Deep Dive with Dr D
Discussions on life and living with Dr D. A man who has risen from the lowest depths of life to the amazing life he has now.
Deep Dive with Dr D
What If Generosity Is A Business Model (w/guest Henry Douvier-Johnson)
Grief puts you in the middle of a town’s true story. That’s where Henry lives every day—caring for families at their worst moments, then turning that closeness into steady, practical generosity the whole community can feel. We sit down to trace his path from a small Idaho upbringing to owning two local funeral homes in Ellensburg, why he rejects corporate death-care shortcuts, and how “it’s only money, you can always make more” became a blueprint for giving back.
We get real about recovery. Henry watched a brutal wave of overdoses and made a choice: fund the work that keeps people alive. He explains why peer-led, low-barrier support matters—budgeting help, routine, connection—and how preventing avoidable deaths is the most meaningful metric. He’s honest about his own boundaries with alcohol after traumatic cases, and he offers a direct message of hope to anyone feeling isolated or done: it gets better, and there are people ready to help.
Then we shift from loss to local action. Rumors swirled when KXLE changed hands; one tough letter and a face-to-face meeting turned into a partnership to rebuild the station, restore the Lookout Mountain signal, and keep radio truly local. Along the way, Henry makes a case for showing up: read the agendas, attend the commissions, talk to owners, and skip the keyboard outrage. Family, too, anchors the conversation—marriage, raising two boys, and finding small joys like golf, boating, and writing to clear the mind.
If you care about community building, mental health, recovery resources, small-town media, and what real service looks like behind the scenes of funeral care, you’ll find both candor and comfort here. Be seen, not viewed. Join us, share this with a friend who needs some hope, and if the conversation resonates, subscribe and leave a review so more people can find it.
Welcome. Hey. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Glad you're here. This is good. I'm glad you think I'm fascinating enough to I think you have a good story. Yeah. I think the questions that uh that we have will will uh help people learn a little more about you. And I'm curious on some things, some of your why. So we'll we'll get into that. So let me do my quick uh opener. Welcome to Deep Dive with Dr. D. I'm glad you're here. Man, it's crazy to think we're getting toward the end of 2025. I think I have three more episodes before the end of the year, and uh this will be a good one. So my shameless plug for my book, which I have oh god, over here, stay there. I just rearranged my office and cleaned it up, so that threw me off doing that. Have I given you a copy of this? Uh not yet. Oh, good. I've been meaning to get over to Gerald's. That's okay. You're getting one today. So Grit Over Shame, it's available wherever you buy books locally in Ellensburg at Gerald's and Pearl Street books. If you want to shop local online, you can go to Gerald's.com. And then, of course, Amazon as an ebook, as the paperback, and you can get uh the um narrated version on Audible. So the short story of the wild ride of my life, you can get that. That one will be yours. Don't let me forget to sign it for you. Did you narrate it yourself? I did. Okay. And that was on a suggestion from from people. I'm like, okay, yeah. So it was cool, it was good. Uh so I have Henry here, and you and I have known each other since how long have you been in Ellensburg?
SPEAKER_01:So I've been in Ellensburg for just over eight years. Um, I moved there in November of 2017 when I took over management of what was Stewart and Williams. Yes. Um, and then uh bottom the summer of 2020.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And I think we've known each other for pretty much that time. I think it was 2019 that we conducted.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And um, yeah, you're well known in the community. I'm sure we'll have some people on the live here watching. Yep, we got three viewers back there. Um, and uh so this is your opportunity, and this isn't a question, but uh, you know, my podcast is growing. Um, tell the world that maybe doesn't know about you, uh, give them the kind of reader's digest version of who Henry is. Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so I was uh born and raised in a small uh town in North Idaho, uh named say uh called St. Mary's, Idaho. Okay. Which, if you don't know where that's at, I don't fault you one bit. You don't in relation to San Point. So about uh south of San Point.
SPEAKER_00:I actually lived in San Point too. So that's San Point is part of my bike. I think I've been through St. Mary's. Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:St. Mary's is kind of down off the corner of Lake Court d'Alene, um along the St. Joe River. Yeah. So I always tell people like you don't intentionally drive through St. Mary's. Um if you accidentally drive through St. Mary's, it means that you made a wrong turn at Plummer or Rose Lake. Nice. Okay. And nice little quiet logging town. Uh I grew up there. Uh my folks divorced when I was 13. Okay. And my mom and I moved to San Point. So uh attended San Point High School, class of 2003, go Bulldogs. Okay. Um, and uh funnily enough, Bulldogs, San Point Bulldogs, Ellsburg Bulldogs, you know, I feel like I'm right at home. That's funny. Um, attended school at the University of Idaho for about three semesters, realized that I liked making money more than I like going to school. Okay. Um, but you gotta remember I was in that era where the answer to everything that high school career counselors gave was college. You gotta graduate high school, you gotta go to college, and then you can start your life. College, college, college, college. Not everybody's built for college, not everybody's built for university. I am not. Okay. Um, so after I left uh University of Idaho, I oh god, what all have I done? I managed a trophy and award store. Okay um I did what I call my first apprenticeship and funeral service at Shorts Chapel, uh left doing that. I sold cars, and then I was the car wash boy at that dealership because I can't sell a car to save my life. Um then I managed a movie gallery, video rental store. You know, remember those. Some of us some of us remember those. Then I managed a Radio Shack, then I got back into the car business.
SPEAKER_00:Nice.
SPEAKER_01:Um and then I got back into the funeral business in 2013. So I'm on I'm on approaching the end of my 13th year full-time in the funeral business. I say I've been doing it for approximately 20 years because that's when I really started um and never took my finger off the pulse of what was going on within the funeral space. But um and then yeah, moved to Ellensburg in 2017. And I actually had no intention of staying here. This was uh a career stepping stone because I needed to get out of where I was at. Okay. I was gonna do this for a couple years and then move on to a different firm. And something about this area just grew on me. And the opportunity presented itself for me to buy the the funeral homes because I have the one here and the one in Cleellum. Um yeah, I just it's like, yeah, this is a good thing.
