The Greater Call Podcast – Jacob | Jacob's Ladder with Wesley Bryan

Mark Immelman sits down with Wesley Bryan (of Bryan Bros Golf) to unpack the life of Jacob a flawed man on the run who still gets met by a promise-keeping God. They walk through Jacob’s fear, guilt, and consequences, and then zoom in on the pivotal “Jacob’s Ladder” moment where God speaks peace and purpose over him anyway.
The conversation also gets practical: perseverance, responsibility, repentance (without using grace as a license), and surrounding yourself with people who speak truth when you’re tempted—or when you fall.
 
In This Episode, You’ll Discover:
🎙️ How God meets Jacob while he’s running—and why that matters when you feel unqualified
🎙️ The heart of “Jacob’s Ladder” and the promise: “I’m with you…I’ll protect you…I’ll make you into a great nation”
🎙️ Why perseverance and time are part of spiritual formation—and leadership formation
🎙️ The leadership link between responsibility and maturity
🎙️ Why saving grace should lead to repentance—not excuses
🎙️ The freedom (and humility) of admitting you’re unworthy—and trusting the One who is
🎙️ How community helps you avoid traps—and get out of them when you fall in
🎙️ Where to find Wesley + Bryan Bros Golf—and why “read your Bible first” is still the best advice
 
🔑 Key Verses Mentioned
• Genesis 28 (Jacob’s Ladder / Bethel) — Jacob sees the ladder and hears God’s promise
• Genesis 28:15 (theme echoed in the conversation) — God’s presence and protection promise
• Genesis (Jacob’s story overall) — “Go read the story of Jacob…in Genesis”
 
 
🙌 About Wesley Bryan
Wesley Bryan, a former PGA TOUR golfer and winner, creates golf content alongside his brother George as the @BryanBrosGolf—using their platform to entertain and, as Wesley shared, to be a light for Christ.
You can find them by searching Bryan Bros Golf on YouTube and socials.
 
🎙️ Follow Mark Immelman
• Instagram & YouTube: @MarkImmelman
• Facebook: @markimmelmangolf
• X: @mark_immelman
• LinkedIn: @mark-immelman-87ab46162
• Website: markimmelman.com

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Website→ https://markimmelman.com/the-greater-call/

✨ Be full of joy in all things, no matter where you are. Be thankful. Go and be a legend! ✨

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome again to This Greater Call podcast, episode 16 about Jacob, and we've decided to call this Jacob's Ladder. Apparently there's a movie about this that was a bit of a horror story, but this is not a horror story. In fact, it is something that hit me right in between my eyes and to join me. I'm very glad to have a dear friend, longtime friend, PGA tour star winner on the PGA Tour YouTube star.

Gosh, is there anything you haven't done? Wesley Bryant, welcome to the show. Oh, I've, I've covered it all. You forgot to mention that I'm, uh, a suspended PGA tour player as well. So, uh, but that introduction was flattering mere semantics, my friend. You are, you are also a father of girls like I am. So, I'm, I'm, I'm in awe of you and I commiserate with you and I'm so thankful you were join us, man.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me on, mark. Of course. Um, okay. When I reached out to you. I said, would you join me? And you shot back very quickly. You're like, sure, I'd love to. And then we figured out the [00:01:00] calendars. And then I was like, okay, who do you wanna talk about? And you were like, Jacob. And I was like, whoa.

Okay. Um, sure. And then after responding in the affirmative, I go, I know Jacob is like the brother of Esau, the guy who stole his birthright. And then because we've done the podcast on Joseph. I know Jacob was Joseph's dad and was the father of, you know, the 12 tribes of, of Israel. But then you hit me with this and I, I was like, gee whiz, I better get to reading and studying.

And this story resonated with me so big. I, I, I'm, I'm interested as to why you went this way. Yeah. Uh, honestly, about the time we were texting, we were going through, uh, around our di dinner table, and. Basically saying our favorite stories from the Bible. So I hear all around the table, uh, what my girls had said, and then I said, I think my favorite story in the Bible is about Jacob.

And then my seven-year-old proceeded to tell [00:02:00] me the entire story of Jacob as well, which, um, one ex extremely humbled by the fact that she would, um. And enlighten me first and foremost, and, and then she was giving me nuggets that I was just sitting there in awe, like if a 7-year-old can retain this type of information over who knows how long it's been since she's read the story of Jacob, or we've read it to her.

And for her to have all of that stored up. Honestly it was challenging and convicting all in one. And then also I, I was a bundle of joy as well. Yeah. So super cool. I'm jealous though that you've got the researcher and I to do all this stuff by myself. Yeah. She's pretty solid. I'll say. So we should get on.

Okay. Um. For the folks who dunno, again, this podcast mission is to, uh, introduce heroes from our faith, uh, people in the Bible who we can learn from, just look at their lives and learn about the what legacies, how to leave a legacy, leadership lessons, and just lessons in life. And, and as I read more on Jacob, I [00:03:00] realized that this dude is such a relatable figure.

I mean. He goes from this flawed kind of deviant trickster to eventually this mature, patriarchal father of the nation and a of a family who is does nothing but follow God. And I was like, holy cow. This is like a life story where you got all these different scenes playing out. And to me, Wesley, it seemed like it should be a movie because it was dramatic.

