Stanford MBA: From Baby Boomer to Gen Z | Class of ‘95 Meets Class of ‘25

Podcast Ep. 9 Stanford MBA '95 Volker Schmidt meets Laura Kiehl '25

• Katharine McLennan • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Today, I’m joined by Volker Schmidt from the Stanford MBA Class of 1995 and Laura Kiehl from the Class of 2025. Volker is a seasoned investor and leadership advisor with deep roots in Europe’s Mittelstand. He began his career at BCG before co-founding EMERAM Capital Partners and later Blue Ocean Partner, helping small and mid-sized companies scale through growth strategy and private equity.

 Laura is a second-year MBA student at Stanford GSB, originally from Germany and Poland. Before business school, she worked in consulting at BCG and co-founded an initiative supporting First-Generation professionals. At Stanford, she’s explored everything from HealthTech VC to women’s entrepreneurship as a co-lead of Galvanizer, the school’s accelerator for MBA female founders.

 In this episode, Volker and Laura share perspectives on European identity, career reinvention, and what it means to lead across generations. From kite-surfing off Cape Verde to navigating AI-powered classrooms at Stanford, their dialogue spans continents, industries, and life stages—offering practical wisdom and unexpected laughter along the way.

Chapters

00:00 Spring Break and Academic Pressures

03:58 Travel Adventures and Kite Surfing

07:09 Career Paths and Educational Journeys

10:11 Search Funds and Business Acquisitions

13:00 Cultural Perspectives on Risk and Entrepreneurship

15:55 Long-Term Commitments in Business

18:56 Reflections on Career Choices and Life Goals

23:13 Navigating Identity and Background in Business School

26:39 The Weight of Responsibility and Legacy

28:22 Shifting Perspectives on Life and Career

32:33 Political Climate and Campus Discussions

33:05 Bridging Divides Through Dialogue

36:30 The Future of Europe in a Changing World

38:38 Embracing Opportunities Amidst Challenges

41:56 The Impact of AI on Future Generations

45:41 The Evolution of AI and Business Models

47:02 AI in Education: Efficiency vs. Creativity

50:22 The Impact of AI on Daily Life

53:31 Generational Perspectives on AI and Social Media

57:02 Navigating the Challenges of AI and Mental Health

01:01:01 Bridging Generational Gaps and Global Mindsets 

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Stanford MBA: From Baby Boomer to Gen Z | Class of ‘95 Meets Class of ‘25

Each of these episodes will feature a different pair of Stanford MBA people -- one from the class of 1995, and one from the class of 2025.

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Katharine McLennan (01:02)

Today I'm joined by Volker Schmidt from the Stanford MBA class of 1995 and Laura Keele from the class of 2025. Volker is a seasoned investor and leadership advisor with deep roots in Europe's middle stand. He began his career at BCG before co-founding eMirah, M-E-M-E-R-A-M capital partners and later Blue Ocean Partners.

helping small and mid-sized companies scale through growth strategy and private equity. Laura is a second year MBA student at Stanford, originally from Germany and Poland. Before business school, she worked in consulting at BCG and co-founded an initiative supporting first generation professionals. At Stanford, she's explored everything from health tech, VC, to women's entrepreneurship.

as a co-leader of Galvanizer, the school's accelerator for MBA female founders. In this episode, Volker and Laura share perspectives on European identity, career reinvention, and what it means to lead across generations. From kite surfing off...

Cape Verde to navigating AI-powered classrooms at Stanford, their dialogue spans continents, industries, and life stages, offering practical wisdom and unexpected laughter along the way.

Katharine McLennan (02:27)

today I've got Volker and then Laura and I welcome you. Volker is from in Munich and Laura of course is at Stanford. So Laura, it is Monday at 11 o'clock, I believe. What are you up to as a student in their second year on a Monday at 11 o'clock?

Laura (02:41)

It is.

It is a very full schedule indeed, because this is our last week before we break for spring break, actually. it's a final week. We don't usually have final exams in our second year, which is great, but we have even more kind of papers, group projects, final projects, all of this, which is summing up more or less by the end of the week. So I think I have kind of like eight papers or eight pieces due by the end. It's quite a lot.

Katharine McLennan (02:54)

Okay, okay.

8 PAPES.

Laura (03:16)

or

Katharine McLennan (03:16)

FU-

Laura (03:17)

group projects, know, kind of all of this. So it is quite a busy one, and especially with people traveling and breaking for spring break afterwards, everyone is very much trying to tie the knot before they jump on that plane. Although saying that, it was so funny last year that I think that was the first time I've ever experienced it where same time spring break, we were going on our GSTs. I don't know if they were having it in your time, which is a global study trip, as they call it. Yeah, and then...

Volker Schmidt (03:42)

What is it? Yeah, sure.

Katharine McLennan (03:45)

We had one or

two, you guys have like 25.

Laura (03:48)

We do. Yeah, it's a

whole thing. It's so funny. I actually went to Australia for it, which was amazing. And I the first time that I saw people taking their exams on a plane because the like ride was obviously quite long and they wanted to optimize every every moment. And hence we're taking their finance exams on the plane. And I was like, this is just, again, such a business school thing to do from

Katharine McLennan (03:53)

Yay!

dear.

Laura (04:15)

kind of the optimization piece, but then also from the risk taking piece, because I was just thinking like, what if the Wi-Fi breaks? So yeah, that is, I think, top of mind for many of us right now.

Katharine McLennan (04:22)

You

What you're up to. What

happened to the little blue paper books that we had? We had exams throughout. I don't know you guys. That's another indication. Volker, where do we find you at the opposite side of the world on Monday night?

Laura (04:34)

They don't have them.

Volker Schmidt (04:42)

I'm just sitting in my little, very little office, like six square meters at home, home office. So yeah, just had dinner and had a more easy day basically. was with my parents, I was with my mom last night, yesterday, she had her 85th birthday. And so we returned on the last flight before they went on strike.

Katharine McLennan (05:04)

Fantastic.

Volker Schmidt (05:11)

in Munich and well, yeah, the airplanes are striking. So I'm just starting my week basically.

Katharine McLennan (05:12)

the airplanes. goodness.

Laura (05:13)

nice.

Katharine McLennan (05:19)

Now you've just come back from when I reached you, you were in some exotic location, Volker. Where's that?

Volker Schmidt (05:26)

Well, when you live in Munich, it's not that exotic when you're flying in from Sydney. But I was on the Cape Verdes, which is basically off the coast of Africa, roughly at the level of Senegal. So if you're from Munich, you would fly to the Canary Islands. And then if you continue the same direction for another two hours, that would take you to the Cape Verdes. It's a group of 14 islands, used to be Portuguese.

Katharine McLennan (05:31)

Yeah.

Yes.

Volker Schmidt (05:49)

They're independent since the mid seventies, I believe. And it's just.

Katharine McLennan (05:52)

Why Volcker?

What's the attraction there? Why do you love that?

Volker Schmidt (05:57)

Well, they have two natural resources, which is wind and waves. That's pretty much all they have. Yeah, so we had... Yeah, I was there for 14 days. The first week was my brother and the second week was my son. It was with some overlap. My brother was there for 10 days. And we had wind every single day for two weeks and two waves 10 out of 14 days. So we've been kite surfing and wing foiling and a little bit of surfing.

Katharine McLennan (06:03)

And you're a big one on that. I remember. You go.

How old is your son now? Okay.

Volker Schmidt (06:29)

My son is 28.

