Deep Dive with Dr D
Discussions on life and living with Dr D. A man who has risen from the lowest depths of life to the amazing life he has now.
Deep Dive with Dr D
Breaking Cycles, Building Connection (w/Guest Hailee Maxfield)
Some stories grab you because they’re polished. This one disarms you because it’s real. Hailee joins us to share how a childhood marked by abuse, isolation, and impossible rules became the soil for grit, empathy, and a fierce commitment to connection. She didn’t meet some of her siblings until she was nineteen; today, big sister is the title she wears with pride. Between a neighbor’s spare room, a wrestling coach who wouldn’t let her quit, and a boss who models kindness with backbone, she built a support web that turned survival into growth.
We walk through the moments that changed her trajectory: being kicked out at sixteen and taken in by neighbors who heard the fights, working two jobs through high school, and finding mentors who taught her how to stand her ground. Later, a hospital night led to diagnoses of CPTSD and ADHD and—more importantly—a roadmap. Therapy that explains the brain’s chemistry. Movement and hiking to settle the nervous system. A rescue dog who finally made nighttime feel safe. Small, practical goals that rebuild agency: a promotion, a new skill, a daily habit that sticks.
What stands out is how Hailee turns service into healing. She connects with customers while she fixes their phones, listens for what they need, and treats each interaction as practice in presence. Along the way, we talk about breaking generational trauma, learning to set real boundaries, and why closing off from the world isn’t protection if it starves you of hope. Her message is simple and strong: keep going, keep talking to people, and let community be part of your plan.
If this conversation gives you something—a tool, a nudge, a bit of courage—share it with someone who needs it. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what small habit helps you keep moving forward?
Welcome to Deep Dive with Dr. D, our Sunday morning recording. And I have Hayley with us today as our guest. I'm really excited to talk to her. There is a couple things for you, your Douglas annual Christmas card. Yeah. And I don't think you have a copy of my book.
SPEAKER_03:I don't.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. So I'll do my plug for it. If you haven't gotten Grit Over Chain, there it is. You can get it wherever you buy books. That's your copy. Enjoy. That's the uh short, short story of the wild ride of my life.
SPEAKER_00:I'm excited.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's uh it's pretty wild. Yeah, pretty crazy to think. So uh I have Haley with me today, and it's been just about a year that we've known each other.
SPEAKER_00:Actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Almost exactly, isn't it? Yeah, almost exactly a year. Uh Sam and Mrs. Claus were just at T-Mobile yesterday, our second time, and yeah, it was a year ago.
SPEAKER_00:You broke you break dance broke danced. I did yesterday.
SPEAKER_04:She posted the video and that was hilarious. That little boy was so excited to see Santa.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think you heard him, but as he was leaving, um he was like, uh Mary Christm Christ, like you couldn't pronounce it and stuff.
SPEAKER_04:That was funny. That was great. So let's do that. Um, I know you. I know a little bit of you. I know, you know, we actually uh, you know, you shared bits of your life and your transformation that you've had for yourself um physically, um, and then I think emotionally too, I could say that. Um but uh for those that don't know you in the world, here's your opportunity to share with who you are as Haley.
SPEAKER_00:That's a loaded question. Yeah, I'm not a lot of things. Yeah. Um I think my my favorite title is being a big sister. Um to my I I have eight siblings, so but we all either have a different mom or a different dad. Well, it's called like different moms or different dads, or some of us have like same dad, but then eight siblings. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, go on.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and we're all everywhere, like the ages are everywhere.
SPEAKER_04:Um and are you in contact with all of them?
SPEAKER_00:For the most part, yes. Um one of them I love a lot. He's on his own little wild ride. He'll probably have his own book someday. But I do get texts here and there, and those are always really fun. Um, but for the most part, I'm the most involved with my three little brothers. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um where do they live?
SPEAKER_00:Uh they live in Tacoma. Oh, with their mom.
SPEAKER_03:Did I know this?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I'm from Tacoma.
SPEAKER_00:No way.
SPEAKER_03:That's exciting.
SPEAKER_00:I'm from Renton.
SPEAKER_03:So what part of Tacoma?
SPEAKER_00:Actually, okay, you're gonna get mad at me because it's uh Algona That's not Tacoma. Okay, it's on Tacoma Street. But like I think I say Algona people don't know where it's not. Yeah, they don't know where it is.
SPEAKER_04:Algona Pacific, yes.
SPEAKER_00:So in that area. Yeah, um.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and where uh the age where are you oldest, youngest for um so I'm in the middle, so like my siblings on my bio mom side don't know my siblings on my bio dad's side. So it's really embarrassed. Confused because like they don't share a parent, so I'm in the middle on both, but then I'm the oldest sister, I'd say I'm the most involved with the boys. Okay. Um, and so my youngest is nine, and then it's a 15-year-old and a six-year-old. Okay. Which the nine-year-old still thinks I'm cool, so I'm really hanging on to that. But I do adore all three of them. Um, and uh it's like I don't know, but that's that's my favorite title, I think.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so being a sister.
SPEAKER_00:Being the big sister. The big sister, yeah, that's because I get to like spoil them and and uh play games with them, and it's it's nice watching like they're so intelligent and they're really good. Like watching them blossom under certain circumstances. Like I don't want to talk too much about their situation just because like not keep their privacy, but they're very resilient and like it's it's fun when you have three kids and like we have all the same facial features, but like I'm half Asian, I don't know if you knew that, and so um, but like obviously have the red hair, so they have like the darker skin and like the really dark hair, but like we have the same nose and the same eyes, and it's like watch even though I didn't meet them until I was 19 as well. Oh so like Wow, even though we didn't weren't raised together, but like like we all do this thing where if we're mad we kind of ball up our fists, and I didn't know that until for a while, but you saw them. Oh well, I would I was telling them, I was trying to teach them like you need to use your words, like not you know, when you get upset, like we trying to you know have them be more in touch with their emotions, and then I got mad at T-Mobile because the customer was being mean to me, and then I balled up my fist, and then they're like, Hayley, like I've never seen that before, you balled up your face, and I was like, That was after weeks of me telling the boys like you can't do that, you've got to use your emotions. But even though we didn't grow up together, like we have a lot of those same traits, and that's been really fun and interesting.
SPEAKER_04:So, how did you so you didn't meet them until you were 19?
SPEAKER_00:Uh yes.
SPEAKER_04:How did that come about?
