Faith, Grit, and Storytelling: Bob Welch Reveals the Heart Behind Resolve

Journalist and author Bob Welch joins Risk & Resolve to unpack the making of Resolve, the true story of Lt. Clay Connor’s impossible WWII survival in the Philippines—and what it teaches us about courage, leadership, loyalty, and truth in storytelling. We also dig into the state of journalism, faith, and the duty to honor unsung heroes.  

Main talking points
        •        Why Welch writes people, not “war,” and how Resolve came to be
        •        Clay Connor’s unlikely path from untested officer to respected jungle leader
        •        The pivotal alliance with the Aeta (Pygmy) community and what courage looks like in practice
        •        How to craft narrative: foreshadowing, “breadcrumbs,” keeping secrets, earning the ending
        •        The collapse of local newspapers, objectivity, and standards in modern media
        •        Integrating faith, integrity, and service into life and work
        •        Handling a complicated legacy: telling the whole truth about a hero’s life
        •        The near-miss film deal and why this story still begs for the big screen
        •        Risk taken: Welch’s 2,653-mile Pacific Crest Trail and how it reshaped his confidence
        •        What’s next for Welch: finishing a novel and continuing to mentor writers

Transcript

Meet Bob Welch And His Path

SPEAKER_01 0:01

You're listening to Risk and Resolve. And now for your hosts, Ben Connor and Ted Hufford.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome back to another episode of the Risk and Resolve Pod. I'm your co-host Ben Connor along with Todd Hufford. And today's special guest is Bob Welch. Bob uh is a journalist, an author uh who uh is really a storyteller. He's an authority on narrative journalism, historic memoirs, especially World War II, and exploring themes like resilience, faith, and self-discovery. Um Bob is key in even part of the namesake of this podcast of Resolve. Bob was the author of the book Resolve, written about my grandfather's uh war story. Uh and in fact, that's where we met Bob back in 2012. And, you know, not to bury the lead, but there was no one better to tell the story of Clay Connor than Bob Welch. So, Bob, thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Thank you, Ben. Thanks, Todd. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

And uh we'll we'll we'll talk about Resolve and Clay Connor in a little bit. And this is this is going to be uh aired following the release of a seven-part series of Clay Connor telling his war story through tapes. And and Bob, you will be you are the capstone of that. But before we dig into the Clay Connor story, um tell us a little bit just about yourself, where you're located, okay, um, how you got into journalism and that passion of yours.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Right.

unknown 1:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Let us know what you what you've been up to.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

All right. I live in Eugene, Oregon, out here on the left, left coast. Uh grew up an hour north of here in Corvallis. Um, I had a two-to-true action electric football set that I used to play as a kid, and and when it broke, I would create games in my mind, use my imagination, and then sit down and write a story about that game. I always wanted to be a reporter, and uh I went to the rival school, University of Oregon, to get a journalism degree in 1976. And I spent 40 years in newspaper journalism and then branched out and began writing books in the early 1990s. I've done a couple of dozen books. I have my own writer's workshop. I worked for the uh I taught at the University of Oregon School of Journalism and Communication for 20 years. So I'm a storyteller and uh I've made great average sums of money doing that. And uh, but it's been a fascinating career. I'm still involved in it. I write a uh weekly Substack column called Heart, Humor, and Hope right now. And uh getting to uh tell your grandfather's uh story was among the highlights.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

I appreciate that. Um you you you had some other stories you told around World War II, and obviously that's uh a specialty of yours. How did how did that become how did it become that? How did it be it become a specialty?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

You know, I I wrote a column. A guy came to me and told me about a World War II nurse who had died uh in Europe, and uh I wrote a column for the register guard here in Eugene, and a woman called me the next morning and said, Oh, you you wrote about my friend Frances Slanger. You know, she was the first nurse to die after the landings at Normandy. I said, wait a minute, you knew this woman? She said, I uh yeah, I served with her in France. And uh Frances

Finding World War II Human Stories

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Slanger, you know, was born in Poland, grew up in Boston, and died in Belgium. She didn't get very close to Eugene, Oregon. But here I had this connection 10 minutes from my house. Not only had this nurse served with Frances Slanger in in uh Europe, but her husband was a doctor in the same unit. He was there the night she died. So uh American Nightingale was my first World War II book, and that actually set me up to uh to get the resolve uh job, I think, because my my agent knew that I'd done some World War II stuff. And uh then I wrote a book called Healing Wounds recently about a Vietnam combat nurse, which actually was the sort of the foundational uh book for uh Kristen Hanna, who wrote a book called The Women about a Vietnam nurse, which became the best-selling book in the world last year. So, anyway, uh that's how I got into the whole World War II thing. I'm not so interested in war, I'm interested in people. Um, I'm interested in people with integrity and and and honor. And uh again, your grandfather certainly fit that mold.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Yeah, how when you look back on um just the people you wrote about, what are some like lessons learned or highlights from just different people aside from my grandfather? We'll talk about him later. What are some other things that really stand out to you over your career as an author?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, I guess I'd I'd say people uh just a commitment to something bigger than themselves. Uh, Francis Langer uh was this, you know, showed up at Ellis Ellis Island in 1921 as a seven-year-old uh little girl, and and at the she was uh she had an eye infection. So at that moment, she was um separated from her mom and sister. She didn't really have a country, she left Poland and hadn't been allowed into the U.S. And she was placed in a cage, which what is what happened while you awaited an opinion from a doctor whether you should allow this person to come into your country. And so at that moment, I don't think anyone would have said, Oh, Frances Slanger is gonna grow up and and inspire thousands of people, but in fact, she did. Um, and and I think it was because she had a heart for other people, and uh she wrote a beautiful letter honoring the GIs, and it absolutely uh melted their hearts because they had no sense of purpose. This was October 44. They landed on June um 6th, and they they lost their sense of purpose and and meaning and and context. And this this letter really uh inspired them. And then when she they learned that a week later that she died, it broke their hearts and they they insisted something be done to honor her, and they named the first hospital ship uh in the army in her honor. So, I mean, Francis Langer was a giving person. Um, Diane Carlson Evans, uh, in Healing Wounds, a Vietnam combat nurse. Same thing, you know, farm girl from uh Wisconsin and Minnesota, and just grew up, but just had this sense of service, like I need to enlist. Now, at the time, of course, many people my age were being drafted. I wasn't among them, but many were being drafted to the war. But she just volunteered. She said, I need to be there, I want to be there, I want to serve my country, and and that's what she did. So I guess, I guess if there's a connection, it's people who see beyond themselves and who see service to their country and and to their fellow Americans as as important.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Bob, those the the way you tell those stories just reverberates the idea that you love people and you love their stories. Um, the idea of making a career out of writing and spending, what'd you say, 40 years working for the Register Guard or at least some kind of print publication before you got into books? Books was kind of a little bit later in your career. Right. You know, how old were you when it kind of became a realization that uh this this could be a career I could I could be employed by and I could write for a living?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Well, I was seven when that that idea came up. I mean, I literally my fifth grade career day, you know, you could go hang out with a librarian or the school, a school teacher if you wanted to be a teacher.

