The Greater Call Podcast – Stephen | Full Measure with Larry Mize

In this special episode of The Greater Call, Mark Immelman is joined by longtime friend and 1987 Masters Champion Larry Mize to discuss the life, leadership, and legacy of Stephen—the first Christian martyr. Mark introduces the episode as one centered on a man who lived in “full measure” in everything he did: service, courage, truth, forgiveness, and faith.

Through Stephen’s story in Acts 6–7, Mark and Larry explore what it means to serve faithfully in small assignments, stand firm in truth under opposition, remain humble when gifted, and forgive even in the face of injustice. Larry also shares personal reflections on faith, prayer, humility, legacy, and how Christians can point people to Christ through both words and actions.

In This Episode, You’ll Discover:

 🎙️ Why Stephen is a powerful example of living in full measure
 🎙️ How an ordinary servant became one of the great heroes of the faith
 🎙️ Why Stephen’s life was marked by Spirit, wisdom, faith, grace, and power
 🎙️ The importance of serving faithfully in small assignments before larger ones
 🎙️ How Stephen stood firm when falsely accused
 🎙️ Why opposition often follows obedience and spiritual fruit
 🎙️ How Stephen’s final act of forgiveness mirrored the heart of Christ
 🎙️ The connection between Stephen’s martyrdom and Saul’s eventual transformation into Paul
 🎙️ Larry Mize’s reflections on humility, prayer, forgiveness, and eternal legacy
 🎙️ Why prayer, Scripture, and being led by the Spirit are essential for faithful leadership

Key Themes

Full Measure Faith
Stephen lived with complete devotion. He was full of the Spirit, wisdom, faith, grace, and power—not for his own recognition, but to serve God’s Kingdom.

Service Comes First
Stephen’s story begins with serving tables and caring for overlooked widows. Before he preached boldly, he served faithfully. His example reminds us not to despise small assignments.

Truth Under Pressure
When falsely accused and brought before the Sanhedrin, Stephen did not respond with anger or self-defense. He stood in truth, rooted in Scripture and led by the Spirit.

Humility in Giftedness
Stephen performed signs and wonders, yet his gifts never became about himself. Larry connects this to the kind of humility that points people toward Christ instead of personal achievement.

Forgiveness as Legacy
Stephen’s final prayer—asking God not to hold his killers’ sin against them—became one of the most powerful parts of his witness. Larry reflects on how forgiveness is not optional for believers; it is central to living like Christ.

Prayer as Spiritual Breathing
Larry emphasizes that prayer is essential before leadership, conversations, decisions, and daily life. He points to Philippians 4:6–7 as a reminder that God gives peace beyond understanding.

🔑 Key Verses Mentioned

• Acts 6 — Stephen chosen as one of the seven to serve
• Acts 6:8 — Stephen, full of God’s grace and power
• Acts 7 — Stephen’s speech before the Sanhedrin
• Acts 7:56 — Stephen sees Jesus standing at the right hand of God
• Acts 7:60 — “Lord, do not hold this sin against them”
• Philippians 4:6–7 — Do not be anxious; pray with thanksgiving
• 2 Timothy 1:7 — God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power, love, and discipline
• Psalm 119:105 — God’s Word as a lamp to our feet and a light to our path

🔥 Takeaways

 ➡ Faithfulness in small things can prepare you for greater influence
 ➡ Opposition is often part of doing meaningful Kingdom work
 ➡ Truth does not need anger to be powerful
 ➡ Humility makes giftedness more impactful
 ➡ Prayer brings peace, courage, and clarity
 ➡ Scripture must be studied, not skimmed
 ➡ Your actions may influence people in ways you never live to see
 ➡ Forgiveness is one of the strongest witnesses of faith
 ➡ Legacy is not built through recognition—it is built through eternal impact

🙌 About Larry Mize

Larry Mize is one of America’s great golfers and the 1987 Masters Champion. Known not only for his accomplishments in golf but also for his humility, kindness, and deep faith, Larry has long used his platform to point others toward Christ. In this episode, he brings wisdom, warmth, and spiritual perspective to the story of Stephen and what it means to live a life that honors God.

🎙️ Follow Mark Immelman

Instagram & YouTube: @MarkImmelman
 Facebook: @markimmelmangolf
 X: @mark_immelman
 LinkedIn: @mark-immelman-87ab46162
 Website: markimmelman.com

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Website→ https://markimmelman.com/the-greater-call/

✨ Be full of joy in all things, no matter where you are. Be thankful. Go and be a legend! ✨

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to a very special episode of The Greater Call, and it's about Stephen, and I'm vacillating between names for the show. It's currently Servant First, but there's every chance that this will change to Full Measure, 'cause it appears to me that this man was in full measure in everything he did, and he's calling.

And, and speaking of full measure, I was blessed many moons ago to be introduced to the man on your screen. For the audio folks, he's ... It's Larry Mize. If you're in golf, you'll know who's the, uh, one of the ... America's great golfers, Masters Champion of 1987. And, um, I got to spend a few years s- uh, alongside Larry.

And Larry, I can say this with no hesitation and a lot of conviction. I learned more from you about being a proper human being than what you ever learned from me in golf. So [00:01:00] God bless you, and welcome to the show. Well, you're very kind, Mark. Thank you. It's always great to be with you. I always enjoy our time together.

Well, this is a change for us, folks. Well, uh, it's not a change because if you look behind me, if you're watching on YouTube, you'll see there's two signed Masters flags. The one is signed by Larry there in the middle, and then with every signature he makes, he puts a Bible verse underneath. And the one over there is Philippians 4:6-7, which basically goes, "No need to be anxious.

Just pray unceasingly, and, um, your paths will be made straight." So welcome to the show. It's The, uh Greater Call show. Um, as always, do interact with us, please. Um, our, uh, handles are @thegreatercall on YouTube, on social media and such. We'd love to hear from you. And do share this with your friends because we are here to introduce you to some of the heroes of our faith.

Heroes, um, who are just people like Larry and I who were called for a really special purpose and eventually were recognized in the Bible. So the [00:02:00] goal here is to introduce you to some of the life lessons. So Larry Episode 24, Stephen. And folks, I said this before the top of the show, the more I studied Stephen, the more I saw Larry Myers in Stephen.

