.png)
The Sound of Healing
The Sound of Healing explores the stories behind a song that inspires, heals, and carries beautiful messaging. Join host Jason Amoroso as he interviews artists about the lyrics, deeper meaning behind the song, the creative process, and the musician's personal journey that shaped the work.
These songs are also featured in Revelation Breathwork classes, where music and breath combine to create transformative, somatic experiences. Discover how you can breathe to these powerful tracks in our online breathwork healing community at revelationbreathwork.com.
The Sound of Healing
Feel It to Heal It by Neda Boin
Neda Boin brings her healing music and spiritual wisdom to a powerful conversation about emotional authenticity and transformation.
• Neda's journey from The Voice of Holland to spiritual music after realizing fame wasn't what her soul needed
• The origins and meaning behind "Feel It to Heal It" and how the song came to her two years before she'd personally need its message
• Using voice as a direct pathway to the subconscious mind and emotional healing
• The importance of actually feeling emotions rather than intellectualizing or spiritually bypassing them
• True forgiveness practice from A Course in Miracles as the foundation of Neda's healing approach
• Breaking family patterns by learning to feel uncomfortable emotions that weren't expressed in childhood
• Why the belief that closing our heart protects us actually prevents real healing
• Finding safety in remembering our connection to the divine rather than in external circumstances
More from Neda Boin:
Instagram: @nedaboin
Spotify: Listen here
Website: https://nedaboin.com
Voice Liberation Program: https://nedaboin.com/voice-liberation
Click Here: Learn more about the healing power of Revelation Breathwork.
Follow us on Instagram: @revelationbreathwork
Email us at hello@revelationbreathwork.com
I'm so excited to be here with Netta Boyne. We've been playing her music in our Revelation Breathwork classes and it is just so heart opening, so heart filling. So to be here with you in person over Zoom is really an honor and just excited to dive deep and learn more about you and your inspirations and your journey today. So thank you so much for being here, netta.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you, Jason. I'm happy you invited me. I'm excited.
Speaker 1:And so let me read a little bit about you, just in case anyone in our audience or new listeners or people coming to the community want to learn more about you. Today's guest is the soulful and powerful Netta Boyne. Netta is a singer-songwriter and a spiritual teacher with Dutch and Persian roots, born and raised in the Netherlands. You might recognize her from the Voice of Holland, where she sang live in front of millions, but it was actually on that stage that she realized fame and glamour weren't what her soul was seeking. That moment sparked a deep call within her to use her voice for healing and awakening. That moment sparked a deep call within her to use her voice for healing and awakening.
Speaker 1:Her journey has taken her all over the world, from writing songs as a child to performing in Kenya, india and hitchhiking through Africa to raise awareness for social justice causes. Eventually, she realized that the healing she was trying to bring to the world was actually a reflection of the healing she was seeking within herself. That realization led her to A Course in Miracles, and from that place of spiritual connection she channeled 15 songs in two weeks, all inspired by the Course. Those songs became her award-winning debut album, the Light has Come, which has touched thousands of people around the world. Her latest album, remember you Were Dreaming, is a beautiful, heart-opening journey from fear to love, produced by Grammy winner Joby Baker, and through her voice liberation work, netta helps others access their own inner voice, to release blocks, pain and old stories. Her name, netta, means inner voice in Farsi, and it's obvious that you're living that name to its fullest. So thank you so much, netta, for being here, really honored, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I asked this of our last guest how does it feel to hear your own bio, your own life, kind of summarized like that?
Speaker 2:own bio, your own life kind of summarize like that. Well, it's funny, actually, because only today I was like, oh, I need, I need to write a new bio. Like it already feels, you know, like kind of like it needs an upgrade, uh, with the things I'm I'm working with now, but I don't know, like, for me it's it's also just like a character, right, like I, I love the, I love playing this Neda character. I I think, um, you know, like I'm at a place now where I'm so happy to play this part, but I also know it's just, it's just a part, it's just a role. So I'm not like super attached to those things, but, um, I am happy when I hear them of like, oh yeah, that that did really, you know, serve my path and it served for me to be where I am today. So kind of like that.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. Well, looking forward, maybe we'll dive in a little bit more about that journey, because the journey is so much of everything the things that we move through and our experiences, our mistakes, our challenges, all the things help us to emerge to who we're continually becoming. And so this episode of the Sound of Healing is dedicated, we like to dedicate, to one song that we play in class. That really is powerful and I think we've been interviewing, I've been interviewing people whose songs, in my opinion, if everyone in the world listened to the song and felt and heard the song, that it would change the world, it would bring incredible healing to the masses. And this song, absolutely with so many of your others, by the way, we've played so many of your songs in class, including Remember your Dreaming, and we just played I Am Worthy the other day. So, but we're going to focus on this one, feel it to heal it, and I love to play it so we can kind of get into the vibe, get into the feeling of it and what do you think?
Speaker 2:Sure yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's do it.
Speaker 2:Darling let it in, don't close your heart to protect it.
Speaker 3:Let it break so the light can get inside. Darling, it is okay to cry. Let it all out. Darling, it is okay to cry. You gotta feel it to heal it. Oh, feel it, you'll heal it. Oh, you gotta feel it, you'll heal it. Be gentle with yourself. Feel what wants to be felt. You'll be okay. Know that you're safe In the loving arms of God. She's calling you home. So just pick up the phone and feel it to heal it. Oh, feel it to heal it. Oh, you gotta feel it to heal it. Oh, you gotta feel it to heal it. Oh, feel it to heal it.
Speaker 3:The shortest way home isn't always the best. Pause and rest, take a deep breath. Oh, feel it to heal it. Oh, you gotta feel it to heal it. Oh, you gotta feel it to heal it. Yeah, oh, you gotta feel it to heal it. You gotta feel it, you wanna heal it. Yeah, yeah, you gotta feel it. You wanna heal it. Oh, you gotta feel it to heal it. Yeah, you gotta feel it. You wanna heal it. Oh, you gotta feel it to heal it. Yeah, yeah, you gotta feel it. You wanna heal it. Oh, you gotta feel it to heal it. You gotta feel it, wanna heal it. Oh yeah, you gotta feel it. You gotta feel it, feel it to heal it. Oh yeah, you gotta feel it to heal it. Oh, feel it to heal it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, netta, holy smokes. Yes, how do you feel listening to your own song?
Speaker 2:I love this song. It's always so nice. Yeah, I used to really um not like it at all, but uh I mean after you record it.
Speaker 1:You didn't like it.
Speaker 2:No, I mean like years ago, hearing my own voice, it was always like, uh, like I was, I didn't like hearing my own voice, but I feel like now and it's still, it's still developing like I really see, the voice is such a reflect, reflection of who we are.
