The Call of the Frame | Claire Evans

A city can look familiar and still be disappearing in real time. We sit down with Claire Evans, a Fresno-based photographer who shoots film and builds living archives of the Central Valley by stepping into backyards, kitchens, skate parks, and neighborhoods that don’t always get the investment or attention they deserve.

We talk about Fresno as an agriculture-centered place with deep cultural diversity, and how urban sprawl can quietly push older communities to the margins. Claire reflects on why documenting what already exists matters, from stories tied to historic areas like Japantown to everyday scenes that become priceless once they’re gone. She also shares the personal side of documentary photography: how walking first pulled her toward a camera, why asking for a portrait never stops being scary, and how trust changes when you photograph people you actually know.

You’ll hear unforgettable moments from her work, including photographing her friend Kiwi in traditional Hmong clothing while she plays guitar, plus a visit to a Punjabi family farm where animals, memorabilia, and hospitality shaped the story. We also get into film photography workflow, why patience is part of the art, and why Claire feels most responsible documenting her own “turf” in the Central Valley.

If you care about community storytelling, local history, and photography as advocacy, this conversation will leave you seeing your hometown differently. Subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find these Fresno and Central Valley stories.

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Transcript

Welcome To The Mountain In Us

Taran Singh 0:03

Welcome to the mountain in us, where the journey gets its voice. I am Taran Singh. This season we take on new tales for deep-rooted reflections on our passions, paths, and purpose. Together, let's explore the thrills, ascents, and descents of our uncharted adventures. Hey everybody. Today my guest is Claire Evans, a photographer passionate about telling stories through her art. A Fresno native, she is a dedicated advocate for making Fresno vibrant, visible, and welcoming. Welcome. I'm so glad, Claire, you're here and look forward to our conversation, The Call of the Frame.

Clair 0:58

Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Taran Singh 1:02

Awesome. So

Fresno As Landscape And Food Basket

Taran Singh 1:03

Fresno is your place on this planet from the very first click. You know, for most of us Americans. Can you paint the picture of this valley and the abundance it brings to us?

Clair 1:16

Yeah, I grew up here, so sometimes it's kind of hard to paint a picture because it's just so normal to me. But yeah, Fresno is like it's in the Central Valley. I think it's the biggest city in the Central Valley, but it's home to a lot of agriculture. So there's ag surrounding the whole city, lots of fields with lots of big crops. Yeah, it's really hot.

Taran Singh 1:41

Yeah.

Clair 1:42

A lot of time super hot here.

Taran Singh 1:44

And the valley, right? The valley is sandwiched between the Yosemite, the valley, the mountains, right? So it has Yosemite towards the east and some of the lower San Andreas Mountains on the west, right? So that's where the valley is the valley, right? So it's like one of the biggest valleys on the planet, that's what I know.

Clair 2:04

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and everyone always likes to say like why people love Fresno a lot of time is because it's close to all the other things, you know. So not necessarily that they actually like Fresno, but that it's you know close to LA or San Francisco or you know, the mountains.

Taran Singh 2:21

So yeah, and the river Murced pretty much runs, I think, through the southern tip of the tip or at the southern or the more, I think northern tip of Fresno. But you did give us a hint about the agriculture. Can you, you know, when you drive around in Fresno, especially outskirts now, since it's expanding and eating up a lot of agriculture land. And what what kind of produce do you see? What kind of uh you know plantation of fruit trees and all of that that is around it for us, those who've never been to Fresno, especially I know in Feb when everything is white because of the almond blooms, right? So, what what kind of blooms do you see in your in your in your spring, especially? I'm so curious to know that and and how do you capture them?

Clair 3:07

Blooms in the spring, yeah. I mean, there's like the cherry blossoms, and um honestly, I'm not too sure about those. I know we have a lot of like almond trees and a lot of grapes. That's like a huge one. Oranges are big too, and then smaller crops, but yeah, springs. I think it's just those cherry blossoms. I I don't really know. I haven't seen much other than that.

