Clay Stafford and David Baldacci on Writing Series vs Standalones

In this insightful interview, #1 bestselling author David Baldacci sits down with Clay Stafford to discuss the key differences between writing a book series and a standalone novel, and how writers can build a sustainable, long-term career in fiction.

Baldacci shares practical advice on letting the story guide your decisions, staying passionate about your characters, and trusting your instincts instead of writing to market pressure. The conversation explores creative flexibility, character longevity, story evolution, and how professional authors decide whether a story has more “juice” left for future books.

Transcript

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Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, and welcome to the Clay Stafford Writers Podcast: Craft, Creativity, Career, and Community. I'm Clay Stafford, author, filmmaker, educator, and lifelong lover of stories. This podcast is all about empowering you, the writer, to navigate the creative journey with purpose and passion. Here we'll explore the essential elements that make a writer's life not just productive, but fulfilling. We'll dive into the art of storytelling, uncover strategies to sharpen your craft, and discuss what it takes to build a sustainable and meaningful creative career. We'll also celebrate the importance of community, because no writer should have to go it alone. In each episode, I'll share insights from my own experiences and bring you conversations with incredible guests from across the creative spectrum. Writers, industry professionals, and thought leaders to understand the joys and challenges of this path. Whether you're just starting out or looking to level up, this podcast is your companion for inspiration, practical advice, and connection. Together we'll unpack the craft, nurture creativity, and build the career you've always dreamed of, all while creating a life filled with purpose and stories that matter. So grab your notebook, settle in, and let's get started. Welcome to Clay Stafford's Writers Podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Today's guest is one of the most successful storytellers working today. David Baldacci is an international best-selling author whose novels have sold millions of copies worldwide and been translated into more than 45 languages. Over the course of his remarkable career, he's written more than 50 novels, including beloved series featuring characters like Amos Decker, Will Robbie King and Maxwell, and Alliance Archer, while also creating powerful standalone thrillers that have captivated readers for decades. But what makes this conversation especially valuable is not just David's success, it's the way he thinks about storytelling. In this episode, we're going to talk about the difference between writing standalones and series fiction, how characters evolve over time, why flexibility matters more than rigid outlining, and how to know whether a story truly has enough life for another book. David shares his insight into revision plotting, dialogue, pacing, and what he believes writers often get wrong when trying to overcomplicate story structure. And maybe most importantly, he talks honestly about the emotional reality of building a writing career, the rejections, the uncertainty, and the reason writers have to love storytelling itself if they want to survive the journey. Whether you're writing your first novel or your 50th, there's something here that will challenge you to think deeper about craft and career. So settle in and enjoy my conversation with David Baldacci.

Interview

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Do you start out thinking when you begin that it's going to be a series or a standalone?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

No, I think you really have to wait um until you get towards towards the end and realize after yourself, was there any juice left in these characters or any unanswered questions? They have any more potential that I haven't explored yet. And if the answers to those questions is yes, then you might want to think about making them a series. I've written books where I knew sort of going in that there was going to be you know a special story about this character and there wasn't going to be an opportunity to bring them back. And lo and behold, get to the end near the end of the book and realize that I was wrong of my initial assumption. Um I think you have to be flexible. I don't think you should go in with any preconceived notion that's going to be a series or not a series. Let the story flow and then see what you feel like as you get towards the end. You want to spend more time with these characters, you know, because you really have to bring the passion again and the interest again. And if it's not there inside you, it's probably not going to end up on the pages either. So I always just sort of let the story come out and then, you know, check to see if I want to bring them back or not. If I feel like I have something else to say about them.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Have you ever written a standalone? And then, like your publisher says, I'd like to have a series out of this.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah, but that, you know, don't let your publisher dictate your writing career. You know, you you have to, it has to be there. You know, it the passion has to be there, the interest has to be there. If not, you're gonna they're gonna say, hey, this is great, everybody loved it, bring him back, and and you not that interested in it. You're gonna write a hundred pages and you're gonna run out of gas and you're gonna be tissed off and your publisher's gonna be mad, everybody's gonna be mad. So let your own sort of gut dictate where you want to go with stuff. Um, and the biggest gut instinct for me is am I interested in the material? Am I interested in seeing those characters again? Do I have ideas that make sense for them to move that character forward to evolve the character more? If not, then are you going to be doing? And a lot of writers do this very successfully, you're gonna be writing the same story and just changing some of the names of the peripheral characters, and you're just gonna have the same character in there doing the same thing they do in every book. And if if you want to do that, that's terrific. And if you want to build a career out of that, for me, that would get stale pretty quickly. Um, I've been in this business a long time. I've written over 50 books, and the one thing I always try to do is get myself out of my comfort zone pretty well with every project. And even if I'm bringing a character back, I try to put them into new territories with new partners doing new things, uh, because I do not want to repeat myself.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

