The Greater Call Podcast – Stephen | The Crimson Cord with Grant Boone

In Episode 26 of The Greater Call, Mark Immelman is joined by his Amen Corner broadcast colleague and friend Grant Boone for a powerful conversation about Rahab—one of the most unexpected heroes of the faith.

Rahab’s story begins in brokenness, scandal, and cultural rejection, yet God rewrites her legacy through courage, faith, and redemption. Known in Scripture as “Rahab the prostitute,” she becomes a woman whose faith saves her family, protects God’s people, and ultimately places her in the lineage of Jesus.

Through honesty, humor, and deep biblical reflection, Mark and Grant explore how Rahab’s life reveals the heart of God: He restores what is broken, includes those the world excludes, and uses unlikely people for extraordinary purposes.

In This Episode, You’ll Discover:

🎙️ Why Rahab is one of the most surprising heroes listed in the Bible’s Hall of Faith
🎙️ How God transforms broken stories into stories of redemption and legacy
🎙️ Why Rahab’s faith was courageous, risky, and deeply practical
🎙️ What the crimson cord represents in Rahab’s story
🎙️ How Rahab risked everything to protect the Israelite spies
🎙️ Why her story challenges us not to label or write people off
🎙️ How Rahab moved from outsider to part of the Messianic lineage
🎙️ What her courage teaches us about faith, family, and legacy
🎙️ Why God’s grace reaches beyond reputation, culture, and circumstance
🎙️ How leaders can learn to see people through the lens of redemption

Key Themes

Redemption Beyond Reputation

Rahab enters the biblical story with a label attached to her name, but God’s grace writes a far greater ending. Her past does not define her future.

Faith That Takes Action

Rahab didn’t just believe the reports she heard about the God of Israel—she acted on that belief, risking her life to protect the spies.

Courage Under Pressure

Helping the spies meant risking treason and certain death. Rahab’s bravery was not theoretical; it was costly and immediate.

God Uses the Unlikely

Rahab was a Gentile, a woman, and a prostitute—three strikes in the eyes of her culture. Yet God chose her as part of His redemptive story.

Legacy Through Faithfulness

Rahab’s decision did not just save her own life. It protected her family and placed her in a lineage that would lead to King David and ultimately Jesus.

Don’t Write People Off

Rahab’s story challenges us to stop defining people by their worst moments and instead consider what God may still be doing in them.

The Crimson Cord

The scarlet cord hanging from Rahab’s window became a sign of rescue, protection, and covenant promise—a visual reminder that redemption often comes through faith-filled obedience.

🔑 Key Verses Mentioned

Hebrews 11:31 — Rahab is honored in the Hall of Faith because she welcomed the spies by faith
Joshua 2 — Rahab hides the Israelite spies and asks for protection for her family
Matthew 1 — Rahab appears in the genealogy of Jesus
James 2:25 — Rahab is remembered for faith expressed through action

🔥 Takeaways

➡ Your past does not disqualify you from God’s purpose
➡ Faith becomes powerful when it moves from belief to action
➡ Courage often looks like doing the right thing when the stakes are high
➡ God sees beyond labels, reputation, and social status
➡ Redemption is not just personal—it can impact generations
➡ Leaders should look for the potential God sees in people, not just the past others remember
➡ God specializes in turning broken stories into legacy stories
➡ The crimson cord reminds us that rescue, grace, and redemption are always possible

🙌 About Grant Boone

Grant Boone is a respected broadcaster, storyteller, and longtime voice in golf. A colleague of Mark Immelman on the Amen Corner broadcast at the Masters, Grant brings a thoughtful, faith-filled perspective to the story of Rahab and the larger theme of God’s redemptive work through unlikely people.

🎙️ Follow Mark Immelman

Instagram & YouTube: @MarkImmelman
Facebook: @markimmelmangolf
X: @mark_immelman
LinkedIn: @mark-immelman-87ab46162
Website: markimmelman.com

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Website→ https://markimmelman.com/the-greater-call/

✨ Be full of joy in all things, no matter where you are. Be thankful. Go and be a legend! ✨

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to this Greater Call podcast, episode 26, titled The Crimson Cord. Um, that's not a play on my love for the University of Alabama. Um, and I'm thrilled. I- if you're listening on audio, you need to go to YouTube. The handle there is @thegreatercall. Search and subscribe. As you do on all the socials, go and find us and tell your friends about what we're doing here.

This is the place that we try and create so you can learn lessons in life and lessons on how to lead people, and lessons, most importantly, on how to leave a legacy for folks following you. And I'm, I'm thrilled to have my, uh, Amen Corner announce colleague, my leader. Um, I'm wearing the Amen Corner hat if you do go watch on YouTube.

It's Grant Boone. Grant, welcome. Nice to see you. How are you doing? Well, I feel like we need to have the music playing behind us. That's ... whenever we ever [00:01:00] start any of our shows, we always- The tri- ... are lobbying to have the, not the exciting drum roll, but we like the doo, doo, doo. Yeah, so, so anyway, it's great to be with you, my friend, in, uh, in this setting.

I like it when you're right next to me and I can reach out and touch you, but this is the next best thing. Usually, folks, let's take you behind the curtains a little bit. Uh, the Amen Corner channel is obviously Amen Corner at the Masters. And I've been alongside Grant for, what, s- seven or, I don't know, how- Eight years now

years, yeah. And we sit in this beautiful broadcast booth that's got, like, oak desks and television monitors around us. And when we get in there, all the other booths, people have got bright lights and stuff. We turn the lights down low. We just have desk lamps and, and there's two types of theme music that CBS play.

They have a triumphant sort of a sounding, um, intro. It, and it's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's one that's, we call it the Twinkle Twinkle music. And if [00:02:00] you imagine a, a little brook, you know, running over rocks and pebbles and such. A little tributary, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of what it sounds like.

And calling Amen Corner is really an ethereal sort of a reverential thing. And, and Grant sets the perfect tone for that, so let's start with that. Grant, you've got a wonderful way with words. And you had texted me... First off, folks. Yeah. I normally make recommendations to guests who come on this Greater Call show, and I offer them people to talk about.