Speaker 2:I notice, with every retreat I do like my voice, my own voice, becomes warmer and softer and more authentic. I feel I'm feel more free to be you know who I really am and to be transparent in my relationships. And I used to teach vocals for many years and at some point I realized, like, why teach people techniques on how to sing better? Because I realized like the more shit and stuff we release and the more trauma we heal, the more blocks to love's presence we break through, the the just, honestly, more beautiful and more depth our our voice gets, you know. So when I hear my voice now it's like I can. I can hear that. I can hear like, yeah, this is a woman singing that is in touch with herself and with God and is singing not to get approval, but singing just to remember and extend the love that she is, you know. So now I can easily listen to myself and it doesn't even really feel like I'm listening to myself. It just feels like I'm just listening to some beautiful music.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I love it, wow Well my experience of this song is that it's just God speaking to me, to us. It's just a message from God, God using you as the instrument as the voice for that message.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not even personal either anymore too, like I don't even feel like I'm the one that that's writing the songs. I'm just a good listener, you know. It's very humbling, um, and I think it's good as well, because you know there are such huge healing and transformations that happens in my retreats and I think it's very good for me to always know very well that it that I have so little to do with it. You know that really, the only thing I always celebrate myself for and give myself credit for is that I have the courage to just show up without a plan and just to listen and follow, you know, and be that channel, but I don't take credit for it. The songs, neither. You know.
Speaker 2:I never go sit behind the piano and be like, oh, I'm gonna write a song now. Like no, they come. You know, in the go sit behind the piano and be like, oh, I'm gonna write a song now. Like no, they come. You know, in the morning I'll hear like a little knock on my door that's kind of how it feels and it's like, oh, there's a song, you know, and then I receive it. That's how I see it. It's never that I'm, that I'm doing it myself, you know. So it's very humbling, I know. Yeah, all I need to do is is just listen, you know, and be open to, to hear it and receive it, and um and follow through, you know so that's a beautiful segue to feel it, to heal it, how.
Speaker 1:What was the origin? Was it? Was that one of the experiences where you just woke up and it just poured out of you? Or or where did the inspiration and the origin of the song come from?
Speaker 2:Well, I think often with certain themes, they're first and foremost, usually always for myself, but, as you know, there's one mind right. So whatever is for me, of course is for the entire universe, of course is for the entire universe, um, but I can definitely see like this song came through before, like kind of way before probably, like more than more than a year before, maybe even two years before I actually went through a big breakup, you know so the time that it was released and like finally record and released and everything that's actually when I went through the breakup. So it was like a beautiful timing for me also to remember, to feel it, to heal it, and it's also been a theme throughout my life. Like, growing up I was very much. Don't feel it like just only show your joy. I was always very naturally joyful and I still am. I'm still a very joyful person. I love to make jokes, I love to make people laugh. I'm so great Even by myself. I make myself laugh all the time, like I'm so crazy, you know. But but there was also, of course, sadness and, you know, anger and all of these other emotions that I didn't know and I didn't also learn from, you know, from young, like how to deal with these emotions. So any uncomfortable feeling, I would just, you know, push down or maybe go run up to my room and cry for a moment and then come back down with a big smile on my face again, pretending like everything is fine. So it's really when the voice liberation and A Course in Miracles came on my path. They kind of came on my path around the same time. I think A Course in Miracles a little bit earlier, when I was 19 or 20. Yeah, I think 20. And I think I was 21 when the voice liberation work came on my path.
Speaker 2:So it very much came together where for me, and still is like this, this really this powerful tool to actually go within, because we can say like, oh, yeah, I'm going to look at my emotions. But how do we do that? Right, but with music and using our own voice. That's actually I find. I've found like it's such a direct tool to get access to our subconscious mind, and you notice that as well when listening to a song. Sometimes it can just instantly hit you Like, why is that? Like? Why does it? You know where? They say to you right, like, words can only go so far, but you know music speaks to the soul and to the heart. You know music speaks to the soul and to the heart.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, for me it has been a really, really important part of my spiritual journey to learn to really feel and to not walk away from my feelings. And, yeah, giving them voice by singing them not even the songs, but just expressing, like we do in our retreats and the workshops, the voice separation work like no words, just like ah, this is how I feel right now, inhale into what I'm feeling and exhale into whatever sound wants to come up has been really really, really helpful to bring it all to the light. You know, also to give words to it, like I think just being transparent, like that's something the no private thought practice that I've been practicing, especially the last couple of years even more. It's just so powerful to like be fully transparent and to not keep anything hidden.
Speaker 2:But then I still notice I see that also in my retreats that oftentimes we have these diets and there's a certain topic that we would share about and I allow them to share in words, but at some point I invite them to let go of the words and just go into sound. And whenever they do that whenever they let go of the words and they go into sound, instantly people start crying and the words couldn't bring them there, you know. Or you feel the anger all of a sudden come up and it's you know, they start shouting, or so it's really beautiful to see, like, yeah, the words are helpful as well, but like a chorus of miracles says, right there, but symbols, of symbols, twice removed from the truth, and maybe the sounds are just once removed from the truth. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but it's very powerful, you know. So, yeah, feel it to heal it, man. That's, that's the way.
Speaker 1:So yeah, feel it to heal it, man. That's the way you know. I was watching one of your YouTube videos where you brought this man in a retreat through talking about speaking, just saying the things out loud, that it's like there's something healing about just saying it, because we don't want to admit it, we don't want to acknowledge it, so just to say and then what you had to do was singing that and you were singing with him.
Speaker 2:It was so moving, and then you could see, and you was singing that and you were singing with him. It was so moving. And then you could see this twitch right yeah, you see the shift in his energy.
Speaker 1:You see, you know, that was one of the words I wrote down as we were listening to feel, to heal. It was permission. Some people and they, they kind of need permission be like, oh, it's okay to feel I think all of us need that, not just some people.
Speaker 2:I think we all need that. We need the permission, First and foremost from ourselves, you know, because, I mean, everything is a reflection of our mind, right? So if we feel like, oh, other people aren't giving us that permission, it's like, well, are you giving it to yourself? You know, like, and probably once you start giving it to yourself, that's going to be reflected outside of you and you're going to see people that you know are so good with giving you that permission and encouraging you and, you know, really applauding your courage to feel all of that and breathe through it. You know, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you shared. You know one of the big themes here that that we talk about in Revelation Breathwork. It is what Revelation Breathwork, it's the primary vehicles, like getting out of your head and the thinking and the words which can be helpful, and into the body, into the feeling, just into a different layer of listening, and something that you shared that I want to just ask. Another question is is when you were younger, you were always like thinking positive or, you know, trying to feel good, and then you started to acknowledge later in your life that it's valuable to acknowledge the uncomfortable feelings that are and just give them that space. I think so many people, especially in our society, it's like either either like suck it up and don't feel, or like just think positive, get out of the uncomfortable feeling you know, like like spiritual bypass, just understand the thing intellectually. It's all God.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So can you share more about, I guess, your own like? What was your upbringing? Like you know, we're so young and impressionable. What were your parents like in that regard, or was this more of your own spiritual journey, and how influential they were?
