s approach to leadership
• Why your inner circle determines your direction — “Show me your five closest friends…”
• How Webb and his wife Dowd put God first in their marriage and found redemption
• The difference between hoping for success and hoping in success
• How to identify idols in your life and re-center your priorities around Christ
• The importance of community, mentorship, and accountability in the Christian walk
• How to stay resolute when faith is tested by pressure, performance, or public opinion
• Why true leadership begins with humility, gratitude, and service

Guest Links:

🎧 Listen to The Bible Caddy Podcast with Webb Simpson — where golf and scripture meet each week
📱 Follow Webb Simpson on social media: @WebbSimpson1

✨ Be full of joy in all things, no matter where you are. Be thankful. Go and be a legend! ✨

Connect with Us:

📲 Follow us on social media: @TheGreaterCall (Instagram, FaceBook, YouTube, & X)
🎥 Subscribe on YouTube: Search ‘The Greater Call Podcast’
📩 DM us for prayer requests, leadership advice, or to share your story!

Website→ https://markimmelman.com/the-greater-call/

✨ Be full of joy in all things, no matter where you are. Be thankful. Go and be a legend! ✨

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to this Greater Call Podcast, episode 10. Can you believe it? And of course, as always, this is your place for lessons in life, in leadership, and in legacy from the heroes of our faith. And speaking of heroes, our guest for episode 10 is a Hero on the PGA tour. He's wearing his right a cup, uh, assistant captain's cap.

There he is. Yep. He's Simpson Web. How are you? I'm good, mark. Thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Gosh, you've been a busy man, fresh off the Radi Cup, playing on the tour, all this leadership stuff you've had going on. Uh, give us a quick whistle stop through the last few weeks, man.

It's been hectic. Yeah, it's been hectic. You know, Keegan asked me to help out as a vice captain in July of 24, so. My only other time as an assistant captain was the President's Cup in 22 here at Quail Hollow, where I am now. But I got asked really late, you know, a month before the tournament. So I didn't really have any [00:01:00] idea of how much goes into planning, uh, an event like a Ryder Cup or President's Cup.

So Market was a, an incredible, just over a year, I guess, 15 months of. Hanging out with Keegan, talking to him often, and the other vice captains, brat, Jim, Gary, and kids. Um, it was an honor for sure to say the least, but we just had so much fun. You know, there was so much fun in our planning, in our conversations at night.

Um, and there's a bit of, uh, you know. Hangover in the sense of we're kind of sad it's over. Yeah. Uh, obviously we wished we were on the winning side, but, uh, it was a, it was, even though we lost, it was a joy to kind of do that with these guys who I've known. You know, I've known Kevin Ner since junior golf days.

Mm-hmm. I do wanna say this before we get to Daniel, um, because look, this is about life, this podcast. It's about being a better husband, better businessman, better wife, better [00:02:00] businesswoman, better, better parents. Mm-hmm. Um, you group of guys were leaders of men. Mm-hmm. A highly pressurized situation. Mm-hmm.

Um, where it seems at times I was up there. Every Ryder Cup just seems like the stakes get higher and higher and higher. Yeah. It's like fail or get skewered. So yeah, you, you talk about the fun, um, um, I know your players are large partners, but gosh, um, you guys did a great job 'cause the team's vibe looked awesome.

Yeah. You know, it was, I would say, I've told a lot of people, Marcus, the tightest knit team I've ever been a part of, I gotta play three Presidents Cups and three Ryder Cups and ca a vice captain of President Cup. Like I mentioned, this is the tightest group of men I've been around. They were selfless.

They didn't care about their own record, they didn't care really who they played with. They just wanted to win points for team USA. Mm-hmm. And Keegan really did help establish that culture from day one. Um, you know, our leaders that you think about on our team, Scotty Shef of [00:03:00] the world, number one, Patrick Cantley veteran, who we, we, we put out there five different times.

Um, he's Justin Thomas. He's a rock. That guy's like an anchor. He he is, he is. And, uh, Justin Thomas, who's kind of the spark of our team. And I, and I really could say nice things about every player. Uh, but it, it was, it was basically six of us, including Keegan, six of us coming together with different giftings.

With different strengths, with different weaknesses, and kind of molding that into one, you know, common unit. And that's how we tried to lead. And it was a joy to, to lead these guys. They made it easy for us, for sure. All right, let me pivot, um, along those lines though, so I'm gonna segue what Webb just said, folks.

I'll mention that before we went hot with the show, I looked at Webb and I'm like, look, more, I've studied Daniel over the last four a few weeks. Mm-hmm. The more I've seen Webb Simpson in Daniel, and he was [00:04:00] very humble as always, and, and he is like, no, I don't think so. But thank you for the compliment because the Daniel person to me, we obviously was a Jewish prophet, um, was a royal official in Babylon.

