He Inherited $400K in Debt and Turned It Into an Empire | Gareth Philpott

What happens when your dream career doesn’t work out… and you’re forced to start over?

In this episode, I sit down with Gareth Philpott - entrepreneur, educator, and founder of multiple successful businesses (including The Hair Hair Academy Australia, The Barber Academy Australia, The Crispy Club, and & Barber Academy and The Educator Academy).

Together, we unpack his journey from aspiring professional athlete to building a multi-business empire in the hair, barbering, and education industry.

Throughout his journey, Gareth found himself navigating uncertainty, career pivots, and real-life pressure - eventually turning a simple skill into scalable businesses.

Tune in to discover:

✅How Gareth accidentally got into the hair industry (and built an empire from it)
✅The reality of building multiple businesses at once
✅Why “work smart not hard” isn’t always the answer
✅Lessons from managing hundreds of staff (and making tough decisions)
✅How he built connections with professional athletes & NRL players
✅Why subscription models (like Crispy Club) are the future of business

Key moments:

00:00:00 Intro
00:01:00 Meet Gareth Philpott
00:05:50 Soccer Dreams to Australia
00:11:00 Working at Body Science
00:17:00 The Hard Lessons of Education
00:21:00 Teaching NRL Players Barbering
00:29:00 Making 200 People Redundant at 24
00:41:00 The Origin of Crispy Club
00:49:00 Hustle Culture and Hard Work
00:54:00 The $400K Debt Discovery
01:06:40 How COVID Saved the Business
01:22:00 Tall Poppy Syndrome in Australia
01:26:00 The Pricing Problem in Hair
01:43:50 Advice to His Younger Self

If you’re interested in entrepreneurship, business growth, barbering, hairdressing, or building a brand from scratch - this episode will give you real insights, practical lessons, and a behind-the-scenes look at what it truly takes to succeed.

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👉Connect With Gareth Philpott

https://www.instagram.com/garethphilpott/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gareth-philpott-24343365/

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👉Here’s how to connect:

https://www.instagram.com/tellmeaboutit__podcast
https://iconiccoaching.com.au

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today I'm sitting down with the men to make the legend Gareth Philport, who is the founder of the Heron Barber Academy, Christmas Club, the Educator Academy, the Academy's running for about 10 years now is fucking incredible. We just do all the things.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Basically, I had the dream of being a professional athlete, which, as I'm sitting in now not talking about my sporting career, that did not go too well. I've gone from teacher fitness to then leadership management, then I was leading a team within the first three months. I had to make 200 people redundant. I was 24, I had people who were pregnant, I had people who had cancer, I had to make redundant, and I was like, fuck, if this is what management is, I do not want to do this. The accountant, he goes, You want the good news or the bad news? And I was like, Here we fucking go. I was like, give me the good news. And he goes, Good news is I reckon we can close everything down, and you won't be liable for everything. He was like, Bad news is you got about$400,000 in debt.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

This podcast is being recorded on Gubby Gubby Land. We pay our respects to the traditional custodians of this land, our country, and elders, past and present. I am Kate Muir, and thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Tell Me About It podcast. I'm so excited to have some boy energy in here because honestly, it's been like a stream of girls for the last few months. But today I'm sitting down with the man, the myth, the legend, Gareth Philpot. And if you don't know this man yet, strap in because he's one of those humans that you like quietly build empires but somehow stay like one of the most humble people ever and one of the most down-to-earth people ever. So we are, yeah, we're with Gareth, who is the founder of the Hair and Barber Academy Crispy Club, the Educator Academy. The Academy's have been running for about 10 years now, which is like fucking incredible. But you just do all the things.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

I do do all the things, yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I love it. I love it so much. And I want to, I guess, start somewhere a little bit different today, which is you have built three businesses in an industry that most people fall into because they wanted to do hair, but that wasn't actually your story. That wasn't how you came to be.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Correct. Yeah. I was so basically my mum's been a hairdresser since the age of 17, I believe, and she's 60 was she's 60, 65 this year. So if anybody can slag off the industry, it's my mum, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

But um that's really 50 years, what a legend.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

I know it's actually crazy thinking about it. And it when she listens back to this, she's gonna absolutely rinse me for saying how old she was. But yeah, so she she was very adamant that I was not to go into the hair industry. So mum's been educating for about 30, probably 30 of those years. So yeah, she um she made it very adamant that I was not to go into hair. I think she was a bit worried about the party lifestyle, which I can now um agree with as to why she's gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Yeah, we all look back on that, I think. We're all like, oh well.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah, I was like, yeah, that kind of makes sense now as to why she thought it would be bad news for me, to be honest. Um, so yeah, I basically I had the dream of being a professional athlete, which as I'm sitting here now not talking about my sporting career, that did not go too well. Um but yeah, I uh I I basically my life was sport, it was just like that's all I wanted to do. I think that the very thing I had to fall back on, I always just thought I'd get like a coaching job or something like that, to be honest. I was always kind of the captain. I I seemed to be good at many sports, but not a master at any, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

I was gonna say, what was the actual sport that you wanted? Like what was just anything, just to be a sports. Soccer.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Soccer. I just wanted to soccer was soccer.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

So for an each of you.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I know. So that that was it. Like that was my life. So it's um, and it still is, to be honest. I I love it, and I still kind of think maybe uh maybe there is a flicker of hope there at the age of 36, you know. So no, it it's kind of leaded into what I've done with hair anyway, but I'll talk about that later on. Yeah, I think. Um but yeah, I I basically moved to Australia at the age of 16 and was just like, well, my sporting career is over, so I'll just go into the police, like everybody does back home. Basically, my mum was adamant that I was gonna be a police officer. I don't know why, but she was adamant about going to the police. I know it it's just like she was just so you have to go into the police. So, like my dad worked in the steelworks from the age of 60, and then he retired at 60 in the steelworks. So they're two very completely different people. Um, they're both my best mates, so it was kind of funny. I was getting advice. My my dad's like, stay in one job for the rest of your life. Like, don't you dare like try. Whereas my mum wouldn't stay on a job for 12 months because she'd be headcounted somewhere. It was like, or she'd be like, Oh, we could do this, we could do that. So it's yeah, it sounds like me to him, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I'm just like shiny objects, do this, do that, much like you, and then he's just like stable, consistent, could stay in the same thing for his whole life.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

It's so funny, honestly, because it's like have growing up with the both of them like that, it was so that well, I I know why they got divorced, let's just say that, right? They're best mates, but it was um, yeah, it's just funny how relationships like that it was never gonna work to be honest. I didn't even know where they got together, but there we go. 36 years later, I'm sure. Um, so yeah, it was basically getting into hair was 2015 16. So we don't, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Really like shit.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yeah, so it was.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I mean, we were you 20 because we're the same age, so what you mean, 25 then?

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah, I was 25. Yeah, shit. Which was quite funny because again, my mum was adamant for me not to go into hair, but she actually felt sick, so she got double pneumonia. So my mum's fine now, right? I always tell this story, and people are kind of like, Oh, are you gonna be like so? She made a full recovery. Another reason why my hair's fallen out and I'm going great. But she at the age of 25 decided to get double pneumonia and basically was a mess. She went into hospital, she didn't even know who I was. I've I still got I was actually gonna send you a photo of her in hospital, but she would kill me, right? She wouldn't literally kill me if that got out. But she was the doctors had basically told us to like she's not recovering, so kind of come in there and yeah, so like I'm a massive mummy's boy, right? Like, I've got a tattooed on me, so I've got like mum's boy tattooed on me. So that broke, right? I was messed, I was an absolute mess. So me and my wife Lani had only just started kind of like they did not long after that as well. So it was she's been through everything, which was hilarious, but yeah, that to take my mind off my mum being sick, I started cutting hair. So I was absolutely buttons.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

It's her fault, basically.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

So basically, it is her fault. So it's a full circle as it was her fault. But yeah, we I was just like, you know what? She she was in hospital. The girls in the academy, we were we kind of had like a hairdressing salon and a head academy at the time. I was working full-time somewhere else, I wasn't even in the academies. Mum was just running it, and I thought we were absolutely dripping in money. I was like, I don't even need to be in this. I was like, this is amazing. I've got a college, so we'd worked for RTOs. I've been in RTOs now for 14 years, I think it is. So the previous four years to that, Chief, I'm going down. If I go down a ramp, no, no, no, no, this is great.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

I don't even have to ask the questions, you just go there.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

I know I'm just rambling. I know my coffee's kicked in, yeah. Um so we um we basically we'd been working for other RTOs. That's where I kind of wanted to follow mum and be like uh an educator and a trainer. I love that side of it, like I love that in sport. Um, I loved kind of being a coach and stuff like that. So educating to me was like something which I thought my mum's an amazing educator, like she's unbelievable. She is the best. Yeah, she she is so like she doesn't think she's cool anymore and stuff like this, but she is cool, so she's sensational, right? So my thing was well, if I'll just uh piggy tail off her, to be honest, then piggyback off her and just be like, cool, whatever she goes, I'll just try and follow her. So she got me my first job in education, which was teaching fitness, so it was kind of like a sense of post world.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

What were you in? Because obviously, if we didn't head our sing for that 11 years now, yeah, but what were you doing in Tifes before that?

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Yeah, so that I basically I worked for I've had more jobs than Seek, right? Just so you know, like I was seriously it's crazy. I was like, I've been a ski instructor, I've worked at Bilofruit and Veg. I'm like my range of stills, I am the man to hire, right? So yeah, we uh I was just about to go into the police at the age of 20, I think it was 20. I got I got approved for everything in there. They wanted me to go to Gladstone or something like that, I think it was. And I was like, I was yeah, I was having second thoughts here. I'm like, hang on, is this for me?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

So have you always been in the Goldie since you moved here?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah, since I've been here, right? Gladstone would have been like I know, I know. So they were like, they said, Oh, uh, it's a little bit of a change, but you're gonna do three years there and whatnot. I'm like, little bit of a change. Looking back, I've taught in Gladstone.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Uh a year you could suffer through, I reckon. It's not my type of environment. Like the sunny coast is small enough for me, and it's got 350,000 people here. Like, I you could go and suffer through a year in a place like that, but three years.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

I know, I know, right? So I was like, that was putting me off. So then I found out you have to do 14 days straight, that could be nights included, and it's 55,000 a year. And I was like, hang on, um they're not really selling the dream here, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

So shit he cuts it up with as a police officer, too. Like it's not exactly like you've got to be. I've got one of my best friends from Geelong is a police officer, she's fucking awesome, but she's got the personality for it, and like you, I reckon uh you're too friendly.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

I'd be fucking terrible at it.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I don't think you'd be a counterfucking.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