Yeah, I, I'll tell you what, just going from the start, um, and I, I take it back to Abraham and Isaac. Mm-hmm. And, and I'm just imagining like the stories that Isaac would've said, like, well, me and my pops, we won on this march up a hill. Uh, everything was great. Then he kind of tied me up and, and so anyway, I'm imagining like growing up the stories that he would've gotten, um, and then.

Him probably being like, how in the world can we get to a point where that happens? And then he finds himself in that, [00:04:00] that same point where he goes and betrays his brother and his, his mom kind of conspires on it as well. And then it goes full circle to where now he's got like his. His prize possession, his son, that the rest of his sons, uh, decide to attempt to discard.

Yeah, right. Exactly. And, and so I'm thinking of like the highs and the lows. Um, and then it coming full circle to, to where his, his son. That obviously was special for a reason of, of which he saw in his eyes comes and, and helps redeem his own family as well. So, um, there's so much to unpack. Uh, it's one of my favorites in the whole Bible, and, and yeah, excited to chat about it.

It gives me great hope. You know, when I read the story and it not just read the story because I'm guilty of like, you know, reading the thing and I've sort of read it and skim read the thing and then I'm like, okay, Bible reading done for the day. But when you really dive into this, and as you say, I like to sort of put myself as far as possible in the situation being like, okay, here I am.[00:05:00] 

You know, I've got a brother who's older than me, he's sort of the favorites. Um, and I'm going, same here. Yeah. Well I've got a brother that's younger than me and he's kind of, yeah. You know, it's an aside. So, so I, I put myself in this thing and I'm like, this is incredible. And there's so many just life lessons of perseverance.

'cause if there's one thing. True to, uh, Jacob is he went through it all and through it all, even though he was not the, you know, the most glowing, godly, uh, hero we have. God was with him all the time. A a and that's where it is so refreshing and so comforting to, to me, as I look upon my life. Yeah, I know.

I'm, uh, again, there's a lot to unpack and, and I'm thinking like, I, I'm a, a father of three and I'm just putting myself in his shoes. Imagine me raising children. Like, again, God even says you're, you're, you're kind of responsible for your children and how you raise [00:06:00] 'em. Um, as far as like qualifications for being a, uh.

A pastor or whatever, like, that's one of the, the things that's in there. And, uh, that's convicting because here, Jacob, the, the, the father of Israel is responsible for raising children that are gonna basically sell 'em off into slavery. And so Fred's parents didn't fail. Right? I, I'm, I'm looking at, from a parenting side, he's got a.

He's gotta be about as beat down as any human's ever gonna be. And then God's redeeming grace through it all, uh, is, is pretty incredible. Right. Let's dive into showy. Um, very lots of things to talk about. In fact, favoritism, as you talk about there with Joseph. We'll touch on that as one of the, the life lessons, if you will.

Um, but just to summarize this guy's character, you've mentioned it Wesley, alongside Abraham Isaac, he was one of the most significant. Figures in the Old Testament and the father of Israel, he was father to 12 sons. [00:07:00] Um, six of them from his wife Leah, who he didn't love. And then Leah passed on one of her maid servants to him, and I think she brought two sons to him.

But Jacob's real love was Rachel. And Rachel eventually, who was Baron, gave him two sons. Um, Joseph and Benjamin. And Joseph. Yeah. And now, now I'm excited about the last two. I wanna hear how you pronounce 'em. Uh, where, where, where are we going now? No, no, I'm saying, I I don't, they're just, they're like a and m or a h and b, or, it's usually when I'm reading, I'm gonna leave.

They're, they're, they're tough names to pronounce. I'm gonna leave those alone, but I know there's two more. I'm gonna leave those alone. Um, he's name means deceiver, but later he was renamed by God to Israel, which means sort of strives or, or battles with God. Um, which I wanna talk about too, because he's a guy who was, had the bravado enough to wrestle with God for an entire night.

Um. Mm-hmm. Uh, he had an older brother, uh, Esau. And as I [00:08:00] looked at Jacob, the guy, you know, the business leader, if you will, he was a pretty shrewd businessman as well. You know, he was super wealthy. He was clearly a hard worker. I mean, this was a guy who was devoted to stuff because he worked for. His father-in-law, his mom's brother for 14 years just to get, be able to get married to Rachel.

Yeah. So he's got some chutzpah about him. This, uh, this Jacob dude, before we dive into him, huh? Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you what, I, I didn't have to work that hard. I, I just, okay. In high school, asked a girl on a date, can't imagine having to work 14 years for it. Okay. Let's look at it from this point of view because all of us are flawed in our own way.

Jacob was lying. He was deceitful. In fact, one of the key verses that jumps out at me was in Genesis 27 20, where, um, where he's now deceived his father for the Birthrights and [00:09:00] his brother Esau comes in after going in the fields to get the wild game, shoot the wild game to prepare for his father so he can get his father's blessing, and his father confronts Jacob about this.

He goes, you deceive me. And then Jacob goes, well, it was God that made me do it. So this guy had the nuts enough to go, well, your God, he actually says, your God, not my God, your God, uh, made me do it kind of thing. So he had lots of gumption to be able to go, oh gosh, I'm gonna lie. And I'm not just gonna lie.