SPEAKER_00:So when you first moved here, it was to manage. Was to manage, correct? It wasn't to buy, no, was that even on the radar?
SPEAKER_01:It was it was part of the discussion as a dry this for a couple years and okay, you know, and I I never saw myself as before I moved here, all I knew about Ellensburg was it had a gas station and it was windy. Okay. I didn't even know the windy part. That was about that was about it. That's funny. Um, but as I as I got settled into town, as I started to get to know people, um, some of the people that I cared for early in my time in Ellensburg um kind of adopted me. So like when Mike Bruner died, um that whole I'm an honorary Bruner, they totally adopted me, and that opened up friendships with like Dr. Dr Dr. Solberg and his wife Joy and their family, and Dan and Janelle Canyon, and a lot of these old, you know, local families that just kind of kept me here. In fact, when I was thinking about leaving, my friend uh Ona Solberg, who I took care of a couple years ago when she passed away, she said, You ain't getting out of town that easy. Yeah, you're ours now, you're staying put. So that's how I that's how I landed here.
SPEAKER_00:And I love what I do. And we have a lot of those stories in Ellensburg. Yeah. My my story was 2001 moving here when Fred Meyer was built, was to just be closer to my son. And it was I actually kind of, you know, I it wasn't my plan, and I kind of tried to leave, but it just didn't happen. And uh I kind of attribute Ellensburg to the song Hotel California by the Eagles. You can come, but you can never leave. Yep. And you end up going, yeah, I'm kind of glad. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, and I see it all the time. People uh that have um they were born and raised here, and they've you know they went and done other stuff, but then they come back. Yeah, uh yes, yes. Somebody, Dave Conley, who who uh sells ads for us at KXLE, born and raised here, moved away, yep, and then came back.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because it's just home. Same, yeah. I've heard many of those stories. Yeah. Yeah. Andy Rossback, who's been on the show and he's a really good friend of mine, same thing. I think his was Portland, which is you're like, wow.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. And we have a lot of interesting stories of people in this valley, both uh native, if we call, been there, been here their whole lives, but also like you and me, transplants, who have come and and found their own roots here and made themselves uh part of the community in in a lot of different ways. So thank you for that introduction. And tell us about your family.
SPEAKER_01:So uh married. Uh my husband Marvin and I have been married for oh boy, he's gonna he's watching and he's gonna get this right 22. So three and a half years. Okay. Um we have two boys, uh um, one God who just turned 18. Yeah. Um, and then uh one that's gonna be 16. Uh they live in home over in Elma. And we see we see we see them with some regular frequency. Okay. Um and uh dog Veda, our Australian Shepherd, yeah, uh named if you can name the movie uh that she's named after. Veda. Movie My Girl. Oh my gosh! So that was an intentional name for her because she's she's my little girl, and we're in the funeral home. And yeah, anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, and just you know, yeah, just cool living life and just doing our thing and yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Cool. Yeah. And and Marvin is uh he's uh fire marshal. He's a deputy fire marshal for Kidotask. Yeah, cool. I walk through your parking lot.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, no, it's just no secrets. It's pretty normal, right? You're literally my neighbor, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So super cool. Where'd you two meet?
SPEAKER_01:Uh we met uh through mutual friends. Uh-huh. And uh you know here, here, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, was he so he was he living here? Obviously, must have been. Okay, yeah. Had been for a long time. Where's he from?
SPEAKER_01:He was uh from Efreda and then moved over here. He was a teenager and okay, and uh, you know, it was it was a different era uh when he was young, because he was a couple years younger than me, and it was a whole different era, and and he followed the the um normal path, you know, get married and and um and anyway, so we met and and we went on a couple dates and then just both fell hard for each other and you know it was a whirlwind uh romance because we met Memorial Day at 21. Okay, and we were married 11 months later. Uh part of that was me because it was like, okay, so here's a here's a gay guy in his 30s who actually wants to live in Ellensburg, actually has his crap together, and I'm like, no, I ain't letting you go.
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, you're getting that's interesting you say that because I t I listen to people just talking about the dating scene for heterosexual, that's a struggle, but I would imagine for gay or lesbian, it's even more so like if you find someone good. Oh, it's way worse, it's way worse.
SPEAKER_01:If you're outside of a certain age range. If you're a college student, I guess you're doing just fine. Yeah, yeah. Um you gotta remember once in the gay community, once you turn 30, you hit what's called gay death. And then there's a span where you're until you get to be like 45, then nobody's interested in you.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, that's the that's okay. That's the lore, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, sure. So super cool. All right, let's dive into a question here. This is good. You've built deep roots in this community through your work, your family, and your support, because this uh affected me personally with the nonprofit I started, but with your support, and I see you doing this of local nonprofits or entities that are doing good for the community. I'm curious what drives your passion for bringing people together?