So I say to Grant, this was actually at the Masters. I said to him, "You're a brother in Christ. I want you to join me for the show. Who would you like to talk about?" And without a doubt, uh, with- without hesitation and doubt, Grant, you went for Rahab, known as the r- the righteous prostitute. Yeah. So, uh, um, I wanna quickly read you something that you texted me, and I'll let you go from there.

You say, "Rahab Rehab-" [00:03:00] She debuts in an adulterer's bed, reappears in the line of the Messiah, and is last seen being celebrated in the Bible Heroes Hall of Fame. I mean, so beautiful. That's the perfect kicking off point. So off you go. Well, um, I, I think it, it's kind of typical me, a l- little bit off the beaten path maybe, but, um, I would say not all biblical heroes wear capes.

Some wear lingerie and, uh, and are, a- and are, are, and are, are, are first seen, you know, um, in maybe a less than flattering light, maybe, um, in the flicker of, of a, of a candle, uh, at a, i- in, in a house of ill repute, let's say. But, um, uh, I think one of the themes we see throughout scripture is that God makes things good.[00:04:00] 

Yes. People then somehow i- invariably make those things bad Uh, sometimes intentionally, sometimes not, but we just tend to screw things up. And then God keeps turning things that were bad back into the way they were meant to be. Mm-hmm. And so Rahab, to me, is a great example of a couple of things. One, the way that we all can change, but also how do we look at other people?

Do we write them off once and for all? Sh- she's the prostitute a- and therefore will always be. And God says, "Wait a second. There's a plot twist coming." And, uh, there is glory and redemption available for all. Well, yeah, no kidding. Because as we mentioned, if you're unfamiliar with this Greater Call show, if you're welcome, joining us for the first time, welcome.

If you've been around for [00:05:00] our first 25 episodes, the original reference point was Hebrews and where they have the Hall of Faith. And it's Abraham and Isaac and a lot of the names you know. The usual suspects, yes. The usual suspect. And then you have two women listed in there. A- and Dottie Pepper, a good friend of yours and mine- Oh, yeah

she's been on the show before, and she spoke... She was the first lady on the show to speak about women. Yeah, I loved it. She was really good. Talked about Mary Magdalene, she spoke about Mary, mother, and then the woman at the well. And but there's two women, 'cause women were not... They were less than people. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. But the two women listed were Sarah, Sarai, wife of Abraham, and Rahab, prostitute. And I mean, uh, the more I say that to myself, Grant, the more I'm like, "Absolutely crazy." Yeah. The, the grace of our God to look past someone's circumstance [00:06:00] because something special, he had something special in store for that person.

Right. This is the other heroes we've covered, Gideon and company like that, you know, they all had their shortcomings. Peter, and you know, we're all human beings really. Of course. But here's Rahab, um- ... cast out of society essentially. Canaanites, so Jews weren't too fond of the Canaanites. No, no. So, so it was everything was striking against her, and now she's listed amongst the heroes of our faith.

It's, it's just absolutely crazy if you contemplate it that way. Yeah. I- I- you start out and she's, she's a Gentile. Yeah. And, um, tribes, people, um, people groups, countries back then weren't known for playing well with others, let's say. Um- That was- ... you, you were your t- you were your people, and you'd go to war to protect your people, and the other [00:07:00] people, you know, unless you were using them for trade or for some other reason, they were them and you were you.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and, y- you know, so she starts out, she's, she's a Gentile. She's a woman, you know, as you noted. In that, especially Old Testament times, women were ... I mean, I'm not sure they were much higher than, than livestock in terms of ... They, they were property ef- effectively. Mm-hmm. A- and then she was a prostitute.

So, uh, there were a few women elevated i- in, in the Old Testament. You have Deborah and some others who were judges or, uh, e- even kings, the occasional king i- in, in other countries. But for the most part, women were second-class citizens. They were property. They were an asset. Uh, and then you have this woman who, you know, i- is said to be a prostitute.

And so, um, to, to see that- Y- the next time we see her in [00:08:00] scripture, it's in the New Testament, and she's being listed in the line of the Messiah. Uh, it, it, it is stunning. A- and I think it's an example of the way that we as human beings, and I think we see it maybe right now in our political world and even in our cultural world more than ever, we are seeking to divide.

And the gospel, the, the, the, the real ethos of the creator is to bring in. It's to bring together. And so never would you include women in a lineage. It's about he was the son of him, and he was the son of him, and he beget him, and he beget him, and he beget him. And yet when it comes to figuring out how we got down to Jesus being born, we see women throughout that lineage, and one of them is not even a Jew, and she's certainly [00:09:00] not the best of the best of another people.

She's the worst of, of, of the others. Mm. Uh, and, and I think we learn ... I think we could learn a lot from that. We're trying to divide Jesus's ... A- and, and really the whole ethic of scripture, the ethic of God i- in, in God's self is bringing together. We are trying to label. You know, God is trying to strip away anything that would, would keep us apart.

Mm-hmm. Perfect segue. I wanted to read you this verse, and then we'll tell the quick story of Rahab. Mm-hmm. "By faith, Rahab the prostitute ... " It's actually listed like this in the Bible. This is in Hebrews 11:31. "By faith, Rahab the prostitute did not perish with others who were disobedient because she had given friendly, a friendly welcome to the spies."

Okay, so, so that's exactly what you say. She [00:10:00] reached beyond herself, reached beyond culture, reached beyond everything to go out of her way to provide haven for these two spies. And the story starts in the Old Testament, if you wanna read it. It's early in the Book of Joshua. Yeah. Um- By the way, friendly welcome from a prostitute could have multiple connotations.

Well, I wouldn't say- That's not what this is talking about. No, you're probably- It, it was truly offering life-saving hospitality. That's what she was doing, as we read in Joshua 2. Mm-hmm. So here's how the story goes, and I'll paraphrase. Uh, the Israelites are sitting right on the border of the Promised Land, Canaan, and Joshua, who's leading, uh, the, uh, Israelites at that stage, this is after Moses had passed away, um, Joshua sends spies to go and do a little reconnaissance.