Katharine McLennan (06:31)

my gosh, that's amazing. So he was born

right after we graduated.

Volker Schmidt (06:37)

Yeah, well, basically, yes, he was. And we took a trip around the world and basically my wife, when we met on our first or second date, somehow the topic came up to kids. And she said she wanted to have, always wanted to have her kids before she turned 30. And at that time I told her she can have her kids when she is 30 because, know, it was the MBA I wanted to do and the trip around the world.

Katharine McLennan (06:44)

Fantastic.

Volker Schmidt (07:05)

So we actually stopped taking care on her 30th birthday and our son was born nine months later. So he's actually from New Zealand, a souvenir. He's from New Zealand.

Katharine McLennan (07:09)

No!

she's from New Zealand. I love that.

Laura (07:15)

Wow.

Katharine McLennan (07:16)

And you're like, you're the big kite surfer. You had some amazing photos that I remember that you presented to our sort of 25th reunion. Yeah, it was fantastic. man.

Volker Schmidt (07:26)

Yeah, I do a lot of kite surfing. The next

Laura (07:29)

Beautiful.

Volker Schmidt (07:31)

trip is already planned. In the summer we'll be sailing off the coast of Madagascar from a sailing boat. We'll be kiting there.

Katharine McLennan (07:37)

gosh. So Laura, came in to tell us about how you came into Stanford, what you were up to, and what has changed when you're exiting in five sentences or less.

Laura (07:40)

Wow.

Hmm.

Damn,

a good Monday challenge for sure. What was me coming in? I came in, I came from Berlin. kind of lived a little bit all over the place before, but most recently before the GSB. I always say I was stationed in Berlin. I was in consulting, so that was my home office, but I didn't ever have a project in Berlin. So I was just constantly traveling and had a project in the Middle East and Saudi Arabia before.

Katharine McLennan (07:55)

Ha ha.

As you do. Yeah.

Laura (08:18)

which is hugely interesting, as you do, as

you do, hugely interesting. And actually a great way also, we have a couple of people from Saudi in our class, and it's so interesting to connect with them on that and talk through it, which I absolutely love. Yeah, and then came from Berlin, moved as far as I could to the other side, there's a beautiful West Coast, which I really, really enjoyed. Yeah, wasn't, I said, in consulting before, and really wanted to take the time and Stanford to kind of...

explore and see what's out there in the world. I didn't do that much in undergrad and kind of fell into consulting and really wanted to take the time to first of all, emerge myself in this crazy world that is the Silicon Valley and the GSB with all the opportunities it holds and kind of really see what's out there from VC to search funds, entrepreneurship, all of the buff and all of the myths in between. And yeah, it's been a really, really good ride.

Katharine McLennan (09:13)

So the question that I remember all year, people hated, at least I did, what are you going to do when you graduate, Laura?

Laura (09:23)

Still

a very behavior question by literally everyone, especially the people who are recruiting right now. I'm exploring different options. was thinking about one thesis I was exploring over the course of, I guess, the past year is looking into search funds and the community around that, which I found hugely interesting. It's quite an underrepresented asset class, I think, overall, but especially in Europe. So it's not...

Katharine McLennan (09:26)

Alright, no-

Laura (09:48)

It's not that big in Europe, especially also looking at the numbers in Germany, you don't really have very few exits, very few funds around that, but the community here is very, very big. And the great place at Stanford is you have all of these investors to kind of flock in. And they're right outside your door. You don't actually need to do anything other than go to lunch or BBLs as we call them, brown bag lunch, not to be confused with another acronym. And it's...

Katharine McLennan (10:11)

Yep.

Laura (10:13)

It's been really great. It's been super interesting. Lovely community, very supportive, super lucky to take some of the very renowned courses with Jim Alice, Joao Rez from TTCR. They also do Search Garage. So really tried to understand that space better because I didn't before. And was lucky to also take an internship at a portfolio company that was acquired or a company was acquired by a searcher and as a

a company of another search fund and got to kind of work on hands-on on that one so that's been very rewarding and super interesting.

Katharine McLennan (10:49)

Now, Laura, that is a beautifully answered. You have practiced that and I can definitely see, I want to come back to some of those ideas though. So they're interesting. Now, Volker in five sentences or less. Actually, let's just take you back 30 years ago. You went around the world, which was unusual, but did you also work after that? Of course you did. What did you get up to after you came back?

Volker Schmidt (10:50)

Hmm.

Yeah,

I got lucky. think you were with BCG. Were you, Laura? Yeah, so I got, was, when I was at Stanford, I was in a scholarship from BCG, but there were no strings attached to that. But they did, because I didn't work with them before, you know, I had a scholarship which just happened to be paid by BCG. And anyway, so they offered me a job and they sent me a job contract. And all I had to do is put in the office and the date.

Laura (11:15)

Yeah, correct.

Katharine McLennan (11:20)

You see too.

Laura (11:23)

amazing.

Katharine McLennan (11:30)

got it. Okay.

Laura (11:36)

you

Volker Schmidt (11:39)

of starting and sign it. So I signed basically for nine months after graduation and decided that we would first... Yeah, and it was funny, basically the head of personnel of the Munich office called my wife, actually. I wasn't there.

Laura (11:42)

Amazing.

Wow, cool. Can you save me that contract? Maybe I could, I can send it to them as well and be.

Volker Schmidt (12:01)

basically asked, you he got that email and whether I'm actually shortening my studies and returning early or whether I do indeed mean, you know, May next year. And my wife just said yes. I said, don't, I told her before, if she, if he calls, you know, don't get into any discussions with him. So she just said yes. And then it was a moment of silence on the phone where he probably was waiting for her to say, well, yes, we know. so, but she just said yes and kept quiet. And then after a he said, well, you know, if he would have been able to do that, he would have.

Laura (12:10)

Haha.

Volker Schmidt (12:29)

I love to do it as well. When I came home, she said, I've just saved our trip around the world. We went for six months, Munich. We did go to Australia, the way, New Zealand, South Pacific, Latin America. We started off in Argentina with visiting some classmates from the Sloan program.

Katharine McLennan (12:31)

Fantastic.

thank goodness. Which office did you? six, in Munich, okay. Okay, but six months. As you should have, as you should have, so.

Laura (12:54)

Beautiful.

Katharine McLennan (12:57)

just awesome.

Volker Schmidt (12:57)

also 30 years

ago, we had classes and I was only hearing one of them, but there was this class from Irv Grausbeck who basically invented this whole search fund concept. So we are also, you know, we had presentations from some searches and actually the two friends of mine who graduated, I think class of 94 and class of 92.

Katharine McLennan (13:06)

yes!

Yes!

Laura (13:10)

Mm-hmm.

Volker Schmidt (13:23)

They basically still running that kind of concept here in Germany, if you want me to connect you, Laura. And we are actually sharing an office.

Katharine McLennan (13:32)

Laura...

Laura (13:33)

This is

the GSB, we're like not, you you just say two words and you're already like making connections on the network, it's amazing.

Katharine McLennan (13:38)

Well, we already,

we already loved you Laura, but tell us about search funds. Cause I don't actually even know what the distinction is. What are they?

Laura (13:47)

It is essentially a concept where you take, you kind of tap into the small and middle market enterprises. And you usually look for companies that have a established business model, have a set of revenue, et cetera, and you have an outside such who acquires the company. Usually, traditionally with kind of raised capital from investors, you could also do it a self funded one. So you use your own money to acquire it, which is

Katharine McLennan (13:54)

Okay. Yep.