For me, I'm, I'm, I'm calling in divine inspiration for this lie. Right. An incredible, and, and that same. That same God decided to carry out the, the blessing as well, which is, it's again, if you put anybody else in those shoes, uh, up in human flesh, there's, there's no way that's ever gonna be accomplished.

I'm so glad you would say that because it's a [00:10:00] nice sort of segue into the promise and it's a kind of a key verse to me. And it's Genesis 27, uh, 28 15, and it's a key verse that goes. I'm with you and we'll watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I promise you.

And, and that is the blessing that God, God offered. And even though the blessing was meant for somebody else, God is this unchanging covenant keeping God who will keep his promise even if it steps into it. And, and I find that too, that we know that we have this sovereign leader, this God, this, this. You know, person that we follow that is just unchangeable from back to now.

Right. Exactly. And, and honestly, God did a huge work when they decided to come back and reconvene and, and I think it says that they, they were able to make amends or peacefully. Have a, a conversation over that, which, [00:11:00] uh, if anybody has, has been in the middle of that type of disagreement, which there's probably not that many people who have.

Mm-hmm. Uh, for it to come together peacefully is also feels like a pretty divine intervention. Well, yeah, that's one of the four major events that I want to talk about. Um, and mm-hmm. Usually we have like, leadership lessons in y and I've got a few that we're gonna deal with at the end. Um, but I wanna talk about those four major guide events, if you will.

Um. The first one was now David, not David. Um, Jacob has stolen his brother's birthright, which, and the birthright for folks who don't know back then was the father blesses the oldest son. So it wouldn't have been you, it would've been George. No. Okay. And they get the lion's share of the family wealth.

They get basically a situation, uh, where they are above all other siblings, so the other siblings have to work for them. So this is a big deal. It's been stolen away and now [00:12:00] apparent. And Esau was a bigger, stronger guy than Jacob was. The Bible says Esau was big, strong, hairy, outgoing. He was a great hunter and a strong man.

Jacob was kind of feeble and pale and not very much hair on his skin. So not, um, not much testosterone. Now Jacob. Jacob is petrified and he's running away. And as he's running away, he falls asleep one night and has this dream. And in this dream, it's known as Jacob's Ladder. He sees this ladder come down all the way from heaven all the way to earth, and up and down this ladder, he sees God's angels going and at the top of the ladder, God goes, I am God Almighty.

I'm gonna be with you. I'm gonna protect you. I'm gonna make you into a great nation. Same promise. Made to his forefathers. Yeah, and, and I wanna go here because that is again, so heartening for me because this guy has just committed a treason and he is running away for his life and he's petrified. I can imagine [00:13:00] he's by himself, who knows if he's got food or anything, but I know he can't hunt for food.

But now he falls asleep and has this dream where God speaks to him directly and says, don't worry, I've seen what you've done. I'm gonna be your God and lead you and be with you. Even though you've done all that stuff. Yeah. And that's a beautiful depiction of, of God's direct line of communication these days through the spirit.

Yeah. Um, and, and like, it's, it's there. It's a hundred percent there. Um, and seeing it as a, as a ladder with angels, which obviously couldn't be, uh, seen as, as helpers, if you will, and of the. Symbolizing the spirit of coming and, and giving us a direct line of communication to God. And, um, yeah. So, uh, I I, I just, again, go back through like the amount of guilt and shame and.

Everything that Jacob is walking through as he's running away and [00:14:00] still gets met by the most loving, caring, promise, keeping God. Uh, that again, who knows at this point if he truly believed in his heart, uh, that God was good. But I'm sure after that dream, there was not a shadow of a doubt. Hmm. I love the way you put that.

Um, it says, yeah, he built an altar to God at that stage and he sort of started to change his ways. He was running away and his mom had sent him to her brother Levin, and she had concocted a story. So she was in on the whole scheme too, to trick Yeah. Isaac. And she said, uh, to Isaac, I'm tired. I don't want our boys to marry these heathen girls in the place in which we're living.

So I want him to go away. So Isaac is now unknowingly committed into this whole thing. And so Jacob's on his way to Laben. He meets on the way to Labban. He meets Laban's laborers in the field, and then Rachel Laban's daughter comes out and she's a shepherdess at the time, [00:15:00] and he looks at this doll and she is hot.

All right? Even the Bible says that. And he falls. And so he goes to Labban and he wants to negotiate now for the daughter's hand in marriage. And Leban goes, sure. And gives him a deal. And Jacob gladly goes, sure, I'll work for seven years for your daughter's hand in marriage. Which he duly does. And it says there in the Bible that he works hard and it seven years went so quickly because he was so in love with this woman.

It actually says that, I couldn't believe it went 'cause you made me read the story, right? Mm-hmm. And that's, that jumped out at me. And then he, it's time to like pay the piper and he goes to Labin and lab's like, no, no, no, we can't be doing this sort of thing. Um, because Rachel is not the eldest, so you have to marry Leah first.

