The Greater Call Podcast – Lessons on Maturity and Obedience | Kyle Jackson on Obedience and Maturity under Fire

Episode 16 of The Greater Call: Obedience and Maturity Under Fire —with Kyle Jackson

In this recap episode of The Greater Call, host Mark Immelman is joined by Kyle Jackson to revisit seven heroes of the faith—and the leadership lessons they teach when life turns up the heat. Together they unpack how Solomon, Daniel, Philip, Abraham, Paul, Isaiah, and James model obedience, character, wisdom, and maturity under pressure—and why God measures faithfulness more than outcomes.

In This Episode, You’ll Discover:

🎙️ Why “obedience over comfort” is often the defining decision of calling

🎙️ How wisdom beats wealth—and why Solomon asked for what he needed most

🎙️ What Daniel teaches about character-based influence (not title-based influence)

🎙️ Why God measures obedience more than outcomes—and what Philip’s story proves 

🎙️ How Abraham models faith through delay, uncertainty, and costly trust

🎙️ What Paul’s conversion reveals about grace, purpose, and second chances

🎙️ How Isaiah stayed faithful without applause—and why standing firm matters

🎙️ Why James calls trials a pathway to maturity—and how to steward your tongue

🎙️ A simple “SOAP” Bible study method to slow down, apply Scripture, and grow

🎙️ Kyle’s next chapter: stepping into lead pastor leadership at Cape Christian Church

Key Themes

Obedience Over Comfort

God’s invitations often require discomfort—and clarity frequently comes after the yes.

Wisdom for the Assignment

Solomon chose wisdom because he needed it to lead well under pressure.

Character Creates Influence

Daniel’s credibility was rooted in integrity, not a position or title.

Faithfulness Over Metrics

Philip left a “revival moment” for one person—because obedience is the win.

Grace and Second Chances

Paul’s story is proof that nobody is too far gone—and purpose can be redeemed.

Standing Firm Without Applause

Isaiah’s faithfulness reminds leaders to tell the truth even when it costs them.

Maturity Under Fire

James reframes trials as training—perseverance shapes leaders who lack nothing.

🔑 Key Verses Mentioned

1 Kings 3 — Solomon asks God for wisdom

Ecclesiastes 3 — “A season for everything”

Daniel 1 — Resisting compromise and staying set apart

Daniel 6 — Daniel in the lions’ den

Acts 8 — Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch

Genesis 22 — Abraham’s obedience with Isaac

Acts 9 — Paul’s encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus

Isaiah 7:4 — “Do not be afraid…”

Isaiah 7:9 — “If you do not stand firm in your faith…”

James 1:2–4 — Trials, perseverance, and maturity

James 3 — The power (and danger) of the tongue

Psalm 8:3–4 — “When I consider the heavens…”

Psalm 143:10 — “Teach me to do your will…”

🔥 Takeaways

➡ Leadership isn’t about control—it’s about obedience, character, and trust.

➡ Don’t fear pressure; let it develop you. 

➡ Your influence grows when your integrity stays steady.

➡ Stop chasing outcomes—start measuring faithfulness.

➡ Delays aren’t denial; God’s timing forms your maturity.

➡ Grace can rewrite your story—no matter your past.

➡ Choose your words carefully; the tongue can ignite a fire or breathe life.

🎙️ Follow Kyle Jack

Connect with Us:

📲 Follow us on social media: @TheGreaterCall (Instagram & X)
🎥 Subscribe on YouTube: Search ‘The Greater Call Podcast’
📩 DM us for prayer requests, leadership advice, or to share your story!
📺 Watch full episodes on YouTube: The Greater Call Podcast
💌 Send feedback or topic ideas via direct message

Website→ https://markimmelman.com/the-greater-call/

✨ Be full of joy in all things, no matter where you are. Be thankful. Go and be a legend! ✨

Transcript

Kyle Jackson on Obedience and Maturity under Fire

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Greater Call podcast. I'm your host, mark Morman, and so glad to have the OG back with us. There he is. It's Kyle Jackson who is now, um, well, in a few months time, Kyle are gonna be officially the lead pastor at Cape Christian Church down in southwest Florida. Congratulations, man. I'm so happy for you.

Thank you, my friend. Uh, I came outta nowhere. I know all of our friends in the Columbus area and with Church of the Highlands that uh, tune into the podcast, know the story and others of you that are listening, just, uh, the simple way to put it would be just didn't see something coming. God opened a door and it was the perfect door, and the question was.

Uh, obedience or comfort. And, uh, you know, we've always said we would be obedient to whatever God asks us to do, even when it's uncomfortable. So, such a cool story and, and, uh, thankful for friends like you [00:01:00] and others that helped push us that way, that way. And even as I think about that, mark, I think, you know, that's the direction we're even gonna go today, recapping a lot of these heroes in the faith with their lessons and their leadership.

And, uh, a a lot of what these guys, uh, and leaders had to do was, uh, was lean into. Obedience and calling. And, um, that's true in all of our lives, not just in people that work in ministry, but those of us in the business world. And, um, I think we're gonna have a lot of great things to talk about today, man.

No kidding. First off, I want to delve into you a little bit more because, um, we've, this is the second recapping podcast we've done. Folks, if you, uh, the goal behind this Greater Call podcast is to introduce you to heroes of our faith. And I saw this quote today, which kind of hit me, and it was summarized.

Um, as figures throughout history who demonstrated extraordinary trust and obedience to God, there's you often in the face of admin, uh, immense adversity. And, and the, the first, [00:02:00] every seven podcasts we do the, uh, summary on the eighth and Josh Baldwin joined us for the first one and shared some stories.

Now you're here for the second, and it's crazy to believe that here we are. We, uh. This will be the, I think the 16th episode in, or whatever it is, I'm losing count already. Um, and every single one of these guys, Kyle, even the guys, the seven guys we're gonna look at today, they did. You've often said it's not the ability, it's the availability.

And that's great. Just about all of these guys are always available despite sometimes the adverse circumstance. Yeah, well, I think, I think God has has, you know, put, he put this dream on your heart to start, you know, using your voice and the influence you have to, to share your faith. And you kindly asked me to come alongside you.

It's been really fun for me to watch over the last several months as we've brought some guests on that have influence in different areas of the golfing community, uh, other churches, uh, worship leaders that are, you know, have a ton of [00:03:00] influence around the world. But as I've watched those episodes. Uh, I just feel like God continues to bring us back to that theme.

And I even wrote this down, mark, that, that goes along with what you just said. As we recap all these leaders, uh, today, is that really all of these biblical leaders, uh, they discovered the same truth in all of their stories. Whether they're in a lion's den, whether they're in the belly of a well, whether they're fighting a giant, uh, uh, or whatever it is they might be doing.