Gotcha.

Laura (14:13)

Usually less common because people don't have that kind of capital to deploy. But that's the simple idea.

Katharine McLennan (14:20)

And how do you find these

Volker Schmidt (14:21)

just, just maybe for Laura's interest, you know, I think the two friends of mine, have modified the approach a little bit. Um, so they basically, actually one of them has been, well, one of them basically returned from Stanford and he realized that search fund concept and I think he had some money. And so he was actually hiring searchers. So he was hiring searchers and basic, and they still do that. And he was telling them, you know, why don't we look for buying a company together? You know, we present you as the...

Katharine McLennan (14:27)

Tell me.

Laura (14:27)

Mm.

Volker Schmidt (14:51)

new CEO, it's typically succession issues. The seller wants to see his company in good hands, that you are kind of presenting him the daughter or son-in-law that he doesn't have, which can take over his business. So it makes a big difference when you actually show the person who's gonna run the business already as the first meeting. basically, so they would take you on the payroll and search together with you.

Laura (14:52)

See you.

You

Katharine McLennan (15:10)

Yeah, keep going, Volker. It's great.

Volker Schmidt (15:16)

and help you find a company. And once you find a company, they would finance the deal and you would get like, you know, 25 % or so of the company. So like very similar to what it would be, but you save yourself the running around, finding investors. Plus they have been doing this for 25 years. And so they know all the &A advisors, they have all the network, they have a deal sourcer. So you don't start from scratch, which, you know, can take a lot of time just to, you know, to do the deal sourcing.

Katharine McLennan (15:31)

Wow, okay.

Volker Schmidt (15:46)

And they... So I'll send you the link later on. can look at the website.

Katharine McLennan (15:46)

What? Yep. And they.

Volker Schmidt (15:53)

If you look at their website, this is interesting. One of the arguments is that they have, you know, we do long-term succession issues. You don't want your company to be sold through strategic, you three years later. If you look at their website, it says, you know, family successions, and then it says companies bought 12, companies sold zero.

Katharine McLennan (16:12)

Yes.

Volker Schmidt (16:12)

So they are more into

Laura (16:11)

issue.

Volker Schmidt (16:13)

keeping for the long run, but that doesn't mean that there would still be a way out for the searchers if they want to do something else. Often the searchers get in for a few years and then they hire the next CEO and then the searcher can get out or buy the next company.

Katharine McLennan (16:20)

that would be so-

fantastic. I understand now because I've got a few clients that are private equity. I learn on leadership, I work on leadership and yeah, but they love to get out and that causes havoc. Laura, how come Germany doesn't have as much search funds and Volker could answer this too, what is it about the country that you think just hasn't happened?

Laura (16:54)

It's a really good question because we do have a very, very good and very strong middle class, which is actually kind of the backbone of the economy. So you would think it would be more common because succession issues happen anywhere, whether you don't have any children to pass it on or the children don't want to do it or you just can't find the right fit. So it is really interesting. think one is predominant theme in a big curious Volcker to hear your thoughts because I'm sure you have way more experience to contribute to this.

But I think one in general is a lot of risk aversion, think, is what is driving the country in general, which you can also see a lot of with VC investment and why they tend to be lot smaller than in the US, despite just being a smaller economy in general. So think a lot of it is in terms of risk aversion. it is a daunting concept, I think, even here in the US to say, as Volker described, it is a long-hauled concept. So it is not a...

I'm going in and I can potentially pivot or leave after a year if I don't like it. It is a true responsibility. You come in as a CEO, the employees expect you to be there for them. The owner has passed this legacy on to you. So it is a true responsibility. And with that comes a little bit of risk to, you I can't just opt out of the year, but you may stay five, six, seven, eight years. So I think that is a main driver in general, not just pertinent to Germany, but in general.

I think a deterrent to many people.

Katharine McLennan (18:15)

Well, we've to come back to Volker on that. But what is it that attracts you? Because I know what that word of consulting is. I was there before. I went back, arguably, because of risk, low risk of me going. Now, you're going to jump in. What is it about you? OK.

Laura (18:22)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, I'm not going to jump in, if I'm honest. So

it's just something that I'm exploring and looking at. I have been thinking around doing the jump, but also kind of my broader life trajectory. And one is that I do want to stay in the US for a couple of years, as much as kind of OPT and all of these things help. But I do long term. And this is also something that's been super interesting for me to kind of develop over the past two years.

Katharine McLennan (18:45)

Gotcha.

Laura (18:55)

sense of, I never really felt that sense before coming to the US, but that I do feel like I'm European. I am European at core and I love the US and I love being here. But I think when I think about where my life will be, especially once kids come into play, which is still kind of on the far horizon, but I want them or I want to then build a life more in Europe.

But nevertheless really want to take on the linings and life experiences that the US brings as well in this ecosystem and further that so I've decided for myself to stay in the US for the next one or two years and Then return to Europe now that doesn't really align with the search fund model as I just explained Because you need a longer trajectory for that and I was bouncing off the ideas I was talking to a lot of investors around this what kind of makes sense. Like does it make sense for me to

search for a company, you know, now in Europe, both being in the US and like vice versa. And it just seems not to be an ideal fit with that time trajectory. It's not to say it's not possible, but it's just, you you always want to optimize for a best outcome.

Katharine McLennan (19:52)

Look, well, we're going to change that in this

We're going to change that in this conversation because you now have a base in high intelligence and context. Now, Volker, did you end up in Germany almost after your world trip? You ended up in the Munich office. Did you end up staying in the last 30 years?

Volker Schmidt (20:13)

Yeah, well, we stayed in Munich. But first of all, we left, we were always in similar situation as Laura. I felt like we would love to stay here for maybe a few years. But, you know, and I was thinking about going to private equity or venture capital. And then we felt, if we do that, is both these professions are also more like a long-term concept, at least the incentive systems are very long-term.

Katharine McLennan (20:28)

Okay.

Volker Schmidt (20:37)

And so from that perspective, and we wanted the kids, or my wife wanted the kids to grow up in Germany. So basically we decided to go back home. And then, well, at that time, you know, kind of good. I enjoyed consulting. I'd done it for one and a half years and going to BCG was kind of the easy route at that time, but I also felt, you know, a few more years experience probably would help. And I ended up being eight years at BCG almost.

but then eventually did go into small cap private equity. And maybe just tie that quickly to add a class in Stanford, I'm not sure if that's still taught, it was called Creativity in Business, and Michael Ray. And so it was a lot about thinking what you want in life, et cetera, et cetera.

Laura (21:08)

I'm just...

Katharine McLennan (21:14)

Yes, yes.

Laura (21:16)

I wish, that sounds great.

Katharine McLennan (21:17)

Yes, what?

Volker Schmidt (21:22)

And we had to write an essay one day, we had to write an essay and the question, the task was how would you spend your time if you were independent wealthy? And in brackets fill in the number required. Actually, to ask yourself that question, what you would do if money doesn't matter is actually a very good thought. I've done it many times since then, but back then I wrote essentially, I would help small companies grow.

Laura (21:37)

good one.

Volker Schmidt (21:49)

The week after, we had to take a look at our essay and the challenge was, well, if that is what you would do, if it wasn't for the money, think about whether you could actually turn this into a profession. And that's how I ended up in Small Cap Private Equity eight years later. That came back to my mind when I left consulting. Well, I basically I didn't make partner at BCG, so I was forced to think about what I want to do next.

Laura (22:05)

That's a great story.

Katharine McLennan (22:05)

Wow.

