Stanford MBA: From Baby Boomer to Gen Z | Class of ‘95 Meets Class of ‘25

Podcast Ep. 10 Stanford MBA ’95 Pam Fox Rollin meets MBA ’25 Pragati Rastogi

• Katharine McLennan • Season 1 • Episode 10

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🎙️ Today, I’m joined by Pam Fox Rollin from the Stanford MBA Class of 1995 and Pragati Rastogi from the Class of 2025.

Pam is a renowned executive coach and strategist, partnering with C-level leaders and top teams to drive bold, integrated change. With deep roots in healthcare, strategy, and leadership development, Pam brings a rare mix of analytical precision and human insight to the world’s most complex organizations.

Pragati is a second-year MBA student and former strategy consultant who has worked across India, the Middle East, and Africa to expand healthcare access. At Stanford, she’s leading a Global Study Trip to Taiwan and Singapore focused on healthcare equity, while exploring how technology and AI are reshaping the sector.

Together, we explore how healthcare has evolved over the last 30 years, how today’s students are redefining leadership, and what it really means to integrate strategy, humanity, and meaning in a rapidly shifting world.


00:00 Introduction and Busy Lives

03:58 Global Study Trips: Exploring Healthcare Innovations

07:00 Healthcare Perspectives: Learning from Taiwan and Singapore

09:59 Personal Journeys: From India to Stanford

13:12 Bio Design: Integrating Healthcare and Innovation

16:09 Passion and Pressure: Navigating Career Choices

19:00 Leadership and Coaching: Shaping Future Leaders

22:13 Multi-Generational Learning: Bridging the Gap

25:03 Conclusion: Embracing Change and Serendipity

32:26 The Evolution of Technology Adoption

33:58 AI in Education and Business

36:46 The Human Element in Leadership

39:56 Integrating Soft Skills with AI

41:34 Navigating Political Conversations

46:45 The Role of Leadership in a Changing World

50:52 Building Bridges Through Dialogue

53:57 Ethics and Values in Business Decisions

58:24 The Future of Board Governance

01:03:04 New Chapter

Join the Podcast Series
Stanford MBA: From Baby Boomer to Gen Z | Class of ‘95 Meets Class of ‘25

Each of these episodes will feature a different pair of Stanford MBA people -- one from the class of 1995, and one from the class of 2025.

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📺 Also available on YouTube:
Entire series playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSaVisoF0D_GKxVmHmakNxdpAJCb5_VTP

More info: https://www.katharinemclennan.com/

Contact: kath@katharinemclennan.com


Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katharinemclennan/

Note: this transcript is generated by AI, so it won’t always be perfect, especially when it comes to: 

·        Incorrect breaks in a sentence (AI hears the pause and assumes a new sentence)

·        Exact word recognition – you may see that there are words that don’t make sense from time to time

 

Katharine McLennan (01:03)

Today I'm joined by Pam Fox-Rollin from the Stanford MBA class of 1995 and Pragati Rastogi from the class of 2025. Pam is a renowned executive coach and strategist, partnering with C-suite level leaders and top teams to drive bold integrated change. With deep roots in healthcare, strategy, and leadership development, Pam brings a rare mix of analytical precision and human insight.

to the world's most complex organizations. Pragati is a second year MBA student and former strategy consultant who has worked across India, the Middle East and Africa to expand healthcare access. At Stanford, she's leading a global study trip to Taiwan and Singapore focused on healthcare equity while exploring how technology and AI are reshaping the sector. Together in this podcast, we explore how healthcare

has evolved over the last 30 years, how today's students are redefining leadership, and what it really means to integrate strategy, humanity, and meaning in a rapidly shifting world.

Katharine McLennan (02:13)

This is Kath where we have Pam and Pragati and it's so great to have you guys here. Where do we find you Pragati at the moment? I'm trying to think. It's Tuesday so you're in class or around class. No free day. Although I don't think you guys have a free day on Wednesday, but where are you? Tell us.

Pragati Rastogi (02:21)

Thank

Yeah, I'm actually the library GSB in between classes right now. Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (02:39)

Yay. Yep.

And is it a full day? Let us live through your day on a Tuesday at GSB.

Pragati Rastogi (02:47)

Oh,

it's a really busy day. So I got up at 6 a.m. to do my assignments. I finished a class. And after this, I have a meditation class across the street. And then I have a few job interviews lined up and then I'm leading a GST in the spring. So I have a three hour session on the global study trip with the first year students in the evening. So it's a pretty packed day.

Katharine McLennan (02:57)

Fantastic!

Great.

Ugh.

Okay, you have to explain. These are new acronyms, GST. So tell me about that because I know you guys are doing these and we did not have these. Tell us.

Pragati Rastogi (03:18)

Oh, okay. I didn't know that it exists.

wow. OK, so GSD stands for a global study trip. it's a mandatory, so it's one of the requirements at Stanford that you need to do a global element of your degree. most of us do a GSD. It's basically a 10-day program where in the spring break or one of the breaks, you go to a different country, you explore a particular theme, and you meet the who's who of the country across. So my team, so I'm leading one this year, and our topic is how do you achieve health care?

Katharine McLennan (03:28)

Okay.

Okay.

Pam Fox Rollin (03:39)

you

Pragati Rastogi (03:53)

equity and access and we're going to Taiwan and Singapore and we're meeting the Ministry of Health, we're meeting big hospital chains, private equity, NGOs, we're meeting people all across the spectrum in these two countries. So it's really exciting. Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (03:57)

Wow.

Now, hold on a second.

So you're leading it, right? So how do you, how does that come about?

Pragati Rastogi (04:11)

Yes.

So last year, my first year, I attended one. I attended one in Japan last year. And then after you attend the GST, you can pitch a GST for your second year. So you form a group of students. You form a group of five. And then you pitch that I want to do a GST in this country. And then there's a whole application process. And it's a competitive process where many groups pitch. And then the administration selects a few GSTs that are worth running. And then we start the process there and start leading one.

Katharine McLennan (04:40)

Okay, so how do you guys come with this topic and that geography, just out of curiosity? Is that a line with-

Pragati Rastogi (04:49)

Yeah, no, actually, basically, what happens is most of the GSTs have a unit out of theme. And I come from a background in healthcare and last year, we didn't have any healthcare focused trips. So was like, I want to do something healthcare focused. So I said, let's, let's do one. Because I want to learn more about healthcare and I'm interested in this country. So can we do a GST to this country and I found other people. Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (04:59)

okay.

Of course!

Pam, just, you know, I know we had a few global trips, but I am amazed by the perspectives, the global perspectives that you have. Where do we find you, Pam? What's up?

Pragati Rastogi (05:21)

Yes.

