Podcast Ep. 22 David Farlow Stanford MBA '95 meets Khalid Alajlan '25

Today I’m joined by David Farlow from the Stanford MBA Class of 1995 and Khalid Alajlan from the Class of 2025.

David is a transformation leader whose career spans global banking, fintech, and operational turnarounds across Europe and the U.S. From senior roles at Capital One and Wells Fargo to leading large-scale transformations in fintechs and UK utilities, he brings deep expertise in productivity, regulation, and customer experience. These days, he splits his time between London and rural Ireland—working remotely from a village that boasts neither a pub nor a post office, but, he assures us, has both a chapel and a chocolate factory.

Khalid is a second-year MBA student at Stanford GSB and one of the lead organizers of the recent student trek to Saudi Arabia. A former product manager in the satellite tech sector, he’s passionate about how technology bridges people and potential. He grew up in the UK and now plans to return home to Riyadh, drawn by the energy and opportunity of Saudi Arabia’s Vision 2030 transformation.

In this episode, David and Khalid reflect on the evolution of global tech—David tracing a path from Mosaic to AI chatbots, and Khalid describing the rise of a startup culture in the Gulf. They discuss intergenerational shifts in leadership, education, and innovation, and what it means to bring wisdom, curiosity, and creativity to building the next economy—whether from a farm in Kerry or a high-rise in Riyadh

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene

04:25 Future Aspirations and Career Paths

05:20 Cultural Exchange: Saudi Arabia and the West

07:27 The Evolution of Technology and Its Impact

14:00 Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 and Youth Engagement

19:20 Government's Role in Economic Growth

23:31 Comparing Experiences: UK vs. Saudi Arabia

28:30 The Quest for a Silicon Valley in Saudi Arabia

31:05 Cultural Perspectives and Education

33:23 Attracting Talent to Saudi Arabia

35:35 The Power of Alumni Networks

37:47 Generational Perspectives on Change

39:56 Funding Startups in Saudi Arabia

41:51 The Shift in Career Choices

43:45 Navigating Uncertainty in Business

44:51 The Role of Natural Resources

45:57 Education and Learning at Stanford

49:09 AI in Education

51:43 The Future of AI in Work

53:38 The Evolution of Information Search

55:43 Integrating Old and New Ideas

57:40 Creativity in Business

59:15 Connecting History with Modernity

01:01:44 Final Thoughts and Future Aspirations

Join the Podcast Series
Stanford MBA: From Baby Boomer to Gen Z | Class of ‘95 Meets Class of ‘25

Each of these episodes will feature a different pair of Stanford MBA people -- one from the class of 1995, and one from the class of 2025.

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Entire series playlist:
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Contact: kath@katharinemclennan.com

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene
• 4:25 Future Aspirations and Career Paths
• 5:20 Cultural Exchange: Saudi Arabia and the West
• 7:27 The Evolution of Technology and Its Impact
• 14:00 Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 and Youth Engagement
• 19:20 Government's Role in Economic Growth
• 23:31 Comparing Experiences: UK vs. Saudi Arabia
• 28:30 The Quest for a Silicon Valley in Saudi Arabia
• 31:05 Cultural Perspectives and Education
• 33:23 Attracting Talent to Saudi Arabia
• 35:35 The Power of Alumni Networks
• 37:47 Generational Perspectives on Change
• 39:56 Funding Startups in Saudi Arabia
• 41:51 The Shift in Career Choices
• 43:45 Navigating Uncertainty in Business
• 44:51 The Role of Natural Resources
• 45:57 Education and Learning at Stanford
• 49:09 AI in Education
• 51:43 The Future of AI in Work
• 53:38 The Evolution of Information Search
• 55:43 Integrating Old and New Ideas
• 57:40 Creativity in Business
• 59:15 Connecting History with Modernity
• 1:01:44 Final Thoughts and Future Aspirations

Transcript

Note: this transcript is generated by AI, so it won’t always be perfect, especially when it comes to: 

·        Incorrect breaks in a sentence (AI hears the pause and assumes a new sentence)

·        Exact word recognition – you may see that there are words that don’t make sense from time to time

Katharine McLennan (01:02)

Today I'm joined by David Farla from the Stanford MBA class of 1995, one of my classmates, and Khalid Alajan from the class of 2025. David is a transformation leader whose career spans global banking, fintech, and operational turnarounds across Europe and the United States.

From senior roles at Capital One and Wells Fargo to leading large scale transformations in fintechs and UK utilities, he brings deep expertise in productivity, regulation, and customer experience. These days, he splits his time between London and rural Ireland, working remotely from a village that boasts neither a pub nor a post office. But he assures us has both a chapel and a chocolate factory.

Khalid is a second year MBA student at Stanford GSB, Graduate School of Business, and one of the lead organizers of the recent student trek to Saudi Arabia. A former product manager in the satellite tech sector, he's passionate about how technology. A former product manager in the satellite tech sector, he's passionate about how technology bridges people and potential.

He grew up in the UK and now plans to return home to Riyadh, drawn by the energy and opportunity of Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 Transformation. In this episode, David and Khalid reflect on the evolution of global technology. David tracing a path from Mosaic to AI chatpots and Khalid describing the rise of a startup culture in the Gulf. They discuss intergenerational shifts in leadership, education and innovation.

and what it means to bring wisdom, curiosity, and creativity to building the next economy, whether from a farm in Kerry or a high rise in Riyadh.

Katharine McLennan (03:04)

So Colin, where are you? You don't look like the typical Stanford setting. You've got actually dishes behind you. So where do we find you today?

Khalid Alajlan (03:13)

Yeah,

so I live off campus this year and I'm in Barron Park which is close to Mountain View.

Katharine McLennan (03:20)

And what are you up to today? Today is Monday, I think, in your time.

Khalid Alajlan (03:24)

Yeah,

 I just finished class and during like the lunch break I hung out with some friends, a lot of people visiting campus this weekend because of reunions. So I had to catch up with a few people and went back home.