Laura (22:10)

It's amazing.

Hahaha.

Volker Schmidt (22:16)

The real scary part was that I had like five or six options that I put on a piece of paper and went up on a mountain to think about them. And the scary part was that the first one I crossed off was consulting. I could have made partner in some other consulting firm. And it was not because I felt they were all second tier when you come from BCG, but I realized I really didn't want to do consulting anymore. And if I would have made partner, I probably would have never even thought about it.

Anyway, so that's how I ended up in Small Cap Private Equity.

Laura (22:44)

That's

great. That's super.

Katharine McLennan (22:45)

Vilker,

be careful what you ask for. But it's fascinating. So OK, Laura, so you guys are graduating. Arguably, you can see so many of the commonalities to where we head to. But you are graduating in a different, let's just say, political, socioeconomic, technological, and we've seen in the last month.

Laura (23:00)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (23:08)

that there's a reason that you may want to identify with Europeans. tell us what you're concerned about and excited about this world that you're entering. And again, five sentences or less. What are you guys, what's the big discussion about the world as it's emerging?

Laura (23:16)

Mmm.

Mmm.

I

Yeah,

I'm really bad with length or being concise as my tissue, feely group, thankfully pointed out. So I'm going to try to stick in the five. But first of all, I want to thank Volker. Like that was such a great story. And I relate to so many things that you mentioned there. So came from BCG and I, you know, one path and likely path is for me to go back. I'll buy doing that in the US for a couple of years. And it is always, you know, one concern to also tie it back to your question is have I made enough of this experience?

It is such a privilege to be here for me personally from you know being European which is you know We were represented on campus, but we're definitely not the biggest group on campus from being half German and half Polish So I'm actually the only Polish or half Polish person kind of in the school So it's a huge privilege to represent that from a kind of socioeconomic background as well So come more from a low-income background in that regard my family

Katharine McLennan (23:54)

Mm. Mm.

Laura (24:21)

My grandparents were photographers. My mom was a ballet dancer, so very different background. Many of my classmates have, love, I love, you know, what they do. And it's still so much creativity and, and resilience and kind of also entrepreneurship into me, but very, very different of what other people come from. The understanding of what business school is and how you prepare to get into it was also a very different path for me. I think when you look at my CV, a lot of it looks almost, looks very common.

going abroad in undergrad in London and consulting before and then business school. But for me, a lot of that was very serendipitous. It was not at all planned out. I kind of fell into it. I didn't know what consulting was. I just kind of fell into it. I barely knew what kind of business school MBA and what all of that prestige was about. Actually, when I was nine years old, I wanted to go to Harvard because I saw it on TV show and here I am. that tells you about how little I knew.

Katharine McLennan (25:14)

Good choice, Laura.

Volker Schmidt (25:16)

Which show is that? that

Laura (25:19)

Gilmore Girls.

Volker Schmidt (25:19)

the... Yeah, the Gilmore Girls. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. This is actually something... I have a daughter as well and, you know, this is actually... We are watching. We are still like somewhere back in 2006 or so on that. we've... But... Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (25:24)

I do, okay.

Laura (25:28)

There you go.

It's amazing. And I related to it because my mom is a single mom. So it kind of felt

like I was almost, I wasn't seeing a lot of role models of that kind of family. like two women, know, mother and daughter by themselves is not a lot that I saw in real life on TV. So I really, really related to that story.

Katharine McLennan (25:49)

Isn't

that funny? It's a German show. No.

Volker Schmidt (25:50)

When my daughter is visiting, we're often watching that series,

Laura (25:55)

It's

not, it's not. I think it's on Netflix now. You should watch it. It is amazing. But yeah, so that's kind of, it's a great show. I highly recommend it. And it's not cheesy as the title may kind of suggest, but yeah, so it's just, it's a huge feeling of gratitude and excitement. And every day I try to just really take a moment of presence to just be so grateful that I am able to be here. And I just love every moment of it.

Volker Schmidt (25:58)

Yeah, we watch on Netflix,

Katharine McLennan (26:00)

Isn't... Isn't that funny?

Mm.

you

Laura (26:24)

but with that also comes a great kind of responsibility and like, have I done enough to, to really carry this legacy in this, and this gift that I've been given forward. And that is tingling in the back of my mind as well as I think about different options post-school. And I'm very grateful that the opportunity I've been given in consulting, because it propelled me in very different ways in my learning curve and the mentors that I found there were fantastic. But I think there's something around going back that seems like it's a step.

back rather than a step forward in a way. And I know that one has to really try and reframe that because we are in a different time, in a different age, and you can make different possibilities with that. But I think it would be untruthful to not say that that thought is always still around there nevertheless.

Katharine McLennan (27:09)

Laura, it's an interesting responsibility that you take on. one of the things that we noticed, Volker, like I said, Volker made a presentation. We always have five people or so that make presentations every reunion. And Volker, tell us a little bit about that because it was a significant change in what we usually talked about five years out and 10 years out. Five years out, everybody was

Laura (27:21)

cool.

Katharine McLennan (27:32)

Well, not everybody. It seemed like everybody was making millions of dollars off the internet. And 10 years later, we talked about how the dot com crashed, wiped everybody out, but there were still millionaires. And then 25, or actually 27, because we couldn't go back for COVID. You make a presentation that takes a different tack on life for Laura and Laura coming out of business school. I do remember that. Oh my gosh, I've got a lot to give back. But as you get

Volker Schmidt (27:35)

Yeah.

Laura (27:37)

Hmm.

Katharine McLennan (28:01)

older, Volker, what happens?

Volker Schmidt (28:05)

Well, think in general, think a lot of the presentation of the 25th Union were more at the discussions were not so much about job anymore, but about life. And, you know, what is your plans in life? What are you doing in life? Not so much focus anymore on, you know, what is your professional objectives. And obviously that is because we had already 27 years of that behind us and only a shorter period.

Laura (28:16)

Mm.

Mmm.

Volker Schmidt (28:31)

ahead of us. One of the main topics of my speech was that, or the conclusion was that I tell my kids to forget about long-term planning and rather take care, look out for the opportunities ahead of you. Because in the end, everything will be different anyway. And all the best decisions in my life were all done by accident. And I gave some examples for that. I was forced into them.

Laura (28:40)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Katharine McLennan (28:54)

you

Volker Schmidt (28:55)

starting with coming back from the study trip and the immigration officers wouldn't let my girlfriend back in on New Year's Eve. And I proposed in the garage of San Francisco airport, like not knowing I would do that like a minute before I did. And we had our 31st wedding day, you know, last week. So, but that was completely unplanned.

Katharine McLennan (29:02)

That's...

No way!

What? Like

Laura (29:16)

Wow.

Katharine McLennan (29:16)

in the

the customs you asked her to marry you? In customs while you were waiting to get through?

Volker Schmidt (29:19)

in

the airport garage and sitting in our car.

Katharine McLennan (29:25)

SU2! But you went, so where did they prevent you from coming in? To the US or...?

Volker Schmidt (29:25)

It's

No, Andrea, like Andrea was, I was going to, I think Taiwan and South Korea, and Andrea was going home to her parents over Christmas. And we both came back on the 31st. And, but my flight was like five or six hours earlier. So I went back to get our car. You you probably remember that big red convertible, which we put the white hearts on for the wedding. And anyway, so I got our car and went back to the airport and then Andrea, you know, took her.

Katharine McLennan (29:47)

yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Absolutely, yep. That's so funny.

