Episode 10: But What Are You? Finding Identity Through Adoption and Resilience

From a cardboard box in a war zone to inspiring others around the world.

Episode 10 of The Resilience Files features the incredible story of Barton C. Williams—a Vietnam War adoptee who arrived in Australia through Operation Babylift and spent decades navigating questions about identity, belonging, and purpose.

Instead of letting life's uncertainties define him, Barton transformed them into fuel for growth, resilience, and service. Today, he helps others discover the strength they already have within themselves through storytelling, education, athletics, and advocacy.

His story is a powerful reminder that resilience isn't about avoiding hardship—it's about what you choose to do with it.

✨ Your past may shape you, but it does not limit you.

Tune in now and be inspired by a journey of courage, self-discovery, and unwavering resilience.

🎙️ Available now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.

#TheResilienceFiles #Resilience #OperationBabylift #AdoptionAwareness #OvercomingAdversity #MentalResilience #Inspiration #PersonalGrowth #Storytelling #PodcastLife #BartonCWilliams

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

When you feel like life has dealt you a hand of unfair cards, instead of voting, you double down or you stuck in the game. You face battles. You felt broken. But hey, do us a favor. Put your hand on your heart. You feel that? You're still here. Welcome to the Resilience Files Unlocked. Where survival meets transformation. Welcome to the Resilience Files Unlocked, where survival meets transformation. I'm your host, Carrie Bernan's actress stuntwoman. This space was created for honest conversations about survival, reinvention, healing, and the quiet strength it takes to keep going when life doesn't look like what you imagined. I am so excited for our guest today because his story is truly impactful. Some people are born into stories they know. Others spend a lifetime learning how to write their own. Today's guest was born in the final days of the Vietnam War, arrived in Australia through Operation Baby Lift, and grew up carrying questions that never had simple answers. What he found instead was a deeper truth. The resilience isn't about knowing where you came from, it's about deciding who you become. Before we get started, as we always do in the resilience files fashion, we like to read the essay that our guest has shared today. So without further ado, we will do that. Our guest name is Bardin C. Williams. Hi, I'm Barden C. Williams, a 52-year-old bloke coming to you from Chicago, Illinois. By now, you might be thinking, hang on, he doesn't sound American. Well, we haven't heard him yet. We will hear him. He does have an Australian accent, for instance. That's not English either. Is he from New Zealand? Or that other place next door? To right, far jincom start. I'm Australian. But my beginning was a little different from most Aussie kids. I was born in Vietnam in 1975 with the name Wing Van Gu in a loving family who gave me a colorful childhood filled with tough love, hard lessons, and yes, the kind of casual racism that Australia, like many places, has had to reckon with. I don't share that for pity. I share it because it built my resilience and my curiosity about identity and belonging. Growing up and even now, I was constantly asked, where are you from? What's your medical history? What are you? Those questions stayed with me for decades. Eventually they became the seed for my children's book. But what are you? A story that helps kids understand what it feels like to look different, to feel different, and to discover what love, not appearance, is what truly defines a family. Writing that book helped me give meaning to questions that once made me feel small. One of the greatest gifts my adoption journey gave me was an understanding of physical and emotional resilience. At eight years old, I was battling waves as a junior nipper, surf lifesaver on Australian beaches. Years later, the same kid would be I swimming in Lake Michigan in the middle of winter wearing nothing but a pair of Speedos. Yes, still questioning my life choices. Somewhere along the way, I realized something important. When you train the body to handle discomfort, you train the mind to handle life. Today, I blend athletic challenges, education, and storytelling to help people reconnect with their bodies, strengthen their mental resilience, and build confidence in who they are. Whether I'm swimming through icy water, performing on screen, writing books, or speaking to young people, my mission is always the same to help people discover that they are stronger, safer, and more capable than they think. Both mind and body. Arden C. Williams, 2026. Ow, I have chills all over my body. Before we get started, we always like to ask people, how are you feeling today? How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 3:46

I'm doing great. I look out the window here in Chicago and the summer's shining and it looks warm. And that to me, having grown up in Australia, just feels awesome. It looks like a 35-degree or a hundred degree Fahrenheit day as I look out the window. So the sunshine makes me smile. So I'm pretty happy.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

I'm so happy to hear that. That's beautiful. Before we talk about who you become, I want to start at the very beginning because so much of resilience seems to be rooted in questions that started before you even had language for them. First question I would like to ask you is what's the earliest memory you have of realizing your story was different from other kids?

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Right. Great question. I was adopted at the age of so-called three years of age. And what's really interesting is as an adult, I'm only learning more about my adoption. The earliest I can remember is I remember my mother, mother who just recently or the last two years has passed, who I was super close to. She took this photo of my brother, my adoptive brother and myself, and I'm holding the adoption papers. And I was at least four years of age. And I remember mum giving giving me that photo when I was younger. I'm sure she didn't give it to me when when like have Polaroids in the 70s, but I remember her handing it to me. So to answer that question, I'd have to say it was it'd be four or five years of age that I recall, hey, I'm standing next to my brother, mum's taking a photo. This is pretty special, and this piece of paper says that I belong to their family. Did I process it maybe not correctly? Probably you know, that's probably the the situation is that I knew it was something to do with this family, and then I belonged to that family, and I knew that I I was different. I mean, my brother had brown hair, was quite tall compared to me. My parents were blue-eyed and brat brown hair, different shaped eyes, different coloured skin. So of course, f uh from a young age, I would have to say maybe four or five, as I recognized how I was different to the rest of the family. But I belonged to them.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah, absolutely. Wow. When did you um so at that moment, is that when you kind of first was introduced to the the notion of being adopted through Operation Babylift, or you just knew that they adopted you in some way?