And apparently Leah was not that pretty. Jacob in his devotion does this anyway, and eventually after paying all the pendants and stuff, he gets, um, the, to marry Rachel. Now I'm [00:16:00] getting to a place where I'm looking at this going, okay, here's Jacob who deceived his brother and he's dad. Who goes away and how camera rolls around and that freaking tire that is going around all of the time just rolls straight over the top of him.

But he doesn't lament his fate. He did complain once or twice, but he is like, okay, I'm just gonna do the right thing now. Right. So you see this life change that was beginning to happen to him? Yes. Right. And, and again then in a certain, and. I mean, really, he got deceived by Leban as well, and so Yeah, yeah.

Twice. Exactly. Yeah. And so I, again, I'm sure he is sitting there thinking like, ah, let's be honest. I kind of deserve that. I kind of deserve that. But again, at least he still got a a, so it wasn't the reward. He was hoping, obviously it wasn't the, the one in which he loved, but he still got a little something.

And, and again, uh. That's just redemption story. It's, it's everywhere in the Bible. But, uh, [00:17:00] this is where I wanna ask you as a professional golfer, 'cause of all the athletes that I've encountered who play at the highest level, golfers the most democratic of this all. You don't get to play on a team. You know, if you play well, you get rewarded.

If you don't play well, you kind of, you know, we're seeing it now. People can lose their cards and stuff. So you've been there where, you know, sometimes it's really easy to fall prey to this feeling, sorry for myself sort of a thing. But you guys, as I know you, if it's a bad tournament that happens or whatever, you're like, whatever.

I get back up and I take a day off and then I'm practicing again. I'm back on Misery Hill as I sometimes hear it being called. Yeah, driving range. So it's not like you guys really hang around feeling sorry for yourselves. It's always up in Adam. And, and I started to see this in Jacob as I read the story of where he was on this last journey, um, where he finds himself now.

Yeah. And, and again, for me on the golf side, I, I've had a lot more bad tournaments than most people, [00:18:00] uh, at the professional level. And I al, I always went into it. I knew I wasn't the most talented and, but I knew that if I played well, I could compete. But when I would fail. I was on the PGA tour, which is what I had dreamed of.

There was like a, a posture of appreciation and I don't really deserve this. This is an unbelievable gift and an unbelievable opportunity. And so instead of feeling sorry for myself, I'm gonna sit and appreciate where I'm at and what I get to do. And I got another opportunity next week, but usually next week would come.

I'd miss that cut too when it was going bad, and I'd miss a lot of them. Um, but there was just a level of gratitude and appreciation that I had for where I was that I wouldn't sit around and, and be miserable and feeling sorry for myself and my lack of performance because ultimately it was better than what I had deserved.

Anyway, you know what, uh, uh, we sit you two kindred spirits looking at a guy who was sort of a kindred spirit in what was happening in his life. 'cause [00:19:00] you start in one place and then eventually you end in entirely another where you've grown up. Um, you know, you've become a better person, if you will. Um, so you too, even though things weren't going your way, you found another way to use your talents for good.

Right? And now, good golfer who plays in the odd PGA tour event, who is now entertaining people via social media and YouTube with the skill you've been given. And, and this, that to me is the ultimate leadership lesson to say, look, just because there's a stop in the road, or whatever the case might be, that doesn't mean it's stop and stop completely.

There's always something else that you can do with your talents. Yeah, kinda like the guy that at one point was a really prominent player role in Wall Street and then realized I wasn't good enough, kind of got kicked outta Wall Street and set up shop in a small town in Kansas and I was the best financial analyst in in small town Kansas is kind of where I'm at right now, going from the PGA tour to YouTube, um, talent wise.

[00:20:00] But yeah, I'm loving it. Yeah. Well look, I want you to speak about, 'cause that doesn't happen easy. Then I'm sure there's somebody watching this right now that may be at a career crossroads and a father of a family, as you know, we all are and you've gotta provide and stuff like that. And there are all these challenges where, so I know it's not like, oh gosh, I'm just gonna jump up and do this and this thing is just gonna, you know, blossom from the word go.

It, it takes discipline, it takes perseverance. There are all these things that are cliches, but they're real man. When, when, when you're embarking on a, a, a derivative of your career, I guess. And again, Jacob going through the same thing, he probably never thought in a million years he'd end up some of the spots.

He was both on the good and the bad side of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Cool, man. Okay, well here's the third of the four God events that I want to deal with before the leadership stuff. Then later on, this is, you know, he is left labor now. He's got the wives and everyone with him, and he did this pretty smart deal with Laben where he essentially [00:21:00] left with all of the sheep and goats and cows and camels and stuff that were at his disposal.

So he was a massively wealthy guy at this stage. And it says at the river Jordan, he's awake one night and he wrestles with what is the person or the angel of God. And after realizing this, and God renames him, Israel, at this stage. Jacob has this sort of moment, I guess, where he looks upon this and realizes that, yes, this God who has blessed me my entire life.

And to me this is kind of the, the watershed where you get to that, you've spoken of it when you talked about gratitude. You know, when we get to this place where you realize, okay, despite things kind of being rough, there really haven't been that rough and I've got a lot to be thankful for. And, and there's a real life lesson in that because this is where I see Jacob's life sort of pivot.