Katharine McLennan (03:39)

David, where do we find you tonight? I think over

David Farlow (03:42)

Tonight you

find me in a far corner of Europe. I'm in the rural part of Ireland in the far southwest in County Kerry. I live close to a small village. There's no pub, there's no post office, but there is a chapel and a chocolate factory. So, you know, those are the two needs in life met really, I think.

Katharine McLennan (03:46)

⁓

⁓

Ha! ⁓

Khalid Alajlan (04:05)

BWAH!

David Farlow (04:08)

wife and I thought we'd like somewhere green to get away from London. And we thought we'd spend a third of our time here, you know, long summer holidays, we have a daughter at school, you know, never else. But, you know, four years later, and 95 % of our time later, we've realized that we can, you know, we can work remotely from the ideals of the countryside and only return to London for great sushi.

Katharine McLennan (04:14)

Yup.

Fantastic.

David Farlow (04:36)

great coffee and good theatre.

Katharine McLennan (04:39)

And what's it like? Do you enjoy, which one do you enjoy? London or living the life in the country?

David Farlow (04:46)

Each has their own, we, well the country is beautiful, it's green, it's healthy, the air is clean, it's beautiful, you can see the horizon. The big city has the good coffee, the good sushi, the occasional business meeting,

Katharine McLennan (04:48)

What's good about the country?

Mm. Mm.

So Khaled, you are second year, almost finished, and the proverbial question that everybody detests, because I still remember it 30 years ago, is, so what are you doing when you graduate? Is that a bad question or is that a good question?

Khalid Alajlan (05:21)

And it depends where you're at, honestly. For me, the answer that I've been giving people, is I'm still figuring it out, but most probably going back to Saudi Arabia, which is my home country. And I don't want to rush the decision when I go back. going to look at things there and see how it goes.

Katharine McLennan (05:23)

Yeah, yeah.

Kellie, you are famous, I think, because were you the one that organized the trip for the business school students? It would have been this year, yes, to Saudi Arabia.

Khalid Alajlan (05:49)

It was December, yes, I was one of the four leading organizers for that trip. I didn't know I was that famous, but I'm glad it's sweet and I hope it's part of the...

Katharine McLennan (06:00)

People were so appreciative. What was it that you showed the students that was important for you guys to show them in Saudi Arabia?

Khalid Alajlan (06:10)

Well, for me personally, I think it's because of the distance because not a lot of people have been there tourism hasn't opened until like seven eight years ago and Not a lot of people have been there. So it was good for people to see themselves how the country is growing The beauty of the country the diversity of the country like we went to Jeddah, which is a West Coastal city at the Red Sea. We went to Allah, which is a historical place that

is more than 3000 years old. We went to Riyadh, which is the capital city, which is the business vibe. It's like a London, New York, all that.

Katharine McLennan (06:46)

And when you go back, would you live in the capital like David? Or do you find a country retreat in Saudi Arabia or the best of both?

Khalid Alajlan (06:54)

I think I'm a little bit of a city person. I love Riyadh and my family is in Riyadh.

Katharine McLennan (06:57)

city.

Khalid Alajlan (07:00)

I used to work in telecom before and I'm leaning toward the tech sector in general. I love tech. I've loved tech ever since I was a young kid. I grew up in the UK and I appreciated tech and how it made me reach family back home with calls or at the time messengers and all that. So this is me.

Katharine McLennan (07:03)

Ugh.

David, one of the things that we talk with our class is about the fact that we emerged into the very beginning of, internet, or at least the retail, everyone internet. I'm

David Farlow (07:26)

you

Katharine McLennan (07:29)

in awe of you guys, Khaled, for the exposure you guys have of such a different world. I don't know, David, how are you seeing the new world emerging, both from the eyes of London and from the eyes of Ireland? Anything you're seeing,

David Farlow (07:44)

I reflect often on the journey of Internet and AI and big data and so on. So I remember being in the computer lab going, know, gosh, why do I want to see Washington state's, you know, budget on mosaic?

I didn't really get it. Three years later, I leave consulting and somebody says, oh, you should go interview to do strategy at eBay. And I go, eBay is just like one of six internet auction companies. I'm not best at getting the whole internet. then as you watch, there's interesting dynamics. One is the people who make the money at the beginning tend to be the infrastructure people.

Katharine McLennan (08:10)

Yeah.

David Farlow (08:28)

It's kind of like Cisco was really big when we left and Cisco was doing the writing. And then it goes on to the set of the software providers and then it gets onto the application bit. And you see that a little bit at the minute because it's Nvidia who's making all these like, hey, they're the Nvidia. But I think that if we're to pass on an observation to people at school at the minute is the importance of understanding how things work. So if I give an example.

I've done some work in ag tech. I've done a couple of times over the years. I've looked for profitable ag tech opportunities. Once one for a farming publisher that wants to get used it's data, you know, like we've got data. do we sell the data and how do we get into it? And then once for a provider of agriculture labor, which had a leading software company, but it's like each time you go.

This makes the world better. Ag tech makes the world better. And a lot of money went into it because it's like big data and feed the world. And there's a billion people, the big themes. But the snag is the people who came in in the first wave was often bright Harvard Stanford MBAs and say, this is the way the world should work. And the farmer sat there and went, that's not the way our world works. You're not solving our problem. That sounds really cool, but you're not solving our problem.

there's this danger when things about especially MBAs are guilty, and I probably was too, the word should work this way rather than going, solve my problem for me. that's, there's a lot of danger and kind of like, oof, it's, how do you, but that requires you to have good knowledge of the market you're trying to help. And that in some ways goes to AI because people go, you know, I have, I'm working in FinTech at the minute and I have a

Katharine McLennan (10:01)

⁓ filters.

David Farlow (10:21)

My firm was a bright young group of AI programmers who go like, yeah, we can get a chat bot to answer all the questions. And you're going, no, you're not. Because it's like, we just chained up all the old chats and you're like, okay, it's generative AI, can throw up anything. You don't really understand it. The thing is the way it will work really well is it will present what they think it should say to the person who's doing the chat.