Volker Schmidt (29:58)

I think almost three hours after the plane arrived and I couldn't find out whether she's on the plane or not because we didn't have mobile phones back then. And she finally showed up in tears and they had taken everything she had apart and basically told her and shortened her visa from six months to three months and basically told her the only way to stay in the country would be if they get married.

the next one I already mentioned, you know, I didn't make part at BCG, which turned out to be a good choice. And then I managed private equity funds for 16 years. And then, you know, I'm a grandfather now that was unplanned as well for eight years

My son was 19 years old when he got twins. And him today, he would say that's the best thing that happened to him in his life, full stop.

is that, you know, if you should more think about what you want to do for the next two years rather than what you want to be doing 20 years from

Katharine McLennan (30:50)

Amen. Amen to that. But I love, but I thought the responsibility or maybe call, maybe it's calling Laura. can pick a word that you have in the back of your mind to go back and what changes, and hopefully this current strange environment will shift back. But what changes in the last couple of months in your view of being European?

Laura (30:52)

I appreciate that.

Mmm.

Katharine McLennan (31:17)

and the identity that calls.

Laura (31:20)

Mmm.

Volker Schmidt (31:20)

Can I

add a question to that? Laura, you're telling your perspective, I would also like to hear on what is the, atmosphere is not right word, kind of the common sense. What is the talking, like the discussions, like what is the view of the broader GSB community on what's happening right now in the US? Is this like very clear cut or is it like you got the full range or is there, I would be really interested in hearing that.

Katharine McLennan (31:21)

Yeah! Go!

Great question.

Laura (31:44)

It is,

Katharine McLennan (31:46)

Mmm.

Laura (31:46)

I would love to give a more nuanced view. think one is, interestingly enough, it is quite unpolitical on campus, which is very interesting. There's actually some restraints talk about politics and I'd be very curious to hear whether that's kind of the GSB or whether that has shifted as some of the political and socioeconomic tides have been become a little chaffer over the years.

Katharine McLennan (31:53)

Mmm. Mmm.

Laura (32:12)

Because I think that could be one aspect that people are almost afraid to share different perspectives because the climate is so heated already and you don't want to be adding oil to the fire. So I think that is one issue. One class that I've thoroughly enjoyed is with Keith Hennessey. I don't know if he was teaching back in the day, he, well, probably not because he was in the White House. So he was under the Bush administration and he comes now and teaches a variety of classes. But I took one class with him and it was

Katharine McLennan (32:30)

yes.

Laura (32:38)

a phenomenal class because it was doing exactly what I think we're missing in today's world is discussing all of these different things, but very much from a non-emotional or a content driven perspective, trying to bring in all the different voices and really looking at why are we disagreeing? Are we disagreeing on a values perspective, on an implementation perspective? What is it we disagreeing on? And you can usually find that on core people align in a lot of things.

Katharine McLennan (32:52)

Mm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Laura (33:06)

but it's usually on like, do we get there that they are more divided? And that's because how they see the world, what beliefs they internalized on what works and what doesn't work. But that is such a force to bring people back together from being more polarized because you realize we're not bad people. We are not that fundamentally misaligned. We just have different beliefs on like how to make things work. Now, that'll still work. That needs to be done. But I think it is so much more

Katharine McLennan (33:11)

Mm.

Hmm.

Laura (33:36)

heartwarming and better to just realize that we actually do have kind of common ground. So that's something where I think I have enjoyed that class much. I think it's, so I did fiscal policy, which doesn't really realize that that has anything to do with that, but he teaches policy time, freedom, democracy, capitalism, so a range of classes, which kind of get you to think about these issues from just different lenses, whether it's like a fiscal lens or a more democratic lens.

Katharine McLennan (33:41)

Mm.

Volker Schmidt (33:45)

What's a class called?

Katharine McLennan (33:55)

Hmm?

Volker Schmidt (34:03)

There a study like 10 years after our graduation, we were asked, what was the, I think many classes were asked, like 10 years after graduation, with hindsight, what was the class that was most in your career? And the winner back then was power and politics.

I had that class. It was very amazing. It was very helpful and interesting.

Katharine McLennan (34:24)

I miss that.

I would have missed that completely. I'm going to go history because not only living in West Berlin and West Germany in the 70s, late 70s and early 80s. Volker, you're in Munich and what are you seeing? What's the shift now in the great European politics that

We are seeing emerging. mean, I was actually in Brussels right before business school, working at the formation of the European community. And so I'm fascinated with what's going to happen now. I mean, do you have any ideas about, first of all, how it affects business, for example?

Volker Schmidt (35:03)

Well, how are effects business? I just describe what's happening right now seems like what's happening right now might be a chance for Europe to actually getting closer together, which is quite the opposite of what some people are trying to make it. But we are basically forced to cooperate more and obviously there's a lot going into defense now.

Katharine McLennan (35:05)

No.

Volker Schmidt (35:30)

We'll see how all this plays out, but there's a lot of dynamics right now regarding the European Union, probably becoming more like a military union in some way. But this really depends a lot on how things are going to develop over the next one to two years. So this whole Ukraine war, cetera, the impact on business is, I think, mixed. There's so many other factors going into that that...

Laura (35:32)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Katharine McLennan (35:46)

Well, it's fascinating.

Volker Schmidt (35:55)

You know, the, this could go any direction, basically, you know, I mean, you can see it at the US stock market right now. Every time we hear some new ideas and stories and back and forth on the tariffs, know, Wall Street goes down and, know, and then they say, okay, we'll postpone for another month. It goes up against, that's crazy. But in, you

Katharine McLennan (36:01)

Anyway.

Laura (36:16)

What I would hope though is,

because I know the signals are mixed with regards to kind of business and I know you talked about the military. My really big hope from this is, and I think it goes back to your question, Catherine, what is it like to be European and what is kind of the hope for the future in that regard is there's a lot of angst and confusion around what is happening right now. But I would really hope that this is taken as an opportunity to also fundamentally rethink

What do we want Europe to stand for and what do we want Europe to be like? And for me, that question is one of diversity is so celebrated and it's a strength and it's not a weakness and it has a place, which I think is something, you know, not just in the US, also in Europe and many other parts of the world we see as kind of going against. But this is my fundamental core belief. made big development and stride towards that in the past. And I would like to see that further. And I Europe lends itself so well to that.

Katharine McLennan (36:54)

Mm-hmm.

Laura (37:13)

to embody that because we are different countries all kind of come together and we are melting pot naturally. We move, we're closer, we travel, we speak different languages. Somebody the other day was like, yeah, you guys like speak so many different languages, right? We're like, yeah, because we're just so close together. So it makes sense. So I speak like three to four languages and it's, know, in the US everyone is very amazed by that. In Europe, that is totally normal. Nothing special whatsoever.

Katharine McLennan (37:17)

Mmm. Mmm.

Laura (37:38)

But I really hope for you to just take this as a chance and as an opportunity and take some of the American optimism and kind of vision that we can create whatever we want with our future at this point. And maybe we can also take this as an opportunity to become stronger in the business realm, to create our own hubs or strengthen them because we have them in many regards, but strengthen them with regards to VC funding, entrepreneurship to become really that part.

and not just rely on the US for that. Now, still a partner, still be a bridge between those. And that's something I love to be kind of in that role, to be a bridge between those nations, between those systems, between countries and languages. But I would really hope that it's not just that these developments are not just viewed from a angst perspective, but also from an opportunities perspective. And that's something that

has been so core to my learning at the GSB and then in the West Coast and Silicon Valley broadly.