SPEAKER_02 6:12

I knew because mum was fanatical at collecting information. So she had an album, a photo album with newspaper clippings, which a lot of adoptee parents do now that I've found out and met other adoptees, is that I knew that there was a war and that one and this is one of the challenges we'll get into as as an inter-country adopt ad adoptee, is we're always told, Oh, you're so lucky, you're so lucky. I just remember as a kid getting told, Oh, you're so lucky, you're so lucky because you've been adopted to the Wims family. And I was, I was very, very grateful. I've had one of the best childhoods I could ask for. I was exposed to every sport, I went to a very good school, I lived an amazing lifestyle full of adventure and you know, from everything from motorbikes to water skiing to sailing boats to surfing to I was exposed to an amazing childhood as a young Australian, but constantly it was this you're so lucky, you're so lucky, and that's festered over time. And I guess why I was smiling going, Yes, I am lucky that I've got a motorbike, yes, I am lucky, but I guess it's not until you get older that you sort of sort of go, uh hang on, there's a few unanswered questions here. So that was always festering the back of my head that, you know, hey, uh I fit in here, but I am different. Sort of like a a round peg in a square hole growing up.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Right. Wow. That makes a lot of sense, and I'm sure other people that have been adopted can understand that as well. And I appreciate you being vulnerable and honest with us about that process. And you know, I think people initially want to say because the war is going on and this is happening and that, you know, so many lives were unfortunately lost that you were lucky, but that is not the most appropriate thing to say. Like, you if it was your role, what would you have it? Like you wouldn't have to Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Great question. I mean, yeah, I mean, I I I know mum would say to me, You're so lucky and that you came from the world, and we'd look at the the the newspaper articles, and yes, I mean I was very lucky to be out of Vietnam to to be part of Operation Babylift and to realize that also I was very malnourished. And I've actually got a letter from the orphanage, which it really explains, reinforces how lucky I was. Uh I'll just read you it if you if you don't mind. So this is from the from the orphanage, and it was passed on as background information for my adoptive parents uh who raised me in Adelaide in South Australia. They were given this letter from the orphanage and it says Hwin van Gung, that's my Vietnamese name. Mother left one year ago and left little Gung with his uncle, who is a soldier. The uh the uncle already has eight children of his own to look after, and the child was left at St. Andrews Orphanage six months ago, signing a paper saying that it he is too so my apologies because it's very hard to read the right handwriting, that he is too poor and his mother didn't come back for him and asked for the little one to be released for adoption. U Gung is two years old, has plenty of teeth, very insecure, needs terra a terrible lot of love, some good care and food, is always hungry. But apart from this, is quite normal. Picture, because there's a picture attached, pitcher, not good, because he was sleepy and tired and he is obviously not well. And that's all it is. Not even signed by we don't even know who wrote that letter. It's handwritten, and there's a little picture of me as a baby, and I'll I'll I'll I'll certainly share that with you. But that is the original letter from the orphanage. So that's all the information my parents got other than the adoption paper, which says my my mother's my birth mother's name, and that is it, and and we're assuming it's all legitimate. Um unfortunately, as I've learnt over the years, that not all the information and paperwork from Vietnam, as you can appreciate during a wartime, wasn't overly accurate. But it says here that my mother's name was Hui Twi Tweet, I think that's how you pronounce it, and apologies to the Vietnam the Vietnamese community that uh that hear that and I'm mispronouncing it, but it does say here that um he Hun Van Gung Mail was born on the 30th of March 1973 at Saigon 2. Unknown father but mother, Mrs. Huin T Touet, and that's all we have. And unfortunately that's the only birth date we had, and then we look at other paperwork and we look at the the um the documentation of the Operation Baby Lift, and then it doesn't have a birth date, so we're still we still don't really know when my birth date was, even though that adoption paper shows that it said it was March 30th. The other paperwork contradicts that. So we've been celebrating March 30th, but I know it for one fact that my mother many years ago said to me that they messed up my birth date and it was meant to be October, then they changed it back to March 30th. So we'll never really know. And that's that's kind of cool. Um, I sort of play on it a little bit. You know, I can either be six months either side, so yeah, six months.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Wow. Oh, by my heart. Wow. Um, I'm so thankful you're here with us. I'm so thankful you're sharing your story with us, and just like brings me so much so many tears. And just to imagine, like you're just one of many people that also have to experience this. But um, you know, I'm so grateful that your parents did save you and that the baby lift operation did take place. And just like you reading that letter of the two-year-old young boy that was always hungry and a little shy and just needed all a terrible lot of love. It fills my heart with happiness that you got to receive that love, you know?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

And also brings my heart with sadness that war creates places like this, and um, it's just so many mixed feelings right now. But um, I want to go back to you and ask you how did not knowing your birth date, parents, or medical history shape the way that you saw yourself, or how did your parents navigate that when they did receive you?