SPEAKER_00:Um well after I graduated high school, I went to community college in Walla Walla. Um I didn't I knew I had a biodad out there, didn't wasn't um he skedaddled really fast. And so um I reached out to actually I reached out to him on Facebook because I had a picture of him and I knew his name. Um and I think when you come from like what I grew up with, you kind of you st you you make things up in your head where I'm like, oh my real dad's out there, like he's gonna love me, he's gonna, you know. And so I kind of this picture of him that I had, I kind of made up like a knight in shiny armor. And then um I reached out to him, he didn't answer, but then I have an older brother that I reached out to, and then that's kind of how that started. Okay. But um, my mother has a type, and so um it didn't describe her type. Um very um like power is in being intimidating and screaming and and like I don't want to work for anything, like uh the world owes me everything, like I don't want to have to work for it. Um that's the man she very uh likes other women on top of that woman, and like um just very narcissistic, very um didn't really make a lot of use of their life and to make up for that, like to I'm powerful by play the victim role. Oh yes, and yeah, woe is me. Yeah, I mean just very it didn't go very well because obviously at that point I like had I'm an adult and um I pretty much raised myself like uh I didn't really like how he was speaking to his wife and how he was speaking to the boys and how like and when he wanted women to be submissive, but you didn't raise me submissive because you weren't there, like he didn't really like that, and so um sent me on my way, um, and then took the boys away, and that was really hard for like four years I didn't get to speak to them, but at this point he is no longer allowed in the house, and um I'm very close with his wife now, and uh there's uh certain things in place where he's not allowed within a range, and so it was really hard at first, but it kind of worked out for the best because now I have my little brothers and like I have this new relationship with their mom, and it it worked out. I didn't see it that way for a while.
SPEAKER_04:I was really this is you know, um, I think it would take a few sit-downs to really we're not gonna do this to really delve into your multi-layered convoluted path.
SPEAKER_00:I told you it was a like a lot of things. I know.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, and well, I mean, if you read my book, you'll oh, okay, we we have a lot of similarities in that, you know, I had dads of the week growing up. I didn't find my biological father until I was 29. Had a different experience. I was fortunate. We actually had a decent relationship until he passed, but um I wanna I wanna ask you. In fact, this might be Oh yeah. This let's we'll we'll go into the first so uh uh Ellensburg. Look, before we do this, before we go to the question, what brought you to Ellensburg?
SPEAKER_00:Um school. I got my AA in Walla Walla. Yeah. I finished out there.
SPEAKER_04:So this was So you were gonna come to Central? Yes. Okay, so that's what's brought you here. And you've been at T-Mobile how long now?
SPEAKER_00:Three years.
SPEAKER_04:Three years, a while.
SPEAKER_00:Three-ish years, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, and I'm an observer of people. Like I'm an observer, I call you know, you call this term situational awareness, and I know you have that. You probably have it as at a very acute level because I know you've been through a lot of things, so you're very aware of what's going on. Anyway, and I'll never forget watching you with this customer. I don't remember the you it happened yesterday too when you were doing the the screen protector for the guy. You you yeah, you you were sitting there, so Haley's sitting there taking care of this customer. You're you're taking care of him, and I'm watching you like you've got it down to an art form putting the screen protector on. But while you're doing that, you are getting to know that customer. You are having a conversation. So this goes to this first question. We we haven't known each other a long time, but it was clear right away you're great with people because you I saw it a year ago when I was in there, and it's what really made me want to get to know you a little bit. Like that's that's like a powerful skill to have, right? Where do you think that ability to connect with others comes from for you?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I mean, I think part of it is just my natural personality, but a larger part of that, whether that's my personality now, um, I think I it's really easy to put myself in other people's shoes because like I've lived in the city and then I've also lived in small towns. Like I've been morbidly obese and also like underweight. I've you know, I've been had nobody to talk to, like no friends at all, and I've you know had to like where I'm pretty comfy in like the amount of connections I've had. Um I really I like I'm I've the middle child, I'm the big sister in some parts of like I I think I've been homeless. I've also like had a roommates and lived in apartments, and you know, like Do you mind if I ask how old you are? Twenty-five.
SPEAKER_04:You're I was okay. So I was uh I think Katrina and I were talking, like how I I put you no more than so at twenty-five, so in in twenty five short years, you might think that's a long, but you have been through a lot. Yes. Um a lot. You you I think it was through text messages where you sent me the picture of you. You were what was your weight at one time?
SPEAKER_00:I was three hundred pounds.
SPEAKER_04:Three hundred pounds.
SPEAKER_00:Eighteen.
SPEAKER_04:Eighteen. Yes. Yeah. And living in a you you can share what you want to share, but you were living in a pretty shitty situation.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I'm pretty open about it. Like I'm I I'm very proud of like I mean, I I what you've been able to come out of. Yeah, I I think I'm still like every I feel like even from a year ago when you first met me, I'm a different person. Like I'm constantly evolving and changing and like learning. Um, but like I I was abused from when I was four till I was sixteen. Um, and that's a long time. That's when your brain is developing. Um and like, you know, I think it's common for like when you don't I didn't have an emotional connection to my mother or father. I think the only or not even my it was my stepdad. Like my my mother married my stepdad three months after knowing him. And so um like very early on, um, I think it was it was hard watching or like growing up and and it was like your entire existence is just like an inconvenience. Um it kind of stems with like what I said about my bio dad. Um I think my parents that I grew up with were um very unhappy with their lives, and so I think I was just my mother got pregnant at 16 with my sister and then had me with her softball coach or her t-ball coach, and um I think she kind of became a product of her environment. She dated the same men over and over again. Um I uh and so I think at that point, like I was just a reflection of like another mistake she made. Um, and then when you had like the other kids in the family, you know.
SPEAKER_04:So was the abuse from your mom or the dad?
