Resurrection: Three Questions Every Christian Should Ask (with Matthew Tingblad)

Three questions are critical to ask when it comes to the topic of resurrection. First, how does resurrection fulfill a natural longing that we all recognize? Second, do we have good reason to believe Jesus was raised from the dead? And third, does the promise of resurrection mean more than just life after death for Christians or does it have every-day impact? Join us as we talk with Matthew Tingblad, an apologist, international speaker, and author of "Why Did God Do That? Discovering God's Goodness in the Hard Passages of Scripture"

Other Resources mentioned: 

On the Resurrection: Evidences, Gary Habermas

Timeline:

00:00
Introduction to the Resurrection Discussion

03:14
Exploring the Natural Longing for Resurrection

06:08
Historical Evidence for Jesus' Resurrection

09:15
Alternative Theories and Their Shortcomings

12:09
The Impact of Resurrection on Daily Life

15:12
Personal Stories and the Assurance of Hope

18:09
Conclusion and Future Topics

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 3:14 Exploring the Natural Longing for Resurrection
• 6:08 Historical Evidence for Jesus' Resurrection
• 9:55 Alternative Theories and Their Shortcomings
• 17:11 Tension Among Disciples and Leaning into Doubts
• 20:56 Recap of evidences for the Resurrection
• 23:02 The Impact of Resurrection on Our Life Stories

Transcript

Shelley Komoszewski (00:15)
Hello and welcome to episode four of the In and For podcast. My name is Shelly Komoszewski.

Brock Anderson (00:23)
I'm Brock Anderson.

Matthew Tingblad (00:25)
And I am Matthew Tingblad.

Shelley Komoszewski (00:27)
Wait, there's three of us today. A little new format.

Brock Anderson (00:29)
There are.

Matthew Tingblad (00:32)
surprise here I am yes

it is a it's great to be here it's this has been fun I've been looking forward to being a part of this podcast for quite some time now

Shelley Komoszewski (00:43)
You should feel very honored. You are our first live guest. Ooh.

Matthew Tingblad (00:47)
Woo hoo!

Brock Anderson (00:49)
First live guest, yes, different format, different look for those watching, probably a little bit of a different sound for those listening, and just an incredibly exciting topic. And we'll be talking about something that all of us celebrate around this time of the year, all of us Christians celebrate in the resurrection, but talking about it from a unique point of view.

Shelley Komoszewski (01:11)
Yes! And what is that unique point of view, Brock?

Brock Anderson (01:15)
The unique point of view is looking at what we would consider to be the three most important questions that you could ask about the resurrection, or at least three of the most important questions you could ask about resurrection. And those three questions are, just to give away the questions right off the bat, are, does the idea of resurrection make sense in our world? Does it fulfill a natural longing that we all have?

Shelley Komoszewski (01:42)
Hmm.

Brock Anderson (01:43)
And the second question is, is there a good reason to believe that Jesus was raised from the dead? And enter our special guest Matthew Tingblad. And then the last question is, what impact does the resurrection of Jesus have on our day-to-day life? Is it a ticket to heaven or is just something, is it something much more than that, that actually affects and impacts our day-to-day life? Those are the questions we're looking at.

Shelley Komoszewski (01:50)
Enter our special guest Matt Tingblad

Brock Anderson (02:10)
And yes, we have our guest, Matthew Tingblad here. Matthew is an international speaker for the Josh McDowell ministry. He's spoken around the world about the resurrection of Christ, about the trustworthiness of the Gospels, about the goodness of God. He's written a phenomenal book called Why Did God Do That?, which looks at some of the difficult passages about God that may challenge His goodness in Scripture and shows why those passages not only do they not diminish the goodness of God, but they actually demonstrate.

the goodness of God. There's a link to that book in the show notes. Check it out. I read it several months ago. It is a phenomenal book for discussions you're having with others or if you've ever struggled with some of those passages that are popular about challenging the goodness of God. So, highly recommend that book. But, thank you. I love to do lovely intros.

Shelley Komoszewski (02:56)
That was a lovely intro. Well done, Brock.

Matthew Tingblad (02:59)
I love to have lovely intros done upon me.

Shelley Komoszewski (03:07)
wow, now this is getting really difficult.