So is that something that autonomy that you're talking about, is that something that every writer ought to have? Or do you think like new writers are are more susceptible to being directed in in some sort of direction?

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Oh, I think that I you can be very susceptible to that because look, if you've got a book under your belt and it's done well and you're all excited and you have trusted advisors around you, and that's I'm not saying anything's wrong with it. I I have a great agent, I have great publishers, you know, around the world, and I listen to them, but and for a lot of different things, marketing and business points and and things and sales and you know what they would like me to do on tour, and that's great. And yes, they could have input into whether they think this character is great, it might be great in another book. But the answer you have to ask yourself, the questions you have to ask ask yourself, and the answer is, is it there for me? You know, if I'm if I'm only gonna bring this character back because my publisher or my agent or the readers want me to, but the passion and fascination with the character is not there, it's not gonna be a good book, but nobody's gonna be happy with the result. Um, but if the the the great the greatest problem they have is that the agent loves it, the publisher loves it, the readers love it, and you do too. And you want to bring it back again, you have all the same level of energy that you had with the first one. That's the that's a terrific opportunity for you. But I just think that buck stops with the writer because who's gonna be writing the book? Not the publisher, not the agent, not the readers out there. You have to sit down every day and deal with this character. And if you're dealing with the character because somebody else told you would be a great idea, I don't know how that's gonna turn out.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Well, I get a lot of when we I, you know, I've I founded Killer Nashville, which is a writer's conference, and um they um a lot of the people who come to our conference say, I have I've got an idea for a trilogy, and I'm going to write this trilogy. Is that really the best way for a writer to approach it? Because I keep thinking, and this is just me, I want to hear your view, but I keep thinking they may the first book may flop, and so two and three are not. So the trilogy's uh, you know, over. So what what what's what's your perspective?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

I might for if you go into a preconceived notion about how many books is going to be in a series, you're either going to drastically undercount it or overcount it. Yeah, that's just the way it is. Until you get into the pages and to the characters, it may sound like a terrific storyline and it may sound like a character you want to spend three, four, five, six books with. But until you get into the trenches with that character writing the pages, that's why I tell people if you want to write from an outline, that's fine. I mean, I don't write from outlines. I don't I don't outline everything in the book because there are no surprises left for me. Plus, there are two ways to learn how to drive a 411 car. You can read a book about how to drive one, or you can drive one. And let me tell you, the experiences are vastly different. So you can write an outline where everything seems neat and organized, and they go into each plot, the always thumbtails on the next plot, and everything comes out great in the end. And then you get into the messy, dirty, chaotic, fractious world of actually writing the novel, and you realize that it has no elements that the outline had, because it just didn't work once you get into the trenches of actually putting it all together. And you may get in 10 pages in and go, you know, this character I thought was going to be a peripheral character, I'm actually more taken with him or her than I was with the character I thought was going to lead the merit. Then what do you do? Do you listen to your outline or do you listen to what your gut is telling you after spending some time with these characters? So the same thing with, you know, the number of books in a series. Forget about that. Writing a book is hard enough without thinking about I have two more up for this and then I'm done. Well, if you get to the third one and you have a lot left to explore in that character, you're just gonna stop. Latitude and flexibility are your friends, you know, being static, being being preconceived, uh, being inflexible are your enemies when it comes to writing, and much in life, actually.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