SPEAKER_00:It was both. I think it started with the dad. Um, and then I think um it was hard because like as a child responding to the environment was in, like they would tell this story to people. They would would say like, um, oh yeah, Haley's always been like a problem child because um I would my mother would leave me with my stepdad, um, and this is as like a four years old, you know, um, when she would go to work and stuff like that, and I would scream so hard I would pass out. And like other people would think, like, maybe like this child's terrified of being alone with this person, but I was like I was labeled as a problem child because I would throw a tantrum every time she would leave me with him, and that kind of became like the label for the rest of my life. It was you're a problem child. I was the problem child. Well, and it was like all of us were punished. Like, granted, like this man would um like my mother would give him puppies to like distract him, I think. And the puppies would do normal things like pee in the house or you know, like chew on something, and then we would have to watch him beat them, and then they would bring them back to the um like it was that's how he treated us as kids too. It was like you did any like um I even broke my leg when I was young. I was I don't remember the exact day, I was probably like five or six, maybe a little bit older. Um, and I I broke it off something really little, like it it didn't seem like I broke it, but I was in a lot of pain. Um and I remember like it for for days, like I remember crying in the car, like my leg was broken, but it wasn't it was like fractured in in two places, but it wasn't like a clean break, you know, it was like the bone sticking out. Um, and for days I like I was crying about it or whatever, and it was like, Oh, you're such a princess, like like you like you just want attention, like suck it up, you know, like da-da-da. They didn't believe me that I was in pain, and that kind of became like my th the rest of my life. It was anytime I needed care or anything like that, it was like you're so spoiler, or you think the world revolves around you. Um and it kind of just like that's why I gained so much weight because that's the the comfort I had. Um, it was I didn't have a mom to go to when I was sad. Um I think she would also like again became a product of her environment. Um so she both of my parents were very morbidly obese um and um unhappy with each other. And so it it was like they would have a bad day at work and then it was like they would come home and and put you in situations where like you couldn't not get in trouble. Um and uh like the power came from um humiliation and and beatings. Um and like my step as a you know got a little bit older, my stepdad would threaten me with like GR parties, he would call them, I don't know, I think, but he would make me like strip down and then clean his bathroom. And it was like while screaming at you and and spitting on you, like telling you things, and so um like you you learn very early on to just like like for most of my life, I I think I was just numb. And even then when you're not giving them the reaction, like you're not crying or you're not, then it just makes it worse. And so there was no winning. You adapt to the environment. Yeah, there was times where and and it's it's hard now as an adult because like I work with kids a lot. I'm a nanny, I I have my little brothers, like I've been in schools, and it's like obviously kids can be frustrating. Like there's times where like I am, you know, especially with my teenage brothers, like you know, you but I've never once wanted to hurt them or humiliate them, or you know, and so that's always been hard for me to come to terms with, especially like when I'm you know, I have nanny toddler, you know, and it's like I can be so like overwhelmed or frustrated, and it's never once been like I I'm gonna feel better by like hurting this kid.
SPEAKER_03:Um it doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't, and uh it's taken me a while to like come to terms. I think I still um it's like I'm 25 now, but people don't realize like I didn't I didn't start treating like what has happened to me until like a few years ago. Um and so like I don't um I don't think people understand that like I'm doing the best I can for what I've been dealt with and I think like it's like you're given no life skills and they're just like thrown out there and it's like you don't luck.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah and then on top of that like you don't you're shamed and guilted when you don't figure it out. Yes, but you were given the shit hand, dealt this terrible hand, right, as a child, and now go out and be an adult, and when you fuck that up, because you were given no skills here, the world goes, Well, you need to figure it out. Yes, right, and that's garbage.
SPEAKER_00:And I mean I think that's where I guess uh like come in terms of it, like that's why I do so well with people, and like I do genuinely care about people, I do genuinely want to like I don't I see a lot of emotions that come up when people are frustrated, you know, stuff like that. But on top of it, like the only I wish I could say, like, I think when you go through what I went through, you want to be like, I've done it all by myself, like I don't need anybody, but that's not the case. Like, I didn't have any skills after I left, and I had to learn those. And the only way I got those was by making connections and like talking to people and and like I tried how how'd you figure that out though?
SPEAKER_04:How'd you figure out a way out?
SPEAKER_00:I I think I've been very lucky um in the fact that like I I couldn't turn to like I turned to food, okay, but I I didn't really I have it's hard because I don't want to like put my siblings' business out there, but like I always had a sibling to take care of. Okay, and because I have my stepbrother, um obviously like he came with my stepdad. We were four months apart, and at that point it's like having a twin brother. Like you go through things at the exact same age at the exact same time. Um it's I feel like every child who is in like it's always different for each. Um that's the brother that I think fully understands exactly what we went through because we went through it at the exact same time.
SPEAKER_04:So having that common common experience, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um the difference was uh we handle things very differently. Um and so my brother did turn to. Drugs and stuff like that, and um it was kind of like a back and forth. Um I'm very and it's kind of the same thing. He was responding to his environment, it was labeled a bad kid. I actually remember like when we were younger, um he had taken a bunch of pills, and um I remember like having to like shove my fingers in his mouth, you know, like trying to get him to throw up and like spending the whole night like checking his breathing. Um my parents didn't take him to the hospital. They didn't, they next day they beat him and and called him a drug addict. They didn't realize like instead of being like, Why did he take all these pills? It was you're how dare you. Yeah, you're a drug addict.
SPEAKER_04:Make my life uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I remember being terrified of like, I think my brother, you know, and so we went through very different paths, and like he kind of had to rely on me, so I kind of had to stay on that path. And I I think that's just kind of a coasted off that. I think being a sibling has kind of saved my life because I I couldn't like if I fall down, then like everybody falls down at that point. And I think it should like I don't know. Um I I remember as a kid too, like I didn't I was obviously you're overweight and you're a redhead, you're an easy target. And so I didn't really have I in elementary school I didn't have like I was bullied relentlessly, and then it's like that's kind of all you know, because it's like you go to school and you're bullied and told that you're disgusting, and you know, and then you go home and you're told that you're disgusting. That's your identity for all you have. That's your only and then um so I I I made friends with um there was like paras and I recess and stuff like that. There was I kind of realized very early on that like even though these kids were, you know, obviously I wanted friendship, I wanted to belong, but then they couldn't even give me like the resources I needed at the time. Like there was an elderly lady down the street, I would go down there and like I'd spend my birthday party with her. We rented the Shrek movies, but like she would like whenever my parents would kick me out, um, I would go to her and she would give me like a bed to sleep in. Um I we didn't have jackets, I remember it being cold, and so um I kind of realized like I'm making friends with these this teachers on the playground, you know, like the the Reese teachers, and like they're realizing I don't have a jacket. And like, so like one of them knitted me gloves. And then I was like, Oh, like like I have a brother, like can you know, and so and this was in elementary school, I kind of I realized that like making connections was the way to get what you like as a form of survival, but it taught you that while you're going through this highly traumatic situation that there were adults out there that could care.
SPEAKER_04:You didn't have friends in your peer groups because that was a terrible experience, but there were some adults that cared.
SPEAKER_00:I will say around middle school, I figured out that if you're funny, then you can be as fat as you want. Um and I think so, like I I did have genuine I you know at the as you get older, like you know, stuff doesn't and so I I did have genuinely good friends, and actually that's kind of what um when I was 16, um, you you're kind of you're start they my brother had gotten in a lot of trouble and gotten taken out um or or like they kicked him out. I think at that point it was as we're getting older and able to like advocate for ourselves and like stand up, it was easier to just get rid of us. Um and so when you say they kicked him out, what did that look like? I I wasn't there that when it happened. I think like after you get hit a lot, it doesn't affect you as much.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Um but when you say they kicked him out, I came home and they just said he was gone. I'm assuming there was a fight. I know exactly what happened because it happened to me a couple weeks ago.