Pam Fox Rollin (05:24)

You

find me very close to Stanford in Sunny, Sunnyvale, California. And Progety, I, you know, I wrote down a few things that you mentioned because it was so evocative of things that I did. First of all, library. So our library had books. It's a little different now, but our library had books and my favorite librarian was Brian. And.

As I was going to do what was then called a Smith, but you still have them, it's nonprofit internships that are paid for by the, with board source, the national center for nonprofit boards. I was tasked, I found right before I go with designing and basically an internet presence strategy. It was like the first internet. So I talked with Brian and I said, help me. He showed me mosaic.

Katharine McLennan (05:56)

yes. Yes.

Pam Fox Rollin (06:17)

I was blown away. I did this internet presence strategy for them. And then I came back and Steve Jurvetson and Dave Zinman and I created the net surfing network and we did lunch and learns for our classmates on what you can do with the internet.

Katharine McLennan (06:31)

No.

Pam, that is so funny. I was like, knew there was something and I suddenly got a flashback being in the computer lab of Pam excitedly telling me about this thing called Mosaic, which, Branti, like this. It was the first version of what is it? Google search or something like that. became. Yeah, browser.

Pragati Rastogi (06:40)

Bye.

Wow.

Pam Fox Rollin (06:58)

Browser. Browser. A visual.

Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (07:01)

Yeah, I forget Pam, you are the one because so what makes that fascinating with these conversations I'm having is the year we graduated 1995 was the year that Mosaic became Netscape and listed on the stock exchange, I believe. And that was for me a turning point to let's enter the information age because we can get it on the Internet. And so here you guys are.

Pragati Rastogi (07:05)

you

Katharine McLennan (07:27)

you're entering a new age 30 years later, we're double your age. And so I'm fascinated with how that's going to come about. But tell us about the health care perspective and what you guys, what do you, what's the question you're asking that you really want to understand with this group?

Pragati Rastogi (07:44)

So for the study trip itself, our question is how businesses and governments can work together to help to achieve universal healthcare coverage. And the goal is how do you use innovation? And again, it's a lot about how do you think about AI and healthcare? How do you think about technology and healthcare? And how do you, how are companies and businesses doing it today? And Taiwan and Singapore are one of the best healthcare metrics in the world. So we're like, let's go and learn from the best and see what they're doing right and what we can learn.

Katharine McLennan (08:14)

Wow, okay, yeah, that kind of blows my mind as well. So yeah.

Pam Fox Rollin (08:19)

Yeah, because I don't, I think you know, Katha, I, so when I left the GSB, I went to do healthcare corporate strategy and that was a long time ago. And so, and my work is still about 60 % healthcare and Prageti, you and your folks have been killing it the last couple years with all the healthcare content. And thank you for inviting alums. I have loved seeing the

Katharine McLennan (08:27)

That's it! That's it!

Pam Fox Rollin (08:48)

Enterprises coming out of the startups coming out of the GSB that relate to healthcare. When I was at the women's dinner last year, the Wim banquet, there were so many people who were going to go do women's health, digital health for the summer. I'm just blown away by everything you guys are doing.

Pragati Rastogi (08:57)

Bye.

Katharine McLennan (09:06)

Pam, that's so funny. I didn't remember that. Now it's all crashing back 30 years ago. Gosh. how did, Parvati, how did you come into Stanford? What were you up to before you arrived at these beautiful California shores?

Pragati Rastogi (09:22)

Yeah, so I actually am from India and I worked at Bain for four years in India and Dubai in healthcare mostly. And after that I moved to Geneva where I worked at Kavi. So it was with the WHO and UNICEF during the pandemic. And then I was working, I was doing global health over there and then I was like, okay, I think healthcare impact is interesting, but I can't do it from the nonprofit side. I want for-profit.

But I don't know what this intersection looks like, so let me do an MBA and then we'll figure it out. So that's what actually got me here.

Katharine McLennan (09:52)

god you say you were in Geneva during covid and what was right were you guys addressing the issue or.

Pragati Rastogi (09:56)

Yes.

So I was in the,

there was this task force which was put together where we had people from Gavi, from WHO, UNICEF, World Bank. And our goal was to create a task force that would just look after 10 countries and we would go after these 10 low income countries and say, what do need to increase your COVID vaccinations? And we'll do everything to make that happen. So that was the mandate of our task force during COVID. So it was a pretty crazy time.

Katharine McLennan (10:25)

my God. So you only had 10 countries, is that all? Where were the 10 countries? Just curiously.

Pragati Rastogi (10:29)

Hahaha

Pam Fox Rollin (10:31)

So awesome.

Pragati Rastogi (10:36)

Yeah, it was a range from Afghanistan, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Malawi. There was a broad range of countries but mostly Africa. Yeah, I mean I was actually in lockdown in Geneva as well. So everyone was like, you moved from India to Geneva, you must be traveling Europe. And I'm like, no, I'm in lockdown even here. So yeah.

Katharine McLennan (10:42)

I guess you couldn't really go there.

Yeah.

Wow, that is truly amazing. Okay, well, what I would love for you guys, the healthcare focus people, is it was interesting that you chose Taiwan and Singapore, Pam. So now I'm looking and Pam and I decided that leadership and culture were just as important a strategy, but they need to be integral.

So Pam, take us through how you went from healthcare, you were at Bain too, I believe.

Pam Fox Rollin (11:25)

I was at Bain

and Pragyanti and I, we reminisced because they still have associate consultant training at Cape Cod. I was there when there were only three offices, San Francisco, London, and Boston, but they still had the same training and a few more tools. I've always been kind of on the early adopter side of technology. I had my IBM ThinkPad at the business school.

Katharine McLennan (11:33)

What?

my goodness. goodness.

Pragati Rastogi (11:42)

Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (11:48)

Yeah.

Pam Fox Rollin (11:53)

And so I didn't have to go to the computer center all the time.

Katharine McLennan (11:55)

Yeah, she's like

one of the few like fancy people with laptops. The rest of us had to like fight for a space at the computer lab.

Pragati Rastogi (12:01)

Wow.

Pam Fox Rollin (12:05)

And when I was at Bain, had a compact, luggable 75 pounds so I could get through the airport with a computer and I was so fancy. Anyway.

Pragati Rastogi (12:05)

Thanks

Katharine McLennan (12:11)

you

That's right, Pam. Teaselwees. So yeah. So if you go back to health care then, and Pam, you're getting involved, I don't know. It's 30 years ago. What kind of health care issues were? I I didn't look at any. That's for sure. was efficiency in terms of the hospitals. I used to look at a lot of operational, but not the policies.

Pam Fox Rollin (12:15)

Yeah.