So, in terms of uh uh writing a series, when it when you decide I'm gonna do another book, how does that uh affect in terms of the long-term series uh plot bible or whatever you want to whatever you want to call it? How how do you how do you organize all of that?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

So I'll give you an example. Let's talk through the camel club. I did five Camel Club talks, they're an ensemble cast of because we're these conspiracy theorists that have a little bit of age on them, a little bit of experience, they're all like in their 50s and 60s. And the first book was entitled Camel Club, and they're based in Washington, D.C. And they stumble upon these conspiracies and they have to bring skills that they've learned over their lives to bear on this to try to, you know, bring out the truth and make sure people are held accountable. So I finished the first book, but the first thing I did in that book, I built five characters into that book, plus a secret service agent and a couple of other peripheral characters who actually had some substance and weight. So I have five sort of fascinating backstories that I could then bleed into future books. I could explore, you know, it's almost like you see some series like Bridgerton. Bridgerton, they the first the first season was totally focused on the Duke and the Duchess, and the second season was on the younger, the oldest brother, the eldest brother, and the third season is gonna be on someone else. You can do it that way. We sort of highlight a new character of an ensemble group in future books. I also like to, if I have one main character like an Amos Decker or Will Robey, I give them a lot of baggage in their own personal background that I then can exploit later in future books. You know, Amos Decker suffers from hyperpymesia, perpetu recall, and the senesthesia because he had a he had a brain trauma. He was uh hit on the football field and almost died from the blow to the head. And it changed the way his brain operates. So he has a lot of personal demons. And in every book, I what I what I try to be with with uh Decker is I show that his brain is constantly transforming itself because of the brain trouble. So every book he has to deal with something new happening in his own mind and his own personality, which continues to change on him. If you can imagine how difficult and frustrating that could be. Plus, I have new elements about how his mind works to come out in every novel. Um, and I had a lot of personal baggage in his life, what happened to his family, what happened to his partner, his old partner. So if you're going to start up a book and you want it to, and you really want it to be a series, you have to sort of build up that stuff, build up your powder in that first novel. It could be through backstories of the one character or multiple characters that you're going to exploit in future books, or it could be something about a physical characteristic, an intellectual characteristic, or the people that he will meet in an ongoing basis because of the work that he does, and they can be exploited in the future books. Build it in, build your powder up in the first book and let the let the power off, but do it judiciously. You don't want to blow everything up in the first novel. You know, you need to turn the tap on and turn it off. But be thinking about those things. And, you know, I call them Easter eggs sometimes. You'd lay Easter eggs throughout a series of books, and they'll only you know be resolved in future books. That's the difference between writing a standalone and writing a series. You sort of plant some things, you foreshadow some things in earlier books, and you know you can take advantage of them later books.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

In terms of um uh uh developing all of this baggage that comes with them, is that something that comes organically, or do you sit and just kind of plot out the baggage this character is going to have?