SPEAKER_03:But where did he go?
SPEAKER_00:Uh he went to the streets um and then he went and stayed with a friend. Um I kind of started, I think he's still on the spiral for that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but a few weeks I was so over it at this point. And um, like uh so I I don't remember everything. I'd come home. And I would also like to say like the punishments that were dealt out, it's it's I never smoked, I never drank, I never went out. I followed my curfew to a tea. I also worked two jobs in high school and I was underage, so my bank account was connected to theirs. Every single paycheck I made for my jobs went to them. So I worked two jobs in high school, and then I've not seen any of that money. They took all of it. Um so the punishments that were being dealt out, like I was a good kid, and it took me a while to realize that, but like getting your like you were following the rules, you can go to the city of the case. I followed crazy rules to a T, but it was like I was tired from working two jobs, and and it was like you would come home, and if they caught you sleeping, it was you know, it you're you're so lazy, you're so di like it was it. I still can only sleep in like two hour increments because like you had to listen to you cannot be caught sleeping. Um, like I there'd be a s I remember my mom shoving my head into a sink because there was a speck left on there when I was doing the dishes. Granted, they never cleaned, they never did anything like that.
SPEAKER_04:Well, we've been talking about this a little bit, but maybe just expand on this question. So you've been open and we've been talking about having some struggles earlier in life. You've had a lot of struggles. Like, I don't I you know, if you read my book, you know, I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. My siblings and I, all of us, are all victims of abuse of all right. So I really it's familiar to me what you're talking about. But even with that, we we don't we don't share the the horrors of what you I know experienced. And so we're just hearing snippets, and I and I think that's normal. I think that's okay, right? So you've had some struggles.
SPEAKER_00:A little bit, right?
SPEAKER_04:And you're you're 25 and you're sitting here with me, and and and I I admire you not because you've had struggles, but I admire you for how you present yourself in the world as a 25-year-old woman who's been through what you've been through. So here's the question: what's something you've learned from those experiences that still shapes who you are today?
SPEAKER_00:I I always say like I've done a lot of I still do a lot of therapy. I still do a lot of um, I think I I learned that I think being the black sheep also kind of saved me. I think you know, when you're growing up, like your parents can do no wrong. Like you just want their love and validation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think if they would have loved and cared about me, I would have probably ended up like them. Um I I I I I learned what it looks like on the outside. Like your power does you your power doesn't come from hurting other people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I remember being a little kid, and it was like anybody that they seem they deemed like less than them. So like McDonald's workers or restaurant workers, anybody. It was like they were so unhappy with themselves that that's did they work? They did.
SPEAKER_03:What did they do?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I don't know if I'm I don't know. It's like she did mortgaging.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Um they had jobs, they had careers. So to the outside world, they were probably great people.
SPEAKER_00:That's what was really frustrating.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:He could be very funny and charming and on the outside, very yeah.
SPEAKER_04:My abuser was an icon in the community. He was a deacon at his church. He was like uh uh like just everyone was like, oh, he's the best ever. But they didn't know what was happening behind closed doors. So they had that image. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Well, to the I think um he was in the military and he hid behind that. Yeah, oh I'm like he loved that title. He loved like um and so I think he hid behind like I how could I be that person?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So you so if I heard you correctly, so by you being the black sheep, because I want to try to frame this right. By you being the black sheep, it's helped you to not be like them.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Um because oh, so like with the McDonald's or gonna stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember being like we would go out to a restaurant or something. One, they would always try to get their meal for free, but two, it was they loved putting like it was horrifying. Like they would always be so disrespectful to the staff, they'd always start a problem. Um, I I remember going through a McDonald's line once, and like the lady was nice, and then like I remember some uh like he it was a young woman and he was like, That's why you don't have any teas, like like just screaming at her um over a McDonald's order.
SPEAKER_04:And you're you're the child with these adults, and you're watching this happen.
SPEAKER_00:I would literally every time this happened at a restaurant, we would go out to the car, I would be like, I have to go to the bathroom and run back inside and try to apologize to all the staff.
SPEAKER_02:Really?
SPEAKER_00:That happened, like I it was it's still like I work in customer service. As soon as I'm on the other end of that, I'm like, I'll tip you like 90% of the bill. Like, I'm always like, I it's like I think you have to know. Yes, I I still like I I still get anxious.
SPEAKER_04:I would be shocked beyond measure to ever, and again, I've only known you a year, but I've seen you how you are in the world, and I would never see that from you. Never ever. Like that you would treat someone like that.
SPEAKER_00:I would I am like I I know that uh it takes me so long to like give up on people or to like get upset. And so when I get you think too much, yes, but also I'm I'd say like I said, I feel like I'm a different person than when I met you last year. Like I'm just like within the last I think five months or so, yeah. Like I've really I've I think it's a double-edged sword where it's like I think I open myself up to everybody, and it's like I need to take care of everybody, and then also like if I give up on people, on my parents who gave up on me, you know. But then um now it's kind of where I'm really like when you have let everyone have access to you and just like keep you don't have anything left. And so now it's like I'm standing strict on my boundaries and like standing up for myself. And it's a it's my boss is actually and like my boss and his wife are awesome. Like they they um Yeah, I'm gonna have him on.
SPEAKER_03:That's what he said.
SPEAKER_00:He's awesome. Yeah, um, and like both of them have been like people that you know always make the best of their situation.
SPEAKER_04:Like he just seems like a kind person, like just a good human.
SPEAKER_00:He's he's like an example of like the opposite of the men that we've experienced, where it's like maybe didn't, you know, had whatever trials and tribulations left. Yeah, is like 100% a girl dad and like is literally always there for the store and has told us like it told me specifically like you need to stand up for yourself, like you need to imagine if we had that when we were a kid. I would have been a powerhouse, right? I'd probably be like, I don't know, I'm cool.
SPEAKER_04:I hear what you're saying. You are a powerhouse now, but I also agree with you. Imagine like that flag is from the one stepdad I had along the way that actually gave a shit, Johnny, and he's why I'm the father I am today. But like that was an anomaly, right? I had all these oh dads of the week. That's what we had. It was fucking great, and they were not good. Yeah, okay. Okay, these are similar questions, but I think good because this is good conversation. You work closely with people every day and do it with a lot of care. Like if you're out here listening, I haven't seen the level of quality customer service from a young person. I'm being honest with you, and I wouldn't sugarcoat this that you give. Like yesterday, if you've been watching, yesterday, I'm watching Haley, and it's this guy comes in and he wants a screen protector on his phone. So I'm watching you. And she's doing it with just like precision, like you've done that, I could tell. But while she's doing that, she's not just silently doing it, she's having a conversation with this guy and getting to know him. It was like that you don't see that. You don't see that a lot. Oh, here we go. I get excited. You work closely with people every day and do it with a lot of care. How have your life experiences influenced the way you show up for others now? Because there are a lot of people who have been through what you've been through who it I was like, I was 30 when I started doing my own healing, and it took me till 30, but you're 25, and I'm sure you got growth to go, but answer that question.