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yeah, no, great question. And look, thank you. Um it's it's been a long journey in which the unknown is the best example I can give, Carrie, is that adoption or inter-country adoption to me, and by the way, this is just my viewpoint, and and I'm I'm not saying it's right or wrong, and it's only now I'm as an adult and I'm meeting more adoptees, but inter-country adoption, particularly from Operation Baby Lift back in 1975, to me as Barton Goon Williams, is like a bruise. It's it's like a bruise that we get that you see it for a day, and people go, Oh, you bumped yourself, and there's a bit of oh yeah, a bit of sympathy. And then that bruise, the bruising goes, it fades away, but it still hurts. And that's the best analogy I can give with adoption is that most of the time that bruise is not there, but every now and then a bump it. And that's what adoption has been like for me growing up, and is still like it for me as an adult. It's that constant reminder of the what if. Where are they? Why? That's constantly, and as an adult, it actually perpetuates even more because we start questioning why. Why did mum feel that she just couldn't look after me? Why did mum did she? I mean, I I obviously she gave me to my uncle, and the uncle was strong enough to say, hey, I've got eight children already, I can't look after a ninth, and drop me off to the orphanage. So the questions of why really play in your head. And as a young child, I was just trying to fit in, and I think for so long I just wanted to be like my family and like the majority of the kids that I grew up in, I grew up with at school. I grew up, you know, in the 1970s in a very nice area of Adelaide, which is very white middle class, and I was the token Asian. I think there was two other Asian children in the school in the school, but I had I had white Anglo-Saxon parents and kids kids are kids, you know, they're curious. And I would constantly get, you know, I mean I think the ones that hurt the most were the ones that the kids that didn't know me are from other schools when you go, you know, when you go to sport or you go to events where there's other schools. The kids in the school generally got to know me pretty well and and it wasn't too bad. Occasionally I'd get a bit of subliminal racism, which is that's life. I'm not saying it's right, but the stuff that really hurt that I remember that's I've had to really change my viewpoint and everything and and how I how I fit in was the ching chong. I would get that all the time. And then as I got to high school, I'd be like, I'm gonna take on Barton because you know he's Ching Chong, Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, you know, it was the martial arts. And that really ate at me over time because and it still eats at me a little bit as a as an adult, particularly because I went into the performing arts and into film and stunt work like yourself.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Most people associate Asians with martial arts. And I remember going to mum in my in my in my late teens to early twenties and said, Mum, I I need to learn martial arts. I I'm gonna get the shit beat down at me. So I'm allowed to say that. You know, I I'm gonna get beaten up. She said, Alright, well, if you really feel that way, but it she's she was so anti-violence. But I started training and I I mean I re I got in a few scuffles but not many because I wasn't overly good at it because I was a water baby. I was always exposed to water sports, and from eight years of age I was I was absolutely blown away with water and swing, and that saved me, I guess you would say, is that so you're obviously a f uh stage combat fighter? Yeah, yeah, cool. Growing up I remember distinctly, you know, kids would try to take me on physically and fight me, you know, like, come on, you know martial arts, you're the Jackie Chan, you know the Bruce Lee, and but I was not a good fighter. So I remember going to mum and as I got older and wanting to learn, but I still I didn't I didn't pick it up naturally like I did with water sports, and that's because from a young age, from eight years of age, I was a life-saving nipper where my parents were very much into water sports, being uh you know, in Australia we live very close to water, so my parents saw it as very important that I'd learned to swim and be into water sports. So that sort of saved me, even though I felt again, I felt I don't like using the word substandard. I felt like I'd failed that, you know, even as an Asian, I can't even do martial arts, you know, and that sat with me with a for a long time that I think I was the token Asian at my school. I was definitely a token a token Asian at my high school that couldn't do martial arts that well because at high school there were a lot of Asian students and they all did martial arts, and I was the only one that didn't do it. So it was only later in life that I sort of realized that I had some strength, and I used the strength of the challenges in my life to build confidence and sort of become a bit more niche, and it was only in later life as an adult that I realized this is actually a really good thing, and this did help me navigate through some challenging times, and it's constant. It's it's not a case of it's just at school or it's just when you go to tuitions or it's just when you're doing learning. It's all the time. I mean, from employment to walking down the street, you know, I we get stereotyped. We live in a world of stereotypes, which is great in some ways, but I just wish people would stop and think before they they you know speak out. And unfortunately in the world of social media, people feel like they can speak out more and more and be a bit more abrupt and offend. And I think it's a time where people need to just chill out a little bit and just you know, sit back and just listen more than they speak. And I guess I've done it that as I've got older, as I've realized that hey, you know, uh I'm a water baby, I'm not a martial artist, and people that want to judge me, and you know, they can.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