Lessons From Lives Of Service

SPEAKER_00 7:48

And they said, My teacher said, What do you want to do? I said, I want to interview Oregon State's basketball coach. I want to be a sports writer. And so literally, you know, seven, I think I I wrote my first story, and that would have been like 11 years old in fifth grade. I I went and interviewed OSU's basketball coach and I walked out of Gill Coliseum and thought, you know, I'm gonna be a reporter. I mean, I so I always wanted to write. I love to tell stories, but but as the decades went on, my my horizons broadened. At first, it was just sports, sports, sports. And then uh my wife and I began having kids, and I realized, you know, if I work sports, I'm gonna be working every night, every weekend the rest of my life. I'm not gonna see my kids anymore. That's right. So I branched into feature writing. And then in the 90s, so I would have been like about 40, that's when um Harvest House Public uh Christian Publishing House here in Eugene offered me an opportunity to write a book, and that's when I began the book writing trend in about 1993, was my first book called More to Life Uh Than Having It All, which was a book about uh materialism and the importance of relationships with God and others as opposed to money and things, and uh didn't sell very well. In fact, after the first year, the publisher basically said they were remaindering the book and at the and and but I could buy the remaining 5,000 for just 75 cents each. And I said, Well, what if I don't buy them? What happens to those books? And he said, Well, we have them recycled. And I said, What into what? Like paper towels and Kleenexes, and I said, No, no, no. And he said, Yeah, toilet paper. I said, My book could be turned into toilet paper, and yeah, and I said, You know, when I wrote that book, I remember thinking, I want to write a book that touch touches people's lives in a special place, not the place I had in mind, but at any rate, a lot of ups and downs as an author over the years, but I I wouldn't have traded the the profession for anything.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah, I've got a great appreciation for those with innate talent. Uh, earlier this year we were able to interview Brett Varville, and he's got a great talent for um movie making and go to any concert in the music musicianship, great talent. Um, I think about writing, and it sometimes doesn't get the same uh the same weight uh that people think about as other outward talents, whether it's singing or musicianship. Right. But let me tell you, there's just as much God-given talent that's bestowed at birth, as well as work and effort it takes to hone that craft. Right. Um, you know, you realize pretty early you had an interest. Um did you have any reason to think you had any ability when back when you were pretty young?

SPEAKER_00 10:25

I I do, I think I was, I think the the best thing I was bestowed with by my parents was just an imagination, interested in, you know, somebody would walk by, she'd she'd want to engage them. So I think I learned to be I the to appreciate other people through her. And my father was a fly fisherman, loved to drive up into the high cascades and hike into his lakes and fish. So he he had a sense of adventure. And I think between curiosity and adventure, um, you develop an interest in the world and you just you are always asking questions. Why, why, why? And and uh it's it's served me well my whole year because when when you sit down with a source, um, you know that um, you know, Frances Slanger wrote this beautiful letter and then she died, but then you have to answer all these whys. Who was Francis Slinger? Why, when she came to America and dirt poor, why wasn't why was she somebody who thought that she uh she she she had the world there's the haves and the have nots, and I don't know how I was so blessed to be one of the haves. I mean, they never owned a house, they never owned a uh a car. Uh in our perspective, in my perspective, I wouldn't think that Francis Langer was a have, but she saw herself as one. So I think that that just developing that, always always looking at the world and and wondering about things, and then trying to say, could I be the person that answers those questions? And that that's what really storytelling is all about, is you're answering, you're you're you're answering questions and and taking these lives and holding a spotlight. I love to hold a spotlight on people who don't want the spotlight who but who deserve it. Um, and Francis Langer, your father, Diane Carlson Evans. Uh, these are all people who deserve that spotlight, whose stories need to be told.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Do you find that during the writing process you're more gifted in what you were kind of explaining that that digging, the shining of the light on a person? Or do you find your gifting is more in the words? Once you have the research and the knowledge, you're more gifted and those words come kind of out of your mind through the pen, through the keyboard more easily. Where's your strength? Where and and where do you stumble in the writing process?