No, I'd be so I'd just feel like oh that's all right, don't worry about it. I was like, and then that's it. I'd be like, I'm pretty sure he just killed somebody, but he did say he didn't try to, so you know it should be fine. So yeah, yeah, we basically at the age of 19, one of my one of my mates knew the owner of Body Science, uh nutrition company, and was kind of like Greg, who owns body science, who's now my business coach, which is hilarious because it's like social as well. I'm sure Greg will won't mind me saying he made me work my ass off, like for fuck all as well, right? For fuck all. I was looking back on my paychecks and I was like, this prick was paying me minimum wage. I'm like, so if he whenever we go for coffee now, he goes, Oh, I'm pretty sure I should be buying. And I'm like, You're fucking right, you should be buying. I was like, So basically, yeah, body science, obviously, huge company, global company, and I was working in their Queensland shop, so they only had one shop as a company, and I was basically put in charge of it. So it was his dad who had it, and his dad was just like, This kid seems all right, he can run it now. And I was there for two weeks and then got a full-time job with them, right? So the police stream was over, and I was kind of like, Yeah, I know, thank goodness. So I got this job in body science, which I absolutely loved. I worked there for three years. I was dealing with sporting teams, giving them obviously nutrition advice and whatnot. I loved it, it was so good, and especially working in a company like that and being a I wouldn't say alongside Greg, but Greg was looking after me, just learning from somebody like that. I was like, this is cool. I want to kind of venture into more stuff with business and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Um since you're such a failed sports person, I guess community to them was probably really awesome for you, too. Like, like I still get to be with the boys and like still be in that environment, and that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Exactly. And I think they kind of liked it, right? Because I wasn't so much like starstruck or anything because I was just like, I just thought it was cool, you know what I mean? I thought I was just back up.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Obviously, a sports person too, clearly, guys.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Yeah, and I'm like, I could basically play instead of you, but I don't want to because I've got a job here as more. Yeah, yeah, I'll fill in when you short. So basically, yeah, went from there, did three years there, absolutely loved it. And then mum phoned me one day and was like, Hey, there's a trainer job going in our academy as a fitness trainer, right? It's only, I think it was one day a week. Just ask body science if you can kind of do it, right? So Greg was like, 100% do it. I know you want to do something like that. So I went in there, I taught Sir 2 in sports and rec. And I think that the first session was a certain lesson. So we went down the beach all day. I got paid a lot of money to just go down and watch these guys surf. And I was like, This is fucking amazing. I was like, why haven't I done education before? This is great, education's easy. So they obviously liked me, and then I think they realized that I was obviously mum's son, and they were like, Oh, hang on, she is more than likely gonna leave, so we need to kind of butter her up by giving him a full-time job and whatnot, right? So they just went, You've got full-time work, so I had to do my TAE, which will make people sick.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, my husband has been in case the last four years until this year as well. And same thing, he's like, What a fucking boring piece of paper that is 100%, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:19

So later on in my journey, I taught that. I know, right? So I was like, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

So I think Cam's least favorite thing to teach was first aid. He's like, it's just horrific. But then yeah, he was doing all the other things as well. He's like, it's just so fucking boring, like it's so boring.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

It's terrible. Like it's once you've got the qualification, it's a great qualification to have, right? But it was yeah, at the time they were giving them out like we're they were like literally out of a weak big box. It was crazy. I did mine over two weekends, right? Which will piss people off because people have done it over two years, but I just sat down and was like blitz through it. They were just giving them out to everyone.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Hyperfixation, anyway, get that sheet gun.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Exactly, right? So I was like, boom, I had it. They offered me a job. I remember it was 55,000. And I still remember right, and I still remember, I was like, I am fucking loaded. I remember going home and I was like, Mom, this is it, I'll pay off some mortgage, what you got left. I was like, I'm fucking loaded. Yeah, because I'd gone from 22,000 to 55,000. I was like, this is the best I know, which is bottle goods, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

My first apprenticeship was 13,900 a year, my first year. And then I remember I used to take home$254 a week, and my rent was like$80,000 I think back then. Yeah, that was so much money back then, and then you know, I remember going to the petrol station, you had to like stop at 20 because you couldn't afford more than 20.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Those are the best days, those are the best days. Look at it now. I know it's phone cracks you up.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

But I love you're like you've had almost what's that like 150% pay increase from 22 to 55. So you're just like woo-hoo.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

I was like, this is the best thing ever. I went out, bought a brand new car. I was like, I was still in the middle's mom at the time as well. And I'm like, this is the best. I was like, I moved out. I was like, right, I can move out now. I'm a I'm a grown man, I can move out. So yeah, it was it was great. I it was it's funny because now when I look back and now when I'm dealing with money and stuff, I'm kind of like it's hard for me to deal with people who are going like, oh, I want to pay rice and stuff like this. And I'm there thinking in my head. I was like, I did the I'm doing more than what you did. Like back then, I was doing a lot more as a trainer and assessor. I think teaching back then was you had to do everything basically. The the powers above did they were just like, and I still remember my first week they wanted to teach cert three, cert four, and diploma of fitness, and they were like, Hey, we've got 20 students starting in two weeks' time, just so you know, there's no resources, there's no assessments, nothing, like all the best kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Just pushing off the sense seriously.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

I remember phoning mom going, like, hey, they've told me there's no assessments and stuff like that. And she was like, Oh, okay. She was like, you know what you did in your TAE with the writing assessments, you have to do all of that now. So I learned the hard way, don't get me wrong. Exactly, right? So it went from oh, it was madness, it was absolute madness for to come into it like that. Like it was such an eye-opener, but I am so thankful I did it like that and not the easy way of doing it, you know what I mean? Like it's fits, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

I feel exactly the same. And you know, it's really funny. A conversation I was having with one of my clients this week, um, we were talking about like we were creating a budget for her and like trying to work this out. And I was like, you know, people want more money, but they can't even manage the money that they have. And like, don't get me wrong, like, I've been in plenty of sticky situations before. Obviously, I talk very freely about that sort of stuff too. But it's like if you can't literally manage the 70,000, 60,000, 70,000 wage you've got now, and then all of a sudden you're gonna add 10 grand to that or 20 grand to that, or you're gonna get more of it, you also can't manage that either. Exactly. 75% of people who win the lottery go broke because they don't all of a sudden don't know what to do. And I don't know, I just feel like learn to live with it.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yeah, absolutely. I'd blow it all, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Just you know, I feel like I was a better budgeter when I earned 30 grand a year, and that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Like that that is literally what I tell people I was saying.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Listen to what I want to say.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

You know, it's it's crazy, right? Because you know, obviously, you know more than anyone as business, and people are like, Oh, what should I pay myself and stuff like this? I tell them all the time, I was like, pay yourself minimum wage. I was like, literally, because you'll work your fucking ass off, and then when you take out those little bonuses and stuff, it's so much more like rewarding, you know what I mean? Because like we said, they'll blow what comes in in a week, they'll just go like, oh, I could do this or I could do that, instead of being like, Hey, if we hit this target, we get this. It's like makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

We take a draw, like we have like uh like we take a draw now at the end of every call or whatever stuff. We're just like, woo, we just take a little bit over, but and also once my income tax is paid, then I'm like, cool, whatever's there, then that's mine. And then I start again. Like it's like actually so nice to do it that way because it's like, woo, we got a bit of money, we can go do something. That's why we went to the mail dives, like you know, things like that. 100% it's so fucking good. But I love that you recommend kind of going off minimum wage too. I'm sort of the same where I always say to my clients, I'm like, what can you live off though? Like, what can live off? If that's a thousand dollars a week, let's start there. Like, at this point, we need to be reinvesting.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

And that's been one of the biggest things in the company. Like, honestly, that like I've always made sure that mum got paid because obviously she's my business partner and stuff like that. But I I'm so lucky to have Lani as my partner who has put up with me.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Like, seriously, it's uh well I think we're also married to the same person, yeah. No, seriously, like Cam is like consistent, stable, he's happy being at home, he's like, go do whatever you want. Like, if you need to work, work, like anything. And I think if I had two of me, I would die.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Yeah, I'm exactly I'm literally the same.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

I'd be bored to death. I guess. Love him so much.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

U VRA with two of them, surely. The guy's a 10.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

He is, he is, he is. I love that so much. But um funny now, like obviously, I see you posting all the time, you fly about as much as I do, which we love to see. But you have like proximity to sports people all the time now. You're always with like AFL teams, rugby teams. Like, tell me about that. Because again, I guess it's that proximity to sports people, just feeling like you're one of them.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

100%. Like, I will I that is the best part of my job, like easily the best part and the most rewarding part. So the the way I got into that was like pure luck, pure luck is the way I got into that, right? So I had a barber shop that I was working with, and the owner was a player manager.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, cool. That's random.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

It's honestly so random.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

That he wasn't actually a barber.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

So he was a barber as well as a shop owner.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Oh wow, cool.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, so he was just he kind of said to me, he goes, Hey, have you ever thought about doing the NRL clubs? And I was like, No, no, no. And he goes, Oh, they have educational allowance. He said, I've got a player in Sydney, would you go and teach him? And I was like, didn't even think of any financials around this obviously. I was like, Yeah, I'll go and do it. So I went there, met them at the club, and Leon was his name. He was cracking kid. And basically, I walked in there with a full barbecue, and then all of the lads were like. What's he doing? And then they're all called. So they were like, Oh, he's doing the barber course. So we our room was set up literally in the front of their training center. So every single person that walked past was just like, what's that? What's that? So we ended up with six players doing the full-time course there. And it got word of mouth into the NRL. Beck Cook, who's head of League ahead, who's like their player liaison kind of person for the whole of the NRL, she owns an RTO as well. And she was like, Hey, you need to do this for all the clubs. And I was like, I'd love to. So she goes, right, there's the email list, all the best, send it out. And we've done every single NRL club now apart from the Warriors. And well, hopefully, we'll do Melbourne Storm this year. So it's just been wild. So we they they get a government grant. Well, not a government grant, they get funding through their um clubs.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

So we've just utilized that. Once they retire from sports, like is that because a lot of them have kind of gone into sports, I don't really have anything else to go with.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Exactly, because they're so committed to sports at the time. It's like, and do you know the thing which is so fucked up about this? It's like, so I think last year, for example, I think we did the most players in the NRL out of all of like RTOs and stuff like this. The sick, yeah, no, it's it's cool. It's cool when they say stuff like that. I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. So I think we've done over like 150 players now, which is pretty cool. Um yeah, it's awesome, but it's it's also like hearing their stories on RTOs as well, like not hair and barber ones, but just RTOs in general. And it's like there's zero flexibility. There's and don't get me wrong, I know flexibility fucks the business, right? It does it with ours. Like, if we weren't so flexible, we wouldn't, and that's why people like us. It's because we're flexible, but it's a terrible business um kind of model, you know what I mean? But we we cop it.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

I mean, like obviously, like I'm strong on boundaries and things like that too, but in the same way, I work business to business, I work with business people. If they need to call me at 10 p.m., just call me. I don't fucking care. Like, you know, like you have to have somewhat of like leniency for certain things, and I think that's a really important thing to do too, because you're like, well, they're obviously so committed, they have so much of their sports commitments, you're kind of the add-on to that.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

You kind of have to move around them a little bit, 100%, and they're so respectful, right? They're like they're fucking unreal to teach because like what I tell everyone, because everybody goes, Oh, footy boys, they'd be fucking wankers. And I'm like, it's actually the opposite because they're being taught set plays and stuff every single day. When you go in there and teach them, they're like that, they pick it up straight away, they're like, Yep, bump bum bum bump. Whereas we're teaching people at the moment, for example, who may not have learned anything in the last 10 years, yeah, 100%, right? Yeah, creatives. I know that's a to put it as a nice term.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I love hate them.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yes, exactly. Oh, geez, creatives, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

That is so fucking funny. So the Hair and Barber Academy is with your mum, and they came first.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Yes, so we had the Hair Academy came first, so that was that used to be called the Lysian Institute in 2015. Wow, so that's when that started. No, I know, right? So hence why I wasn't in the business then, right? So I was basically I was like a silent partner. Um, and I wanted it to be that way because I thought man was on the road to retirement early. I thought, brilliant, and all of that. Jazz, we had a couple of trainers, it was great. We were only doing hairdressing. We also had childcare as well, which we still had.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

That's hang on, stop with that for a second. Oh fucking cool. So people can come in and study and drop their kids off.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

No, not that much. That is in we actually had a childcare course, yeah. Jeez, that's definitely not a good idea. That comes back right off.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Maybe you can get the students to take care of the kids.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