Brock Anderson (03:07)
wow, this is just been. What a what a lovely 

Brock Anderson (03:12)
podcast this is turned out turned out to be. So today's topic is perfect for the season that we're in as we as we close in on Easter, but it's also much more than that. The resurrection is an essential topic to listen to and understand regardless of what season we're in. So if you're not near April or March and you're listening to this lock in because.

Shelley Komoszewski (03:14)
Moving on!

Brock Anderson (03:36)
because this is going to be an important thing to understand. And so with that said, let's talk about this first question about the idea of resurrection. Does it fulfill a natural longing that we have? Does it make sense in the world? Like, do we all have a natural desire for resurrection or the idea of resurrection already? And I want to unpack that a little bit and just talk about what is resurrection? Resurrection is a reversal of

death. It's a defeat of death. so the question then becomes, do we all have a natural desire to defeat or reverse death? And I think you can look anywhere you want, any culture that you want around the world, and you can see by the way that we are, the way we exist, there's a natural desire to defeat, to delay, to avoid death. We have safety measures in place to avoid death. We have health measures in place to delay death.

Shelley Komoszewski (04:08)
Ooh.

Brock Anderson (04:36)
even though every living thing has a 100 % success rate of dying, we have a fear of death, we recognize death in a very interesting way in our culture, in that we avoid it, we fear it, we delay it, and we see it as an enemy, as something that should be destroyed, something that should be done away with, like it's an invader upon us. And so,

Yeah, it makes sense that that we would desire a way to get around death. But here's the thing that we know is true. No matter what we do in this world, we will never be successful at ultimately delaying death or ultimately avoiding death. It's something we're going to face. And so here's the incredible truth that comes from that. Resurrection is the only possible solution if death is inevitable.

Shelley Komoszewski (05:34)
Interesting, Brock. That's a really interesting way to look at it. Look at how many billions of dollars Hollywood has spent to try to get around this concept. And like, I haven't thought of it in that way. It's a really fresh approach to say, we all know that it's not natural. It shouldn't be, whether it's a pet or a loved one. It's like, this shouldn't, death shouldn't happen.

Brock Anderson (05:59)
Yeah, and according to the Christian worldview, the Christian worldview says, you're right. Death is an enemy. There's a reason why we feel that way. There's a reason why we think that way. And that's because it's true. This innate feeling that we have that death is an enemy, that it should not be here is actually because death is an enemy and that it should not be here. We were actually created to live. And it was only our rebellion and only our sin.

Shelley Komoszewski (06:08)
Yeah.

interesting. Yeah.

Hmm.

Brock Anderson (06:28)
that brought this enemy and this invader into the world. And as has been said, if death is inevitable, then the only solution is resurrection. And so a question then becomes, is that possible? And has that ever happened? Has anybody ever claimed to have been raised from the dead and been able to demonstrate that it's a true claim?

Shelley Komoszewski (06:46)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Anderson (06:58)
And that leads to our second question. And that's why, as we said, we've brought Matthew onto this show because he's an expert on this topic of Jesus has claimed to have been raised from the dead. And Matthew, what reasons do we have to believe that Jesus has been raised from the dead, that that is a true statement, that he has actually defeated death?

Matthew Tingblad (07:22)
Yeah, mean, when I like to think about this question, there's a number of different approaches I've heard people use. I like to start by looking at the historical facts that are generally agreed upon, even the vast majority agreed upon, by scholars who are both Christian and non-Christian. If they have studied Jesus professionally, what kinds of things can we all agree on? And this is a nice starting point because it helps people be like, okay, we can work with these pieces and see what we can build off of that.

rather than just assuming things that only Christians would believe in. So if we look at the data that scholars are generally in agreement upon, that has been compiled by Gary Habermas in some of his past work and also recent work that he did, just showing what this all is. And he has 12 points. I like to stick to just six points, because I think that's sufficient to get the point across. And it's also easy to remember these six points. First, that Jesus died.

Most scholars agree that Jesus really died. Second, after Jesus died, his followers were discouraged. They were confused, they had lost hope. Third, after this happened, Jesus was placed in, well, he was buried, most likely in a private tomb. Fourth, the tomb was found to be empty shortly after Jesus was put into it. And then fifth, the followers of Jesus claimed to have...

had experiences of actual encounters with the risen Jesus. These experiences transformed their lives and they were even willing to die for this belief. And then lastly, the proclamation of the resurrection took place at the very beginning of church history in the very city that watched Jesus die. So those are the six points that we start with. And for some people it might be like, well, how do I remember all these six points? Well, if you know the resurrection story, then it's all in there.