SPEAKER_00 12:38

I think you I think you need both. I think you need uh, again, that innate interest in the person. And then you

Crafting Story: Curiosity To Structure

SPEAKER_00 12:44

have to have obviously some sort of skill and able to tell that. I was blessed in the 90s to um um be under the tutelage of a of a guy named John Franklin who wrote a book called Writing for Story. He was a Pulitzer Prize-winning author from the uh writer for the Baltimore Sun, and he came out here to work at the Uvo School of Journalism. And he kind of re-taught me how to tell a story in journalism and newspaper. You know, you talk about the inverted pyramid where you you tell the most important thing first, and then the last important thing, and then at the bottom of the pyramid, the least important thing. That is in the old days, because if they wanted to cut your story, at the bottom, they could cut it and the the least important thing would get cut. Oh, interesting. But Franklin told me about keeping secrets. Franklin taught me about foreshadowing, about about surprise. You know, Clay Connor uh, you know, is one of seven people who are going to avoid the Batan death march and see if they can survive in the jungle of Luzon by themselves. Can he do it? And so, you know, in newspaper journalism, the headline would be, you know, Connor survives, you know, survives three years in the Philippines or something. But but in storytelling, I'm not gonna tell you that. I want I'm gonna put the breadcrumbs on the trail. I want you to come along for the journey and get to know Clay Connor and and find out what happens to him. And it's it's rarely a straight, easy uh trek from from here to there. And in your grandfather's story, it certainly was not all over the place. And and with Francis Slanger and Diane Carlson ever, most stories are are like hiking the Pacific Rest Trail, which I've done, you're just all over the place, up and down, left and right, you get lost, and and finally there's this conclusion and this inspiration. I'm sorry, I'm not sure that I even answered your question, Todd, but you know, it was it was funny.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

You told a great story. Good job. It was great. How has how has journalism changed over time? Obviously, we're very much in the digital age now. What what is what does that journey look like uh as technology's changed, or is it kind of the same?

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Oh no, no, it it it's it it it blows my mind as I think about I'm now writing for a digital newspaper, just a one column uh or two columns a month for a new digital newspaper in Eugene. Our our newspaper, the Register Guard, which is one of the best mid-sized dailies in the country, basically died because it was bought out by a chain and they had no interest in maintaining it as a journalistic uh institute. They wanted to just make money off it. So this is what's happening so much in the last 20 years in America with the the death of so many newspapers. And um, so you know, the changes of technologically that you know I started out literally in 1976 typing in a typewriter at the first newspaper and then went to um computers, and then we got into the social media age. Uh, you know, now I you know I report to a boss who's um half my age, um and the technology is totally different. I think what we've lost is a standard, is a sense of of honesty and truth, and and um, you know, so many people on the left and the right, everybody's trying to sort of promote their their point of view. And I think what's kind of got lost in that is any sort of sense of objective truth. And and and um, I mean, we used to do an assignment. I would have uh I had a former student come in and burst into one of my classes at the University of Oregon and um and make a commotion, and then I'd sort of have to kick him out of the room, and and then I'd say, okay, you have one hour, I want you to write your story. What what just happened? And I would get 16 different versions of the truth. And I understand that that it's it's hard to find an objective truth in journalism, but uh we've gotten so far away from that now that um uh I think it's a dangerous time in America. And and um, you know, I I think that the the truth has kind of gotten uh blown away in the wind in many ways. So I'm I'm I'm less concerned about the technological changes as I am about the uh the accuracy, the fairness changes. I mean, when I started in this business, I mean, a professor would say, if you make a fact error to story, um every every error you make drops your grade by one. And if you misspell somebody's name, you simply flunk the assignment. There was a standard that you adhere to, and now anyone just sort of gets online and says, Oh, I'm a journalist, and they and and they might not have any training, they might not have any ethics, and yet they get out there and start telling you this is what's going on in the world. Maybe it is, but maybe, and and probably most probably it's not

Journalism’s Shift And Truth’s Fragility

SPEAKER_00 17:32

because you've got an axe to grind and you're not really seeking the truth. You're you're seeking to promote you know your left or right, getting the ball across the goal line. So that's my bigger concern.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yeah, that's a that's kind of a dangerous future of you know the lack of objective truth. And I guess to your point, there is vantage points, right? Different vantage points, but a lack of objective truths, then you get in the world of propaganda, and you know, it's all about the money or whatever, whatever else is the motivation.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah, and I've I've I've enjoyed not getting into the political fray much. I've enjoyed um, I just like I've I'm more interested in telling people stories and inspiring someone. Um, you know, I can't I can't control the world, and uh I learned that long ago, but I can write something that 20 years later I get an email. I I just retired as a nurse, and I want you to know I became a nurse because I read American Nightingale. I was so inspired by Francis Slanger or something like that. To me, that's that's the kickback. That's the that's the joy of of writing, is that you can change the world, inspire people in in big ways and small ways.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Uh before we get transition into talking about resolve and talking about how things have changed over time, um, and this is a little bit off the beaten path, but can you could you have ever imagined that the University of Oregon would have ended up in the Big Ten?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

No, no. And um, and I wish that they hadn't. Nothing against the Big Ten at all. Um you know, it's an amazing conference, and it's it's an honor to be part of it. But but you know, I I guess I'm a I'm a regionalist at heart. I I believe there's some I I sail last night I was sailing with a friend of mine who's who was a uh geography professor at the University of Oregon, and he was saying where we live, where we're located, really matters to us. And and somehow trying to trying to um trying to get used to the Big Ten has just been really hard for those of us out here in the West because we had this West Coast conference and and we were kind of like this family. And suddenly, you know, you're playing a baseball game against Maryland at 8 a.m. our time on a Sunday morning. It's like it's hard, it's been hard to kind of figure out who's who. And and you know, uh, you know, we like our rivalries, you know, we like Oregon State, the Oregon, and and Oregon and Washington. Suddenly that's kind of diluted. Um, again, privileged to be part of the Big Ten, but if I could change the hands of time, I would go back and say uh keep the Pac-12 together. But yeah, like we just don't even get me going about what it was like to sit at the Rose Bowl and get throttled by Ohio State. Yeah, but anyway, that was maybe the worst day of my life. The Oregon just never showed up.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

But my money has changed things, and that's it really has.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