SPEAKER_01:Well, let's break that, let's break that question down into a couple different uh things. So, number one, inherently you don't get any closer to a community and members of your community, I don't think, than through a funeral home. Um we engage with folks at one of the worst times of their lives. Um, and I've I've said, and people have heard me say this, this job was a hell of a lot easier when I first moved to town. Okay. I didn't know anybody. Oh wow. This was just this was just David coming in. Yeah, you all passed away, a community member, you know, and maybe you've met him and you kind of know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as oh boy, time has rolled on, then you know people. Yeah. Well, I just buried one of my best friends a couple weeks ago, the uh Coroner Henderson. Um, somebody I've known for eight years. We talked on the phone almost every day. Um, and so that kind of takes its its toll. But you don't get any closer, and you don't it's really easy as a funeral director to build roots in a community if you're honest with people, if you're genuine, um, and if you do it for something more than the money, okay. Which then ties into my next question or the next part of your question, which is support of nonprofits. Um I've over my career I've seen funeral homes. Um, well, growing up in my uh hometown, okay, every week in the paper, Ron Hodge, who was the town funeral director, was in the paper volunteering or doing something. Okay. Okay. Yep. He's a small town where they're doing maybe 80 funerals a year. He's got the time to volunteer. Okay. We're a bigger town, we're handling um, we're caring for more families. Don't always have the time. But caring for that number of families puts me in a spot where I have the resources to give back. Okay. I've seen funeral homes that say they're all about community and they don't give a nickel back for anything. Um, I've seen uh and I've seen some stuff in between. Okay. So my philosophy and part of this comes from not spending my entire career in the funeral world. I've done other things. Um, and so the funeral home should be seen as another local business, another part of the community, somebody who's always there whether you need us or not. Okay. So that's why we donate to a lot of different causes, a lot of different uh nonprofits. And the the connection then with why I was so supportive of KCRCO, and actually Judge Kirkham and I were talking about this at the Casa Dinner on Friday. So we remember your first KCRCO dinner where your two major table sponsors were a defense attorney and a funeral. I remember we talked about that. Um but the my support of the recovery community comes twofold. Number one, the summer of 21 was absolutely brutal for me. Um you were standing in the corner when I got up and gave a totally impromptu speech um at Overdose Awareness Day. Um we cared for way too many young people that summer. Yeah. Uh thankfully the fentanyl problem seems to have gotten under control in that we're not having as many overdoses as we as we were. Sure. Um, and then the second comes from a lot of my mentors in the funeral business, and I'm not gonna name names. It's okay. They're all in recovery. Some of them are proud to be in recovery, others in quiet about it. You know, um it's it's because when you're when you're serving a small town, you've gotta be tied to your business. You've gotta so what do you do? You sit and watch TV and you drink and you drink and you drink and you drink, and um and it's an emotional position. Yeah, like you you've got a lot. Oh yeah, yeah. And I've I've struggled with it. I I went through a time I went through a time in 2019. Um a lot of folks were and I'm not gonna call it out specifically, a lot of folks remember what happened in the spring of 2019. Um most of that year I was not in a good spot. Will you remind me what uh when Deputy Thompson was killed?
SPEAKER_00:Oh god, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I had to handle his funeral. Oh my god. Uh following that, I was not in a good spot. I was functional. Wow, I remember that. That I remember yes, yeah. I was functional during the day, I was quasi-functional in the evening, yeah, but I was not in a good spot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and it wasn't until that fall that I I had to catch myself and be like, okay, I've got to stop this. So I went six months without drinking at all. Um then COVID happened, and of course you got nothing else to do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and so I've had my own struggles. Um, do I still drink? Yes. Um, but I have to be cautious with myself or I have to be honest with myself of am I at a fundraiser and I'm just having a drink to socialize? Yeah. Do I need it? No. Or oh my god, did we have a wreck on the freeway? And am I chugging down Crown Royal now as a way to just take my mind off of what I've what I've seen? Yeah. Um, so so that's part of that's the other part of why I'm big on supporting the recovery community. And what you did with KCRCO, getting it off the ground, launching it, and passing it off to the next gesturation. You know, yeah, no, you've done a phenomenal thing for this community.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I I can say now, and I know we've had conversations, but it's because of you um early on. Uh, I remember the thousand dollar check you wrote me um when when I had no money and just a space, and and you know, the Kin Phile who owned the building said, You got six months. I was like, oh God, but you um Kirkham, our county prosecutor, who had said I could say this, but he came in and helped and and all the support from this community. And that's what I love about this community is that for you know, we've got issues in some ways, but for a more rural tends to be a little more conservative in some areas, it's always been supportive of the recovery community. Like our jail is doing stuff under the leadership of of uh Ed Bunton. Oh my god. But so thank you for your support early on. Um, and thank you for sharing um the personal parts of your own walk. And I'm I'm a person in recovery who doesn't drink at all, who is also okay saying, hey, yeah, that you drink and that you just kind of manage recognizing when you're drinking to drink and have fun or drink to unnecessarily good for you, yeah, right. And we need more of that. And I know you're a supporter of that, right? Everyone's path is different, it looks different for everyone. Yeah, yeah. Super cool. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So I guess the long the long and short of the the the short answer to that initial question is um community only works when when community comes together. Yeah, and that's that's the big things.
SPEAKER_00:I'm glad you said that because it made me think as you were talking that I I don't know if I've ever really recognized. I mean, I'm originally from Tacoma, I've been here for almost 25 years. Um you're the first funeral home guy that I've seen do the things you do at the level that you do. I can say it wasn't happening before you here. Oh, it certainly wasn't because it wasn't corporately owned. Yeah. Um is that that's a big thing in the funeral. Most of a lot of them are corporate owned by big conglomerates. Well, you've got you've got different levels.
SPEAKER_01:So you've got um Dignity Memorial, which is the largest quote unquote death care corporation in the world, okay. Also known as SCI. And that's where we were before I came as manager.