Jesus died, followers are discouraged, tomb is found empty, resurrection appearances, proclamation of the gospel. If you know your Bible decently well enough, then this shouldn't be too hard of a list to remember, because it's all in there. But these are also historical facts that scholars agree on. It's a vast majority, by the way. The only exception to vast majority is the empty tomb, but that's still like 75 % or so. So we can work with that, and then from there, we kind of just put it all together. And what do we get?

The best explanation, I think, for those six points is that God raised Jesus back from the dead.

Brock Anderson (09:53)
Yeah, I think that's great. That's a great overview. And then I do think of the empty tomb and those, if you're saying 25 % of scholars that would say, oh yeah, that tomb may have been empty, but for these reasons instead, or there was no tomb, there was something else had happened. I think of the other explanations outside of the tomb was empty for some other reason.

other than Jesus was raised from the dead and just how lacking those reasons have been or how lacking those reasons are from everything from like the hallucination theory that's been disproven over and and over again. How hallucinations don't happen in groups, they're individuals, they're individual occurrences to things like the disciples stole the body and then lied about it to Jesus survived.

He survived the resurrection and he came to the disciples and he was very badly injured and very much close to death, but was just like, look guys, I made it. And that being like an actual reason that's given for, well, that's why they believed that he was raised from the dead. He survived this incredible beating and torture and they believed, he must be raised from the dead.

Or, you know what, they hallucinated the whole event and then were willing to go to some of the worst deaths imaginable for that hallucination. Or they just lied about it and were willing to go through just incredible persecution and, again, terrible deaths for that. And those explanations just fall far short of what could actually happen based on what we know.

Matthew Tingblad (11:40)
Yeah, I think so. In fact, if we kind of just went through the different alternative theories for a second, that one you mentioned that Jesus never really died, maybe he just passed out on the cross, a couple days later he came to, walked out, appeared to his disciples and all that. And so you have an empty tomb, you have these resurrection appearances. But one thing you mentioned, Brock, is that like, how could Jesus possibly get out of the tomb and make it past the guards and everything else given that he would have been a bloody mess?

Great question, but even if like those types of questions don't even come back to mind, we can just look back at the list because the idea that Jesus never really died just flatly denies the first point on that list, which is that Jesus died. And so it just doesn't account for that. So I mean, some people do that and like, okay, well then you're just going against the majority view of scholars and we can then kind of open that up and look at the points for why we can believe Jesus died, but...

Brock Anderson (12:24)
you

Matthew Tingblad (12:39)
the hopefully that and then we like another another idea that the disciples had hallucinations. You could you could know that hallucinations don't happen in mass groups like that or you could just again look at the list because the hallucinations does not explain the empty tomb. If if the disciples hallucinated and thought they saw Jesus that we still have an empty tomb and right.

Shelley Komoszewski (13:03)
Where is the body? All they

Brock Anderson (13:05)
Where's the body?

Shelley Komoszewski (13:05)
had to

Brock Anderson (13:06)
Yeah.

Shelley Komoszewski (13:06)
do to disprove it. So here's this new faith that is bold and it's taking off. All anybody in Rome had to do is find the body, but the body wasn't findable because the body was no longer there. And so this whole thing, all they had to produce is a body, the missing body.

Matthew Tingblad (13:26)
Exactly. And that's one of the reasons for the empty tomb, which I'm glad you brought that up, Shelley, because again, like that's the least agreed upon, still 75%. But some of the reasons for the empty tomb are good to know about just in case people wonder about that. Another reason for the empty tomb that I like to think about is at the end of Matthew, Matthew has to sort of defend this, or he has to rebut this accusation that is happening against Christians.

Shelley Komoszewski (13:38)
Yeah. And you have, sorry.

Matthew Tingblad (13:56)
that the disciples stole the body. And so Matthew is like, no, no, no, we did not steal the body. He has to argue that in the book of Matthew. Now, a non-Christian might not believe that Matthew is like true history, right? But we have to admit that whoever wrote this thing seemed to have this need to deal with this argument against Christians that the disciples stole the body. Why would that need be there unless there was an actual argument

that the disciples stole the body. And if there was an actual argument that the disciples stole the body, then why would that exist if there wasn't an empty tomb? The fact that people are saying the disciples stole the body implies that there's no body.