And and it's just, I mean, in the last 10 years, so many changes in our, you know, politically and then uh athletically. Uh gosh, you know, between the NIL and conference changes, uh, the transfer portal, like like my son, you know, I got a 45-year-old son, he and he just doesn't go to Oregon basketball game. He goes, Dad, I don't know any of these guys. They're here for one year, maybe two. They come and go. You'd follow a kid from his freshman year to his senior year. And again, that was the those were the old days, but I do kind of miss some of that cohesiveness within conferences and within the universities uh that we used to have that now seems scattered in the wind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Bobby's at the I was at the uh Big Ten tournament

Sports, Region, And Cultural Change

SPEAKER_02 21:28

for basketball trying to cheer on my Indiana Hoosiers, and we just got bounced out immediately by your ducks. And that was just that was just a pain to watch.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

I'm sure, I'm sure it was. Once they throw the ball up in the air for basketball or kickoff and football, I still love the game itself. I'm a season ticket holder. I I I live exactly one mile from here to Austin Stadium where we play football. We walk to games. I love I still love the game. I just don't love all of the uh the money and the the the lack of loyalty. We going back to loyalty, we were talking about journalism and the truth and stuff. And and now you got the there used to be uh, you know, a kid would in in a kid would commit to Indiana and like I'm gonna I'm gonna be a Hoosier for four years. And and you know, now it's like, well, I didn't like my coach that much, so I'm gonna transfer. Well, I don't like my situation here, I'm gonna transfer. And so the and loyalty among coaches, players, it's it's a crazy world.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

So well, as we kind of transition, talk about resolve. Um, I think this to get this conversation kicked off, love to just get your vantage point of how Clay Connor's story got to you. And what was the process like to learn about Clay Connor?

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, well, uh working on Resolve and uh working with your uh your uh fathers and and uncles um was a joy. Um I believe that they had another author uh that who wasn't working out, and um, so somehow they got in contact with my agent who who contacted me. Would you want to do this? Um and I immediately gravitated to the story. Um, because what was interesting about Clay Connor was in storytelling terms, there was no there was no uh he had no business surviving like he did. He was a guy who had never camped out a single night. He was a golfer at Duke, he was a cheerleader at Duke, he had hardly fired a gun. And suddenly he's in the jungle of Luzon, and he's gotta not only um he's not a go he has to ingratiate himself with six strangers, U.S. soldiers that he doesn't know. He has to avoid the Japanese army, he has to uh uh he has to avoid snakes and disease, I mean, and and elevation changes that make my hike on the Pacific Crest Trail look like a walk in the park. I mean, there was just no reason why why he should have survived what he did. And so, in storytelling terms, that was great. But the the third question was then, okay, so how difficult or easy will be this book be to write? And I remember talking to one of uh uh Ben, I think it was your father, and and I said, Well, how much information do you have? And he's I remember he said, Well, are you at your computer? And I said, Well, uh, yeah, I am. And he said, Well, I'm gonna send you a couple of files. And so we're on the phone, and all of a sudden these files start showing up on my screen, and I'm looking at them, and I'm like, it this is like uh I just walked into a five-star restaurant and they brought me every one of their finest courses right in front of me and said, Here, eat. And so, um, whereas American Nightingale, I worked for four years on that book, and I all I knew is Slanger wrote this beautiful letter. She was killed that night. They named a hospital ship in her honor. This was the resolve was just the opposite. It was just like, oh my gosh, not only is this a great story, and these seem like good people to work with, but but here's all this information because your grandfather had kept copious notes, and and as I recall, um uh had stuffed them into bamboo, you know, like uh four or five-inch thick bamboo uh stalks, and then had friends in the Philippines save them and then send them home to him, his journal after the war. So he kept these notes and these journals and letters, the letters that your um grandmother was uh uh or your no, I guess it would be your great grandmother, you know. Is where's my son Clay? You know, is he okay? All of these letters were provided to me, which made a great start to every chapter as we updated this mother's, you know, absolute desperation to find out what happened to her son. Is he alive? Um, it was it was the the perfect storm of of

How Clay Connor’s Story Reached Bob

SPEAKER_00 26:05

easy writing. I mean, easy compared to to a lot of writing, and it was just a uh a privilege to to do it.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

At some level, does there become too much information in a story like that?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

That that is a definite definite problem. I'm I think I had 32 notebooks of hard copy information on American Nightingale, and I think um uh I'm sure there were dozens and dozens of files that were sent me for resolve. So, yeah, part of it is you know, like I've I said, I just got through writing a book about writing called called Writer, and and part of it is like wrestling a dinosaur. It's like, yeah, you have this great opportunity, but like okay, where do I even start? Because you you do have this just uh just this so much information, and you have to always keep reminding, okay, so what's the story? What's important and what's not? But a lot of the at the start, the biggest part is to sort of decide what is not part of the story. Like a friend of mine, Jenker Patrick, uh, she's a uh historic fiction writer. She says, if you want to sculpt an elephant, you take a block of stone and you chip away everything that isn't the elephant, and then you get your elephant. And and in the same way with Resolve, I had to do the same thing. I had to chip away everything that really wasn't Clay Connor's story. And uh, but for but that really um having all that information was way more advantage than detriment, to let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

I remember when you when you uh came out to Indianapolis and the guys laid everything out on the big round table in our conference room, and it was everything from photographs to his his handwritings to his pistol, I pistol, yeah, yeah, to the to the pistol, to the American Bible Society New Testament, right, to the letters you referenced that his mother, Ben's grandmother wrote to the State Department at the time, to the the three different three ring binders that he had kind of taken and basically written his memoir. I mean, he was a scrapbooker before scrapbooking was popular, definitely. And I remember you kind of looking at it, of course, you know, not knowing you, and you just said, Well, this is the most well-documented book that never existed that was.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