I was gonna okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

So, yeah, you've got childcare as well. Weird.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Yeah, so we've got childcare on scope. Obviously, I don't really brag about that one because I have no fucking idea about childcare.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Um childcare work would be the I reckon that would be up there with the hardest work. I don't think anyone fucking says I would rather do bricklaying.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

I'm honestly taking we uh love our nephews so much, we spend like four hours with them, and I'm fucked. I'm so tired.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

It's the best thing, right? To just go, there you go, all the best. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

I think I don't think they get paid well enough. I don't think they get enough respect for what they do. I think that would be one of the hardest fucking jobs on the planet.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Oh, absolutely. I say it all the time, and it's so hard speaking to the students because obviously they they know it's just that they kind of did a course in school or whatever, they're stuck in there, and they're just like there's no other option. So, but yeah, that we so we we've had childcare for the last 10 years as well, which is hilarious. The Barber Academy started in 2017, I think it was. So 2017, we started that. That's when mum got sick.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

So was that also sorry to cut you off there. Was that also kind of the time where the hairdressing and barbering apprenticeships became separated, though? Because that was when I opened my barber shop. I started building it late 2017 because I had staff that wanted to transition into barbering rather than doing hairdressing. So that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

It was actually the perfect time, right? It was so like funny because obviously, as I said, I was not involved in the business at all, right? Like I wouldn't even know what the numbers were, nothing. I was so oblivious to it. Um, I was working for an RTO. I'd then gone from teaching fitness to then leadership management, then I was leading the team. So I had about at the time, I think I had about 500 trainers I was looking after. So I'd kind of just again probably the work ethic which I got from you.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Also, didn't have time to be involved in a by the science point literally for trainers.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

I know. So it was I was working for a huge RTO like who's Australia and New Zealand wide. They had basically shitloads of funding. I mean, they were doing trillions, trillions. So that was when the good days of RTOs, which were just like they were just giving money out left, right, and center. So yeah, I kind of learned the hard way there. That I moved to the Sunshine Coast for nine months there to Markula.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

In my oh, that's a nice little spot there, nice little pocket, all the little beach.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

So I had a three-level house there, living on my own, and then my mate moved in, and I thought I was the shit. I was I was in it a lot of money, driving a range over. I still had the accent here, still had the accent, I was fit, I was playing football, so yeah, it was it was good times. The house times have changed. So yeah, it was I absolutely loved it, but then this position came up for the um to kind of look after all of the trainers and stuff. So this RTO ended up basically the last 12 months of the RTO funding kind of started to get cut and whatnot because the government was kind of like, hang on, these people are making absolutely trillions here, and they're getting three laptops, and nobody's kind of getting any progression. So my kind of lead lead into management, I suppose it was, was that role. And yeah, I within the first three months I had to make 200 people redundant. So I was 24, I had to yeah, I had people who were pregnant, I had people who had cancer, uh make redundant. So I really um I took the whole management thing really hard to be honest, and I was like, fuck, if this is what management is, I do not want to do this. So it kind of sucks. Yeah, so it was basically it got to the point, right? So we had a we had this huge kind of like warehouse in Eagleby, I suppose, warehouse is what I'd call it, where we'd have hot desks and whatnot, and this guy would come around and just tap him on the shoulder. I'd have to watch him do it, and then I'd just go, hey, whoever got tapped on the shoulder, come out the front, and I'd just have to go, yeah, sorry, all the best. So yeah, I had little HR with me.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Probably doing it all in one fell sweep was probably a bit easier than having individual conversations.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

100%, 100%. And that that was the thing. What then happened was to get from that 200 or 300, which was left over, we have to get that down to like 50. So then it was like, right, it's on you now to pick which one. So this is fucking madness, right? Thinking back. But we used to have obviously ridiculous KPIs, and it would be the end of the week if you didn't hit that, they'd just be like, all the best, and I just have to tap somebody on the back and do a redundant, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:47

So yeah, it's 1850 though, is like huge, so you kind of have to be like super tough on it as bad as it is. It's a shame they weren't measuring them on like who were the better people, or you know, like in terms of like who they were as people, you know what I mean. At the end of the day, it's just completely KPI driven, K 6.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Even their KPIs, right? Even their KPIs, which is fucking madness thinking about it, wasn't even like cool for the year, it was like that week. So if you had a shit week with students, you were like, I'm gone. So they were, and everyone knew it would be like you'd have people calling in sick and stuff like that. And then it was like, Yeah, they're calling in sick because they know you'd be like, No, you like yeah, no, no, you have to be in for the time, yeah. You have to be here. So there's I I know my mother always says it, but she's like, There was a point in your life where I think you just turn to like like angry, and that did make me really angry. Like, I do have I'll be honest, I have massive anger issues, hence why I try not to play golf too much because I smash all my clubs, but it's I think that to me was like I really felt like that wasn't fair on me. Like, and I think at the age of 24, having to do that to people, and that a lot of them took that personally towards me, and then I made that decision, and it was that was fucked, and that that to learn that kind of way, I was so then like I don't know if ruthless is the right term, but I just didn't trust anyone, so it was so hard for me to then kind of yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

I mean, I I relate, I'm reactive as fuck. Like, obviously, like I've got ADHD, so I can be crazy sometimes, but you know, it's pretty well managed now. Also, I'm not a cunt, but yeah, um, you know, like I I know that in myself as well that I can be like that too. So, like, what are your methods for staying not angry? I'm interested.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

This was not in the questions, but now I'm keen. This is not this was not in the question.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Breathe. Um no, I think I'll be honest, my emotional support dog, Spad, he's probably my um the biggest one. Like, seriously. So when this is so bad, and I really hope mum doesn't listen to this, but when we have like me and mum argue a lot, right? And I'm trying to work on it because it's just ruined our relationship. She's not fiery, it's just more she's she thinks she's trying to help. I'm thinking I'm trying to help, and then it's just like this button heads all the time, right? So for us to have a meeting, I have to have Spud with me, right? So it's like so I don't go over the top. Yeah, seriously, right? It's like um Austin Powers, you know, and he's like streaking the gap. That's me with Spud. So it's it's a big one. I struggle with it massively, and I tell people that because I bottle it up. I suppose instead of going like when something does go wrong for me to address it properly and be like, hey, we need to do X, Y, and Z. I will then just exactly like what you said at the start, I'll go, yeah, that's all good, no problem, we'll fix it. And then I go home and go, What the fuck? And then I'm like, what the fuck just happened there? So I that's probably the biggest thing which I'm trying to work on at the moment. Yeah, um, is that I'm I don't think anybody would see it, to be honest, apart from my close circle, which is I don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

I'm like, I want to just communicate now, and I think something that really frustrates me is when people don't communicate back. Like, I'll go straight to the source and I'll go straight to the person and I'll have that conversation, and then other people might like not want to talk about it or not open up about it, or something like that. And that frustrates me because I'm like, just tell me, like, you're not gonna hurt my feelings. I'm a big girl, like if you're hundred percent. Just say what you need to say, but definitely um that was something that Cam and I had to work on because he can be quite quick to flip a switch as well. And I remember when we first got together, you could fight over like the stupid shit, just random shit. And so something we both had to learn was like take five minutes separate, then come back together and talk like adults rather than yell at each other.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

I know it is, it's like I'm very lucky. Like Lani wouldn't hurt a fly, right? And literally, because she would camp. She'd rather save a fly than myself, so it's yeah, it it's I'm very lucky with that. I think if I had somebody else who had that kind of fire, I'd be fucked, to be honest. So yeah, that sorry, I should go back to what you were actually saying about dealing with it. Yeah, my my probably my biggest thing, I honestly think, is cutting hair. When I cut hair, I don't think about anything else, right? Yep, and I'm just like, and that would that goes back to why I started cutting hair. So it was just like that was my kind of like escape, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

So I'm not yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

So it was just that like I love cooking, and I always tell people it's like you know when people go, Oh, I cook to like yeah, so it's it's kind of like that's my little escape.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

I burn toast, I burn everything. I make I make bacon and eggs on the weekend. Every weekend we always have bacon eggs, and I make that, but from does everything else, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

It's so good. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

That's how it's, and I'm not even allowed in the kitchen when he's cooking.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

So he's gone from a 10 to a 12 now. Yeah, so uh yeah, Lani's the same, right? I do not let Lani in the kitchen. I was like, Hey, this is please don't come with me. Yeah, she said she said to me, uh, you a laugh at this. She said to me yesterday, we were having dinner, and she's like, Oh, that's the last two nights I've cooked now. And I was like, I went, I said, the first night you heated up leftover vegetas. I was like, This night you've just put a chicken bake in the oven. I was like, Don't you fucking dare say to me you've cooked for me twice.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

So she cooked more than me, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Seriously, the first time she ever cooked for me, right? Was we just started dating and I had an apartment in Burley, and she's like, I'll come over and cook for you and stuff like this. Reese, her brother-in-law, is um he's one of my good mates now, and he said all the time they were like, Lani, don't go over and cook. They were like, Don't you can't cook, don't go over there, you're gonna like ruin this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Did you have a control issue about that being like, No, I want to cook for you because like I'm a better cook, like I know I can actually cook. Like 100%.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

I do it all the time, and she's thinking that she's like relieving stress off me. I was like, that is added so much more stress to me, thinking we're gonna burn our house down. I was like, seriously, I know, and I was like, and then I'm just gonna have to end up cooking anyway, you know what I mean? So it was um she came to your apartment to cook for you.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

You're already laughing, I can't wait.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

So she's like, she's done these like in the bakery, you can get like these chicken like wrap scroll things, right? That and they're unreal. And she was like, I'll make this with some chips, blah blah blah, and stuff like that, right? So for what I don't eat salad, right? I'm the most unhealthiest guy in the scale. You freaking hate salad.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Yes, hate salad. The only thing veggie eats is sweet potato, pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

So I'm literally the same, right? That probably the only greens I'll eat. I'll eat spinach if they're in something, like cooked. We would too, yeah. And broccoli or broccolini. I broccoli, I've gone off a lot, but broccolini I can cook if it's like covered in butter and stuff like this. I'll be all right with it.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

It doesn't actually taste like broccoli, it tastes like fucking beautiful butter. Yeah, perfect, correct.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Correct, big man style of it. There has to, yeah, no, seriously, right? So, and still me and Cam are obviously tens and bodies of temple as well, so it can't be that bad, you know. Um she's she's come over, she's made like this lovely salad and stuff like that. I was like, Oh, look, I don't eat salad. I was like, So she goes, Oh, it's right, I have the chicken and the chips, right? Which is my diet. So she's pulled out this chicken and it was like burnt on top. So it was like, well, at least it's not raw, right? So I've cut into it and this thing's still clucking. It was like it was so pink, and she's like, Oh, um, I think it's it's so ever since she's blamed my oven in the house, right? And I'm like, no, Lani, it's not the oven, it's just you can talk to shit. So I think she just put the grill on instead of the oven, personally.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Oh, I'd have just cooked the top. You know, the when Cam first we did long distance for a long time before we moved to Queensland, and he came up to me once. I was like, Oh, I want to make this like savory mince thing that I used to have when I was a kid, and I was like, it'll be so good. It's like a like it just a savory pasta thing, anyways. I swear to fucking god, I like the pasta was like mush and the the sauce was like burnt, it was stuck to the bottom of the thing. And poor Cam sat through it and ate half of it, and then we put the rest of it in the fridge. He's like, Oh, we'll eat that over the rest of the week. It didn't get eaten.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Yeah, I love that. That's the best uh I'll take that for lunch tomorrow. And then, like, as I'm walking about the house, I'm like that boom, straight in the bin.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah, so after that, I think he was just like, Okay, I think I think cooking will be one of my jobs.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yeah, I love that. Yes, that's on my list. Uh, we have a good agreement where it's like I'll I'll help out with cleaning as much as possible. But Lani is like the queen of cleaning, so I'm like, cool, I'll put you clean, perfect, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Wow, and you've got your beautiful new house now, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