He was, God was touching on him, but this is when the pivot happened now and he really turned for God completely, where it was sort of a drive-by relationship before that. Yeah. I mean, he, a [00:22:00] huge responsibility was put on him via the, when he gets a, a name change in a, in a, in a calling, and a complete direction with, again.

He, he served his time, if you will, over those 14 years, and, and God put him on a, on a path to go out and, and be responsible for a lot. Um, saw that he, they, he trusted him in a, in a little without little job or job over the, the seven what turned into 14 years and said, I can trust you a little now. I can trust you with a lot.

Go out and be, be my servant. Go and, and accomplish everything that I put in front of you. Let's make this, you know, 'cause to me, I still think, when I read these Bible stories, a lot of them are still those felt figures on the Sunday school board, you know, where it's plump, little angels and stuff like that.

But these are real human beings, and it's dirty and grungy and grimy, and then the deserts of Israel and the Middle Eastern stuff. So it, it's like real, [00:23:00] real life. Yeah. I, I, I'm, I'm certain. There's someone watching this too, now that it could be facing some sort of a, or life or career, sort of a shift. Um, I want you to share some advice.

Now you naturally have your bro, so you've got a partner in crime, if you will. Mm-hmm. But seeking counsel of people, is that the first thing you would advise or, I mean, this is like, um, Jacob Russell with God. Now, not all of us are gonna have this sort of an event. There might be this wrestle or this person we go to, and you have those hard conversations, and then eventually that becomes the impetus for the change.

When you went through the change in career, right, if you will, was there a moment or someone you went to or counsel you took that helped with that? Um, I mean, really, I've always been the one I, I guess since I, I reached out. A level of maturity, which isn't always exemplified, um, but a level of maturity.

Through [00:24:00] marriage, through life, through whatever, where I, I've always wanted to surround myself with people that are older and wiser than me, that have been through more than I've been through. Uh, that I also, if they tell me something that I, that disagrees with what I believe or what I want to do, that I'm willing to lay down to my own thoughts and, and feelings and, um, accept good, wise counsel, uh, of which, again, through marriage, uh, through real life stuff, I've, I've had to.

Lay down to my own, uh, inclinations, if you will. And, and again, and that that just comes through, uh, surrounding yourself with people that you really trust, that you trust to speak life into you, uh, advice into you. And, and God absolutely does work through those people. And so just make sure they're older, wiser, um, solid believers.

And, and that's usually, and I got a, a handful of guys that fall into that, that category. This has been placed on me, and I, I, I've gotta ask you. Take 'cause [00:25:00] you, that's a very wise answer. You shared, you know, when you read this story, this part of the story in the Bible, now it's translated from Greek and Arame and stuff like that.

But the word in the English, um, language for of versions of the Bible is wrestle Now. Wrestle is battle. Wrestle is not just a happy-go-lucky, smiley conversation. Mm-hmm. So guess where I'm going here is Jacob had this wrestle. A lot of these tough decisions, having that older, wiser person you respect and trust, right?

Sometimes those conversations are gonna be uncomfortable and they're gonna feel like you're wrestling, right? Oh, absolutely. I, I just had one last year when I had to make a decision to play in the dues, which obviously I, I was made aware, uh, that those were conflicts of interest for the PGA tour. Again, it was the first moment in my life where I had [00:26:00] said one thing about how, uh, my goal now at this, in this chapter of my life is to provide the best content possible.

I feel like that's where, um. I'm called to be at this stage, my, my performance was, was not unbeliev. It wasn't bad. It, it had actually gotten pretty good, but I had said that I remember having you in a group of Tory Pines last year and you were in contention. Yeah, yeah, right. I had, I had a chance to win a PGA tour event.

The, the week I'm, I'm making this decision, uh, that I know is probably gonna affect. Um, my career, it's gonna affect a lot of my home, family life and, and different rhythms, uh, in, in a more positive way. Obviously with a little less travel, but, um. Like I'm, I'm sitting here wrestling with it and I'm like, this is, this is what I've said I want to do on the YouTube side, and this is an opportunity in front of me that is, uh, the best content I could have ever.

When we got doing the YouTube thing, if you had told me I'd had the opportunity to film with, [00:27:00] again, your brother won a masters, uh, people that have won major championships, uh, and been some of the most prominent figures in the game of golf and some of the current, most prominent figures in the game of golf, and I have the opportunity to go.

Partner with them, with my buddies and put it on my YouTube channel and my buddy's YouTube channels. I was like, this feels like one of those crossroads where I can either make a decision about what I said was important to me, or, uh, make a decision to sit on the sidelines of something that I said I wanted to do and continue to chase a career path, um, full steam ahead.

That, that I, I knew was my secondary. Not source of income, but my secondary, uh, mission, if you will, playing good golf at a professional level, uh, you used the term full steam ahead and that's what I see in you and that's what I respect about you. And that's what I see in Jacob too because once the decision was made, it was no looking back, it, it was right full steam ahead.

It's like, okay, I've made this decision. Now we're not gonna toil about [00:28:00] what might have been if I had done something else. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, I mean also, and, and I've said it publicly, I, um. I, I had full, I, I thought based on the, the arguments that I had made in my head, I was like, I know what this initial decision's gonna be.