As a, and this all happened Jewish during the Jewish exile where, uh, Jerusalem, Judea was conquered by, um, Nebuchadnezzar in company from. Mm-hmm. And Daniel had it all. I mean, in the Bible it talks about him being handsome. Mm-hmm. And he was of elite, um, making, he was smart, he was learned, he had it all going on.

But the thing about Daniel that struck me, and it's kinda like you, and it's kinda like the elite athlete at times. Here's a young man that was taken off away from home. Mm-hmm. Away from everything he knows. To a place, a country where there's a different language mm-hmm. Around people that don't worship the same God that he does.

Yep. Uh, e everything's just completely different. Yet he remained resolute to who he [00:05:00] was and what he did. Mm-hmm. Look at a we Simpson. That's exactly who I see. So I'm pointing at you now to just react and respond to that because I, I think there's real leadership goal in that. Well, thank you for saying that and I think you're, you're spot on.

I remember, uh, being taught on this book by a guy named Brian Laitz and he said a number of amazing things. But when, when we get introduced to Daniel, I think most scholars would, would agree that he's about 14 years old. And that surprised me. 'cause I'm thinking we're reading. The makings of a very mature believer, uh, a, a very mature man of God, probably thirties or forties.

But no, this is a boy, as we would say. Mm-hmm. Um, and we, we, we can't help but see that the reason that he was so resolute as used. I love that word. I think, and, and it's easy to assume he was probably that way because he was taught God's word and he had parents most [00:06:00] likely who poured into him. And we're the makeup of kind of who pours into us.

And a mentor of mine says, Hey, take your five closest friends, throw yourself in, divide by six, and that's who you are. Mm-hmm. You know, we, we, we are who we hang out with. We, we become like the things we surround ourselves with. Um. Even, you know, for people listening, if you're, if you don't have a mentor, you're getting mentored by things and people every day, whether you realize it or not.

And so clearly Daniel's mentoring probably from his parents, probably from the neighborhood he lived in, or the local rabbi. He had a deep foundation for God's word. Mm-hmm. And when we're thrown, I mean, as we see in this great book, he was thrown to the lions den. But if we're thrown to the lions den, figurative, figuratively in life, if we don't have good ground and good foundation for what's true, then we're gonna crumble.

Um, because. Life is full of hardships. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, but I think with [00:07:00] Daniel's background of being a lover of God, a lover of God's word, a lover of God's ways, it really got him through those challenges. Like you said, he's in a foreign land, the land of Shanar, uh, a place that.

Was godless, uh, needless to say. Mm-hmm. And so I think the things that I draw from Daniel, he was so resolved and single-minded focused like he was most concerned with honoring God, glorifying God. And no matter what the king threw at him, no matter what these other men threw at him, he knew, he had already made a decision that he was gonna honor God.

And I think. For the young people listening, especially Mark, if, if we're, if we don't decide on the front end how we're gonna live our life and who's gonna be our master, then it'll be too late when we're in a situation of temptation because we'll have no foundation whatsoever to go back to. And so, um, there's so [00:08:00] many amazing themes about, uh, how Daniel lives his life.

But, you know, in the beginning of the book, this is what sticks out to me the most. And what I try to. Remember in my life is, okay, what is feeding me? Yeah. And that, that's gonna transform my mind. Well, there's so many things in my head right now, so I'm gonna try and sift through them and we can deal with 'em one by one.

Mm-hmm. First off. You say what's feeding you? And you talk about the five people around you, and you divide you in those five people by, uh, six and you mm-hmm. That you have yourself. Mm-hmm. Where Daniel Hadie friends, Shadrach MHA in a bad Nigo mm-hmm. Were same faith, same belief, same um, attitude, same make up as Daniel.

And, and they were convicted and committed about their faith too. Yep. But the thing that struck me was. They were in an environment that, like, I'm trying to put myself there. Mm-hmm. And they're in an environment where it's just unsure. Yeah. You're a young person as you point out. [00:09:00] And as I, I, I truly believe in the past, Kyle, who did the show with me to start, he's like, we gotta be training up young leaders now.

Mm-hmm. And everyone watches this to prove themselves and stuff, but to young people, the future is unsure. Like it is for a young Webb Simpson when he turned pro. Yep. But you clung to what you knew. Mm-hmm. From certain, Daniel and his boys did the same thing, and then they went and used their talents and they got jobs in the King's Palace.

Yeah. Because all the Jews were put to work. Right. And they use their smarts and they use their talents and such to find work in the most, the place where they could have the most influence. Yeah. To me is a true, true, true leadership lesson where smarts and such. So they got to work and it wasn't like they were really brash about stuff.