SPEAKER_01 12:58

You can do it both ways, and I've done I've certainly done it both ways. With with Decker, um I'll give you two examples with Decker and with uh uh Will Robey. Um Decker, the thing fascinated me about Duck River Price that when you suffer a traumatic brain injury, your brain can change dramatically. Um, in both ways that you would think would happen to you, that your mental processes will be debilitated, but in some ways, uh your mental processes can be facilitated and they can grow ever stronger. The brain is an interesting organ, and part of it is damaged. Um, its function is to survive as best it can. So when it does, it often rewires itself. The brain is just a bunch of electrical concurrents, it rewires itself around damaged areas, and when it does that, it accesses area of the brain. But even today in 2023, most scientists have no idea how the brain works. It's just it's too much to understand. And it reaches and accesses certain parts of the brain, like memory, that most of us never take full advantage of. So I knew with Decker that would give me two things that I could really think about. Forget all the other layers of baggage that I talked about, two things that I could exploit with Becker. One, a phenomenal memory. And he was going to be a detective. So you can imagine what a memory like that would allow him to do. Even go into an event, into a crime scene, and see everything layer upon layer upon layer. Any inconsistency, either from forensics or from witness statements or from things he's just observed. And he lays it's like laying layer over top of layer, and all of a sudden here are inconsistencies because he remembers everything and forgets nothing. So that would give him both a fascinating sort of personal backstory. Um, because fascinating that we all have things we'd rather forget. The bad things that happened to us, we'd like to forget them. He never can. So that gives you a little bit of reader sympathy for him. But two, it just makes it given an incredibly powerful tool as a detector. So sometimes you only need one or two books uh like that. I don't, I'm not, I'm not saying going out and create 20 different baggage pots for different characters. That can be just too much, but one or two can take you a long way if you fully exploit that.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

So you you talk a lot about character. Which is do you have something that comes first for you, the character or the plot?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I've done it both ways. And I guess again, I I emphasize flexibility. Um, I wrote a book years ago called The Winter because I was fascinated with the book. When I was in law school, I wrote a paper about lotteries. When lotteries first were starting coming back into vogue in the 70s and 80s, they had been banned for a hundred years because they were all corrupt. Um, and then they started coming back again. And back then, um, sort of truth and advertising uh laws didn't apply to the states. So, you know, a state lottery could say, everybody wins, come on and play. You know, it didn't have to be like Burger King, you know, the odds of winning are one in 12 trillion, you know, we the states didn't apply. And I might argue that laws, the truth and advertisement laws should apply to states, and eventually it did, not because of what I did, but people just got common sense. So I was fascinated with lotteries, and if you look at every demographic and every statistic, the highest-selling lottery sites are in the poorest sections of America, and the lowest selling lottery sites are on the most affluent areas of America. It makes kind of perfect sense, right? And that's just that's an old statement on the wealth and balance in this country than anything else. So I wanted to write a story about the lottery, and I came to the way scientifically how someone could actually rig the lottery. And then I inhabited the characters, right? In other books like Amos Decker or King and Maxwell, I came up with the characters first and then invented plots and storylines that would allow those characters to thrive and flourish and be challenged.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

So when you when you're creating a new character, what's what's your process for that?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I really am much like let's see how it goes. Let's well, I don't I don't sit down and do character personalities with 77 different, you know, Indysia of what this character should be, because one, it's overkill. And two, you're never gonna remember it all. You're gonna have to keep referring back to this list checklist of stuff, and you're gonna realize that you know, 93% of this, I don't even need or want in this person. Let me just wake this person up at the start of the day and walk them through what I want him to do. Let's see what he does, let's see how this this stuff ticks. And then you start sort of, you know, you got this blob of clay, you spend a little time with it, and then you start shipping some stuff off here. And let's let then you make this a little more familiar to people. And let me, you know, see how the world that I've created for him and I'm putting him through or her through is shaping him or her. And then we'll figure out what sort of personality flaws and personality, interesting personality facets this person might have. Um, it's always important, I think, before you try to do these character sketches and everything, to put them into the world that they're gonna be in for 400 plus pages and let's see how it works out. And you know, you can do it for 50, 60, 70 pages, and then all of a sudden, you're gonna get a better feel for this character about how they actually should come across to the reader and what you think they're gonna need in order to get through this novel in a plausible way. I look, I early on I did the personality sketches, I did chapter out the lines, and I just realized that none of it really was working for me. Um, I just really refer to grow organically. And I have nothing against anybody who likes to outline. I have lots of best-selling friends who outline their books from A to Z. They know the ending, but they write the book, and that's perfectly fine. It works for them or works without. My only advice is you don't have to do it one way. Um, you can do it lots of different ways. And what works for someone else may not work for you. And during your course of your career, if you're fortunate to have a long career, your process actually may change a little bit. You may become more outline-oriented or less outline-oriented the fur the further along you go, because there's no perfect way to do this. You know, you just sort of you sort of jump in, you had a little bit of structure about how you want to spend your day, things you want to accomplish, things you want to write out, things that you might see coming up ahead, um, and then go from there.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah, do you when you when you're doing a series, do you do you have some sort of series arc that's going on as well as the book arc with the characters?