SPEAKER_02:Oh.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and then you've got other corporations, publicly traded corporations in the funeral space. You've got carriage, you've got foundation partners, you've got there's a lot of private equity in the funeral space. Oh, of course. Um, the problem with all of that is you make decisions based on what's best for the PL, not what's best for the community that you're serving. And you're able to do that because you're you. These are these two. I I have two. I have here in Cleon, that's it. Um, you know, and then you have more regional corporations or regional consolidators that can span a couple states, you know. Um, and when you get to that level, then you have a little bit more, you have a little more control, and it depends on who's at the top, you know. So when I look at um, you know, people always say, Oh, you and Brookside are competitors. We're we're not competitors. Jamin and I socialize, we're friends, um, we just run two different Well and I think they're competition is not a bad thing. No, no, and we just run two different style businesses. And um, you know, and but again, the biggest thing is is we're no different than we're no different than um any other business in town. Okay. Um and my my the long and short of it is for me to sit here and take money from people who are paying me to take care of their loved ones, 90% of the time people don't want to do business with me. Okay, I totally understand that. But for me to sit and take and take and take and take and not do two things. Number one, not reinvest in the business, okay? So you I could take you around and show you some funeral homes that are like walking into nineteen sixty. And it's been in the family since 1965. And they haven't put a nickel back into it. They've just well, they've put it back into themselves. They may have a Corvette. They may have a lake house. They may have a but they haven't put it back into the community they're serving, or back into the community to directly affect things that are helping their local community. Yeah. Okay. If our local community falls apart, I've got nobody to take care of.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm going to go to the next question, but I I just I I like to I I do this thing with why, but why? Where does that come from for you? That that because it's it's not it's not fake. It's not you're trying to do it just to you know have a shiny face and everyone knows you as Henry the giving guy. I I'm I I'm a look, I'm an observer of people. There's something in you. Where did that come from? I grew up poor. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um my dad was in a um farm accident when I was four years old, and so he was on disability. My mom worked full-time. We had a nice life, but we weren't anywhere close to what my cousins had. Um, but we we survived, okay? Um, and it goes back to uh a phrase that my one of the first mentors in the funeral business that I ever had was a guy by the name of Dave Hutton. Um actually one that I could say who was very proud to be at recovery. Uh um and I have something in the hopper for next year that I actually wanted to do this year, but all the heels kind of overtook my time. Um Dave always used to say, it's only money, you can always make more. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So we live a very we live live a very simple life. Okay. Uh we live above the funeral home. Okay. Find me a nice 2,500 square foot apartment in downtown.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That, you know, we can walk everywhere, we're there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, you know, I I pay myself a salary. It's not outrageous. Um, we live a very decent, comfortable life. And to a certain extent, okay, what what do I get if I have a whole pile of money in the bank? Okay, yeah, I have some security, I have some retirement, I have some, but what good does that do now? What good does that do for our community now? If I have the ability to make a donation to any of the many causes that we do, and it's not going to bankrupt my business and it's not going to bankrupt me personally, why not? Because again, it goes back to it's only money, you can always make more.
SPEAKER_00:I like it. So it goes back for you back. You grew up with not much. If I heard you correctly, like you probably had enough, but you didn't have much. And I heard you say something that I keep you didn't have what your cousins had. Yeah. Right. So, and I see this with you too. I remember I remember actually you you made a post or talked about about the boat and the driveway, right? Something about that. Like, I'm I'm a business guy, like we own the preschool, I've done other things, and and I'm kind of like, yeah, if I can make some money, great, but I also like to give back to the community. But I also argue, what's wrong with you making a good living? If you're working hard and doing the things, you should be able to make a good living. And I think people have a negative view on that, maybe in certain industries. I remember okay, so I remember what that was.
SPEAKER_01:So that was after I got that boat, which by the way is a 1993 mix. Right. Nothing spectacular. But who cares? I'm not gonna point fingers at places in town that nicer boats than I do. Sure, sure. Um, that I get to use okay, like four times a year. Right. Because I'm busy working. Yes. Yes. Um, no, it was I was up at the gas station, I was getting ready to take it out for the first time. Yeah, and somebody made some smart ass comments. Oh, Jesus, Johnston, looks like you got plenty of COVID money, because that was in the summer of 2020. Um and you know, um, and and every you know, and when I first bought the funeral home, I was a little more meek about that. And I was I just kind of, you know, my answer to that is somebody wants to offer me to buy the funeral home and you want to do what I do, yeah, go for it. Have that you want the long nights, the late weekends, the 18-hour days, call. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have it. Yeah. Because I would love nothing more than to just have a regular nine to five job.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think you would, though. I I don't that's a different statement. I think that you're in the role you're supposed to be in for your life. Uh, you and I have actually had some similar jobs. I detailed cars, uh, I worked for Radio Shack. Um, you've had different trajectories, and this this wasn't your kind of some kids do grow up to I want to be, you know, if this wasn't your thing. You God, universe, whatever. I think you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna keep doing it. Uh that's that's uh um I have no intention of of selling the funeral home or leaving the funeral space. Um, I might not be the one that's there all the time as things move forward with some of my other ventures, but it'll still be mine. Yeah, still keep my thumb on it, you know. So because there's been some grumblings about that too, is that I've got something new and shining over.
SPEAKER_00:This makes me think of um what is it, Mel Robbins, the let him let him talk or whatever book she has. Let him let him we're gonna go on to question number two. Okay. Actually, let me look because we're probably not gonna get to all of these. So I'm gonna pick pick and choose here. Well, I think we answered like the first yeah, we probably answered the first three, yeah, all in one. No, I want to ask you this the third, I'm gonna go to the third question because for me, a person in recovery, and that's obviously really important to me. Not all people do. So I I I want to ask this one you've supported the recovery community from the beginning, meaning, you know, you the time I met you. What about that mission resonated with you, you know, the KCRCO and what I was trying to do? And why has it mattered so much for you to show up for that work?
SPEAKER_01:Um well, number one, like I said, I have had mentors who have struggled with alcoholism. I've seen the effects of that, I've seen them get into recovery, I've seen them live in recovery. Um, number two, like I said, summer of 2021, I get really tired of burying kids.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and number three, it's I just get tired of caring for people whose deaths could be avoidable if the right resources exist for them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and up until you founded that, there were resources there, but they were not as upfront, you know. So yeah, we've got opportunities in town to get somebody into treatment or monitor. But there's parts of this that people don't think about, which is if you've been living your life in a tornado of of addiction for years, you don't know simple stuff like how do I budget? How do I, you know? Um, and a lot of it is also just that connection, you know. Um bingo night, you know, there's a way to get together. There's a way to and I think COVID, I think COVID to a certain extent, life just feels it has felt different. Um, where we're more where we still feel more isolated, um, where we're not doing the events like we used to. And so to see those bring people together type stuff that that Piers Rising is doing now, that's that's incredibly important. But it really boils down to um it really boils down to I don't want to have to take care of people whose whose death could could have theoretically been unavoidable if if the resources existed for them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're you're saying what you've heard me talk about. I mean, we we're doing good in a lot of ways, um, and it's why I started the KCRCO is helping people find their path to recovery, however that looks for them. And one of the things with k peers rising KCRCO is they still have it on their new at their new place, which is bigger and more room, is you walk in and you don't have to fill out a pile of paperwork, you don't have to, you know, check your card at the door. I'm not saying any, but you know, it's like what can we do to support you? Yep. And that's what I hear you talking about. Um, because you do, you see it's kind of like law enforcement, you know, and and the jail, all they see is the negative. Yep. You see the worst of the worst of the negative, you see the deaths. And hearing you say, you know, some of these maybe could have been prevented is a is a powerful statement because that's true. Yeah. I believe it in my core that um that by providing a multitude of resources at different levels, we can prevent more young people from ending up in your building. Yeah. Good. Yeah. You and Martin are raising in Marvin, damn it. There, there Marvin. It was live. I had it wrong on here. Marvin. Uh, are raising incredible sons together, right? Yeah. What does family mean to you today and how has fatherhood shaped the way you move through the world? Oh boy.