I do, yeah. So it's there's more stuff to clean now, which is a nightmare. So I'm like, time where I normally do work, I've got a bloody clean.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

So the housekeeper, you peasant.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

I know, I literally I said that to Lani. I was like, I said, we need somebody in here. I was like, we definitely need it. So especially with this guy who just leaves hair everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

We would have when we're in our apartment, we would have one every fortnight, maybe every month. But now Kelsey comes Tuesday morning, fucking champion. Absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

That's sick.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

I'm like, what she does in three hours would take me like eight because I lose interest and then I do something else. I'm like, I could just work for the three hours that she's doing this, and I do.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Absolutely. No, I did. I said the same thing. I was like, because I don't want other weekends to be fucking clean and all the time. I was like, that's one thing I was like, new a hundred, a hundred.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Anyways, we love a bloody tangent, but so we've got something here at Bonford Academy. Oh my god, no, it's fine, and then no, don't don't ever say sorry, please. I love it. I love just letting the conversation flow, it's good. But crispy club, which we love. What okay, I love this because I was like, we were in the Maldives, I think, and Ken was like, Why did you call it Crispy Club? I'm like, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

And then I asked you so crispy club, right? So my business partner, Jace Albin, who is my best mate, he was our MC at the wedding. He he created Crispy Club in 2022, right? So I kind of jumped into Crispy Club. He I I remember asking him, I was like, why the fuck did you call it crispy club? Like, what what went through your head to call it crispy, right? So he always, always, always used to just be like, That's so crispy, that's so crispy, like oh, that's crispy ads. Like is then like instead of good, it was crispy, right? And then one of his clients goes, Yeah, I love it. He's like, crispy is the best word ever. So we just started saying crispy, crispy, crispy, right? So Jace was an ex-professional tennis player, so same thing, we got the sport thing.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Uh yeah, your projectivity to sports people is actually wild for someone who's you know, it's weird. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

I'm so lucky, I'm very lucky, right? But he basically he just pictures he went, Well, let's just call it Crispy Club, because like club is in sports, welcome to the club and stuff like this. So it was like that tennis club where you'd be a little bit more upper class and stuff like this, but you could still have it like golf club, all of this stuff, right? So uh crispy was his like uh love child. So he he created a product which was made in the central coast called the threesome. So the threesome was a beard oil, face moisturizer, and a shaving oil as well, right? It was the best thing I've ever smelt in my life, like it's incredible. This product. We've stopped doing it now because I think people are just like they're not so much like that anymore, so we just stopped doing it. But if it all started from there, so he went out on a limb. He's very for anybody that knows Jace, he is so high-end and bougie, it's ridiculous, right? But he will tell you he's not, but he is. He was so basically he he built it off ASOP. So ASOP, he his whole bathroom is full of ASOP stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:21

So he was kind of buyer brand, is like if when I think of like luxury branding, my brain actually goes there because it's like understated, and their shops are incredible.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

It's like a it's like moving into a different world when you go into 100%, 100%, and that was his biggest thing, right? He just wanted it to be like, wow, this is incredible. And for people, like the smell of it, honestly, I have to find one for you and I'll send it to you. It was it would be about four years out of it, out of um out of date, but we still have people who go like, Oh, I'm still using it. And I was like, Oh my god, your face is gonna melt off.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Um It was one a long time ago, Joel.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

No, seriously. I was like, you need to get rid of that. But it it was it it was a late, it was the best product, right? So my mum used to use it in her hair, and she was like, This is the best product I've ever used, right? So the company in the Sunshine Coast were just like, hey, we now the minimums are just like bananas, so we stopped doing it. So we started then moving into a sea salt spray and a matte clay. We had a lot more products than that.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

And I was just like my husband quite literally eats your matte clay. I think he goes through it.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

I just sent it out again for a subscription.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

He loves that you send him beard oils.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Yeah, I know. I love that. Just a little freebie, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Just a little bunch of beard, yeah. It's good.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Yeah, exactly. Well, that that's where it was kind of like, I mean, my biggest thing was I thought there was a huge market for wives and partners to just be like, I'm sick of you using my shit, and I'm also sick of looking at that on our kind of bastard of so the reason why we kind of designed it the way we did was so, for example, the sea salt spray, your partner would go, Oh, I can use that, and also they would go, that actually looks fine there, because as we know, as lads, normally we just leave everything fucking out. So there's a cold gate there, there's gel there, this and this and this. We just wanted it to look really nice and neat there, you know what I mean? Aesthetic, exactly, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:28

So it was especially since like everyone lives in a fucking display home now.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Well, and literally that is it, right? So I uh this isn't me slagging off products or anything like that, but I think it's very fucking they look like they deserve to be in a barber shop, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

So so fun story about this. My friend and I spend$29 on toothpaste because it looks good in the bathrooms. It's$29. I don't fucking care. It's a tube and it's mint green and it looks really good in my green bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

100%. That's what it's about.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

But I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Yeah, exactly. And that that's that was our biggest thing. He's exactly the same, right? So he's his fucking skincare routine. You can tell I don't have one because of the bags under my fucking eyes, but his skincare routine is phenomenal, right? Like it shits all over most people. But his stuff when he whenever we go away, because he comes and teaches the NRL boys with me and stuff like that. Um, the bathroom, he'll line up everything in the bathroom, and I always go like fuck that does look cool. I would almost buy that because of how good it looks, you know what I mean. So that that was the biggest reason why we did it. Like, if we can help our barbershops, brilliant. But our biggest thing was I couldn't see somebody like Cam going, I'm gonna walk into a barbershop just for that product, you know what I mean? And that was the biggest thing. A lot of the time when people are going for haircuts, they're like, I've already got product, but then a week later they're like, Fuck, I've run out of product. So yeah, we just won't want it to be direct to consumer, hence the subscription as well, to just be like sorry, that's what I was gonna talk about too, which is so fucking smart now.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Because my husband has underwear on subscription, he loves it. Like it's just like just in how people live now, we're busy, we're doing things all the time. Even people who don't have businesses are fucking busy all the time. Everyone's bloody working, and you know, the last thing you want to think about is like getting your hair wax or getting your hair product or something like that. So the membership model is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

It's it's so funny, right? Because that was one of the biggest things where I was like, I don't even know if people will do this, and like we'll still offer it, but I don't know if people will do it. The amount of partners and wives who buy that for their partner is fucking bananas. Like to just go, like, hey, stop you winging. I've put it on subscription, it's there, like it's done, sweet. It'll be there, it'll just arrive every six weeks, it's there, perfect. So yeah, yeah, it's um, it's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

It's one of those things, it's like, you know, can we do like put the bins out and do the lawns and just take care of that shit so I don't have to think? But it's like he will never buy a hair product, he will never like like I always have to do that for you, but that's fine. Like, that's just kind of part of how the mental balance works. But as soon as I saw that that came out, I was like, fuck yes. Now I don't have to think, you know, I just get you two little waxes every two months, so good exactly, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Exactly. And like what you said, he eats it, so it's great.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

So he eats it. That dinosaur hair fucking hell. I love it. It's good, it's good. Look, you've mentioned, I think we have pretty similar opinions on this, but you've mentioned you've been working like 90 plus hour weeks, and I guess do you like what's what's your opinion on hustle culture, and like what's your opinion on doing that? And like, do you think it's just for seasons? And do you think it's bullshit? Like, tell me everything because you're one of the hardest working people I know.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

So okay, so um where should we start off here? There's you know the whole uh like the work smarter, not harder, and stuff like that. I like I just think it's absolute horseshit, to be honest. Because I mean you should be doing both, shouldn't you? Work hard and work smart, you know what I mean? It's like it's not one of the other, it's fucking both, like, and even if you did do I I think it can be a little bit hard with the the hours, right? I there's one thing that fucking winds me up and it kills me, right? Is people on Instagram and they put like enders of week and then they put like 76 hours, and I was like, fuck me, what are you doing? Like, why why do you need to prove that to people that you're doing 76 hours? You know what I mean? Like, even if they did 10 hours, but they worked their fucking ass off, that's brilliant. You know what I mean? Like, like that's my kind of argument to it. It's like yeah, because they everyone goes, Oh, you work hard, and I'm like, Yeah, it's my fucking business. Of course I work hard. What do you want me to do? It's it's it's honestly, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

I think that it's funny. I did a whole podcast episode on this of like being like, you know, the really the business owners who really like that's their calling, that's what they do. Like, your work blends into your life, like it's a work-life blend, it's not a work-life balance. Like sometimes I just have to jump online. Last night I had to get some printing out, so I stayed up till 1 a.m. Like, there was just stuff that you just have to do sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

100%.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

And like you have to let that happen in the same way. I also think that you should be able to build your business to a point where it doesn't need you to be in it every moment, every day. And I think that's the balance that, like, all the um work smarter, not harder that I believe in. It's like basically when I used to go into my salon and work, all my staff paid for everything, and whatever I made, I paid myself. Like it was so good. But like, you need to build a business and work towards having a business that if you're sick, if something happens, if something happens, like what happened to your mum, yeah, exactly. It's not going to completely fall apart.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

100%. And I think that is literally the biggest thing. Because I I think a lot of people are too, I don't know, scared is the correct word, but they're a little bit worried about stepping away from it or letting somebody else do it. I think that's probably the the biggest thing in here. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

They don't really have to, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

They they don't, and it's like the the trust issues there. Like I I've obviously got PTSD from when I was younger in business, so that that's why I have massive trust issues. But I have to, in order for us to grow, I have to pass that on to my team, you know what I mean? So I think that's a big one, and I think a lot of people are like, Oh, if you don't have a team, you'll just get all the money.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

And it's like I don't know if it works out. I hope you make more money because I have a team. Could you imagine if I was doing I've got you know, it's even like Laws who works for me, has been with me eight years this month, and she started coordinating my salon. Then she went on to manage my barbershop, like from the back end, and then she's coming. She when I sold that, she was like, Oh, I want to stay with you though. So she came with me and she does like all my money and chases all my payments and does all of that. And do you know how scary that was to let someone see my bank accounts and like let someone pay all my bills? Now I could not think of anything worse than the 15 hours she spends doing that every week. I think that would be the bane of my existence, and I also think 15 hours, that's like 15 clients I could see.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Yeah, well, that's it, right? And that was a big thing for me to do, right? Was and I know obviously, this is why I believe coaching is such a fucking huge thing for business. Like I I nobody coached me when I was younger, right? I just fucking winged it, like it's crazy. And that's what I mean. It's like I tell everyone because people go, like, oh, what do you think I should do here? And I was like, But you know what? I did fucking do the opposite, like it's absolutely crazy. Like, we're probably one of the only businesses which I know, like COVID literally kept us in business. Well, like when everybody goes, Oh, COVID was the worst thing ever. Like, COVID made us go, hey, fucking wake up and fix your business.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

So I think it I think if you didn't have that realization during that time, I think that was pretty like you didn't really like lean in and take it with it. Like, I got rid of my commercial office, like I did so many other things. I was like, why the fuck am I spending 25 grand a year on a fucking commercial office for all my staff and we can all just work remotely?