SPEAKER_01 19:12

I have much more of character arc when I do book arc. So let's I'll give it just to be very clear, when I finish um an Amos Decker or King and Maxwell or or Aloysius Archer, um, I have no idea what the next plot's going to be for them. I haven't, you know, done a Bible, a series arc Bible, like you would in a TV series. Um and I don't really want that because I won't be, you know, I won't be with that character for a while. I'm off working at something else. So why do I want to be so hydrofocused on what's coming up next? That allows me some distance from the book that I just wrote, the character. And in my mind, I know, okay, the first first book, Archer did this. In the second book, he uh got his you know detective's license and he was working with really good detective mentoring and learning the trade. The third book, he's now a full-fledged detective in LA in 1953, and he got this murder, you know, murder investigation under his belt, and all these things happened to him. Okay, I know all of that, right? So it's much better for me to know all these factors than I can, when I go back to look at what I want to do with the next, I'm like, okay, here's what's happened to him in these three books so far. What makes sense for me and for the character and for the sort of evolution of the character that I want for him? Where does he go next? What's the next case for him to investigate? It might have not having a whole lot to do with him. It might be something that's interesting that I read about that was happening in the 1950s in the LX, some type of particular crime, some type of particular murder that might sort of inspire me to come up with something else for him to sort of jump into. What was happening during that time period that Archer might have become involved in and how he how he might he investigate it? So that works a lot better for me because I know I sat down with Pizza's paper and go book one, book two, book three, book twelve. I'm never going to use any of that. It's just a total waste of time. At least it is for me. For other people, God bless, although they can do that, do it. Um, but for me, it's just a total waste of time. It's much better for me once I get focused on the next book with this character to sit back, evaluate where these come from, where he got to in the last book, and what might be interesting for him to do in the future, uh, that I'm also interested in past in it in. And then let's just take a little, a little bit of research, a little bit of reading, a little bit of like what was going on back then. And um, you know, what kind of crime might be interested in what sort of characters might populate that type of, you know, structure, that strata of society that where it was crime was happening. And can I get enough subplots out of that, enough interesting characters out of that to keep him engaged and me engaged and ultimately the reader engaged?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

When you go through and and you you get 60 pages in and you've learned your character and learned all these new things and see some new plots, do you go back and start over or do you keep going from that point forward and then come back and do the whole thing again?

SPEAKER_01 21:57

I I typically keep going over. like the first um probably 10 or 12 chapters over and over again as I'm writing a novel. And I always when I go back and I'm going to start writing for a new day, I always go back and read a few of the previous chapters to get me back in tune uh to the characters, to the plot, where I'm going, where I think I'm gonna go after that. I am hyper focused on those initial chapters because they're critically important to set the tongue, pace, style, and narration of the novel. I want readers to know that I'm firmly in control of the story. They don't have to sit there and try to second guess me or try to figure out where it's going before me. I want them to sit back, know they're in the hands of somebody who does this for a living and just enjoy the show. And I don't want to be tripped up if you, if you, if somebody finds something wrong or an inconsistency in those early pages, they've lost all faith with you. And that's not a good thing because then all of a sudden they're not going to be a reader anymore. They're just going to be an evaluator. And that's not what you want. You don't want them looking for the next mistake. So that's really critical to get those, make sure all the pages are pristine, but certainly early ones too. Well with that with that said, um I I focus a lot on going forward in the novel. But in order to go forward in a really plausible consistent way you really have to remember where you're dead, where you come from. So reviewing those earlier pages time and time again as you're writing future pages, I've always found that to be a very productive exercise.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