They were just working well and being committed to their God and their routines and their faith, and [00:10:00] such as I've watched you grow through your career, it's been very much. The same sort of thing with you. Um, you know, the PGA torque can be a tempting place. Mm-hmm. Yes. And if good, if people had to ask me to list five guys where I'm like, oh.

Like they look, they, they're not gonna flounder. One of those. So, so I see the comparison and I want you to talk about that a little bit, please. Yeah. Well, there's temptations, like you said, everywhere. Um, and, and the PJ tour is not exempt from that at all. Um, I, I started walking with God my senior year of college.

I turned pro shortly after that, and God sent a person in my life to, to really walk alongside me. But also mentor me. He was my best friend from childhood, William Kane. Mm-hmm. And he was a little further along in his walk than I was, and so he was kinda. Sharing with me the, the books he was reading, he was helping me see scripture clearly and [00:11:00] understand it a little better.

But I, I look back on that time, mark and I think, God, you, you, you always will provide what we need in the in, in the moments of our life, whether we feel it or not. And so God certainly provided a caddy at the time who loved God more than anything, and I kind of tried to emulate my life after him. My habits after his habits.

Um, and so as a golfer, I realized, okay, on the PGA tour, yes, there's temptations, but there's also this ripe field, uh, for harvest, for, for ministry opportunities. Um, just like I, I would argue there, those opportunities in any job, in any career. And yes, our world has. Kind of put on a pedestal sports. And so instead of, you know, not recognizing that, let's take advantage of it, is kind of my mentality.

If people are watching and, and people are listening, well, let's give 'em some good news about Jesus. Um, but [00:12:00] I think there's three ways to see a job. Uh, one is just to get paid. It's, it just pays the bills. Two, it's a career like, we're gonna climb the corporate ladder. It's all about like what level you get to or.

Your job could be your calling. And I think that's where, as my friend Brian says, it's the world's deep need and my satisfaction come together. And so how can I take that calling? Still work really hard. Yes, that's a good thing, but also share with others in my job the hope that I have. And, and those things aren't mutually exclusive.

They can kind of go together. Um, and so I think practically speaking. 15 years on tour. Uh, I've had other believers out on the PGA tour to, to, you know, have fellowship with community accountability. We have the PGA tour bible study that meets every Tuesday night. So I'm getting fed, you know, God's word each week, even though I'm not home on Sundays for church.

[00:13:00] Mm-hmm. Um, but. Really, I think living authentic Christian community is a choice. And you can go seek it out if you want, or you can live in isolation. And we know isolation. Yeah. Breeds, you know, some dangers. And so I would say those are the main things that, that, that have helped me 15 years on the road to battle against temptation, uh, on the tour.

Yeah. There's, there's a story I wanna share. And again, I, I'm, I'm keeping this with Daniel, but you know, we. I don't wanna say exploiting because that's the wrong word, because I've got a very wise leader in, uh, in the PGA tour. You know, you've been in a leadership role there with him mm-hmm. As a face, some very tough decisions.

And the one thing about Daniel, as I read through all of this, I keep getting the words careful and powerful out of him. Because if you read the scripture about him Yep. He was. He still, n Nolton prayed after Nebuchadnezzar had passed on and the new king was taken [00:14:00] over and they made a law that forbade worship of anyone other than this huge statue that had been built.

Mm-hmm. And if you did, or you prayed to another God, you were sentenced to immediate death. Mm-hmm. That was the lion's den thing that transpired. Right. Daniel was like, whatever man. Uh, this is my God and I do this. And it's not like he hid away doing it either he did it next to an open window. That's right.

People that could see him. Yeah. Now the web Simpson, you're not gonna come and beat someone on the head with a Bible. Right. But you way, the way you conduct yourself, the way you deal with adversity more than anything else. 'cause golf is particularly adverse. Mm-hmm. Your manner and then your family with you endowed.

You guys exude this light that just makes people wonder. Hmm. Like Daniel. And so I, I, I want you to, to share the story of you and dad. 'cause I still find this so hard to believe. Yeah. And, and, and I think the world needs to know this story. Please. Yeah. [00:15:00] Well that's a great story. Thank you for bringing it up.

So, you know, we joke that we're doud and I are in an arranged marriage. 'cause my dad first met her at a party before I went to Wake Forest and he said, you need to, you need to date this girl. She's, you know, beautiful. She's funny. She's sweet, blah, blah, blah. So we joke that we're in an arranged marriage for my dad, but we did date all through college.

She's a year older. So my senior year she's graduated, she's living in Atlanta and she's working at a faith-based, uh, screenwriting company, uh, in Atlanta there. And they had company bible study every Tuesday and in a, in a Bible study that she was in, she got convicted of, of some things in her life and our relationship.