I trust the appeals process to like look at it a little more objectively. Um, that obviously didn't go my way. Uh, and then in light of recent news, I'm sitting here as about, as confused as I've ever been. Um, I know, but this is a podcast about Jacob. But, but yeah, but I'm still, but, but, but also I'm in the middle of, of another wrestle of, of a prior decision that I made where I'm, I'm sitting here confused and I'm wrestling with.

With God. I'm, I'm like, why? Like, I, I just help me, one, help me carry myself with a little bit of grace through it. I know at times I'm gonna fall short and there's gonna be a little edge, but, um, I'm in the middle of a, of the same wrestling match right now, if you will. Good news is that God's always with [00:29:00] you.

And, and, and as you look at the story of Jacob, from deceiver to trickster to the whole thing, everything works out good in the end. And I'm, I'm sure as you share the very candid, you know, thoughts and feelings that you have. I'm, I'm certain Jess Jacob had that stuff too, because, you know, when we read the Bible, you just read like the glosser or the, the, the excerpts that you skimming through the life story.

I mean, there were plenty enough certainty. He was like, what the heck is going on over here? Right. Yeah. And I'll, I'll tell you what, speaking of just skimming over or, or words on a page, um, I feel like, uh, it was a few years ago when, I think it was probably five, four or five years ago when the chosen, when they, when they put it on the screen, like I'd watched Passion of Christ or whatever.

But, uh, there was something about that series when it first came out watching it, of turning the Bible into what looks and feels like a, a real life situation. And so I like. Reading the Bible since, since getting onto that [00:30:00] just years ago, uh, has completely changed. When I get in the word what it looks and what it feels like.

And so if you haven't watched that series or, or any of the ones that help bring the Bible to life, that's theologically pretty sound and there's a, there's several of 'em out there. Uh, it can absolutely help the way you look and see and, and feel the Bible. Yeah. It's my golf of the show to get Jonathan Rumi on to speak about Jesus.

Eventually when we get to Jesus leader. Yeah, because he's the person. Yeah. Um, okay. The last God moment is now Jacob's moved on. Nice. The Patriarchy's, the father of 12, the 12 tribes of Israel, you know, his boys will get to the favoritism thing, but, but now the boys, there's feminine Egypt. They've went over to a fa feminine Canaan, they've gone to Egypt to meet with.

Joseph, their brother who they sold into slavery and he reveals himself to them. And then he goes, go back and get your dad. I need to see your father. And [00:31:00] um, they go back and Jacob wouldn't believe it, but then they proved it to him. And then before he went, or on the way to going to Egypt, he then consulted with God to go and see Jacob.

And God gave him the peace to say, I'm gonna make you guys a great nation in Egypt. Now, isn't this crazy? The turnaround, how he's done a 180. At the beginning of his life as a youngster. It's just, do whatever I please. I'm completely self-reliant. Now he's going to see the apple of his eye, his favorite son who's now alive.

He thought he was dead, right? And he goes, is this the right thing? God. I mean, this to me is like that redemptive moment where it's like Jacob is matured into the person he was meant to. Right. And, and again, he's probably at this point, like I'm alluded to earlier, thinking of the Abraham Isaac situation as well, where it's, it's kinda like this, this really, you don't even really know how much of a desperate march it is that he's on.

And what Abraham's wrestling with, [00:32:00] uh, on a, on a march up a hill, and what now Jacob is. Probably wrestling with on a, on a march to Egypt to Yeah. They don't, they're not jumping on Delta and it's a two hour flight. This is a Right, exactly. Yeah. On foot and there, there's a lot of time for thoughts. No kidding.

It's so cool. Alright, let's, let's talk about that. You've teased it and you and I are both, I had it wrong. I thought you had two girls. Well, I've got two girls. You've got two girls Got, I've got three. Three. God, three girls. All right. Um. Jacob, we've talked about some of the misgivings. We've, we've talked about the person a little bit.

Um, the, the one thing I did wanna ask you about is being a dad and to dad's watching this, or mom's watching this, or business leaders watching this, you know, it's easy to have favorites and clearly Jacob had a favorite in Joseph. He made him that multicolored Kurt. And this. Coupled with Joseph's pension to wanna tell [00:33:00] brothers about his dreams, where he was gonna rule over them.

It's not the best way to endear yourself to siblings. But now what Joe, what What Jacob's done is he is basically made the kids turn on someone because he is showed such favoritism. Help us. Help me with dealing with his whole favoritism thing. And incidentally, I've got one that asks me all the time, who's your favorite?

Who's your favorite? One of my two kids, she's asking. Yeah, probably your favorite. Right. She feels it. She knows. She knows it. She just wants to hear daddy say it. Well, if she's watching, uh, stop it. Okay. But, but really, I, I'm, I'm keen on knowing your take here because it's so easy to fall prey to that sort of a thing, and you're a spiritual, godly man, you know, how do you deal with this sort of stuff?

Yeah, I, again, there's. There's times I can tell you that absolutely I have a favorite child, and I can tell you right now, it's probably Winnie and none of none of my kids are watching it. But not, let's not use names on this one. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she, she's, but [00:34:00] again, you do it with everyone when.

God. God makes it clear like He likes the way you treat poor people. Don't, just because someone's rich and can offer you something that doesn't mean you treat 'em different. Like he makes it very clear of how you're to see everybody. Um, and. And again, even right now, the, the golf media is telling you to pick a favorite tour.