And I don't remember saying that, but I'm sure that I did. Uh, it was I was blown away, and and I'm just not I wasn't used to that kind of organization. And I think if I'm not mistaken, that's a bit of a family trait. I mean, starting with your grandfather and obviously passed down to your father and uncles, and um um, and I was the beneficiary of that. So it was it was uh, I think, I think we wrote the story fairly fast because I didn't have to, you know, with with American Night, I spent pretty much um, I went back to the Northeast twice. I flew to France. I was in I was in Normandy, France on 9-11 of all days, uh trying to trying to follow the steps of Francis Slanger there. Whereas your grandfather had documented his journey, his adventure so well that I didn't need to do any of that. So I believe I had a rough draft done of this book, probably within six to nine months. Whereas uh again, it was a four-year process for American Nightingale.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Well, you also mentioned how in a classroom setting you you created a situation and asked the students to then write about what they observed, right? I also remember kind of tangentially watching you interview all four brothers, and that was exactly the same thing. They all they all grew up in the same household with the same parents, hearing the same stories, having the same occurrences, but I'm sure you heard a similar story told from a different vantage point, you know. They were separated.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Somebody once said, Um, even though we grow up in the same family, we all have different parents. That's true, okay, and and I think. There's a truth to that because I've I've I've I'm kind of a little bit of an expert on memoir writing as well, and I've seen this happen many times where, like if my sister and I sat down to talk about what our childhoods were like, we we had two different childhoods. They would say, Well, mom and dad were like this, and and and Linda, she might say, No, they were like this, and and both of us are right. And so, yeah, I think each of the the four sons had a

Turning Archives Into Narrative

SPEAKER_00 30:25

different, a little bit different perspective. But I would say for the most part, they were they were fairly aligned in their in their respect, uh, in their in their seeing uh their father for who he was, uh, for seeing his uh attributes, for seeing some of his his weaknesses. I uh for the most part, they were aligned, and that made my job pretty simple. I didn't have anybody calling me, you know, uh later after meeting, say, well, you know, you know, he said this, but it's really like that, or whatever like that. So it was never, it was, it was a smooth process, uh, and an invigorating process because they were they were as excited about this story coming out as as I was as a writer. And I always I felt a great sense of team, team uh play. Uh, we were all on the same page. Uh I had their support. I think they felt that they that I was doing the right thing, and so it was a it was a pleasure to be part of it.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Well, it's been over 10 years now. I can't even believe that. No, think back. Were there some surprises along the way, either in digging through the information or just surprises and maybe how you chose to convey the story? Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

You know, the only surprise that that I can that it was was just um, you know, your grandfather's late in life and some of the the decisions that he made late in life. Um that uh that was a surprise to me because it didn't seem to fit the character of the man that that that I was writing about. But I also have interviewed thousands of people, and I know that that people are complex and and um so uh people make decisions for for lots of different reasons. But um anyway, that that was probably the biggest surprise to me. But but the story as it was unfolding, I guess uh I guess I was surprised. I had no idea that he went through as much difficulty as he did to survive. I mean, you know, you think of Swiss Family Robinson, somebody, somebody said that this book was like uh unbroken meets uh Swiss Family Robinson. And I kind of like that. And if you know anyone who's read or seen the movie Unbroken knows what those uh soldiers who were part of the Japanese uh prison camps, what what they went through. But your father, um I just I just think it's incredible that he survived partly because even if he had been equipped to handle it, but but but mainly because he was so unequipped to handle it. And and how at one point he he had no support of his own men. They didn't respect him. And I think that his is a great story of somebody not talking uh themselves into a sense of respect, but showing, you know, just you know, uh uh doing the thing and and and and earning the honor of the men around him. And so so he wound up being this leader, putting this ragtag group of uh pygmy negritos and and uh other other Filipinos together in this in this little uh army that that clearly he was he was the dude, he was the guy, he was the the man that these people were gonna follow. And so that the nowhere to somewhere um swath of clay conner was probably the biggest biggest surprise. And again, from storytelling standpoint, it was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

What uh what you know, there's a lot of different moments in that where you're like, man, I can't believe that he navigated that situation or circumstance. Yeah. What what particularly struck you? Were there any particular stories or moments where you're like, I just can't believe this?

SPEAKER_00 34:20

It was it was it was Ben, it was like one after another. I mean, it was just this rolling wave of that happening. But the one that strikes me most was when he dared to go into this village and and he told his his buddies who had pretty much given up hope. And Clay was the one that kept that group together. He was the one that kept saying, we can do this, but we we can't do it alone. We have to ingratiate ourselves to this pygmy negrito tribe. They're our salvation. They they know how to protect themselves from the Japanese, and we need we need to lock arms with them. So I try to imagine myself at age 22 or three, I think, when I was, you know, maybe just graduating from the U. Here's how how here's how cowardly I was. Spring vacation in my senior year, my wife and I, I got married before my senior year. We drove up to Seattle ostensibly to look for a

Divergent Memories, Shared Respect

SPEAKER_00 35:18

job in a newspaper. I was so fearful. All I did in the entire week was walk into the Olympian in Olympia, Washington, and buy a newspaper. And then we came home from spring break. And that I okay, so that's how what a weekly night was. Your grandfather walks into a pygmy negrito village. He's white, he's an American, they're they're black, they're pygmy negritos, they know the land, he doesn't know the land, they know the customs, he doesn't know the and he basically says, Hey, you know, I'm Clay Connor, uh, I'm part of this rag tag outfit. Why don't we why don't we work together? We can help each other out. We can teach you, we can teach you some things that will help you, and you can teach us some things that will help us. I mean, who does that? That to me was the moment of courage, and and really, I think that was the the what we in writing we would call the point of insight. That's where everything changed. Because for some strange reason, this king whose name escapes me my name, he liked your grandfather. He he thought he was a cool dude. And your your grandfather had grown up on Western movies, and he had this little sense of John Wayne in him that he's seen from the screen, and he played it out in how he treated other people. He treated people with great respect, but he was also just cocky enough, just confident enough to win over this king who who really didn't need uh this little ragtag group of Americans as much as they needed his tribe. So that that was the moment for me.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