Taran Singh 3:35

Yeah, no, and and you're right, there's so much to see in Fresno, raisins and whatnot. But the other thing that Fresno is is shaped up is that it is such a welcoming city to so many different communities, and you grew up here, right, in this ocean of diversity. Tell

Growth, Neglect, And Saving Stories

Taran Singh 3:52

us how you've seen that evolution of Fresno and its impact on you as a photographer because your stories are also not plain vanilla, it is so diverse stories that you pick up. Uh, so has that happened with the growth spur in Fresno? What did uh what transpired in Fresno and what transpired in you to capture some of these unique stories that we see on your feed all the time?

Clair 4:18

Yeah, I think I think you know, the more I photograph, the more I like refine why I shoot and what I want to document. And I think definitely like the growth and expansion, like with that, a lot of things get you know forgotten, or because of you know, like urban sprawling, you know, people are headed further north or south and like really pushing, pushing away from older parts of Fresno, and so those like neighborhoods and communities get neglected a lot. And so I think, yeah, like you were saying, like with it growing, I feel like it's really important to document, you know, what's already here, what's been here, who's been here, and the ways that people have, you know, survived in those environments where you know things are slowly being forgotten or abandoned.

Taran Singh 5:18

And you mentioned at one of those stories about Japantown that uh high-speed railway would have just crushed it, right? So can you give us a little bit about that too? Like how that was such a unique documentation opportunity, but also such a learning opportunity for you and for the rest of us to understand the history behind some of the things that have gone in the making of Fresno.

Clair 5:42

Yeah, I think I don't I mean, I'm not the best. I'm I don't have the most knowledge on that, but I just remember, you know, with Japantown, like that's one of our old oldest neighborhoods in Fresno. And they started doing the high speed rail and kind of cutting right through it. But that was really, you know, that's it's no fun to see those big infrastructures come in to these historical neighborhoods or buildings because it really disrupts the place and the people there.

Taran Singh 6:16

And you, you know, you as a photographer landed on doing what you're doing today, is you mentioned that walking the city was part and parcel of your life as in early early child, early growth period in Fresnos.

Walking, Asking, And Finding Subjects

Taran Singh 6:31

So what what what what got you to camera and and how does walking motivate you to click? Uh I want to learn a little more about the recipe of of what is what is powering Claire, and it looks like w walking is powering you.

Clair 6:47

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's definitely how it started off. I love walking and would walk a lot through the neighborhoods, and then I got a little point-and-shoot camera, and I just started taking pictures of stuff I would see on my walk, and then I got really addicted to it and I really liked it, and so then just progressed from there. But yeah, walking was definitely the start of like documenting, and then again, like as I've grown, it's not as much walking now as it is like connecting with coworkers or friends, or you know, friends of friends and more documenting their life and stuff. So, yeah.

Taran Singh 7:30

Yeah, and that evolution, I think I want to double-click on that evolution from going from point to point, point and click to a subject, and now you're going to individuals and and they are opening up to you. How was that journey? Was it what was what was it first for the first time doing it? Did you have the chills? How how did Claire approach the first subject? And and and if you can share, or like how did you find the first subject? Because that I think is very tough as as an artist to you know go from this cold mode to a hot mode now.

Clair 8:07

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely scary. I always tell people like it never gets easier. Like I'm always scared to ask for a photograph from someone. And I mean, even in the street, like again, when I was walking and I would do it, it was it was scary. But I think it felt less risky because I didn't know them or I didn't have a relationship with them. So if they said no, like it wasn't the biggest deal. Whereas now it feels more, you know, like there feels like there's more at risk because it's people that I know, or like it's family and stuff. So in that way, it's more vulnerable for me and for them, because you know, I don't want them to feel like they're obligated to because we know each other, or what if they don't like the photo after I take it? And so it's always a scary process to me, but I think I always go back to like if I don't ask, like I'll never know. So, like as long as you ask, and you know, you can humility and that uh yeah, I think that's all you can ask for, and I think um it's got me a lot of places just asking.

Taran Singh 9:21

So, yeah, I I definitely agree with you. Asking is is the key to opening up the doors, and you mentioned right that you take pictures, do you uh of the families that you are or or people that you figured out? Do you go do you do you have a fully planned story in mind beforehand? Do you do your research prior to the the families or or whoever your subject is, or you say okay, or you're more you know in the moment, hey, I'm just going to be there and click some pictures and we'll figure out the story as it happens. How how or do you do both?