So she felt like, okay, what do I do with this? And she, she felt like God was leading her to follow him with everything she had and, and leave, you know, nothing along the way that could get in the way of that relationship with God. So she prayed [00:16:00] about our relationship. She came up to Winston-Salem in November.

She broke up with me and she said basically that, uh, our relationship isn't in a healthy place. And she said, I think you're an idol in my life, and I think I'm an idol in your life. Meaning we're putting kind of stock in each other that should only be, uh, in the place of the Lord himself. Like we have these competing affections in our life, uh, and none of them should rival our affection for the Lord, but yet our relationship with each other is rivaling it.

And so I want to get rid of it. So she broke up with me and Mark. It was, honestly, it was what led me to. Seek the Lord for the first time in my life. I wasn't a Christian at the time, but over that. Oh, I did not know that. Yeah, I was not a Christian. I was very familiar. I was very familiar. Um, but there's a great story, uh, in the New Testament about the, the Pharisee and tax collector.

And for the listeners, if you want some extra reading, go read that. Um, but basically [00:17:00] I was the Pharisee and my prayer would've consisted of. Thanking God that I do all these great things and thanking God that I avoid all these bad things. And yet there's this sinful tax collector who Jesus is talking about and comparing his prayer to the Pharisee.

Mm-hmm. And all the tax collector says is have mercy on me as sinner. And so I never prayed a prayer like that of God, I know I'm sinful. I know that you offer forgiveness, but I have to, I have to repent on my sin and trust and believe in you, and I wanna follow you. And so Mark, that was the first time in my life that that kind of change happened.

And so a new relationship with the Lord began. And, uh, we stayed broken up for about a year and, uh, we got back together and, and God had us in much different places individually. Spiritually when we got back together, um, and we got engaged six months later at the beautiful John Deere Classic [00:18:00] and, uh, married six.

That's good. Six months after that. Yeah. What a cool story. Now listen folks, we're not advocating that you divorce your wife or your husband or whatever the might be, but what you're saying here, and it gets back to Daniel, is just about priorities. That's right. Because the cool thing about Daniel too, and I, I'm just looking at my notes here, um, it was.

Daniel two 14? Yeah. Or, well, first off it speaks in one 17. He was blessed because of his diligence, Daniel as is, and his diligence was just putting God first in everything. Mm-hmm. Even though he was in an arena and an environment where God was not a thing. Mm-hmm. It was a sin to worship somebody else. He was blessed with all kinds of, uh, understanding and knowledge of literature and learning, and so all of a sudden this wise young man, Daniel was just blessed in abundance with everything else that equipped [00:19:00] him then.

Mm-hmm. Accelerate up the ranks in Nebuchadnezzar, the King's palace. Mm-hmm. And, and so I'm looking at this going, not that this is transactional and we are looking at this God as like a heaven, heavenly cash register to say, okay, I'm gonna do the right thing and wait for everything to happen. Mm. But I'm looking at you endowed going.

You guys did the right thing, you got your priorities in place. Mm-hmm. And now you, you know, you like the elders of the PGA tour with respect, you know? Mm-hmm. Where young aspirant Christians or believers or people looking for a mentorship and advice turn to you guys. Mm-hmm. Council. Yeah. It's really special.

And, you know, uh, mark, one of the things we've tried to do with our kids is be really transparent about our mistakes. And we don't wanna sugarcoat 'em. We want to. You know, we want to answer their questions truthfully. Um, and, and we do, we, we have the opportunity each year to host a, you know, 50 to 75 college kids in our home the weekend before Christmas.[00:20:00] 

It's called College Golf Fellowship. And they come in and we kind of tell our story and, and we wanna make sure they know that even though it ended well, we got back together, you know, we were forgiven. Um, we got married, we have kids. On and on. There was a lot of heartache. There was a lot of wrestling.

There was a lot of sadness when we did break up. And, um, and so we want to be clear about that. But there's a, there's something that I, I, I like to put words to when it, you know, I, I mentioned the word idol, and what I mean by an idol is, is is something, it's a good thing that we make an ultimate thing, really in a nutshell.

And no, but it was for me. I'm gonna interrupt. Yeah. I taught for the longest time, and then I was blessed with a career in announcing, which kind of takes me away from the concern of the elite golfers golf score. Yeah. And I at one stage found I was idolizing live scoring. It would be [00:21:00] glued to this stuff.

For real. Now listen to this. It's actually, and there's a lesson in this people where web talks about idols. I found that my mood was being affected by the shot tracker. Mm-hmm. It may have been wrong, but if I see some guy I'm teaching and there's balls scattered all over the shot tracker, I'm starting to take that personally.