Shelley Komoszewski (14:40)
Exactly.

Where is the body? The body is missing.

Brock Anderson (14:42)
Yeah.

And here's where that argument falls apart. Matthew is addressing that argument, and he's alive and well writing in response to that argument. And it's because that's starting to surface among the Pharisees and others. But then the disciples start getting put to death in terrible ways. And the idea of, OK, the gig is up. We stole the body to put forward this faith. Now all of sudden,

they are dying, people that they love are dying and persecution is incredibly difficult the way that they died. And that's when we get to that thing of where nobody dies for what they know to be false. People can die for things that are untrue all the time, but they don't die for things that they know to be false. And so the whole proclamation that...

Hey, let's secretly steal the body and let's say he's raised from the dead. For what benefit? For what benefit would that be? For persecution, for poverty, for rejection, so that nobody will ever believe you, so that your families will be isolated, so that you'll be rejected by the culture that you were raised in? What would be the possible benefit for that, for money? There was no money. For what reason?

Matthew Tingblad (16:09)
Right, so that's the big reason why the theory that the disciples stole the body of Jesus can't be true. Because if the disciples stole the body of Jesus, then they know that it's false. But within those six points we saw that the disciples were willing to die for their faith, and nobody dies for what they know to be false, as you said.

Brock Anderson (16:27)
Yeah,

and the whole and the Jesus died point the first one you talked about I mean the reason why that's such an emphatic claim is that we know He he was he was crucified through through other other references even outside of the Bible That and and that's the way that's the way Romans put put to get put to death Rebels in that time is they put to death through crucifixion and crucifixion has a 100 % rate of success of death nobody

came off a cross and Jesus was not the only person crucified for those who were unaware that this was a practice to where at one point thousands of Christians are crucified, thousands of criminals have been crucified. And here's the one thing they have in common, it killed every single one of them. And yeah, sorry, that was it.

Shelley Komoszewski (17:13)
The other thing I think

that's interesting is the disciples weren't all in agreement. And so I think we can just talk here just for a second. So the women go and find that the tomb is empty. They come back and tell the disciples, Thomas wasn't there. And so the disciples are hearing this. They go back, they're looking for the body. They're scared. It says they are in a private room like.

They're scared, they're talking amongst themselves, what is going on? Thomas isn't there. So they start telling Thomas what they've heard and Thomas for a week doesn't believe them. So even amongst themselves, they're figuring out like, wait, there's not complete harmony. They didn't get together in a room and come up with a story. And then Jesus appears in a locked room. so I guess I'm jumping ahead of the story. Thomas says,

Matthew Tingblad (18:08)
you

Shelley Komoszewski (18:09)
You're not going to make me believe. People don't rise from the dead. Exactly what you said, Brock, earlier. We know people don't rise from the death. That's not how it happened. Thomas doesn't believe and says, what will it take to get me to believe if I can put my fingers in the wounds of Jesus? And then now we're jumping, sorry, spoiler alert a little earlier, but Jesus shows up in the room and let...

Thomas says, what? Thomas is like, high Christology, my Lord and my God. And you know what I love so much about God's kindness in telling that story? Some of the most powerful Christology of someone comes from someone who had doubted and then saw Jesus clearly. And when we see Jesus clearly, everything changes.

And out of his mouth, this one who doubted, it's not, you're not gonna convince me, sees the risen Christ and says, my Lord and my God, what a beautiful way to record scripture. There is a missing body because the resurrection was true. And even the disciples, there's a little bit of tension, which is resolved in the most beautiful way. Sorry, I like that part of the story. Can you tell?

Matthew Tingblad (19:26)
Yeah, it's great. mean,

people go hard sometimes on doubting Thomas. Like you shouldn't doubt. mean, first off, that's not the lesson of the story if you just keep reading a little bit that Jesus is talking about those who have not had the chance to see like Thomas and others. But more so, it's just really interesting that Thomas, the one who doubted, is the first guy who says explicitly, my God.

Shelley Komoszewski (19:49)
Yes!

Matthew Tingblad (19:51)
to Jesus. It was because he was willing to press into these questions harder than anyone else, I think, that he was able to come to such a big conclusion.

Shelley Komoszewski (20:01)
So if you're listening to this, just wanna say if you're listening to this and there's doubts, lean into the evidence. Josh McDowell Ministry has some beautiful resources and on our webpage, www.josh.org, we have some really great references and some evidence that can walk you through some of the ways that you can deeply know and have some answers to your questions.