I mean, I they know judge yourselves, tell them to look in the mirror. No, and I completely agree with you. And people have no room for judgment because we all have a million and one whatever, and it doesn't matter. Like, I don't care what race you are, it's so unique. I think the fact that you being Asian is so amazing. Like, how cool is that? I think like Asians are the coolest people in the world. Like, you guys are amazing. Like, and no, I don't I don't look at Asians and see martial arts, but the people that do, then I think to me that they just see the strength and the Asian community has built, but it doesn't mean that every Asian identifies as that or surrounds themselves with that. So, you know what? Middle finger to those people, they need to get a hold of themselves, and you know, um I would say that you um being born Asian is like the most amazing, incredible thing. Like God made you perfectly just the way you are, and you you're you're amazing. So I'm gonna stop talking about that because we're not even gonna give energy to those people, but I do want to let you know that I completely understand where you come from because also being African-American myself and black and all these things, you know, and black girl with curly hair, and it comes with all types of stereotypes and preconceived notions that you can't be this and that, or you know, and so you know, it sounds like to me that at a young age you were holding two different realities at once. The life you were living and the mystery of where you came from, and then the also, well, technically, three different realities, and then the the people's perception of who you were when they saw you without you even introducing yourself. And I just want to lean into like how you showed up to the outside world and especially through your relationships and your sense of belonging and understanding like who you were. You were born, like you said, a water baby. You've been around water all your life, but you come in as a teenager deciding, saying, like, I'm gonna learn martial arts because you wanted to lean into that. But I also want to say, like, you don't owe anyone anything. You never, you don't have to do that. You are perfectly great just the way you are. And if you loved marshmallows and built marshmallow ports, then that's who you are, you know. Yeah. But I want to just also say for the listeners that's listening in today, like, I know that we'll get more on that, and maybe you can talk to that person right now. How did you get over trying to prove yourself to people the way that they may have identified you versus to just leaning into who you truly were and you are?

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Yeah, good question. I think I realized as an adult, and this happened in my early 30s. I realized that I had to do exactly what you just said. They're not don't even associate wasting energy and time on certain people that behave this way in society. I'll give you an example. The crucial factor was this case where I went to the doctors. Not many people that know me know this story. I was at the doctor's in Australia and I was waiting in the waiting room. It was a specialist doctor, it wasn't a GP, it was uh it was a specialist. And I was the only one in the waiting room. And I'm sitting there and he walked out with his with his manila folder, his folder, and walked past me and went, Mr. Williams, Mr. Williams, and he looked left and looked right. Looked past me, Mr. Williams, and by the time I'd realised and got up and went, he'd turned around and gone. Then I called out, uh uh I'm Barton Williams. Yes, Barton Williams and he turned around and he he went he realised he'd made a a uh a a misjudgment and he actually in and full credit to him, he said to me, Oh I'm so sorry, I wasn't expecting you to be Mr. Williams. And I was like, Oh, okay. And I thought for a minute, I this can go both ways, you know, and I I realised, I realised, I thought, no, that was a you know, it at the time it shocked me and I I let it ride and and went through it. But that was a turning point in my life as a as a young adult that made me realise, y you know what? Some things just have to go the way they are and let them unfold their white their in their own unique way. And if anything, it empowered me so well that I started writing. And that's ultimately what um got me through a lot of these. I you know, I I don't put it down as trauma, but I I come back to that analogy I said about the bruise. It's like I've been bumped again. It was a bump of reality to get reality to say, hey, you you are you are Barton, but to some people you're gonna be viewed differently. And that gave me the strength to start my writing. And you know, I was already a teacher and I'd already, you know, I've already already committed to the way that I want to pass on knowledge and impart my knowledge onto children. And I sort of realized after these things uh occurring in my life that I need to write these down, and that's what happened. So I took a a fairly negative experience with a doctor and turned around, spoke to a few close friends, and we giggled about it, but it it made me realize the importance of how, and you just said it earlier, Carrie, that we shouldn't even give be giving time to these people and just move on and and and and use that energy in a positive way. And I think that's my whole strength, and that's my whole mantra, is that you know, I like to say to myself that I am powerful, I am effective, you know, I've got it written down here, I am effective, I can influence and I can help change people in a positive way. And I think that's come from the experience uh experiences I've had, and I think that's complemented beautifully now physically because I'm taking on physical challenges as a young kid, right through to an adult swimming in Lake Michigan. I've always chosen hard sports. I was heavily involved in barefoot water skiing, which is water skiing with no skis, and you are crazy. So yeah, so and I think I think I've I think I've taken you know the challenges physically and emotionally and combined them and use them in a positive way. So that that's what I'm about.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

That's so impressive. Wow, when belonging feels unstable on the inside, you know, a lot of people I feel like turn to something solid to hold on to. But for you, it seems like not only did you take to writing, but your body became that anchor for you. And now you talk about water skiing with bare feet. Oh my goodness. Like, I love to talk about that physical challenge of becoming of how how that became a part of your language of survival, part of your way to fully love yourself, a way of you you saying, like, I'm gonna fully be Bart, and this is what Bart is. So, like, can we go to that? I wanna talk about like I know you mentioned um a lot of things about like your body, body being kind of like a teacher for you, like a bridge.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

And you you've done a lot. You were a junior surf lifesaver, right? At eight. And then I swimming in Lake Michigan, and then skiing bare feet. What drew you to these extreme physical environments? Like, what was that like big transition as that this is what I want to do?