And they will, know, 80 % of time, they'll say great tick, right? And they will train the AI better that way. It'll get better and better over time. But AI is like a puppy you need to train. And you don't see people trying to do the training particularly well. They just think I can get to an answer and just kind of miraculously just do everything for me. So it gets into, and I don't see how this plays out because obviously the big companies have all the data, but how do you make

money or how do you get solutions? Something you can sell where you've trained something for other people's benefits. So you can see how it helps people. Cause when it was powerful phase, I think I've seen over the years is taking the robot out of the human. We all use AI to help make ourselves more productive, but I can't see it replacing us yet. Even though it says go get more and more intelligent. You're like, it might do, but it's still throughout responses and not getting

what we want and still see the judgment and the value of what is doing. So that's a very quick run through of internet through big data and the little dead end that was at a dead end, but the current slow lane of blockchain that was going to change the world so many times.

Katharine McLennan (11:48)

off.

⁓ yes, but blockchain

became crypto, right?

David Farlow (12:02)

Well, that's

one route, but people are going, but it's going to be great for contracts because you can always see what the chain is, but it's just so inefficient with energy. And then that's the other thing is in Ireland, data centers use up 17 % of our national energy, 17%. generator either. So it's kind of the AI is like, what's your carbon footprint? Sort of you're hinting at it.

Katharine McLennan (12:13)

Yeah.

17 %

David Farlow (12:29)

There's a world where it's kind of almost free to do all these AI searches and they're a lot better, but you know, we live in an interesting time.

Katharine McLennan (12:35)

David, you're... All

So call it, what is it about Saudi Arabia that's calling you back?

Khalid Alajlan (12:42)

So what calls me back, I feel like there is a window of opportunity that is really promising and being a part of the change that's happening there. I believe that there is no single country that has this amount of growth in that short of period right now at this moment. China was in the past, a lot of countries in the past, but I believe the Middle East and specifically Saudi Arabia are doing a transformational journey and I want to be a part of it.

I've seen like a lot of changes. I've seen a lot of things. Before going into Stanford, I've worked a little bit and I've seen a lot of some of those things, but I feel like there's a lot more room to do that. And it's encouraging seeing a lot of like, think 50 % of the Saudi population is less than 35 years. So that energy, that eagerness to change, that eagerness to grow. And also we have been

catching up with a lot of things. And there's just excitement, energy, room to grow that in the past, I thought I looked at the Silicon Valley in a similar vein, but the Silicon Valley is leading there. But Saudi Arabia is trying to catch up and reach that point.

Katharine McLennan (13:56)

That's what my instincts and a little bit of my reading hears and it almost reminds me David of the gosh what decade was that the Irish Tigers What was that that that was probably?

David Farlow (14:07)

That was back in

the early 2000s when we blew up. We thought we'd conquered the world and over invested in real estate and then crashed heavily. yeah, we had a huge real estate boom and everyone borrowed money and we ended up with over building and we owed several hundred percent of GDP and we bailed the bank site much more than anyone else. It's a real scar on the country.

Katharine McLennan (14:14)

Real estate!

Well, but

the technology that you guys attracted because of various tax regimes. ⁓

David Farlow (14:35)

Yeah,

that was the whole offering low corporation tax because also we had a very well-educated workforce, often emigrated. Plus we had good golf courses, the Americans liked that too.

Katharine McLennan (14:42)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah,

let's get good golf courses, but.

David Farlow (14:49)

Oh, don't

underestimate the power of the golf course.

Katharine McLennan (14:52)

back to the infrastructure of Ireland and what attracted it, attracted to people. Khaled, are you also here that your education levels are fantastic?

What is it about Saudi Arabia? I don't know if it's the economics, the government, the education, the social. What is the mix that's happening right now that's allowing you guys to be where you are?

Khalid Alajlan (15:18)

I think the perfect mix is having a clear idea where we want to go. So in 2015, 2016, we launched Vision in 2030. And at that time, it was something that is new, something that is different, something that

I think a lot of people didn't imagine what happened on ground. And I think that was changed quickly. And like, if you ask any person right now, they would say, we are, we want to do more even, we want to reach more. And if you look at the metrics we have seen, some of them fell short, but a lot of them either met or exceeded. And I still believe there's a lot of room to go there. So having a clear vision and strategy to go somewhere that the whole country is aligned to.

as well as having many sectors to develop. Like I mentioned, the tourism sector hasn't started till 2018, so there is a lot of room to grow there. Swartz industry also is another sport. So you can name many sectors that have that potential. And there are some sectors that are developed, such as the energy sector, the petrochemicals, that we want to diversify from to gain more.

Katharine McLennan (16:23)

would be interesting to watch your diversification. Australia, where I am, has always been the lucky country because of our resources. And we are almost the least diversified country that still has the wealth per GDP. So diversification to a strategy. What makes the strategy so well known? Are the youth of your country understanding that strategy?

Khalid Alajlan (16:47)

I think the good thing is there's a good alignment, which wasn't present in the past. So that alignment makes the government, different ministries really work together on common goals. And at the same time, it's communicated really well across levels and understood. And the youth is trying to work for it, but trying to find also opportunities. So I was lucky to work at a startup in the summer and I've never imagined myself working at a startup in Saudi.

if you ask me like 10 years ago. that like the entrepreneurship scene is there to find the gaps to reach that vision or to reach that target. There's the government part, which is the different ministries working to common goals and working together.

Katharine McLennan (17:26)

Yeah, and I go back almost to the US, gosh, I think it was the 1950s when one of the big institutions, DARPA, actually were the seed to the Silicon Valley and how important government is to get those startups going, but the right environment.

David Farlow (17:42)

but, but Katherine, think we have, and Kelly, you'll have a great perspective on this. From my understanding, Saudi is more like Singapore and China in being, in being government led. Our governments are short term resource, poor, over-promised, not, not used, you know, well,

Katharine McLennan (17:51)

Singapore. Yep.