Clair 9:57

I think it's much more wherever the wind takes me. So there's not a lot of planning involved. And I think this is the part that is always hard to like explain to people because you know, yeah, it's just I don't even know how to nothing's quite planned other than maybe like you know, I know my coworkers are inviting me to a barbecue at their place. So in my mind, I'm already like, okay, I'm definitely gonna bring my camera. I know I'm gonna bring my camera. Um, so things like that more, or um, yeah, I think that's it's or you know, like I documented my brothers um on like Thanksgiving because I knew I was gonna see them. So it is I guess it's it's way less it's the the stories, I mean they're all there, and then you document it, and then I think it's much more of a reflective process for me to see like what common themes I have in all of my work, or if I look back. So yeah, I think it's definitely more reflective when I decide to put a body of work together because I'm not a I'm not a planner, that's for sure. I'm trying. But it's definitely wherever wherever the wind takes me, I'm going.

Taran Singh 11:22

Yeah. Oh that's a that's a good way to put it. And in terms of, you know, do as you look at the subjects that you have, you know, photographed over a period of time, uh, was there any moment that you specially remember, hey Taran, this is something that really happened, and I didn't know uh that this was something that I would be ever a witness to, and it was such a great experience for me. I'm I'm sure there must be some stories that you have picked up uh that are both funny and scary or reflective and like out of this world because your pictures have some of the pictures that that I've seen and and on your feet, they are they're full of life, but they're also full of randomness. Like they didn't happen because you planned it. You just clicked a picture because you were there. And I want to know what you know, like are there stories in your mind about those some of those times where you have had you know great opportunity not just to click, but also remember some great stories along.

Clair 12:25

I

Unexpected Portraits That Stay With You

Clair 12:26

think one of my one story that I the first one that pops up to mind was my friend Kiwi. I had documented her a few times at the skate park with some of my friends, and you know, she skates and stuff. And then I remember telling her, you know, like, oh, I'm documenting another friend in her like traditional wear. And then Kiwi was like, Oh, like you should come document me in my traditional traditional like mom wear. And she's mom's, and so I was like, Okay, cool. So she invited me over to her house, and she went, we went into the garage and she picked out you know, an outfit, and then we went back into her bedroom and she put it on, and I think that was like a really beautiful moment, and I didn't know what I was necessarily like showing up to, like, you know, I just showed up to her house and knew that she would have traditional long wear on, but I wasn't sure. And then it's really beautiful too. She started playing her guitar um because she's also part of a few bands, and I think what was really cool in that moment was to document her in her traditional wear, but also doing the things that she loves that's like not within her culture, or things that she said is just kind of like frowned upon. So I think that crossover was beautiful, and you know, it was a sweet moment. I was glad I was able to document it, and she has that photo now.

Taran Singh 14:01

And yeah, I know, and Hmong, you know, a culture, especially of Southeast Asia, and and having somebody in Fresno that knows traditionally how to dress up in that and can skateboard and can also play the guitar as part of a brand, right? That is a unique, unique person and uh unique personality carrying so much culture and so much history along with it. Uh, it must be good. And for audience, you know, we we just uh you know, we should all have the notes for her Instagram, but we should check out that story and on how I love how my son does skateboarding, so you know I love skateboarders. Yeah, I suck. Yes, she's so cool. Yeah, no, great to hear. And you know, the other thing that I've noticed in your uh photograph is that there is both the intensity, but there is a pause of human resilience that you do, especially the picture that got me to you when I was looking at your friend's sick family that you picked photographed, and and the amount of things like you had a you had a picture with a goat and the family farmed, and and I like how how you club the human life with all the things around it. Uh, and is that by design or it just just happened, right? Uh that you see a family and you see how they interact with the environment and just shoot it. Um talk to me about what happened that day when you went to that family and and give us a little bit of inside information, if I have to say that the TMG scoop on the family. Yeah, yeah.