It's that, that the same truth is always true. Leadership. At the end of the day, biblical leadership when what we're talking about, you know, isn't about control, it's not about comfort. It's not about clarity. It oftentimes just boils down to obedience, uh, character, and then trust. You know, God asks you to do something, will you do it even if you don't have clarity and just trusting that you heard from him to do it and he's gifted you to do it, and he is opened a door for you to do it.

And I just think in our life, we want control. We want clarity. We want timing to always work out. And I get that. You know, I, I'm that way, you're that way. Everybody [00:04:00] listening. That would be the preferred method, is to know exactly what you're asking me to do and to be perfectly on time and to work out, you know, the way that we want it to work out so that we can control it, but.

All of these guys' stories and even the guests you brought on the podcast, it always keeps boiling down to obedience. Um, and just their character and trusting that God would come through for them in every story. So if God brought us together to do this podcast, just to, to hit that nail over and over again, hear God's voice, be obedient, grow in your character and your integrity, and trust that God's way for your life is right, then we will just keep hammering that nail man.

There he is. Preacher, appreciate you bringing the truth. As always, folks, thank you for downloading this one. Share this with your friends. Go check us out, search and subscribe. Hit that like button, subscribe button on YouTube if you want to check out what we're doing as well and you want the visuals of it.

Got some really nice messages incidentally of late. Uh, welcome to all you new fans of the podcast. Long time listeners, thank you. But I'm getting some really nice messages from people [00:05:00] saying that this podcast was enjoyable. I learned so much from that one. That kind of is fuel for me, Kyle, and it's so nice to start to get some interaction from some people.

Yeah, that's awesome man. I think, I think people are always listening more than anything. They're always watching. And, uh, you know, uh, I think the, the goal of this podcast is to take how you live your life, how I live my life, and. You know, neither one of us are perfect, but to put the lessons we've learned and put them into words so that people that aren't in our day-to-day life could hear something that maybe they can't see that would encourage them in their life.

And I think the comments do the same thing for us when they're commenting back that it's helping, um, that makes us, you know, feel like what we're doing is, is the right thing. So all of you that are listening, uh, regardless of why you're listening or, or who forwarded it to you, thank you. And, and the goal, I think, with every one of these is.

You hear one thing and then our goal, my goal is to make it practical that you could go live it out in your life tomorrow. Uh, not just be inspired by it. Mm-hmm. And also, as you've always said to me, [00:06:00] just to speak life. So go and bless somebody with this podcast. Yeah. Or you, if you've got some insight to share, we'd love to hear from you too.

Okay. I would just say that if you're tired of listening to negative stuff all the time, we're not gonna talk about negative stuff. We're gonna talk about things that, that bring life to you, breath to you, joy, to you. Uh, and value to you. So share it. If you, if you're tired, if you've got a friend in your life that's always sharing all the negative news with you, share this with them and bring some positivity to their life.

Okay? With, with that in mind, Kyle, I promise I won't speak about Auburn football in the, there we go. Hey, there's positivity. There's positivity. Um, seven guys, we're gonna recap again, all of these podcasts were done in their entirety. If this is the first one you're listening to, go check them out wherever you get your podcast.

We're gonna talk about Solomon. We're gonna talk about Daniel. You know that dude in the lions den. We're gonna talk about Philip the evangelist, uh, Abraham. Um, we're gonna talk about Paul for a second time. Ted Scott came on and talked about Paul after. Yeah, that was [00:07:00] great. Yeah. You wanna go back and listen to any of 'em?

Go back and listen to Ted. He was excellent. Um, and then we talk about Isaiah, and then of course James. Brotherly advice was the title of that podcast. Mm-hmm. Right. Lemme kick us off, Kyle. Um. The podcast was called Leadership Goal. I had Scott Lehman from IN'S Grip on the show to talk about Solomon and, and the thing and what Kyle and I are doing are just taking things that sprung out of the story that, that sort of resonated with us.

There's so much you can learn, but we picked just one element, and Kyle, that one element for me, for Solomon was when he was offered anything by the Lord God Almighty, he chose wisdom. Remember, um, riches and fame, and then there's something else I that sort of stuck out to me. And this was one A and one B.

And this came from, um, Ecclesiastes, where he said there's a season for everything. [00:08:00] Yeah. And I feel like that, and that's sort of how he ended the whole book, which was kinda lots of lamentations. And he eventually came upon the fact that, look, all the stuff we're chasing after fame, fortune, money, the whole lot, in the end, it's all about God.

And that there's a season to everything. There's a season for crying, a season for laughing, et cetera, et cetera. But here I am. I mean, but still this guy, for any leader, for any father, mother, teacher, coach, he was offered anything. I mean, anything. Whatever he desired was the words. Used and he said, God, I would like wisdom.

Mm-hmm. And he became known as the wisest man on earth. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and I just find the mindset behind that. 'cause I guarantee you, bro, if you were able to, and you came to me and you're like, mark, I'll give you, I have many dollars you want, man, I would be like, yeah, sign me up. But he turned away from the temporary.

To go for almost, I wouldn't call it eternal, but some, a gift that [00:09:00] is eternal in wisdom. That's great. No, I, uh, you know, again, bouncing it to me on what I took from it. Um, I think what I took from it is just really the ping pong Paul right back over to you on why he chose wisdom is I think that his assignment.

That he was given wisdom. His cry for wisdom was just a cry of his heart from That's the only, that's what he needed to accomplish. Yeah. What God had asked him to do. Because, you know, the, the, the point of the matter is he was appointed king, super young. Mm-hmm. Um, he didn't ask for all of these responsibilities, yet he finds himself underneath him.

And when I think about Solomon, um, I think about wisdom, but I also think about what a great example for us that he pressure was his classroom. Mm-hmm. And like he didn't, he didn't know everything before he had to delete everything. He hadn't faced every situation before. He had to make a decision about a situation he didn't get to.

Watch decisions made by somebody else before him, [00:10:00] before he had to just be in the heat of making them. Uh, and like you said, I think he chose wisdom over temptation. I think he chose wisdom over political pressure. I think he chose temptation over immense pressure. Um, and it was required because he became king at such a young age.

So I think the thing I always loved from Solomon is, yes, he was the wisest man that ever lived. He asked for wisdom. But he gives permission to step into something even when you don't know all the answers and you don't feel like you're smart. I think that the number one thing I hear from people is I just don't know if I'm smart enough.

Yeah. I don't know if I have what it takes. I don't know if I have the wisdom to lead that, to take that on, to buy that business, to lead that department to step into what God's calling me to do. And I just think Solomon allows us to see that it's okay, that we can step into the pressure. Even while we're in the classroom, we can learn as we go.