That's awesome. Um, yeah, there's there's so many things that occurred, and I totally agree that that was the moment that changed it all, and really the audacity.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

There seems to be that's a great word, Ben. It was the audacity to to do it in the first place.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Yeah, I mean, so many moments where it was really pushing your chips all in.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Yeah, and the other thing was he was eloquent, he not only was a swashbuckler, and and and and and and where that came from for a guy who really uh you know the last year had been disrespected by his own men because they didn't think he was tough enough, you know, again, the cheerleader, golf background. I mean, come on, he wasn't a wrestler or something. Um he also was eloquent and and um he wrote very well and he spoke very well, and he he touched these people's hearts. I mean, if you want to change people, you you've got to get to the heart. And I think that that's what I appreciate about Clay was that he he did that. And um so anyway, what an amazing story. I I I can't I do I someday before I die, I would love to see the movie version of this. And I know it came, we came close right before COVID, and then it kind of blew away. But uh anyway, I still haven't got a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Talk a little bit about that, Bob. What what was what was seemingly in the works right before COVID? And uh what what what's your hopes and dreams about about a movie?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Well, I all I know is that I was talking to somebody who who really showed me great respect. I mean, I've been I've been approached for my books probably a half a dozen to a dozen times for people, you know, the wizard of Foz, the guy who invented the Fosbury flop high jump style. I I have lots of people who come to me and they say they want to do a movie about it, but they they really like the idea of it. They don't, they're not really committed to doing it. But but in in Resolve's case, right before um uh COVID, it was gonna happen. I

Surprises In Clay’s Life Arc

SPEAKER_00 39:06

believe that um who was the who was the guy that had signed on as the executive uh producer? You guys know? I don't recall uh God he well his brother used to play on Blue Bloods. Um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Oh, um you mean the Wahlberg?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the Wahlberg's older brother, that his brother, as I recall, was gonna be the executive director of this movie. It was gonna be filmed in either Hawaii or the Philippines. I'd seen the contract. Um I'd done everything but sign the contract, and I was pretty excited about the whole thing. Um yeah, and then COVID hit, and somehow people went through different directions during COVID, and I don't think they could get the the band back together, as it were, after COVID. So um anyway, I I'd still love to see that happen. I know that you guys have have you know made every phone call, sent every text you message you can to whoever you can, and you know, but we just you know you got to keep working away. Just and if you want any inspiration, Clay Connor is a great one because you know there was no reason he should have been alive after three years in those jungles, but he he's he somehow was, and so hopefully we can just keep working away and something will happen.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

So um you mentioned um I'm gonna circle back to you talked about the surprise and uh just the more or less the decisions at the end of his life. I think I've had at least a dozen comments of because that's included at the end of the book, and um I think that surprised a lot of people of like, well, why and how did that get in there? So if you could kind of share, because there had to be a conversation of there's this war story, but it's it's about it's about this man. And what was the conversation like with maybe even my dad and my uncles and you about why or why or how or or what you know what's the story about that being included at the end?

SPEAKER_00 41:11

I think that you know, I think that when we sat down to talk about the story to begin with, we we said, um we just need to be honest. We just you know, if you're gonna tell somebody's life story, their their memoir, um, you can't you can't say, well, let's tell this part, but let's not tell the other part. I mean, you you we're all complex and we all do good things and we do some not so good things. And um, you know, with your grandfather, you at the end of his life toward the end of his life, he he left your grandmother and and took up with someone else. And and um again, that seemed inconsistent to me as a as a writer with with um the clay conner that I'd come to know through the story. But I again I don't know, I don't know what his life was like like that. I don't, I, I, and I, and I hate to just sort of say, oh, I'm I'm not gonna let that sort of um uh taint everything that he did that was so positive.

The Audacity That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00 42:12

It it was kind of a clank, it was kind of a like, whoa, waiter, where did this come from? But I think that when you tell the the full truth like that, the reader is more willing to realize that the other stuff that you told about the person that was really positive, that really is true. That uh that we're not just shining you on. We didn't just create this story. Uh, it's not a piece of fiction. This is who the man was. He was a man of great integrity, of great uh great honesty, of great um perseverance. Um, and then at the end of his life, there was a a quirky decision, I think, that he made. And so I I try to look at the people that I write about in the in the in the full terms and realize that myself, you know. I uh I've got I've got skeletons in my closet, you know. I in college I cheated on a test, you know, and that, you know, I've never told that story until the five seconds ago. But but anyway, I I can't even believe that I did it. I did it. Uh, and um someday I'm I'm gonna tell that story. But you know, I would hate for someone to say, oh, then you're a bad person. I can, you know, I don't want to read your book about writing or about hiking the Pacific Rest Trail, or I don't trust anything you wrote because you did that. So we all are complex, and and I think you have to you have to look at the person as a as a whole, as an entity, as opposed to just like this or this or this.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Yeah. I mean, I look at it in a couple of ways of one, it highlights really in a maybe not so subtle way that uh we all have a need for a savior. Yeah, no matter someone's integrity level, we all have have made decisions that that put us in that position.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

And two kind of the Romans 3 3 23 uh world, you know, we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