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Yeah, I think I think one of the things that I've learned over time is to follow your gut instincts. And I was very lucky that I was given the ex you know the exposure to water skiing from a young age. You know, sure I was swimming in the ocean at eight years of age, getting you know dumped by waves as a junior lifesaver. And I I remember crying and being scared, and mum would just say, You're going to be alright, we're here to support you, rah-rah, rah. You know, mum was amazing, mum was my rock. But at the same time, I was learning to water ski as well. And dad, that was dad's side. He was he was tough love, you know. He's uh he's he's a baby boomer, so it was tough love with dad. And he would say, Come on, get on the rope, hang on to the ski rope, and away I'd go and try to ski. And I remember just getting smashed and smashed. And the key, I guess, to any physical challenge is the support network you've got with you. And it's that that immersion rule. I always say, if you hang around five people that do something great, you'll become the sixth great person, you know, particularly when it comes to physical activity as well, is that we we do need support. And I was lucky I had my my family and friends, and I got into water skiing, and then I obviously saw someone barefoot water ski, and then I said, Dad, I want to do that. And he said, Well, you know, you gotta we're gonna have to have to learn the right way. That's how it was it was bred. I was born uh I guess with that urge to all right, I want to do that, and then I met the right people and I learned, but it was it was hard, it was I took a lot of injuries and hard fools, and I stuck at it, and then as a young adult, I got into it heavily and bec it it became a competitive sport, and I was lucky enough eventually in 2001 to make the Australian uh open squad uh uh in barefoot water skiing, and we went to Florida and you know uh I've been I've been very lucky to um to to be involved at the competition level of a sport that is generally considered pretty tough. Barefoot water skiing is you used to be considered a daredevil act. Uh someone yeah and now it's natural sport.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I mean I I love water, but I don't know. Uh yeah, no. You can have that all day, every day.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Thank you. It's a good rush, and I and I think that's the the other thing. I have a very simple saying that uh, you know, nothing easy is great and nothing great is easy, and I've sort of installed that in my brain, and I've been questioned on that a few times, but uh it's a general rule for me. Uh anything that's worth putting effort into i it returns great things.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

I love that. Wow. What happens in your mind when you enter this freezing water? Like, what do you say to yourself?

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Yeah, and I guess that's where the next stage of my life and physical challenges. I mean, I still water ski, but I don't I don't compete competitively in barefoot water skiing. But later in life I got into cold water swimming, particularly during lockdown in 2020. I was living in London, and I was very fortunate again at I talk about the support network, and it's so important that everyone has a great support network. And in lockdown, I was exposed to cold water swit swimming in in England, in the River Thames and various rivers and lakes around England. And again, the crew I was swim swimming with were saying, Barton, you're being a bit weak. I I'd complain that I was cold and not carrying enough fat, and they'd say, No, just toughen up and you learn how to breathe properly and you'll be fine. And then what, three years later, you know, uh I managed to get down to colder and colder water. And then what are we now? It's now 2026. In the last two years, I've really taken it up here in in Michigan, Lake Michigan in Chicago, and the challenge is it's all about breathing. You know, you've probably heard of Wim Hof, know the ice plungers and ice bars and ice showers. Cold water lake swimming is a next level again, is because you are actually swimming, you've got to get your breath controlled, you have to think about how long you've been exposed to the cold water, let alone the cold air, which is colder than the water when you get out. And that's something I really learned here in Chicago is that your cold water exposure, if you're not careful, you get hypother hypothermia and you and you die. So it's a lot of science, which I love science, and I've spoken to the right people, and so far I haven't had too many injuries, and it's a great rush. I mean, it's a beautiful feeling when you get cold, but then you get warm again, and it gives the body a wonderful, wonderful, energizing feeling.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Yeah, wow. How did you discover the connection between training your body and training your mind and doing these levels of sports?