We can fail as we go. But when God's called it, he'll give you what you need to accomplish it. Which for Solomon was wisdom. I think you hit the nail on the head there with the entire thing. But I wanna pick out [00:11:00] something you said. You said to learn as we go to fail, as we go. Because you know when you read the Bible and I sit under your ministry and your council on a Sunday or when we have coffee or whatever, uh, you read Bible stories.

There's some bad news, but it's largely that, you know, the hero's gonna win kind of thing. But, but it's not like it's all plain sailing for these dudes, you know? No, no, no. Yeah, and that's what I, I want people to realize is when you embark on one or other brandiose project, you might not be, you know, king of the Jews, kind of, kind of, right.

But whatever your role is, there's gonna be ups and downs. But if you seek that God godly wisdom, and you put your best foot forward and you put God first in everything. There'll be some trials and tribulations, but you will make it through to the end. I think that's the one thing you can glean from all these Bible stories.

Couldn't, couldn't agree more, man. Could not agree more. It's the Bible's an incredible book to read, whether you're a Christ follower or not. If it would just encourage you to go read a bunch of guys. Who did [00:12:00] something they thought they were asked to do. They struggled through it, but they made it through it.

And that's why we're talking about 'em is they're heroes of the faith now. Not mainly even because of what they accomplished. Sometimes it's because of what they went through to accomplish. It is what encourages us in the, of that quote I read in the face of immense adversity. Yeah. Right. Uh, pressure doesn't, pressure doesn't disqualify leaders.

It develops us. Yeah. So I think sometimes pressure, we feel like it's gonna disqualify us, but if we're, if we're really leaned in it just, it's the thing that develops us pressure under fire. You know, we could give a thousand illustrations on how pressure is the thing. That when you add pressure to something, that's what ends up forming it.

Um, and I've always said, you know, when it comes to pressure, whatever's on the inside is what will come out on the outside when pressure's put on. Mm-hmm. So the only way to develop is to have pressure on your life. Let that pressure squeeze you some, make some mistakes, say the wrong things, do the wrong things, and hopefully you've put yourself in enough relationships around you that there's grace for your mistakes.

Um, but man, keep going, [00:13:00] keep moving is what Solomon teaches us. Mm. And I do wanna wrap again, if you haven't read the story of Solomon, go all of these stories read like movies if you honestly read them. Um, but then Ecclesiastes, where it's like he's aging, you know, death is close. He's wildly successful. He is got all the tea in China and all the money in the world, and he lacks for nothing.

And he goes through this basically, it's like he's diarizing all of his thoughts. And there's some lament. There's through a lot of it, he is like, I wasted my time. He said it was like chasing wind is what he described, I think it was. But then I do wanna quickly touch the seasons because again, you is a hugely successful man, seasoned for crying, seasoned for laughing, for failure, season for success.

And as a golf coach, I always talk about the circle of continuity in golf. You have good play in different play, bad play in different play, good [00:14:00] play and it kind of like this all the time. And a lot of folks, when they get to indifferent and bad, they kind of give up the ghost and they change and they do something else or they lose their mental moxie, whatever the case might be.

Whereas if you just stay true to the cycle as Solomon call it, the seasons, and you believe in that, then you'll be coming out of that thing if you continue to do the right thing. Comments? That's right. I couldn't agree more. Alright. I would, I wouldn't say anything other than what you just said. Come on, you're the lead pastor now.

Alright, let's go to Daniel, the guy in the lion's den. Um, I'm gonna kick it to you and say, gimme your, your take on what stands out to you from the hero. That is Daniel. Yeah, I mean, I think Daniel, you know what I pull from Daniel? Gosh, there's so many things you could, um, but I think his, his influence was built.

On his character, not his position. Yeah. Um, and I think that, you know, the world teaches us that position title gives us influence. But I, [00:15:00] I would say that's, I would say that's not, that's not as true as who you are, uh, gives you influence and because of who you are and the influence you have. Maybe the title or the position comes afterwards.

Honestly, the truth is a lot of people get a title or a position before their character's developed, and your, your, your talent can only take you as far as your character can sustain you. Yeah. So I would rather be someone whose character was developed first. Um, and then because of that I had some influence.

And because of that, I got a position because I'm more, I'm less likely to screw it up. If my character was developed deeper before I had a title or a position, then I got a title or a position and my character wasn't developed. You know, the Bible says that pride comes before the fall, and I think that that so many of us in our generation want what our parents had at 50 55, and we want that at 25 or 30.

Um, but the truth is, you know, what we see in our world today is a lot of people falling because they were given something too [00:16:00] early. Mm-hmm. Uh, instead of, uh, letting the process of sanctification, the process of development, the process of mentorship happen in our life so that when we get to where we want to be, uh, we can sustain it with our character.

So Daniel, for me, teaches that influence, uh, was built on character, not just position. 'cause he had a lot of the same temptations and pressure, uh, that Solomon had as well. I want to, Daniel, to me, if I had to pitch the name to anybody, and then if you're watching us do this with your friends, just mention, mention Daniel from the Bible.

And whether you're a believer in Jesus or not, you know, Daniel in the lion's den. It's one of those stories, right? Um, and so that's the story. But when I read the book of Daniel, or the story, the account of Daniel, uh, it, it was struck, a few things struck me. First off, he was shipped away from home. Off to, um, Babylon, right?

Is that correct? Correct. And he was renamed by the king, [00:17:00] so he was given a new name. He was called Belt Shaar, but he might've been renamed, but he never changed who he was. There you go. Well, the world will try to put names on you, right? Yes. So, so that's the one thing that stuck out to me first. And then there's the, there was a couple three, I wanna zip through them real fast.

Um, and then the king had all these edicts and stuff, and Daniel and his two buddies, three buddies, Shadrach, ak, and Abednego, they were shipped off and they miles away from home in a completely foreign country with people who don't believe in their God that they serve. And they basically use their smarts and their talents to advance themselves, but they never succumb to the local culture.

I mean, they could have despaired, they could have got down and depressed. Yeah, they could have been missing home, I'm sure. But they just held faith, uh, fast to their faith in God. And I wanna say they were immovable to a point where, and this is where I'm getting to eventually, is [00:18:00] they, when they ascended in the king's palace, the King orders them to be able to eat the King's food.

Right. So it's a big deal. They refuse to say, no, this is what we eat because we eat that food. We won't be doing glory to our God. And so they ate this stuff, ate just vegetables and stuff, and they came out as the strongest, most handsome people following God's diet. And so then they got advanced even further.