Speaker 2:Well, I think we all take on our roles in our family system, right, and it's it's like for me. I was the youngest of five and so when I came into the family, there was a lot going on already and, I think, unconsciously, I took on the role of like don't worry about me, like everything is good. I was like always having the good grades and never, you know, there was never sort of like any worries about school or, you know, I was always making sure like no, I'm good, you know, but deep down, deep down, of course, there was just a lot of sadness, but I think, unconsciously, I just always felt like it's too much. You know, I'm not, I can't share this, you know, and and we also don't we didn't learn like my parents also didn't learn, like how to cope with uncomfortable emotions, like they never asked like hey, what is something challenging for you right now? Like this is something now I love asking, like even yesterday I had lunch with my parents and I love to ask this question, like with my friends as well. Like, tell me something that feels challenging for you right now in your life and tell me something that you're excited about. You know, like just to get both, but usually like what we grew up with, and even now still it's like how was your day, what was fun, you know, like like, what was good about it, or but it. But it's rarely like, uh, you know what, what made you sad today, or what was something challenging for you, what was something hard for you?
Speaker 2:You know, I think now there is more parents that are kind of getting into that and you know, teaching kids. You know, I have my, my brother, living here. You know they, they have this book for my little nephew. It's called Big Boys Also Cry. You know, and it's like these type of things now where we're, this generation is more aware of like hey, that's so important, it's so important to also teach them how to feel the discomforts and the sadness and to share about that and to be honest about that. You know, but back then, yeah, my parents didn't know and so I didn't know and I had to learn later on to share. And even you know the last year, I would say, because I just moved back two years ago to I have a little forest casita now.
Speaker 2:I used to live in Rotterdam big city. I moved out when I was 18. So even more like that was all in this. I'm so independent. I was always super independent, always like, don't worry. Now I'm thinking like, oh my God, I was so young, you know I was like 18 moving out in this different city. But my mother was so young, you know, like my mother was 18 when she moved out from Iran. She came all the way to Europe, you know. So for her it was also, I guess, like kind of normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this, now that I'm back here, it brought up a lot, of, a lot of the family stuff. You know, I've really been healing a lot with that these last couple of two years. It's been really beautiful. My parents are very open to it. Of course, sometimes they can get defensive or, you know, it can trigger some and I get that because it's you know, I get that. As a parent, you've always wanted the best for your children, so I get that. It's pretty confronting when your kids go through therapy and they figure out all these things of you know what might have not went so well, but I think they're doing a pretty great job with being able to talk about it and being open to hear about it and these type of things. So it's been. It's been very healing. Yeah, I've been very, very much working on shifting those family patterns and breaking free from from those roles you know. So, yeah, it's good, it's very good yeah.
Speaker 1:What a beautiful testament to the healing journey and I am going to give a lot of credit to your parents for just being having that conversation or listening and apparent myself the defensiveness that can come up.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was going through my master's in spiritual psychology, we did a lot of healing work, a lot of like looking at your, your past, the parenting that you had, the environment you grew up in.
Speaker 1:Oh, this came from that and that came from that. And then when I became a parent, it's like, oh, I'm doing the best that I can with the tools that I have. And then learning that it's not personal meaning, like we are souls having this human experience and we, in a way, we chose our curriculum, we chose the issues that we wanted to move through, we chose the parents that would kind of help us with those issues, or growth opportunities or, you know, expansions into love. So it's no one's fault and it's all part of the divine design. And so I had so much more compassion as a parent moving through and knowing that I'm doing the best that I can and my kids are still going to have stuff on me of what I didn't do or what I did, because, again, it's not about me. You're going to hear about it. I'm going to hear about it.
Speaker 2:I'm going to hear about it and if you raise them well, they're going to, you know, share it with you and be open about it and trust that they can have that conversation with you as well, you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, and can I keep my heart open to like hear it and not get defensive or take it personally?
Speaker 2:And heal it to heal it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes. There's so many things like to go back to as you're sharing. One of them is the again talking about divine design that two years before you maybe really needed that song in your breakup, the song came to you. At the time. Were you like, oh, this is nice. Were you like, why is this message coming through? Or was it until two years later where you're like, oh, that's why I came? It was preparing me for this. What was that like?
Speaker 2:No, I mean, at that point it was already very much part of my life, like the feel it, to heal it, because I had already, you know, realized like how I didn't do that when I was a child, you know, but like it wasn't like something, something really, there wasn't like a lot going on in my life. When it came through that I was really like, oh, I really need this song now. You know what I mean. It was more like when it actually was released, that it was kind of that process, it's, it's all it's.
Speaker 2:A lot of times it's like that, even like with uh, a more recent uh single, I learned to say no, it's, it's like, really, the moment that I released it is when I actually felt like I really had this big transformation around learning to say no. And when it came through, when that song came through, I I don't think I was really there yet. So it's kind of you know, it's kind of funny in that in that way um, and there's a new song coming out now, april 21st that is called I Release and that is very much about releasing family trauma and patterns and all of that. So I'm like kind of curious to see like, okay, it's, you know, you know, probably going to mark another sort of yeah, just big release of those themes in my life. That's kind of how I see it, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's so beautiful, and your last full album, remember your Dreaming, debuted in 2021.
Speaker 2:I think so. Is it 21?
Speaker 1:And you had many, yeah, yeah, I think it was 2021 and you've had many releases since then. Are you create yeah, 20? No, december 21st of 2021, 12, 21, 21? I see what you did there. Um, yeah, you've had many singles since then. Are all these singles coming into another album or is it just releasing these?
Speaker 2:these singles okay they are on a new album. The album will be named. It will be named winds of change. Um, beautiful songs I'm so excited to release that I don't know when yet. Honestly, with even with that, I'm just following spirit's guidance, but the songs have already been recorded. There's just a few that needs to be, that need to be mastered, but it's, it's pretty much done. Um, and I just felt the guidance to just release a few singles before actually releasing the full album. But I do feel I would love to share the whole album this year. So I think that will happen, but I'm really just listening and following along the way. So I'm not sure. But I'm really excited to share new music. I think it's definitely time.
Speaker 1:Well winds of change and releasing it. This year there is a lot of change happening, I think, globally in the world for sure, and also locally in people's lives, like there's no more, in my experience. There's no more hiding out, there's no more ignoring, I think, what's happening both collectively and individually. And so I'm curious what your experience has been being in the student of A Course in Miracles that being the way that you live your life, and then also, how do you see what happens in the world as a reflection of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, beautiful question. I think for me there's never really much of a difference. Like I think, like the ego will always come with new ways to try to make the world real and make exceptions to our forgiveness practice. You know, I still think with everything, whatever triggers you, is an opportunity for healing and it's just a forgiveness opportunity and it's, you know, if it presents itself into your life, whether it's by you reading something in the news or something personal is happening, or you know there's bad weather, or you know whatever, whatever seemingly big or small thing that is occurring, it's always still the same process of what are you going to use this for? Are you going to use this for the purpose of the ego or for the purpose of the spirit, for love or for fear? And that's like the only choice that we always have. And I know that when I'm using it for fear, I'm going to feel like crap, and when I use it for love, I'm going to feel good.