So this has been a question for over 2000 years and will continue to be a part, but it is a critical aspect of the Christian faith. In fact, the apostle Paul says, if the resurrection didn't happen, our faith is futile. It doesn't stand. It all falls apart on the resurrection. And so this is a really important, important subject. So lean in if you have questions and we're here to help.

Matthew Tingblad (20:55)
So to maybe recap real quick, Jesus died, his followers are discouraged, He's placed in a tomb, the tomb is found empty, you have these resurrection appearances and a proclamation of the gospel at the beginning of church history. What if Jesus never really died? That denies point number one.

What if the disciples hallucinated? Well, that doesn't explain the empty tomb. What if they went to the wrong tomb? That doesn't explain the resurrection appearances. What if they stole the body from the tomb? That doesn't explain why they were willing to die. So all of these different alternative theories that people have, they wind up explaining some of the points, but not all of them. If you just keep all of the points in hand, you can always show that the best explanation is that Jesus really did resurrect from the dead.

Brock Anderson (21:39)
Yeah, let alone we have the Apostle Paul and James as well, who were converted by seeing the resurrected Jesus. And so I know that that's also a common response to the wrong tomb theory as well. It doesn't explain the conversions of other believers that claim to have seen the risen Christ.

Matthew Tingblad (21:45)
Right, their conversions.

Brock Anderson (22:01)
critically important to know that there's good reason to believe that Jesus was raised from the dead, and it answers a need that we all see, and that we all have. We all see the need for resurrection because death is inevitable for everybody on this planet. And so the only way around it

through resurrection. We all recognize it as an enemy. We all recognize it as something that needs to be defeated, and we're all looking for that. That's our hope and our anticipation. Is there someone who can defeat this thing that we see is an enemy and that is invasive and feels like a curse? And the Christian worldview says, because it is a curse. Is there someone who can defeat it? And Jesus says, yes, I have defeated it, and I have left you with ample

Reasons and evidence to see that this is a true statement that it has been defeated And so now we're to that last that last part our last question of what impact does this have on us on our day-to-day life and Shelley?

Shelley Komoszewski (23:05)
So just a reminder, we're the In and For podcast, which is In and For Christ, and In and For Culture. And we believe strongly that when we see Jesus clearly, everything changes. And one of the ways that we see Jesus clearly is looking at our Savior as the risen, reigning, and one day returning King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And so it's one thing to say that, it's another thing to know that.

to know it so deeply that it is part of us. For us to live this boldly in a way that impacts culture means that we need to know more than just the Sunday School version. And we need more than just a five minute devotion to uphold us. Because when the unthinkable happens in our lives, this is the very thing that keeps us steady in the midst of shakeable times.

And so my question for you is when the unthinkable happens, when chaos erupts around you and you can't find your breath, who and where do you turn? In 2021, our 17 year old unexpectedly passed away of a heart arrhythmia. And when your world is shaken, because one thing as Brock said earlier, man, we don't like death at any age.

but especially a healthy, thriving 17 year old. And you're asked with all kinds of questions and your foundation is ripped away from you. Where and what do you claim? And I remember yelling to my savior, Jesus, are you who you said you are? Are you really who scripture says you are? Are you my resurrected Lord? Are you the ruling reigning King of Kings, Lord of Lord? Jesus, are you in sovereign?

control, even now. Do you have her Lord? Do you have me? Because everything I needed, everything I had ever learned about scripture and the deity of Christ, I would need at that moment, but it had to be more than just facts. I desperately needed the convictions of my faith in a way that I had never needed them before. And it would be the Holy Spirit working within me to uphold me.

in the days and months ahead. So when we look at the resurrection and we look at who Jesus is clearly, we have to see him as our risen Lord. Emily's heart arrhythmia, they were able to get a pulse, but there would be no more brain waves. And so for three days in ICU, she would be, and the whole world, it seemed, was praying. And there were so many kids that joined in and

people from all over the globe prayed. And it was three, like I said, three days of intensive care where everybody was praying and the Lord in his kindness and his mercy and his love said, this is my plan for you beloved. I'm bringing her home. And so when you get that call that you know is coming, but it's still really difficult to hear. It's 3 a.m. and I'm up alone pacing and

praying, screaming on the inside to my father. Was the tomb really empty? Because this is where it all comes down. Jesus, did your death and resurrection truly defeat death once and for all? Because if it did, it changes everything. See, everything I knew to be true about the resurrection of Christ, I needed in that moment and more. I needed my convictions to remind me why I could trust that Jesus had truly, once and for all, defeated death.