SPEAKER_01:Um, that's a good question. So if you'd asked me five years ago, uh, number one, if I ever thought I'd be married again, the answer would be no. Uh, number two, if I'd have two kids, the answer would be no. Um I I really I it's just been a I I have no other words, and it's just been a life-changing experience. And it's been a life-changing experience for the positive. Um both boys are phenomenal. Um our oldest is a um uh state champion wrestler and has been ever since he was younger. You know, I picked up I picked this up in when they were 13 and 11. Um, and so that's that's the window that I I've been there from that. Um both great guys, kids, young men. Um and I'm just I'm just so proud of them.
SPEAKER_00:What was your biggest fear walking into this knowing that Marvin had two boys? There was none. None. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I figured I could adapt and roll with it.
SPEAKER_00:It was a little rock, it was a little rocky. So where does that come from? The ability to say I had no fear, I was ready to do this. Where does that come from?
SPEAKER_01:Um, a lot of it comes from my work, because when the phone rings at the funeral home, you gotta you gotta just get in and do it. Do what you gotta do. Jump in and do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and a lot of it too comes from some certain life experiences, you know. So buying the funeral home is probably one of the most stressful times of my life. So you gotta remember that that deal started in December of 2019. Okay. Okay. These things happen in typically in about a 90-day window. Okay. Okay. So sign the letter of attent in 2019. We were moving towards underwriting in early 2020. Okay. And then COVID happened. Okay. So all the SBA loans got pushed to the side for underwriting because they had to do PVP stuff and this and the other. And um, and so then by the time it came back to underwriting, now the SBA had temporarily changed the rules and you got to prove this and you got to prove that. And there was a point, I was on a conference call um in June of 2020. Uh, so this didn't, I didn't buy them officially until July 20th of 2020, um, which was way longer than it should have.
SPEAKER_00:Um, where I was and you're dealing with COVID deaths. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. But so here's the thing, well, that's interesting is early on in the pandemic, and this ties into that story, okay. Our call volume did not spike from January through June. Okay. It was actually lower than it probably should have been. But part of that was everybody was keeping their distance, we're not getting the food. We had the initial okay, six weeks to flatten the curve, right? So, but what that did then for the funeral home was in 2019 where things were moving and and the PLs looked good to underwriting, and everything was great. So now come March, we can't have public funerals. We can't so everything that we were doing was either an immediate burial or a direct cremation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01:The two lowest items on the list.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Every funeral home does those. Okay. Where funeral homes shine and where funeral homes serve, and where we make our money is the full funeral. Full funerals and helping with the full funeral. You couldn't do that. We couldn't do it. So, fast forward now to June of 2020. I'm on a call with underwriting, and they're like, Boy, you've had this material adverse change. I hear those words, and I still have this, I still have this like Pavlonian reaction to material adverse change. Oh my god. Um, and I'm like, no shit, Sherlock. Yeah, we can't we can't do what you watch the news. And then on the flip side, and not to sound crass, I'm buying a funeral home in the middle of a global pandemic. I think we're gonna be all right. Right. Um and then it really, unfortunately for our community, it kicked up in the summer of 2020 when we had irresponsible people in our community not follow guidelines and bring that into our nursing homes. And then that's when it took off like wildfire. How many deaths did we have? I handled so from July 20th of 2020 to July 31st of 2020, I handled 27 deaths in our county. Almost all directly attributable to nursing homes, care facilities, and otherwise.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. How was that? That was uh I survived. It was interesting. Um but the but I guess the point is is is Who do you think? I've been through that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jumping into being a being a stepdad or they just call me Dan. Yeah, got it, got it. Is okay, that was not that was not a life, I mean it was life altering, don't get me wrong. It was hard, but it wasn't the scariest thing I've ever dealt with in my life. So what do you do to let go? I like to golf. Okay. I like to boat. Okay. Um that's about the two things that I really enjoy. Um, I do write. Um I will typically sit down and just like journaling or no, just on my I I can't write. I can't handwrite. No, no, but but I just I'll type it into Microsoft Word, I will get it out of my system, and then I'll close Microsoft Word. Do you want to save? Nope. Oh, okay. I just in and out Okay because there's very few people that I can actually talk to about some of what's involved in being a funeral director and some of the stuff that we actually have to approach and deal with. Which again goes back to what I said earlier. If anybody anybody wants to complain about the way I do it, you are more than welcome to even just come work one day with me. Just spend one day with me and and you'll see that it's not as rosy from the outside as it yeah, or rosy as it looked from the outside, I guess. So yeah. But no, except that's your go-to coffee, 71. This is my go-to, my friend 7-Eleven. Which one? Uh university in Maine. Okay, cool. Yeah. Uh been going there for eight years. Okay. Started going there when I first moved to town. Got to know Tracy. Yep. Uh, and that whole crew. Yeah. And then when new owners Tracy retired and and sold to the new owners, Griminder Love and Carter, the three that are up there. Wonderful people. Cool. Uh, they took a bad rap when they bought that store. And and I think they got an I think they got an unfair shake because they're you think?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, which is why I'm very supportive of it. Yeah. Um, and they they're just living the dream. They're just living the American dream.