David Farlow (18:04)

the UK and Ireland are both very bad, but everything is always bad. know, we just love our papers just love to go like the world is falling apart, even though we're richer, we're better off, we're healthier, everything's bad. know, whereas, whereas, you know, when you're in a fast growth economy, whether it be, dare I say, somewhere like Florida or society, there's that positive view of there's growth, we're growing, it's lifting and having a government that's set up.

Katharine McLennan (18:11)

What's most cynical?

David Farlow (18:30)

a 2030 vision and going forward is a very different world where the capital is being deployed by the government and directed and probably as Singapore hiring the brightest and the best to help lead that. And it's a common effort. But you live it. you tell us more about what you think makes it successful because it's very different from the US and the UK.

Khalid Alajlan (18:51)

So the way I look at it, it's like this similar to the dilemma between private and public companies, where there is this notion that public companies focus from quarter to quarter. And if you look at it at a government level, it may be like election to election sort of point of view or to mid elections. And whereas private company, you have the leverage of thinking long term thinking about where you want to be 10 years later or 15 years later.

David Farlow (19:01)

Yep.

Khalid Alajlan (19:18)

And I think this really helps in growing the country, thinking, not being short-sighted and thinking about long-term goals. And maybe sometimes you need to sacrifice the short-term to grow further in the long-term. So I think that this is the way I look at it. It's similar to the dilemma between private and public companies.

why not stay in the US versus Saudi? And this is a question that I thought about during the last two years. And I think what makes Saudi really attractive is I feel like there's more impact that I can do there.

Katharine McLennan (19:38)

thank you.

Khalid Alajlan (19:50)

And if I'm going to look at it from the US perspective, if I want to stay in the US, I want to stay a shorter term to learn something different that I'm not going to experience in the future and then move back to Saudi. So either way, is like the moving back, back part will be within either zero to two years. And I think I've chosen to go back and because I see I want to capture the opportunity as soon as possible.

Katharine McLennan (20:16)

And it's almost like, dare I say, the prodigal son returning. I don't know if you have that fable in your culture, but we have a fable of the prodigal son returning after he's been on adventures or even Ulysses or those, the return of the heroes. So, David, you, as I recall, remind me, you went back to the UK

David Farlow (20:42)

I went back after three years, I came back again, I went back after 10 again, I've been back and forth

Katharine McLennan (20:47)

So one of the views you said, watch for the Stanford Harvard type of view when you return home. And I'm just imagining the farmers and ag tech that you're with. Do you remember what you felt like?

David Farlow (21:00)

Harvard has the brand Stanford and get people to go, that's nice. but there was an interesting dynamic in the States. Cause like, obviously worked in States for a long time. There was a curiosity. People go like, you're you went to Stanford. You'll have bright ideas. Come chat to me. There was a hunger to, it was kind of like, yeah, you're kind of, you'll have interesting things to say and you'll have interesting conversations in the UK. It's it's less.

Katharine McLennan (21:16)

Yeah, yeah.

David Farlow (21:25)

was less like that, for whatever reason. was less like, you've been there. There's a entrepreneurial spirit in the US that's a little bit more open to learn, I think, that I kind of find.

Katharine McLennan (21:36)

Yeah.

And Khaled, that's what you're describing. It's that hunger to learn by this youth population. is there, when you think about education and you think about your choice to go to Stanford, tell us a little bit about how that came about.

David Farlow (21:42)

Yeah.

Khalid Alajlan (21:55)

So funny enough, I had the idea of doing an MBA after electrical engineering. So I did electrical engineering in undergrad. And I have this idea since high school, which was pretty early. Cause I didn't want to be super technical. I wanted to be somewhere in the middle between technical and business. And during high school, I thought about since I grew up in the UK, my English was quite good and all that. So should I move to the U S for undergrad or should I wait until the MBA?

And I made that decision after consulting my father to go for an MBA and try and apply to a top school. Going to Stanford specifically is for some reason, one of them is I've never been to the West Coast and I want to see the West Coast and the beautiful weather here. Another reason is the alumni network, which is in Saudi and also outside of Saudi. But specifically for me in Saudi, the alumni network made a huge decision. It is

so close together uptight. I see a lot of them as mentors, as people that I aspire to be like, and it has a different aura. As David mentioned, it's not as famous as Harvard, I believe, in the whole MENA region, but it has the people that I want them to know about Stanford will know about Stanford.

And this is the distinction I made when I made the decision.

Katharine McLennan (23:19)

Are you guys seeing the the rise of a particular area that's the Silicon Valley of Saudi?

Khalid Alajlan (23:26)

I'm not sure about that. There is a tendency to try and create a similar environment, but I believe replicating it would be quite tough. would, if I would, I forward the person to make that decision, I would go for another way, but with a similar value, the structures, because Silicon Valley, Silicon Valley, feel like there's only one Silicon Valley. It's like, no matter how many times you try and replicate it, it might be something that is.

Katharine McLennan (23:45)

Tell us.

Khalid Alajlan (23:54)

unattainable or achievable. But if you get close to it, if you get it on your different way that is aligned with the culture, aligned with the narrative in the region, that is, for example, if you have multiple cities, you can do many Silicon Valley's in a way. If you start from ground zero, which is like with different projects, you can maybe replicate some of that, but on a different style. And we're in a new different age, I believe Silicon Valley was there.

and the Antenna era, where, as I mentioned, we're in the AI era. So it's maybe similarities, but overall, there will be huge differences.

David Farlow (24:26)

So Kelly, you mentioned an interesting thing I wanted to explore around culture. If I just tell the background, when we were at the GSB, it claimed to be very international, because 40 % of people are international, but most international folks had actually been to high school in the States, including myself even for a brief while. And then it's very international because we had one international case study in each of our classes.

Katharine McLennan (24:51)

Are you kidding?