How far ahead do you see when when you are when you are writing do you just wait and discover it as you're typing or do you go for a long walk and then come in and write what I mean what how far ahead do you see?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Well I'll give you an example I'm working on a book right now it's a sequel to the 620 man that came out last summer. And I had some initial fits and start where I'd set this book in a different place with a different plot and I just wasn't feeling it you know week after week I was like there's nothing you know compelling me to sit down in the front of my computer and write anymore of this I just dumped it. I just cut it cut my losses and moved on to something new for him to do and now I'm really on a roll I'm almost at a hundred pages and that's you know in like in a week and a half which is always a good sign from your right if I write fast it's really a good sign for me because it means I'm totally engaged in the story. So for me at this juncture in the story um I have a number of subplots that are flowing um subplots really actually might rise at the level of primary plots. Doesn't mean you only can have one in any store you can have more than one primary plot. And even though I'm writing you know I'm nearing page 100 um I'm also thinking about possible you know okay let's think down the road of who's behind this, who's behind that, what twist might I come up with to sort of explain what's going on with this character and this plot. And let's narrow down a little bit closer about like who's behind some of this and who's not where the red herrings what's the misdirection where do I want to lead the reader down which path and disguise the real path. So I am thinking about all those things at the same time and that will sort of tell me okay this is I'm going to write this scene this is I'm gonna write this string of chapters because it's necessary for me to sort of get to the progress stage that I want to get to and get to the points that I want to get to um at some point you know I I can write any novel so when I get close to the end I have multiple choices about where I want it to go. Because the basic structure of the thing remains the same regardless of who might be behind it, what the big reveal is you may have to go back and change a few details along the way but the superstructure like building the outside of a yacht the superstructure remains the same the interior details always be manipulated um and you but it'll get you to the same result in but maybe with someone else a different person being behind it all. Okay that's really how I run when I'm sort of putting this all together. So how perfectionistic are you in terms of like the language I mean do you do do you go over uh the way it reads uh several times is that in a polish is that in a draft how many drafts do you do uh writers always want to know how how many drafts am I supposed to do before the thing is finished you know and that that number is different for everybody everybody writes differently I would say that I'd probably go through like a dozen drafts before all said and done and it goes into you know the last round of I call it heavy lifting editing where you get not copy editing but the phase before that where you can get thematic editing um and drilling down more deep in our characters in some of the action uh not action action but just some of the narrative takes place in the plot um I I learned a really good lesson when I was a lawyer was a trial lawyer at a case we were representing a uh client in Texas and uh the defendant in the resilient had caused damage to our client in Texas and we were trying to suit a uh defendant in Texas and they said under long arm jurisdiction which is the way that states can get jurisdiction over other other people even if they don't live there you have to have certain contacts and connections with the state so then you can be sued there. Like a huge corporation like Amazon they do this in every state if Amazon hurts you in a state you can sue them in any state but other businesses it's different. They could say we don't have enough we only have an office there we just go there once in a while you can't sue us there. You have to come sue us where we are in New York with another so I remember writing a brief uh that we argued in in federal court in Texas and I agonized over this burger. And I finally said you know um the great state of Texas should not allow uh the defendant to flit in and out of Texas at its own whim and for its own benefit with no accountability whatsoever. And I know that that word resonated with the judge because in his order he said the defendant should not be allowed to flit in it and out of the of Texas he used that verb and for me that told me all I needed to know about did I take too much time to think of that word? No I didn't because obviously that probably carried the day um and flit is a great word when you try and just to show something like that. You know they just come and go as they want you know with all the benefit and none of the accountability. So language for me is very important you know and I try to be as original with it as I possibly would be I try to avoid cliches if at all possible um I read the dialogue out loud uh to make sure that sounds real and not wooden. And I try to do as much as I can to make sure that you know the clunky sentences even though you're never going to get all of them out of it, you know, as many of them are out of it as possible. The language is streamlined. You know I don't use the th the SARS because I don't know I don't want to look for a word to make me sound smarter than I actually am. I just want to write stuff that sounds natural and real um and let people would say and I think clarity above all is what I strive for. I don't if I can if I wrote it if I wrote a uh a paragraph um there was a hundred words I know that I can write that paragraph far better and make it 10 words. So that's what I strive for.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Brevity and if you had one bit of advice about um uh plot uh if a if if a writer if you were going to give a writer one bit of advice about plot what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