Speaker 2:And now, this doesn't mean that, because this can also, of course, be used to sort of like have blindfolds on and be like oh, I don't give a shit about the world, it's all an illusion, and it doesn't mean that. You know there can definitely be inspired action. Maybe you feel to give money to a certain cause, or maybe you feel to volunteer somewhere, or do you know? There's nothing wrong with that, because I think there can also be this course community where it's almost like sort of like frown upon if you do something in the world, almost like oh, that must mean that you take this world seriously. You know where it's like, well, you know you also are breathing and taking a glass of water in the morning, like that. You know, like any don't make any sort of like the levels of of the world, like it's all, it's all the same and it's all like what are you using it for? So, yes, if you're giving that money or if you're volunteering from this place of injustice, from this place of anger, resentment, fear, then yeah, what is it contributing? You know it's just, it's yeah, that's. I wouldn't recommend that. But if it comes from love and inspiration, then go for it and with anything I would say just use it to remember who you are and don't use it to divide and to blame and to, yeah, to make the ego stronger and bigger inside of you. You know, because that's what you're doing with this. I am right and they're wrong. It's just the ego. It's like this tree, that is just like just sprouting the roots, you know, deeper inside your mind and it's like no, that's not what you want.
Speaker 2:And ultimately, also to be truly helpful, you know, I think is to do the healing work and is to use everything for healing, because if there really is one mind and I do believe there is one mind Then whatever I'm healing is actually beneficial for the entire universe. You know, because we're all going back home together. So it is. It is for everyone home together. So it is for everyone.
Speaker 2:And I think the more, as you know individuals, we remember the love we truly are, the more that's also being reflected in the world. You know, and I mean even, that the world is a reflection of our mind. So it all always comes back to that what is what is going on? Where is the war living inside of me and what can I do about that? And and again, like doesn't mean that you shouldn't do anything in the world if you're called to do that, because I think that can be another pitfall from a lot of Course in Miracles, students of just like don't give a shit about anything in the world, and I don't think that's the way either. But yeah, it's all inside of us. The whole world is inside of us. So do your own work, you know, and don't point the fingers outside or be worried about what should change and how people should change. Like you change, you do it and you heal and you become a better, better you, and you show up as the miracle worker reminding people of who they are. That's what you can do.
Speaker 1:And I want to ask you like can you share with people who, like they hear, maybe they're not into A Course in Miracles, maybe they don't really identify as religious, but they call themselves spiritual again, whatever that means to people? But I want to hear you share, like when you say oh, some people say the world isn't real or it's all an illusion, like, can you share more about that? Because some people be like what do you mean? It's not real. I'm here, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Can you share that perspective from A Course in Miracles or your own understanding of that?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's per se helpful, like, like when you, if you're, if you're not into A Course in Miracles. I don't think you need to understand the whole metaphysics of that. I think what might be more helpful is to understand true forgiveness and to understand like, hey, what can I do when I'm being triggered? Because this is for me the biggest medicine, true forgiveness. So I can go through that if you want.
Speaker 2:And maybe the question you asked me. Maybe you can answer that, if you do feel like you want to, maybe maybe the the question you asked me, maybe you can answer that, if you do, if you do feel like, um, you want to go into that, um, but yeah, so the true forgiveness. So for me, whenever I'm being triggered by anything, so the first step is actually that, feel it, to heal it. So first it's just to allow myself to feel that and just be, to just notice it, like, hey, there's, there's a disturbance, there's something going on here. Can I pause, instead of distracting, moving away from it, numbing, you know, doing all the things that we know to do, to like not look at it, can I pause and look within, you know, with the spirit. So first, there might be still all of this like, but I'm right, but this, but that. Then it's just for me to like, really allow myself to look at all of those judgments, so to not try to be spiritual, to not be, in this case also, oh, it's all not real, everything is an illusion, everything is love, only love is real. Well, if you're feeling this trigger, you clearly don't believe that only love is real. If you're feeling this trigger. You clearly don't believe that only love is real, otherwise you wouldn't feel this trigger right? So there's this lesson in A Course in Miracles that miracles replace all grievances. That talks about this so beautifully, where at first he invites us to really look at our judgments, look at our grievances, look at the way that we perceive. You know, often a trigger has to do with someone else, right? So be super honest about all the judgments that you have about that person and just let it come up to the surface, without it making, making it right or, you know, trying to prove it, but just like letting it come up and see where you feel that in your body. Just like letting it come up and see where you feel that in your body.
Speaker 2:Often, when I do this in my retreats and workshops, and even here by myself, I also see like, is there some sound that wants to be released from this anger or this trigger, this irritation, this sadness? Is there some? Yeah, whatever wants to come out? So I'll just start maybe shaking or just like letting out, letting it out and whatever sound it wants to come out, just to really give it space. And once I've done that, it's time to go deeper and I see like okay, where do I recognize this feeling from? It's often something from when I was younger can come up as well, like this memory that can come up of like, oh yeah, that was like the same feeling, even though it might not make any sense. Like it's like, oh, that's a completely different situation. But if you just close your eyes and say like, okay, where do I know this from, there's often just like this memory that pops up in your mind that still, like, is unresolved, and there again you can just give space, you know, give some sound to it, um, maybe shake it out.
Speaker 2:And then we look at what is the belief underneath um, this memory. So what? What did it actually trigger? Because, as one of the lessons says, I'm never upset for the reason I think. So, whatever happens to me in this world, it's I'm. You know the ego is going to say I'm upset because you did this or I'm upset because this happened, but it's always. You know, this is what I always used to say in prison when I was teaching there.
Speaker 2:I would always use the metaphor of salt and the wound. You know, it's just that trigger is just the salt, but the wound is actually the cause of that salt stinging. You know, if we wouldn't have a wound then that salt would just be a nice little scrub. You know it will make our our skin soft. You know it would be good. But it's the wound that the salt is being thrown in that now we have a problem and now it's. You know it's hurting, so we have to. We can go to the salt. That's the endless journey, like the hamster in the hamster wheel of the ego. Let's look at the salt, look at the salt, look at the salt and spirit is like, well, you're gonna keep running forever, forever. You know, like you're not going to get anywhere by looking at the salt. We have to look at the wound. We have to go inside, take back that projection and see like hey, what is actually underneath it. So you find that projection, that wound that is underneath that trigger, by checking like what is it that the ego is trying to prove here? You know, there's always this belief like this is clearly proving that I'm not good enough, or this is clearly proving that I'm abandoned. This is clearly proving that I'm guilty. This is clearly proving that I'm not worthy. This is the wound. You know, this is the thing that actually hurts.
Speaker 2:And ultimately it all comes down, of course, to that one belief of I'm separated from God, separated from love, but sometimes that can be very abstract, you know. So it can help for me. Often the belief that comes up is I'm abandoned, you know, and I yeah, I resonate more with that than I'm separated. So it's kind of more like what word works for you and where you can feel it like oh yeah, I feel that like in my heart, or in my belly, or in my chest, my throat. Workshops, then, will really sound that as well, to really go with our mind, um, to the place where that belief lives inside of us and release it through sound, um. But you can also just really imagine placing that belief into the hands of the, of the spirit.