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah, I think the the key there is breathing, and the more I've spoken, and I've been very lucky to live in England for five years, obviously Australia my whole life, and then now four years in Chicago, I've met some great athletes along the way and great coaches. And the connection between mind and body is absolutely proportional when you talk about breathing. You have to slow yourself down, you have to count, you have to calm yourself. And the challenge with ice swimming and cold water exposure is that you don't want your heart rate to go too low. Because what naturally happens physiologically is when hypothermia hypothermia kicks in, is your heart rate does slow down and you don't want it to slow down too much. So it's a real a real balance and it's a real mind game that hey, I've got to calm myself down and breathe properly with a set breathing pattern to get my heart rate to go down enough, but not too much once I get in the cold water. So it's it's a fine balance, and I think that's what I love about the challenge. It's not just a physical challenge, it's the fact that I had to have to really think. I have to think about my breathing. I have to be looking at my watch, and I've got these fancy goggles called form goggles that read the time in my goggles. I can see my heart rate in my goggles, I can see how long I'm being exposed to the cold water. So I've got the right technology as well. So it's about having the right equipment, but that allows me obviously to make sure that I'm connected mentally and physiologically, I can see that my heart rate is not going too low or too high.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Wow. So we could take a lot from that. Even in everyday life, it's about like you're breathing and slowing your heart rate down. And even when you're getting into cold water or handling discomfort, like you're training your mind with your breaths and on how to handle life.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Yeah, I mean, you only have to look at the yogis. The yogis have been doing it for years, haven't they? So, you know, uh breathing is vital. But if you if you don't have the right mindset, you can't control that breathing. And I think that's absolutely crucial.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yeah, I love that. Wow. As you're describing this, is making me think about like how vital breathing is and how vital making that decision and the important distinction between like your fast breaths and your slow down breaths on how long you can last. And that brings me into the point about resilience, you know. I think like resilience for a lot of us can um can feel really daunting when you're in a really dark situation, you don't know how long you're gonna be there. And you're asking yourself, you know, am I gonna be suffering for a while or am I gonna be living in this unknown for a while or this dual reality for a while? When do I, you know, kind of I finally choose like going forward as the only option? I wanna talk about like what did resilience look like to you in your journey, you know, from adoption to this new life to defining your own identity for yourself to choosing to say, I'm not a martial artist, I'm a water boy, and I'm gonna succeed at that and I'm gonna lean more into me. What is that, what does that look like in your journey? I feel like you've done you've had a very resilient journey.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yeah, I mean, resilience to me, first of all, is is a life, it's a lifelong skill to me. And that's no scientific background there at all. For me personally, it's a lifelong skill which enables me to navigate through testing times. And we're talking testing times, you know, I think the most common, the most common resilience or problems that people have or testing times are loss of loved ones, loss of job, relocation, those kinds of things, illness, health, they are the major ones in in modern day life, and I'm generalizing, but that are going to test us. And I think what's happened is for me, because I've had them a lot of unanswered questions, resilience to me has been ongoing. It's it hasn't been an isolated case. And and the way I see it is that you are constantly having to come up with practical things to help you go on to the next day. And I think that's what's been my way of life, as far as when I say I'm resilient. It's I certainly I accept the fact that I can say, Oh yeah, I I I am a resilient person, but I I like to think more so that I'm a practical person that's just navigating through testing times, you know. Uh when we lose loved ones, that's been really tough. It's and it it hurts all the time. And and that's a reality that I've accepted and that we all have to accept, unfortunately. But it's people handle it differently, don't they? So for me, I've gone on from day one from the challenges of not knowing who my biological mother is. I've never met her. I don't know who my biological dad is, and I guess that's an acceptance that's fested over time, and it's just a curiosity. It's when it's not curiosity and it's a tough time, I I find that hard. Like like a loss of uh my mother. You know, that's that's uh that's not curiosity, that actually happened. I lost my mother, I lost my you know I've lost good friends, you know. So that's different. I guess what I'm saying here is that for me, the key to my resilience, so to speak, and I and I don't like losing that word loosely, the key to me navigating through tough times has come into several things. Number one is my networks, whether they're friends or family, my peers, like as uh work peers or even teachers, I still am in contact with a couple of my teachers from high school. Um enjoyment and fulfillment for me. I'm lucky enough to have plenty of physical challenges and events in my life that I really enjoy. I love going to theatre, I love going to film, I love exercising, so I get enjoyment and fulfillment. And the other ones which is massive for me, again, I have no scientific data behind this, is reflection. I've been massive on reflection in my life, and that comes through my writing, and I'm absolutely convinced that has helped me to become more resilient. It's helped me write about things that tough times have happened, it's helped me write about sadness, you know. At the example when I said about the doctor, you know, misjudging me and looking for Mr. Williams, I wrote that into a play. So, you know, writing has been a great source of me dealing with tough times, and I call that, you know, reflection time, reflection time. You know, for me, reflection time is writing. For some people it's talking. For me, I find it easier to to write about things and reflect than I do talking to people, which sounds sounds a bit weird.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

No, I love that. It's like it's amazing. You've done so much deep internal work and sitting with that discomfort, questioning our identity, redefining strength, and then writing about it and not deciding to just sit there and at some point all of that turned outward, not only into stories. Like you said, you made a whole play, which is fascinating about the experience that happened at the doctor's office, which many people need to watch and to understand and to then come back and question their own realities of how they are how they are showing up in the world. What are they saying to others, you know? And I think also you you turn that into a service, a service that you're giving to others, you know. Um I love how you turn this pain into purpose. And I want to give into your book because you're talking about writing, right? And what inspired you to write, but what are you?