David Farlow (24:52)

Yeah, there's always that, this is the international case, yay. And then we had the global management program, but basically that was the professors wanted people to work harder. So you had to take 108 credits to the GMP was based on the main requirement. That's what I remember anyway of it. But when one's working in different cultures and I've worked in Eastern Europe and India and other places and you go like,

Khalid Alajlan (25:05)

Thank

David Farlow (25:15)

Stanford did not prepare you for this. ⁓ Has Stanford got any better? Because obviously you work in a very different culture in society. People's way of community, English may be spoken, people have different expectations, there's ways and speed that things move at and how people signal things and in the language. Has Stanford kind of got a bit more international or not? Or is it still faced with being very US centric?

Katharine McLennan (25:17)

No.

Khalid Alajlan (25:41)

So I believe it's still US centric, I from what you said to me, I see some improvements. There are more like case studies on international, but I don't feel there are enough ⁓ classes that are international. There are some classes that are internationally related. I think the majority of them, if not all, are taught by people from the US or that have the US focus that look at it from the lens of the US. So I feel like there is a lot of room to improve.

David Farlow (25:43)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Khalid Alajlan (26:08)

There have been like global study trips, which has been a good addition. I'm not sure they were there back then or not, but I feel like those really show you how countries are. For example, I went to Vietnam, Singapore, and I've never been to East Asia and I've seen how things are on the ground. As you mentioned, this is something that is not taught in classrooms, it's taught in experiences and like you being on the ground. Hopefully like...

David Farlow (26:13)

Yeah.

Khalid Alajlan (26:32)

there will be more. One of the reasons that we did this track to Saudi was this reason. It's like we wanted people to see how it's different and how it is out there rather than just looking at it from I don't know how many miles away. So there's still room for improvement if I'm going to answer that question.

Katharine McLennan (26:53)

talking to the 25 of you guys so far is maybe as a result of your generation and the internet and the education, but the travel as well. David, you might have gone to Eastern Europe, but that was a far notion. know, 1989 is when the wall came down in Berlin. But one of your classmates said, yeah, no, I'm going to go to Kazakhstan next.

do you guys want to attract the type of people that you're meeting at Stanford or other technologists into Saudi? Is there encouragement to get those people over in immigration?

Khalid Alajlan (27:31)

I believe so. is like, there's a huge expat community in Saudi already, but like the high caliber talented, mean, who wouldn't want those people to work in their country and improve it. And at the same time, I believe it will develop the country in, especially when you're at a time of a change in a high pace, high pace environment. I think it would add value.

we have been to multiple places. When we did, for example, the trek, it's a Saudi specific. There is an appetite to have more people. There are a lot of people, for example, the Red Sea Global Company in Saudi, which is the Maldives of Saudi on the Red Sea. The CEO is an expat. So you can see that in many things. also, Dereia, which is

Katharine McLennan (28:14)

Here's the next part.

Khalid Alajlan (28:16)

The CEO is US, Jerry and Zillow, and like it's a heritage historical place, but he understands, it brings the experience and understands the culture and the nature of Saudi to kind of bridge both gaps.

Katharine McLennan (28:29)

I'm already sitting here getting excited for your country. Because I was remembering as we left Stanford and the wall came down and the Eastern Europe opened up Israel and Berlin became quite the, at least many, Silicon Valley's

David, have you been to Saudi Arabia?

David Farlow (28:48)

I have not, I've been to some of the other Emirates, but not to Saudi itself.

Katharine McLennan (28:51)

Yeah, yeah,

Khalid Alajlan (28:52)

Well, if you

ever go there, let me know. I'd be happy to show you around.

David Farlow (28:57)

No,

Katharine McLennan (28:57)

that's the power of the Stanford connection, Colleen, you'll find over 30 years. I'm again, excited for you about the network you have in Saudi, but the network you have globally. David, what struck you about that alumni network and how it's played over the last 30 years?

David Farlow (29:07)

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, people are friendly. It opens doors to have interesting conversations. But if I just chip my shoulder about Harvard, wherever you go, there's like 10 times more to Harvard people. I think in our year, there ended up being more Harvard people come to the Bay Area than the Stanford people who remained there. And most of us remained there. But I'm going to join the dots in an interesting way here. In Ireland, in people who are in their 20s,

Katharine McLennan (29:19)

Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Khalid Alajlan (29:33)

Yeah. ⁓

David Farlow (29:45)

are still emigrating like crazy. Even though we have a full employment here, people in their 20s, late 20s even, are traveling to teach, do medicine, whatever else, both in the Middle East and Australia.

A lot will come back, but it's interesting that these are the two places in the world that they go. There's opportunity and they are welcome. There's large expat communities that welcome them and it fits well with both to head off that way.

Katharine McLennan (30:22)

It's exciting to have a long-term view that is oriented toward people and economy. And so what does your father, your family, your generations, how do they take that? Are they excited as well as the youth?

Khalid Alajlan (30:40)

I believe yes. mean, change is not easy anywhere and everywhere. So there is like this shock of change initially, but I believe there is excitement. is room for opportunities. Like you can speak with anyone right now and they say, okay, I want to make a, do a startup and start a company. And like, wouldn't be something that is not achievable. Like doing a unicorn is something that may happen.

with higher probability. If you spoke about that like 10, 15 years ago, it's like maybe go just work in a government job or do a private sector job that is more easier to do. And like there's no room for opportunity. So I think the narrative has shifted and there is excitement from multiple generations, which is like a little bit surprising for me, but it is.

refreshing to see the excitement even like older people's 40, 50 years old and plus they would go on and take advantage of those opportunities if it's compared to our generation where it's like we were so lucky enough to be just starting at that opportunity.

Katharine McLennan (31:40)

And 50 % of the population, that's a powerhouse. The capital to Saudi, where does the money come for your small startups, for your investments, for your, is it international base of investment coming in? Or is it local? You guys absolutely have the resources.