Yeah,

there was a little bit, there was a little bit of healthcare because you remember our classmate, Daniel Entenvin, his dad was the guru of healthcare. So he did a class, which I didn't take. And there was one class on climate. And when I get to spend time with GSBers right now, and they're all talking about climate, I'm so excited. I did take the climate policy class, which was amazing. healthcare was like thinking about it at a system level, which

Katharine McLennan (12:44)

Yes, of course. That's right.

Pam Fox Rollin (13:05)

nobody found the lever to change. So same thing. What I'm loving over these some years is the involvement of the design school. And there's so much in bio design. There's so much in what can we change. And so for nine years pre-COVID, I worked with the med school fellows who were focused on innovation for one to two years, either full-time or half-time, doctors from a variety of disciplines.

And it was so exciting to also see some partnership with the business school around bio design.

Katharine McLennan (13:39)

Wow, bio design. What is bio design, Pam? Cheers.

Pam Fox Rollin (13:44)

well, I mean, you can think of it in a variety of ways. You can get down to clinical stuff, but you can also get down to how care is delivered and design thinking in healthcare. And Pragete is nodding your head. So I'd love to know what's currently going on there.

Pragati Rastogi (13:57)

Thank

Katharine McLennan (13:59)

Yeah,

tell us.

Pragati Rastogi (14:00)

Yeah, actually, bio design is, it's a really cool course which we have, which is only focused on healthcare where we have, like you form teams where you have one person in the med school, one from engineering, one from business school, and it's a mix. And then you give in, like there's a particular topic or a particular idea that you're trying to crack. And then you spend six months in detail working out everything from

But the idea is you verify it, you do beta testing, you do interviews, and you go through the whole process of what a startup should go through. And at the end of six months, you pitch it to investors, real investors, and can actually raise funds. And we've actually diversified this into three different biodesign options. So one is biodesign for biotech or medtech, and then there's biodesign for digital health. And now there's a biodesign for societal health, which is more broad. So I think it's really grown.

Katharine McLennan (14:46)

You know what I'm laughing about is like, I'm laughing with you, or laughing at us. Because our design class was, we were making a bicycle lamp or a bicycle flashlight.

Pam Fox Rollin (14:59)

Yes, yes.

Katharine McLennan (15:01)

And look at you guys! my God! And what I love also is, so I think thousands and thousands of years of history, we're always finding ourselves at a choice point. And the choice point, think, well, there's many choices at the moment, but I'm using the word integration instead of like against isolation. And you, look at what you're doing. I mean, the integration of medical school with engineering school,

Pam Fox Rollin (15:18)

I love it. I love it.

Katharine McLennan (15:27)

But hospitals, these are the thoughts and the leaders that I'm so glad we're sending back out as we start to slow down a little bit. I don't know, maybe not slow down, but look differently. You're growing up in India. Does that impact your health care passion? where did that come from? Where is the health care passion?

Pragati Rastogi (15:32)

Yes,

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Yeah, think for me the healthcare passion comes from, so actually it's a personal story. So my dad actually is a CPA equivalent in India. And so he goes to like a lot of these remote places to do audits and financial audits and meetings. So he was actually at one of these branch audits in a very remote part of India and he suffered a heart attack at that moment. And we were very far from him and he was lucky enough to be, to get to the right care on time. But then when we went to visit him, I was like, okay, wow, like not.

all places have the same level of infrastructure here. You know, when you talk about hospitals and surgeries, it's very different and we were very lucky we had the right contacts and we had resources, but not everyone does. And that was a real eye-opener for me. And so I spent a lot of time in India doing lot of pro bono work where I would work with governments and nonprofits also to see how things are different.

And then when I moved to Dubai, like I did a project, like a Bain project within Dubai and there you see healthcare. It's so different. It's so advanced and so, you know, upcoming, latest cutting edge things are there and you see there's so much differences in the way things work. And I think for me, the interesting thing was that I've just been curious to see how different systems work in different countries because a lot of it is not, you can't blame everything on like just on a business, like, okay, the company is the big bad agent. Like there are a lot of systemic issues that lead to these things.

Katharine McLennan (16:54)

Yeah.

Yes.

Pragati Rastogi (17:04)

That's was trying to see what do different countries do that could be learnings you could have. And that's why even coming to the US, I realized, okay, there's a very different system here, but it's not blaming one company here that all the insurance and the big bad guys or the pharmacy managers are the big bad guys. It's a very complex ecosystem and it's about trying to see what makes sense.

Katharine McLennan (17:22)

Wow, geez, Pam, I don't know what we, okay, well, let's do the, I'm gonna jump, I'm keeping that in the back of my mind because I think integration is the big thing here. So Pam, you were, sounds like strategy at first, but what got you into the whole integrated whole of a culture and a behavior and a leadership and how to be a leader?

Pam Fox Rollin (17:26)

I'm

Yeah.

Yeah. So that was always how I did strategy and Progety. I probably didn't say that to you, but I, I occasionally would get hauled into partners offices and told, why did you give that key insight to the head of marketing? And I'm like, because they are the ones that have to take it.

Katharine McLennan (17:51)

Of course you did.

Pam Fox Rollin (18:11)

Your job is not to make the client look smart. Your job is to make your Bain partner look smart.

Katharine McLennan (18:12)

I'm

Pam Fox Rollin (18:16)

I always have my eyes for the mix, the integration of strategy, individual and team leadership and organizational culture. And that is where I love to play. That's where I've played in the 30 years since I went to Stanford. can't believe it's going to be 30 years this fall. And so I did that with big firms and then...

Katharine McLennan (18:29)

Yay.

Pam Fox Rollin (18:43)

So this was 1999. I was being put up for a fastest promotion in to associate partner. And I said, I need to come off the road for a while. We should plan for me to come off or reduce because I was traveling every single week. And I met the guy I wanted to marry and I was like 34 at the time. And I said, wow, we want to have kids now and all of that.

Katharine McLennan (18:54)

Yay.

goodness. goodness.

Pam Fox Rollin (19:12)

And I was told, did you know you can FedEx your breast milk home?

Katharine McLennan (19:17)

No, were not. Pam! What? What? They were joking, weren't they? You've got to be kidding. That would just... goodness.

Pragati Rastogi (19:18)

my god.

Pam Fox Rollin (19:19)

Yes, I was. That was the vision for me as a mom. No, no, I am not kidding. I'm not kidding.

then someone suggested I talk with an associate partner who was making it work to travel just four days a week. And I said, that is so clarifying. Thank you very much. I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to go now. And they said, you can't.

Katharine McLennan (19:42)

you

Pam Fox Rollin (19:44)

just gotten you this promotion. you crazy? And I said, I think I can walk out the door. And just as I did, I got a call, synchronicity somehow from somebody I'd met a year before at a random dinner who we talked the whole night. said she was a marketing consultant. And she said, she called me right as I was saying, I think I'm going to leave and said, did you become an executive coach? Like I told you to in

Katharine McLennan (19:50)

Pam.