So here's a guy, strong young man, listens to God, doesn't fall for the trappings of luxury, eats healthy, becomes very healthy, and becomes. Like, uh, as you say, someone very advanced in the kingdom there. So I was struck at how he, he clung to God so much so that he didn't even change his diet. That was, was it, it keeps it, it challenges me.

Gosh, you know, because. With all the food we have nowadays, it's so easy just to kind of give up and give in, you know? Yeah. Yeah. [00:19:00] I think that's a lot of our problems. So, no, I think, I mean, I think you, like you said, Daniel, just again, that's, that's what I probably meant in my side of the, the story was just his integrity made him so trustworthy.

Yeah. Um, just from the littlest things of eating food or bowing down or, or. Looking at all that he could have had, but staying true to who God called him to be. And he just did not succumb to the, the pressure of culture, um, or to temptation, and it was probably lonely. You know, something else I take from his story is that, you know, a lot of times when you lead, leadership at the top can be lonely.

Everybody assumes you've got a bunch of friends. Everybody assumes everybody's reaching out to you to go hang out or do things. Most people think you're too busy, so they leave you alone. They don't text you, they don't call you. They don't invite you. So, you know, I think one of the things from his story is that, you know, it can be lonely at the top, but loneliness doesn't necessarily mean failure.

Loneliness could very much mean that you're leading. Yeah. Um, and I think he was probably, those guys felt probably very alone in a culture that was so opposite of who God had called them to be. [00:20:00] Um, but they had a few good friends. You know, it was, it was, it was a few of them. Didn't have to be a ton of them.

It was a few of them. And it just shows the power of relationship that when you have a few people that believe in you and believe what you believe. Uh, you can stand up to anything. What he did too was eventually, uh, there were folks in the King's Palace who were out to get him, and they passed this law, had the king pass the law where this massive statue of King Nebuchadnezzar was built.

And if you didn't bow down to it and you prayed to another God, you were gonna be ordered instantly to death. Right? Daniel didn't shy away from praying to his God, right? So for all you folks in the workplace, he didn't hide away. He risked his life to show off his faith. Yeah, he was resolute for sure.

Yeah, resolute. Love it. Um, onto Philip, uh, the evangelist. Um, Philip's life challenges me, two reasons what Daniel did as well, but now I'm getting personal. 'cause Philip, when he was called, I think it's in Acts. Acts, [00:21:00] he acts immediately. Right. He was a leader of a pretty big church at the time. Oh yeah. He was called to go off.

On a missionary trip and he was like, I'm outta here. There was no thinking about it. He just left where we've had so many heroes like Gideon for argument sex. He needed multiple, uh, requests from God and had to be coerced eventually. Mm. Philip was like, I'm on my way. I'm off to ministry. And then when he met Simon along the road, the Ethiopian eunuch.

Yep. There was something about Philip's character. I believe it was the Holy Spirit. It was just massively attractive. So much so that Simon decided after having a conversation with Philip, that's all it was, meeting happenstance along the road. He's like, I'm following this guy. Yep. So, so Philip challenges me because here's this guy.

He was like, yes, God, I'm up for it. You called me, I'm going, no questions asked. I trust you. Mm-hmm. I was like, go off that he [00:22:00] was sent to something with a g, I can't think of the name. Forgive me anyway. So he is on the road and, uh, met meet Simon. And Simon was, happened to be studying the Bible, had questions.

Philip answered them all in such a charismatic, charming way that Simon was on board and off they went. Mm-hmm. He's manner to me is, is is challenges me. Yeah. I think, you know, when I pull out, you know, the challenge for me with Philip's story is that, you know, it comes back to what we talked about obedience, that God measures obedience.

I think a lot of times we measure outcomes. And like our whole life is outcomes. You know, it's how many listeners to the podcast, how many followers on Instagram? You know, how much did my output, what was the outcome of the output that I, that I just did, whether it be social media or whether it be a business I launched for in the church world, it's how many, how many buts were in seats that Sunday?

What was the offering? How many students came to the student event? How many small groups got registered? We're so worried about measuring outcomes, but God's [00:23:00] economy. Really is measured on obedience. And I think for me, when you talked about leaving, you know, Philip left a revival for one Ethiopian man.

Yeah. Um, and that was because of obedience. And I think, you know, I think all of these people that were recapping Philip specifically, uh, they were judged by faithfulness, not metrics. And we just get so called up in the metrics of if God, I, if God, if I do this, what are you gonna give me in return? You know, God, if I'm, if I'm faithful here, God, if I'm obedient here, what's the return going to me?

I need to know the outcome. I need to know, I need to be able to measure it. And God's economy is just, doesn't work that way. He, he blesses you because of obedience. He's not gonna just give you the way, the way that we measure success is not how God measures success. Yeah. Uh, it's the cool thing. It's so hard.

I get caught up in it as much as anybody. The cool thing too, I did this podcast with Jason Romano, who was with ES ESPN for a long, long time. Then led, he did great PN and he [00:24:00] started the sports spectrum, which highlights Christian athletes, uh, basically in sport. And he told wonderful stories about Philip, 'cause he'd actually done a, um, uh, like, like a, a sermon on it.

Mm. And he pointed out to me something that was right at the end of Philip's account was that Philip had four daughters. And this guy, 'cause think about it now. Parents, you're in leadership too, and we, our biggest leadership job is our kids, Philip's four daughters followed him basically into prophesying and mis and ministry.

Hmm. So clearly this guy, there was, he was, he was overflowing with the Holy Spirit, as they say. I think you're just plugging for your daughter at the University of Alabama who. Uh, is already an incredible broadcaster at 18 that she would follow in the footsteps of her, her father. So it's a good plug though, Izzy, if you're listening, we're proud of you.

God's called you to be a broadcaster and then brother. Okay. [00:25:00] Um, that's Philip. Uh, it was an episode with, uh, Jason Romano. You can go and find it wherever you listen. Um, Abraham again, Abraham's one of those stories where, you know, you think of Abraham and you think of one story where he's sacrificing his son.

In an area where sacrificing kids was illegal, you know, because that's crazy. Um, I, I want your take on Abraham before I share what I took away from his life and the accounts thereof and, and the podcast we did. Um. You know, when I think of Abraham, you know, I just go back to even being a kid in church.

It's like we, we sang songs about this dude, father Abraham. Abraham, and many sons. And many sons said Father Abraham. Um, and when, I guess when I think about Abraham, you go so many different way ways. But I just, you know, Abraham's leadership far outlived himself that thousands and thousands and thousands of years later, kids in.