Um, pick a, a favorite whatever, um, player political on the broader media. Pick a favorite political, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know if we were gonna talk politics at any point because that, I'll tell you what, religion, that's a disaster. We're dealing with it. All of you. Big ass. Yeah. Politics.

I hadn't watched a minute of the news in my life and I feel like it's better for it. A lot of people will get upset with me and tell me I'm misinformed and I need to. Again, it politics isn't gonna change what time I wake up, what I eat for my meal, and when I go to the golf course or what I, how I, I mean taxes and all that stuff.

[00:35:00] Everybody's gotta pay and don't really care. So I just kinda stay outta that way. I like to have fun with my buds and play golf, um, and fortunate enough to be able to do that. Uh, but the favoritism thing, like it's a, it's, it, it almost kinda leads up to the comparison game where when you start comparing or start.

Falling prey to the favoritism thing. It is just, it's dangerous, slippery. That's depression, don't you think? Yeah. Everyone feeling bad is because they've been comparing themselves, uh right. To someone or something else. Right? Exactly. Exactly. And so, I mean, I, I, again, in the middle of those, like, like you mentioned earlier with, with Jacob, the wrestling matches.

Just surround yourself with people that can speak life and truth into you, uh, help you, one, avoid the traps, but two, when you fall into the trap, just like we're gonna do just about daily, uh, [00:36:00] that help you get out of the trap. Yeah. Okay. Some quick leadership sort of life less lessons to summarize. You know, I like to do this and again, folks, if you wanna go read the story of Jacob.

It's in Genesis first book of the Bible of the Old Testament. Um. Uh, I, I'm gonna say this to you folks. If you do like Wesley and you read these stories, but you don't just skim 'em over them, you read them and you put yourself in the story, and you imagine when this is written and what they were dressed like and they didn't have cell phones and stuff.

It, it is, it should be a movie. Really. I've just switched off my notes on my place here. Yeah, I see that. I like it. Excuse me. Um, um, here's the first, here's the first lesson, okay? As we have a temporary alt to the light proceedings, the. It's that God uses imperfect people. Every one of the heroes that we've dealt with so far.

I mean, we did a podcast on Gideon, who is essentially a petrified young man who was hiding away from the people of [00:37:00] Whitney, his country, and he gets confronted by God and God goes, get up brave and mighty warrior and like it's God seeing as something special in this person. Person who doesn't think he's special.

He took some people out. He did. Yeah. With like 30 guys. Yeah, exactly. And, and you got, oh God, David A. Shepherd boy who became the king of Israel, who defeated the guy he should have never defeated, you know? So yeah, you got God using imperfect deviant Jacob for a grand grander purpose. So my lesson, and I want you to comment to anyone watching this, if you've ever felt unworthy.

Kind of start lining yourself up with what you hear in the Bible over here, and that could change your mind. And when you change your mind and your attitude, that's when the road starts to open up for you, doesn't it? Right. And the reality is, you are unworthy you. You are undeserving you. It's that. That's once you realize that you are unworthy and there's only.

One [00:38:00] who is worthy, uh, and offers that grace to you to be seen as righteous in the eyes of God. Um, because there, there's nothing that you, you can do that, that allows you to be worthy of anything good. Um, and so again, there, there's. There's so much encouragement. There's also so many lessons to learn from the Bible that are just super applicable to today.

Um, and yeah, if you, if you don't read your Bible on a regular basis, one, you're missing out on a lot of fantastic entertainment. But two, um, there's just a, a, a steady, a steadfast love and a, a rest that comes, um, through the word of God that, that you're not gonna get on Instagram or Twitter or YouTube for that matter.

So. Uh, yeah, I sort of, I, I sort of see it as life and leadership doesn't need perfection from the start, you know? No. Like you point out, we're all flawed human [00:39:00] beings and we're all unworthy, and we are all on this journey we call life. And if you find yourself comparing to someone, remember someone, everyone's on different tracks, different places in their life, and comparing yourself or get your mind wrong, another thing that will get your mind wrong, and it's one of the tips I'd written, one of the thoughts I'd written down.

If you sort of self-reliance and you're relying on yourself to do everything and not calling in people around you that you trust or not relying on God eventually, like Jacob did. That's when the struggles tend to wanna prolong themselves. At least I've experienced that. Would, would you say the same thing?

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Um, that's one of the more beautiful depictions of marriage. Um, like why we were given a suitable helper or an option for it. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, I rely on my wife. Daily, hourly. She's probably doing, I mean, she's taking care of the kids right now while I'm on a podcast and some balls into a screen.

So, um, thanks Ms. Brian. Appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. [00:40:00] And so there's, uh, yeah. Hey, here's another, for the Christians watching this. Whoever, I mean, whoever, you know, I, for a long time, one of my idols, I wouldn't call it a God, was live scoring on the PGA to website when I was teaching guys like you, because my mood was dependent on what your clowns were scoring.

Yeah. That's your paycheck. So you a you guys don't pay very well. But anyway, that's an aside. Um, I, I, I find, and, and I get back to the term wrestling, okay. Because. Then we pray or we turn to whatever our, our highest source. And for me it's God and you pray and the praise are sort, prayers are sort of the same thing.