SPEAKER_00:And I think I think we struggle with change in general. Oh, you think? Yeah. A little bit. Which I'm empathetic of because I struggle with change. Like Katrina will change one. I'm like, oh my God. But I think in our community, we, you know, like uh uh we can digress for a minute here, you know, with the rodeo grounds, right? They're they're doing a much needed, in my view, a much needed remote. I think about this. I think about um my my father-in-law, who's 80, I'm gonna get this wrong, 82, 81, 82, 83, having to walk up and over those god-awful stairs, just like from an accessible standpoint. They needed, but I also, you know, I see other the side of, oh god, it's not gonna look the same. It's not, they're taking away the history. And it's like, are we though? I mean, so we were keeping a whole half of it that's exactly the same.
SPEAKER_01:Half of it is exactly the same, and seating is seating. Okay, accessible seating is important, yeah. Um, I think the thing, two things that that are bothering people. Number one is, oh god, they're getting rid of the red wall. I haven't seen the plans for the inside of the stadium. I can't imagine that our rodeo board is dumb enough to get rid of the iconic red wall. Right. Okay, if I'm wrong about that, I will eat my words later. Sure. But that is the iconic red wall. Yeah. Um, and then the second is, oh, it looks like a football stadium, it looks like it's all brick, it doesn't have the Western flare, it doesn't have okay. Let's look at it. We were down there for the Golden Cider Fest uh a couple months ago. Okay. Um, walked around the back, and what I saw was aging infrastructure, dilapidated, needing to be painted or replaced T111 siding. If that's the Western motif, I'm sorry, I will take brick any day that's going to last, that's going to hold up, that's going to um I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I here's here's also where my brain goes. If that thing would have collapsed, which I'm just guessing it probably had some risk, then people would have been, oh, why didn't we fix it sooner? Yep. It's like, okay, well, which one do you want?
SPEAKER_01:You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. A lot of it, and that's where a lot of I guess overall regulation comes in just in our general lives, is we can complain about it. We're either gonna, yeah, we can complain about it now or we can complain about it because somebody didn't do something about it. You know, it's not unlike Marvin in his line of work, he does fire life safety inspection businesses. And you know, majority of everything is fine. Hey, your fire extinguishers are out of date. You know, I need to get those done, or you know, yeah, you shouldn't have seven extension cords plugged into each other. Um people could, you know, people give him grief over that. But it's like until your business burns down because you have seven extension cords plugged in.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, Marvin, he's not welcome at the house until after Christmas because I might have an extension cord or two with my Christmas lights. You're out of his jurisdiction anyway. Good. Good. No, you're I and I just I I try to look at it globally, all these any situations like with the pool or the fairgrounds, or you know, when there's a change of ownership. That's what kind of clicked with 7-Eleven. People are like, oh, those new people, and it's like, well, you know, and there's one constant in a life. Here it is. It's change. It's change.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and you know, it's interesting because um I try to be very intentional on social media. I try to be um the a voice of reason to a certain extent. Um, kind of like with the garbage cans downtown. Okay, everybody lost their ever-loving mind.
SPEAKER_00:Sorry, oh god, I've forgotten about the garbage cans.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, everybody loses their mind over oh my god, there's thousand-dollar garbage cans we should fix. So I'm in business, okay? And when I look at infrastructure, when I look at um, there's a reason that our cars at the funeral home generally stay newer. Okay. It's balancing the cost of ongoing maintenance, mileage, depreciation, so on and so forth, versus what's the cost of just continual operation? So as a as a business owner, I look at those downtown garbage cans and I go, okay, so yes, we could take these, they're aging. I spent enough time downtown, I've seen they look like crap right now. Okay. So we have two options do we pull them out and do we refurbish them? Okay. What's that going to cost? I guarantee you it's at least 800 bucks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. If not a little bit more. Okay. So is the root of the concern that we're getting rid of the old and buying new, or is it the cost? Because the cost argument is the same. And I made a post a while back about the garbage cans. I went to Uline. Uline's my go-to. I love Uline. I got all sorts of free stuff from Uline because I I do enough business with them. A standard Uline, ugly ass, run-of-the-mill, commercial outdoor garbage can cost$800.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Um, so what is our root concern? Are we mad that we're changing it? Are we mad that I I just don't know? And I think people have a tendency of complaining just to complain. And I try really hard to put things into perspective and then also not be one of those keyboard commandos who just complains to complain.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think you and I we and Henry and I were talking about this before downstairs before we went live. Is is that yes, I think you're right. I think um we're in a period of the world with social media that people are going to complain just to complain, just because that I have something to type about, or just in general. And you you like me, I like to try and I've done it on social media to just look at it from a whole perspective. And that's what you've done with the garbage cans. Like, oh yeah, that makes sense. It makes better sense. Just to bring um, and I you've said this a couple times to help bring people together rather than keep us separate, right? Because we've got enough of that. Let's find ways to bring us together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so one of the biggest things, um, I'm a huge fan of the TV show The West Wing. Oh, yeah. I'm not just a fan, I'm not just a super fan. I am like I have seen every episode, at least the whole time I am a twice at least. Okay, well, I'm way ahead of you. I'm a walking dictionary of West Wing. Okay, okay, walking encyclopedia of West Wing. And in one of the first season episodes, um, the president uses the quote, decisions are made by those who show up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So it's easy to sit back. Um, and I also equate it somewhat to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy of Well, yes, the plans were on display in a lock filing cabinet in the bottom of the back base, but you know, um, that's not how things work. It takes very little time to go to our county city website, county website. It's all there to get even just a 30,000-foot view of what's going on, yeah. Um and and try to understand the reasoning instead of just running out and complaining and running out. And um, but decisions are made by those who show up. If you don't like what's happening, look at what happened look look at what happened up on Craig's Hill. That master plan has been vastly changed because of citizen engagement. Okay. Did everybody get what they wanted? No. Is it a reasonable compromise, in my opinion? 100%. Okay. Solves the fire lane issue, keeps the park intact, provides pedestrian safety. And the one major complaint now is oh god, they're gonna put a sidewalk and a railing in along the edge. Okay, having just been up there uh a couple weeks ago, probably not a bad idea. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because one as just one elderly person or one person to fall down the side of that hill. Yeah. And someone will then go, why didn't we do something sooner?