So I'll introduce you with that, Larry, and let you respond. I don't know where to go from that one right there. I'm no- Don't, don't martyr yourself, please. I love you too much. Okay. Well, s- Stephen is, is just ... I mean, I ... George, you asked me to do this. I got to know more of Stephen, and he was ... I always knew he was a great character in the Bible, but I didn't know how great he was.

I mean, he was just a tremendous, a tremendous example of how we can live a life and how ... live a life that, that has meaning to it. And, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's an ama- it's an amazing life that he led, and this courage and strength that he had is, is phenomenal. And the faith that he had. I mean, when you ... when they talk about Peter, they talk about he was led by the Spirit.

The, the Spirit and wisdom, the five things that kinda, uh, [00:03:00] c- controlled him was the Spirit, wisdom, faith, grace, and power, and all of those things were done with the Holy Spirit. He didn't, he didn't say ... It was nothing about him. It was all about God's Spirit leading him in all those areas to, to make an impact for the church at, back in that time, make an impact for the Christ, the Kingdom of God.

Amen. Um, I, I wanna start this off before we dive into the man, Stephen. Now, the- Stephen's an inspiration to me 'cause for the folks who don't know, in the Book of Hebrews in the Bible, there is what they call the Hall of Faith, and it's all of the great heroes, and we've touched on a lot of them. We've gone beyond some of them now with Stephen, because he's one of those characters, if you wanna read about it, it's in Acts, Acts chapter 6, where he was just an ordinary guy, like a lot of these heroes, that eventually became a hero of the faith just because of his actions and what he did.

Um, and Larry, I'll never forget, we were [00:04:00] fortunate, my family and I, to be in the Vatican in Rome. And so you go in there, and you just see these sculptures and pictures and stuff everywhere, and it's mind-numbing. And there's pictures, paintings all over the walls, so from way above your head to, like, way below your feet.

And at the time, my littlest, Sophia, might've been, like, four or five. And so she is now had enough of looking at pictures and paintings and sculptures, as you can imagine, on a hot Roman day. But we're walking around there, and all of a sudden she stops, and she's gazing at the wall. And I bend down to look at the picture that she was looking at, and there were two of them.

And they were about yea big. For the folks listening on audio, maybe a foot and a half across and high. Tiny pictures. That's including the frame. And the one was Peter being crucified upside down. Mm-hmm. And the other one was a painting of Stephen being stoned. for his faith. And I remember being so overcome that a picture like that [00:05:00] would tickle my youngest daughter's sensibilities at that age of life.

And it just speaks to how these folks, just in small actions, impact the world in, in the strange of- strangest of ways. And, and so, uh, that, that leads me to let you have it and kick you off, where, you know, here's Stephen. He's an ordinary guy. He starts by effectively waiting tables, you know, serving women at that time, which at that time, he was Greek, women were not very highly thought of.

But he's leading a charge of men feeding these Grecian Jews that were in, um, Israel. And the first introduction to Stephen, and you've said that, was they chose seven men who were known f- to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. Now, you've spoken of the Spirit, and it can only be that Spirit that made my daughter hook onto that picture for a good five minutes, just [00:06:00] standing there as mesmerized, uh, mesmerized by this painting.

Yeah, that's a great story, to seeing that picture and how that impacts. I mean, it just shows, you know, how the innocence of children can see that and really grasp it. It's pretty cool how God works, because that's a, a powerful message that right there of, of her grasping that and seeing those pictures.

That's awesome. Yeah. Um, so the man Stephen was, he was an administrator, he was a teacher, he was a great debater eventually. Um, he was the first Christian martyr. And it's amazing for the folks who don't read the Bible, we'll go into the quick story here in a minute, how there was a young man named Saul who was a member of the Jewish government, essentially, the Sanhedrin, the Pharisees.

And he was overseeing the pers- the persecution of all these Jews who were following Jesus, 'cause they were going anti the Jewish law by doing this. And he was the guy in [00:07:00] charge of persecuting all of this, and Stephen's way, while being stoned, influenced the young Saul to turn into or to turn to Jesus, turn into Paul, who wrote the lion's share of the New Testament.

So, so it's a... So I start with this one, Larry. In the most adverse and incomprehensible situation, being stoned to death, that your actions can actually influence someone to turn their belief system completely on its head. Well, it's amazing. And how he stood up to the Sanhedrin when he was talking to make them want to stone him.

He was telling the truth. He was being honest, and he was... The way I think of he's-

Which is another example of how we need to live our lives. Mm-hmm. But the other incredible thing that I would think hit Saul, had to hit anybody standing around there, [00:08:00] he- Was not Jesus, don't get me wrong with this comparison. But the comparison to Jesus and the fact that he said, told God, "Forgive them for what they're doing."

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I can, guess I can, I can get, get it straight here, make sure I get it right. But he starts off, he says, "Behold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." He sees Christ standing at the right hand of God to receive him into heaven. So yeah, while he's being stoned.

Yeah, while he's being stoned. And then at the very end, he says, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." And then he fell asleep, which is a reference to his body falls asleep and his soul goes to heaven. So, I mean, how powerful is that? I mean, you know, we, we are to forgive others, uh, as God forgives us. And, and the only way we can do that is through the power God gives us through the Holy Spirit.

Yeah. Because God forgives me for everything, so I have no right to hold anything against anybody else. I have to be just as forgiving for [00:09:00] God to forgive me. And that power there, that, that means someone's stoning you to death and you're asking God to forgive them? I mean, what an impact that had on everybody standing around, and what an impact it has on me just reading it.

Yeah. I, I learned this from my wife. Like you, we learn a lot of things from our wives. There's a quote of hers that I wanna use in a minute on you here. Um, where she said to me when she saw me studying for this, she goes, "Do you know that back in those days, crucifixion was a Roman form of punishment, and stoning was the Jewish form of pun- punishment?"

Now, I don't know which one's worse, okay? Mm. 'Cause God forbid. Right. You can only imagine you're standing there or s- he was kneeling, and people throwing rocks at you. 'Cause you don't die instantly. Right. Through this all, uh, one of the things about his character, I said he was faithful, he was a servant leader, he was humble, intellectual, that was the speech we'll talk about you've touched, and unflappable.