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

But it also like it ruined Cam. He had a gym, he went from like 150 members to 30 and just never recovered. Like when I met him, he was just a shell. But I think it also made him look at like other strategies too, like going online and doing other things. And is this really what he wants to do? But for you, fixing everything in the background is pretty fucking cool.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Well, I still remember, right? My one of my good mates, Peter Ben, is an accountant, and we we'd had an accountant previously. This would be my best fucking advice. Get a good accountant. Um, so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

You know, wait, I'm gonna stop there for a second because I feel like this year, especially, the amount of conversations I've had with new clients that are like, oh, my accountant just didn't do my best properly for the last six years. My person didn't lodge super for two years. I had it happen once where my bloody bookkeeper was putting the super through on the payslips and then not logging it with the super clearing house, and you used to have to do it that way. And I got 18 months behind. I didn't find out until a staff member left. And I'm like, oh my god, I've got so much money. This is so great. Like, let's do a de sellon, let's blah blah blah. Get a good fucking accountant. My man's like the most creative human ever, and I love him. I love him.

SPEAKER_02 54:47

Honestly, like so to get I'll scroll back in time here, right? When I started jumping into the business, so obviously, mum was in the hospital and I just started cutting hair, and I'd go in there and go, like, oh look, I did a haircut. She again would be so spaced out because of the drug she was on, but she'd be crying, going like I'm following after you and stuff like this. And I'm like, Oh, not really, that's pretty fucking bad haircut. But it was great, right? I was just like venting to my mates who had no idea I was venting. I had no idea I was venting, so it was great. I was just like fucking splurging out, which is hilarious, you know. When people go like, Oh, us barbers, we cop all the shit, and I'm like, Yeah, a lot of clients cop shit as well, to be honest. So I've heard some barbers say some fucked up things, and it's the same as hairdressers, you know what I mean? So it works both ways. We can't just always slag off the clients, it goes both ways, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:40

I actually cringe when I see that stuff. I think there's you've got prospects that are watching that.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

I know.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

And you need to be a little bit conscious of your delivery sometimes to like yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

What what just happened to just cutting the hair? What like you know what I mean? It's like just having a chat with someone, like it's fucking sweet. It yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

I think sometimes like two people don't realize so social media reels go to non-followers first, and social media carousels go to followers first. So if you're putting out a reel there about some pain in the ass client or something like that that you've had, there's non-followers that are seeing that. That would put the most bitter taste in my mouth.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

100%. It's yeah, I uh it's it's hard, right? Because a lot of the time it's clickbait as well that they want to be like, and then people come in and go, Oh, yeah, you fucking I got the same client, they're fucking shit and stuff like this.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

And I'm like, look, if I like hairdressers too, like you're appealing to other business owners and other professionals, you're not actually talking to the client. Where the fuck do people in NPS?

SPEAKER_02 56:48

100%, and I say it all the time. I was like, I said, like, if you think every single client that I cut, I fucking love, then it's the best thing in my life. I was like, you're dreaming. I was like, I do haircuts, and I was like, fuck me. Like, I'll I'll be like, oh no, so and so's coming in next, but then it will be the best thing ever, you know what I mean? I'll just say I won't tell them that, yeah. Um, but it might just be like they do they do something with with their hair, for example, that I'm like, oh fuck, I like I really wish they didn't do that, but they're so adamant about doing it that I'll do it, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:22

Yeah, you're my walking skillboard. No, well, thanks for that.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

And that's exactly right. That is literally it, right? And I this is what I was trying to tell. I was students. I was like, when they're walking around, they're going, like, look at your hair, and you're going like, Oh fuck, please tell me they like it. And they go, Oh, yeah, sweet. You know what I mean? So, yes, good times. So I started cutting hair anyway, and butchering people, took it into madam, and she was like, Yeah, crying her eyes out and whatnot. She goes, I think you should enroll in a course. So, RTOs, there's TAFE, which is by the government, and then we've got private RTOs, which is ourself, right? So, we we are privately owned, we have to get all of the funding, blah blah blah, and stuff like this. Whereas TAFE just gets it from the government. So I was like, I'm gonna do a barber course. I was working full-time for somebody else, and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do a barber course. So I went in to TAFE Ashmore, I think it was. Yep, and I was like, Hey, I want to enroll in the barber course. And they were like, How old are you? And I was like, I'm 25, and they went, You're too old. And I was like, Right, okay. Actually, for the full-time course, but they didn't offer the full-time course.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

So they were they were only offering apprenticeships. Um so that obviously as an apprentice, they were like, Well, you'd be a mature age apprentice, no barbershops will ever take you out. So basically, I'd gone in there within 15 minutes of thinking I'm gonna be the next shittest hot barber to being told my fucking dream was over. So I went in to see ma'am and I was like, the hair dream's over, ma'am. I was like, all the best, I'm going back to the RTO world, I'll just go and do compliance or whatever. And yeah, I went back in there the following week then to see her, and she had put on her scope, the Barber Academy, she'd created the Barber Academy Australia, she put us as a business name, ABN. She'd done a website, logo, everything, and she was just basically like, Oh, well, this is my will to you, because again, they were still touch and go at the time. So she was like, I can't give you money, so here's the business. So I know, so it was pretty nuts as to how we started the Barber Academy. So I actually learned through our own academy. Without the Barber Academy, I would not be a barber.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

I um I I love it's like when um apprentices buy salons and then have to hire someone to train them in their apprenticeship and stuff, but I kind of love it. I'm like, it's so good.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

It's 100%.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

It was anyway.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

It's a it's a mad story, right? It's a mad, mad story. But it I was so lucky. The trainers there at the time were so obviously they knew what was going on with mum and whatnot, so they were awesome with me. I'm very patient. Emily, who's one of the who was working in the salon which we had is now one of our trainers for hairdressing. So it's been a full 360 moment. We were telling our apprentices last week. I was like, fuck, I remember like Emily cut my hair and she's like, You should do barbering. And I was like, fuck that. I was like, I don't want to do barbering fucking like I just had no interest in it, and then yeah, it basically took off from there. So we our first year 2017, our whole year, we did two barber students. One of them, one of them paid for the course, Danny, who is he owns home-based salon.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

So if you've ever seen the portal, yes, we follow each other, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

So Danny's a Danny and Beck uh the two owners, Danny's fucking amazing, right? And he was so good for us when we started looking back now. You know what I mean? When you look back and think about how good he was, but at the time you didn't realize it. He I remember him coming to me and going, Hey, I've got to do a shipment order, I'm not gonna be able to pay for this course. And I was like, Shit, okay, what do I do as a business owner here? I was like, I don't know what the fuck to do. I was like, and he goes, Look, what I can do, I've got these amazing cabinets, which are like barber stations. Yeah, he said they're worth two grand, I'll give you five of them. And I was like, deal, that sounds like a great business idea. Um, so I love bartering like that. It was fucking unreal because what he'd done is he put a speaker inside. I love music, right? So he'd put a speaker inside of them and lights, so you could just plug in like Bluetooth and it would fucking pump music. And I was like, This is the best thing ever. That's fucking cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

Why haven't you heard of this?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

I know, right? So he they stopped doing them and then they just went on to um basins, but they were fucking amazing, they were on wheels, so you could take them anywhere. Like it was so good. So he paid for his course like this. Yeah, he honestly they are unbelievable. Like, that would be my if anybody's looking to do something. I wish I'd done that instead of paid for the plumbing in my academies. Let's just say that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

Um I think my I think my electrical, I think my electrician was the most expensive at about 27 or 28,000 or something like that. And the plumbing was not far behind.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:21

It is fucked, seriously. It is it's a little stuff like that, which obviously you learn along the way, then you to just go what the hell does it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:29

Well, you learn once you've already signed the lease and rip the walls down, and then you're like, Oh, yeah, oh shit, that's what they meant.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

So, and then the other student who did it with us just could not make payments, so we we qualified them, and I would have made zero from it, which was hilarious. And then the next year we did I think it was 150 students. Whoa, the barbecue just went absolutely bonkers. So it it was crazy times. I mean, when we had the two students as well, that was just before COVID. And sorry, going back to what I was saying about accounting. I had just when mum was in hospital, I'd asked for our zero, which I had no idea what a fucking zero account was. And they were like, My my mate who was account that was like, Hey, you need the zero files. They're like, try and get the zero files. So I I'd gone in there with him, and he was like, Hey, this admin chick you've got is paying herself 110,000. Your mum's on 27,000. Also, super hasn't been paid for three and a half years, but hers has. So my mum basically they was that's that's fraud. Seriously. So she was like, but what she had said was my mum had agreed to it all when she was putting on drugs because she was trying to recover from pneumonia.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

Oh my god. That's that's coercion and everything. That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

Seriously, horrible it was it got so messy. Seriously, it was so fucked, right? So I when I got the accounts, and I remember Pete, who's the accountant, was living in Vietnam at the time, and he was like, Look, I've only got a Sunday free. It will be at nine o'clock at night. What can can you do that? So I sat down with him, and he's like, he goes, You want the good news or the bad news? And I was like, Here we fucking go. I was like, give me the good news, and he goes, Good news is I reckon we can close everything down and you won't be liable for everything. He was like, Bad news is you got about$400,000 in debt. So I was like, Okay, me and Lani had just bought an apartment together, and he was like, Hey, is your name on that apartment? And I was like, Nope, it's just in Lani's, and he goes, Perfect, they would just take that straight off you, right? Yeah, so I had to then go into the hospital and tell my mum this because my mum thought the business was working fine. We had left everything in this other person's kind of people, I know, right? So hence the trust is. So basically, he said to me on that side, we did eight hours on a call. Um I remember it being like 4 a.m. and like I was in tears because I was like, fuck, how am I supposed to tell my mom this? And he goes, Look, you just tell me what you want to do. Like he goes, have a chat with your mum. Do you want to keep the business or close it? Right. So we had at the time we had close family friends working in the business as trainers. And my mum being the person she is, and I'd like to think that I'm like this as well. I was like, I can't go and tell them like. Sorry, all the best. So my accountant was like, look, if you want my opinion, I'd go in there and tell them exactly what's happened, then just go, look, I will do everything I can to fix it. And then we kind of go from there, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:11

So I honestly I feel like honesty is very freeing.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:15

Yeah, and that look, they didn't take it too well.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:18

Uh yeah, my staff didn't either went on.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

And I was like, I said, look, I'm gonna have to cut. I was here, I'm gonna have to do this, I'm gonna have to do that. But I said, I'm gonna so we wrote a legal document to them being like, We we are telling you right now any money will go straight back into your account, super whatever, and stuff like this, right? Yeah, I think it took us three three and a half years, I think it was. That's why I say COVID helped us a lot because wages obviously got covered and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

Uh yeah, oh that helped you catch up, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:50

Exactly, right? Yeah, so that was the biggest thing. We we had a grant which was going at the time, I think it was like a ten thousand dollar grant for they were trying to push businesses online. So we just said, you know what, fuck it, let's just bite the bullet. Nobody else was doing it, and we just went, let's try and put all of our assessments online, and it did, it was the best thing that ever happened to us. So we had the flexibility there to be able to branch out the salons and apprentices like that. We teach all of New South Wales and Queensland now because of that flexibility which we did at the start, so it was just fucking madness. I remember it ticking off, and then I remember Pete saying to me, he's like, I've so I've this is the first year I've ever paid myself in the company, right? Yeah, so I've got loans and everything sitting outside of it, so did mum. We managed to pay mum's off two years ago. Um, basically, again, saying how lucky I am to have Lani. We put in our life savings in there to try and pay other people, you know what I mean? Um they don't know that, obviously. Um, but and they don't need to know that, but it's um it's there's a lot of it which has come off the back of us. My mum's put so much money into the company, you know what I mean? And I think that these are the things which I know I say to you all the time, it's like these are the things which people know when they want to open up a business. It's like, hey, you know what? And like what you were saying about the hard work, it's like, well, if I didn't want to, if I didn't work hard, like we would have been fucked. I was still working, I was working two full, well, basically two full-time jobs as well as trying to run the academy at that time. Just and my paycheck was just going straight in to the academy. Yeah, I think it was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:34