SPEAKER_00:Um so I think part of it is um like you get back what you give, and and part of that is like But you grew up not getting learning that.
SPEAKER_04:You didn't learn that growing up. You learned up fucking garbage, like complete garbage.
SPEAKER_00:So how from them specifically, but like I said, you if you don't have those skills, you have to make connections with people that have it.
SPEAKER_04:And it's like I So who has it been along the way that's helped you with that?
SPEAKER_00:Honestly, like a lot. Like uh I I had my wrestling coach um in because I started wrestling in high school. I went for a coach? Yes. Um, and uh like he really I I after I got my parents like wrote away the rights and everything.
SPEAKER_04:Um how old were you when that happened?
SPEAKER_00:Uh 16. So after my brother got kicked out, I came home and then um I don't remember the situ I I I was kind of over it. I said I I'm gonna tell people, like if if you if you don't let TJ come back sorry, if you don't let my brother come back, I'm gonna um So you were done. Yes. I I just I couldn't take it anymore. And um I it turned into my stepdad dragging me down the hallway by my hair um and spitting on me and holding me up against the wall and saying like you're he kicked me out next, basically. Um and then um like the last where'd you go? I grabbed two I was he gave me 10 minutes to grab stuff um and the whole time berated me, telling me he couldn't wait till he saw me selling myself on the side of the road, like all of this. I grabbed two separate shoes. I remember I was so like in shock. I just two shoes that didn't match um in a trash bag and just kind of threw random stuff in. And I was just kind of wandering down the street. Like I again, I think I was kind of in shock. Um and she was 16.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_00:One of my other neighbors, um, I used to like play with her daughter when we were a kid. She kind of saw me walk, it was raining, so she saw me walk down the street, and then she said, Where are you? Like she thought I was going to the laundromat or something. Um I I said, I I think I just got kicked out. I don't remember. She brought me back to her house. Um let me take a shower. Um, she let me use because again, this was like right across the street. Um she let me use the phone to call a friend. Um, so I started just kind of like couch shopping, yeah, stuff like that. Um at that point, there's two kids that are homeless and not you know in school, so then the school kind of got involved.
SPEAKER_04:Um you in contact with your brother, or are you guys kind of doing your own thing?
SPEAKER_00:I I wasn't in contact with him at this point. He's kind of off. I didn't I was trying to like track him down, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um and then So the school gets involved.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yes, and then a different neighbor, I and again I think like the neighbors were very kind to me because like they heard all the screaming. They they knew they knew. Yeah. Um, I used to babysit for one of the other neighbors. Um, and she had after I'd been like couch surfing for a while, um, and like sometimes I would just like wander around and wait for school to start. Um uh she contacted me and was like, Hayley, like where are you? I I I asked your mom to like if you could babysit and she said that you were you left because you were doing drugs and like da-da-da, but that doesn't sound like you, and I was like, Yeah, it's really not. Um, and so I ended up uh with the school getting involved and like her and everything like that. Um I got placed with um them. Uh uh, she was able to sign as my temporary guardian. I mean at that point I was like 16 turning 17, and then I turned 18. And so it was so it was a neighbor. Yeah, two neighbors, actually.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, two neighbors that and this you this happens is they you said they've probably heard the screams, they've seen the looks, they've and so they had an opportunity to help and they did.
SPEAKER_00:And I I um very like I said, I think I got very lucky after that because there's I I wish I could be like I did everything by myself. Like I you know, but that's not the case. I always like by making these connections and like so and I I mean at that point, like uh, because they already had three kids, like they had I always I do remember feeling really bad because um the room was like pink and covered with like puppy pictures because they had to move like the youngest daughter into the other sister's room room for me. Wow, and like you're still in contact with um uh I uh like at the point, like you're 16 going like it wasn't like a parental figure, but like they really did.
SPEAKER_04:They helped out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um got me, made sure I had um this was in the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_04:Did your parents have any reactions to this?
SPEAKER_00:Uh not that they because I I think some I don't even think I've ever admitted this. Like I tell I say foster care because it's easier than like when it came to that conversation instead of just doing better or they just said you taker. Like gear, they just they didn't care, they didn't want to deal with it, they didn't want to and like CPS had been to our house multiple times. No, they didn't appoint that.
SPEAKER_04:They didn't want anyone getting involved. No, they didn't want an investigation to happen, they didn't want the truth to come out. Nope. And so they're just like, yeah, you take her.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, and so I think uh the people I was placed with, like, you know, I'd I'd I'd babysat for them for years.
SPEAKER_02:Um so they knew you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um and uh I I think I I was so numb and like I like there was times where I would stare at a wall, like I if like I'd gotten everything taken away. I remember like I would be able to like kind of stare at a point in the wall and just like do that for hours. And so afterwards, like from no feeling no emotions to like I felt every emotion after that, and that's when I started like fighting in school, and it was like I I was a really good kid, and then I was and because I one of my jobs was I got paid to work in the office at school, so I would like answer the phone, sort the mail. And it's kind of funny because like this gave me like I was I knew all the staff, but like you know, I would I I'd have to prep the substitutes. Um, I would because I would get I would work the morning shift, go to school, work the afternoon shift, and then I would walk to my other job, and that's what and so um I remember like them kind of working on like when this happened, like the office ladies that I worked with, kind of like like while I'm working, like filing, you know, stuff or and just kind of looking at me like, oh, and I was like it was super awkward. It was you know, like everyone knew what was going on because I've worked for the school and it was you know, the school knew about it. Um, and then uh but it gave me like so I remember the first time I actually got into a fight, um, I because I was friends with security guards, you know, stuff like that. Um, and then uh And it was never like, oh, you talk to him like my boyfriend, or you know, like it was always like I felt things were unjust. I I my reactions weren't okay, but like um I was already like at a boiling point. And so I would um like just react to like if I felt like a teacher was talking to like a certain type of kid differently than the other kid, or like you're bulling a girl that can't have a kid for self-protecting. Probably not in the most stable way, but it wasn't healthy. Like I definitely did throw a stool across an art room, but I felt like at the time my you know graduate high school?
SPEAKER_04:Yes, you did.