And it was the most unhealthy place to be. Man, I cannot tell you how bad it was for, for even my health, my physical health. Yeah. Oh yeah. I can totally relate. I mean, anything in our life, even good things, like I said, can become ultimate. And if they become ultimate, ultimate, they're an idol. Um, and so that was the case for Doud and I, and then even in my own personal story, uh, shortly after I became a Christian, uh.

The A CC Championship my senior year was a tournament. I always wanted to win. Okay. I finally won my senior year. I shot 14 under. I won by six. I set a scoring record and everything was great. On Sunday night, Monday morning, back in Winston-Salem. I wake up and I have this pit in [00:22:00] my stomach, and I don't know what it is.

It's this kind of gross, empty feeling, and I couldn't put words to it. I'm sitting there in bed thinking. What is going on? I just won the tournament that I've wanted to win since I was 14, 15 years old. Mm-hmm. And I just did it in record fashion, and yet I feel so bad, like I feel empty. What is this? So I called a, a pastor friend of mine, Dave Owen.

I said, why do I feel this way? And he said, well, just hearing you talk about it and how much you've thought about it, you've really put it on a pedestal. He said, the a CCC Championship has become a functioning idol in your life where. If you win it, you think you'll be satisfied, but now you're realizing it can't fully satisfy you like you thought it could, and if you didn't win it, it would never forgive you, meaning.

You would continue to think about it, how you didn't win. Yeah. It's a lose lose. And he said, Jesus is the only one who can fulfill both functions of the idol. He can satisfy our, our deepest longings [00:23:00] fully. Mm-hmm. And then he can forgive us of our sins, which is our greatest need in life. And so that was like one of my aha moments as a Christian of, whoa, this idol thing is like a real thing.

I mean, even here in the story of Daniel, they're creating idol, gods literal idols. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. One of the, for the folks who don't know the story, uh, Nebuchadnezzar has this dream. He calls in all of his diviners and his sorcerers and all the mystics and stuff to, uh, interpret this dream, and he threatened them with their heads.

Mm-hmm. Um, no one could. And then the message gets to Daniel from mm-hmm. King's advisors. And it says here that Daniel, Daniel responded with wisdom and tact. Mm-hmm. Well, there's leadership in that too, when you speak to someone to speak well. Mm-hmm. And he goes, it's impossible to interpret that dream. [00:24:00] And I paraphrase, of course, because only the God of the heavens and the earth can do that.

Mm-hmm. And. If you gimme a chance, I'm gonna allow God to speak through me basically. Right. And the dream was of this idol in Nebuchadnezzar's dreams that represented that eventually with all the powers and all the kingdoms and stuff, God was still the God overall. Mm-hmm. And he interpreted this dream and he did such a good, tactful job of it.

That even though he was giving Nebuchadnezzar information that wasn't so good. Mm-hmm. 'cause he thought he was the most powerful man in the land. The king. Mm-hmm. Daniel's going no bad. Um, you know, you might be the king of all of this and you're over everything, but God's still the Lord of all. Yeah. Then, but Kza comes down there and he goes, yeah, folks.

Well, Daniel's God is the God of all the gods, right? So I, I'm, I'm like thinking about this whole idle thing and I'm thinking about what you sharing, and I'm having this moment too, to say. [00:25:00] We always advising aspirant leaders and successful athletes and whatever the case might be, to work hard. You've said that?

Mm-hmm. To have goals. Mm-hmm. That they're kind of like your mile marker purse. Yep. But then if you're too married to that stuff, then you get all tightened concerned and you get anxious for the future. Yeah. And you get worried about what the past has happened and you don't play with freedom. Correct. You can speak about playing golf when your swing feels like it's locked up.

With anxiety and stuff. Yep. And I've always wondered about this tightrope that there's between caring enough and caring too much. Yeah, no. Yeah, it's a tough one. And, and I'm having this moment inside of me now after you shared the thing about the I idols where it's like. Yeah, you can work hard and you can aim for the, a CCC championship.

Yeah. You can aim for your company to break all the sales records, whatever the case might be. Yep. But you're not married to that stuff and it doesn't define who you are. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Mark a, [00:26:00] a, a game changing moment in my faith. Was actually a trial. God uses trials in our life to teach us the most amazing things.

And you know, as Christians we say, Hey, I don't want to go through that again, but I'm thankful it happened. Like I don't, I don't want it to be undone. And, you know, they banned the, the belly putter. I used the belly putter for 11 years. This is in January. This is the coolest. This is the coolest story. So January 1st, 2020.

Uh. I guess it would've been, sorry, January 1st, 2016 is when it became illegal to use a anchored putter. So after the Ryder Cup in 2014, Paul says, Hey, let's get a year ahead of this, uh, Paul Paul's catty right now. Paul Tesori. Yeah, Paul Tesori. He said, let, let's go ahead and use the short putter this fall.