Clair 15:38

No, their son, and their son is his very 2026 internet connection. But, anyways, I followed the son on Instagram and he was posting some of the animals from the farm. And I was like, Hey, can I take some pictures? Like, can I come over and take some photos? And he was like, Yeah, absolutely. And then I knew his parents were around too, so then I asked, Can I also take some pictures of your parents there? And he was like, Oh my god, they love it. Um, so I was like, Okay, cool. And I show up. Um, and it's one of those things I really love showing up in environments where I don't know what's going on, I don't know what to expect, but it also makes me really um scared. I'm also like, I don't know what I'm getting myself into. Um, but I guess I'm addicted to that feeling um in some sense. And so yeah, I showed up and the parents were so sweet, and they just gave me a whole little tour of all the animals and stuff. And then I was like, can we go inside? I want to check it out. And they're like, Yeah, for sure. And there was that kind of just like all this memorabilia um on that right in the kitchen, and I just I saw it and I knew I was like, oh, that's where that's I want a picture of them right there. So yeah, we made that happen. But yeah, while they were showing me all the animals and stuff, you know, I shot them with you know, the goats and the horses and stuff.

Taran Singh 17:08

So yeah. Uh but I bet when you go to a Punjabi family like this, uh they they're not going to turn you around without food. So I'm you must have had some memorable food experiences across your visits.

Clair 17:22

Yeah, they were so sweet. Yeah. Mom was gonna go pray, so she she left pretty fast after, but yeah, they were so sweet. We we sat around and talked for a little bit longer, and then I had to go pretty quick, but uh yeah, they were very kind.

Taran Singh 17:38

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I think it's a good segue into my other question, right?

Bias, Belonging, And Community Contrast

Taran Singh 17:43

As as you look up yourself, Claire, and as and we as human too, right? Our acceptance level usually as we grow as humans starts to harden. Uh, but I bet in your in the way you work and the way you're finding people, when you reflect back at your own acceptance level and and just understanding the bigger world, uh, what change has transpired in you and and and the advocacy that you do for Fresno? Um, what do you see right in yourself as you look back? And what do you see that you're going to be adding as into your work of the work as you grow um into the space of expression with us?

Clair 18:24

Yeah, I think yeah, I think I just have always enjoyed seeing where I can go and who I can interact with. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I I guess I'm like an opportunist in that way. Like if people invite me to things and maybe I don't know who's gonna be there, what's going on. Um, I will usually say yes. Um just to see what's going on and stuff. And I think I think again, just having so much pride being here and just how diverse and how strong people are here. And it to me it's really beautiful. Um so yeah, I and again for me, I think my own positionality, like I just feel I just always feel incredibly honored and humbled that people allow me into their spaces and trust me, um, to document them because I think it's a really vulnerable thing. Um and like most photographers, like we don't really like being documented that much. But I think for me, yeah, I don't take it lightly when people allow me into those spaces because it's like I'm just getting a little piece of their world and um they're sharing it with me. So I think it's just yeah, it's just incredibly humbling and beautiful that I've been able to do that.

Taran Singh 19:50

Yeah. I'm I'm also assuming, right, as you're doing this, that you know, a sense of gratitude already is with the families, but when people are looking at your picture, especially in you know, in the places where you have exhibited that, there is a sense of bonding that is naturally happening within the broader community of Fresno, that you are connecting things where while the world is, you know, a sense of division already exists in the air in in the present time, but you are you're doing the other way around. You are saying, hey, that sense of division is not the true win. We are all connected through our stories. Uh, do you feel that uh uh when you talk to your uh you know folks that that you have photographed and people when you meet other people, uh, how do they compliment for your work that you do?

Clair 20:41

Yeah, I mean, again, I think it's always in the back of my brain, like just how diverse it is here. And so, you know, I kind of set aside, you know, if I do have any biases, you know, I try and set them aside as much as possible. And and yeah, I think I think sometimes it's kind of comedic to like show the you know differences here in Fresno. Um like I've photographed some Mormon kids in the neighborhood, you know, and they go on their bikes and they preach, and um that's not that's not anything that I would necessarily support, you know, but I think I was like, well, they're here, they're in my neighborhood. So, you know, like and it's part of it's it is part of the culture here. And so for me to be able to like set it aside when it maybe does possibly rub me the wrong way. But I think it's really good because I think again, like the bigger picture is I want people to be able to look through my work and see how yeah, diverse it is and you know the contrast of people that live here is I think can be pretty. Funny sometimes.