Speaker 2:So just like in, in very short, and, and then just to add like, so you release it into the hands of the spirit and you ask for it to be replaced by the truth. So so, in, just, in short, it's like you feed it, you feel what is going on, you go deeper to check hey, what is the belief that is actually underneath this trigger, and then you hand it over, and as you truly hand it over and I can see for myself that when it doesn't work, it's because I actually don't really want to hand it over and my ego still has an attachment to being angry or being resentful, because the ego thinks that there's some value in not forgiving. It's actually like that that, you know, the ego can really will say, like you know, for me to be innocent he needs to be guilty. So if we're not going to fully forgive this situation, then you know where does that leave us. So we have to come to this place where we really realize like I really don't want to suffer anymore and I'd rather be happy than be right, and forgiveness is not a sacrifice.
Speaker 2:It's not this thing that we give away. You know forgiveness is is a release of fear, it's a release of pain, it's a finally seeing clearly. It's a replacement of fear by love. You know it's the sweetest medicine that we can take. You know, it's not anything to be afraid about or to feel like it's a sacrifice of anything. So once we get to that place, it becomes very easy to wanting to hand it over and wanting the spirit to replace all of our cuckoo-ness with miracles, you know. So, yeah, that's my practice and that's like a continuous practice. Whenever something comes up, that's what I do.
Speaker 1:And it sounds like that's what you do in your workshops as well is help people learn that practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then it can go so much deeper with the voice as well Because, yeah, like we talked about, I think, with the breathing as well you get to a place where all that resistance is just gone. I think that's the thing with the voice, that it really helps in breaking through resistance and it can go so deep. But then there's a lot of variations that I do with this core practice. So sometimes there's more of a journaling and combination of journaling our thoughts and then releasing and forgiving. Sometimes there's things in pairs, you know, where we actually can sort of like embody the person that we have a grievance towards and we can actually say these things out loud and you know the person can help us in our forgiveness practice. Or there's different things. I again that is also just channeled in the moment. So it's always fun to see how these exercises unfold, but they're always based on the forgiveness practice of A Course in Miracles, yeah.
Speaker 1:So beautiful and I there's so much to kind of dive into and and talk about. What you just shared in terms of the process, one of the big things that stands out is the feel it, to heal it. In that my own experience is like being an overthinker, a mental, mental person it's safer to stay in the head, so, in a way, it's safer to understand your issues. Oh, my issue came from my childhood when this or that happened. So they stay in the head, I get it and I think I've healed it, but the energy, the emotion, is still there. And so what you're sharing is this process of feeling it first and then, maybe not in an order, but feeling it as a core component.
Speaker 1:And what you said too and this was a question that that I wanted to ask you just like, well, some people that are mental like well, how do I feel it? I think I'm feeling it, and my wife would always say you're not feeling, you're, you're feeling, you're thinking about it. So, like, what's the sensation in the body? Like you said, oh, it's in my throat or it's a tightness in my chest, and then I can, oh, a, a sensation, I can feel that, instead of like, feel your emotions. I don't know what they are, so it's a way to access that energy and then, as we give ourselves permission to feel whatever's present, what you shared is like the wisdom. The memory will pop in. Oh, here's the wound, or as I like to call it. It's like it's just what you said. It's just a misunderstanding that god doesn't love me. It feels like a wound, it hurts, but when we get to it, oh, it's just a misunderstanding that I've been buying. It's not even the thought that god doesn't love me that causes the pain.
Speaker 1:It's that I'm believing that thought exactly exactly seriously yes, I believed it, I thought it was true, I invested my energy into it. Now I'm suffering the effect of that and it's all because somebody cut me off in traffic.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, that was the instance, that was my trigger, but it really just brought me home back to and even the whole like, like, sort of like to go just a little bit into the metaphysics now that you're touching upon it, like this whole thing of like a tiny mad idea, um, you know where all was one, you know, there crept a tiny mad idea at which son of god forgot to laugh about. Like that's sort of like the origin story of how a course in miracles explains the, the universe, I guess. Right, this idea that in this perfect oneness, so truth, heaven, capital, h, however you want to call it, there was this thought of the son of God, of the child of God. Like what, if right, like what if I could be, you know this, instead of um being part of the ocean? Like this wave thought, like what if I could be separate from it? What if I could be on my own?
Speaker 2:And taking that seriously, sort of like the big bang of okay, this is like a hypothetical of what would happen if we indeed could be separated from source and if indeed we could live in duality where we are oneness, like it's not. It's not possible, right like in in pure oneness, to have a two-ness all of a sudden, because then it's not oneness anymore. Right, like it says, like the, the opposite of love is fear. But what is all-encompassing can have no opposite right. But like here in this world, we constantly experience opposites. Um, so, yeah, that's like, and just like the fact of like us taking that idea seriously. But this is why I'm always like I love talking about this with like course nerds, but like I get that when you're hearing this and you're not into a course, it's like but what you know? What about this? What about that? You know, because we can talk about it, but at the same time, it's like, well, it actually never could have happened. So are we even having this conversation.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, like in truth, we cannot even have this conversation. So it's just like when we're dreaming at night, it all looks so real and you wake up and where did the dream go? You know the dream is gone and, um, so I, yeah, I don't. I don't want to go too deep in that, but I think think it's very powerful, this idea of believing, believing something makes it real. You know, believing is seeing, um, instead of seeing is is believing. So, yeah, taking, taking away that belief, and even with things that are happening in our life, like I was actually just um before this call, talking to one of my best friends who is going through a breakup right now. So I was telling him as well, you know, feel it, to heal it and to really refuse, just like, really refuse to use it for the ego's purposes. You know where we can see, like, ok, the ego. Like when you do this a lot, lot, you can already spot it from afar, right where, ah, okay, I can see you. You want to use this again to. You know, make that belief stronger that I am unworthy and that I am abandoned and that I'm not good enough. Like that's your agenda, like that's what you, that's your plan for this situation, to make me believe that. And it's just like this refusal of like. No, I refuse to use it for that purpose. Like, the only purpose I want to use this for is to remember who I am and I'm not going to jump on that train anymore of you leading the interpretation of this show. The interpretation of this show, you know. So it you know there's some sort of like power in that at some point as well, where I'm like nope, we're not gonna do that anymore and it doesn't mean that, you know, we'll still fall in that trap.
Speaker 2:I think being the happy learner is one of those concepts, right Of the course, that I love. Being the happy learner that is not afraid of learning, that does not feel guilty it says it does not feel guilty for learning, because why would you feel guilty for learning if you know, in truth, you already graduated the first day you came? You know it's already done and over, so you have no need to feel guilty. But to be gentle with yourself, and that's a line as well from that song Be gentle with yourself, feel what wants to be felt, right. I think that's so, so, incredibly important.