We're going to Japan. We'll use it next year on the tour to kind of, uh, get ahead of it. And right before I went to Japan, I was freaking out. I was having anxiety. I can't use a short putter. I'm not gonna put well. And I'm battling back and forth while I see the belly [00:27:00] putter in my vision, my actual vision in the, in the garage.

And I go over to it and I know what I'm gonna do. The only way I'm gonna not take the putter to Japan is if I break it. So I literally broke it over. It's the, I've never had a break of a club where I've been happy. It was a happy break. So I broke it and I realized, okay, I can't take it. And um, and I took the short putter.

But all that to say, I had this moment where. A buddy of mine in my small group from church prayed. I, I just kind of confess, Hey man, I have anxiety with putting, um, I get way too nervous, blah, blah, blah. And he's praying for me. He didn't even realize what he prayed, how it ministered to me, but he prayed this short line of Lord, I pray that Webb would hope for good putting and not hope in good putting.

And market changed. It literally changed my life because I realized, okay, here, speaking of idols, here's another idol I'm functionally believing. If I just put better, then I'll be happy. All my problems in life will be solved. [00:28:00] And to the listener, you name it, you put in there, I know you could, we could all come up with something at all times.

If I just had this, if my son would do this, my daughter would do this. If I, you know, young listener, if I could just get into this college, then Well, the thing is, we're just revealing that we have an idol, but as you said, mark. There's nothing wrong with hoping for it. I hope to play good golf. I hope to make putts.

Um, but there's that subtle shift that I think we gotta be honest with ourselves. Okay. Am I hoping in it or for it? 'cause there's a big difference. Yeah. Uh, and it'll make all the difference. Well, Daniel, as I read through it, I mean, I, one of the words I've written down various words that sort of describe him and I've said careful and prayerful.

Mm-hmm. Courageous and committed to the faith. 'cause there was a lot of courage in what he did. Where you're talking about this hoping for and not in. Mm-hmm. That takes a healthy heaping of courage. Yeah. And Daniel, there was hope to the man as well, even though he was [00:29:00] exiled to a different country. Mm. And even though his friends were chucked in a fire.

Yep. Right. They came out unscathed. Incidentally, for the folks who don't know the story because of their hope, and God Almighty. Um, even though he was ho he was hopeful and prayerful when the king moved on and the new king of a different, uh, race of folks came in and they changed the rules, he still prayed, prayed to God all mighty, and he was still hopeful, um, for the return to Judah and Jerusalem.

Mm-hmm. And, and you're right. Hope is a thing. Mm-hmm. And I heard somebody say that is any person that's bad to hope because hope places undue expectation. Hmm. I remember thinking to this going. I'm wrestling with this idea. 'cause if you don't have hope, what do you actually have? Right? Yep. I think hope is a good and godly thing.

Um, you know, there's that proverb, hope deferred makes the heart sick, which is true, which I think people will take that and say then what's the point in hoping, but. [00:30:00] Uh, hoping is a great thing. I think it, I think it encourages us, it energizes us. Um, and honestly, mark, some of my greatest moments as a Christian have, have come when what I've prayed for.

The answer is actually no, because I find that, okay, where am I gonna go if I didn't get the answer I wanted? I have no one else or nothing else but God. And there's a psalm that I love. Psalm 73 verses 25 and 26, whom have I in heaven? But you? There's nothing on earth I desire besides you. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

And so we are to hope. Yes, we're to hope for things, for people, for relationships. Um. But sometimes the answer's no. And, and, and that's okay. Yeah. Like God can take something that broke and make it whole. He can take something that's bad and make it good. I mean, he took you and I who were dead and made us alive.

Mm-hmm. Um, [00:31:00] but Mark, you brought up Daniel. I, I love the part where he, he basically says back, even if like our God is able to rescue us, but even if he doesn't Yeah. Like we are staying faithful to him. I'm paraphrasing that, but there's this, this attitude and mentality of God, we believe that you can do this, but even if you don't, like, I know you're good.

I know you're good, and I know you're gonna work something miraculous from it. I, I, I have in my heart, after everything that you've shared, which has been touching and m enlightening. Okay. And, and you've brought such a personal, um, bent to it as well. Um, I'm going to Daniel 2 27. Okay. And it goes, um, Daniel declares to Nebuchadnezzar that no earthly wise man or magicians or whatever can reveal the king's dream.

Mm-hmm. And then he says, instead, only the God in [00:32:00] heaven can reveal his mysteries. Mm-hmm. And then he goes about, um, explaining the dream. He gets all these gifts and titles and stuff lavished on him. Right. Two kings, not just Nebuchadnezzar another king as well. 'cause the other king said if anyone can, uh, 'cause there was the writing on the wall.