And yeah, and also just no matter how how disciplined someone is, or you know, the the path, you know, the the the pathway of integrity that you've laid, like you you have to be on guard all the time.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Right, yeah, definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Um, or things can happen. So no, I think um that's one thing that's interesting as a family member for that part of the book. And as you mentioned, my grand my grandfather uh leaving my grandmother for another woman. Um, that being in the book, um, it's it was interesting to read that, but it it it's also it's part of who he was, and it was part of our family story, and it's it's something to to to learn from, and also in a weird way be encouraged from of like no, like this is really important, and these things do affect affect people, and all all decisions good and bad. So um, very interesting. Um well, Bob, again, I I can't think of anyone that was a better, could have been a better choice uh to write about my grandfather and tell that story. You did it so perfectly, and our family is truly grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Well, and as I said, Ben, it was a a privilege. And uh, and you know, I have a I have a habit when I go speak somewhere, I fly somewhere. Um, I always I I I walk I read my own books on the plane, my old, you know, my old books. It's like, you know, I spent a lot of time on that, and and I don't want to just put it on the shelf and and and and never revisit. So uh recently I was uh flying, I believe, to San Antonio to speak to some military nurses, and I read Resolve. And I don't say this egotistically, but I mean as I'm reading, I'm just going, this is a this is a really good book. And again, not because I wrote it, but because your grandfather lived it. And um, and again, I just I so can see it as a as a movie because it's uh there's so much action. Some of it's physical,

Voice, Leadership, And Heart

SPEAKER_00 46:20

and some of it's simply um your your grandfather's uh perseverance, his his his unwillingness to quit, and and his staying focused on the things that that mattered. Um, bringing home uh the what kind of story is this? I mean, like he goes through all this and he doesn't, he never forgets the Filipinos who helped him. And and one of the Filipinos who helped him comes back and winds up working, what for this is he like a state police dude in Indiana? Your dad or your grandfather gets him a job. He's like this high position in the Indiana state police. I mean, who does that? I mean, that's the Clay Connor that I remember, and that's the Clay Connor that that inspires me. And so um his story has so much dimension, and there's so much schlock on the big screen these days, stories we've seen over and over, and and war stories that are really nothing about this group of guys killing this group of guys, to be honest. And and your your grandfather's story was has so much dimension and um and uh integrity that I I just I do hope that it I have to wave to my neighbor lady walking by. Um I do hope that it becomes a movie someday. And I I'm gonna I'm going to double my prayers to that effort.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Absolutely. Think about this, Bob. That the whole war experience occurred in the 40s. It it kind of worked its way out with Clay during his lifetime. He passed away in the early 80s. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

The book I know, and it's and it's that we're in the 20s now. It's like we're coming out. We're actually starting to think about maybe the hundred-year anniversary of World War II. That's right. Crazy. Okay, we've got we've got past 80, and so it's amazing how time passes, but but good stories uh live on, and I do I do hope that your grandfathers does.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

So well, think about this. Then the book gets written in you know early 2010s. Right. And let me ask you this question: Do you think Bob Welch would have been prepared to write Resolve in 1992?

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Uh no way. No way. I mean, I think that God sort of takes us through and and gives us the tool, the just the tools that uh we can get something done with, and then he gives us more sophisticated tools down the road. But right, um, again, I've always to be honest with you, uh, American Nightingale, we we literally, my sons and I put together a DVD because we could Simon and Schuster basically said, You're on your own for publicity. Great. You know, I worked for four years on this project. So anyway, my sons and I put together a DVD on Francis Slanger, and we sent 200 out, and one entity responded. Wow. One, but it was Good Morning America. So we got on Good Morning America. Um, that's the good news. And the bad news is that Ronald Reagan died the same week and then sucked all the air out of the Good Morning America episode we were on. So we only appeared on the East Coast. So, long story short, American Night Gail never got any traction and it never sold all

The Almost-Movie And What’s Next

SPEAKER_00 49:35

that well. And I've always lamented, I always thought that was a story that deserved to be on the big screen and it deserved to be a best-selling book. Again, not because I wrote it, because Francis Slanger lived it. But at any rate, if I hadn't have gone through that process, my at my agent wouldn't have known that I had the chops to write Resolve, and he never even would have approached me about it. That's right. So, you know, why do things happen for a reading? You know, that that's why I wrote it. So good question, Todd. And and you're right. I I you kind of have to go through these trials, I think, to get to get to another another level level.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

Took 65 years for the book to be written. I hope it doesn't take 65 years for the movie. Um, obviously, we're all waiting and praying for the right director, the right producers, the right actors. I think something that might be happening in the uh God's economy is that we know that movies are they're harder to be profitable these days. There's less eyeballs, it's it's it's more fragmented, more fractured. Right. But we also have technology increasing that allows us to make movies at uh that are even better produced at a lower cost, right? Right. So my hope is that those two lines are crossing here in the near future. Yeah, because I want to be like you do, around when that movie's made. Right. It will be made. Yeah, I just want to be around when it's made.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

All right, and we will have a big reunion celebration in Indianapolis. Meanwhile, you're you're both welcome to come out to Eugene the next time Indiana plays the Ducks.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

I think I think maybe we play Indiana maybe at home this year, maybe in Eugene.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

We might have to make a trip out there.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

I was I just this morning drove by the they're putting in a brand new, you know, the Phil Knight Nike money. They're putting in a new indoor practice facility at Oregon, um, that's supposed to be kind of state of the art. I mean, it looks like a giant spaceship, but like they I don't even know where they're gonna practice this year because all their fields are there's no way it's gonna be ready in in another two weeks or a month for fall ball. But anyway, if you're you're always welcome to come out here to Eugene and watch your Hoosiers. And I I like the Hoosiers actually. I I mean, partly because of my connection to you and your family. Oh, and the other cool thing was I think Ben, it was your dad. I had a a day off when I was back there, and he said, and I said, Where how close is that that gym that they filmed Hoosiers at? And he goes, Oh, that's it's only about 90 minutes from Indianapolis. And are you kidding me? So I got a rental car and I got to go and and I show up on like a Sunday morning and a neighbor comes over. I'm like looking in there, it's all locked up. A neighbor comes over, oh, I got the key. You want to see it? And I literally get to go in the the gym that was filmed in the movie Who's Yours and shoot baskets? Anyway, it was a great time to be back there with you and your family, and I wish you guys all well.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

I appreciate that, Bob. And we usually end our episodes with two questions for our guests. So one to ask you the first question: what is a risk that you have taken that has changed your life?