SPEAKER_00:And that was because a teacher, like my professor or my my wrestling coach, he he really like put ingrained in me. Like, I he even told me, like, I understand you're hurting, and like I you're like you're but he was like, if you keep punishing everyone around you, like you're no better than your parents.
SPEAKER_04:And who was that wrestling coach?
SPEAKER_00:Um Pine.
SPEAKER_04:Pine. Coach Pine What?
SPEAKER_02:Where was this?
SPEAKER_00:In Renton.
SPEAKER_02:Pine? Oh boy.
SPEAKER_00:You know him?
SPEAKER_02:Uh I know his son, uh Josh Pine.
SPEAKER_00:Probably.
SPEAKER_04:It's it's a pine. They're like legends in the wrestling world. I've got chills right now. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:He was like probably he actually I had to cut weight to be on the wrestling team. Um Kevin.
SPEAKER_02:Is it Kevin? Pine? Anyway, go on.
SPEAKER_00:I think so actually.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, go on.
SPEAKER_00:But I just knew him with Pine. He's bald. He used to have a ginger afro. I remember I called him a traitor because he didn't go in when he was in high school.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway. So Coach Pine was instrumental in you. You've said this a few times, and I'm gonna take a quick break to to make sure we're getting all this recording. That connection is what saved you along the way. Yes. A lot of connection with some healthy adults that were spattered in your life, all while you had these two adults who were just horrific. You out in the community and in your world, you had some adults here and there that helped you along the way. Yes. Ah, yeah, this is good. Okay. We're gonna ask one more question, and then we'll go into the two closing questions. This has been really, really good. I think that whoever listens to this, it's gonna give them a lot of hope if they're struggling themselves. And it's really inspiring for me as the old guy sitting here listening to you, young, the what you've been through, and how at even still a young age you're really thriving, and it's really inspiring. It really is. Okay. Being in a younger season of life, you're the ripe old age of 25. What's something about adulthood or personal growth that has surprised you so far?
SPEAKER_00:I think everything. Um, I mean, like I said, I feel like I had I was just kind of thrown into the world without and was just kind of like figured out, and that's been at 16. Yes. Like I said, I'm very grateful for like the adults that did, you know, like that. But like again, when you're abused from the age of four to sixteen, that's when your brain is developing. Yeah. That's like the most important time. And I'm still dealing with like I've worked really hard. Um and then wait, kind of sorry, can you repeat the question?
SPEAKER_04:What's oh sorry, being in a younger season of life, what's something about adulthood or personal growth that has surprised you so far?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay. So um like I was very much go, go, go, I think. Like I said, it just you kind of just survive, you keep going, you keep going, you keep going. Um and so once I kind of got to that where it's it's like when you don't you're in survival mode, and then when you're not, it's like this is where your body, like all of that damage that was done to your brain, it's like catching up to you. Um and so I didn't I didn't know, like I didn't have the resources of like how to to deal with any of that. And so it's like I had gone here and I was like, okay, like I'm in a c I got my first degree, like I have, you know, I'm going through school again. Um and then I I like I didn't know about therapy, I didn't know about like, you know, any of this stuff. Um and uh it it took a it took its toll. Um I I was struggling really hard with and I I still like I've had to work really hard to retrain it. But like when you're told like your entire life that like you are like you need to be punished, like you're a mistake, you're like, you know, um you're evil, you're this, you're that. Um at some point like your brain is just wired. That's your first it doesn't matter what you do, or like um, and so it was like during the day I would be able to function, but then as soon as it was like it I was alone, I I it was uh it was like a nightly spiral, or it was like it was just like it would catch up to you, like you're you're this, you're this, you're this. Um and I had to do that.
SPEAKER_02:How do you how do you combat that now? Um honestly what helps?
SPEAKER_00:Um like therapy. Um I do uh uh I do a lot of hiking. Okay. Um I try to move a lot, like um release a lot of serotonin.
SPEAKER_03:Your dog.
SPEAKER_00:My dog, yes. Actually, that's um I I've never slept this well. I've never had something like that has made me feel safe at night. And this is especially like his breed and his size, is why I fell in love with him when I and I think you feel safe. I think like he's the sweetest dog ever, but like you can tell he's also been through a lot. Like when I especially when I first got him, like if I moved too fast, he would flinch, you know, or something like that.
SPEAKER_04:And it's like having a so you you heal each other.
SPEAKER_00:I do genuinely feel like when I say like everything happens for a reason, like I I wish I could talk to him sometimes. Like, what happened to you? You know, but yeah, yeah, yeah. I I feel like like I can I've never been able nighttime has always been the hardest for me, and ever since I've gotten this dog, like I've been able to sleep way more than I used to be able to.
SPEAKER_01:That's good.
SPEAKER_00:It's just like he's always there monitoring, like I just feel safe, and I've never really felt like that before.
SPEAKER_04:So therapy, uh getting outside, moving your body, your dog, what else helps?
SPEAKER_00:Um making accomplishments, I think, like setting like not every goal I make I reached. I think like school has been an up and down battle. We'll get you there. I keep like I feel like I'm an identity crisis like every year. Um just like you know, as I learn more and grow.
SPEAKER_04:But but achieving things, doing things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like setting little goals of like like I just got promoted and that was really exciting for me.