You know, Texas on a Sunday morning are singing songs about him, and we're [00:26:00] sitting on a podcast in Columbus, Georgia talking about him. And just, you know, when you think about that, my gosh. Like what, what, what? You know, when my life at the end of my life, would anything that I did, will people even remember it?

30 years after I'm gone, three years after I'm gone, 13 years after I'm gone. And you know, when you look at all of these guys. The reason we're still talking about all of them is because they figured out the point of life. The point of life was to figure out why God created you. What problem did God create you to solve?

What gifts did God give you to solve that problem? And then are you willing to get out of your comfort level specifically in America to chase that journey? And I think you can do that in the business world. I think you can do that in the nonprofit world. I think you can do that serving somewhere a couple hours a week.

I'm not saying that you gotta do it like these guys did it. But, but God is gonna ask for an accountant of your life one day. And I think he's gonna ask, you know, what did you do with the gifts and talents I gave you? And what did you do with the thing that I created you [00:27:00] for? Did you ever discover it? Did you ever give your time, talents, gifts, riches to that problem, to help bring glory to the Father?

The Bible says, so, yes, we can raise our hand and say yes to our relationship with Jesus, but the question we're gonna be asked when we get there because God, God's answer to us is you can enter, well done, good and faithful servant. Servant. So what did you do with Jesus that I gave you? Yeah, I gave you Jesus salvation.

Sure. But what did you do with him? Is where I believe the question really becomes important. You don't have to do anything to earn the salvation part, but you are responsible for doing something with it once you've received it. And I think that's where most Christians, I hope, and I watch a culture that's all about God.

You know, everybody wants God to bless them. And God actually created you to do some things that blesses him. And we, and through that you get blessed. But it's, it's, it's counter-cultural. We think if we say yes to Jesus, do a few things right in our life. Read our Bible, you [00:28:00] know, try to eliminate some sin in our life.

He's going to bless our life. And I would actually go, sure. But the true blessing of God is that day that he says, well done, good and faithful servant, because we did a lot of things that blessed him. You bring in the heat pasta. Well, I, I mean, I'm learning, I'm learning that even as a pastor today. You want God to bless the offering.

You want God to have that giver that gives to the building you're building. You want God to give so that you can give to that missionary. You want God to bring influential leaders into your church so your church can spread. You're always asking God to do something for you. When God said, no, I created you to do something for me.

And man, just the more we can work that selfishness out of our life and take the areas that God's open doors. And that's the thing. That's what you're doing. Mark, you're doing this with the podcast. The ultimate goal of the podcast has been, I don't. Know why God opened a door for me to be in the position I am, but he gave me a voice that's clear.

It's concise, it's effective, it's unique, and I need to do something that blesses him with it, not just use it to bless me. And if everybody can find that little niche in their life, it doesn't look like [00:29:00] selling everything you have and go and be in a missionary for everybody and a country far, far away.

It just says no with what I've given you. I've given you a talent, I've given you influence. I've given you opportunity. How are you using it for me? And when Christians can figure that out, man, there is the blessing of God on your life and a fulfillment in your heart that you can't explain. You get off this podcast and you feel good about yourself.

Yeah, and that's okay. Like God wants you to have joy. He wants you to have fulfillment. He wants you to feel loved by him, and you feel the most loved by him. You feel the most joy when you're doing something for him, not when he's doing something for you. I can certainly agree with that, folks, because I have another podcast.

If you don't know. There it is behind me, the on the Mark show and it's all golf. And after I've done an interview, now, maybe it's because I've done it for 11 seasons now, but it's like, okay, another one done. Even if I interview someone special after every single one of these, I, I have a sense of. Joy, you know, deep, deep seated, you know?

Oh, that was great. [00:30:00] Kind of feeling about it. Even pride, but not like in a, not in a prideful way, but just in like a, I'm proud that I have what I have with God and I, I did something. If one person listens to it today and it does something for them, then I, I affected the kingdom just like Philip left the revival.

I think you're on the podcast. Podcast is the revival thing, and this is the Ethiopian man. Yeah. So, yeah, your other podcast has more followers, maybe more influence, all those things. Sure. But God called you to do this. You were obedient and God will bless that I didn't operate as fast as Philip for the record.

And, uh, and, and yeah. And you's my take as a little like Abraham too. And the, the podcast was named Irrational Obedience. And if I got to do it over, I probably would change the name. A lot of that was in response to now he finally has the son. Because remember, our father, Abraham had many sons and God had promised him he would be the father of many nations.

Yep. God had shown him in the heavens how great his descendants would be, [00:31:00] and then he and his wife Sarah, I, at the time were barren for the longest time. And they're like, how are we gonna be the father and mother of many nations if we can't have the children of our own? And then there were all sorts of shenanigans on the go.

Right. With maid servants and stuff like that. Um, but the thing about Abraham that I take away is not necessarily the man, it's the God. Mm. Because God made this promise, and despite Abraham's frailty in spots, mm God still came through on the promise. Maybe it could have come through a little quicker.

Sure. But I think like you always say, you know, God's in the business of molding us into who he wants to become, not to be some heavenly vending machine for us, just to give us every wish. Everyone pulls out that, um, uh, if you give, if you put the kingdom of God before else, and I'll give you the desires of your heart.

And everyone remembers the second [00:32:00] part of that verse. So he has God who, despite what, Abraham, all of the other shenanigans on the go. Blessed him eventually. Yeah. And then as Abraham, he trusted even with like long delays. Yes. And we just let, we live in an impossible culture right now for that to be easy to understand.

You know, we, we don't like a delay. We don't like a three minute delay of sitting down before our waitress ask us for our drink order. Like, we're frustrated at that and we're talking decades of delay. Mm. Before God delivered here in this story. So it's, we just live in this impossible culture to truly understand.

We, we, we live in a culture that's very hard to understand that God's pretty good at his job,

and if it requires delay and it requires decades, it's only because it's what's best for you. Yeah. Well, well, he's the thing too, right? There's the verse that goes, my thoughts are above [00:33:00] your thoughts and my ways are above your ways. Can't comprehend. Yeah. Who can fathom? What I do basically is what God's saying more often than not.

Amen. And he's an eternal being and we are not. We live on a temporal earth. And yes, God in his time, and this is, again, I can't help but take this away where. He came through on his promise. He can't not keep his promises. God almighty Abraham did trust that and then he trusted it so much that when God said, okay, you have your son now.

Mm-hmm. And everyone thinks like Renaissance paintings to me are a bad idea to build your, your biblical belief system on. Because if you see Abraham with Isaac on, on the Alna for sacrifice in the ram in the bush nearby, Isaac is a little boy or baby. Hmm. But it says in the Bible that Isaac carried, helped Abraham carry the wooden stuff up the mountain for the sacrifice.