And they go to Jericho, the city of Jericho, and they go in there, and Rahab, again, provides haven for them because they are toying with their own lives. And in so [00:11:00] doing, she risked treason, certain death, you know, if she was caught with them. And so she's, she's given them a place to hide out while they're doing their recon, and she catches wind of the

Well, well, first she said to them, "I know that your God is great because of the stories I've heard." And I wanna ... I'll get back to that in a little while, how faith comes by hearing. But then some of the city army, whatever you wanna call them, come searching. They catch wind that the, the, uh, Israelite spies are there.

She hides them away. She tells the, um, the, uh, military, let's call them, spies, policemen, "No, they've left and they went that way." Which is believable because, like you say, because of her reputation, people would be coming and going out of the house all of the time. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So they go off.

She cuts a deal with the two spies saying, "I'll protect you if you protect my family and me." They cut this deal. They go off. [00:12:00] They report back to Joshua, and this is sort of the, um, genesis of the Israelite army coming in, seeing a ... She'd allowed the, the, the spies to escape from the wall through a window in Jericho down a scarlet crimson cord, and the army, the Israelite army see this and they spare Rahab and her family.

And then she goes on to, um, marry Salmon. She has a son, Boaz, who's like a legend of legends, and this is in the lineage of Jesus. Uh, well, no, King David and then Jesus. Sure. So that's the story. I want to look at the person of Rahab, Grant. Yeah. And I wa- and, and I would toss you the first characteristic I see out of her, just reading, 'cause it's not listed, but I'm imagining.

Yeah. And golly, this is a brave woman. She risked her life to harbor two people she [00:13:00] didn't know just because a sto- of a story, uh, that the Israelites, that their god, the God of Heaven- Yeah ... parted the water so they could walk through the sea And wherever they went, armies fell over in front of them because God Almighty was leading them.

She hears stories of this and trusts that story enough that she would protect these two men. Uh, that is, that is brave and it's loaded with faith, in my opinion. Yeah. I also think you, uh, you know, you say not only is she a prostitute, she's a lying prostitute. She, she becomes a, a hero of the faith for l- for being the lying prostitute.

She literally tells, yes, the, the, the military leaders of Jericho, uh, uh, a, an out and, an out falsehood. But it all beco- it all begins because she's heard the news. Word has spread that, that this is not just your normal group of people. This is a country whose god seems [00:14:00] to be different than the other gods we hear about, you know?

It ... That was a time in the world in which everyone, every country had gods, lowercase G- Mm-hmm ... that we would say, but this one seemed different. And so she gets word and, uh, it, it's, um ... Y- you could argue that, okay, she didn't have a lot to lose perhaps. Uh, and again, this is conjecture because we don't know a lot of the backstory of Rahab.

We really don't know any of it other than the fact that when she enters the story, we know her profession, the oldest profession, as they say. Um, but, but she's concerned, as we read, about her family. Yeah. About her people. Mm-hmm. And, and so it's not just her cutting a deal so that she can get off- Mm-hmm

scot-free. This is her saying, [00:15:00] "I've, I've heard about these stories, and clearly this is not your garden variety lowercase G god. This, this god is legit, and I'm, I'm kind of pushing all my chips to the table for my family. A- and so would you take care of ... not just spare me. Would you spare my family?" Here, um, i- it is a, a, a person, you don't know how she got into that position, but, um, let's put it this way.

It isn't now, nor has it ever been particularly a glamorous job. Yeah. So you're probably not aspiring as a young girl to be a prostitute, a sex worker. Something put her into that situation, and most likely probably a man Um, but y- she's got this situation in which her family [00:16:00] is in jeopardy, and so she's willing to say, "I'm riding with this God of whom I've heard."

Mm-hmm. And our family is gonna cast its lot with that God. And, and you, you said it required faith, and that faith would be told. The story of that faith would be told for centuries on so that she gets listed among these other obvious heroes, you know, that, that do get rattled off quickly, uh, when you start listing the, the, the, the great characters throughout scripture.

Uh, so for me, it is her willingness to, to risk, uh, on the half of those she loved the most. Yeah. Well, there, there are a few things as you share that, that come to mind for me. And, and, and the first thing is, well, I wanna talk about the little G gods because, look, [00:17:00] it's easy for us here in the 21st century to go, "Oh, okay.

Well, you know, we don't have gods and stuff," but they come- Right ... in different forms. But more about that in just a minute. Um, I see inside of everybody there is an inherent goodness. You know, we all f- we're all sinful because of the fall. But here's a woman who everything she does- Mm ... not good, yet there's a goodness within to wanna protect her family and not just look out for herself.

Yes. And that goodness gets used for the greater good. A- and I think in terms of looking at a person and seeing the personality here of Rahab, and maybe trying to learn from somebody It's the, I guess, the desire some, but more the discipline of following your good instead of following the badness that's inside.

That, uh, are you [00:18:00] getting where I'm going over here? Because I feel- Right. For sure ... I feel like all the things that aren't listed, but I try and read deep into these stories, and I try and kind of live them a little bit. A- and I'm thinking of what her house must have looked like, um, what she must have looked like.

So there's hardly running water and showers and stuff. No. And then she's got men coming and going. Yet somewhere underneath all of that- Yeah ... there, there's this goodness inside. She, she lives a very transactional life. Yeah. Uh, y- y- you provide a service, and, um, th- there,

there, there is no real connection or love there. It is, um, something you offer, something they take. You get something in return, and then we move on to the next client. And yet, in the midst of that world, she has this deep love for her family. That's right. Uh, I, I also think, uh, as I alluded to a- at the top of the show, [00:19:00] um, the danger, I think, in, in labeling- Yes

people in, in our lives, whether it's with something as, uh, harsh, uh, a- as, as prostitute. Uh, we may say, "Well, this is just the way that person is." Uh, and do people change? I- I've seen it. I know I've changed in a lot of ways, hopefully for the better. Uh, I can tell you some ways in which I've changed for the better, and that I believe the Lord has inspired me through good friends like you and others who are trying to point me, um, to, to a, a, a deeper, uh, conviction, a deeper understanding of what it means to be fully whole.