Katharine McLennan (38:34)

Laura, represent, I studied history in the Cold War and ended up, know, mainly because I grew up in it, but you represent what year were you born? 1996. Fantastic. Okay. So you're a little bit after my favorite, unbelievable day in history, which was November 9th, November 11th.

Laura (38:40)

Mmm

1996.

Volker Schmidt (38:50)

Same as my son.

Laura (38:51)

there you go.

Katharine McLennan (39:03)

1989. And I still get tears when I think about that. I just think it's I think it's extraordinary. So your life represents unbelievable changes, you know, and Poland as well. From from where it was able to come to where it is now, you know, and Berlin being similar, maybe mini Silicon Valley.

Laura (39:04)

Hmm.

Katharine McLennan (39:31)

And coming from East Berlin, I tell you, in 2014, I got to go back and I walked under the Brandenburg tour for, I don't know, 100 times in tears. 100 times in tears. So what a great chance. But now here you are, emerging into a world with such great things and also this AI thing. How does that affect?

Laura (39:41)

you

Mm-hmm.

Katharine McLennan (39:56)

What what do you guys conceptualize cuz we were trying to get her head around the internet you guys are trying to get your head around this weird dimension.

Laura (40:06)

Hmm. It's so interesting because I think there's kind of for me, there's like two forces that are at play, which is one is it is what the mainstream says, like fundamentally AI will change everything, every part of your life, every profession, like no life will be untouched by AI. And on the other side, there's this, I don't know where it comes from, this inner side where like I absolutely don't like following the mainstream. So if everyone is hyping this one TV show, I will not watch it until the hype is over.

So that is kind of what I see a little bit play, but I know that I can't run away from it. But it needs to be embraced, even if that is a little bit of a hype in a mainstream and it is in a bubble in some senses. I think...

One thing is like to think about what is, what is I really changing? So I think one aversion towards this hype is coming from the fact that everything is now being called AI just because that is attracting capital. And every company is an AI company and people stop asking, but what does this company actually do? What is the value that is providing? What is the impact it is making? But it's just an AI company. That is, I think that is one thing we as

Katharine McLennan (41:06)

until.

Laura (41:11)

investors as entrepreneurs, as society, as people just engaging with the topic need to kind of overcome a little bit and not calling everything just an AI company, but still refocus on what is the core value proposition in that, even if it is leveraging AI to some sense. So I think that is a very important distinguishing factor to just keep in mind. The other is, mean, it is really changing everything. I mean, I heard you guys, you know, guys barely had the internet, emails, phones.

And for us, it's now you use AI or, know, chat, GBT or quad or whatever, like large angle model you want to use for nearly everything. So whether it's like planning your next spring break trip or your paper or trying to understand what a crammed down scenario of financial structuring is. like you really use it for like everything or like drafting your emails, writing your talks. So it is truly used for everything. We're just fascinating.

Katharine McLennan (42:03)

It is fascinating because we were still in paper and calculators almost. So, Volker, take us back 30 years ago because this, you know, this thing almost is in parallel. We weren't quite at that stage saying everybody's an internet company, but it came pretty fast through 1995 to 2000 before the dot com bust. What do you remember?

Volker Schmidt (42:08)

.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah, just

wanted, yeah, basically in 95, mean, when we graduated, know, Amazon didn't exist yet. That was founded in 96. So the e-commerce business really hadn't taken off much, you know. One of our classmates founded eBay, or was one of the co-founders of eBay.

Laura (42:38)

Wow.

Volker Schmidt (42:41)

Jeff Skoll and then later went into making movies. He was sitting next to me in that class. think he, back then he said, well, he wants to tell stories to the world, which he ended up doing eventually. He solved that independently rich issue first. Anyway, I think everything was a bit overhyped, which led to the new economy bubble.

Laura (42:51)

Hehehe.

Katharine McLennan (42:55)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

Volker Schmidt (43:04)

And I think there's some parallels there. you look at, I mean, the current valuations on the stock markets, are only, the last time they were higher than what they are now in terms of, know, it doesn't really matter what kind of multiples you look at, was basically shortly before the new economy bubble. so there is, you know, we're certainly seeing some hype there.

Laura (43:24)

I

Volker Schmidt (43:29)

And eventually, a lot of these things will not play out. But on the other hand, there's so much other stuff or so much on the broad area. Like internet 2.0, I think it was called when finally all these, it wasn't just an AI company, but it did have a business case that makes sense, et cetera. Obviously, e-commerce and stuff like that was also driven by the penetration. It's kind of a little bit like that as well, I guess, with AI.

Katharine McLennan (43:45)

yes, yes.

Volker Schmidt (43:55)

Once it's, it's not just the early adapters, but everyone is using it. You know, that opens up for new business models with like huge customer bases, et cetera. So we will see it. It will be in all kinds of areas, which we don't even think about right now. You know, I'm not an AI expert, but my son has an AI company that he basically implements. He optimizes processes in Middelstrand's companies.

Katharine McLennan (44:09)

That's it.

Volker Schmidt (44:18)

I'm using AI. So I go jogging with him every Saturday and he gives me an update on the latest developments. That's where I get my Nosh fun.

Katharine McLennan (44:25)

Isn't that amazing?

It's truly amazing. And Laura, the way you guys even become, well, act as students with AI, because I've talked to a number of you, and Stanford has embraced using AI through all your studies and all your, well, that's probably why they don't have exams, you guys. But do you think it brings, if you compare your studies before you went to BCG and now,

Laura (44:40)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Katharine McLennan (44:53)

Does

it bring creativity to the way the studies are done, the way you communicate, the way you conclude? I mean, we had case studies and it took us forever to read the case studies. So if GPT reads it for you, it sounds like you have a lot more space for conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great question.

Laura (45:01)

Mmm.

Okay.

Volker Schmidt (45:08)

Does it bring does it bring more efficiency or more creativity?

Laura (45:16)

That's a really good question and...

Volker Schmidt (45:18)

or does the

efficiency provides you time to use for creativity. That will be the ideal scenario.

Laura (45:22)

I think there's a mix in between

Katharine McLennan (45:22)

Perfect, perfect.

Laura (45:24)

for sure. think it does provide, I mean, the efficiency is undeniable. know, whether it's the example you just mentioned around, you feed it the case that it reads it for you because truthfully told, some of the case audio is very lengthy and you can usually get the gist in two, you can usually get the gist in the two sides or like pages that are provided. I understand the premise that is, you you have to sift through a lot of.

Katharine McLennan (45:38)

Yes!

Laura (45:49)

The premise of getting these longer case studies is that in the real world, you have a lot of information and information overload and complexity that you need to sift through. But hence, I think it actually is a great use of AI in that regard because we have AI now. So in the real world also, you will do the same thing. You will be able to use large language models to pass down through the complexity. So you're kind of using school also in that way to train that a little bit. So it's definitely giving you efficiency. The same with

answering emails, think the amount of emails we have to respond to and answer in these day and age is absolutely crazy. think I'm not even working, know, waking up to 50 emails every single day. Not of all of them who need an active response, but even just sifting through that, think AI can be huge leverage, efficiency, respondents, et cetera. The second is in terms of creativity. I think it's definitely great in terms of coming up with like initial ideas and spurring initial ideas.

giving you maybe like a list to think about or enhancing some of your skills. I'm not a great writer, so it is great to kind of use that and feed it some of it to make my writing better, frankly. The other is it is, you know, it is making space for creativity. I think one risk or one thing that I'm definitely at fault on as well as though you tend to over rely on it and outsource almost everything to it because you can.