And yeah, this guy's [00:10:00] being, having rocks hurled at him, yet he stands there, kneels, prays, looks to heaven, and then forgives people. That, that is beyond my comprehension. It, it really is. It's amazing. It's the spirit of God working in his life, and it shows us, as you said, he's a great example for us to see that, you know, and that's what we need to show this world.

I mean, uh, you know, I always feel like Christians can be the best example of Christ. Yeah. And we can be the worst example of Christ. Mm-hmm. Once we start taking our eyes off Christ and aren't led by the Spirit, we're capable of doing a lot of terrible things. So, you know, we always wanna make sure we keep our eyes on Christ and keep following him.

And I always wanna point, point people to Christ. 'Cause, you know, I'll mess up. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, unfortunately I, I will sin again. I wish I wouldn't, but point them to the one who had no sin, and was no sin, and did no sin. There you go. We need to point people to the object of our worship, and that's what, uh, and that's, that's what it's all about.

Sharing the f- love of Christ and sharing [00:11:00] examples like this I feel led to share this with the folks. Um, and you said this to me one time. Now you win the Masters, which for golf people is, it's like the ultimate achievement, I would argue. You know, even more so to me than the US Open and the British Open And you once said to me that winning the Masters is not who I am, it's what I did.

What you said to me then, and then you elaborated to say, "Who I am is Larry Mize, f- a given child of God Almighty. And so as a result, my job is to be like Steven and to stand up in the face of all manner of adversity wherever, to profess this." Now, I want you to build further, because it's the hardest thing in the world to take a stand for your faith.

We can take a stand for our teams all day. I, I can jump up and shout and scream for my football team very easily. But doing the, uh, do- standing in a television compound or on a PGA tour driving [00:12:00] range and saying to folks, "Yeah, I'm a Jesus guy," th- that's just so hard. So I have the utmost admiration for you for that very mindset.

Well, you know, the way to, to me, the way to do it, I, I love the saying, and it's not me, Larry Moody, who led our Bible study, "Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care." Mm-hmm. A way to further this is to love people and let them know I care about them, and then pray for an open door for the opportunity to share with them.

I mean, for me to get up there and just start yelling Jesus and stuff, that's not the way I wanna do it. Uh, it's, I, I'm not gonna judge anybody on what they do. Everybody's got their own calling. But I wanna love people and care about them so that they can see Christ in me and wanna know more about me, and I can tell them about Christ.

So I think that's the way I like to do it. I... Relationship evangelism, where you build a relationship and then you get a chance to share. And the way we treat people and the way we [00:13:00] act says a lot about who we are, and I want people to see Christ in me and, you know, obviously I hope they do. The acting's as good as the words most times, isn't it?

Well, you know, it's easy to say something. It's hard to live the life, exactly. So, you know, your actions speak louder than your words, so we need to be careful that we're, uh, being led by the Spirit and, and not by, uh, not by the, not by the world. Yeah. Okay, I wa- I wanna get into the reality of this all.

'Cause again, we can sit here in awe of this man who believes so much in Jesus that he was prepared to take a stoning for it. Okay? And this, and this is what, when I saw my little girl and then looking at... And I remember looking at the upside down cru- being crucified Peter. And she was like, "Daddy, why?" And the best thing I could fumble out to her was like, "Well, he didn't feel like he was worthy of being crucified the same way Jesus was."

And that speaks to something's happened inside. You've had an experience that is beyond any worldly measure, [00:14:00] yes? Yes, incredible. Like, like Peter being crucified upside down 'cause he didn't feel worthy to be crucified like Christ. Mm-hmm. Well, just the way, s- the courage that Stephen had through the power of the Holy Spirit living in him was just, just phenomenal, that he was willing to do whatever he could.

If, if dying furthered the kingdom of God- He was- ... that's, uh, he was okay with it because he knew he was doing the right thing, and he knew where he was going. Yeah. He knew this, this is not the greatest world of all. The greatest world of all is coming in heaven with God and Christ. Um, this is just, we're just passing through here.

We're on our way to a greater place. Mm-hmm. Well, that's the ultimate in leadership, 'cause what Larry did say to me one time too, folks, and I'm sure you're surprised I'm bringing this stuff up, is you and I both flew many, many miles. I'm still flying to, to golf events. And w- I was talking to you about, you'd just gone to Korea or something, and I was like, "Are you not concerned about that long-haul flight?"

And [00:15:00] you're like, "If the plane crashes, I know where I'm going." And I remember going, "Gosh, that's so pragmatic. I wa- I wanna be like that guy." Well, I still hope it doesn't go down, but if it does, I'm okay. Okay. Okay, but here's the reality of it, right? So it starts off with, uh, the 12, the way, the apostles. Uh, Christianity was growing, and there were lots of complaints from a faction of people in Jerusalem saying, "Hey, these women are being looked after and these women aren't."

And so the apostles decide they're picking seven men, of which Stephen was one. But clearly Stephen stands out because here in s- um, Acts 6:8 it says, "Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power-" Did great wonders and miraculous signs among people. So he was wowing folks, right? And then the very next verse it says, "Operation," uh, opposition, forgive me, "arose."

So he's doing all this great stuff, and instantaneously opposition [00:16:00] comes from members of the synagogue. Now, if you want a life and leadership lesson, this is it. Because if you start doing special things, opposition is all but guaranteed to happen. Hmm? Exactly. I mean, we ... Yeah, we're, we're promised that things are not always gonna be rosy, but, but it's gonna be okay, and He's gonna give us the strength to get through it.

I, I always love... It's in Corinthians, one of the Corinthians. I wish I knew the scripture, but, you know, uh, we're gonna have sin, but He's gonna give us a way to get through it. Yeah. Get out of it. I mean, we're gonna have, we're gonna have trou- well, sin. We're gonna have trouble. Trials. We're gonna- Trials and tribulations.

Exactly. But we're... He's gonna give us, He's gonna make way. He's not gonna give us something that we can't handle. He gave Stephen something that he was able to handle. Yeah. Well, yeah, it goes, it goes further. Um, the men began to argue with Stephen, but they could not stand up against his wisdom or by, or the Spirit by whom he spoke.

Right. And that for me is [00:17:00] so cool too, because we live in this era of social media, and you're trying to be a leader, and you're trying to do the right thing, and you're guaranteed to get op- opposition. But if you're rooted in that Spirit you've spoken about a few times now, folks just can't stand up to that.