Yeah. So Isaac [00:34:00] was a big dude, right? Big. Yeah. Right. And Abraham was old, right? So he was that great. A father taught his son Isaac so well, to say God wants this and he as Isaac prepared to climb onto the altar. 'cause I get, I'm, I'm choosing to believe that old Abraham could not out wrestles his son or certainly not outrun his son.

That's true. That's fair. And, and, and so I'm thinking about this and in fact on the car ride home from my recent broadcast, 'cause of all the weather scuttled air travel, I, I was thinking and listening back to the story in Genesis, and it, it was, it kept on resonating with me that decisions I've consequence.

And Abraham was a long time thinker, so here he is, he's about to sacrifice his son. The sun had been waiting for, 'cause he's the father of many nations. Until God goes, no, I'll provide the sacrifice. Mm. And I'm like, gosh, this is crazy Faith. [00:35:00] Mm. I can go, well, I've finally been blessed with that job or the family or whatever I've been praying for, or that leadership role, and you're now finally in it.

And God says to you, yeah bro, you gotta go and do this. Just doesn't fit with your narrative, but it, anyway, it's, it is, it's irrational, man. It doesn't make sense to most of us. I agree. It makes me laugh. I mean, again, it's in all of their stories. That's why there's such a beautiful theme in all of these stories.

It's irrational, it's obedience, it's, it doesn't make sense. And we just, that verse, if people can get it in their head that he can do things that we can't comprehend, like it's just beyond our imagination. Beyond our time, beyond our ability to comprehend. Um, all that he wants to do in us, through us, for us.

But it requires obedience. At the end of the day, every one of these leaders were obedient. Yeah. I, I, I, I'm led to, to read this now and I'm opening my phone, so humor me for a minute. Um, [00:36:00] the verse for the day today and yesterday, it was, when I consider the heavens and your handiwork, this is from Psalms.

Who is man that you are mindful of me. Mm-hmm. And then look at these heroes. And then you put that to yourself and you think, wow, God, who am I really? When I really consider what you've created and you, yeah. And then today's verse was, teach me to do your will for you are, my God, may your good spirit lead me on level ground.

Mm-hmm. And, and to be teachable. And that's why I commend people and I'm learning all the time about this stuff. And each time I read the Bible, I learn something new from the same passage. It's crazy. If I go in there with an open mind and I kind of live the story, that there are just so many life lessons that you might even not get hit with a story.

Like when I first read about David, I was like, wow, this guy's great. He'd knocked over Goliath. But then if you start to kind of live the story, you realize what he went through to get what he eventually achieved. Are you [00:37:00] getting from going here? Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Okay. A hundred percent. We could go on that for days, but yes, we mustn't because you've got about time.

Okay. Uh, more guys to get to. Paul, you and I did Paul the first time. Yeah. My favorite, it's simple for me. He, Paul is two things, Paul is when you encounter the presence of God, you'll never be the same. And I just wonder how many people have actually put themselves in a, a place, a position, an opportunity to experience the presence of God lately.

And if you haven't. You gotta do that. You know, whether it's worship music in your car, whether it's reading your Bible in the morning, whether it's going to church on a Sunday, whether it's going to a Bible study with a few friends, you have to put yourself in a position to experience the presence of God.

'cause when you experience it, something in your life changes. And Paul experienced the presence of God writing and to Damascus, and he was never the same. And then secondly, um, it's a deeper level of [00:38:00] grace. Then I think we understand even as Christians in the body of Christ today, that Paul killed Christians, mocked Christians, spit on Christians, and then wrote two thirds of the New Testament that we learned from on how to be a Christian on the other side.

We're so, we're so quick to discard. You know, not only non-Christians, people that don't even have this value system, we're so quick to judge, but we're pretty equally as quick to judge those that are Christians and throw them to the side for a mistake, or they said something the wrong way or they posted something we disagree with.

And I just think, man, I think Paul's story ought to show you that we don't even, we can't even comprehend that Jesus went to the cross. To die for our sins that that he would look at the guy on the cross to his left who did nothing for him and didn't even believe in him until his last few minutes of his life and say, you'll enter the kingdom of Heaven with me.

And Paul killed Christians and then was given the pen to write two thirds of the New Testament. I don't even think we understand the [00:39:00] beginnings of the depth of grace God has for our mistakes, our lives, our disappointments. We hold ourselves way more accountable than he does. Um, on being perfect or doing the right thing all the time.

Do we need to ask for forgiveness? Yes. Do we need to try to be better? In some areas, absolutely. But when we mess up, there is so much grace for us that I don't think that we can even comprehend. Paul. Done? Yeah. Uh, well, not sure. I want to add what I was gonna add after that. Add in episode three, you and I did it, and when I really got into Paul.

I realized that this dude was like always on mission, always through this podcast, and we called it Unshakeable Mission. 'cause he was always on purpose. He was always on mission. Whether it was killing Jews or, or, or bringing the good news. He was bought in. He was a hundred percent on whatever it was believed.

Yeah. And it was all about mindset and obstacle overcoming and stuff. And the second time we went to him with Ted Scott, 'cause [00:40:00] Ted asked to speak about Paul. 'cause like you, Ted. Who incidentally, for those of you who don't know, is a PGA tour caddy who works for Scotty Scheffler. Lovely guy. He's just an incredible human being who uses his platform for ministry, and we called the show second Chances.

Hmm. Because Ted's like, I got a second chance and I've, and I said, I've got a second chance. And you spoke about Paul who had a second chance and. I'm so glad you went to where you did, because I was just talking about with Abraham how great God is. And it's the same thing with Paul, how great God is. And my takeaway from the second Chances podcast was God can save and convert anybody.

100%. Anybody. Nobody's too far gone. Paul called himself the Jew of all Jews. Right? He, he was worst of the worst. Yeah. And so he gets saved and then fast forward some through all of the travels all over the place while he was on his missions. He and [00:41:00] Silas are tossed in jail for doing the right thing, right?

And they, right, and they're in Rome. And yes, these two cats, they're sitting in jail, in shackles. Now it's not Folks, this is underground, is Dungy as dark. It's cold. There's rats around the place. It's not comfortable. It doesn't look like the paintings you see. No. And they're singing and praise God Almighty in jail.

I'm like, dang, big eye. I wanna be like this human being somehow, but I don't think I can be. I, that that is some sort of conversion over there if you really think about it. Oh, it's, it's a different level. I don't, Paul, Paul messes with me a lot. Paul makes me feel like a, Paul makes me feel like a whiner.