Pam Fox Rollin (20:11)

And I said, actually I did because when she suggested I become an executive coach, I'd never really thought about it, heard a bunch of it. I thought, well, that'll really help me be a great strategy consultant if I have those coaching skills. So she called me and said, I have become head of marketing here at Blue Shield, California, right in San Francisco, where you live. Would you like to come work with me and my team? And then the head of.

Katharine McLennan (20:23)

Fantastic! There you go!

Pragati Rastogi (20:33)

Yes.

Katharine McLennan (20:35)

Wow.

Pam Fox Rollin (20:38)

One of my very favorite partners became global head of leadership development. And she said, well, if you're going to leave Accenture, would you come back on contract with me and help develop the partners? So that's, that's where things started 25 years ago.

Katharine McLennan (20:47)

wow, Pam.

Pragati Rastogi (20:48)

Wow.

Katharine McLennan (20:52)

my goodness, wow. And here we are, old ladies, and we're still trying to tell those young guys to get their acti- no, that's not how we approach things. You know, it's interesting, Prakriti, it's Stanford, and we had one class on organizational behavior, which is a terrible term anyway, but anyway, maybe it isn't, I don't know. I guess it's better than HR, human resources.

Pragati Rastogi (21:02)

Hahaha!

Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (21:19)

And then we had the first year of leadership as a concept and it was a program. Pam, were you on that? Yes. Okay.

Pam Fox Rollin (21:27)

Yes, yes, it was

wonderful. And then everybody forgot about it. And then they created another leadership program a few years later without any memory of the previous program. And so I was on that too. really from 2000 to COVID, I was, well, no, to 2017 and then a little bit after that to COVID, I was on contract with the business school.

Katharine McLennan (21:31)

YAH!

Pam Fox Rollin (21:51)

to two days a week, most quarters, facilitating Tetchy Feely, being a guest fellow in leadership for the leadership program. And then the thing I'm most excited about is I got to help Dave Bradford start the leadership coaching course. So I was the first to design the experiential component and then coach the second years to coach the first years. And now there's a full-time amazing person.

Katharine McLennan (21:53)

Great.

No!

Pragati Rastogi (22:15)

Thank

Pam Fox Rollin (22:17)

Felicia who does that and so many, I don't know, Prakriti, how people think of the leadership coaching course now, but I think it's going strong.

Katharine McLennan (22:26)

Okay, you better tell us about it. I want to hear and I'm very jealous about this. Tell us tell us how it works.

Pragati Rastogi (22:33)

I'd actually love to hear from you, Pam, because I think this is a course which you have next quarter and I filled it and I didn't even get it in the lottery system and so many of us have been hearing so many things about the course and I in first quarter we get to do this course called Lead Labs, which is leadership laboratory, where they put six of us in these groups and then they make us do these simulations, like role-playing activities and then you record yourselves and then you critique and everything.

Katharine McLennan (22:43)

Huh.

Pam Fox Rollin (22:56)

Yeah. Yeah.

Pragati Rastogi (22:59)

And we have a second year who's a fellow who's guiding us through the process and they're called our buckle fellows. And almost like I think at the end of that first quarter, so many of my friends and I had a conversation, you know what, let's become leadership coaches. That sounds like such a good career option. then it's just somehow we just love that thought. But I think after that, it got lost in the mix of things. But I think that's one thought that has come across almost half the people at the GSB at least once.

Katharine McLennan (23:24)

But even, you know what, it's interesting. And again, I had been doing this right after, and there was no such thing, at least in Australia, for a thing called executive coaching. And now I think Australia has more executive coaches per capita than any other country, but nobody's doing anything. We're all coaching. So, but what's interesting about how you're describing the...

Pragati Rastogi (23:40)

Wow.

Katharine McLennan (23:47)

what's important now and even the very experience of a leadership lab where you're actually getting awareness of how you come across and your interaction and what your relationship is. I just don't think we had that Pam. don't, I mean, we had a bit of it and I just, bit of it, yeah.

Pam Fox Rollin (24:03)

We had a bit of it and then it

really increased in 2000 with Beth Benjamin and Evelyn Williams and then Carol Robbins and like just an Ed Batista and, and then Sharon Richmond and Ifaat Shrabi Levine and a whole bunch of people who have just done amazing work in experiential leadership learning, including reflective stuff.

Katharine McLennan (24:28)

fantastic.

that's so awesome. You know, I started in my undergraduate. I was leading an outward bound based initiative. then all year long, the students would be teaching the interactive and the experiential learning. I think that's what got me. So your second year, you're

Pragati Rastogi (24:32)

Thanks.

Mm.

Katharine McLennan (24:50)

this is Schmorgensburg, you know, and I talked to lot of your classmates, there's no such thing as going to Lake Tahoe and skiing and kind of hanging out and doing, I mean, you guys are full, full of steam. so where, so let's see, March, second year, what's, what is your outlook as you start to wind the business school down and start to get asked that terrible question, what are you going to do next? What are you going to do next?

Pragati Rastogi (24:57)

Thank

No.

Katharine McLennan (25:19)

What's your, what are you thinking?

Pragati Rastogi (25:20)

god,

I absolutely hid that question.

Katharine McLennan (25:23)

I know, I know.

Pam Fox Rollin (25:23)

Haha!

Pragati Rastogi (25:25)

But you know, actually it's very interesting. my brother actually just graduated from HBS last year. So I have a comparison always in mind when I think about these things. And I feel that at the GSB, a lot of us are very relaxed in that sense. There's very little pressure. At this point, no one is really that worried that, oh my god, should we start interviewing? Do we know what job we're going to get? I think, so A, we're not worried about will we get a job? And I don't know if that's delusional, it's naive, or it's good thing. But right now, it's there.

And I think the second thing is also that there's less pressure on getting the right branded job, which I feel is a lot. I've seen with my friends and my brother at HBS, they're like, oh, I need to get this job, which has the best brand out there. This is the most competitive thing out there. This is what's paying more. So if you don't get it, they're going to judge me. There's a lot of peer pressure. And I don't feel that here because I feel people are more open that, oh, you want to this one very niche thing that you think is a good fit for you and good for you. That's all that matters. And I think that's one thing I do love about

There's very little pressure on getting the right job. And I think all the courses, the professors keep telling us that, you know what, don't put so much weight on your first job, it will change and that's okay. This is not defining your career at all. And I think it's good to hear that and convince ourselves that it's okay to take it slow.

Katharine McLennan (26:40)

But something

about it'll be the healthcare still draws you. Will you continue to focus on that, do you think?

Pragati Rastogi (26:44)

Hmm.