I, I fi- I find that heartening in a way. It is. It's great. 'Cause I mean, he did. You know, he was ... God prepared him for this, and he was ready for it, and he, he passed the, he passed the test with flying colors. Mm-hmm. 'Cause opposition and, you know, we just need to make sure we're doing it, uh, in love. And I think that with him, he told the truth, but he didn't do it in a way that was, you know- A bad way.

He did it in a way that, "I'm just telling you the truth." And they just, the, the truth hit them hard and they didn't like it, and boy, they just went, they went nuts Well, this, this is when he's being seized, right? So now you know the human nature, and this is life lessons for people. As soon as they're overcome by Stephen, what they start doing is stirring up false truths about him and telling people that he's [00:18:00] blaspheming against Moses and, um, other Jewish, you know, the, the, the Jewish elders, Jewish heroes, if you will, in Abraham and Moses and company.

So the folks start lying about him, and he just stands there and then it says, "All who were sitting in the Sanhedrin looked intently upon him and they saw his face was like that of an angel." So he didn't go and discount the rumors and the lies and stuff. He was just there like, "Come, I, I know I'm in the truth right now," and it shone out of him.

I, I think that's a very cool anecdote. That, that was, that was very good. Exactly right. I mean, once again, he didn't, he didn't respond with anger or hatred or anything. He had the love of God with the face of an angel there, and it was, uh, once again a great example for us in how he did that. And you know, he's not Jesus, don't get me wrong, but once again, like Jesus, they brought false witnesses forward.

They did the same thing against Stephen. They brought f- people, because they had, they had nothing to stand. They couldn't stand up against Jesus. Can't stand up against Stephen either. They had to bring these false witnesses to come against him [00:19:00] because what he said was the truth. And when you're speaking the truth, there's nothing they can, like nothing they can say against you.

That's why it's so important to be honest. 'Cause if you're honest and tell the truth, you never have to worry about what you said. Yeah. If you lie, now you go, "Oh, what did I say?" One lie leads to another and it leads to another. So the more honest we are, the better relationships we have with each other.

And, uh, obviously we're bringing God g- glory if we're truthful and honest, 'cause He wants us to be that way He, yes. Uh, yeah, that, that, that, I love the way you, you share that because it sort of hits me right here in my soul kind of thing, where, yeah, it's being truthful. It's being honest. It's, it's living by the Spirit, and it reminds me of, I've heard it said somewhere that the same spirit that rose Jesus from the dead lives inside of you.

Now, you can have that just go straight over your head, or you can take ownership of that, and it seems to me that that was what Stephen did. 'Cause if you h- honestly believe that that power lives within, you can stand then deal with all comers in whatever your sphere of [00:20:00] life is, be it, might be a coach or a business leader or a mom, dad, whatever it is, but you just stand firm in that truth knowing that, you know, "I'm held firm, and I'm, I'm built on solid ground here."

Well, the scripture tells us, "He did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power, love, and discipline." Yeah. He gives us, he gives us the strength, and it's not, it's not from me. He gives me the strength to do it 'cause I can't do it alone. And that's one thing I have to continually remind myself. I can't, I can't keep from doing the wrong things, but with him living in, with him, Holy Spirit, indwelling me, giving me strength, I do have the power and strength to withstand the temptations of the devil and to live the life that I, I wanna live.

Yeah. Okay, some life and leadership and legacy lessons, 'cause that's what we're all about. We've sort of dealt with the, the man, Stephen. I, I think if you just had to consider him for a little while and really go and mull it, as someone on a previous show said, "ruminate," go and ruminate over the stuff and really think about it, I think there's enough to be learned.

But I did highlight a few things I'm gonna pitch to you, and I want you to respond. [00:21:00] And the more I look at this, like, look, Stephen was a special guy. He was smart. He was a heck of a debater. When he went in front of the Sanhedrin, there's almost a whole chapter worth where he just told the story of Abraham.

And then right towards the end of it, he goes, um, "You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts. You're just like your fathers, and you guys knocked him off," kind of thing, you know? Right. So he had the bravado to do that. So he was special that way, but he was still just an ordinary guy who was given a task.

And that task initi- initially was to feed women. And he was like, "Yeah, I'm doing this with all of my heart." So it's that small seed that grows into something real big. So we m- I guess what I'm trying to say is the life lesson. We mustn't despise the small before we get the large. There's a golf lesson in that too, I guess.

No doubt. Mm-hmm. You got small things are very important. Uh, in golf, you know, grip, stance, all these little boring things are the foundations you build on. And once again, you never know what feeding people and how, [00:22:00] how that's affecting people watching you and how it's doing. And it's, it can lead to greater things and, and it led to greater things with him.

But don't think that ... You know, someone once told me, uh, I worked for a, a gentleman, he said, "Ne- I never ask of someone to do something I haven't already done myself." And he was the boss. Okay. He would take out the trash. He would do whatever. He always wanted to make sure of that. Same thing here, I feel like.

You know, you wanna make sure that you're doing the small things, and sometimes the small things have the biggest impact. Yeah. Uh, so I think that's, uh, that's very important. And he, he definitely showed that, and it did lead to him doing greater things. And whether it leads to greater things or not, still doing those small things impacts people in a big way.

There's no doubt about that because can you imagine, I don't think, you know, all of these guys like Steven and Paul and, you know, we did a podcast, of all these folks, did they ever consider that there'd be this big book that was changing people's lives, and I'm talking about the Bible, that they'd have prominent places in there?[00:23:00] 

To them, they were just doing their little bit, and that's all they were- they, they were being true to what their calling was. I completely agree. I mean, their focus was on doing the right thing and following Christ and living their life the right way. And it ... You know, if you're thinking about the results, get back to golf, if you're focused on the results, you're not gonna do very good.

Uh-huh. You need to stay in the process. They stayed in the process of doing what they needed to do and doing their job and focusing on that, and the rest of them take care of itself. They weren't worried about that. They just wanted to make sure they were doing the right thing, going down the right road, and that's a great thing for me, for all of us to learn from.