The finger writing on the wall. That's right. No one could do it. And Daniel comes in and he says, this is what it's gonna be. And it was really bad news for the king saying he was gonna lose his power the following day. Mm-hmm. And the king said, anyone who can figure this out will be given a purple robe and a medallion around their neck.

And Daniel goes, I don't need that stuff man. Um, I'm glad they're gonna do this job for me. Hmm. Now I'm looking at Web Simpson and I share that paraphrased anecdotes. And you won the 2012 US Open. You've won on the PGA tour seven times. One of those was a players championship. I've interviewed you after a victory at the Wyndham Championship, which was so special 'cause that place like a happy hunting ground for you.

Mm-hmm. Um, and [00:33:00] here's Daniel massive achievement. He did something nobody else could. Mm-hmm. And he goes, it wasn't me. It was God. Mm-hmm. Now, when I've interviewed you go, well thanks very much, but you know, I want to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Mm-hmm. And then there'll be a cadre of folks that have to go, oh yeah, they go again.

But, but it's not like when you say that stuff web, I'm like, shocks you brave. And then I'm thinking, God, you're so authentic. And then I'm like, this is so genuine. It's not fake news that you're professing there. And there's certain athletes like that too. And it takes its courage. Daniel did it. You did it.

So I want us, I want you to help the leaders doing this to say, look, you might have an environment where a lot of folks don't believe in Jesus. Mm-hmm. But you still gotta be upright and declare who you are and who you follow. Yeah. Lets help us. Great question. Uh, one Corinthians four, seven, what do you have that you did not receive?

And [00:34:00] so another verse. Uh, every good gift and every perfect gift comes down from the Father of Lights book of James. I forget the verse. Um, but yeah, I believe that any good in me, any talent, any uniqueness, any skillset is a gift from God, uh, that is to be used. If I dumbed it down in a nutshell. To glorify him and then for my good, right?

And so, yes, part of my gifting is to glorify God. Part of my gifting is provide for my family. Part of my gifting is to, uh, bless others along the way, bless my team, however I can encourage them. And so I think for the leaders listening. It's a humble and good and godly thing to acknowledge everything good you've ever done is a gift from God.

Like the fact that our hearts are beating, our minds are aware, our blood is flowing. Is all command of God right now. He is sustaining us. He spoke the world [00:35:00] in the beginning into being. He's upholding the universe by the word of his power. Scripture says. And so if every good gift comes from him, I want to take those good gifts.

And I don't wanna harbor them for selfish gain, selfishness. Um, I wanna bless those and bless those around me. And so for the leaders. The CEOs like, you have a great responsibility. Like people are looking at you, watching your life there, hearing your words, and so I just think there's an extra responsibility that you have, but it's also an opportunity, not just a responsibility.

It's an opportunity to bless people along the way and make your workplace a place where people love to work there. It's a happy workplace. It's a, it's a hard working workplace. All those things kind of come together, I think in a great work environment. Um, but just remember that our good gifts, like I said, come from God.

And so we need to honor him and that give him the credit and um, and, and, and [00:36:00] bless him because he is blessed us. How about I say this? I've always heard that with great response. Uh, with mm-hmm. Gifting comes great responsibility. That's right. With great Cal talents come great responsibility. That can be taken in a very linear sort of a fashion where you're like, alright, uh, I'm really good at, you know, being a CEO over a company or a great golfer or whatever.

And I, my responsibility is to do this and to do that. But the responsibility rarely is the legacy that you leave mm-hmm. By way of the people around you. Mm-hmm. And ultimately it's in a position of servitude. Mm-hmm. I know a lot of leaders and powerful alphas won, don't want to hear that sort of thing, but the reality of it is.

Mm-hmm. And if you look at Daniel, he was the smartest guy on the block. Yep. Yet he always, even though the king didn't share or or the people he was [00:37:00] serving, you know, didn't share his belief system. Yeah. He was still very humble. Mm-hmm. Very respectful, very tactful. Always in service to them despite this massive gifting that he had.

Yeah, because think about this, right? Here's a guy, young man who's grown up under great counsel, as you point out, was blessed by the spur of God. Mm-hmm. He could go, man, I'm invincible. Yep. And whatever I pray for is essentially gonna come true. Mm-hmm. It does. Well, it certainly doesn't say in the Bible that he ever did that sort of stuff.

Yep. I watched some of you and the leaders on the PGA tour, and there's one dude named Scotty Scheffler who comes to mind. Mm. Right. Where it's man, when I've covered him. He wants to win. Yep. He's gonna, when the golf club's in his hand, he's gonna beat you. Yes. Most every time. Most every time. But then he's just so thoughtful and so unassuming and, and just.

[00:38:00] In a way that it's almost attractive to people. Yeah. Are are you feeling where I'm going here? Totally. Yeah. And, and, and you know the situation and you know what it's like because again Yeah. You've accepted the US Open Trophy. It's the ultimate, one of the four ultimates for any golfer. Mm-hmm. The player's championship is way up there as well.