Speaker 2:That was also for me. I used to be very strict with myself. I was like, wow, if my friends would talk to me the way that I talk to myself, I would be like I'm not going to be friends with you. You're terrible, you know. So, and I think a lot of people recognize that right Like, the way that we speak to ourselves is so harsh. Ourselves is so harsh, um. So you know, be gentle with yourself and really speak to yourself as you would to one of your best friends.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's so important so getting into the lyrics a little bit, which we haven't even done. I mean, we've talked about this idea of feel it to heal it. Um, I the first, the first part, the first stanza darling, let it in, don't close your heart to protect it. Let it break so the light can get inside. Darling, it's okay to cry. Let it all out. So you have this idea of letting something in as well as letting something out. Can you share a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the letting in part is just really allowing yourself to feel it and to not look away, to not numb, to not try to spiritual bypass, because, yeah, like you said, it is another strategy to intellectualize. I think this is something especially for Course in Miracles students is a thing that a lot of us do because it's, you know, even I think was it Helen Schuckman that said something like finally a pathway, spiritual pathway for the intellectuals, was that her? Or I think it was right. Yeah, and it's such a thick book, you, you know. So there's, I get it, you know, I really, I really get it.
Speaker 2:But it's another trick of the ego to just use the words and to not actually go into the experience. And there's this beautiful section in a course that talks about the fear to look within and I think there it kind of, for me, explains why we do that, and this is all unconscious, but it talks about, you know, like that the ego is like really being so loud about don't go within. Don't go within, like what you find there is like so terrible. Basically I'm paraphrasing, but it's kind of like this it's so dark and black with guilt, like you don't want to go. You don't want to go there. You know, stay away. You know, just go outside, just focus on the world, go look at the news, you know. But then it says but the ego is saying this too often and too loud, you know, it's kind of suspicious like how much he's telling us and how loud he's yelling don't look within. It's almost like, hey, why are you so protective of this? You know, why are you really trying to make sure that we don't go within? And then it says it's because underneath this fear lies another fear. What if you would look within and you saw that there was nothing there? You know, there was nothing there to be afraid of, there was just only love. You know, and that's the real fear of the ego. What if we look within and instead of all of this darkness we actually find love? You know, that's the end of the ego, right? Because the ego is the belief in fear, is the belief that we could be anything else but love. So I think that's always very interesting and so, yeah, it's, it's the way inward, to go out and to soften our hearts, to when things happen to us.
Speaker 2:Life it can, just, it can be so painful, man like, especially breakups, like I was just talking to him and it's like, oh, I know like how that feels. I think most of us, if not all of us, have experienced at least one breakup, and we know like how painful that is, and not just breakup. There's so many things in life that know we gone through where it's like oh, I just like you feel like you're dying, you know. But again, I think when we use that for the purpose of healing, for the purpose of the spirit, then it will just crack your heart wide open for the spirit to pour its light into you. You know, so it's all an opportunity and our choice that we have is what are we going to use it for? That's the only choice that we get to make in every moment, you know.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and also to remember that it's okay if you chose wrongly. You know, one of my favorite prayers from the course is I must have decided wrongly because I'm not at peace, right? So, like, whenever I'm not at peace, I realize like, oh, it's because I chose for the ego. And then it continues by saying I made this decision myself, so I can also choose otherwise. And I want to choose otherwise because I want to be at peace. And then it says I do not feel guilty because the Holy Spirit will undo all of the consequences of my wrong decision if I will let him and I choose to let him by allowing him to decide for God.
Speaker 2:For me, it's this reminder of like, yeah, whenever I'm upset, I put the ego in charge, and when I realized I did that, there's two things that can happen. Either the ego is going to, you know, come and blame me and shame me for using, for putting him in charge. It's like's like oh, you're so stupid for choosing me, and it's still ego, right, it's still. It's like ego on top of ego on top of ego. This can happen often like I'm definitely, uh, I was very good at doing that, you know. Then blame, like noticing it, and then again coming in with with the ego blame. So it's like, no, just be kind, you know, be like oh, shit, I forgot. Okay, I chose for the ego. It feels really bad. I don't want to feel this anymore. I choose for the spirit and I make a different choice. And, you know, forgive yourself, it's okay, be the happy learner. You'll have many more moments like that. And uh, yeah, remember, you're dreaming, just see if you can have some fun along the way.
Speaker 1:You know, don't take yourself too seriously, don't take this practice too seriously, but just remember to smile can you share a little about that line, because it seems I don't know if counterintuitive is right the word is the right phrase this idea that don't close your heart to protect it. So it's a. It's kind of assuming that we all think if we close our heart, if we armor up, then we're safer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But does that keep us safe?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not real safety, right, because when I think of real like, when I think of safety, when I was still a student of the Eagle, I would learn that safety comes from things like money, from having stability in the world, of like you know, like all of these things that in truth it's not real safety because it can always go away, it can always be like, it's always unreliable, right when, and it doesn't mean that that again, there's different levels of form. This doesn't mean that you, you know, shouldn't get a job or you shouldn't, you know, whatever, like you, you know, don't just go and jump off a building because you know, like that's the level confusion that some people can get into. Of course, like also be normal. But if we think of true safety, for me now is remembering God, actually to just remember that he got me and that I don't have to rely on my own strength. And this is something I remember hearing this like years ago when I was 17. I was, I went one time to church and I think the guy was saying something like that like don't rely on your own strength, rely on God. And I remember it was making me so mad. I was like what are you saying, like I'm super powerful and I need to rely on my own strength. You know, that's what I learned. Like I'm an independent woman and I am. You know, I have my own strength and this and that.
Speaker 2:But honestly, now I realize like, oh, what a relief to let go of thinking that I know what's best. Because, honestly, what do I really know? What can I know? Like I'm so limited in what I know. Even if I was the strongest, the smartest woman in the whole universe and I'm definitely not like I would still know so little. You know, I can never know the whole picture, but spirit does so. Like, even for anything, like this conversation, my retreats, my workshops, my work, like I get so comfortable knowing that I don't have to do it, like I'll just sit down and be like spirit, use my voice, you know, use my hands for user like because I know he knows better than me, you know. So there's like such a relaxation that comes from that and, I think, knowing that love is who we truly are and that love created us as love and that nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists. You know that beautiful, powerful introduction. I think when we really let that in, that's where true safety comes from. So, and we're going to realize that not by, you know, closing our heart up like for, for love, it's actually by letting it in, by letting it widen, by looking inside, by actually going into these forgiveness opportunities, by going into these relationships where we learn it.
Speaker 2:Again, this doesn't mean we should stay in abusive relationships, absolutely not. And there's also wisdom in walking away. Sometimes there's no giving up there, you know, that's something I had to learn too, of like, oh, if I'm a good course student, I need to stay as long until this is completely transformed. But forgiveness doesn't end when we leave people. You know we can never actually leave people because they're all in our minds, you know. So even that is like such a trip. It's like no, you might break up and move to separate countries or whatever it is, different planets. They're still going to live in your mind and you're still going to have to do the forgiveness work. But yeah, the real safety is knowing who you are. You know, and has nothing to do with with this world of fading particles or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:As I like to say, all things in time are temporary.
Speaker 2:Exactly, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Someone needs to hear this, not sure who, but it's going to be important. You're talking about the Holy Spirit, talking about God. You're saying he, he knows he's this, and then in your lyric and your song, in the loving arms of God, she's calling you home. So just pick up the phone so share a little more about the he she here.
Speaker 2:Good, I love. I think that's such a good question. No-transcript, one song in there. I Am Not a Body that before I went into the studio I was like you know what, let me actually check out what these songs are about. Because they were channeled and given to me in a span of like two weeks where I would just receive these Course in Miracles songs every day, and I just put them on the shelf, you know, was like very ashamed of like singing about God.