It's a funny thing, like I firmly believe like you've gotta, like, no matter what season of life you're in, if you go into business, you have to give it like a good three, four years of like really head down, butt up, doing the work, being coached, being mentored, learning, making mistakes, all the things. And then even with that, like some people it takes them 20 years, some people take them 10 years, like, you know, there's things that can expedite that process, obviously. But it's like even we still have seasons, like I had to let someone go, you know, about a year ago as well, and it was just this season of just like fuck, I'm gonna have to do the hard thing. Right now we're in a growth phase, and I know you know that's fucking hard and expensive and tiring. Like, yeah, so the seasons where you still have to just go balls to the wall with it, and you don't just get to sit back and enjoy. I mean, I did a seminar at Salon Lane last week on Monday, and like there was this beautiful young barber in there, absolutely loved him. He's like, you know, when do you get to just like switch off? And I was like, You don't, brother. I know what to tell you. This will consume every piece of you forever.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

That's the hardest thing, right? It um this is literally it. Like, I know we are identical about this, and it's like the the personal side of it, like the the actual like take away all of the business stuff which we do and stuff like that, and the actual time we get outside of business, that's what I think is the hardest. Because, like what I said to you about my circle and stuff like that. Like, I've lost mates, I've lost plenty of mates through this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

You know, that was one of my questions was you know, you speak about your circle getting smaller, you know. It's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:10

It's it's that's the thing, it's just like because either they a lot of the time they won't appreciate what you do, they'll think you're being rude sometimes when you can't when you can't text back, for example, or whatnot, they're like, Oh, the fuck Brooke thinks he's too big shot now.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:27

Because you just need a day on the couch, like, or you just need some time out, or you just don't have anything left in your social capital.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

100% like the best thing I ever say is like on an iPhone when you can put do not disturb. Like, that is my fucking best, mate. Like, it's again, probably not the best thing to be in class.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:44

Every day, it's like when it's like 9 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

Literally, literally, it's um, I think that's that to me has been the hardest thing. I'm a very social person, and you do have to give up a lot of it. Like, and I don't give a shit what people say, like, oh no, you can still have a social life and stuff like this. You'll yeah, I I all this is fucked, but I say it to Lani a lot. I'm like, I wonder what my life would be like if I clocked in at nine and finished at five. Monday to Friday, you know what I mean? Like, I wonder if I would be a better person. I wonder if like I would be a lot happier. I wonder if I wouldn't have the anger issues, you know what I mean? Like, I wonder if me and Lani would have a kid by now, you know what I mean? Like, and I think it's like that's that's the fucked up thing that people don't say in business, you know what I mean? They'll just go like, oh, just make sure you got a nice work-life balance. Like, fuck you now. It's like seriously.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

When does that happen? I'm 17 years into business now, and when does that happen? Like, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:44

I think it it's really funny to like, you know, I don't know many people that have all the same friends from school or things like that. I actually find that quite weird. I'm like, have you ever evolved or ever done a hundred percent? You know, ever moved or ever whatever. Like, for me personally, one of the best things I ever did was move out of my hometown. I think I was longing to go for years. I was held by my bricks and mortar. That was what Rona did for me. It just shoved me. It's like, go. Your dog's died, you've got nothing holding you, you're not in a relationship, like, get out. But I also think like the friends that I have now and the people I have in my life now, like, I think even me and you only text sometimes. Sometimes I'm like two days later, I'm like, I'm so sorry. I just got caught up. You're like, so worry about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

And I and I ignore it all the time. That's what everyone says. They're like, Because obviously, like people have lives, and that's the thing. It's like fuck, and like I know you're not being a prick, you know what I mean? Otherwise, you just tell me to fuck off, you know what I mean? That's I say that to people. Like, if I don't want to speak to someone, I just feel like, hey, stop texting me. Like in the nicest way possible.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

100%. But I also think every single person we have in like Minecan's friend circle, and probably the same for you, they're fucking awesome. They're hot and cool and fun and hardworking, and they get it, and like no one, there's just no complicated friendships or relationships anymore. Like, everyone's just so running at their own race, running in their own pace, and it's fucking good.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:03

100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:03

And all these other people have kind of flipped into the background, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:07

That is it. They've literally like it, it was so funny. We got married last July, and Lani, the biggest stress for her was like, How the fuck do we keep your list under a hundred? You know what I mean? Like, it was like because she's her circle is tight, like she's got a twin, so they're besties.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:29

Yeah, so and she's got another sister as well. She's really close to her mum, and she's close to my mum, so it's like her circle is like that's it. She goes, I don't I've never got any friends and stuff like that. So I to be honest, it's probably a good thing for me because she obviously gives me more attention, which I need to take my mind off stuff. So it's um it's I'd probably be fucked if she had mates, I'd have to stay in the house more. Um, so yeah, it it's just funny how that side of it, and I do classify that as the business side because I think if I didn't have that, or even just the people going like it's it's so weird. One of my mates said it to me the other day, he's not this type of guy, which I think hit home more. And he was just like, Fucking hell, you were guard. And he was like, he goes, you know what? It must be nice, like opening the keys to the house now and being like, Oh yeah, this is what I fucking work my ass off for.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

And I was like, I almost like cried.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:23

I was like, I went, Fucking hell, this is so weird coming from you. Like, he's fucking like trayy. Like, you if you see him, he's just fucking all this, all that. And it's like it was just funny that and he just sent a random text to me, and I was like, It's amazing how much that hits home, you know what I mean. I I've I've tried to make a big effort about it doing it for voice notes. Like, uh, there's uh you know what I'm like, my voice notes. I fucking love a voice note, but it's um just people on Instagram, you know what I mean? You you've see, yeah, you see some people on Instagram and you're like, they deserve a fucking like like a pep talk, you know what I mean? And I was like, I'll just send them a note and go, like, hey man, like you may not hear this from a lot of people, but like you're fucking doing amazing stuff. Like, I just want you to appreciate this, like you need to talk about watching your background.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:09

I'm cheering, 100%. It's so fucking cool. I know that Cam and I had that feeling when we moved in here as well. We moved in last June, I think. And you know, like I bought that apartment. I bought my apartment on my own. We spent time renovating it, it was great, whatever. But like we sold two cars to buy this. We literally sold everything that we wasn't bolted down to literally go ahead and do this. And we both I flew 58 times last year, and he was working two jobs, and like we just worked our fucking asses off and just like turning the key and being like, Hello, I live here is the fucking feeling.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:46

You're like, we did this 100%, but people don't realize that, Caitlin. You know what I mean? It's like this is what pissed me off. Like Lani's really like, I don't want people to know we bought a place and stuff like this, and I was like, Well, if they need to fucking let that stuff feel more quiet about that stuff, not me. I just said to her, I was like, look, if they need to argue, I fucking flew 115 times last year.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:13

Fucking astronomical, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

But you know what I mean? It's like, and that's the thing when people say it, they're like, Oh, geez, don't you get sick of it? And I was like, I fucking hate it. And I've told you before, I was like, I have no interest about, oh, it must be nice going on all days. I'm like, if you think I'm on all days, you're fucking dreaming.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:31

I was like, I stay, uh, I did uh sell on hotel airport home.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:36

100% right. It's it's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:39

And I order groom service because I'm an antisocial bitch when I do things like that. I'm like, I don't even want to be around people.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:44

Exactly, exactly, right? You're so like frozen from the day, like so, like you're just like, what am I doing? You know what I mean? It's it's funny. I remember doing a I did all the training for just cuts, um, and I signed a stupid fucking contract with them to do it. I'm just overcommitted, right? But I said to Lani, I was like, this will get us out of the shit, yeah. Um, so I did it, and I remember sending a video to Susie. So Susie O'Brien's, she's doing the Educator Academy with me, she's fucking amazing. She's been one of the biggest ones for our business to just my soundboard, right? And she's I sent her a video. I was I was in Sydney, is it Sydney Airport Motel or Sydney Airport Hotel, right? So that this has been on like recordings of like the worst fucking motel in the world, right? And I was sitting on my desk. There's this thing's fucking horrendous. Like when a plane comes over, the fucking place is shaking, but in the room is a single dead, the toilets on the end of the dead, and then there's a basin there, right? And people go, Oh, it must be so nice, like oh, you live in. And I I sent her a video, right, of it, and the TV was like, it was just my iPad.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:59

I was gonna say it was an old box.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:01

It's just no, there's like literally no TV in there. So I was like, I had my iPad up in there. I think I was watching like married at first sight or something, and I was eating your brain out TV, exactly, right? And I was eating Cole's brand chips, like is it like crisps, I called the Cole chips, which were chicken flavoured, but they had they this end by date was today, and they were 80 cents. And I was eating them like this. That was my fucking dinner, and I sent her a video going like, Holy fuck, how good's it being an educator? And I was just like, These fucking idiots thinking I'm staying at like the Hilton and stuff like that. And I was like, Oh my god, it's brilliant. I was like, and that I was gonna start doing that. I was gonna start doing a little bit of a series being like, Cool, I'll break down exactly the costs of what it is here because everybody says with the NRL, oh, it's all funny. Like, they must pay for your flights. Nah. Nope. I pay for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:56

And it's such a weird thing, too, isn't it? Because it's like sometimes like I'll go away, I'll be away Sunday, Monday, maybe come home Tuesday, then Cam works till 9 p.m. Tuesday, Wednesday because he teaches at TAFE in the evening, and then it's like Thursday, I'll have something else on, and it's like sometimes we literally don't see each other other than like a good morning and a good night for like two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:16

100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:17

And it's like people don't see that too. And then, yeah, it's like the other thing that I think I did a post about this and it went off that it's like people also don't see I don't just show up on the day and wing it. Like, I really do not know. Yeah, I know exactly. So it's like 20 hours of prep before I get there. Plus, I like to have like printer books and like bring some things and like make it a really nice experience. And I'm like, that there's so much time in the lead up to it. I'm not just charging you for the day that I'm there, I'm charging you for everything else. I'm charging you from being away from my family for two nights, I'm charging you for like everything else. It's not glam.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:51

Uh and that's exactly right. And this is the thing where it's um like this is the biggest thing we want to do about the educators academy is to kind of be like, we want to be open and honest with people. It's not saying that education is shit or anything like this, because I've heard people say that apparently this is what we're trying to do, and I was like, no, this is not it at all. Like, our biggest thing is getting the right people in the right rooms, it's telling people exactly how it is and learning from our lessons as well. Like what you said, like Susie is elite at the lead up time, so that's what I was telling people. It's like so just preparing for that education session, like what you said. Like, nobody sees that, like, nobody sees you in office works printing off fucking booklets and stuff like this, and it's like, fucking hell, you charged a thousand bucks for a one-on-one. And I was like, Yeah, I'll probably make 200 bucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:44

Yep. And it's if I calculate how many hours I spent versus how much I actually come at the other end with, I'm getting paid about 20 bucks an hour.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:51

Exactly. And it's like, but and that's the thing that we're trying to put into the academy to kind of put her is actually pricing for yourself and working out exactly what you are pricing. Like that, they've this is always a thing I learned from TAFE, which fucking hurt me. But when I thought that TAFE, I was on 96 bucks an hour, right? And I was like, fuck yeah, this is sick. I'm like, and my mum said to me, she was like, What but my mum was like, So what are you doing for 96 bucks an hour? And I was like, I just teach, it's fucking brilliant. And she was like, just to assess, and I was like, Oh yeah, and she was like, just to create this, I was like, Oh yeah, so all of this stuff I was doing in my own time, right? So it worked out to be$21 an hour. I was on. So I soon quit tape, but it was just funny that it just needed some, and this is why I love coaching because it just needed another opinion or somebody's else to go, hey, have you thought about bum bum bum bum bum? And they go, Oh, first thing I make them do.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:48