Mm-hmm. And I, I think that, by the way, is a, uh, is a critical component of our walk. We've gotta have people in our lives who, uh, are constantly [00:20:00] encouraging us. But I'll tell you this, Mark, and I know you are, uh, in this situation as well. You and I are outspoken, unapologetic, uh, professors of faith, a- and yet we, uh, certainly know our own fallibility.

We know our own, um, screw-ups, and we also know people who are not, um- overt Christians, people who would not call themselves, um, you know, proud believers. Th- they, they may not even call themselves believers at all. Mm-hmm. Um, but I know you and I have talked about this. Some of the most important lessons I've ever learned have come from people who would not even call themselves followers of Christ, or even particularly religious or spiritual.

And yet, I think the [00:21:00] Lord has shown me, uh, a, a, a better way to live, a better way to be through people who, who aren't even a part of our tribe, let's say. A- and so when I see Rahab, who isn't a man, she isn't a Jew, and she isn't of good reputation, she is showing what i- is a better way, truly having faith and believing that God has something bigger in store.

And I'm, I've become grateful in m- the 30 years that I've been running around the country covering golf, to, to know so many people who have shown me that better way. Some of them, like you, are, are openly, uh, believing i- in, in God and, and would name God, the, the Father Jesus as, [00:22:00] uh, your Lord, and others are not, and I'm grateful for both.

Well, yes. Likewise. And I will say this, and as you're saying that, all I keep hearing is the word fundamental. Mm. And, and, you know, Christians, we profess certain things. And for folks who don't believe in Jesus watching the show, I, I, I want you to investigate. That's the purpose of the show, is to illustrate to you how Jesus uses the unlikely more often than not.

Yes. Actually, most often. Uh, it... You, you, you aren't... I heard my pastor on the show say, "God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the called." Mm. And, and like you and I in this job where we speak about a game, I'm hardly qualified, but you know, I do it with great passion and I take a- uh, advantage of it.

But w- the, the... Back to the word fundamentals, and I do still wanna get to the little gods thing. Don't let me forget. Okay. Um- The fundamentals, all you're talking about all the time, the people [00:23:00] around us, um, Rahab in this instance, might not be a believer, but they're fundamentals of living or leaving a legacy.

They're fundamentals of being a leader that are kind of non-negotiable, whatever your spiritual belief system would be. And again, I look at Rahab here, and she might be up to no good, but she understood faith. Yeah. And she understood the story. She goes, "I hear of this god that seems bigger than the gods we serve, and I'm going to choose, despite not having proof-" Correct

that I'm going with this. A- and that, I marvel at that. Yeah. I, I could, could not agree more. Um, a- and I think, I think we see throughout scripture, um, whether it's a donkey, um, you know, from Barak, or whether it's a prostitute, or in the New Testament, uh, whether you see it's the publican- Yeah ... uh, praying a- and the [00:24:00] Pharisee, uh, i- is, is looking down scornfully, God, God always turns the tables.

Uh, you know, the, the kingdom of heaven that Jesus ushered in isn't, is, has been called an upside-down kingdom. You know, it, it, it is serve first, not be served. And we can learn that from a lot of people. And, and God's always saying, "Just when somebody thinks they've cornered the market, that they've figured out what it means to be one of mine, let me show you a better way.

Let me show you a different way." Just when you think it's all about closing in and, and you're not one of us... Even the apostles who followed Jesus, you know, "Should, should we, should we tell this person to stop? They were, they were doing great things in your name, but they're not one of us." And Jesus is like, "What?"

Yeah. "Why would you do that?" Uh, it, it, it's, it, it's scandalous to say [00:25:00] that we can learn from someone outside. It's sca- It's, it's not truly biblically scandalous, because we actually see the, the, the opposite in scripture. Yeah. But some in the world of Christendom would, would say, you know, "You can't learn from someone outside, uh, you know, our faith."

And I would say then we're reading a different Bible. Amen. A- absolutely, amen. It's, it's that, that's what was the perfect segue, my host, um, to... It feels weird hosting when you are on the other side of it. Oh, you're, you're, you- Um- You shouldn't feel weird. Okay. The... Uh, I wanted to say about serving, and you talked about like Rahab, for argument's sakes, had the servant leading hearts, where most folks are serving something else and not the people around them.

And she did what she did not just to protect herself, but to protect her family. So she sacrificed the risk of self for people that she deemed important. That to [00:26:00] me is the ultimate servant leadership, and it's a precursor to what Jesus eventually did on the cross. But, but here in the 21st century, Grant, we are serv- I mean, I'll be honest here.

If you had to talk about little G god idols in one's life, for the longest time when I was coaching and teaching full-time, I idolized live scoring. Hmm. My mood, I lived and died by a number on a computer screen about how one of my players or my team was playing. Yeah. Eventually to a place where I'm like, "This is not beneficial.

This is bad for my health, and moreover, this is incorrect." And so when you reference the little G gods- Hmm Along those lines, say something that pops into your head, because we all are serving these other gods that we're putting in front of- Yeah ... the God that Rab was faithful enough to say, "No, that guy who I heard [00:27:00] split the sea for people to walk through."

Um, so, so Sha, I'm interested in, in, in what comes from within with you. Yeah. Uh, we have a way of, uh, as I said at the beginning of the show, I think we have a way of, of taking what is good and making it bad. Yeah. Um, I think we as human beings ha- have a unique capability of turning anything into an idol.

Yes. It... We can turn anything into a little G god. Uh, we, we can take food. Food is wonderful. Taste and see that the Lord is good. Food isn't, I don't think, just meant to sustain. I do believe it is meant to, um, to inspire. It- it's, it's meant to, to lift our spirits. It, it, it is beyond just sustenance. It's, it's, I think, first and foremost that.