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like um I I try to make like I'm gonna learn this new skill. I'm gonna especially when you're told like oh um part of it was like I didn't get diagnosed with um I had uh like CPTSD and ADHD, and um like there was some things I I didn't know I had. I had I actually got hospitalized after I just kind of like couldn't fight off the voices anymore. It was actually it's not funny, but it was kind of funny at like um you know, people's pond.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um I didn't know that you couldn't be there past 10, and so a cop had come to my door after I'd done something really stupid. And um I so I got taken to the hospital. Um didn't really plan for after. Um it was kind of one of those where it's like every time I reached like rock bottom where I'm like kind of, you know. Um I remember they were like taking pictures of like my arms and then like uh surgery. I remember like looking over and there was like a homeless man like sitting under the tree and on or on his bike. I was like, don't judge me. Like it was like I was not in the right frame of mind at all. I remember like the like I was trying to fight with the nurses for a bit, and they were like, if you don't cooperate, like you're gonna get send to a psych ward, and I was like, Okay, I'll be good. And then like I remember the nurse being like, This is a really cute sweater, it's like covered in blood. Like, I didn't really plan for it. Um, but I I had like I couldn't do it myself anymore of like everything that was going on in my mind, and but that night was when I got diagnosed with PTSD, didn't really know what CPTSD was, didn't know ADHD, didn't know I had this and that, and that's what started like my treatment. That's what it's like where I've been able to get these skills. Like, obviously, it's not I it's not like I wanted to do that, it was just more like like I didn't want to do that, I just couldn't I couldn't take it anymore, I couldn't fight it off anymore. It had been too long, like I just didn't have the energy for it anymore, and I just wanted it to stop. Um, but so like that's where I've I got a psychologist, and like I I try to keep my meds as low as possible to try to find like like obviously with my ADHD, like I I need to be able to function, but like she's really awesome at like knowing I don't want to be super reliant on medication and and like incorporating like more natural, like you know, stuff like that. And then I have a therapist that um I actually same thing, I I didn't have health insurance at the time, and uh friend knew this guy, uh, because he's based in Seattle, um, and was like, he he can see you for a little bit like through telehealth um until like you can get health insurance, you know. And that turned into him basically like I still see him. He he after a while, he was like, I don't want you to have to pay for this, I don't want this stuff to be something you have to budget. Like I I didn't feel like it was just uh I I've been through a lot of therapists, and this was the first one that like actually connected with. It was like I didn't feel like uh it was just a paycheck, you know, or just like try and like um check off a box. Yeah, like and somebody who had also like gone through some life skills, stuff like that. And so he actually like it helps you not feel crazy when he's explaining like your brain is reacting like this because it's releasing these types of um like you know chemicals and and and really like giving me like the science behind why my brain is doing what it's doing. Yeah, it makes you like when when he's like, oh I've seen this before this is happening because of this, it makes you not feel insane. And it makes you like it, it puts like I don't know, it makes you feel more normal. And like so that's helped a lot and and like con I'm still constantly navigating like uh emotions and and um like trying to find the balance of of not just like sorry, no, you're good, um ignoring or like advocating for yourself and and and not like letting things go and go and go until you finally like reach that point where it like you blow up and like really uh he's I I've never gotten so much like validation before of like he's said that I'm in the top three of his trauma cases, but I'm like not relying on you know yeah different things.
SPEAKER_04:So here's here's what I'm gonna say to you. This just hit my brain. Um my path to what you're you've experienced with this psychologist was just personally for me was educating myself, and it was through my degree about family systems and about emerging adulthood and about how our brain functions, right? That's always been really helpful for me as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and depression and anxiety. And I'm all I'm like you, I want to balance. Like I take anxiety medication, but a low dose, and I'm all about what you say. Get outside, move your feet, talk therapy, all of those things. Now, I'm 58 years old, and here's what I'm gonna say to you, Haley. I really shifted in my life in a lot of ways. Certainly at 30, between 30 and 40, I did a lot of good work, but for me it was really 40 to 45 that I really did a lot of powerful work, right? So there's my. You're I just want you to hear this because I if you're like me, you probably still struggle in our brain a little bit with like, I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not blah, blah, blah, because of the garbage you were told as a child. What I want to say to you is you're speaking on this podcast at 25 years old with the wisdom of a 40-year-old or a 50-year-old. Like, like the things that you're doing for yourself right now on a daily basis is powerful stuff. And and as best you can, and I I always try to be mindful of saying this because I I get where our brains can go, as best you can. I want you to own that for yourself. That you are doing good for yourself. And this goes into this next question that I I I want you to have the opportunity to tell our audience is that you you are very inspiring. Very, very inspiring. Like a guy that's worked in the service industry for a lot of years. I look at you and how you are with customers, I'm like, wow, that's really fucking cool. And you're only 25, right? And you have been through the trenches of the like you could write your own book, right? You you could, and maybe one day you'll do that to give another young girl some hope, right? But it's really, really powerful. And I want you to keep, you know, I'm I'm kind of in your life in a way that I want to keep pushing you to do more for yourself and to keep healing. And I'm not saying you're saying that, but wow.
SPEAKER_00:I I do want that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's like I'm I there's a lot that I feel like behind in like not understanding like how things work. I didn't even know that um a car has a water pump, learned that the other day, which would actually stem from a customer that I was hoping he like.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because you talk to people. Yeah, you get to know people, and isn't that a powerful thing? How we get to know things about the world by talking to people.
SPEAKER_00:But and people are if you give people like I think it's common for people who've been hurt to like cut off everybody. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:And it's like if And you're not doing that, and that's that's the thing though. You're you could do that and no one would fault you. That's that's and if she's listening, my my second, my third wife, we were together for 10 years, Stephanie. You remind me a little bit of her. She was like abused in the way that you were, and and she's had to go through a lot of healing. And for a long time she did that, close people off. And no one you don't fault her, but you're not doing that.
SPEAKER_00:I I've seen how it affects my siblings, and I I think I I make jokes a lot. I'm like, I never want to get married, like I never want to have kids, but I think that stems from a fear of that's all I've ever wanted is a family of my own. Yeah. To like start over.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and like I I don't I I think all the time like this can't be all that and I used to think this when I was younger, like this can't be all that I get. Like this can't be my life. This isn't this can't be the only thing I experience in my life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so like I I get disappointed all the time. I get hurt all the time. And I'm sure that there's times where I've hurt people, you know, like I'm not like sunshine and rainbows falling out of my ass 24-7. Like I'm not hearing you're there's times where like you know, I I just want to be safe and and sometimes like people don't like it when you when you stand up for yourself or when you set boundaries. Um and so like I I don't want this to be like this can't be all that it is. This this and so like I do I do have to send people off sometimes. Like I do have to okay, I've tried this.
SPEAKER_04:And that's okay.
SPEAKER_00:And I've had to learn that, but I can't like if I if I cut off all connections from here on out, that's all I experience. I don't get to experience like the person that told me about the water pump, he fixed it for me. I didn't even know it was going out. I was asking him a question about my blinker, and he was like, Turn your car off, this is about to explode. And like took it to clear, like, didn't charge me for the labor. I I tried to, you know, and like I've had customers that I've helped, and my tire blew up once. I was on the side of the road, and I said, Can you and your wife come help me? I don't know how to change a tire.
SPEAKER_03:Like Do you know how to change a tire now?
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_03:I can teach you. I don't it's a good skill to have.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I think he probably would have taught me, but then it was it's okay. But um, same thing, like the Roth or the customer that you met the other day, Belgerman. Like, uh I uh last year found out what his birthday was, and and like lost somebody, and so um Mitchell the store got for his birthday. Next my birthday came, he showed up with flowers and cards. He seems to be salmon sometimes. Like um there are people like that you can have good experiences with that, you know, sometimes it like fizzles out or like you don't see eye to eye, and it's like I I I can still have love for people and like keep them at a distance, but I don't I don't want my life to just be dark. Like I I I genuinely love laughing and like I I didn't get to really be a kid, so like you know, sometimes people I I I know a lot of people think that I'm like ditzy and stupid because of like all the jokes I make, or you know, like stuff like that. I know that's not true, so I don't need to like validate it.