Khalid Alajlan (32:02)

I think it's a mixture of both. I have a belief that it still hasn't matured or steadied in the right direction and they're still figuring it out because we're in the early stages. But a bunch of it comes from locally from either government incentives or even like private investors locally. Also, some of it is from foreign investment and both in the startup and in the investor set. it's like

some startups choose to open up in Saudi. For example, they're based in Egypt, they're based in other countries, neighboring countries, and they would think about Saudi as the next market to expand and grow.

Katharine McLennan (32:41)

David, when we graduated, so many of us, I don't know what percentage went in startup. Obviously, Stanford was so exciting about Stanford startups, but many of us did the conservative consulting and investment banking.

Khalid Alajlan (32:40)

Okay.

Katharine McLennan (32:57)

your class collate is very different. How do you see that changing in the type of people that are coming to London, that are of the Stanford, Harvard, and young people that you come across? David, have you seen that change, that appetite, small startup versus small

David Farlow (33:12)

Well, but

if you're going to go to London, you're probably not going to do it with a startup, because the startup is not going to recruit you from Stanford to come to London to sponsor your visa. So you're less likely to get it. And also, the advantage of doing a startup in the States is you have just such a market as well. It's a fast growing market and it has the efficiencies of the capital, et cetera, as well.

Katharine McLennan (33:21)

No, exactly. Yep.

Yep, true, yep, yep.

David Farlow (33:40)

Yeah. But Khaled, if we go a little bit to the politics, but not really talk about it, but to the bit of you're in the States, Catherine and I are not. I spent a lot of my time explaining to people why Trump is not mad. Well, he is mad, but he's not as crazy because we think he's a joke. mean, our national broadcasters in Ireland and England go like, look at the crazy thing he's doing. You go like, he's not crazy. You know.

Raising a tariff is actually like a, he's raised a 10 % value added tax or an 8 % value added tax in the country. He's just raised more money for himself. But I'm not speaking defensive of him, but he's not, but we don't take him seriously. But it's more to go, or has it really changed the business environment that people are looking at from Stanford? Because you never bet against the States. The States is so entrepreneurial. The people are so friendly and, you know, having worked in many places across the States.

The view from outside the world is like, oh, it's all people wearing red baseball caps. They're like, no, it's not. And the people who even voted for Trump, we would still like them to speak to them because they have their rational reasons. Anyway, not going to be politic. Tell us about the business environment, how people are feeling about what it means. media circus we have at the minute, because he's getting media circus attention.

Khalid Alajlan (34:39)

Mm-hmm.

Katharine McLennan (34:44)

Mm. Mm.

Khalid Alajlan (34:58)

So I agree with you in terms of like the US has the right institutions for it not to be hurt by short-term policies or short-term things. It's really well at its core. has really good foundations. But I feel like this is a time of uncertainty. I feel like nobody knows what's happening even here.

There is lot of turbulence and certainty how things will change. And we've seen it in the past few months, a lot of changes happening like multiple times each week, which is I've never seen it before. I don't know if it happens before, ⁓ but there's a lot of uncertainty. People are trying to continue as is and like not trying, trying to just not focus on the noise and focus on what they can do from business end. I feel

David Farlow (35:36)

Yep.

Khalid Alajlan (35:47)

The rational thing for me is to wait and see how it goes. Because you cannot stop everything or change everything. You're not knowing with this uncertainty. So this is what I sense from the environment right here.

Katharine McLennan (36:02)

And that's why I think it's so interesting. And I'm being naive here with Saudi. If you guys have the natural resources to then diversify the economy, I wonder if you're somewhat harbored, protected

Khalid Alajlan (36:15)

I think it has more clarity. Yes, we have like the majority of our economies and the oil and like oil prices have been fluctuating right now. But overall, it's like, know, where where everybody has their minds that and where they want to head. And this is this for me makes more clarity more. There's not as much uncertainty that I feel like it makes you do business with more confidence, even though if you're going to make a mistake.

like you can correct it later but it's like at least you know where where everything is is set.

Katharine McLennan (36:47)

David, and I'm thinking about education now, kind of going back and David had the honor to go to Cambridge and then Stanford and the education there in our what, 1990s, late 80s. I wonder in your imagination, David, what allowed us to use that education other than the name, I'm kind of thinking about the content of Stanford and

what it taught us

David Farlow (37:13)

So, but I didn't take, I managed to get out of operations class, but I remember having discussions with people who did operations. And one of the exercises was what would you insource, outsource of business school? And essentially, because you'd outsource the janitorial services and the facilities management, even the teaching. And I think that where people got to was basically,

you keep the admissions department. Because essentially, that's your quality control. And it's about the brand. Because Kath, what do you remember very much, I remember imposter syndrome, that's about it, from what you learned? So what we're doing 30 years later, our paths have been crazily different. But it's not about what you learn in school.

It shows you lots of things and you get to think about lots of different situations and a way to think through things. unless you did finance and you bond duration or something, it's not about what you learn. Very rarely. It's just a great melting pot to be from.

Katharine McLennan (38:13)

That is it.

What do you

think, Khaled?

Khalid Alajlan (38:22)

I heard a sentence recently from an alumni, think, it was, makes you learn how to learn. How do you feel about that sentence and notion?

Katharine McLennan (38:32)

Thanks, David.

David Farlow (38:33)

Well, it teaches you to simulate large amounts of information, trying to read a case study as quickly as possible and try to get by with 20 minutes of work, depending on how your attitude is towards your study. But it puts your son, it's so different from college. You're in an environment where everyone's talk about business, typically. You're talking about business and you're just learning. It's like, Caleb, we're just naturally interested learning about what's happening in Saudi Arabia.

Khalid Alajlan (38:43)

Thank

David Farlow (38:58)

And you you're just a learner from us. it's just, there's that, it's self-selecting melting pot of those who want to just learn and put bits together and you're constantly turning things around a little bit. So I think it's, it's a mixture of, you know, environment. And the professors are challenging you as well and making you think differently. So I think it's a mixture of things. Again, it's an environment that you get put into. And partly because it's,

Khalid Alajlan (38:58)

Mmm.