Thanks for asking this to be... because I feel that's another one issue I do feel here is there's this pressure to conform to a particular passion where everyone that comes here is aligned that, I'm passionate about health care I was taking this...

course, we have this course last quarter, is a beautiful course. It's called Finding religious and spiritual meaning at work. And that's a course where we get alums and people that come and talk about, you know, about it's not it's not about preaching religion. It's about what does work mean to you in life. And I think one of the biggest debates is, is having a passion even worth it? Or because you know, passion, have a passion now. And if it gets boring, you it dies down, and then you're going to think about a new passion. And then what if

Katharine McLennan (27:07)

fantastic.

Mmm.

Pragati Rastogi (27:29)

you get stressed about, is this really my passion or not? Do you have just one calling in life? There's so many questions and I think it's just so much pressure that, this is my passion and I'm going to do healthcare for the rest of my life because I did it for three, four years and it got me to GSB. And I think that pressure is a lot, but I also feel that most of us do stick to it to some extent so that at least it's a way to compound and get further. So think most of us do stick to that to some extent, there very few that pivot.

So I feel that to some level I am putting the pressure on myself that okay, I've done healthcare, I enjoyed it, so let me stick to it for now. But I also feel that I should be open to serendipity and be open that, you know what, I like this new job. It may not be exactly healthcare, but who cares? I love it and I will try it out.

Katharine McLennan (28:10)

yeah,

Pam and I are just going, gosh. Well, first of all, I have chopped and changed my entire career. just kind of, something comes and I'm like, shiny, shiny. But the spiritual meaning part of it has always, always undergirded. So wherever I am, whether it's in a, well, I at the Sydney Olympics for four years or whether, or I'm in a,

Pragati Rastogi (28:14)

Ha ha.

Hahaha

Katharine McLennan (28:37)

a manufacturing plant in the bottom, the southern end of New Zealand. But I love how you have that. It's the meaning and the spiritual meaning and the fact that you guys are looking at that. I know, Pam, we were doing a really good job in our women's group. And we were looking for meaning. But to have that, Pam, is just extraordinary. I'm excited. Yeah.

Pragati Rastogi (28:42)

Hehehehehe

Pam Fox Rollin (28:56)

women's groups were amazing.

Pragati Rastogi (28:58)

Yes.

Pam Fox Rollin (29:02)

I really do

love the Women's Alums' Circles. It has been so tremendous.

And what I especially appreciate is the multi-generational quality of that. And, you know, we may not be ready yet for in this conversation for the asks that we have of each other or the, you know, what we hope for each other. But, you know, if I had an ask, would be embrace.

Katharine McLennan (29:16)

Okay. Okay.

Pam Fox Rollin (29:31)

multi-generational teams. There's so much we can learn from each other. There's so much we can do together. I think it's gotten a little better. have to say somewhere around 2010, maybe the late 2000, Aughts, whatever we call them into that. It seems that we had lost that and people were.

Katharine McLennan (29:34)

Awesome.

Pragati Rastogi (29:35)

.

Pam Fox Rollin (29:56)

Like everything was about starting your next startup and anybody over 32 was incapable of doing anything.

will note the inspiration of my mother, who was the first person in our neighborhood with a computer. had an Atari 400 and then an Atari 800.

Pragati Rastogi (30:06)

I'm

Katharine McLennan (30:06)

No.

Pragati Rastogi (30:13)

you

Pam Fox Rollin (30:14)

And then I

Katharine McLennan (30:14)

bam!

Pam Fox Rollin (30:15)

had the first computer in the dorms, my Zenith 286 that did not have a hard drive that you put in floppies to load the operating system. And I don't think we can assume that the people who understand technology or know how to use it are all the younger ones. Yeah, just a thought.

Katharine McLennan (30:18)

my gosh.

Pragati Rastogi (30:20)

Thanks

Katharine McLennan (30:22)

That's right, check.

Especially,

especially in this world. And, you know, it's, it'll be interesting to see how that, that this whole thing emerges because certainly Pam, I, when we graduated in 95, as I said, the internet was just coming and a few of us kind of went into there and did extremely well. Some, and then some didn't because it was like this beautiful bubble, as they said, from 95 to 2000. And then we had a thing called the dot-com crash.

Pragati Rastogi (30:36)

you

Katharine McLennan (31:01)

And so now what's interesting is watching how this next field, because we're not in the information age, where you are definitely, mean, Pam, how long did it take for us to read a case and then study it? Like, you you guys just sort of snap it into the thing and ta-da. But the cool thing about it is, so if it's not information age, then the ability to

You tell me, like in business school, the ability to add so much creativity and insight, you let the computer tell us what it needs to do and then we can create new thought. Is that how you guys are experiencing AI? Because I know you use it all the time for courses and I mean, it's embraced.

Pragati Rastogi (31:46)

Yeah, no, I don't think I would have survived the MBA without chat GPT, to be honest. I think it's like my personal AI writer to just the game changer on how we study and do assignments. but I feel like in terms of how we use AI, one is chat GPT and LLMs, a lot more conversation on it's a great technology and

Katharine McLennan (31:51)

This

Pragati Rastogi (32:07)

having to know what the upcoming technology, it's a good knowledge center, but how do you actually use it? What is the business value of it? What are the use cases for it? There's a lot of value for MBAs here. we see so many, when we do these startup garage kind of conversations with other teams and other small upcoming AI startups, most of them are like, oh, we just need a huge tech team. Do you really need someone from business? I don't think so. And I think here, this is really where you need business people because they will tell you what's the...

where do you actually use this AI? How are you going to really make it work in your life? So I think understanding that is something that's done a lot. We have those conversations and I feel we also have a lot of interesting conversations around the political standpoint of it. What are the regulatory impacts? Okay, TikTok is coming, how do we think about AI in business in that sense of it? What do we think about from the medical side and how do we think about it? know, AI is consuming a lot of energy. So how do you think about it from that perspective? Like there's a lot of multiple angles in how we're discussing AI in classes today.

And I really liked that. And the one interesting actually anecdote is we have this class called Generative AI and Medicine, which is a course run in the med school. And the professor had only one request that every week I wanted to tell me three new things in AI that happened this week. And it's actually so crazy that every week we would have new things coming up in the field of AI. And so it was so interesting that we would learn more from the things that are happening that week than any set.

Pam Fox Rollin (33:07)

Thank

Katharine McLennan (33:23)

Okay.

Pragati Rastogi (33:29)

curriculum and that just shows that even what we're learning this year will be very different than what people will be learning next year.

Pam Fox Rollin (33:34)

There is a fellowship to come back at Stanford and study something. I don't know. I know a couple of people who've done it. I forget what it's called, but yes, super exciting. And if I might draw the implication of that for me, Prakati, is,

Katharine McLennan (33:38)

So we're like.