Taran Singh 22:01

Yeah, like it is it is a cities of cities, and and a mini world resides in Fresno in many ways, right? They're poly. So many different communities. And that's I think the beauty of America in many ways, but Central Valley, especially, they're both you know, such a welcome, welcoming place for the blue, blue worker, blue class workers, but agriculture workers, right? So a lot of new immigrants make it here. And you know, in case of even sick immigrants that have come in the last 50, 60 years, a lot of them who do agriculture are in Central Valley. But I want to focus a little bit about on you now, just you know, as if you were to capture your own story one day of a day, I say, okay, somebody is photographing Claire, what would that day look like? How does paint us a picture of Claire? Like, how does she infuse uh her life? What goes on? Are you a coffee drinker or a tea drinker? What kind of pets you have? What's your go-to to shake off some of the inertia uh that builds up? And you know, give us give us a little bit about your life and how you go about doing things you do.

Clair 23:13

Oh, yes. Well, um, I'm not a morning person. I wish I was. Um yeah, I feel so I sleep in. That's my day. I do love coffee. Yeah, I what's a day in life? Yeah. I've been biking a lot more, so less walking and more biking. But yeah, day in life, yeah, going to work, trying to figure out what else I want to document. I think again, it's I'm in this weird phase in my process where I'm I am reaching out more to people, or it's less that I'm stumbling upon someone walking, but now I want to be in, you know, people's homes or backyards. So right now I'm really trying to figure out what that looks like to like you know, reach out in those ways. But uh yeah, to unwind, uh I love to have a beer with friends. Um that's my favorite. I love patios. So anyone that's got a little patio, that's my it's my favorite place to be with friends.

Taran Singh 24:27

So awesome.

Staying Loyal To The Central Valley

Taran Singh 24:29

Do you do are you thinking of venturing out beyond Fresno for your photography uh or or story capture? Are you are you thinking going beyond Fresno someday, or are you gonna stick to Fresno for a while?

Clair 24:44

Oh yeah. I right now I really have so much pride and inspiration from the Central Valley. Um, I've been able to travel a little bit with my work, like via group exhibitions or something, and I just feel like it's always funny. I never bring my camera like outside of the valley, really. Um, like I was in Sacramento a few weekends ago for a group show I was a part of, and I didn't bring my camera, and uh all the photographers, you know, they all kind of freaked out on me. They were like, What? Like, you didn't bring a camera? And I was like, Yeah, I mean, I think I just tell people like it's not my turf. I don't know what's happening, like I don't have a pulse on Sacramento, I don't know what's going on, and so like that's not home, and so I kind of don't want to document it for those reasons, and so I feel really I only want to I want all my photos to be from the Central Valley right now, but you know, never say never. I maybe one day, yeah, I'll want to document other places, but I think for now, um, I just have so much love here, and there's so much here that I have like yet to see. Um, so I think it just feels unending, unending here. So yeah.

Taran Singh 26:13

Oh, that's that's good to hear. Talking about cameras, right? And I know this we live in the world of iPhones, and and but do you have a preference? What do you shoot with and and how did you get uh comfortable with shooting with that?

Clair 26:28

Or I mostly shoot with film. Well, I've only ever shot with film. Um and it was a lot of trial and error. The community taught me a lot. There's like a good little group here in the Central Valley, Central Valley called the I think Central Valley Camera Club. I think that's what they're called. Um, but they're all super sweet. Anytime I have a question or anytime I've had some sort of hiccup, um, I know I can like call one of them and they'll help me out with my gear. Um so I'm not I always say, yeah, I'm not uh I don't know my gear that well. I know what I want to see, I know what I want to document. But I think when it comes to when it comes to the gear, that's why I feel like I'm 65 years old and I'm not sure how to use it. But I find my way. Um, but I just you know, for all the gear heads out there, they probably would, you know, die in their dummy and how I how I use yeah.

Taran Singh 27:36

Yeah, no, that's good to hear that the community is there and film is also right. There's a there is an art to it, but also the processing, right? You have to process the film, right? And that is something, you know, you have to have community around it so you can do you do it at your home or do you have do you go through somebody to process your film?

Clair 27:56

Uh to process it, I usually go um to someone else. Yeah, I'll usually ship it um to another lab. Yeah, but other than that, yeah. Um yeah.

Taran Singh 28:08

And when you probably share the prints with your clients, right the feeling of holding something that was not captured, they could be they probably never see what you click, right? Unless you're clicking with an iPhone, but the real things only come out when you show them. So that the lapse between doing and I think there's a probably a sense of satisfaction when when you get the prints in hand. Oh, this was it, right? Because uh, I think the world we live in we where we want instant gratification, yeah. The time period for this to pick probably adds more to the flavor of your capture.