But food can be this, uh, in- incredible [00:28:00] connector for people, and it, and it so often is. But what, what do we do as people? We, we overeat. We eat the wrong kinds, the wrong amounts, the, the, at the wrong times. We, we abuse this good thing that we've been given. You and I enjoy a good glass of wine. What happens when people, um, you know, are not at their best?

We take this thing that can enrich us, that can, in some cases, uh, have healing effects- Mm-hmm ... in the proper doses, and we just use it for our own devices and vices, and, and it winds up getting twisted into something that, you know, is all-consuming rather than something to just be enjoyed and consumed in, in a, in a smaller dose.

So I, I, I think that's part of the [00:29:00] story, uh, of, of humanity and the divine, that we take what's good and- And in somehow, inescapably, we, we, we twist it into something just for ourselves, almost because we just maybe don't quite trust that God's gonna have enough for us. That, that's the story of manna, when, you know, God was providing the, the Israelites with enough.

And when Jesus... I, I don't think it's an, a mistake. I don't, I mean, I don't think it's an accident or coincidence that Jesus, in, when he's giving the Lord's Prayer, says, "This is how you should pray." Yeah. Right after saying, "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our manna."

Yeah. Daily. Why? Because if we get too much, we get spoiled. When they tried to hoard up the manna, except on the Sabbath, it would spoil. It's God trying to condition [00:30:00] us to say, "Would you trust me? Would you just trust that, that what you have for today is enough?" Jesus later, at the Sermon on the Mount, after he gives that, that Lord's Prayer, says, Matthew 6, "Deal with tomorrow tomorrow.

Today has enough issues of its own. Let today be today." We're always grasping for more. Um, that's, that's what comes to mind. Brilliant. Um, sort of along those lines, I wanna get into some leadership and legacy lessons that I sort of, after reading this and doing some research. And that's the one thing I love about doing this show because- Mm-hmm

and I say this every time, that if this was a golf show, I could get on with some reference, but not very much, and I'll just speak from within because I'm immersed in golf, right? A- and this show's making me read the Bible differently. You know, to try and extrapolate real lessons from what I'm reading, as opposed to just reading it [00:31:00] like, you know, kinda just glossing over the story.

Yeah. Sorta half reading it. Um, and looking at Rahab, because all the folks within the city of Jericho, 'cause Jericho is very close to the border, all the folks had heard these stories, and a lot of them were fearful and they were running around frantic inside of the walls of Jericho. Whereas Rahab looks at this and goes, "Okay, this is an opportunity.

Instead of being freaked out, I'm gonna be like, uh, whatever chance presents itself, I'm gonna take that chance." So she was actually, in a strange sort of way, in my opinion, I'd love you to agree or disagree, was quite discerning in the whole situation. And she didn't, she, she wasn't living in the status quo like everyone else.

She's like, "Hold on. Uh, those guys are sitting on the border, we hear. They've got this mighty God behind them, or in front of them, or all over, yeah." And instead of worrying about the future, "I'm going to invest in the future." Mm. [00:32:00] Um. Yeah. Say you there. Sure. O- one thing we, we see repeated in scripture is that, um The, the, the best lessons we learn are from the, quote-unquote, "least of these."

People brought children to Jesus, and the apostles tried to shoo them away. Uh, the other disciples would say, "Ah, he, he, he's, he's, he's, he don't wanna deal with kids. Let, let... He's got other bigger fish to fry." Mm-hmm. And literally a kid brought him fish- ... uh, that they fried. Yeah, you were going. Uh, and, and Jesus said, "No, no, no, no, let them come to me.

And if you, if you can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven like a child, you can't enter. You just can't." Uh, it, it, it's the least of these who, who teach those in positions of power. Uh, you know, it, it's easier to go through, for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, you know, than it is for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Uh, what does that really mean? It, it... Again, [00:33:00] you, it's critical to go back. I, I think we're still this way to a degree. Um, but especially in that culture, if you had material wealth, that meant that God had blessed you, in their minds. Yes. A, a poor person, uh, they probably were there because of, because God was punishing them.

Mm-hmm. It, it was a, a much more, um, linear way of looking at it or, or, uh, a binary way of looking at it. And here we, we see again this upside-down kingdom, God saying, "Let me show you a, a different way from someone that you don't even revere." And so, um, w- what does Rahab, Rahab really have? Maybe not a lot.

Mm-hmm. Maybe if you were someone who had a lot, you're less likely to risk it. [00:34:00] Sure. Um, a- and therefore, back to Jesus' words, you know, centuries later, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. When you've got a lot, you, you don't wanna risk it.

A- and so what do we learn from her, someone who maybe doesn't have the greatest life? Mm-hmm. And yet she's willing to say, "I'm going all in with, with this because, you know, I, I, I don't... There's not a whole lot for me to lose here. Th- this life that I have isn't great." And what happens, as you noted, what, what happens after this, this story?

She is protected. She does meet this man, Salmon. They have this child, Boaz, and Boaz becomes this powerful leader, you know? And I, I, I think back to the whole... Th- this is all in, in, [00:35:00] in, uh, th- that same idea of manna. It, it, like- What do we need for today? And God's trying to, I think, constantly get us back to what do we need in this moment?

We are not n- i- planning is good. I, I, uh, there's... I don't think that's the message that you shouldn't plan ahead. But I think if you can't live in the moment, if you, i- if you can't, um, enjoy daily bread, if you can't trust that there will be enough for us down the road, it's going to make your life more anxious, it's gonna make your life more difficult, and, um, it will be harder, I think, to have faith if you don't trust.

She trusted, she had faith, she was rewarded. You tickled my sensibilities with that, and I'm gonna just share what's inside. Um-

I, it sort of gets down, it comes [00:36:00] down, I think at, at the root level to reliance. A- and you talk about, you know, peop- she didn't have much to lose. And I'm looking now on the other side of the equation. I'm like, well, what if, what, what if the rich person? And, and I feel like the rich person, and getting back to idols, 'cause I'm not

Anyone listening to this, if you're well-to-do, well, fantastic. But it's if you start to rely on the riches and that stuff instead of relying on the real source for all those things, that's when things get waylaid. And then it's like, you know, you speak of Jesus, and he said, "The l- for the love of money is the root of all evil."