Yeah. I'm gonna pivot to the coaching side here and, and hearken back to my days as a coach and then reference a great football coach in Nick Saban, Saban, where he was always just like, "Just do your job." Mm-hmm. Like, "Do your job, and we'll be okay." Because I don't know about you, you can speak to this more than me, like in golf especially, if we start worrying about the score [00:24:00] or worrying about the green jacket at the end of all of this, y- you're not gonna play as or swing as freely or make as, you know, smart decisions if you g- got your mind elsewhere as opposed to where you are right now at this very point in the journey.

That's exactly right. I mean, you have to stay there because once you get ahead of yourself, can't be thinking about the 18th hole when you're on 15. You gotta be thinking about that shot and that shot only. You really have to compartmentalize. Yeah. And focus on that shot, and then that's all you can do. I make, I make the best effort I can on one swing, get the best effort, have positive thoughts, good visualization.

That's all I can do. I don't need to worry about anything else but that shot 'cause I can't control anything else. So I wanna focus on what I can control, and Steven was focused on what he could control, doing his job, feeding the widow- widows, serving Christ, and doing that. He focused on that. He wasn't worried about anything else.

He knew, you know, it's kind of like, I love the saying, "I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future." Yeah. So, you know, Steven knew the future, or he knew he was in God's hand, he [00:25:00] would be fine. He didn't know the future. But he knew who held the future. Mm-hmm. And I think that's the way we n- we need to live.

And they say, you know, I don't know what the future holds. Steven didn't either. But we know who holds it, and, uh, we're in good hands 'cause no one, like the scripture says, no one can snatch us out of his hand. We're, we're, we're sealed by the Holy Spirit, and we are safe.

Whenever I read these stories, Larry, I try and put myselves, myself in these people's situations. Now, it's not like when I was in, uh, young and in Bible study at, uh, at, uh, church where it was little felt figures on the felt board, you know, the ... And they look all romantic and little puffy sheep and stuff like that, and it made the nativity scene seem so pretty.

It was anything but. Um, and I'm not looking for justification now, but I have to imagine that even Stephen or all of these sorts of guys, there had to be a moment where they, you have that seed of doubt or fear or whatever creep in. Well, like Joshua who, who we've talked about, and all that he kept on saying [00:26:00] to, the guys were saying to him is, "Be strong and courageous.

Don't be afraid." And, and, and it was repeated a few times. And I'm taking solace in this, and I want your commentary because you seem like you've got it together all the time, that even you or Stephen at times go, "I don't have this, but then I take courage in the fact that I'm gonna lean on my source and give it my very best effort."

Do you get, you get where I'm going here? I do, exactly. I mean, there, you know, there's nothing wrong with having doubts. We all can have doubts, and that's when you go back and you look at the evidence. You know, look at what you believe in. Mm-hmm. You go look at what God has done. As, as he was talking to the Sanhedrin there, he went back and told how God had used Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses- Yeah

had taken the people out of Egypt. We need to, and we need to pass that information on to new people, to our children, to our grandchildren so they can understand what God has done. And once again, our doubts will go away once we go through the evidence. So the evidence stands up. Like you said, the truth, no one is gonna debate the [00:27:00] death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ in a court of law, 'cause they're gonna lose.

There's no way you can disprove it, so they're gonna lose that. So we focus on what believes, what we understand, what we know from the Bible, and, uh, that takes the, that takes, takes the doubt- take ... Excuse me. Takes the doubts away. And, uh, so it's ... Uh, don't beat yourself up for having a doubt. Just look back over the evidence, realize what's God's done in your life and other people's life, what He's done in the scriptures, and that brings you right back to a nice, strong faith that God gives us.

The Reverend Larry Myers, folks. Well. You, you touched, you touched on legacy, right? And that's something I'd put down here. Maybe you were sneaking a look at my notes. Um, I said the one thing Stephen did not live to see was probably his greatest fruit or his legacy, where his actions during this ghastly event of stoning changed Paul's li- changed Saul's life to Paul.

And, and you talked about leaving a legacy for ki- kids, people in your care, all that sort of thing. Uh, [00:28:00] that is essentially what it's all about. No matter the, the green jackets and the trophies and stuff, it's, it's what you do for the next generation. Uh, am, am I, am I getting there, coach? Is that, that, was what I'm asking.

Yeah. That, that's, that's all. We can't take any materialistic thing to heaven with us. Mm-hmm. But through God, 'cause he does it, we can help take other souls with us to heaven. So that's what's really important, relationship with God first and foremost, our vertical relationship, and then our horizontal relationships with other people.

How we can now impact heaven by having an impact on other people and making sure we populate heaven and depopulate hell. Preach it. Okay. Here's another life lesson, 'cause clearly this Stephen guy had read the scrolls. Mm-hmm. Because when you look at him recount the entire story, 'cause he was basically asked, "Are you guilty of these things?"

And he launched into this diatribe about Abraham, one of the, the forefathers of the [00:29:00] tribe of Is- well, the nation of Israel. Right. So the life lesson, lesson was to be really immersed in scripture. And I'm here, a guy sitting in front of you right now, a friend, and everyone who's listening to this and watching this, going, "I used to read the Bible, but I'd skim read the thing.

I never really let it read me." Um, and Stephen's speech, by all accounts, was not prepared. They asked him one question and he went completely another, and ended it with the exclamation point to call basically the lawmakers of the lands to say, "You people are like snakes. You speak one thing and you do entirely another."

So I guess what I'm getting here for the non-Bible readers, it's worth your while just to go and read the crazy stories. And for the Bible readers, really go and read the thing because you must know it, 'cause every time you sign an autograph, you put a Bible verse underneath it. Yeah, I mean, someone much smarter than me and wiser than me said, "You need to read the Bible like you're studying [00:30:00] chemical engineering or, you know, something.

You can't ... Don't just re- read it flippantly. You dig in there and you dig." The more we put into it, the more we'll get out of it. I mean, reading the Bible's great, but we need to study it just like we would some hard course in college. Really dig in there, dive in there, and the more we study it, the more God will reveal himself to it.

And, uh, you know, it's the one book that promises never to leave us void. We ... If we really go in there, dig, and try to get something out of it, he'll guide us and his Spirit will teach us and guide us. And we need to pray before we read, because, uh, another thing, uh, someone wiser than me ... We need to pray to God so that we can hear the word and we share it to other people.