David Farlow (39:27)

I think it also helps that it's particularly not about you're not going to fail. your life is not going to be changed by being an RGA scholar necessarily. it's just, you know, I think it's a very safe environment to do that in.

Katharine McLennan (39:39)

Yeah.

And David, one of the things, in fact, to call it on that, even the inhalation of cases as fast as possible. Now, you guys use AI. You're encouraged to use AI, which I think is fantastic. My understanding. So how does AI turn up in education over the last two years at Stanford?

Khalid Alajlan (39:58)

⁓

one of the fascinating things is I came here not knowing like AI would play a factor. And right in the first, like middle of the first quarter, or I think it was this, yeah, the first quarter I had optimization and simulation modeling. Like the professor went in and said, please use AI and tell me how it reacts to those situations. And just let's do a Google sheet and like see how the reactions, let's learn from each other about it. And I was struck like, wow, I didn't expect that to happen so soon.

so going back to the last two years, I think it plays an essential part. learning about it, I think is one of the most valuable skills that I have learned at Stanford. because I think it's going to reshape the future of work, the future of everything. So knowing how to deal with that, speak the language, it's like the language of coding, but we're in a new era, which is AI. So if you know that language, if you had to have a head start, know how to deal with it.

know how to use it efficiently, it is really good. And I think across most classes, not all of them allow AI, but most of them, I think has added a value, a different level of conversation, a different level of thinking about things. And I cannot remember a class that we didn't bring up AI. And even if it's a politics class, like US China class or whatever, there is AI as a important element.

Katharine McLennan (41:21)

do you see, the quality of the conversation in the classroom. So you've crunched the cases with AI. My hope is that that gives you more space to reflect and come up with new ideas. Is that so?

Khalid Alajlan (41:34)

I have the same hope and I have my approach to it as in a similar fashion. It's trying to not use AI as the brain, but use it as a tool rather to structure and better like another person that's going to give you counter arguments that are going to give you a different flow, give you

Katharine McLennan (41:36)

Bye!

Khalid Alajlan (41:57)

more structure and like you can think more about things. So the way I look at it, it's better to have discussions with the AI itself and the language model rather than just dumping everything and saying, give me the answers.

Katharine McLennan (42:09)

I love dumping. That's a great verb. How's it showing up now in the work you're doing, David?

David Farlow (42:14)

I think I mentioned before, we have the team that's trying to build the chatbot that gives the perfect answers. I'm sitting there going, yeah, and I'm going, you know, let's just keep a human in the loop and it'll work much better for us.

Katharine McLennan (42:19)

The chat box, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we still need

We still need elders to remind them there's wisdom to be had.

David Farlow (42:27)

Well, it's, yeah.

Khalid, you have much more of a chance. So even just some simple tactical questions, are you guys still using chat GPT or the different tools you use for different aspects of?

Khalid Alajlan (42:42)

I think we learned to know that there are differences even time-wise. For example, certain periods you'd find chat GPT really good at some aspects, but two months later you find Claude surpassing it in this specific aspect. Another point is different LLMs are good at different things. For example, you use a certain LLM just like to...

refined writing, and you would do another LLM just to do research, another LLM to like focus on analyzing data. So it's more of trying to work with the ecosystem as a whole, rather than just focusing on one, I don't think you get the most value out of that.

Katharine McLennan (43:23)

David, when we came out of Stanford, we were still having debates about how we were going to use this thing. So we were not the same maturity that you guys are with AI, even though it's nascent. But is the internet, the Google, the way we search, the way we search information,

Does that become defunct or change?

David Farlow (43:45)

Well, there's two angles in that. One is, I can't remember what it's called, propensity, the one that tells you here's the source is very valuable search tool to do that. So, you know, definitely, Google's threatened by that. You know, it's very useful to have the synthesis rather than have to go into 40 pages to find something. However, I will caution, you know, Lisa, my wife does commercial due diligence. And, you know, she uses the old school tactic of speaking to people.

Khalid Alajlan (43:52)

perplexity.

Katharine McLennan (43:53)

Yeah. Yeah.

speaking.

David Farlow (44:13)

And he does marketplace

interviewing people. You get so much more insight in speaking to people than just Googling and expecting, I can't find an internet, therefore it's not there. It goes back to doing your business research on ideas. You learn so much more by actually engaging and speaking with people than, I've researched it and found the answer on the internet and what other people have said. I will caution to that side of, yes. If you think about it, because...

I do, because I was a consulting after business school, was very little, the databases of information were proprietary. Nobody got so much information or fingertips. The Google did that. No AI is a layer on top of that to help us synthesize it. But we still have to match it to something. And, know, does the LLM model come with the knowledge or what your knowledge or, you know, if I were, if I were to use LLM to research things in Saudi Arabia and the culture there.

It would tell me stuff, but I think you would very quickly go like, well, David, it says that, you do you prepare for a business meeting inside? You know, you're like, yeah, I get some good insight, but you go like, yes, wow, say that, but you're missing some of the nuance and the lived experience of that. I think that's, know, actually AI is, you know, it's another iteration is helping us synthesize all this information, but there's still a lot of perspective to bring.

Katharine McLennan (45:08)

Well, David.

Khalid Alajlan (45:09)

Thank

Katharine McLennan (45:15)

Ha

and

Synthesize is a great word, Karla. In your economy there's synthesis and creation,

how do you go from synthesis to creativity?

Khalid Alajlan (45:40)

Yeah, I think this is an important part. I don't know exactly how that's going to happen, but I feel like originality is something important. It's good to pick up things from where people left off, but it's not always the right way. Sometimes because of necessity of time, necessity of things at that time, they were designed this way. So you have to think them through rather than just dive into implementation. So this is how I hope things go. And I feel I have...

I have good hope and good outlook that this is the way we're trying to go with mixing between both of learning from other people and pick where they left off, plus bringing originality to ideas.