Not money. A- and so I, I wanna say whether you're rich or poor, this faith that Rahab had is kind of where the gold is. And that's the call to arms, right? They, they've, they've got this list of the heroes of the faith, and faith means relying on something that you cannot see And that's this entire [00:37:00] con- th- this entire conundrum about, you know, living life in the physical, but having this faith and this trust in something greater.

That- Yeah. I mean- And this, this is where I am inside of me right now. Yeah. Well, w- well, just look, look at the, the hall of, of heroes that, that are listed in Hebrews. Abraham, enormously wealthy materially. Yeah. Rahab, prostitute. So you have literally, um, both ends of the spectrum. Respected, materially wealthy.

Someone not respected with very little. Both, um, made equal- Mm-hmm ... i- in, in, in God's economy because they had the same thing. Even though they were from different, different ends of the spectrum, both had faith. Yeah. Here's some of the heroes listed, then we'll move along. Ahab... Oh, Abel, pardon me, because he offered a better sacrifice than Cain, one of the first people.

Yeah. A- a- and [00:38:00] there, uh, so what, what did Abel do? Uh- He gave more. He, he gave the best. Yeah. A- and, and Cain didn't give nothing, but Cain just didn't give the beth, uh, best. And Abel believed that, "If I give my best, I'm still gonna have everything I need. I'm gonna have my daily bread." Yes. Mm-hmm. And there was Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab.

Other heroes include Gideon, Barak, you mentioned Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, a lot of the pro- prophets. Um, uh, second lesson we can sort of extrapolate. I sound like a pastor now 'cause I've got my list of things to go through. Yeah. Um, and I'm anything but. Courage over comfort. She could have continued doing what she was doing, yet she took a risk for something.

And great leaders, they make, to me, they [00:39:00] ma- make cal- they take calculated risks. I don't think it's crazy. But her risk was calculated because she was operating under the premise of faith and the belief in something greater. And all the great leaders I've encountered and read about and been around, they have this, this preparedness to go beyond their comfort zone.

I think that's a lesson in life. It's like a growth mentality. You agree? Well, the thing that jumps out, uh, uh, uh, uh, about what you said to me is she- She certainly could have tried to parlay her, her moment of fortune, uh, you know, into something good within her own community. Mm-hmm. She, she could have said to the leaders of Jericho- [00:40:00] Ah

"If I find, you know- Mm-hmm ... if I find any of these people- Uh-huh ... will you cut me a deal? Will you take care of my family? Will you make sure we're okay?" And I thought about your rights. And instead she says, um, "No, I, I've, I've seen the way this world works, and it's not great. I, I, I'd, I'd rather ride with this new world, with a God that can, um, do miracles.

If God can split the Red Sea, then could God redeem my life? Uh, th- that would be w- way easier than, than parting the Red Sea. Um, I, I, I've seen the way this world works. It's not great. And yeah, I, I could settle for trying to, to parlay this moment into something maybe marginally better for what I have in this world."

Temporary, yeah. Mm-hmm. In- yeah. Instead she [00:41:00] says, "No, I, I've, I, I, I, I need a miracle, um, because the world I've got right now is not great and, and let me, let me see if there's a miracle for me." Incredible. Yeah, I'd never thought about that, Grant. That, that is- I hadn't either. This is why it's good that we have these conversations.

Yeah. Spiritual wisdom. For the folks who don't know, every day when Grant and I drive from our house in Augusta, Georgia to, um, the broadcast facility, um, we have these kinds of conversations. We don't know where they'll start, but we kind of- No ... end. It, it's such an enriched time. And, and what you say there's so right because strangely you're reading my mind, which you normally do.

Yeah, I don't know about that. She chose God over man was the next thing, which- Mm-hmm ... as far as leadership and legacy goes I feel like is the ultimate. If you wanna set your family, your business, your friends, your team, you, you insert whatever you want to this le- you know, in your leadership, hopefully servant leadership role.

Going with God is a [00:42:00] way better, um, option than going over man. And I do wanna say this real fast, and I want your, y- you to put a bow on this top, this, this element. Nowadays in the environment in which we currently find ourselves, we are placing so much trust in government as opposed to going to the ultimate source, and that's a slippery slope in my opinion.

Yeah. We, we, um, we live in, in, in very, uh, strange times and, uh, I, I, I think we've never known more than, than we know now. Um, uh, I, I still am clinging to the belief that people aren't worse than they used to be. I think we just hear more of them saying [00:43:00] terrible things than we used to hear because we have platforms that allow for that.

Um, a- and, you know, even, e- even 20, 30, let's say 50 years ago in America, you wouldn't know something if you lived in Utah that was happening in Florida. You might s- unless it rose to the level of being on the nightly news, you, you just, you didn't know what was going on. Now we know what's happening in countries we've never heard of.

It's true. Uh-huh. Uh, you know, we're watching Cape Verde in the, in the, in the World Cup. Everyone's saying, "Wait. Cape Verde. Green Cape. What is that? Is that, you know, is this, is this where we're going for dinner, or is this a, a, a country competing in, in the World Cup?" Um, it... you're... We just know more a- about the world than we've ever known, and the things we learn often aren't good.

Uh, and I, I do think that the, the, the thing we're always being called to do is [00:44:00] to, um Yes, while things are happening on, on higher levels, I think we're always called to act locally, and not just, not just in, you know, our, our cities. Although that's, I think, a great thing. My wife is the best citizen I've ever known.

She's constantly, uh, you know, staying in touch with what's happening in the city and, and, and she was just part of an amazing effort to honor, uh, a, a Black man who had been lynched in Abilene, Texas 100 years ago, and she helped generate, uh, a, a, an historical marker that was put on the site of, of, of that terrible act 100 years ago.

And it's a moment now for the city of, of Abilene to say, "This man is, is finally being named and honored and recognized as a victim of, of racial violence." And it reminds us now of, of, of, of where we've come and, yes, where we still need [00:45:00] to go. But, but little moments like that that she seizes upon, I think those are great.