Speaker 2:I was becoming this next big pop star. I was on the Voice, like you said. So there was. It was like I'm not gonna, this is definitely not commercial hit material, you know. So I put them on the shelf and it was really when I was in the Voice that I, you know, had a breakthrough and realized look, all this glitter and glamour, it's never going to give me what I truly desire in my heart.
Speaker 2:And these songs came to mind again, again, and that's kind of where I surrendered to using my voice for spirit, you know. But I still actually didn't really have any idea of of, like, what do these lessons actually really mean? And let me just go deeper into it. So I had a beautiful process before I went into the studio to really let the teachings of the song enter into my heart and to really integrate what they mean, which I think was very important to do so before I recorded them, because I think a song is also like a transmission. It's like a message that you are receiving as a listener. So I think the fact that when I was singing them I had integrated that lesson so much and really was feeling the truth of that lesson in my whole being makes it that when people are listening now they're actually receiving that. You know. I think that was very important.
Speaker 2:So when I came to this song, I read I think it's like in the first I don't have my album here now, but I think it's already in the first line where I say something or the first few lines where I say the love of God proclaimed me as his son. And I read that and I was like, oh my God, f. No, I cannot sing that. What? Like I'm a woman, like I'm not going to sing that. The love of God proclaim me as his son. So I was like I have to change it. I for sure have to change it. So it was kind of like okay, maybe I can change it to daughter, but that's like more syllables, um. So it's like you know what, I'm gonna change it to child and everyone's happy. That's like not like specific of female, male, like anything in between. Back then it wasn't, like, you know, such a big thing yet with all of these different in between things, but then it was like neutral, ok, so everybody's happy.
Speaker 2:But it felt like I felt a lot of tension in my body as I was changing it, but I was like just ignore it, ignore it. I'm not going to sing sun, so that's out of the question. You know, I'm going to just sing child. Ok, I still had a few days, um, before the studio and like every day I just felt like, whenever I thought of it, I felt like this tension. I was like it didn't feel good, but I just kept ignoring it, kept ignoring it until, like I think, the day before the studio, I was like I can't go in the studio like this. I have to look at what's going on. You you know why am I feeling so much tension around this song? So I sat down, I closed my eyes. Spirit was like finally, you know, finally you're here. I was like okay, what is going on. You know, why am I feeling this tension and so quickly? I was just laughing out loud.
Speaker 2:I could so clearly hear Spirit saying, like dude, you know, this is a song about how you are not a body and you are here trying to make sure that everyone knows that you're not a son of God, but that you are a daughter or a child. You know, this is actually about letting go about the meaning of those things and to remember that. You know, it's not, it's, it's it that doesn't even have any meaning. You know, it's just mentioned in the course. Everything as he but it. It would have been the same teachings with she, you know.
Speaker 2:So now I always say, like it's just just for women, maybe we have a little bit of an extra opportunity for healing, you know, because it can really trigger it, definitely triggered for me as well, and I would say, like, if men, you know, want to have a little, if they feel left out and they want some more forgiveness opportunities, just change everything into I am the daughter of God, and just see what that does for you. You know, um, but it was so beautiful and I, of course, I just left it as uh, so you can listen to it. You know the song is on Spotify. You can hear me sing very proudly that I am the son, that's the son of God.
Speaker 2:And I felt like almost like mischievous like, when I was recording it in the studio. I had so much fun and I was like, yeah, like so I think that was for me very important, to get to that place where I could see like, oh yeah, it's not about that, it's about it's just a symbol. Again, words are twice removed from the truth, right, but symbols of symbols. So it's just a symbol of the creator, which, the course you know, refers to as the father. It's just the creator and the son is the creation. So, as with everything, if it triggers, you just use it.
Speaker 2:Don't blame the course, don't blame men, don't blame whatever it is. Just use it and go inside and see, I'm never upset for the reason. I think so. I might think that I'm upset because it's just this male dominance language, but that's not the real reason. There's something underneath that and if I really want to be making progress, I'm going to use it to see what is underneath. You know.
Speaker 2:So when I was really, when I really healed, that it also didn't matter anymore. So I noticed like, oh, then there can come this thing of like oh, I'm a course student teacher, so now I have to use the course language, so now it's like he. And so that became another concept where I was like I also want to let that go. Like, I also want to just say, like God, she, you know. So that's why, in that song, I started to become a little bit more creative with it and refer to God.
Speaker 2:As you know, she's calling you home just to really, you know, practice, letting go of those, the importance of those things, you things, and yeah, maybe that really invites other people into that song as well, maybe for others. Again, it's triggering something. There's always something for anyone. So I think as long as we use it all for healing, then it's all good. Use it all for healing, then it's all good, you know. But I had definitely have my own little fun little ride with that topic I'm so glad that you shared that it's so important and valuable.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Especially nowadays, for sure. Yeah, I mean it's always been, of course, like, but now it has come more to light, so I think it's it's really good to have that conversation, for sure.
Speaker 1:And that goes back to what you shared earlier about what's happening in the world. It doesn't matter what's happening in the world, it's it's all an opportunity for forgiveness and am I going to be the presence of love, regardless of what's happening?
Speaker 2:Exactly For sure exactly for sure.
Speaker 1:Last lyric of the song. I'd love to for you to share some something about the shortest way home isn't always the best. Pause and rest, take a deep breath. Can you say a little bit more about the shortest way home isn't always the best? Like where that?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, I guess, again, like now when I look at it, it's like I can argue that as well, because, you know, I do think actually the shortest way home is is is the best, but it all depends on where you're coming from.
Speaker 2:Right, for me, the shortest way is forgiveness and it's the best way. But I guess, like when I was writing that, I was more thinking in terms of the world, as in like, well, let's take, for instance, like relationships, so you're going through a breakup and then, oh, like often, this advice that people would give, like, oh, the best way to get over a guy is to get under him, right, like it's the thing of like, like quickly, like let's not take time for, and, uh, even even with myself, like this is the first time that I've actually not been in a relationship for a couple of years, like I always would go from one relationships into the next and like actually never really taking my time to look at my patterns and to really heal from what happened. You know, it's just like again, this way to move away from it, to not feel, just like distract and go straight into something else. Um, so, and it's been so healing for me actually, now I know relationships are incredibly healing and I think a lot we actually need, you know, this container for to be able to see, like all the the mirrors and stuff. But oh, the healing that has occurred these last couple of years to look at my patterns and break through so much stuff. You know it's incredible. So I'm more meaning in that way. But yeah, in truth I think or in this world I do think true forgiveness as taught by A Course in Miracles, of course not the sort of traditional forgiveness of I forgive you and I'm so good and you're still so bad, but I'm because I'm the better person, I'm going to forgive you.
Speaker 2:You know that's not the real forgiveness that I'm talking about, of course, the forgiveness as we talked about, of like looking within and looking what is actually the true cause. So like, really it's like, you know, like gardening right, like I just got into gardening. I'm not very bad, not very good, I think at it, but I love it. So I'm going to see now of any of the flowers I planned the last year that are coming back, hopefully. I didn't have a garden for well, I never had a garden when I moved out, but now I have my garden and it's so nice a garden when I moved out, but now I have my garden and it's so nice.