Katharine McLennan (46:22)

Just having that context, Carla, gives me great hope that you're asking that question, the creativity. David, we had these little classes called creativity or something. I can't even remember what it was called, but there was very little emphasis based on getting out there talking to people, getting exposed to the poets and the homemakers and the engineers, philosophers, et cetera.

So I hope, I don't know, what do you think about creativity in the business world?

David Farlow (46:55)

Well,

I'm a little bit more of the op side, but it's kind of, I'm a big believer innovation is often bringing together two existing ideas and linking them. You know, it's rarely something completely original, but you know, for goodness sake, if you go to Steve Jobs, the iPad, it suddenly took the computer out of the, you if I go to Agtech.

Katharine McLennan (47:03)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like our brain, our brain. Yeah.

David Farlow (47:18)

took the computer out having to be in the home. Something that iPad could go out on the farm. These things just bring change to the world in a way that we don't necessarily see. So originality is an interesting word. It's to bring it together different ideas. It works well.

Katharine McLennan (47:38)

Yeah, and I think

how do you see that play in terms of the philosophy built of Saudi? And does that still show through in the growth that you guys are going to to?

Khalid Alajlan (47:51)

I think it's important to connect to the history. think it's, you have many lessons, you have many fascinating things to learn from them, or even just to see them and make you think on it on a different level. I think it's important. This is why some of the places in Saudi are valued because of their historical and heritage value. For example, you can look at Al-Ula which is in Saudi, which is

the 3,000 year plus place that's being preserved for that, it's being visited and created as a tourist attraction for a purpose that is to see how things were, to preserve them, to try and learn more about. There are a lot of discoveries that have happened in the previous years from these ages and they're trying to discover more. And even if we're going to the modern history and the Riyadh, which is

a 300 year start of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia place or the original capital of Saudi Arabia. It's still being preserved and taught how things were back then. What are the influences, why things were. And so I think connecting those pieces with today is essential because I am a true believer that modernity, urban cities shouldn't be the same like.

shouldn't take a template of it. Originality, heritage is important to keep there. And mixing it with the modern era is important.

David Farlow (49:17)

So let me

throw in a brain teaser. This is on my mind today, because we're talking about innovation. And you think about innovation, and then I think about Skype is shut down today. And I'm going, was what used to be you. Why wasn't it WhatsApp and Zoom put together? Because it provided all those things. So what about it? Why did Skype not become the?

Katharine McLennan (49:26)

⁓

David Farlow (49:37)

Is it the fact that they didn't do text messaging very well? Because WhatsApp became the international way of communicating for people overseas. It destroyed telecoms texting revenues. It should have been Zoom, but it didn't. But it had it all. had the perfect... So it was innovative, but it didn't take off. So I just use that as an example of the innovation of WhatsApp and innovation of Zoom.

Katharine McLennan (49:50)

fascinating.

David Farlow (50:03)

was already there. there's something in it that they somehow managed to do. Maybe just the tech stack was wrong for Skype,

Katharine McLennan (50:10)

There's not many people that can do that integrated thinking. And I, I'm fascinated by that. I could talk to you guys for hours.

But what are you most excited about at this present time, about wrapping up Stanford and going to your home?

Khalid Alajlan (50:25)

I'm going to learn. I'm going to continue to grow. But what I'm most excited about is just to make an impact on two levels. One is just to improve things in Saudi that I can improve in my, in my major or in my industry. And

also expand globally. Another thing is trying to enable young talent also in Saudi. This is a passion of mine and I have been an MBA ambassador during my time here. I have been MENA club co-president and these things really bring energy to me and hopefully I can do that and maybe whether it's like getting people into Stanford from my home country or just like trying to improve talents there and being

sort of a mentor or leader there is exciting.

Katharine McLennan (51:11)

jeez. I don't know if I was that legacy oriented when I left. really am so inspired. Where would you, David, you finish up. your inspiration.

David Farlow (51:22)

Catherine, I've got to share and I've got to advocate. I interviewed

for Stanford undergrad. I did the alumni interviews because there's very few people who go to Stanford and then return to Ireland. They generally stay in the States. But it's such a privilege because I spoke to virtually all the applicants over the last 10, 15 years. They're great kids.

Katharine McLennan (51:31)

Yeah.

David Farlow (51:43)

Most of them have no chance of getting in. I it's a 4 % accept rate, you know, but it's just so uplifting that what they want to do. And, and it goes to, you know, the interview you have with Peter, it's just like, you can also just do a lot of good by A, sharing a little bit about Stanford, but B, just give them bit of a boost because they're all great people and just tell them they're great people. And for them to hear that from someone, it's just great. You know, so I, I do some of the

Obviously, Khaled, you're gonna do it for the GSB, but think about doing it for the undergrad as well, cuz there may not be that many others around. But it is very rewarding in terms of those short conversations with them both

Katharine McLennan (52:21)

listening to Khaled and reflecting over 30 years, how would we have changed when we graduated? Was there something in our philosophy that you would have liked to make or as you started out 30 years ago?

David Farlow (52:36)

the observation. Because I remember when the advisory board came to visit, they were all 30 plus years alum, and you went, how on earth did they end up where they were? Because they took all these paths, and they weren't 30 years at Goldman or 30 years at Bain. They'd done this, and then done this, and then done this in telecom, and done this here. And you go, how does that happen? And then you discover, oh, 30 years later, oh, everyone's done.

And so it's kind of, and realizing also to avoid the little bit of envy, because not everyone can be the Steve Jervitsen or Jeff Scholl of the year. It's just kind of, yeah, there'll be some people who'll be breakout and they'll do whatever and that'll be great. But it's amongst, there's just lots of good people, do lots of good stuff. There's no set path through it. There's no, people feel,

Katharine McLennan (53:23)

Awesome.

David Farlow (53:28)

I've got to do after two years, I've got to be this level and this level are starting this. And it's like, no, you know, we all move through a different path and we're just constantly building and gathering masses we really love. So.

Katharine McLennan (53:40)

Amen to that.