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Uh hiking the Pacific Crest Trail comes to mind. Um, I did that over an 11-year period, uh, starting in 2011. Finished in my brother-in-law, uh, you know, finished it in 22, and I leave next week for the high Sierra. So that's changed my life in the sense that it's I think it's given me confidence to do things I never thought that I could. I think you you can apply that to your writing or you know, being a grandparent or whatever your your thing. So um that was a huge risk.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Um and uh share a little bit about that, Bob. You uh uh what is that? What what's that hike like? And uh of course you're an author, so you wrote about it, right?

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah, I my book is Seven Summers and a Few Bummers. Um, it was gonna happen in seven years. It it took we finally did it in 11 after COVID, and family members dying, not on the trail, but while we were hiking uh after fires, lots of fires on the trail. So the the trail goes from Mexico along the uh high Sierra of California and the high cascades of Oregon and Washington to the Canadian border. It's uh it's the equivalent of elevation is the equivalent of hiking to the top from sea level to Mount Everest and down 16 times. Oh my gosh. Uh it's very twisting and turning, and you know, you're

Why Include The Imperfect Ending

SPEAKER_00 54:05

going about 20 miles a day. You're your all of your food and water, you know, is on your back. Well, not all your water because you stop and get that in springs and rivers and such. But it's quite an adventure. And uh, you know, my brother-in-law is gonna be, he's 73, I'm now 71. And we're when we, yeah, we're always the oldest people out there. But it's fun to, you know, to to hobnob with the young ones, as we call them. And uh the beauty, you know, God's beauty uh is everywhere, but it, you know, like the high Sierra, you're almost always above eight to 10,000 feet and above the tree line, and you go as high as Mount Whitney, which is 14,505. It's the highest point in the in the lower 48 states. We'll hopefully on uh August 12th, we'll be on the top of that to see the sunrise. So it's it's it's increased, it's it's made me appreciate all the more the the the the amazing uh sculpting of the of our world of this earth by God. And uh and it's and it's it's it's taught me in the same way that I think Clay Connor probably learned got a lot of confidence from what he went through that that even though when you don't think you can do something, you know, if you you can, and so that's probably the biggest risk I can think of.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

2653 miles is what the uh internet says that is. You think?

SPEAKER_00 55:27

How many have I completed?

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Oh, I mean, I've I've done the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

The whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

Yeah, so uh we did it in 17 different sections because I had we both my butt my brother-in-law is a doctor. We couldn't, you know, the young ones will start in April and they'll they'll do it in four to five months. They'll hide your thing in one summer, and hopefully before the snow flies in the North Cascades by the Canadian border. Um, Glenn and I, because we had jobs, we we uh did it in 17 different sections, and I think the most was maybe 350 miles, and the least was what 20 miles. My brother got uh brother-in-law got uh uh heat stroke uh in the desert of California. So we only lasted one one day down there, but and I I came close to hypothermia high in the in the John the high Sierra of California, so lots of adventure. Um, but just uh I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

So what was the longest number of days you were out?

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Great question, and I think 23 was our longest trip, and and I think that included one shower. Oh so you can imagine what you look like. I mean, you have your you have your food mailed ahead in most cases to like fishing lodges or grocery stores along the way, sometimes a post office. Um, you pick it up that way. I mean, we we sent our food for uh this trip that we're leaving on on August 1st. We had to send the food um 10 days ago. So you can imagine it's gonna be almost a month, but when we open that five-pound bucket at this little muir trail ranch um along the way, it's gonna be have been in there about a month. All of our Snickers bars and our freeze-dried meals and such. Um it's not gourmet eating on the Pacific Crest Trail.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

It's just calorie intake, is all it is.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Yep, you just exactly you use about 5,000 a day to go about 18 to 20 miles, and you you have to replenish that somehow. So you eat a lot of junky stuff.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Do you ever find uh berries along the way?

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Oh, yeah. The berries are best in northern Washington, Huckleberries in particular. Uh, and you you learn to just hard to hike and just sort of grab them with your hands without stopping, because you're always, you know, you gotta keep your your eyes focused on Canada.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

So oh my gosh. Well, Bob, the second question we'd like to ask people is what is left yet unfinished that you, my friend, have the resolve to yet complete?

SPEAKER_00 58:06

Wow, that's a great question. Um, I want to write a novel. I've um I've written over two over two dozen books and helped people write uh maybe another dozen. They're all true stories, except for my keyboard kitten series um for kids. But I'm I'm right now I'm as I finished, I've just finished a book called Writer that's coming out in September. And it's just about my 40 to 50 years of uh experience as a writer, what I've learned from it, and and how how I can help others write. Um so I'm excited about that. It's it's ahead of schedule, and I think it's a pretty good book. But then I'm gonna, I've I've always I've always told true stories, and suddenly to make up a story, I'm having a hard time getting my mind to allow myself to lie. Not and and all my my novelist friends said, You're not lying, you're telling a true story, you're just imagining it. So um that's that's the the thing that I the thing on my bucket list um would be to do that. Um, I'd love to watch uh one round of the masters

Legacy, Loyalty, And Reciprocity

SPEAKER_00 59:12

at Augusta. Um but I don't I don't have a long bucket list. I I've I've had a pretty blessed life uh between the people I've met at writing, between um uh a great family. Our our two sons live here in Eugene, and we have five grandkids within 10 minutes of us. It's we watch a lot of baseball and football games. So I and we have a beach cabin on the Oregon coast, 90 minutes away from here. Uh so anyway, I I don't have a lot of unfinished business, but but the novel would probably come to mind.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Uh that's a good lesson for everybody. Get yeah, get past all the stuff and not leave not a lot of unfinished business. I like that. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 59:54

Well, Bob, thanks for thanks for joining us. Uh, and thanks for our listeners. Uh and And uh this ends another episode of the Risk and Resolve Pod. Thanks, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

Thank you so much.