Pragati Rastogi (33:41)

you

Pam Fox Rollin (33:48)

And, know, I have these conversations with my 19 and 22 year old, but maybe you'll listen better. but no, I adore them, but frankly, use AI more than I do. But, they, to me, a key implication is that most of the role of leadership, company formation, foundation, all of that, a lot of it that can be done by AI within a few years will be done by AI.

Katharine McLennan (33:54)

Right definition.

Pam Fox Rollin (34:13)

Then what is left? And what is left is being human. And so the ability to build trusting relationships, the ability to be steady and say, I am taking responsibility for producing this outcome.

Katharine McLennan (34:15)

then what is left? Yes.

Pam Fox Rollin (34:32)

the ability to create teams, right? Those are what matters now. And I think Stanford is way ahead with the tradition of interpersonal dynamics and the leadership programs and all of that building community. The study trips, I'm sure, are not just about go to a place and hear the thing. It is really about building connections with each other in healthcare. And those connections are going to be great for your entire lives. So.

Katharine McLennan (34:59)

That's a hood.

Pam Fox Rollin (35:00)

Anyway, what do you think of that

Pragati Rastogi (35:00)

Yes. Yes.

Pam Fox Rollin (35:02)

assertion?

Katharine McLennan (35:03)

Pam, my hope is that, so if you take that idea, you look at the ability for us to be more human, as Pam says, more connected, more that, is there a vision you guys are having as you go back into the real world? There is no real world, by the way. It's here.

Pragati Rastogi (35:12)

Mm.

No.

Katharine McLennan (35:25)

Is there an excitement of being able to play with our minds, connect to each other? Use heart, not just intellect.

Pragati Rastogi (35:32)

No.

Absolutely, think touchy feely is a game changer for almost everyone at JSB. And you know, when I took that course, it really changed my perspective on what I think leadership is all about. And I think not just leadership, I think it's even how you deal with daily interactions with conversations at home with relationships. And I think that is not something that is replaceable by AI. And that's truly what makes people stand out. And I think this year, there's like, at least for me, I'm focusing a lot, a lot more on the software.

which are being taught like touchy feely and about how do you, there's this course called humor in business and how do you be more conversational in meetings? How do you bring in, have a better brand? How do you have better conversations? And I think these are the skills which I think which I would love to learn at JSC because that also teaches me how to be a better leader with AI or without AI. That's just a tool in my hand, but I think there is a lot of appreciation for that.

Katharine McLennan (36:24)

well, that's the

thing. And so this is why, you know, the word kind of is funny integration, but Pam, when we were learning, I really did feel like there was a style. You go to marketing class over here and then you go to finance class over here and then, yeah, there's organizational behavior. And then there's thing called systems where we're doing like Lotus one, two, three spreadsheets or something like that. And it just, to draw it together and to see it like this,

Pam Fox Rollin (36:39)

100%.

100%.

Katharine McLennan (36:52)

for your generation is my hope. And then, and then to put this thing called humans around it and to really understand that relationship. hallelujah, Pam. Geez, I tell you, we can now safely retire to be elders. No, we don't have, no, our generation, no, don't worry. No, no.

Pragati Rastogi (37:01)

Mm.

you

Pam Fox Rollin (37:13)

No, Todd!

Not a chance!

Katharine McLennan (37:18)

But Pam, I know, well, there's no such thing actually, especially if you are who you are and you get to be who you are. And I think for us, at least for me now, this age just is, you know what?

take myself, you know, I'm all right. You know, there's so many so-called failures and things like that I've had personally and career wise and stuff. just it gives a sense of humor, but not for everyone. so Pam, as we'll just say, we're around our 60s, sort of bordering before or after, doesn't really matter. What's what's your perspective? What do you what do you take from this age as opposed to 30 years flashback?

Pragati Rastogi (37:34)

you

Pam Fox Rollin (37:52)

59.

my gosh.

I remember thinking with amazement a couple of weeks into business school that things were happening that I hadn't organized. And it was very weird for me. Like, Kath, you organized that wonderful, or you were part of the wonderful outdoor adventure things that we did. That's how you and I got to know each other is because we went on a kayaking trip together. Yes.

Katharine McLennan (38:21)

Yeah, I did!

that's right! I forgot about that.

Pam Fox Rollin (38:28)

And that was my

Katharine McLennan (38:28)

my gosh.

Pam Fox Rollin (38:28)

first time kayaking. And then I don't even know if you know this, but I became a kayaking instructor after the business school so that I wouldn't work every weekend. I, yeah. So I did kayaking instruction on the weekends. and, but things were happening. were clubs, people like progety organizing things and all of that.

Katharine McLennan (38:33)

No way! you're kidding! that's so funny!

my gosh.

Thank

Pam Fox Rollin (38:53)

And it was super weird for me. And it's something that in my women's circle that we do now, like we talk about, that's one thing that's so distinctive about the GSB is everybody's like, okay, how do we put this in action? And I think there's more of an appreciation now that you don't have to have all the answers to put things in action. You don't have to pretend to know, you can experiment, you can play, and then you can find out together. I love that.

Katharine McLennan (39:17)

Yep.

Yeah. It's fun because we're entering, okay, I can call it the I don't know generation because certainly when before Pam, we started business school, it was always the guy at the top who knew and he, I'm saying he went from bank teller all the way up to CEO and he and there was the Jack Welch's of GE and it was great big magnets.

Pragati Rastogi (39:25)

You

Katharine McLennan (39:42)

And so when the internet came along, we did see the rise of this young idea, these young burgeoning out of the business school. I don't know is, and I really use that, is how to be okay in I don't know, which is I was watching you as I said, what are you going to do? And I just saw this woman that's okay to be I don't know. I just bless you. It's fantastic. I just, you know, and thank

Pragati Rastogi (39:59)

Thank

This is it.

Katharine McLennan (40:09)

Goodness. So it's a new world. let me go back to the, I would have just been in the spiritual course that you were talking about and hearing from all different perspectives. That's my passion. So I spend a lot of time with ancient wisdom before humans got to it or tried to go back to the scripts of all our religions, because we're forgetters, know, humans forget. And so,

Pragati Rastogi (40:21)

Thanks.

Thank

This is.

Katharine McLennan (40:34)

Yeah, it's been exciting. So, okay, let's, I get to jam on that a little bit because you guys are so, we would be there for hours if you were there present. So anyway, okay, now, so you're going to go to Taiwan and Singapore. And have you been there before?

Pragati Rastogi (40:45)

Thank

Yeah.

I've been to Singapore before. No, first time.

Katharine McLennan (40:55)

You have been to Singapore, but not Taiwan. Okay.