Speaker 2:But even that, I think it's such a nice metaphor, right, like like the maybe the quickest way to just take away the weeds would be like just to cut everything from the top, right, it would be like super quick, but it's not the most effective way, right, because it would just instantly grow back. Like the best ways to like really take it from the roots and I think that's what true forgiveness is is going to the roots, taking out that root and really allowing what is behind that. It's not even so much. I mean, of course, america does talk a lot about replacing it, but I don't even think in truth is really about replacing. It's actually when we take away that ego belief. It's more that the thing that was already there, we can finally witness it and experience it.
Speaker 2:I'm more like, also, that metaphor with the sun. You know that when the clouds are in front of it and it's so dark and we can, we can't experience, um, the light and and the warmth, but once the clouds move away, it's not like there's nothing for a moment and then we have to bring the sun. It's like, once the clouds are gone, it's like she is. You know, she was always there. She's always there, even in the night. Right, the sun is always there, but we just can't see it right now. So I think that's that's for us, you know, that's that's the lesson the light has come, you are healed, you are saved, you know, you're already home.
Speaker 2:Enlightenment is but a recognition. It's not a change at all. Right, and those who seek the light are merely covering their eyes. There's a song on the album where I use those words as well, from the chorus it's not a change, you know. It's just like a recognition of who we truly are. And the more we look within and shine a light upon those dark clouds and the more they, you know, move away, it's the light that is behind them, that was hiding behind them, can shine through. And, yeah, then we start to experience the happy dream, until we wake up fully and remember that nothing. You know it was, it was never even real. But, um, enjoy the journey, you know.
Speaker 1:Enjoy that so last question so good, how do you define healing when you because we use this term a lot healing, what is healing for?
Speaker 2:you. Good question, good question. I think for me, what comes up is that healing is just remembering who you truly are. It's like a remembrance. So it's not something that is broken that needs to be fixed, what's kind of like the sort of more traditional you know, I broke my leg and now that needs to be fixed. I think healing is more about taking away or shining a light upon whatever is not true. You know, by looking within, we shine a light up everything that's not true and then what is true will be able to show itself. You know, yeah, how would you, how would you define healing?
Speaker 1:healing is remembering who we truly are, literally the the same way that you just said it.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'm just channeling you?
Speaker 1:I don't know but it is, it's my experience, it's a remembrance, all the things you said. It's like, oh, the sun's always been there, god's love's always been there. I just wasn't able to see it or experience, or I was focused on this, when, when I couldn't see.
Speaker 2:So it's all the things that you've already said oh, my goodness, it's, it's crazy and and like I mean I just actually I don't know if you can see it, I just I don't know, maybe this is like mirroring, but I just. Can you see this, or is this like?
Speaker 1:I can't read it. I can see words, but I can't see what it says. Always with me, but I can't see what it says.
Speaker 2:God is always with me what does it say?
Speaker 2:God is always with me, god is always with me and I actually just put that on a couple of months ago because I still need the reminder. You know, I still need the reminder. So, yeah, I think it's so important for us to be gentle. I've said it before, but I think we need some repetition of this because we can be so hard on ourselves and we forget, and we'll be reminded. You know, this conversation will remind you again and maybe send it to a friend who you think might need this reminder as well. You know, and let's help each other. You know we're doing this together.
Speaker 1:I love that and what you shared. Your tattoo reminded me. When I was deep in the course, I studied the course for about, of course, the miracles. I mean I'm always a student of the course for like 10 years, literally line by line. There's a great volume of books by Kenneth Wapnick. It's called the Journey Through a Course and he goes literally line by line. He'll do a line and then I'll have like the explanation of it and the whole course, the workbook, the lesson, the teacher's manual. And I remember when I was, when I was really in it, I was like I got to get that line tattooed on my hand, or like I was going to tattoo my whole body with, with core slides just as reminders. I ended up not I'm probably too chicken for tattoos, but where can we find you? How can people who don't live in Europe or in your area or where you are live experience you get the benefit of your services.
Speaker 2:Right? Well, there's different things. I organize many workshops, concerts, retreats all over the world, not just in Holland. There's a retreat coming up in Bali as well. If you're like, let's go all the way, there's a week long retreat and that one is really really, oh my God, that one. It just goes so deep. This is going to be the fourth time and I think, the last time Bali for now, but it's incredible to do a week of these type of sessions of forgiveness and having that beautiful jungle background of the rice fields surrounding us and just that energy of Mama Bali. It feels very much like a mother that is holding us in there in her womb and supporting the. The healing it's. It's very powerful. So there's a few spots left for that one. You can find it on my website, netaboingcom. Um. I also have some online courses that they can check out. There's a beautiful online course where I just recorded a whole lot of sessions with different themes.
Speaker 2:So it was like two, I think two or three months that I took out to record this and it's been one of the most healing things for me to create. It was during COVID and I would just every morning I would just check like, oh, what's going on for me and whenever there would be some sort of like irritation or anger or sadness or grief, whatever it was, I would just turn on the camera and would ask spirits to you know, channel through and give me a session. And that was where I first experienced like that time is not linear, because I could literally feel everyone that will ever buy this course. I could feel them with me in that moment and it was really really crazy. So if you're thinking now yeah, that was me, I was there. Even though you have no recollection of that yet, you know this is for you. It was totally crazy. But it's a beautiful course with a whole library full of different themes.
Speaker 2:So, from grief, anger, forgiveness, relationships, money, trust, anxiety, joy. Also, if you're just joyful and you want to do, you know, just some free singing and experiencing, you can just go in there and do a session on that theme and it's very powerful. There's a little bit of a foundation before that of where I teach you how to connect your voice to your emotions and how you can give space to you know, everything that we just talked about. There's a lot of sessions with the forgiveness that we talked about, you know, guided, so they can do that and what else? Spotify they can find my music. They can also find it on my website. I'm on Instagram as well. Youtube, so they can just go wherever they feel guided and inspired to go.
Speaker 1:That's the voice liberation program that anyone can go on your website and purchase, and those are all the sessions that you laid out and they're going to get a whole lot of healing, a whole lot of experience and understanding about themselves, their voice love, so do.
Speaker 1:If you're watching this and you've been drawn to anything that Netta has shared, or just her energy and the way that she expresses herself, get that program. Do yourself a favor, you will. Oh my gosh, it's a no brainer. So thank you so much for being here. I have a feeling that this is the beginning of something cool and beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I enjoyed it, Jason. Thank you so much. Love your questions and beautiful. Yeah, I so enjoyed it, Jason. Thank you so much. Love your questions and beautiful yeah.
Speaker 1:I knew this was going to be awesome and I didn't know it was going to be this awesome it's. That's the beauty of the mystery. Yeah, oh, my gosh, I cannot wait to share this with our community and anyone who spirit brings along the way, to experience you and your light and your love and your message and your music and the healing that's available by just you being in the world. So, thank you, so much thank you.