I mean, what, what the guy said, he said, "The devil's okay if you talk to people, just don't pray to God." 'Cause if you're not praying to God, your talk to people isn't gonna have much of an impact. Yeah, true. And I ... How wise is that? 'Cause we need to be talking to God about other people, and then we can talk to people about God.

But if you're just talking to people about God without God's influence and [00:31:00] with our prayer life, it's just not gonna have the same impact. Isn't it amazing how just even a pop prayer at times, just acknowledging God for who he is and the way he provides before any endeavor, it seems like- You have this wind in your sails, I guess would be the way I'd describe it.

I can't tell you how many times, Larry, I've listened back to lessons that I've given or, um, broadcasts that I've been on, or even this show now, 'cause I'm praying a lot before this show. 'Cause I can vamp about golf, but I can't vamp about this stuff. And I, I'm like, "I don't know how I'm gonna make this last for 40 minutes," but gosh, when you set it up with prayer, it...

You get the wind in your sails so quickly. You, you experience that, I'm sure? No doubt about it. I mean, I love it, you know, like Philippians 4:6-7, it said, "Pray without ce- Pray, uh, be anxious for nothing. Pray without, uh, thanksgiving in your heart and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ."

I kind of butchered it, but, uh- On my flag. [00:32:00] It's over there. But, uh, you know, He, He gives us a peace that goes beyond understanding. There's no peace like the peace we get from God, and, uh, it's just amazing. So we keep praying. We're, we're called to pray without ceasing. It needs to be our spiritual breathing, and I've re- I've really been working hard to pray more, 'cause I can't pray too much.

Yeah. Pray, pray about simple things. You know, Christ... You know, someone said, "Do a study of the prayer life of Christ," and, and I think there are m- you know, 15 times quoted in the scriptures. Now, He prayed more than that, but there are 15. 11 of them are in Luke, because Luke is talking about the Son of Man.

You know, each, each gospel talks about a different thing. You know, Matthew's talking about the King. John's talking about the Son of God. Uh, I think Mark is talking about the servant of Chri- Ser- Christ being the servant, and Luke is talking about the Son of Man, so he's showing how through His humanity and how if Christ needed to pray, how much more do I need to pray?

Yeah. My goodness. And they, they, you know... And the cool [00:33:00] thing is the one question the disciples... And I never thought about this till this gentleman ... uh, s- in his, in his audio. The one question disciples asked Him... I mean, think about it. If we saw Christ today, we'd probably have a lot of questions. Yeah. The one thing they asked Him, "Teach us how to pray."

The one thing they asked Him, said, "Teach us how to pray." And we call it the Lord's Prayer, but it's really the disciples' prayer. Mm-hmm. 'Cause the Lord never prayed that prayer 'cause He has no sin, and we're asking forgiveness for sin in that prayer, so... Not that that matters, but I call it the disciples' prayer.

But it's so important to pray about everything, about food, about family, about friends, about people that are sick, and about guidance and wisdom. We need to search God's wisdom and understanding like we're searching for rare diamonds and jewels. We need to just search for it and, uh, we'll, we'll never come up empty.

We just continue to rely and depend on Him. Search for wisdom like we're searching for jewels. Oh, yeah. There you go. He is a wise man. I told you, folks. Um, some leadership lessons. I wanna [00:34:00] start with this, and I said at the top of the show that I see a lot of Steven in you. Um, not lightheartedly, because if someone had to say to me, "Larry Mize," my response would be awfully humble.

Humble where I find it being someone who admires success in golf so much because I understand what it takes, that someone as decorated as you could be... Like, peop- if people didn't know who you were, they would never know who you were because you're not gonna tell them, "I'm the Masters champion, and I've done this and I've done that."

So the leadership lesson behind this is here's Steven, who was performing signs and wonders, right, and wowing people Yet he's the same guy who's feeding women. He did, he wasn't letting all of these acknowledgements and gifts and things that he had go to his head. He, he was certainly more hum- showed more humility of any sort of giftedness, and I feel like that's a great way to be attractive to people if you're wanting to [00:35:00] lead.

You've already touched on that. Yeah, I completely agree, and he's a great example of that. And he did all these things. He never got big-headed. I mean, they talk about in the scripture where we're talking about him, he goes to, to Simon, who's, who's, who's doing wonders the wrong way, uh, in like chapter seven, I think it is, or maybe later in six.

I can't remember. And, uh, he's doing it for everybody to be impressed with him. Yeah. Stephen's doing it to further the Kingdom of God. He's not worried about himself. He wants people to see Christ in him, and there's the, there's the right kind of humility that we need to have. He's focused on that. Not any glory for himself.

It's all glory for God. Yeah. And, uh, that's what we wanna do. I mean, you know, I, I, I always wanted to glorify God in whatever I did, and I, I hope I did. But, uh, I'll, I'll maybe if I'll find out later. But, uh, it's, uh, it, it's, it's a great story. I mean, Stephen is, uh ... He's become one of my favorite characters in the Bible through, through studying this, and I, I appreciate you getting, uh, having me on.

I will ... I'll say [00:36:00] this of the three leadership lessons I gleaned from this. Every single one of them speaks of you. Here's another one. Um, service is the starting point, 'cause he was starting in administration for the disciples. Then he was, uh, basic, basically waiting tables, and eventually he became the first martyr, and was speaking in signs and wonders and stuff.

Now, I remember wa- watching you, 'cause you hire caddies, right? For the folks who don't know golf, at the professional level you have a caddie who carries your bag for you and does all your services for you, basically. And I'll never forget your, your caddie's name was Chris. Mm-hmm. Right? And I'm watching Chris, and I ask Chris, I'm like, "What's it like working with Larry?"

And he said, "Oh, he's the best." You know, uh, Chris like, Chris is like, "I know when I've done something wrong, 'cause he'll let me know." But Chris, then Chris says, "He does it very kindly." And then he said also, he goes, "I've gotta stop Larry from trying to clean his own golf clubs." Where where I've ... And, and I, [00:37:00] so I would watch for this and I'd see you, especially when you're practicing.

You'd hit balls. Then you'd go and wipe off the club and put it back in the bag. And Chris would nod at me, go, "You see?" Now, I, I'm seeing you in that because, like, you are, even though you are the employer of said caddie, you're still in service mode even though you te- you're sorta helping him out with his job a little bit.