How much do you work in your business? How much do you work on your business? What is your take-home pay? Yeah, every single week, month, whatever. And then they're like, Oh, I just worked out to get paid 16.50 an hour. I'm like, that hurts, isn't it? I know, you know, like, and it's like I do that as like it's exposing and it's shocking, and it's meant to hurt your feelings a little bit. So that you're like, okay, I need to do something about this.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:07

Absolutely. It it needs the eye opener, right? And this this is what I think is the biggest thing in our industry. The people who are trying to do the eye openers are being slandered for they're like, oh, just fucking stay in your lane, or just I it's the silent treatment, right? It's like, don't oh, don't say that, or you may piss somebody off. Well, we have to we have to start doing that, otherwise, it's just gonna be the like my mum is telling me stuff that happened fucking when she was 16 in the salon, it's still happening now. Like, how the fuck does that happen? Yeah, it's it's honestly it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:41

Australia's got this c like of all the countries I've traveled to, Australia has the worst tall poppy syndrome I've ever experienced, ever. Yeah, my friend in America, absolutely killing it, profited like$10 million last year. And I was like, You are a fucking sick king. And he's like, Yeah, I love it. Like everybody over here loves it. I was like, if you did that here and you shared that, people would slander you, spread rumors about you, be horrible to you, contact you, but like it would just like it's just a different world. So it's that weird balance, I guess, of like being forthright and putting it out there and like also learning to like not care about the noise.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:14

Well, that that so I struggle with that massively, right? And everyone does because I I message you saying that we're popping. I love it. I it's it's hard, right? Because I want to say I'm a fucking hard ass, but I am the biggest softly ever, right? And all I want to do is help everyone, and I know I can't do that, but I I get that from mum, and I've I try and make sure that my mum doesn't do that, and still we both fucking do it. Yeah, it's it's the biggest thing, it's like when I hear the stuff that's being said about us and whatnot and stuff like that, and like what I said to you, I was like, I do feel like just going, you know what? Fuck it, I'll just shut everyone off then. Good luck with your industry, all the best, like we're just gonna stay in this lane and do that. But every part of me, like it's so hard. Like, I and yeah, I know people have said stuff to people to get back to me, yeah. Like the Educators Academy was the fucking prime one. It's just like no, we're they we're literally just trying to help.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

Yeah, and I mean the the thing is too, and I mean, like somebody once said to me, and I won't name them, but somebody once said to me, they're like, Oh, but so many people like hate on you, and so many people need leave mean comments. I was like, look at the person who commented that. Yeah, I know who works 10 hours a week, who sits a fucking home doing nothing. Am I worried about I'm not butthurt by somebody like that like that? If someone like you had something to say about me, I might care because I actually look up to you. But like, I always look at those things. I was like, all the people who are supportive are like cool and awesome and doing awesome shit and in their lane and thriving and all the things. And all the people who are hating are the people who are jealous and they're sitting there wallowing in their own life because nobody ever hated on anyone doing worse than them. Ever.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:01

Absolutely, ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:03

I just try to remember that. I'm like, you know, I'm not hating on someone who's unemployed or homeless or you know, something like I would never hate on someone like that. I would never hate on someone who's in like the first few years of doing their business because that's not me, but like I wouldn't hate on anyone anyway. But like I would never hate on someone who's doing better than me either. But like I can see why people do because they're like, why do they have that?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:22

Yeah, how did they do that? 100%, you know, it's kind of tattooed on me. I like that. That's when I get tattooed right there. So when I'm like I can just look at it and be like, yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:35

No one ever hated on anyone doing better than them, yeah, and anyone doing the worst than them. Look, you've been educating people in this industry for a decade now, and obviously you you you're right in up in it, right up in the grill of it. But what's the biggest thing you see like new hairdressers and barbers getting wrong? And I don't mean like technically, maybe, but more about the career itself or the business stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:54

Um sex where do I start? No, that I think the biggest thing at the moment is pricing. I I think there's I think I'm seeing a lot of videos at the moment, and I'm seeing a lot of people who probably shouldn't be saying stuff about pricing saying it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:18

Um yeah, do buy it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:21

That that's my biggest one. It's it's kind of the same as myself. It's like somebody like myself going, like, you should be charging a hundred dollars. Like, who the fuck am I to say that? Like, I don't own a shop, yeah. Like I I work in shops, and don't get me wrong, if somebody comes to me going, Hey, do you think I should put the price up? I'll be completely honest with them. I just changed my prices for haircuts, and I had a lot of people being like, Oh, fucking fuel shortage, and you're fucking charging this and that. And I was like, Oh, so I should just go without fuel in my car then, should I? Like, what what the fuck do you mean by saying that? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:57

And it's like wow, that's deflecting, isn't it? That's holding a fucking mirror like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:02

Seriously, I was just like, what the fuck is wrong? But that is what's wrong. It's that kind of argument. It's instead of just going like I worked it out. I think I spent 40,000 on PD last year in the last 12 months, you know what I mean? I I say 40,000, a lot of that is covered because I give up my space and whatnot for that, right? But it would have been retail value 40,000, right? So I'm kind of saying to people, I was like, well, is the barber you're currently going to doing that? And they're like, oh nah. And I'm like, well, that's why my fucking price is going up. And it's the same as education, like same as our courses. Our course started off seven thousand dollars and now it's twelve nine nine five. And love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:50

I started at two seventy five a week now, and now I'm like up around the four eighty or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:56

And it's still too cheap, it's still too cheap. You know what I mean? Like it is. I know full well we could sit here right now and spend the next five to ten minutes justifying why we could double that price. Like, and that's the thing which is fucked, right? And this is my hardest thing with pricing.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:13

I think the hard thing too, and I don't like I feel like this is fairly well industry specific, is having to justify our prices to clients. I've got a friend who's a plumber, fucking love the man, but we needed him to do a job the next day really early, and he just billed me$298 and he was here for about 20 minutes. And I didn't question it because he got up early, he moved someone else, he made it work, whatever, and it needed to be done. And like, I don't think, like, why don't people question everyone then? Especially like shop owners. Like, they've got literally the expenses of a shop. My salon, just the shop, the outgoings, the rent, the everything that I had to pay was over$120,000 just for the actual premises itself. That's not including running costs. And then you're telling me that someone who does something else that doesn't have those costs can charge more than me, you're not going to question them. It's kind of weird. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:01

It's so weird, right? Because you know the worst thing about that as well. Both of us would have a cert three. It's not as if they're fucking like university degree. It's the same fucking qualification. Like I bargained it so much. I can't remember I can't remember her name now. Who owns circles?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:18

Oh, Charlene.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:20

Charlene, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:21

Well, I fucking love her beautiful personality. I'm like, you're a fucking queen. It's the big thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:26

It's fucking brilliant, right? Yeah. Brilliant. So she put a post up about prices, and I I commented. I commented underneath being like, I just got charged 200 for fucking Sparky to come out and look at my job and go, yeah, I can do it. Imagine us doing that as fucking hairdressers or barbers. Like, we will get absolutely slaughtered. And I just seen somebody else, she put another one on there about a dog getting the haircut. Did you see the arguments about people going, oh yeah, but we've got a bigger skill level because we have to deal with them kicking and screaming and stuff like that? And I was like, fucking hell. I was like, okay, we are fucked. I'm like, that's that's when I read stuff like that, I go, like, holy shit, like, we are actually there is so much. Like, I don't actually know how we get out of that. I know obviously that's our biggest thing, I think. And it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:17

The poor little me thing, poor me, my life's so hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:21

Exactly. Exactly. Instead of just going, like, I do fucking brilliant work, that's why I charge that. If you need an and this is what I say to my clients, I was like, hey, like, I have a cheaper option for you. I was like, if you let me know your price bracket, I can tell you exactly who to go to, you know what I mean? And then they still go all just booking.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:39

I'm like, know the difference between a budget and bargaining. I'm okay if you come to me and you have a budget. That's why we have coaching options too. We've got group route for you to want from, we've got different things that we can offer you. If you don't want to do that one because you can't afford it, that's okay. We've got this one here that'll mix that budget when you're ready, you can upgrade. And it's the same thing in salons. It's like it's really great if you can have those tiered pricing options as well. Or don't just give the client more services and bargain your prices down, change the services so you meet their budget.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:08

100%. 100%. That that is it's such a um, it's such an old school sales tactic, that is, isn't it? It's just like, oh, but we're doing all of this. Like, they don't give a fuck. It's because they needed a that budget, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:23

So it's like you're also telling me enough to want my services and want me to look after you, but then you want to sit here and bargain with me. That is the unhealthiest energy exchange I've ever done. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:37

100%. It's you know, yeah, look at that. I mean, I would I I'm gonna stick to it. I think it is pricing. We get a lot of students now who are finishing the course, especially in Barbara, and they're like, How much do you charge? Like, as in there asking me, and I'm going, like, I mean this in a very respectful way now. I've just taught you for 12 months, and you're just gonna charge more than me, or what's what's the go here? And I was like, I said, I mean this in the nicest way possible. Like, I've done a lot of education, like, and I constantly like still actively do education throughout the week because in like learning from people, like I I love it because it takes my mind off stuff. That's another thing, which yeah, I was doing, and I'm saying to them, I was like, hey, like you're gonna struggle to go out there and charge like what I charge. I said, purely because you just need to get some reps in. I was like, even the like the hourly rate, oh, I should be getting paid this much. And I was like, okay, cool. I know how much my rent is, and I know their rent is double that price. Yeah, I said, so when you're saying I'm making this is I make them four thousand dollars a week. No, you don't. You don't make them four thousand dollars a week, like four thousand comes in from your haircuts, yeah, but their rent's fucking 20 grand a week, for example. You know what I mean? Like it's so fucking funny because yeah, like what you said, right? I would love to in the academy, I would fucking love to do this, and I think I am gonna do it. Just put up all of our costs. So when somebody says, How much is that? Just go, well, that's my rent per week. That's what I gotta pay other children. Imagine that on the wall, and just being like, don't fucking argue my prices, that's it, right there. That's that's why you'll be completely open and honest to people and just go, that's without me taking a wage, that's without any of our staff, that's what I have to cover. Yeah, and then maybe oh, because Caitlin, I gotta tell you a quick story, right? Because this is funny about this. I used to have a trainer who works for me, and um we would go back and forth about pay and whatnot, right? I I like to think we pay our staff very well. We always try and look after them, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:46

Yeah, so do I.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:47

It's it just it's a win-win, right? So we had a trainer who came in for a meeting with me and Mamma was like, Well, look, I know you make this much, right? And I was like, I said, like, how'd you know that? And she goes, Well, I've got 10 students, all of them paid 10,000. She's like, Well, that's how much you made. And I was like, Right, okay. I was like, I said, just to let you know, for me to break even, I need 10 students in a class to cover your wage rent and everything. That's not me and mum taking any money, whatever. And she's like, No, you're charging them 10,000, you get 10,000. And I was like, Fuck me, if that was it, it'd be the best thing ever. We pay three grand on kits, right? Alone. So take that stress off.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:35