Okay. Well, you have to at some point come down to Australia because Australia doesn't have a bad healthcare system either. Where, you know, there's something about being able to know that you're always held with any health issue and our government does support that. So will you stay in the United States, do think?

Pragati Rastogi (41:18)

I don't know. I feel that at least for a few years, I'd love to be here and explore what opportunities are there. But I do feel long term, maybe I'd want to go back to India because that's where it's family, that's where it's home. So I think that that's also a debate, is just everyone has that one thought, like should we stay here or not long term?

Katharine McLennan (41:23)

Yep.

our family is, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, it's an interesting one now, Pam, I guess the the day by day is unfolding. And well, while we're at it, Pam, how excited was I to see your videos of, you know, action locally? How fantastic is

Pam Fox Rollin (41:50)

And I'm glad to at least reference the environment that we're in because it's not usual. It is a huge inflection point for our country. to our earlier conversation about leadership and human,

Katharine McLennan (42:01)

No, it's not.

Pam Fox Rollin (42:07)

There is a temptation in some quarter to say, if Elon's the richest guy in the world, then should we all adopt a bullying, chaotic, mean style of leadership? And what we forget, and if you go back to Jim Collins' work on level five leaders, is that you don't know the names of the leaders who are leading well. They're just out there doing it. They're not actually looking to...

get the most likes on Twitter or X. They are just doing the work and bringing people up with them. And my hope is the GSB is a place that helps, that produces, that we produce from, that stay strong in an inclusive empowering style of leadership.

Katharine McLennan (42:58)

Yeah. And that's what you guys, well, we, I shouldn't say even you are facing, you know, and it's worldwide, I can tell you, because I've got friends in Singapore and I've got friends and a couple of other, you know, Australia is actually part of

The whole world watched that, watched a few events that happened in the last week. And I think it'll be interesting. That's why I think we're at a choice point because are we going to go that way, Pam? Are we going to, we going to become that isolated kind of, you're right, I'm wrong. Let me just put my head down, sir. Or are we going to be able to use the sandpaper, well, worse than sandpaper and go, no, that's actually not what we were.

And it goes back to at least the foundation of the US, where our patriots said we don't want the kingship. I mean, gosh, India is one of the oldest, I think, if not the oldest civilizations in the world, having gone through this thousands of times. But we're at this choice point in our age, geez, my hope is that us elders, us youngers, us middles, whatever we are, can

in our own way. How do you guys take that in the business school? How do you guys address what's going on politically? we don't, you know, it just, I'd love to hear how the, generation's thinking about it.

Pragati Rastogi (44:21)

Yeah, think, I mean, we actually saw the die election phase as well at GSB and there's all these conversations, dinner table conversations going on almost every day on these topics. And I think we have this class which is called Freedom, Democracy and Capitalism. And it's taught by this professor, Keith Hennessey, who worked in George Bush's administration. And like every week, we just bring up a new one of these new controversial policies that are coming up and all the latest.

Katharine McLennan (44:39)

Fentist, okay.

Pragati Rastogi (44:49)

We have really heated debates in class because we realize that GSB actually has lot of, it has opinions on both sides of the table. It does, and that's something that does come out in class when you see those perspectives. I think the learning here is that A, you should speak up, you shouldn't just sit back. That's think one learning that we're trying to inculcate. I don't think it's fully there across the GSB, there's still a lot of-

Katharine McLennan (44:57)

It does.

Pragati Rastogi (45:13)

support for like, know, what is it worth speaking up like, it affect your reputation and things like that. So I think it's there's still a balance there. But I also think the second is you should be okay with someone having a different opinion than you and I think that is something which were very, which I think is really good here that people are willing to hear a very opposite perspective and still be okay with that. And there's a better way of delivering it is a better way of disagreeing and learning how to disagree well is something which I've learned at least over the years and I think that's

That is a useful skill for me because it's better than getting triggered or just not having the conversation if you know someone has a very opposite perspective.

Katharine McLennan (45:47)

Well, that goes to

my philosophy. Like, how do we integrate the understanding of the left and the right and the centrist? And how do we watch that we don't even fall off the humanistic teeter totter? And the interesting thing, You've been out there. You've been street, so to speak, Pam. What are you seeing?

Pragati Rastogi (45:52)

Mm.

Yeah.

Pam Fox Rollin (46:05)

I've always been politically active my whole life. But to take it towards the point of what has been meaningful for my GSB experience is staying in touch with this fabulous, amazing group of people. I wish I had stayed in touch with more, but actually there are some who I didn't know well at business school who are now a part of my life. So that's an exciting possibility too. But what has really strengthened me and

Katharine McLennan (46:25)

No.

Pam Fox Rollin (46:29)

2016, 2020, when I was doing a lot as well. And, and as we go through this period now, last Friday morning, I was at a Planned Parenthood fundraising breakfast with three other GSBers, including one who I hadn't seen in a long time. And, and many of us are out there.

Pragati Rastogi (46:46)

Thanks.

Katharine McLennan (46:47)

No

way!

Pam Fox Rollin (46:55)

doing our thing and it's not always on the streets. We have organizational skills. We have connections and networks. And so how can we put that in service of building a better community? And I understand that people differ on what building a better community looks like. And I'm really glad to hear Prageti that that kind of, how do we have dialogue that produces light and not heat is really, really helpful.

Katharine McLennan (47:02)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, nice.

I love that. do we, how do we product a light and not heat? my gosh. Cause it's great. So in terms, maybe with the, I don't know, the arrival of the chat TPTs, the world, gives you space to rise above the facts and the figures and have some pretty juicy conversations. Right. Would that be right? Like, do you get some into the philosophy of what the business case is about? And on case study.

Pragati Rastogi (47:26)

Thanks

Yeah,

think honestly, one thing I do feel is that maybe I don't know how much role charge GPD does have to play in this, but we did a, I think most of the conversations that we have around even business cases is more about, is this ethically right to do or wrong? Or what are the values of this business person? Like does he care about shareholder value more? Or does he care about creating impact? Like what are the core values of why someone would make these decisions? I think a lot of our conversations are more on that and less about.

or is the profit going to be $2 billion or three and that's why you make a decision or not. So I think the framework of why we making certain decisions, think those conversations have changed a bit. And I think that's, it's interesting to see that because it's not, I think that changes how your thought process is in terms of decision making. we may not make those kinds of decisions today, 10 years later, if we do become CXOs, I think that's an important skill set to, a muscle to build.

Katharine McLennan (48:15)

Yeah.

Well, my hope is, and Pam, it goes back to being politically involved. the whole world literally does watch the television and the social media, and we get our truths. My philosophy, the other philosophies get their truth. And so the silos can happen because my truth is your truth is not your truth. And it's a worry. But here's the thing. And Pam, you might have it with the experience.