Oh God, I worship you, bless you. That sort of thing. And it's all this like list checking off where I think at times if, 'cause God talks about a relationship and you have a true relationship with your wife or [00:41:00] me, with my wife or your friends or with God, you know, there's some wrestling involved at times.

I feel like that that just deepens the connection with your source as it is God in a situation. Would you agree, right? Oh yeah. Absolutely. And then. Knowing that, again, reading stories like this and all of the shortcomings of all the people that you mentioned, from Jacob to David, to Gideon and all the doubt that everybody had with God, God's still seeing them as, as children and loved and redeemed and all of that.

Like there's, there's a lot of hope that you can put in, uh. Because there's nothing that you can do in your own strength and your own power and in your own line of thinking. Um, because it, it defies logic. It defies what culture tells you. It defies what, um, what seems right. And so, uh, yeah, there's just a, a, a lot of encouragement in the failure and knowing that [00:42:00] you're, you're taken care of.

It's all, it's all been done. I could wrap the podcast right now after that insight, but one more. Um, we've talked about perseverance. You have to persevere. I mean, that's a given. Nothing comes from nothing, but I wanna say this. 'cause this podcast is about life and legacy and leadership. Um, to be a leader and a spiritual leader or head of the household or whatever, um, you must take responsibility.

And initially we see Jacob dodging this responsibility, but eventually it. It wasn't, it was always, God was always there. It wasn't forcing it on him. It's like Jacob eventually took the initiative and became responsible and he became the father of Israel. Um, I'd love your take on responsibility. Oh man. I don't have much of it right now.

Um, my wife has a lot of responsibility. Uh, my, my responsibility is, is. Playing golf with my [00:43:00] buds and, and the score doesn't even really matter. So, yes. But, but yeah. You being, you, I'm gonna stop you because you're being coy, because you are playing golf with your buds is entertainment and people are paying for this.

So you providing for your family? Well, yes. The, the, again, I, I am extremely. Extremely grateful to be able to do what I do. Um, but I mean, the responsibility for me, how it plays out in life is I, I say a lot of really dumb things at times, and I do a lot of it publicly, and there are a lot of times I have to apologize and again, and it's, it is not only the, the individual that I say something to or they're.

Corporate, like I, I'm first sitting against a perfect God. Um, and so the, the routine of repentance and forgiveness and, and apologies and, and again, that happens under our roof as well with my wife and children. And so taking responsibility, [00:44:00] uh, just because you do have that saving grace is not a license to sin and continue to say whatever you want.

Um, but it should offer, uh. Repentance and, and forgiveness that looks and feels different without the hand of God on it. Amen. And the good news is, folks, is we serve a loving God who's full of grace and mercy, but the responsibility and the onus is on us to come to God. Um, Wesley, I so appreciate you joining us and being so candid and honest and sharing some of your story and your, some of your insights.

All research by your daughter, which I very much appreciate. Um, tell for the folks when they're not watching this show, they don't know and they've got their head under rocks and stuff where they can find you, where they go on YouTube, all that sort of stuff. Websites and, and, and the lack please. Um, yeah, you can, you can find us boroughs, golf on YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, all that stuff.

But. [00:45:00] I, I read your Bible first and then come find us. Um, and, but anyway, yeah, just, just find it, just find us on the internet. Uh, speaking of pastors, I've listened to a lot of sermons where they, they, they try and take my career away from me telling people to unplug from all that stuff. And so I usually have a word with them afterwards like, Hey, you're, you're, are you, you trying to, trying to get rid of my job up there from the stage.

Oh, you, you, you're doing God's work, my friend, and, and and it's so nice for me, you know, as the show grows to start to find more and more people like yourself that are prepared to come on and be honest and to talk about life. 'cause life is part, man, I don't care who it sure is. You know, for people watching you on YouTube, they're like, that guy's got the best job and he's making lots of money and stuff, but it's not the easiest thing in the world.

Um, you know, there struggles everywhere. It takes time. It takes a lot of time. Um, obviously we've gotten really lucky with it. Uh, but there is, there's, you only see [00:46:00] 10% of the work that goes into it. Mm-hmm. Uh, on the, on the. Screen or whatever. But yeah, I'm gonna keep doing it as the Lord willing, as he continues to give us a, a platform and an avenue to entertain people in the golf world and, and be a light for Christ.

And again, I fall short more often than most, uh, but like to think that, that I'm growing up a little bit from time to time. Indeed, folks. Yes. Amen. Brother. Folks, go follow Wesley and his brother George. They're the Brian Bros. BR. YAN. Mm-hmm. Um, South Carolina boys born and bred. God bless y'all. Um, and for all of you, if you don't follow us, uh, it's all the greater call or the handles on Instagram and x uh, search and subscribe on YouTube.

Tell your friends about it. And remember, we just here to help you to kind of dive into these lessons of these heroes of our faith and how they lived real lives and how, despite the challenges [00:47:00] they clung to. Eventually, sometimes, uh, a great God who helped them, you know, become heroes. And so thank you for downloading this one.

Do share it with your friends, follow us. And in the meantime, God bless and go and be a legend.