Katharine McLennan (46:55)

Mm. Mm.

Mmm. Mmm.

Laura (47:10)

you almost don't give yourself them the time to just think and be bad at things and just, you know, just like write something out and knowing that this is not going to be like super great or just, you know, like coming up just like with random ideas that maybe the I haven't thought of about or that isn't super popular because in the end it is just taking ideas because it is a probabilistic model in the end. So it is just taking something that is already very common and often.

written or thought of and in the data, but you may come up with something that isn't as common of a thread and you may not have that if you just constantly rely on the AI. So I think that's kind of, you know, if you're keeping the balance and the pros and cons.

Katharine McLennan (47:51)

that you to realize that as a grandfather vocal what's your you know you're seeing your son with the company what do you think about this new phase you can almost compare it to nineteen ninety five and a strange way.

Volker Schmidt (48:06)

Yeah, like I say, I think it will get, know, lot of hype is in there, but on the other hand, there's so many applications, you know, it will become part of our life, you know, for everyone. Just like everyone is using social media now, which wouldn't have happened without the internet. And, you know, in the beginning, everyone was thinking e-commerce and information, et cetera. So there's so many other business models around the internet, you know, which a lot of them only came after the bubble. And I think you will see the same.

Katharine McLennan (48:19)

yeah, social media. Yep.

Yep. Failure after failure.

Volker Schmidt (48:35)

with AI. Some stuff is overhyped, but there is so many broad applications which I base. I'm amazed. The story is really tells me on how quickly, especially the implementation. My son tells me that programming anything right now takes maybe one third or fourth of the time it took one half years ago.

And it's like, really, and it's in all kind of areas. And he's doing all kind of projects. And typically, these projects, like it my old thinking, if you had a software project like this, it was like, I don't know, a three-month project. Now we're talking about a week or two, like three days for a minimum viable product. And it's, know.

Katharine McLennan (49:15)

Oof. Oof.

Volker Schmidt (49:19)

Just to give you an idea, you know, was talking to, there was one guy who was buying one apartment a week and he was like, you know, refurbishing it like high end in Mallorca and then selling it to, you know, expats, et cetera, would use as second home. But all the sourcing for the apartments he would do on WhatsApp. But that meant that, you know, all the initial discussions. he, and he would only buy one out of 30 apartments he's offered.

Laura (49:34)

Wow.

Volker Schmidt (49:47)

But all the initial discussions are over WhatsApp. So he would actually see and his two employees would spend three to four hours a day on WhatsApp, you know, just discussing with the people where that will be an apartment they would want to buy. And eventually they would go for a visit. And they'd been doing this for like nine months. And, you know, when he told that to Julian, Julian said, why don't you give me your phone? You know, if you've been doing this for nine months, you only, I just download your, your communication trail and we use an AI to train.

Katharine McLennan (50:03)

Wow.

Volker Schmidt (50:16)

We train an AI based on that. basically, and then you can have the AI answering your WhatsApp and it will flag for you when it's seeing this is the point where you would typically suggest going for a meeting. And he said, you know, let's give it a try. And basically, you know, so he loads it down, you know, they send them a prototype two days later. And another three days later, that guy calls and says, you know, this,

Katharine McLennan (50:30)

So let it rip.

Volker Schmidt (50:45)

AI is doing this better than my two employees do. You know, I put them on a halftime job now and, you know, it's just saving 90 % of the time.

Laura (50:48)

Hmm.

Katharine McLennan (50:52)

And

Laura (50:52)

Fascinating.

Katharine McLennan (50:53)

the elusive goal is we've got to have more time with family and friends and go windsurf, kite surfing. Laura, mean, I don't know. see, yet, yet, yet.

Laura (51:02)

Which I have to learn, I can't quite serve, maybe yet,

yet, growth mindset. It is, I mean, it's so fascinating what you described, right? And it goes right at the core of what, you know, why we call this the next revolution. And it truly is, I think it will fundamentally change how we do a lot of things. And I am very excited by that. I'm very excited by that, because I think it can give people

Katharine McLennan (51:19)

Mm. Mm. Mm.

Laura (51:29)

A lot of meaning, you know, it's beautiful to like be part of that creation or, you know, as, your son is. And I think that is fundamentally so exciting. I'm also very conscious of what that means for, you know, my kids. If I, if when I have them and how I bring them into this world and think about how do we learn differently, but also different skills they need to acquire that we didn't have to acquire, which is around.

Katharine McLennan (51:43)

Mmm.

Laura (51:55)

You know, when I, I remember still when I was in primary school, when I was trying to digest information, I was doing this from books. Then you had to learn how to get information from the internet and make sure that it's a truthful and trustworthy source. Now we have to do the same thing when we think about AI. And the most prominent example for me is, you know, on social media, when suddenly you don't really know what of that is actually real, what isn't real, what is, to what extent is, Photoshopped or created by an AI or not.

Katharine McLennan (52:01)

Mm-hmm.

Laura (52:22)

So far, the challenge for many of my generation, is Gen Z, is you're comparing yourself to people who have a filter or who have a perfect life that they show on Instagram. Now, if you put another layer on top of that with AI, where it's not just like you're comparing yourself to a great human being, but you're comparing yourself to a AI-generated being that you could possibly never recreate because it isn't real.

Katharine McLennan (52:46)

I love it.

Mmm.

Laura (52:52)

does that mean? You know, what do we need to think about as in my generation, but also, you know, above me, below me, how do we, how do we manage that? How do we teach this to our kids, to others, and how can we use this great resource that AI is and the efficiencies we can get from that, but also manage the downside risk of that. And what is, what is the effect on, you know, kind of mental health and how we.

fundamentally interact as human beings.

Katharine McLennan (53:21)

Laura.

Volker Schmidt (53:22)

like the average, I don't know what the stats are, but probably average use of social media is for an 18 year old is like three hours. That's one of the negative side effects of the internet, obviously. And it comes with higher rate of depression, higher rate of suicides, you know, all this stuff, because they, what you say is really a problem that they, you know, they compare themselves with, you know, everyone only posts the great things on the internet and that's what people see and they believe, you know, and just

Katharine McLennan (53:32)

Wow, wow.

Laura (53:49)

And now they

don't even need to do the great things. You know, they don't need to have to fit body or anything because they can just create that by AI. And that's just something to be conscious about. think with anything, you with any great, you know, you always have a downside riff of any invention or any evasion that you have. And I think the tone of here is not to say we should ban that, but it's just to think about, because I think that's something maybe Europe is sometimes a little bit quick compared to.

Volker Schmidt (53:49)

I'm not sure if it's getting... I'm not sure if it's getting...

Yeah.

Yeah.

Laura (54:14)

to the US, we're to kind of ban and like put in regulation, but it's more around what skills do we need to develop? What do we need to kind of, what framework, what systems, what support systems do we need to manage that risk effectively?

Volker Schmidt (54:26)

just wanting interesting sort of whether actually this is like, you know, I haven't thought about this before, but it just comes to my mind. You know, actually the whole, what you just raised, you know, with AI, these things get intensified in some way. But at the other hand, it, you know, with now where you don't know whether this is AI, whether this is manipulated, whether this is fake, et cetera.

Katharine McLennan (54:38)

Mm.