Pragati Rastogi (48:42)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Katharine McLennan (49:03)

business leaders with an MBA, but, and we're watching those politicians do their thing. And so, but it's not like that. So how, how do people with the Stanford kind of mindset really make their impact and not, yeah, go Pam.

Pragati Rastogi (49:05)

This is...

Pam Fox Rollin (49:21)

Well,

we have classmates in politics, Kath, and we have across the year. Yeah. And I'm sure your class will as well, Prakati, but also serving on board. So I just joined the board of an organization called Right To Be, which is about how do we create a world that is full of humanity and free of harassment.

Katharine McLennan (49:26)

Fantastic. I don't even know that. Yeah. Yep.

Pragati Rastogi (49:34)

Yeah.

Katharine McLennan (49:37)

Yes. Yes. Yes. OK.

Wow, okay.

Pam Fox Rollin (49:50)

I see, and what I'll say also is I started on boards at 24, the San Francisco Food Bank Board. And I would encourage people to start early and really build up the skills, the networks, the understandings to be able to be fabulous board members. Because more and more, as we enter that next part of our career, that's a huge thing. And let's bring some young people in with us.

Katharine McLennan (49:56)

Yeah. Yes.

Pam Fox Rollin (50:19)

our wings to learn how to do board stuff.

Katharine McLennan (50:23)

Well, the governance is an art and it's an art to be able to separate yourself from and look above down at what the organization and have the long view. I found, and I don't know probably where you're going to end up, but I found that my early stages just so down here with spreadsheets and everything else like that.

I am delighted to watch you guys. You're going to go look at the healthcare system of Taiwan and Singapore. My goodness. What are the trips did you do? What was the trip for first year? What did you do there?

Pragati Rastogi (51:01)

So for first year we went to Japan and the topic was understanding product design from a human centrist perspective in Japanese culture.

Katharine McLennan (51:08)

there you go. Wow. Wow.

What did you learn? What was the takeout?

Pragati Rastogi (51:14)

It was very

interesting. met the founders of Uniqlo and Muji. I think we had a very interesting conversation where they were like, are making products not to increase consumerization, but we make products because we are going make one t-shirt at Uniqlo and the goal is that this t-shirt should last 10 years and everyone should just have one t-shirt and they shouldn't care about brands, they shouldn't care about trying to get another t-shirt. It's about being sustainable and creating one good product and not needing to buy it again.

And I think that's such a different perspective to product design versus most cultures have that, okay, how do we bring in more products? How do we make people buy more t-shirts, like 20 t-shirts and keep changing them every year. So I think it was a very different angle to product design, which we learned. And I think just one more thing, Pam, I think it was such a beautiful, beautiful point that you spoke about the board's perspective because I think I personally have been...

Katharine McLennan (51:41)

What was that?

Pragati Rastogi (52:04)

trying to interview at boards right now because we had this class last quarter called Board Governance, which is a new course I've started to teach us what being on a board means and how as young professionals, how can we get on boards? I think for most of us, at least for me, I've thought about boards as something you get on at the age of 40, 50, or once you retire. And then the fact that, it's possible and you can actually make change or you can influence decisions at a young age.

Katharine McLennan (52:12)

Good. Excellent.

Pragati Rastogi (52:32)

It was so powerful and it's so exciting. And I think there lot more people I know here who are trying to at least enter that space. that's a, and I think like the way you put it is just so energizing to hear that it actually can make a difference.

Katharine McLennan (52:44)

Oh, God, would hire you.

I would hire you any moment. I don't care if it's the largest bank in the country. would I would put you there. And that's one of the things I always say is we look at you. I'm speaking for I look at you and I go, yeah, we're about the same age. you know, she's just a tiny bit younger. And you look at us, maybe, I don't know. But at least I did when I was 30 and 60 year olds and I think

Pragati Rastogi (52:49)

Ha ha ha!

Hahaha

Hahaha.

Katharine McLennan (53:13)

man, like I'll never have the experience and wisdom or you know, whatever. And I really felt the age gap. What it's the other way it's it's and I read the reason I say that is don't ever be mystified like you're you're if I were on a board with you, I would be so honored to be and I would just be well, and you can't tell but I'll be quiet.

Pragati Rastogi (53:29)

I'm

No.

Katharine McLennan (53:41)

and listen.

Pam Fox Rollin (53:42)

I

wouldn't listen. I would listen. For sure I would listen, but I wouldn't be quiet.

Pragati Rastogi (53:46)

you

Katharine McLennan (53:49)

No, no, Well, let's bring this to a close and I'm I'm always the question. Okay, here's an interesting one. What's the, if there were one question that you're noodling in your brain about anything, what would be the question for the week?

Pragati Rastogi (53:50)

Hahaha.

No.

Katharine McLennan (54:09)

or for the day or the question that you're pondering, the pondering.

Pragati Rastogi (54:14)

and

Katharine McLennan (54:14)

They can talk with anybody. Yeah, go Pam.

Pam Fox Rollin (54:15)

I can go and then

you probably can do it. And it's probably because I have a 19 and 21 year old. With AI, we can do a lot of the work that business analysts, whether out of undergrad or MBA, do, used to do.

It is, I see it among my kids' friends, it's hard to get hired these days into those kind of roles. People are pulling back and then of course with the government doing the things it's doing, that's making it even harder. And then, but then I wonder when they're in their next role, how do they have the judgment that they learned when they, and it's one thing to say, well, they'll learn prompt engineering and all of that.

but I don't know that we're gonna develop enough people. I think we've removed a key rung of the ladder and that rung of the ladder included mentorship, good thinking, developing judgment, developing quantitative skills, being able to really test the corners of the analysis. And I am concerned and wondering what happens about

Katharine McLennan (55:09)

Alright, question.

Mm. Mm. Mm.

Pam Fox Rollin (55:34)

with that bottom lot of the rung missing.

Katharine McLennan (55:36)

Yeah, wow, that's a, wow. I'm gonna be pondering that today. It's a good one. What about you? What's a, you guys are pondering every second of the day, but what's one that's the most fascinating one?

Pragati Rastogi (55:40)

This.

Yeah, I think for me, you know, I've been taking this oil painting course across the street and my biggest thought has been how much weightage am I giving to work in my daily life today and how much time should I be giving to things which I love being outside of it and am I really putting a lot more pressure on how much work should mean in my life and how much I need to get a job. I think that's just like the most top of mind for me right now.

Katharine McLennan (56:12)

That is, I'm just delighted. My wish for you is that it's again, integrated that, you know, that is, which is hard, but I think it's just different modes of being throughout the day, you know, and different physical modes and mental modes. But anyway, I'll go off. You guys have been