SPEAKER_04:Well, here I'm gonna cut you off. So I'm gonna say a couple things. One, uh, you know, we we were at T-Mobile yesterday, our last Santa and Mrs. Claw. We look forward to that, and and you you bring light to the room. You you do. You need to know that you you bring a positivity and an energy to the room that is palpable. And from a from a guy who like I think I'm pretty funny, but you make me laugh. And that's that's a powerful tool to have in your tool belt when you can do that. And you are a connector of people. I'm gonna say it again. You are a connector of people, and you've brought that from your trauma of your past because you you you are flipping the script. Yeah, I know inside you want to flip the script, you don't want to be them. You are not them. I'm gonna say it again. You are not them. You have made a decision that you are not going to repeat that cycle of abuse from your past. Holy crap. So when the day comes, because it will come, when you find that guy and you get to create your own family, because and I'm saying this because I've been able to do it myself, my son's doing it, you're breaking generational cycles of abuse. Holy fuck. Like there's there's nothing more powerful than that. So we're gonna close this up. What's a message of hope or encouragement you would give to someone who's out there listening, who's trying to find their own footing in life?
SPEAKER_00:You just have to keep going. It's not gonna be like, like I said, I feel like I've hit rock bottom so many times, and like this is then, and then like you go a few months out, and I'm like, Oh, that's why this had to happen. Same with like when I got hospitalized, or when like you know, certain things have happened where it's like like if I would have ended it. There, I wouldn't have I didn't know I was gonna get my little brothers back. That's opened up a whole new world for me. It's part of like why I was having that, you know. Um it it's like I I I don't I I I still have a lot that I'm figuring out. I still have a lot that I'm learning, but like it's it it has worked out if you just give it time, if you just like like so keep going. Keep going. Like it you can't like I'm not where I want to be. I I I'm I I'm I'm still figuring out who I am to a degree. It's like I'm pretty I'm pretty much I'm pretty me. Like I I I'm pretty solid personality of like what Haley is, I think when you ask people, but like I'm still learning so much about what I like, who like who I am and and what was ingrained in me and like what I actually am. And uh I like nobody has it all figured out if you talk to it. And a part of that is what helps is like I I I do genuinely love talking to the like the older generation, the younger generation, we need each other. Like, yeah, they don't understand electronics, sometimes they can be outdated, but like they know how to cook, they know how to sew, they know how to you know build things, they they've been through what they're at our age, like they've been through heartbreak, they've been through like if you talk to these older generation, like they have all of the advice that you need. And yeah, sometimes people can be crotchety and rude, and you know, but also if you do genuinely speak to them, a lot of them have been through pain and you know, everything you they have had the life everybody goes through it, everybody has something, and like that that's if you talk to people, uh most of the professors have talked to you, like, oh yeah, I did change my degree so many times, or like, you know, I started here, or like we talked I was married this many times and like figured out eventually, or you know, like that you're not the only one, and you don't know that unless you have these conversations with people. And and so there's so many like people that have given me like when I feel down about like my timeline or haven't done it, I haven't done this in this amount of time, or like I've do it, like you know, it works out eventually. Yeah, it may not be right now, it may not be for another couple of years, like I've but it it like I said, there's so many times where I've been like this is like how am I gonna get out from this? Like, how am I gonna figure this out? Like, there's no up from here, and then and then up happened. I'm like, oh, that was dramatic. Like, figured it out, you know.
SPEAKER_04:I was worrying about something maybe I shouldn't be worried about. Yeah, yeah. That's a good message, and so you your message is is um if I go backwards, um, you don't have to have it all figured out. Things usually work out. Um keep talking to people, yes, because that's how we learn and grow. Um, I love that you said this, and this is why I want to have more young people on this podcast is we need each other. Oh my god, do we need each other? Like, I need you. I need, like I tell my students, I need you in the world. I need you're our future leaders of the world, right? And so we we need each other. All generations need each other. Um, and what was the first thing you said? I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00:Um, neither.
SPEAKER_04:They can listen. They'll listen. Okay, last question, and this one's for me. What's a question you've always wanted to ask me?
SPEAKER_00:And I guess uh like as somebody who is still trying to reach that point of like all these trials and tribulations have led to this. I guess like when did you when was your moment you were like I don't have to watch my back anymore? Like, I don't have to like wait for the like I I the ball to draw? Yeah, like when was the moment I guess where you're like, okay, like all the work I've put in, everything is like this is where it was supposed to lead me because I'm still waiting for that point where I'm supposed to be led.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you might not like this answer. Um I'm still not sure I'm there. Um while while I don't I don't worry that the world's you know that my whole world's gonna come crashing down. Um and I'm looking back because you and I have been through trauma. That trauma that I went through that really like shapes us as kids and goes in, it doesn't it completely ever go away, but it doesn't affect me like it used to. Um it doesn't affect me like it used to. It still crops up from time to time, but doing the things that I do on a daily basis, I guess I would say, really helps keep it at bay. And that the same things that you are doing now, I have done and I will continue to do if needed, you know, which is therapy and and getting outside, and I have my morning routine that I do every day because for me it's mornings. Yeah, I can wake up some mornings and I'm in my head, and it's those tapes that are saying, you're not good enough, you're not smart enough, you are what they said you were, which is fucking bullshit. That that can crop up, right? And I've created the my for me, it's my morning routine. Get up early, get out of bed, go walk the dog, get outside, and it shifts for me. And then I go, okay. It's surrounding myself with people that tell I have that sign right there, they can't see it, but you can, and it says, He believed he could, so he did. My sister gave me that when I became Dr. D. It's surrounding myself with people that believe in me even when I can't believe in myself. And I'm I'm sorry that my message is it doesn't completely go away. It doesn't ever completely, and this is what I want to say to parents if you're a parent out there, do your fucking healing. Because you right, you see us nodding. This shit affects you for your whole life when you're products of parents who have their own damage and they're not willing to do the healing. Oh my god, it's it's shitty. So now the positive thing though is like I have a good fucking life today. I have a good life, and it's because of what you've talked about, because of people. You said this so many times as a young 25-year-old woman, you've said it so many times, and it's so beautiful. You didn't do it alone. You haven't done it alone. I haven't achieved what I've achieved in isolation. It's because I've gotten out and I've gotten busy. I've stepped into scary things, I've gone to the counseling when it's talking about mental health, I've talked to the doctors, schooling, you know. It's like me that I'm a fucking college professor? What the fuck? Like I was in jail, you know, I was left, I was done. At 29, I was done. Well, guess what? The universe had other plans. So I'm I'm ranting at this point. That's it. We did it. This has been great. Okay. This is perfect. Thank you for joining us, everyone. Until next time.