He's a big baby. Well, kind of. We all are really, if you think about it, I mean, think about the trips when he, he was all over the show. Then he showed up. It got shipwrecked on this one island. Dude, that dude, yeah, he's good. He is, he's definitely, he is a hero of [00:42:00] all heroes, man. He's, when I go to heaven, if I, if we get to meet five people, he would be, he'd be in the top two or three for sure.

Wonder what he looks like. Probably grizzled, not like us with our, not like us with our Peter Malar on and our and stuff municipal and, well I haven't, I haven't done John the Baptist on the show right now 'cause that dude fascinates me. But I can imagine Paul kind of looking grizzled and it's the kind of guy, 'cause he talked to he, he said he always described himself when he was like a lure.

'cause he was a learn. He would speak to the Jew, uh, the Greeks in Greek and the Romans in Roman. And, and so I can see him sort of being like quite suave, but not really put together very well, you know, because he's, he's getting beaten up. He's, he's like the exchange student that can speak nine languages, but like, looks like he doesn't really, you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know.

He is nearly as educated as he is. Yeah. Hey Paul, forgive us for this. We highly, uh, admiring of you. Um, again, the podcast was second chances with Ted Scott. [00:43:00] Two more. Um, the podcast on Isaiah, I called it Growing Tomorrow because he was a prophe, you know, the preeminent prophet star of the Old Testament, I would call it.

And Webb Simpson came on to do Daniel with me, and Webb recommended his pastor, Dave Owen, to join the show. And Dave joined us. And Dave, you know, hit me heavy with like deep scripture and stuff. What Dave and I spoke about a bunch in the show was less opinion and just a whole lot of Bible verses. And the one that jumped out to me was chapter seven of Isaiah four and nine, and this is four.

And it says, if you do not stand firm in your faith, you will not stand firm at all. And this was God saying this to Isaiah when he was getting charged. Yes, God's saying you better stand for him because if you don't, you are gonna crumble. [00:44:00] And that was such a call to arms to me, for me. And then I want to turn around and pass that on to any aspirant leader to say, man, you're gonna be, have a need, a healthy heaping of faith and resilience and belief in where you're going.

'cause if you don't, which, wherever the tide goes, wherever the wind blows, you like that, you go midway too. And then you're not a good leader. I mean, Isaiah stayed faithful without applause, you know, he said that, he said a lot of hard things. He had a lot of hard truths. He, you know, honestly, he preached a bunch before he ever saw any fruit.

You know, you know, it's, he's, he's the pastor that. Had 45 people there, but preached as if he had 45,000 people there. Yeah. Um, and he wasn't giving good news if you think about it. Correct. I mean, he, he was, he had to say a lot of hard things and which probably, you know, made him the loneliness, uh, maybe not liked.

Um, all the leadership challenges that we all chase and fear every once in a while is you wanna be liked, you want the applause of man, you. Want [00:45:00] to have fruit when you do something, you wanna say things, but you want people to like you at the end of it. And he just, he was so counter to all of that. He just, again, was resolute and what God had asked him to do, obedient to what God had asked him to say, stay faithful, uh, till the end, even if, if there was no applause.

He just, he's such a great leader to look on if you struggle with fear of man, uh, that if you, you're insecure and the amount of likes on your social media posts matter to you a bunch. He's a great book to go read on just. Saying the truth, not worrying about what people thought about it, not worrying about the amount of likes, not worrying about the applause.

He just, he, again, a leader that stayed faithful to what God had asked him to do. Uh, and for him it was, it was saying hard things, truthful things, hard things. And I think, again, I actually think there's a hunger for that in our world today in our culture for that. I think people want truth right now more than they want.

Something catchy or tweetable or, or cute or, Ooh, it rhymes. I think they, they want the truth. Give me the deep truth. 'cause I'm trying to reason, and I'm trying to create a value system here. Uh, because our, our value [00:46:00] system as a country is so all over the place. People don't know which way to go, but the Bible is the way, the truth and the life and Jesus is the answer.

So I do think as pastors, preachers, Christians, we have to learn how to say hard things in a life-giving way, but they're full of truth. Yeah. I, I shared, uh, chapter seven verse nine of Isaiah verse four, and I can only imagine the situation 'cause God is, you know, pumping his guy up now to go and deliver the truth to all of the people that had strayed from their belief system.

And this is the a verse that was kind of like the, the pump me up thing from God to and verse four goes, be careful, keep coming. Don't be afraid, don't lose hearts, because all of these are smoldering stubs of firewood. Mm-hmm. And what God's talking about are the folks that are gonna come counter against Paul in his [00:47:00] message.

And God's like, chill out big eye. All I'm seeing in these people are smoldering stubs of firewood, just like he looked upon Gideon and who was basically a little loser and said, get up strong and mighty warrior. And, and I want to take that verse personally and go, when you're faced with these Goliaths, you know that God looks upon the thing going, please man.

Mm-hmm. And if you adopt that mindset, then you can kind of go about achieving anything. It might be scarier. It doesn't take away the fear or the apprehension or whatever, but if you choose to try and see things through God's eyes, you know, perspective starts to really change. And that's where spending time in the Bible is such a big idea.

Amen. Amen. The enemy, the enemy loves to make an obstacle in our life look larger than how God sees it. Um, and, and again, like you said, you know, that's why they say the Bible is the sword of the Spirit. The Bible's the only offensive weapon in the body armor of Christ. Mm-hmm. And I think that to encourage anybody, the obstacle that looks very [00:48:00] big to you, looks very tiny to God.

And you need to get into the offensive weapon, which is the Bible, and that'll help you to see that obstacle the same way God sees it. Yeah. All right. Last one. And for the folks who know Kyle, and you know, you know, Kyle has got a 45 minute rule and we've gone over the 45 minute rule. Um, 44 Kyle, but we'll get done here shortly.

Um, last book of last hero of the series, the seven was James. Yep. And James was one of the brothers of Jesus. I didn't really know this, but I just remember when I was a kid, I enjoyed James. A pastor asked me one time, what's your favorite book? And I said, James. And he remember. I remember him looking at me going, whoa, that's heavy.

Okay, because James is Jesus' brother. And for me, that's quite a thing because James was comfortable with letting his brother be the star. Yeah, yeah. But James still got his moment in the limelight when he gets one of the books in the New Testament. No doubt. Yeah. Think about this. Right? And there's multiple [00:49:00] takeaways there.

And the one that hits me so hard is controlling my tongue. Because James calls the tongue a, a spark that can start a fire and the ru the ship, and a restless evil and all these things. See, he talks about minding your words, but James starts off his book. Now imagine if you were called to write a book in the Bible.