You're not overcomplicated. Um you may think that you're telegraphing everything because you know every detail of the plot. Um so if you're trying to write the story such that in the end you yourself are also confused, um the reader will be lost by page 50. Uh so streamline the plot um and understand that even when you do streamline to the point where you the writer think it's so totally simplistic the reader will look at it and go, wow that was really complicated. Guaranteed that will be the reaction.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Okay and a and a flip question but the same thing what advice would you give about creating characters?

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Understand that when you create a character it's almost like um adopting someone into your family. You know you're gonna be spending a lot of time with that person on a very personal basis. And you need to make sure that it's a sort of person you want to hang out with for a while and that you feel passionate interest about what they're going to be doing in the novel. Never write about a late night because I don't know one and nobody else in the whole world does either and they're boring. So make sure that um the character is the only opportunity you get to connect with a reader on a human level. The plot does not do that for you. The characters do. So if you write a character who never makes a mistake you're gonna lose the reader by page 10. If you have a character who gets knocked down and then gets back up and tries to keep going you're gonna have the readers in your pocket. Any any bit of of closing advice to new writers that you'd like to give keep in mind I know I know the gauntlet that writers beginning writers have to go through. I know it's tough and hard and it's probably harder now than when I started out fewer publishers and lots of other things. But know the industry will always need new fresh voices. You know us guys and gals are not going to be writing forever. And people always want stories they always want content and they always want fascinating characters. So you will always have a shot but make sure you go into it with a lot of you know excitement and enthusiasm and be practical about it too. And ask yourself why do why do I want to write if the answer is I hate my day job that's not a great answer because you're never going to be able to get through that gauntlet of rejections and rejections and just negativity that we all had to encounter. If your answer is I really love storytelling I love spending my days with words and that's really good because then that's going to be like body armor you know when you get rejected it's just going to bounce off you it's not going to kill you. So go into it with the for the right reasons. It's a gift to be able to tell a story it's a privilege to be able to do it. You know I love doing it it's not for everybody but know that this world will always need new storytellers and keep working hard and one day maybe I'll be standing in line to get a book signed by David

Outro

SPEAKER_01 32:11

thank you so much for taking the time to do this.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

What what I appreciate most about this conversation is how honest and practical you've been about the writing life there's a real freedom in hearing someone at your level say that stories evolve characters surprise you outlines don't always survive contact with the page and sometimes the best thing a writer can do is just trust the process enough to stay flexible. I also love what you said about characters that readers connect to humanity not perfection that if a character keeps getting backed up after getting you know knocked down readers will stay with them. I think that applies not just to fiction but maybe even to writers themselves. And your reminder that the industry will always need new voices is something I hope listeners truly hear. Stories matter storytellers matter and there's room for the writers willing to do the work and stay in the fight long enough to grow into their voice. Thank you again for sharing your wisdom your experience and your generosity with our listeners and everyone listening if you enjoyed today's conversation be sure to explore David Baldacci's incredible body of work. There's a reason readers around the world continue returning to his stories year after year. Until next time keep writing keep creating and keep building the career that only you can build. If you enjoyed

Listener Support

SPEAKER_00 33:44

today's conversation and would like to help support the podcast lister contributions make a real difference. Your support helps us continue bringing writers, publishing professionals and creative voices together for honest conversations about craft, creativity, career, and community you can support the podcast through the Lister support link in the show notes and if today's episode meant something to you please consider sharing it with another writer. Thank you for being a part of this community