Clair 28:44

Yeah, and it definitely it's a good practice for me because I'm also very much in that world of instant gratification. And so it's a good practice for me to be patient and you know, you ship off your film and you gotta wait like a week or two. Um, so it's it's good for me. That's definitely yeah, good cause.

Taran Singh 29:06

Yeah, and every click is also not the cost is a big thing, but every click you're doing on a purpose, right? You're not just clicking randomly all the time, right? You you define the purpose. Awesome. Um

Advocacy, Housing, And Creative Advice

Taran Singh 29:20

one last question, and is and I will, you know, I want to make sure that you get the last words, is that as you picked this on the fly, right? And as as you were growing up, and when you look back to your days in Fresno and walking, you said was one of the things, right? And and the gift that you got in the art, what art has done to you and how you're capturing life in terms of people and whatnot, like you do today, has the evolution of this as you look around in the world we live today and the advocacy you do, you would say, Taran, if it was not for the camera, I won't be advocating for Fresno as much because I would live in my digital eco chamber. Is that something that you feel that you know more and more the the expression of art, uh, especially with local communities, makes you go around and advocate for the things that uh that Fresno is all about, right? And you you mentioned that like how housing has erupted as a major point of uh contention at in Fresno because people are moving outwards and and there is less land, and people people are not thinking authentically what would Fresno need, but they're just talking about things that what others need in Fresno rather than what Fresno natively needs for its own growth and on its own history.

Clair 30:47

And I think there's a lot of local government that is pushing a lot of bad policies and pushing for you know further expansion and money for these new developments instead of investing in the neighborhoods that are already here. But also, you have a lot of people in those neighborhoods that are ready and willing to fight for the neighborhoods and the community, so it just depends on who you're talking to and what they see of it. But and you know, I don't I don't feel like I have the best pulse on everything. Yeah, but I think just being seeing both sides for sure.

Taran Singh 31:26

Yeah. Having high and just seeing, you know, you involved in the city is kudos to you. Um, you know, I just like people, those who live in the city and and advocate for their own local environment. Uh but it is funny that there are two sick gentlemen standing for city council for the first time in Fresno, and I think two different districts, uh, which would be interesting because that's the day so I'm closely watching to see what happens.

Clair 31:50

Um and that's I know, and one of them he's uh he's in my district too, which I think is really cool. Yeah, I think he's amazing. Yeah, I'm blanking on his name. Um but yeah, I think it's really awesome too. I I met him the other day at my work, but yeah, no, good to hear, good to hear.

Taran Singh 32:10

And I think my last question is not a question, but I think anything that you want to share with our audience, those who are picking up their creative journeys or are doubtful of their journeys when they click, you know, for when they're starting a uh their own artist journey and finding their own space and rhythm and an expression, right? Any any words for them, any anything that you want to share?

Clair 32:38

Do what you love. I know it sounds cheesy, but if you love it, yeah, I would say play with it and and mess around and and try different things and see what sticks and um yeah. Yeah, I feel like photography is pretty addictive for me, and so you can find something that you love that much and are obsessed with. Yeah, yeah, no, this is this was do it because you love it, not because of any other reason. I think that's the best way to do it.

Taran Singh 33:16

Yeah, there is there is always a frame waiting for you. You just have to figure out which frame is that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, this was awesome. You you know, thank you, Claire, for making time for us and and having this beautiful conversation. And and I I'm gonna add all your Instagram feed and website information along the way, but you're I love looking at the pictures that you post, it's a flavor that is real and and something that we all value. So keep please keep doing what you're doing and all the best. And anytime you step out of Fresno and decide Bayeria, I'm I'm waiting on my patio for you.

Clair 33:55

Okay, awesome, awesome, I love it.

Taran Singh 33:58

Yeah, thank you very much.

Clair 33:59

Yeah, thank you.

Taran Singh 34:04

Thank you for joining us on the Conversation Trails of the Mountain in Us podcast. Each episode here is crafted with love, adventure, and reflection. We hope you have enjoyed this one and we welcome your thoughts on it. And if you want to be on the show, feel free to reach out.