Holy Spirit, I plead with you to keep me anchored in this because everything around me was giving way. Because Jesus, if the tomb was indeed empty, then we grieve yes. And we grieve deeply because we love deeply. But we grieve differently because we grieve with hope, knowing that death is not the final word. Death on the cross, Jesus paid for our sins. And when the Father raised him,

The resurrection says that sin is paid for. It is finished. It is paid for. And when the Father empowered Jesus to rise again, that's saying once and for all, death is defeated. And so do we know this intellectually, but do we truly know that death is not the final word? Jesus spoke the final word when he died and rose again. It's the very word life for those of us who have placed our faith.

in him. And so I know that as Brock, I loved how you started this out. It kind of just brought it all together that death doesn't make sense. And it shouldn't because we weren't ever designed for this. And so when we feel it deeply, man, this is, this is where we need more than just facts. We just truly need to know this and see Jesus clearly as the risen, reigning and one day returning Savior.

I kind of went on a little bit there. Sorry, Brock.

Brock Anderson (28:29)
None.

No, that's, I mean, that's an extremely powerful story and it's a great thing to go on about. I think we've all experienced death in our lives and that's just an incredibly powerful story of what you all experienced with Emily. And I think all of us have experiences of, I mean, I me watching my...

my mom passed away of just a terrible lung disorder and just looking her in the eyes and having that thought of, of, hate death and I hate that this is a reality. But because I know there is resurrection, because I know death has been defeated, that I'm immediately on the other side of that. When she does exhale for the last time, I know her eyes are opening immediately to look upon the Lord Jesus Christ because of where she put her trust.

And I know that she's immediately taking deep, full breaths in his arms and rejoicing with him. And that's because of the resurrection. So that changes everything about day-to-day life. There are people who experience traumatic losses of loved ones and just never recover because there is no knowledge of resurrection or hope in the return of Jesus.

Shelley Komoszewski (29:52)
Hmm.

Brock Anderson (29:53)
but it's still a longing. They long for, I wish it wasn't true that my loved one died. And I wish it was true that there is resurrection and it is true. And especially in this Easter season, we're on mission to tell other people the truth about resurrection, that there's a reason why we recognize death as an enemy. There's a reason why we have a longing for resurrection because we've been designed

Shelley Komoszewski (30:21)
Hmm.

Brock Anderson (30:23)
to discover the God who is there and that he did send his son and that he did rise from the dead and that we do have hope in him and hope for eternal life through him.

Shelley Komoszewski (30:25)
that's so good.

Amen. Well said. Well said. So Matt, it was a honor and joy to have you on our podcast. I'm not sure if we're going to have a guest every month, but it was a treat to have you on. And we look forward to having you back again. This wraps up our fourth In and For podcast. And so next month, May, drum roll.

Brock Anderson (30:39)
Amen.

There was.

worth.

Shelley Komoszewski (31:03)
that's not a drum roll. That was a trumpet. Anyway, what is our topic, Mr. Brock? Ooh.

Brock Anderson (31:04)
That's not a drum roll.

Matthew Tingblad (31:06)
You

Brock Anderson (31:11)
We are talking about distorted truths in

our culture, places where we seek to find truth and we find instead a sort of truth, which is distorted truth, which brings out an amazing claim that I like to make all the time, which is if something is 99 % true, then it is 100 % false. And we'll talk about what it looks like to experience distorted truths, how to avoid them, how to recognize them.

Shelley Komoszewski (31:21)
Hmm.

Ooh.

Distorted truths.

Brock Anderson (31:40)
and how do we discover truth as it is. And so we'll talk about that a little bit more in the podcast and have some other things that we talk about regarding truth as well. But definitely around distorted truth. Me too.

Shelley Komoszewski (31:51)
I'm looking forward to it. So in

and for Christ, in and for culture, because we want to help you see Jesus clearly. Again, this is Shelley Komarczewski, Brock Anderson and our special guest. Thanks again, Matt Tingblad for joining us and we'll see you guys next time. Thanks.

Matthew Tingblad (32:06)
Absolutely, this was fun.