Volker Schmidt (54:47)

The issue that you can't take for granted anymore what you see on the internet, it might be all fake, might actually soften the problem a little bit because you're not comparing yourself to what you believe to be the reality, but to something that you know is not the reality, you know, to a certain degree, which might actually, you know,

Katharine McLennan (54:58)

Mmm.

Laura (54:59)

TRIPPY!

Katharine McLennan (55:01)

Mmm. Mmm.

Laura (55:04)

Mm.

Volker Schmidt (55:07)

eventually lead to people not looking at this anymore because it's all made up anyway.

Katharine McLennan (55:12)

what's interesting also about our classes is we span four generations. I don't know where you were Volker, but at the, in our class, we were at the cusp. Some of us were baby boomers. Some of us then became into generation X. You're the same Laura. Okay. Okay. So there you go. And Laura, you guys are at the cusp of generation Y to generation Z. So.

Volker Schmidt (55:26)

I just turned 60, so I'm a baby boomer.

Katharine McLennan (55:37)

Why don't we together do a sociological profile in, again, five words or less? So if we're baby boomers, I'm definitely at the cusp, right at the cusp, 1967. okay, so what happens in the shift of the baby boomer to me, Volker, within that couple of years? What's the shift? Where do you go, sociologically, how you live your life in five words or less? What do see?

Volker Schmidt (56:04)

in differences between me and like five years later.

Well, I would be hard to point out any differences. Actually, it would be easier for me to answer that question for the situation Laura's in, like from the big, from the, why does that? Because that's where my daughter is in. She's born in 99 and she explains to me and she is, she's doing her second undergraduate studies. So what she, what she didn't realize when she did this, so first she did geography and now she does computer science.

Katharine McLennan (56:16)

Yeah, yep. Yep.

Yes, there you go.

Laura (56:28)

Wow.

Volker Schmidt (56:34)

The only thing she overlooked was, she didn't consider it, was that if she does a second undergraduate, pretty much everyone else in class will be three to four years younger than she is. 25 and she has a real hard time to connect to 21 year who are born like three or four basic people who grew up with the internet.

this is so complete, the different mindset mentality, like someone in 2003, she just has trouble to connect with these people and she just had to understand those. And they have like totally different values. Like she often complains, she's trying to find the classmates who are like 25 years and older because she's like, she really feels it makes a big difference in the discussions that she has with them.

Laura (57:03)

Hmm.

Hmm

Katharine McLennan (57:23)

Laura so what's that is a good question so you represent the emerging generation said as vocal and i say it's a generation z what is it about your generation that is gonna shift from the generation why.

Laura (57:37)

I'm trying to think of an example that doesn't just involve going from skinny to baggy jeans. Because I think that is definitely one.

Katharine McLennan (57:46)

Don't worry,

you'll be back to skinny.

Volker Schmidt (57:46)

We went from

wide to straight when I was young.

Katharine McLennan (57:50)

Ha ha!

There you go. The perfect measure. Go ahead.

Laura (57:52)

We'll be back.

We'll be back. one is, there's a definite, I think in my generation, that still very much embodies the attunement with the diverse facets a human fundamentally has. And whether that's from a gender perspective, whether that's from an ethnic perspective, a social background perspective, country perspective, you know, any shapes in between. So I think that is something that is just...

Katharine McLennan (58:04)

Yes. Yes.

Laura (58:17)

I can just feel that at least in our generation, it's very, very fundamentally core. It's a very, the leaves that we kind of grew up with, that our diverse facets are, they exist and they're beautiful and they're to be embraced. And there's something to bring together to the table to kind of, so that one plus one doesn't equal two or three.

Katharine McLennan (58:30)

Hmm.

Volker Schmidt (58:37)

you say our generation, you're not talking about, that's not including the people who are like in their early twenties now, or even in today's teenagers.

Laura (58:45)

I guess

not. think I've never really thought as much in this generational boxes as much. I think I'm kind of somewhere between millennial and Gen Z. And it depends just what I feel like on the day. Because I think especially because I think there's so much more than the generation, especially when you grow up cross countries and you go to different countries. So you could be even of the same generation and have totally different experiences.

Katharine McLennan (59:07)

Yes, of course.

Laura (59:13)

and understanding of the self and of society. And you could be a very disparate generations and come back in the same country and also have a very different understanding. I think there's, I don't think I've ever really identified with a very specific generation. think one that is still very much prevalent in many, what I see around kind of the people that I work with or around with at the GSB, but I-

I don't know if that's also like the GSB bias is this real intense wanting willingness to work hard but still have like a life beyond work. So it is, I know for a lot of kind of baby boomers or, you know, it was like just work and like no life. And I think there has been a transition towards more life. But I think more life also means to align work more with what we want our life legacy to be like. So I think what I, I think sometimes there is

I don't know whether that pertains to our generation, the generation kind of after us, but it's that there's an unwillingness to work. But I think that is fundamentally, at least not what I see in my, and again, I think there's a bias around proximity bias and who you surrounding yourself with. what I perceive, at least at the GSB, is there's such a willingness to create, people work incredibly hard.

Katharine McLennan (1:00:16)

course.

Laura (1:00:24)

many of my classmates building their own startups or working, so running their companies alongside a full-time study of 40 hours. is anything else than to try to optimize for not working. But I think there's a greater sense of trying to align work and your values and your life in a way. So I think that's definitely of it.

Katharine McLennan (1:00:27)

Hmm.

OK, so the end of the conversation. Laura, what can we baby boomers and Generation X offer to your generation, do you think?

Laura (1:00:51)

Sad.

I mean, in terms of offer, mean, obviously so much, you know, wisdom, experience, and probably also just a little bit of chill and coolness, because you've seen it, you're not as frantic about some of the things that me maybe get because you've seen them before. think my big, I don't know if it's a request, but I hope that I have is to really keep embracing a global mindset.

Katharine McLennan (1:01:22)

Mmm.

Laura (1:01:22)

I think, it doesn't

really matter in what part of the world we are or what segment or industry, whether it's climate or AI or healthcare, pretty much none of the big problems we face and people want to solve can be solved alone or within the parameters of a country that mind you, is just artificially put on a map, right? It is not a physical force or a biological constituent.

It's really just embracing that global mindset, believing that we need to work together across boundaries and countries to really make those changes happen. And that we're stronger for it. That it's not a kind of, you know, a lesser evil, but it was actually a greater force for good if we do so.

Katharine McLennan (1:02:10)

Laura, need you. my gosh. Okay, Volker, you get to tie everything up by offering the 60 something hope. How about that?

Volker Schmidt (1:02:12)

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, well, think Laura's speech was probably great for famous last words. And I was trying to chime in there basically saying, I view myself as being part of generation, or my preferred generation would be generation, why not?

Laura (1:02:28)

Hahaha.

Hahaha.

Katharine McLennan (1:02:39)

I love that.

Volker Schmidt (1:02:40)

And it's like, you know,

it can't be done or it's not possible, et cetera. And, know, and every generation has this, you know, sense of, you know, why not? And challenging the status quo and challenging why things aren't possible or challenging why it's not feasible to actually, you know, get the act together worldwide and do some global effort for climate control, et cetera. And, you know, seeing that there's people in, you know, in

Katharine McLennan (1:03:02)

Hmm.

Volker Schmidt (1:03:06)

in many places in the world. It's obviously an always-selected community, but I a lot of these groups who are really trying to make a difference. There's this famous quote, I don't know who it was for, but to encourage Laura to keep going. Kassim, maybe you know, someone once said, never doubt that a small group of people can change the direction of the world. Actually, it's the only thing that ever has.