Well, you know, I, I don't mind doing that in the first place, but it kind of gets back to I, I don't want to, uh, I don't ever want to think I can't do the simple things myself. You know? Kind of like that friend of mine that told me, you know, never gonna do some- ask someone to do something I hadn't done myself.

And, uh, I enjoy helping out. I mean, we're a team out there. I mean, I, I am the boss, but I think of us as a team out there. We work together and help each other out. So he helps me, and you know, I, I help him whenever I can, whenever he'll let me. He'll get mad at me sometimes, and he's bigger than me, so I do what he tells me.

Here's the last one, and this is the strange thing about golf, is that golf sometimes, like you've been on a Ryder Cup team, but, but it's, [00:38:00] uh, it's an alone sport And Stephen obviously spoke truth to power when he was faced up to the Jewish leaders. But real leadership, to me, requires the courage to really stand alone and to, to take on the headwind.

And gosh, if he didn't. I mean, here's one guy facing a panel of, like, how many of these Jewish leaders that they were, all powerful. They can determine your fate basically, and he was like, "Here I am. I'm Stephen, and this is what I'm talking about." No, you're right. I mean, it's o- once again a great example.

You know, once again, I, I think the only way to... I- you, you can do it the wrong way, but the right way to do that is making sure you're focused on the right thing, and you're, you know, doing what God wants you to do, which he knew he was. He was led by the Spirit. Mm-hmm. And I think that's so much of it, if we, if we're led by the Spirit.

I mean, they don't ... W- we can be led by the Spirit, or we can push the Spirit away. And, uh, so I think that's [00:39:00] what he did. He was led by the Spirit, and that gave him the strength to stand up and do what's right. And, uh, you can stand up and do what's right for the wrong reason. If you stand up and do something for the wrong reasons- Yeah

probably not, probably not gonna be right if you do it that way. Mm-hmm. But standing up for the right reasons, it can be scary, but as you just quoted earlier, God c- we pray about it, God will give us the peace and the strength to do it. That's the thing. I know that I can't do a lot of things on my own, so I'm always praying for strength to do stuff, and I was praying for strength and guidance as I came today.

I want to bring honor and glory to Him today in what I do, and I know you do. And, uh, that's why we're praying to do the right thing. And I know, guarantee you, Stephen was prayed up before he went and talked to the Sanhedrin. Heck yes. Uh, we, we've, you've said this a few times, so in the interests of understanding, I want to d- I, I just want to touch on it real fast.

You, you say led by the Spirit. So for the folks who don't know what led by the Spirit feels like, look, we have the gifts of the Spirit. You know, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, self-control. You know, all that's [00:40:00] gentleness. What is being led by the Spirit ... And you've u- used the words, words peace and joy.

What does being led by the Spirit feel like to Larry, if you're prepared to share? Yeah. You know, that's, that's a good question. It's, you know, number one, you don't have the Spirit until you come to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. So there is no Spirit without that. So, you know, once you- we do that- That God sends the Holy Spirit to live in us, and He's indwelling inside of us, and we guide it.

Mm. So to me, when I have the peace, when I know that, uh... I think it's important to seek wise counsel, which I do, people older and wiser than me. My w- my wife, younger than me, but sometimes wiser than me, I, I ask her opinion, and I get those opinions, and you measure it against the scripture. As long as I'm doing something and it's not going against the scripture, and it falls within line with what the scripture says, then I know I'm within God's will, then I have the peace, and then I have the courage to go.

If I just go running off real quick, I, I gotta be careful with that. I need to make [00:41:00] sure that I've done my homework as far as checking the scriptures, checking people, praying about it, make sure I've got it, and then I've got the peace and the strength, and I feel content and peaceful to do it. Even though I may still be nervous, I'm not saying the nerves won't be there, and there won't be a little bit of stuff, but I have the confidence and peace that, that only God can give me.

It reminds me what you say there of the Bible verse that says, "Your word," or the Bible, "is a lamp unto my feet and a light to my path." Guidance, right? Guidance. There's no question. I mean, I mean, I'm always taken back. I mean, the creator of this world, first off, wants a relationship with all of us, wants a relationship with me.

Mm-hmm. He's written a book that He wants me to learn about Him, learn how to live my life. He created me, so if somebody creates something, they're the best one to tell them how the thing works. Yeah. You know? If, if, if, if I buy a clock from a watchmaker, clock maker, I gotta go to him. "Okay, what can I do to fix it?"

Well, [00:42:00] God knows this better than anybody else, so I want to follow His word, His love letter to us in this, in the Bible, and, uh, listen to His Spirit and pray and, you know, live my life for Him. I mean, there's just nothing li-... It, it's the, um, greatest love story of all time, that the God of this world wants a relationship with us.

You've tickled my sensibility here, and I'm gonna say this and let you respond. Most folks are going to social media for advice on how to live their life, right? So they're not going to the maker, they're going to an algorithm. Disastrous. And that's why depression is rampant right now, that's in my opinion.

But here's the thing, too. A lot of people will say, "Well, this Bible," here's mine, right? "It's boring, and there's so many big words." And yes, if you read, you know, Leviticus and stuff where they're listing all of the genealogy, yeah, it's, th- that's kind of boring. But if you just go and read these stories about these heroes, and then you live them kind of like a movie, [00:43:00] you get hooked, 'cause it's like this can't be real.

But these are real people. And the more now s- uh, the more studies are being done, everything is being proved right all of the time now if you're really paying attention. No doubt. And, and you, you don't wanna start in Leviticus reading the Bible. You don't wanna start with that book, no doubt about it. You know, start, start, start in the New Testament.

Yeah. Of course, Genesis has some great stories, uh, as well, but they're great stories, they're great life lessons. I mean, all of Paul's letters and the Gospels are a great place to start. But, uh, you know, people just need to not give up. You know, keep reading, keep reading, don't give up. God will, God will show it to you.

Okay. Couple more, then I'll let you go. Um, legacy stuff. The... First off, and going back to social media, everyone is... Self-actualization wants all of us to kind of fulfill our role, be recognized, and so we're all going to social media for likes and recognition. [00:44:00] But yes, the, yes, Stephen in the world, the lawmakers rejected him.