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Yeah, so but what are you came from the the the actual day? I remember the day I actually started writing it because in 1997 I was a teacher in New Zealand, and the boy, I still remember the boy's name. And in New Zealand, where I was teaching in South Auckland, there was a big Polynesian boy. He's physically as big as me. I'm I'm I'm not a big guy, you know, but this boy was big. He was he was grade five, and he came up to me and he went and he's had a strong Samoan accent, and I still remember him as a beautiful kid, and he said to me, Hey, uh, hey, Mr. Williams, because they speak so softly with their Polynesian accents, it's a beautiful accent. And he goes, Hey Mr. Williams, but what are you? Are you Aussie or are you Vietnamese? And then he walked off. And I was to this day, I was like, Wow, this kid's grade five, and he's hit me with a question on the first day in 1997 at Papa Toy Toy East Primary School, and he said to me, But what are you? And I couldn't answer him for the first ten seconds. And he walked off and uh after he came back after the lesson, uh another lesson, I said, Tua, I'm an Australian Vietnamese. And you know, and that that sort of reali made me realize that question, but what are you? Was there and you know, I I think it's beautiful that uh it took a grade five primary school student, elementary student, to ask such a profound question. And that allowed me to talk more about it, and I remember talking to the staff about it, and maybe the children there in New Zealand, because it you know there's such a strong Polynesian culture, maybe they are a bit more culturally aware and interested in people's backgrounds. So I started writing a book, and then over time I felt it wasn't good enough, and I handed it to a few people that that I respected in writing, and then finally in 2019 it got published in London and as a children's book, and that gave me the confidence to go, wow, you know, this this story is worthy of being being told, and it's basically the story of a young boy that gets gets you know it gets told all the time, but what are you? Because he grew up in Australia, he was sent to Australia in a cardboard box. So it's basically about a boy that uh was adopted from Vietnam and sent to Australia on a cardboard box. It's obviously autobiographical and deals with people saying, But what are you? But at the end of the day, the premise of the book shows that it doesn't matter where you're from, it's what's in your heart, and it's and it's what you love and what people more importantly, people love you. And that's the that's the whole message is that your love and network is more important than people going around saying, But what are you? and you can you can't answer it. So that was in 2019 as a children's children's book. And I was I loved going around to schools in England and sharing that story with people because England is such a melting pot of cultures, as we know. And then in 2024, I'd written a an adult play version of of the book. I modified it to a a play and it was performed. Yeah, it was performed at the Edinburgh Fringe in Scotland in 2025, my apologies. 202 Yep, so the play, the adult play was then mounted in Scotland in 2024 at the Edinburgh Fringe for a month. And then in 2025, a slightly different version, an Australian version of the play was written, and that was performed in 2025 last year, and that was called Fragile Handle with Care. And the first one was called in Scotland was called Precious Cargo, and then hopefully in 2026 we might we might be getting an American version of the same story.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

And that's gonna be that's going to be called But What Are You, and that will be based off the original book done in 2019. So fingers crossed that we've got some people interested in uh mounting that production this year in America, and that would complete the trifecta, going from Scotland to Australia and finishing in America this year. So who knows?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Wow, uh who knows? I think it's gonna happen, okay? Yeah, why that's impressive. Why what I find like most for sure, what I find most powerful is that you're modeling a version of strength that includes tenderness and curiosity and emotional honesty, and you're giving it to those that need it most. And it's our children, they're the most vulnerable. I, you know, it's like what you're doing is so radical in a lot of places, especially for men to like have this level of vulnerability and courage to share their truth and um all spark from when you were teaching in New Zealand and a five-year-old Samoan kid comes up to you and says, What are you? And I think that is so beautiful. And um, wow, like uh where did you because when we lean into this and we talk about masculinity and vulnerability and courage, especially these days, like this is stuff that is like on the culprit that people are discussing, where where did you learn that strength? Like that strength should look like this, or that vulnerability looks like this, and you telling your story.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

I think I've learned that over the years, being a teacher, predominantly a female dominated profession in Australia. Not so sure over here in America or in the UK, but definitely in Australia, when I was going through university in the 90s, it was predominantly females. So as a male, I was always a minority as far as speaking up, and I I definitely had a connection with children, particularly boys that are either very, very hard to control or very distracted, and I sympathized for them. So I think that's what's actually I've connected with because I feel like them. It's that I I I totally get it. I feel and I think I mentioned earlier that that whole square peg round hole feeling that I've never really fitted in. So I feel like if I can impart that on just one student, just one student in a classroom of 30, then I'm doing my job. And I think that's always sat in the back of my head, right through university as a training teacher. Even when I write, if I can just make one audience member resonate with that, then I've done my job. And that's That's the key, is about it resonating with it. And I I and I think that's also been a a problem of mine is that I felt that uh writing a story or a book about your own life is very narcissistic, and I wasn't keen for that. And uh it's only in the last ten years I've realized why didn't I do this earlier? Because I'd had it all written down. And then people said to me people said to me, No, no, no, no, no, this story's bigger than you. It's not you've got to share your personal side of it to actually get people to understand how big this topic is, and that we do need to be talking about it, and we do need, particularly boys, to be talking about their c insecurities.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

You know, their feeling of being around peg in a square hole, and I love what you said earlier, Carrie, is that it doesn't matter what ethnicity or race you are, we all have to acknowledge this stuff. We all have to speak up and make sure things are being done right, which is ironic in light of everything that's happening that you know in America. So, you know, and that's why I it's so important, and that's why I will continue to keep doing what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