SPEAKER_01:No, there's a fence along there. Oh, I know. But I'm just the same time. Yeah, yeah. Well, why didn't why didn't we fix it? So you're um citizen engagement, especially with local elected government, is very important. Um, and I respect people more who take that engage or do that engagement and then share their views versus those that just share just non comments. It's like this mental health that just got passed. Yeah, okay, more new taxes. No, it's a tax you've been paying for one cent on every ten dollars. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And it goes, I fine, I'm fine with that. It goes to help those in our community it actually lowers.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You you made me think of a quote that I use when I give talks on on you know kind of motivational stuff and getting people busy and active in their lives is you know, if you if you want to get in the game, go to where the game's being played.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right? If if you're frustrated with the city, attend city council meeting. Go to the, and they do post. They post a lot of stuff, go get in. Rather than, which we see this happen all too often, it's very frustrating. I get frustrated when people do this, they spread nonsense, uninformed information, and then that spreads like wildfire. Like it's um it's very frustrating.
SPEAKER_01:So, yeah, like you said, go well, and and here's the thing if you really want to affect change in the city, don't wait for it to get to city council. Yeah, get involved at the commission level. Find out what you're passionate about and get involved at the commission level. Because at the commission and committee level, that's where the real governing happens. Yeah, that's where the real decisions get made. It's true. By the time it gets to city council, a lot of that's already happened and it's a final approval stage. So if you really want to get involved, pay attention to your commissions parks and rec, downtown uh landmarks and design, all of them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, and very good. Okay, we're gonna go to the final two questions. We're gonna wrap this up.
SPEAKER_01:This has been asked me about my new fun side venture.
SPEAKER_00:Do you want I'm gonna ask? Okay, well, again, we need to talk about it. You've been worn in your so some know, some don't. Tell us about your new fun venture.
SPEAKER_01:So this actually ties in. The reason I brought that up is it actually ties into that uninformed nonsense. Yes, okay. So a lot of folks know that in 2023 KXLE got sold. Yep. Um remember that so and then at the end of 2023, the whole staff quit. Remember that the whole staff consisted of about four people, okay? Um did they quit though? They did, yeah, and it was fine. It was a natural transition point. Okay. And I don't fault, I don't fault those that left for leaving why they did. Um, they're friends of mine, it's all it's all good. Um, but so in that uninformed realm, I fire off this letter because I'd been advertising on KXLA. I fire off this letter. I'm done advertising with you. You're not a town corporation, you've got it. Okay. And I get a phone call a couple weeks later from a guy by the name of Bill Wolfenberger. And Bill says, he's got this very deep voice. He's like, I just want to come over and introduce myself and explain to you my side of the story and then let you decide. Okay. So I'm expecting this hotshot radio. Corporate guy. Yeah. Okay. So not only does he come over, he comes over. I'm running late because it's in January, which is a busy month for us, half hour late before from our appointment time. That man sat in the lobby to wait to talk to me. And I come around the corner, and what do I find? But nothing more than this sweet little, at the time, 78-year-old man. Wow. Okay. Nicest guy in the world. And how much did that throw you off? Way off. So we start talking so much. You were ready. So much so. Not only did he get me to re- re-up my advertising on KXLE, he got me to do it at more than what I was really. I liked his story. I liked what he was telling me. And this and the story was is is is it was him and two other business partners. Um, he owns a bunch of radio stations in Aberdeen. He's done all his most of his life. So he's a nice local small-town radio guy. And the more that I got to know him over the last couple years, we concocted a plan in June of this year, then, that um, rather than follow a path that there was like five different paths that he and his partners could have followed with KXLE.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um, one of which was move the tower even further down the canyon. You shared that, send it out to Yakima. Yeah, Ellensburg would be technically covered, but it wouldn't be our station. Okay. That was one of the things. And Bill was not willing to let that happen.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So he and I concocted a plan um right in the little corner booth of uh Roadhouse, uh um, where we figured out a way to bring me on as partner. Okay. Um, and I would help him with what we have going on. So he bought out his other partners. I came in, and we've got a lot of exciting stuff planned for K Exelli, most of which we're gonna trickle out. Yeah, the biggest one right now is we're getting our signal back to where it should be. Right about the following that. So um there's been a noticeable signal decline um in the last couple years is because they've shut off Lookout Mountain, moved over to Manashtash. Okay, so that shifts the contour. Um let way less power. Um, but we're just wrapping up, rebuilding the lookout site, um, and we will be back to when we flip the switch on that new transmitter with the new antenna, the signal quality will be better um than it has been since um it'll go back to the way it was before the Taylor Bridge fire. Cool in 2012. Wow. Because when the where our site is, when the Taylor Bridge fire happened, it whipped up over and damaged some transmission lines that kind of got held together with bubble gum and duct tape and kind of plugged along. So getting the signal and quality improved is the first. Okay. Um but there's the the why, which I know that was gonna be your next question. Um 13 years of doing nothing but death has taken its toll on my psyche. Okay. Um and while I can be engaged in the funeral home and do I can't do half the fun stuff with a funeral home that you can do with a radio station. You know, I can't, you know, I we used to do community events, uh be present at community events is a funeral home senior fairs and this, that, and the other. And we still do those, but nobody wants to talk to the funeral guy. Yeah, yeah, you know, nobody wants to think about it. Yeah, so it's just an extension to give me a creative outlook and kind of do some other fun stuff. So we got a lot in the hopper and it's gonna be it's gonna be fun. And I think I think by June um people are gonna be really excited about what the and it's I'm not gonna call it a finished product, but what the revised what the revised KXLE is gonna look like or the new, the rebuilt, the I was gonna say the reboot in some ways, keeping it local, yeah, keeping it from going away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the big thing too, is is I mean, Bill didn't have to do what he had to do. Yeah. Um, and so he should be the hero in this equation. Not me. I mean, I'm just yeah, the local guy. But um, no, he stepped up in a huge way, and he's keeping our KXLE KXLE.