Yet when he's about to die, he looks to heaven and sees Jesus. So the ultimate recognition for all of us is heaven's recognition, and not what's going around, on around us in this little journey through this, this little journey you talk that we go on through Earth. No doubt about it. You know, I, I want to, and I think we all want to make an impact.

We wanna have an et- eternal impact, not a temporal impact. Yeah. We can impact things here that just last for a little while, but when we impact people and share the gospel with them, share the love of Christ with them, when we go and feed people and help people and do the thing God wants us to do, now we're talking about, we're talking about some eternal benefits when we are st- impacting people for the cause of Christ.

And that's where we wanna leave a legacy there, 'cause other legacies, they're not gonna last. But I want a legacy that'll last, and, uh, hear the words, [00:45:00] "Well done, good and faithful servant." You're sounding like Stephen there, because you're right. I mean, you don't have to give thousands of dollars or whatever to one or other cause.

Just go and feed someone. Go and help them- Mm ... mow their lawn. A- any small act that shows the love you speak of, that could be that little act that changes that individual's life. You know, you never know what's gonna happen. I've had, uh, people s- I've had... Forget me, people will say stuff about someone, how that impacted them years ago, and now it's l-...

You never know. You may do something today that 10 years from now has impacted that person in a positive way, and it could ma- change their life for the better. And so you just never know what'll happen. Just keep, as they say, you keep planting the seeds. Mm. Keep watering, keep doing everything, and God'll, God'll take care of the rest.

We can't do anything. God is the one that makes the changes. We just do our part to share the love, and the Christ is the one that converts and convicts people, not us. Yeah. Okay, so here's Stephen first martyr in Acts, um, [00:46:00] influences Paul by just his actions while he was being killed brutally. And in the end, his final act was forgiveness.

Mm. Almost mirroring what Jesus w- Jesus did. Now, here's the legacy lesson, Larry. Or the life lesson. In fact, even the leadership lesson. This act of forgiveness- Mm ... which is so hard but so necessary. I, I, I want you to just follow your spirit and comment on that, please. Well, I think it's just something that people may not wanna read, and I wish I could know which gospel said, I'm sorry I don't.

But it says, "If you don't forgive others-" God's not gonna forgive you Mm-hmm, yeah Simple as that. I mean, and the, and the, the prayer says... Again, I never thought about this when I was reading it when I was younger. You know, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, forgive us our sins as we forgive those who forgive us."

Never, never really kinda, never clicked in when I was younger, [00:47:00] as we forgive those. So, you know, we need to forgive people, and that, that's showing that we really do have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, because that's the only way we can forgive people. I'll hear people say, "Well, I'll never f- can- I can't forgive that person."

I understand the trouble. I understand being hard. But yes, you can once you trust in Jesus and you realize all that he's forgiven you for. I've got no right to hold any sin against anybody. I need to be forgiving as Christ was, and it's something that we need to do. It's, it's... We're called to do that as Christians.

Yeah, imagine this, folks. If you just said to embody that forgiveness to your little world around you, how good that world would be. It'd be a lot better place. Amen. All right, I left it for last because this is like the ultimate in wisdom. It came to me via Larry Myers. It came from Bonnie, his lovely wife, Myers.

And we were talking about sons. You got three of them. And I was a new father, and we were talking about stuff, and you were hitting golf shots, and then you looked up [00:48:00] at me and just out of the blue you... I could see you were thinking. You looked at me and said, "You can pick your sin, but you can't pick your consequence."

Mm. Something to that effect. I paraphrase, but that was what I got out of what you said. And I was like, gosh, that's a life lesson. Where everyone's like, "Well, I wanna do this." It's a bit shady. Um, but, but to every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. And to anything you do is you're gonna, you're gonna reap something from that down the road.

And if there's a life lesson I want Larry Maas to leave here on the heels of Steven, it's that one, because there's so much wisdom in that statement if you choose to abide by it and own it. Well, that, that's, uh, all ... A- any wisdom I got, I g- I, I, I gave you. I got from somebody else. So you're giving me too much credit.

But, but that's true. I mean, you know, we can pick the sin, and sin can look good when we're in the wrong frame of mind. I mean, I love the anacro- [00:49:00] anachronism, if I'm saying the word right, HALT. Mm. Don't do anything when you're hungry, angry, lonely or tired. Always remember HALT. Yeah. Hungry, angry, lonely or tired.

Be careful when those are happening, 'cause then all of a sudden sin can look better, better to you, and it can be a temptation. And like I said, you could pick the sin, but you can't pick the consequence, which w- which someone told me. So we need to be careful in those instances there and make sure that we're, uh, stepping back, slowing down, HALT.

Get whatever we need, refreshment, sleep, whatever. And, uh, make sure we're not fall- going down the wrong path. 'Cause it's easy to go. We're all susceptible. You know, someone told me years ago ... I remember it hit me first, uh, in a kind of really. He said, he, he said, "I'm sus- I'm capable of any sin up to and including murder."

And I thought when I was younger, I thought, "Really? Not me." And I went, "You know, he's right." Soon as I take my eyes off of Christ and I'm not following the Spirit, I'm capable of a lot of bad things. So I wanna make sure I keep [00:50:00] my eyes on Christ, keep following the Spirit so I don't give into that temptation.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is Larry Maas, uh, just a gem of a human being. He doesn't do social media if you wanna follow him. It's probably why he's looking so well. Yeah, no social media. That's right. If, if you ... people wanna support or whatever, is there like a foundation or anywhere, any- anywhere they can go in your name or

Just, you know, continue to support the right ... You know, support your ... You know, if God leads you to support your church or a, a ministry, th- that'd be great. Uh, whatever, whatever gives them peace that God is guiding them to do. Right. If, if I know Larry Mazza, he was about to say, "And pray before you do so as well," right?

Yeah, pray for wisdom always. Always pray for wisdom. Oh, I love you so very much. Thank you for joining me on this show, Larry. I really appreciate you. Mark, it was wonderful being with you. Thank for, thanks for having me. And for the rest of you, thanks for joining us. I'm very thankful for you. I pray in some small way that [00:51:00] blesses you.

If it does, share it. Um, if you're so led, reach out to us, message us on, uh, social media if we can pray for you or whatever the case might be, because we're all going through this, uh, this journey called life, and we all wanna do it better. So appreciate you guys. God bless, and as always, go and b