Mm-hmm. So you've done this big stuff, man, and you're still just a normal guy. Mm-hmm. The leadership lesson in that. So please the party, you try to help people. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I, I look at the great commission, we see it in Matthew 28 where Jesus tells his disciples and he is really telling the future Christians of any day and age.

Mm-hmm. Go make disciples of audacious, baptizing them in the name of the Father, son and the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe all that I've commanded, and I've thought about that a lot lately, mark, because in. Especially our society here in America, we, we really glorify career. We glorify sports, let's say for our [00:39:00] example, and yet the New Testament hardly talks about career in the sense of how important it is, uh, on what we do.

What's important and implied in the New Testament is that we glorify God, we go make disciples. We share this hope that we have. And yes, by the way. We're supposed to work, we're supposed to work hard. We know that. And, and so for me, I'm trying to realize, okay, I want to go after golf as much as I can. I want to give God the glory along the way, but I don't wanna forget my purpose.

My purpose isn't just to be the best golf be, that's a purpose. But my real purpose here is to be a vessel, to be the aroma of Christ for, for people around me. And if God chooses to use golf for me, radio for you. Uh, a mom for other people, like whatever the career path is. I think it's important that we often remember there's a greater purpose here, more than how much money I make, more than how many golf [00:40:00] tournaments I win, um, more than the success of my students for you.

And so I think it's just good. Like we gotta remind ourselves of the, these things often 'cause we're a people who forget over and over and over. We need reminders. Okay. I'm gonna hit you with one more. I know you have another commitment, but I need to know this because this journey is not linear, right?

And, and you say, look, golf certainly isn't linear. Gosh, you could be playing great one week and terrible the next. Yes. And life is the same way. You could be hit with horrible news tomorrow, God forbid. But it's, that's what life on Earth represents. So we've talked about the goodness of all of it, but help us just navigate the shadow of all of it too, because they're dark times too.

Yep. Well, a phrase that I love thinking about, Sinclair Ferguson said that God's greatest act in history was a bloody mess. And he is obviously referring to Christ crucified on the cross, and so my mentor has always said to me, Hey, if he can take the worst [00:41:00] evil that's ever been done, which is the crucifying of the sinless son of God, and he, he used that evil for our salvation, then certainly he's gonna use everything that comes in our life.

That's not easy. Suffering trials, cancer, death, even. Mm-hmm. For, for, for a better, higher purpose. And sometimes, mark, I just, I rest assured knowing that on this side of eternity, we, we don't always know the answers. There's not always the clear, visible bow, uh, that wraps the present. Yeah. Um, but here's the promise.

My favorite thing about Romans 8 28 is Romans 8 29. So Romans 8 28, all things happen for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. And Romans 8 29 talks about how these things that we go through, they're meant to make us more like Jesus. So if something is happening in our life that seems pointless and.

Suffering is full. And we think what good can come of this, [00:42:00] we gotta know that the promise of 8 29 is right there. The very next verse that God is using something really hard and tough in our life to make us more like his son. And so I just say that with respect to everyone who's listening is going through something horrible.

Um, we're either coming out of a trial, we're in a trial, or we're about to go into a trial. So it's just a matter of time. Mm-hmm. But there are promises in scripture that will kind of anchor us to the one who can get us through. I'm convinced that, uh, when you decide to hang the golf clubs up. That you have a career in?

Uh, in pastor. In pastor. You're a preacher, reverend. Oh, well thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you having me on. No, listen. And for the folks who wanna find more from you, is there a social media or website or somewhere they can go? Please? Yeah. So thanks for asking. I do a podcast every week called a Bible Caddy podcast, and basically on it, we, we baked, we just talk about the [00:43:00] golf tournament that just happened and kinda latest current events in golf.

And then the bulk of our podcast is scripture. We just go through a book of the Bible or a series about God's word, and so we do that every week. Go check it out. They can get it wherever YouTube is. They can get it wherever. Yep. We just started YouTube as well. Tremendous stuff. Yeah. And for the rest of you, uh, please tell your friends about this.

Tell your friends about web show, the Bible Caddy Podcast. Uh, and follow us on social media. The handles are at the greater call, um, on every platform you got. Of course, we do have YouTube. You can go and look at web's. Very cool. Uh, United States Team Cap. And this, again, share this with your friends. And remember, we are the place that you must come.

Mm-hmm. Looking for lessons in life leadership. Leaving a legacy and goodness knows, Webb's doing that sort of stuff. Thank you guys for downloading. Thank you for sharing. Thanks, uh, for your prayers. Always. God bless and go and be a legend.[00:44:00] 

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