SPEAKER_00:Well, not catalyst was you firing off that letter. It was. And look what happened. Yeah, that's so sometimes half-cham information isn't always bad.
SPEAKER_01:Well, he brought priority, probably not the best best way, but it wasn't dealt with over email or social, it was dealt with let's me, person to person. Yeah, and I think that we solve a lot of our problems as a society, as a community, if we actually sit down and talk to each other face to face because we're gonna talk different to each other this way than if I'm sitting behind a keyboard sipping my coffee, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, agreed. I think we we need more of that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So last question.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, no, we got two more. Two more. All right, here it is. What's a message of hope you would want to offer to someone listening who feels, and we've talked a lot about connection, who feels disconnected, isolated, or unsure of where they belong.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, the first coming from a funeral director, is no matter how bad you think it is, it's not that bad. You're not in your building. Yeah. Yeah. No matter how bad you think it is, and I'll look to the camera when I say this, you may be in a moment where you think that there's only one way out of this. And that's not the case. Because I have never had a family sit in my arrangement room um who was okay with the circumstances around somebody taking their own life. Okay. Um that's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Have a lot of resources in town. Find the resources to connect yourself and um you know, I it goes back to the campaign that was big on social media a number of years ago, the It Gets Better campaign. It always gets better. Okay. If 17-year-old me could now look at 40 40-year-old me, is it the path that I was planning on taking? Yeah, not necessarily, yeah. But 17-year-old me would go, all right, we did we did okay. Yeah, you know, and I that was so 17-year-old me would have been like 2002, so things would have been like rad. Yeah, right. Yeah, nice, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Good. Okay, yeah. Thank you. That's a good that's a good message on that. Uh it makes me think of feelings are temporary, right? We have a range of feelings. Um coming from a guy who, when you when you said that, I remember right over here on third, I was in a massive mental health crisis, and it was Officer Ray Sadeno who came over because there was a welfare call for me, because my best thinking at the time was like I didn't want to live. And he, you know, got on a knee in front of me and and gave me compassion. Yep. And he's a good dude. Oh, super good, and um led me to resources that helped me to shift that thinking. And and um, you're right. And and it's interesting to hear you, you you see families who deal with the aftermath of suicide, and no family sits there going, gosh, we're really glad this happened. No, no, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, no, it just it always gets better. Yeah, it always gets better. Good.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, here we go. Let's wrap it up. This one always gets me a little nervous because I have I've had a few guests now, and I just leave this open. What's a question you've always wanted to ask me?
SPEAKER_01:Oh boy, can you warn me about that? And I didn't I didn't do my homework. Okay. You're gonna have to give me an F on that one.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, there's not really a question I've ever wanted to ask you, but just in general, um, I think you do a ton for our community. I really do.
SPEAKER_00:I think you uh what's TikTok scene that you're oh it's verify that we're still uh there we go.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we're here, we're good. Um, I just want to compliment you on what you do for our community. Um I I really think that your your heart and your passion is there. Um and your story is just amazing. Um and I think that you bring some clarity to a lot of people who can't get past the label of oh, they're just they're just a tweaker, they're just an ad. They're just uh you know, people move people follow that path and they move beyond that. And you normalize that um and you help normalize that in our community in a way that I don't think people have you have you have changed my perspective on that. So um I just want to compliment you for thank you for what you do.
SPEAKER_00:And it it gives me chills when you say that I normalize it because I know what you're saying, not normalizing that people struggle and go, but normalize that we go through different periods of life. Um I walk by Safeway multiple times during the week. And multiple times during the week when I bought by, there's usually someone standing there with a sign. And what I personally, because I you know been on the streets, couch surf, you know, lived a whole different life, and I've been in that place of needing help. Um, I always remind myself that it's not us versus them. That's right. It's us. We are I I say this, I am them, right? And I you've seen my before and after. Um, and so I appreciate you saying that. And uh this this little you know, one hour talk has helped me to see we actually uh and this is what I believe about all of us. We have more in common than we do different, right? You're a very different person than I am, but you know, hearing your different careers, um, your different ways of thinking, uh uh giving back to the community, the importance of that and the why, right? My why is in and I say this, it's not wholly it, but I took from communities, and now I want to give back. But also, I was also raised poor. We didn't have much, you know. And when you when you talk about, you know, I don't want for much. My boat is a 1993 maximum. You know, me and Katrina are like that. You've seen now where we live and what we do. You know, our our needs are met and we have some extra, and I'm good with that. Yeah, yeah. And so, like you, we want to give back, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I think society in general would be much happier if we just were happy with what with what we have. Yeah. Um, which not to not to say that you don't keep striving. Yeah, sure. For sure. Don't be miserable if you don't hit the next level. Okay. With the lot of things I would like in life that I can't afford. Yeah. But it's just not there yet. You know? Um just be happy. Yeah, right. As I say, I have two I have two sayings. Number one, as you travel down the road of life, always remember I'll be right behind you. Because I'm the funeral director and I'm always gonna be right behind you. And remember, any day that you any day that you get up and get out of bed is a good day. Yeah. Okay. Any day you're not at my place, either living or dead, is a good day. And number three, it's always better to be seen than to be viewed. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Well, let's wrap it up right there. Awesome. Well, thank you for joining me.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, thank you. Yep, this was great. Thanks for having me over. Yeah, perfect.
SPEAKER_00:Very good.