I love that. I love that so much, and I'm so proud of your courage to speak up. And it's so interesting. You said, you know, like you were feeling like it would be narcissistic sharing your own story, but your own story is also so unique, and there's so many people that were in the same position as you, and then like who did you look to, and where did you find a book that looked like that? And when those books don't exist or there are very few far in between, that's your sign, your key sign that someone needs to hear this, so then you can help them push through it sooner or faster. And so often I feel like people are so afraid to share their story because of the feeling of being judged by their story or the feeling of feeling like it's all about me. No, if you take the viewpoint of off of you and say, who is my audience that I want to help get this to, motivate, tell them to keep going, tell them that their identity matters. That's where the truth lies. That's where the beauty lies, that's where your story lies. It doesn't live within us, it's not about us, it's about others. And I think like you were not selfish, you were selfless in deciding to put this book out there. So thank you for doing that.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

No, thank you. Yeah, no, you're you're spot on. And and I think that comes with mature with maturity too. So maybe I was like a bit of maturity to realize that.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

It does so much time. We could be honest, like, you know, no, like, yeah, you go through different seasons of life, and you're right, you do see things a different way. And then once you like, I just crossed over 30, I'm like, ah, my birthday's tomorrow, actually.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

But happy birthday for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Thank you. And I'm just like, it it's so interesting because I'm like, wow, I am a different person than when I was 21. I'm like, okay, but no, you're right. It does come with maturity. But I mean, someone's out here listening to us right now, and they're they're being inspired by this conversation and by your journey. And I would like to ask you something because sometimes it just does feel overwhelming, you know, where to begin. And I want to ground people with something practical where they can take away. And I think you've left us already with a lot of that. But when a person's feeling really disconnected with their body, you know, and not fully knowing their identity or, you know, redefining their identity for themselves, what's one small place that you feel like that they can start?

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Really good question. I I personally would be starting with reflection. And for me, that would involve pen and paper. I I'm old school because I'm I'm of that generation. I'm sure some people would maybe use their iPhone or a voice recorder or they'd type. But for me, personal reflection, it would just start with personal reflection. And it I mean, it could be as simple as happy place, find a happy place and be in that happy place. But to do that, you need to better write down where your happy place is, or you just go to it. So for me, you know, I I hear everyone use this loosely so much lately, is that whole the whole write a gratitude diary. Yeah, I get it, I understand that. But if you just write that routinely, I think it loses I don't know. I I just feel for me, especially, I'm grateful for this. It becomes uh not monotonous, it becomes um lacking true depth for me. So I just think uh just write, just write or be in a happy place. And for some people it's yoga. I think yoga is amazing. I love yoga, um, not only for the physiological benefits from a lot of training, but I think it's just so good for breathing and so good for your head to do nothing, just to be out of the zone. So um so I I find to where to start where do where where to start? I would say in a happy place. A happy place, and that would be first of all, discover where is your happy place because not everyone knows where their happy place is. And if you don't know and you haven't got a support network, then you have to find someone to help you find that happy place. Because not everyone has a support network, you know, not everyone has a partner or not everyone has a a friend, but they may ha know someone that has a dog, they may know someone that has a cat, they may know someone that has, you know, that will listen to them. So and they might help them to find where their happy place is.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Yeah, I love that so much. I want to close this um this podcast session with bringing this back to you. Not the roles you play or the practices you've done and the advice you've given, but I think that this is all amazing. But the person you are now, and I wanted to know, Bart, like if you could speak to the baby you you once were, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Wow, that's that's a really good question, Carrie. And I'm getting really without getting too emotional, I'm getting really strong images. Um, and I'll send you a copy of the documentary. I did a documentary where they they filmed me next to a young child, and and it's the only other time I've had that same feeling. What would I say? I would say trust your gut instincts and never ever stop loving. And that can be anything. That could be love for a person, love for an activity, love for a belief, love for food, whatever you choose to love. I would say trust your gun instant instincts and love. I would I I think that's what I would say to to baby gulling. I would say just trust your trust your gut instincts and love. Never stop loving. That's what I would say.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

So beautiful. Wow. I love this episode so much. It's just amazing. Thank you. I want to say thank you all so much for listening to the Resilience Fowl Podcast today. And thank you so much for our amazing ripple, beautiful guest, Bart, that has shared his uh beautiful story with us. If this story resonates with you, or if you know someone that could just use uh a virtual hug and to let them know that they are seen, their story is felt, and to just be inspired, please send them this episode. Um, we would love for you to keep up with Bart in all of his incredible work. So as he tours around with his plays and he competes in water sports and does incredible things. Bart, how can we stay in contact with you?

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Yeah, sure. They can check me out on Instagram, which is Barton C.Williams, or they can visit my website, which is BartonCWilliams.com.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Perfect. And we're gonna include those in the show notes below. So if you are listening to us wherever you get podcasts, look at those notes, follow Bart, check it out, and um be kind to yourself today. Know that you are truly loved and that you matter. And stay tuned for the next episode of the Resilience Fouls Unlocked. This is your girl, Carrie.