But even on a, on a, on a more granular level than that, Mark, I think, um, we all have worlds in which we operate, and, um, I love the way you elevate those with whom you work. There is a, a, a salary structure, there is a production memo that we get every week when we work that would tend to try to label people, and I think you and I as, a- as pe- as, as descendants of Rahab , we, we're always saying, "No, no, no, no.

There is no hierarchy among hum- human beings. We are all made, I... We believe in the image of God. Everyone has value. Everyone has good in them. Every single one of us opts for the, the, the, the [00:46:00] wrong, you know, impulse from time to time, and even the worst of us, you know, uh, rises to the occasion, you know? And, and we can learn from all of us being in this, uh, in, in this same situation.

We're all fallen, you know, a- and yet we all have goodness in us." And, and that's what we try to hopefully, uh, encourage in others, inspire in others, and then also in the s- in the, the process of all of that, we're learning by watching how others handle situations. You're preaching, Reverend Boone. And for the record, folks, at the, uh, end of our car journey when we pull into the parking area- I usually get out of the car after being with Grant for, like, 20 minutes or so before we go and start to get into work mode, going, "Yes, you know, he's right."

And you were so right with what you say over there. Yeah. I don't know about that, but, but y- it, it is... That, that's, th- that is what... I said this earlier. [00:47:00] W- we, we have to have people in our lives, you know, who are constantly, um, challenging us, encouraging us. Uh, not just saying what we like to hear, but in, at, at times saying what, "Hmm, I, I, I didn't wanna hear that," not because it was wrong, but because it convicted me.

Gotta have people. We've gotta surround ourselves with people like that. Um, I, I don't think we ever segregate from anyone, but we need to make sure we are in deep community. I've got a, you know, with, with people who are constantly calling us to, to, to rethink, you know, what... A- as, as trite as the bracelets, as the bracelets used to make it seem, what would Jesus do?

I, I do think that's a great question to ask. W- w- what, what is God calling us? What is the gospel, not organized religion, which butchers, you know, what Jesus' message was, [00:48:00] but what does the gospel have to say about fill in the blank? And then get with people who are, uh, uh, this is what my life has been, you know, my whole, you know, my whole adult life, my whole faith journey, getting around people in close community, people with whom you can share your life.

Yeah. A- and, and ask each other that question. What does the gospel have to say in this moment, in our time? I, I meet with a guy, uh, his name is Bob Strader. He was a, a, a football coach at Abilene Christian, then he became the dean of men, then became the head football coach again, then ran the camps. Uh, he's older than I am.

He was a mentor when I was in school. Now he is one of my closest friends, and whenever I'm back here in Abilene, where I live out in West Texas, I'm with him every time that, that we can to have, uh, you know, some type of beverage to enjoy and, [00:49:00] and, and share what's happening in your life, what's happening in mine.

And there is no filter. It is complete emptying of where we are. Uh, I have that with my spouse. I'm blessed to have that as well. B- but having those friends in addition, uh- I, I would say it's not only invaluable, I think it's, it's almost mandatory- Yes ... to, to, uh, uh, to, to, to, to, to that life of faith. Hmm.

Yeah, well, the ultimate leader is the servant leader, and the servant leader isn't dictatorial. No. The servant seeks counsel, wise counsel. That was very wise counsel there. Um, you've kinda touched on my next point, which is Rahab as a leader advocated for her family. Mm. Her team, her coworker. You can call it whatever you want again, but she, she was thinking of others and not just herself.

And then I do wanna say this because you're a parent, I'm a parent. I feel like our ultimate, you know, leadership life legacy move [00:50:00] is to bring up children with a good m- m- moral directional compass, um, good ethical compass, uh, just good citizens, to use your word. And here's Rahab, who married Salmon. We know her past.

We knew how she came to redemption, changed the course of her life through an active decision. And then she raised Boaz, and I'm gonna write you what I read. Boaz was known for his high character- Mm ... his generosity, and his nature toward the less fortunate. Now, he had a mom- Mm-hmm ... Rahab. Yes ... taught him those things.

Yes. That is a legacy move, bar none. So help us as people and parents too, please. Yeah. Um, I love the fact that she marries a guy named Salmon. Salmon. Yeah, exactly. She... A- and, and she, she was swimming upstream [00:51:00] herself against the, against the tide. Oh, yeah. A, a, a, a, a Gentile prostitute is not gonna make it- Uh-huh

i- i- into the lineage of the Messiah, but she does by swimming upstream, culminating in marrying a guy named Salmon. Salmon, we'll call him. Um, I- Legend ... but, but I, I, I think, Mark, um, you know, we- we've just had Father's Day. I don't know when this will drop or when anyone will see this. It could, it could be any time.

But, uh, my wife, uh, Amy, s- sent a message... A- and I love how she does this. She, um, she and I are... There is no leader in our family. We are co-leaders. We co-parent. We are fully equal, fully, um, y- you know, i- in, in lockstep trying our best with all of our stumbles to, to continue to lead our family now that our kids are grown.

Now we're grandparents. I'm [00:52:00] a granddad, uh, twice over with a third on the way. And, you know, um, she does this great thing that I think exhibits her leadership. Uh, a few months ago she began sending our family thread, which includes our three kids plus our daughter-in-law, Helena, and, uh, a- and, and sending to us a video message on a Sunday.

Amy takes Sabbath very seriously, and I love that. Uh, the kind of the modern-day version for Christians would be Sunday. And, and she really... She doesn't, she, she doesn't go to, to, you know, any functions on Sunday. She just doesn't. It, it's, it's her day of rest. Yeah. She sends this video message out each, each Sunday to our family saying, "Hey, I'm thinking about this.

I'd love to hear your thoughts." It's just a great way of staying connected. So yesterday was Father's Day here in the US, and, um, she said, "I'd love to know your thoughts [00:53:00] about your favorite quality of your dad." And she said, "I'll give you my favorite about my dad." Her dad's name is Jim Nichols, and he... She talked about how pastoral he is, and he is this in- he is the kindest, most gentle, pastoral elder.