All of you think about this. James kicks it off with, uh, wait. Lemme find the right page here. He's so like in your face. Yeah, consider it pure joy mindset shift. Um, that when you face trouble and challenge and all this sort of thing, that it's basically growing you up and it's bringing with it perseverance and maturity.

So, so James opens up his bible to go Yeah. When you face trials and adversity and stuff like that, it's make a joy outta it because this is actually making you a better. Like, geez, you could have LT lit off with something a little bit more polite, maybe straight down the line, you know, and he was [00:50:00] using his tongue for good, huh?

Well, I think James, I think what James does in the New Testament is there's so much in the gospels, the Book of Acts, um, you know about spiritual, uh, gifting, you know, the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is healing people. The spiritual gift of preaching and healing and prophesying in the Old Testament.

And I think what James comes along and does is he says, Hey, make sure that we understand that spiritual maturity is equal to spiritual gifting, and that running around and using all these spiritual gifts without maturing in your faith can actually be dangerous. Prophesying over people. If you're not maturing in your faith, can be dangerous.

Um, evangelizing out on the streets without, without spiritual maturity can be dangerous. Like he's basically saying yes. Has God given you spiritual giftings? Absolutely. But he kind of comes in outta nowhere. In the middle of this New [00:51:00] Testament, after the, the gospels and the Book of Acts and the power of the Holy Spirit, and everybody's using their gifts of, you know, the, the, the, the spiritual gifts that God's placed inside of them.

He says, Hey, that's amazing, but let's make sure we're also still growing. Um, that your ma maturity matters as much as gifting. And you've seen that, right? I mean, you take, you take announcers in your world that are in their sixties and are so mature, and then you give a mic to a 25-year-old who's talented.

Doesn't mean that they don't know what they're saying or, or what they're, they, they don't have knowledge. But it might be how they say it. Yeah, it might be when they say it, it might be who they say it to. Um, so maturity matters as much as gifting and it's the ultimate leadership lesson. 'cause you talk about giftings and if you are a believer, you could look at, you know, all the gifts of the spirit.

But if you are not a believer and you know, leadership is a gift, certainly it's earned. But you're not the only one who got this leadership role. There were the people that were in line for it probably. And that's where if you are mature and you've been through these trials and [00:52:00] such, you are better equipped to handle the challenges.

Like getting back to Solomon, who asked for wisdom to be able to deal with whatever he needed to deal with as the future thing. And I must do this because I butchered the first thing. So here it is, the verse. Uh, it's James one verse two through four. Consider it pure joy, my brothers ancestors, whenever you face trials of many kinds because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance, and you must let perseverance finish its work, listen to that.

You've gotta let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything there. It's, it's a beautiful verse. Maturity. Maturity. Maturity. I think. I think James also tells us that like the world promotes loud right now. Yeah. And I think James is kind of telling us that the loudest person in the room doesn't equal the best leader in the room.

Sometimes the quietest leader, the steadiest [00:53:00] leader, um, in the room could be the one with the most to say. Yeah. And he is a guy. Remember this guy's brother was the savior of the world. Yeah, my man. My man was close. Yeah. And yeah. And so everything James wrote, 'cause he's close, he essentially just watched Jesus.

Correct. Right. Correct. Wrote down what he saw. Correct. And I commend him. 'cause maybe in the beginning when Jesus decides to turn water into wine, he is like, ah, show off. You know, think about this for a minute. Well, he was skeptical at first of Jesus's ministry. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. But then he gets converted, you know, it was always there, but the spirit's unlocked and, and he writes a fricking test of a book.

Oh, no doubt. You'll get slapped from chapter one through the end of James. 'cause he is basically looking at you going, this is how it's gotta be. If you wanna be like Jesus. If you're listening to the podcast and you feel complacent in your relationship with God, or you need a jumpstart, go take one week [00:54:00] five chapters and read the book of James and read it slow and it, it'll jumpstart you.

It's a jumpstart book, Kyle. I dunno if he was trying to teach me something, but we did that together, Kyle, we, yeah, yeah, yeah. It last year, Sunday, I think you needed a jumpstart. Yeah. Kyle sends me, he goes, we're gonna do James. We did. It was a, it was a chapter of, of a chapter a week. Yeah. Chapter a week.

Read it slow. Let it, let it marinate a little bit. Yeah. But you said every verse you had to read with a soap method. And soap. Yeah. SOAP. So read a chapter of James, read James one, SOAP, underlined five or six scriptures verses, and then pick one verse out at that, out of the five that you underline. That's the verse.

God wants you to have that A write it out long hand. S for scripture. Write out a, a small observation. O. Mm-hmm. A small application on how I could apply this to my life today. And then a two to three sentence prayer at the end on God helping you with that. So, SOAP, scripture, observation, application prayer.[00:55:00] 

Uh, it's just a great way to, to read the Bible and make it applicable, uh, to you in the moment. And James is a great book to do that with. Yeah. And I just, again, I, I, I've talked about, we talked about leaders, but I talked about the greatness of God and I, if I just think of the coincidence, maybe God incident of all of this, where you did that with me last year and now the last individual in the second summary podcast we did mm-hmm.

With James, so that, um, Kyle, I think the big summary today, man, is wisdom maturity. Faithfulness obedience. Again, I, we've talked a lot about faithfulness and obedience, but I love that we leaned into wisdom and maturity today. Mm-hmm. A lot of these leaders, that's, that's their story. Wisdom, longevity, maturity, um, and I love the verse that you, you laid out there at the end.

Let perseverance do its work in you so that you get to a place of maturity. It's beautiful. Okay. Before I let you go, Kyle, please share with the folks where they can find you, what your new venture [00:56:00] adventure is. Well, and, and it won't start till June 1st. So June 1st, Cape Coral, Florida, Cape Christian Church.

Beautiful church led by incredible people, led by incredible volunteers. A beautifully diverse city in southwest Florida. Um, and just fired up to go take it. But you know, Instagram is Kyle Jackson one. Um, most all updates can come from there, Cape christian.com if you wanted to see the church. But, uh, man, just thankful to be a part Mark.

Proud of you. Love what you're doing, my friend. God speed buddy. Uh, you are the right guy for the job and um, I know, I know you're gonna go and change lives down there in southwest Florida. Um, as for all of you who support the show, thank you. I'm so very, very appreciative of you. Uh, share this with your friends.

Follow us on the social handles. It's at the greater call. Um, interact with us please. I'd love to hear from you if you're looking for prayer. The good news is Kyle is back periodically on the show and he's a prayer folks, so I'll get the prayer list to him. We've got some great people coming in the future.

We got a [00:57:00] great lineup coming. We really do. There's some good ones coming up. Yeah. In the meantime, thank you. God bless you, God. Speed and go and be a legend.