He, he was a biology professor for 40 years, uh, he, 50 years. He, he, you know, has been a hospice chaplain. He's just, he's this incredible, uh, servant and, and, and pastoral person. Well, then the kids began answering, and Helena talked about her own father, uh, who's an incredible guy, John. And our kids chimed in, and my boys both said that, "I, I love that Dad always treated everyone the same," whether it was, you know, someone he worked with who might have been a, a famous, popular, wealthy person, or it was, uh, this [00:54:00] longtime family friend of ours who was autistic and had nothing and had no family.

And, and then my second son, Nick, who's my big golf fan, uh, of the three of our kids, chimed in and said, "Yeah, Dad always treated the kid in right field," because I used to coach l- my son in s- Little League. Yeah. "He would treat the kid in right field who didn't even know what right field was like he was the best player on the team."

Yeah. And I thought, "Okay, for all the ways I've screwed up as a parent, uh, and all the things I wish I could have a mulligan, you know, for doing, uh, th- my kids both think... You know, or my boys both gave examples of ways in which their dad, um, treated everyone with the same degree of respect and love." And I thought, "Oh, that is, that is a grace that, that, [00:55:00] um, they, that, that when they think of me, they can think of something that, uh, to me, is about as, a- as important and s- valuable as there is."

So I, I had... That was a, a sweet grace and serendipity on Father's Day for us. It is emblematic of your nature, and it is, to me, um, a direct color- correlation to your Father in heaven. Mm. Who's not a respecter of titles. In fact- No ... every one of these heroes we've discussed, they've been just regular nobodies who've turned into somebody.

And the somebody's not- Exactly right ... self. The somebody is for a greater power than them, than a greater calling. Um, I'll say this, folks. I get to work with Grant. It used to be more. Now it's just one week a year. Um, whether you are an, someone who carries a microphone on the golf course in a PGA Tour event to [00:56:00] probably the highest of our totem pole at CBS, which would be the chairman Or Jim Nantz, Grant will teach to treat them all exactly the same.

And, and that to me is the ultimate in servant leadership. And so I, I, I'm, I'm thrilled to know you. I'm honored that you would come on the show. Um, I know folks are probably interested in finding you more. Uh, if so, is there social media or a place where they can find more of what you do, please? Yeah, I, I'm, uh, uh, I'm fortunate to have a fairly short name, which is, which for, for social media helps.

So on Twitter I'm @grantboone, and same thing on Instagram. Uh, now I, I, I had, Mark, and I'm on Facebook as well and, and I'm pretty generous with, with, uh, friend requests. So- All right ... I'll tell you, I had a dad who passed away in January of 2023, um, who was a social worker his whole life. You know, s- [00:57:00] some, some will know my uncle Pat Boone, who was a legendary entertainer back in, in the- Where Grant gets his wonderful pipes, the voice that he gets from you.

Yeah, I, I did come by that honestly. There, there, that was not, that was not me. That was, that was a gift. That was given, and I'm grateful for it. Um, Pat just turned 92 and had a chance to have birthday week dinner with him out in Los Angeles when I was covering the US Women's Open for Golf Channel. Uh, and, and he and my dad, brothers, se- born one year apart to the day, which is kind of classic.

If you knew my grandmother, you'd know that was, that, that was how she rolled. She, she did things on her terms. Right. Um, and, and, uh, my dad was a singer back in the '50s and '60s and, and had a few Top 40 hits in the United States and was on the Ed Sullivan Show and was, you know, on his way. Three years in New York City [00:58:00] performing, uh, in, in his mid-20s, and was on his way if he would've wanted that.

And he, he, it just was not what he wanted. It was what Pat wanted. Pat became this legendary entertainer. For my dad, uh, he didn't find his calling, uh, on stage. His calling became social work, and he spent his life finding good homes for kids who needed them. And I watched my dad do that. And there is a great, uh, quote from the Italian author and philosopher named Umberto Eco.

He, um, he wrote a book called The Name of the Rose, which became a bestseller and became an amazing movie as well. And he said, "I think we tend to become what our fathers teach us in the little moments when they're not trying to teach us anything." And I thought, "Oh, that gives me goosebumps." I [00:59:00] learned the value of a human being from my dad, not because he said, "Here's what a human being is worth."

He showed it to me by the way he helped kids find a home. That was never a verbal lesson he taught me. So to Echo's point, to echo Echo, he, he's, he says we become what our fathers teach us in the little moments when they aren't trying to teach us anything. I learned that from my dad, and m- I, my prayer is that my kids, uh, look past the things that I did wrong, and they see the little moments when I wasn't even trying to teach them, and they say, "Ah, that I'm gonna hang on to."

God bless you, Grant. What I'm hearing over there, wonder- what a wonderful story. Thanks for sharing that. So candid. Yeah. Um, I'm hearing here, just like we had talked about with Rahab, um, God looks past your [01:00:00] past. In fact, I'd written this down. Your past is not a barrier to you achieving your purpose. No.

Amen. Yeah. Your dad would be very proud, and I'm honored to now know your dad. You'd never shared this story. Yeah. He is in my hall of fame. Um, anyhow, thank you so much for joining us. Um, to all of you who watch this and listen to this, appreciate you very much. Share it with your friends. Remember, the purpose behind this show is just to introduce you to these heroes of our faith.

And, and I implore you to go and read the stories. If you like action movies, reading the Bible is some of the most entertaining reads you can. Go and find the story of David, or find the story of Joshua, or this very short story of Rahab. Don't just read it. Go and live it a little bit. It'll, it'll, it'll unlock so many lessons to you.

And as Grant mentioned- With the good parts. With ... Yeah, r- right, yeah. The, the, the, the better parts. Exactly. Right. And the cool thing about this Bible, [01:01:00] if you don't read it, if you read it and you let it read you, you can read the same story different days in a row and you'd get a different message every single time.

And that's the one thing I'm getting with doing this show, and it's the one thing I, I get when I'm around Grant all the time. So Grant, bless you. To the rest of you, I s- I send blessings over your life. Uh, thanks for downloading this one. Follow us on socials, and remember, go and be a legend