10% GST.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:37

Oh, I seriously. It was it was honestly. So I've tried to be open and honest with our staff, and we we do go through a lot of numbers with them because they can see it from the outside and go, fucking hell, you chart you charged$12,995. And I was like, I go, hey, if you want me to be honest, like I still don't pay myself. Like you you want to be that honest? Like, you know, when you guys complain about yourself getting paid, like I would fucking do a lot of terrible things to get that money, you know what I mean? So it's like that's my hardest one. I don't want to be that person, Caitlin. You know what I mean? I don't want to be like, well, I don't get paid, so don't fucking win. Yeah. But it's like it sometimes it can come across and go, like, I think, I think there needs to be that open honesty as well. I think. And that that's what I think maybe we struggle with as business owners, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:30

I think it's funny too. Like, you know, I look back to when I went through my apprenticeship um and even the place I worked after that where that I ended up buying. Like they never spoke about that stuff. You just had KPIs and that was it. And like, you know, the two bosses that I worked for at the start, one of them wasn't ahead or something, they were just slave drivers, like, sell more, sell more, sell more, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you kind of get that bitter taste in your mouth. But I remember sitting down with my staff, and this is something that I teach my clients to do as well. It's like, I sat down, I was like, cool, we're gonna go through all the costs today because guys, we've been really lucky with retail, we haven't been hitting KPIs. Let's sit down and go through everything. So be like, what do you think my rent's worth? And they're like, Oh, my house is like$500. So we'll put$500 and it was like, you know,$8,000 a month. And just like going through the rates and going through everything. And I was like, what do you think it is? And then I'll tell you what it is, and we'd go through everything. And then at the end, I was like, so this is how much I actually cost. And they were like, Oh, and I was like, Yeah, so this is what you're costing me if you're not hitting the KPI, and this is what you're making me if you are hitting the KPI. Like, and it was like this eye-opening thing, and I was like, I have nothing to be hiding this about, such an old school way of thinking.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:33

That is it, it's the hiding. That's what I fucking think. It's like they go, like, oh yep, it's all right for you, it's all right for you. I'm like, fucking hell, you have no idea. Like, you actually have no idea, and it does, it annoys me a little bit. We used to have a couple of staff members who I I know it would piss off Lani, that they'd be like, Oh, it's all right for you guys, like you can just work when you want. And Lani's like, work when we want. She's like, I fucking started at 6 a.m. and I didn't finish until fucking 1 a.m. Yeah last night. If you want to say work when you want, like, and she that like Lani is fucking harmless, right? But she was just like, Don't you dare ever say that. She was like, because guy, like realistically, if we wanted to, we could get rid of everyone and we could run the company, you know. Like I could teach Barbara, Mum could teach hairdressing. Yep, we could just go from there, right? But we don't, so it's yeah, it it's so fuck.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:28

I remember I had one, I had a really cheeky staff member. She was she didn't she didn't last very long, but it was like Christmas week. We'd had a really great week. I'm still I wasn't on the floor at this stage, but I was there helping them with just checking out and just helping everybody to run the week because coaching gets dead around Christmas time, obviously because they're client crazy busy. And um she said to me, She's like, Oh, all this money is that's what's paying for your new car? Because I'd just bought my Camaro like 12 months earlier. I was like, I paid$34,000 in wages yesterday for the week. I was like, and you want to sit here and talk to me about what that pays for? And she was like, Oh, I was like, We have 28 staff, babe, plus super, plus holidays, plus everything else. And I was like, and you're literally whinging to me. And she was like, Yep, oh, and she did it in front of a client. I was I think she must have seen like steam coming out of my ear. But I said in front of her, I was like, I don't give a fuck, I'll just tell you.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:23

Like, yeah, exactly. The the car thing's always the funniest. I love that. Like when people go, Oh, you just bought a new car, and I was like, Yeah, I got told by the accountant I had to because I don't have the money to pay off tax. Like, you know what I mean? It's like it's so fucking funny because they're like, Oh, new car. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, it's like that was too.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:46

I drove an old Lancer that was the car that I upgraded from that I traded in for two and a half thousand dollars. So, like, you can imagine what kind of shape it was in. It's not, it was not, it was like this was just something I did for myself, like, yeah, like 100 off.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:04

I know it's so it's so funny. It's like, yes, oh god, good times.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:10

And also going into business, and I also think too, like, if you're like obviously this doesn't happen for a while, but if you're not honestly working towards, you know, 120 to 150,000 a year in profit in wages at very minimum, why the fuck would you be in business? Why would you carry all that? Why would you do all that? Like, if there's not, you know, I know some people are like, oh no, I'm fine earning this. I'm like, I understand that you might be fine earning 50, 60, 70 grand. That's fine, like that's fine for you, but there's so much else that goes on. We're married to our jobs, you're managing all these other people. How do you feel that your staff are getting paid more than you?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:43

I know that that has been that's a hard thing. Like, that is a very hard thing as well. I I know when you put the post up and I was like, it's true, it's so true. Because like I can like I get bad, I get bad like resentment and stuff like that. Sometimes if a staff member says something and I'm like, I feel like replying back to him going, like, hey, did your wages get paid this week? Mine didn't, like, you know what I mean? Which is fucked. I know I shouldn't be like that, and obviously I don't say that, but it doesn't I should say that's don't let the intrusive thoughts win. No, I know. I'm like, but don't say that. But like what I was saying, I was like, I I wonder, well, I could just go and get a job for that much, you know what I mean? Like, and without the stress, like I I remember working for TAFE, I was like, I I mean, I didn't like it because I wanted to change stuff, and they didn't want that. They were like, hey, just stay in your fucking lane and do the job, like, and I'm like, oh, we could do this, we could do that, we could, and they're like, no, no, shut up, sit in the corner, do your fucking job, and then that's it. So that's why I ended up leaving. But it's yeah, it it's just funny, it's not for everyone, right? It's it's definitely not for everyone, but like we just said, week, definitely not for the fine hearted.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:53

It's you've got to be you've got to be very thick skinned to survive, especially in small business. I think it's yeah, it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:01

But do you do you find that's the thing though, Caitlin? Like, and this is what so obviously we've got a couple of academies and stuff like that, and people go like, Oh, yeah, your business is huge and stuff like this. And I'm like, No, it's not, it's a small business. Like they're they're seeing people on fucking TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that. And I'm like, they're global businesses, they ain't a fucking small business. Like, yeah, there's a reason why he's out on a yacht, you know what I mean? It's like this, we're talking different fucking ballparks here, but they just put business owner under the same thing, you know what I mean? So it's like all of our sort of two students do it because they're all high school kids. They go, Oh, do you own this business? And I'm like, Yeah, they're like, Fuck, you must be loaded. Like, you what the fuck are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:42

Gotta come do what I do for a week.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:44

Yeah, seriously, I was like, Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:47

Look, I think there's like two sides to that too, isn't it? Because it's like, okay, cool, it could be really inspirational for people, but also then the contrast that is some people are so delusional about what actually goes on, you know. Our goal is, I don't know what you guys have got family goals-wise, but you know, our goal is eventually that Cam can go part-time and I can cut down a little bit too. So we can enjoy having a family, and we don't have to be like, you know, married to the business and all of those things. But you know, it's not even really that much about money for us as much as it's about time and flexibility and those sorts of things, too. But you've got to, you don't just get to step into a business and it just works. You've got to build it up and do that and do all the hard things and make all the sacrifices, and then hopefully you get to enjoy the fruits of that at the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:29

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:30

Doesn't help when your accountant puts you$400$400,000 in the hole, though, gaz.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:34

No, that I mean, but that's quite a setback. I tell you what, though, I learned so many lessons from it. Like, so many lessons from it.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:45

I think that it's um it's one of those things, isn't it? Like I talk about this so openly that like I got myself in like close to 300 grand of debt when I was 25, just business debt, all sorts of things. And all of a sudden just kind of like built up on me, and then I was like, yeah. And I worked so hard to pay it off, and that paying off really changed me as well. But also like the I'll never put myself like back into something like that. Like that was just money on not like there was nothing securing that. It's not like I had a house, I not like I had like owned my car, but like it's not like I had anything on that. Whereas now it's like I'm okay with debt as long as there's like a house in it, or there's like there's nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:20

100%, 100%, and that that's what I tell people because they're like, oh, fucking hell, you bet you have a big mortgage. And I was like, Yeah, but that's what I worked my ass off for. Like that I I want I want that debt, not a credit card debt because I bought a fucking Louis Vuitton bag, you know what I mean? It's like that's the um, I mean, yeah, it's fun, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:40

Uh look, thank you so much. This has been fucking epic. We've yapped our asses off, which I knew we would love. But um, if there's one piece of advice you could give to younger guys or anyone else that's up and coming, or one bit of one, you know, hot take or something, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:57

I was very lucky when I was younger to have kind of I call them mentors now, but I think it was the I didn't used to hang out around with too many people my own age. It was kind of older people and whatnot. I spent my siblings as well, were all older than me. So I I think I got very lucky with my circle when I was younger, like especially when starting business as well. There was a lot of people who just gave me like little tips and tricks and stuff like that, which kind of helped me along the way. Probably my biggest thing would be obviously to I mean, if I could go back in time, would be to see the accounts probably from day one. That would have been probably the biggest thing, and to actually own it. I think I was so caught up. Yeah, I was just so caught up in just being like a business owner, and I was like, fucking, this would be great, I'll be retired by the time I'm 30. That it was just I I literally had that in my mind, that it was just gonna be like I'm rolling in it, I'm like, this is fucking brilliant. It's just the everything that I just said, you know, everything I've just said about business owners, that's what I thought of myself. I was like, I said, I've got a business, so I'll just be fucking money, will just come in. It's sick, and I think just probably look after myself a little bit more, I think, in regards to I put so much time and effort and money into the business where maybe there were times where I should have just got nah, I just should not do that. Um I have a terrible habit of not saying no, like fucking terrible, like it's and I won't say no to people, you know what I mean? It's just like it's fucking so bad. Yeah, and I think that's why I do I would like to think we do have a good rep in the industry and whatnot. It's because we don't say no to people, really, which is good and bad, right? So I think it's that would probably be the thing, be probably be able to tell myself or be able to say no a lot more times and just be like, no, actually, that that doesn't make sense. Um yeah, I think that that would probably be the biggest thing for me, and yeah, then the mentors. Like, I I think having that person you can bounce stuff off, like it's fucking so like it's it's a community of people who are doing it 100%, and then sometimes it's not even business, you know what I mean? Okay, like it's like it may just be like fucking hell. Yeah, how's your business going? And then it's like they'll go fucking hell it's being tough because you think you are the only one who's having a bad time, like all the time, you know what I mean? It's like, and every single person I've spoken to, this court that has gone fucking hell, that's tough. And it's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:41

I just put a post out about this, just being like, here's some of the shit things that have happened in my life of late, because everyone thinks I've got it all together all the time. Maybe they don't. I don't know. But I was just like, you know, here's just some of the random things that have really like pissed me off in the last few months or like really like shaken things up for me, and all these people like, oh my god, this is so good. I was like, do you know why? Because with that comparison culture of always looking at what everybody's doing, what everyone's putting out there. Don't get me wrong, my life's great. I'm fucking happy as fuck. Like, I love my life, I love my business, love my clients, all that. But like there are other things that do happen in my life that we just don't talk about enough, and here they are 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:16

Yeah, exactly. And it's like, I think it's all right if like that happens, you know what I mean? Same as business. Like, I I love that you were saying like the the seasons, like I love that saying because it's like, yeah, yeah, you could be, and I say it to mom, I was like, Holy shit, you know, if we did a month like this every month of the year, like fucking hell, yeah, and then the next month it's fucking dismal, and you go like, oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, like, ah yeah, that's right, a business. Like, forgot we owned a business, so it's like it's and yeah, sorry, just one more tip. I I think it would be to to actually have that kind of the I never understood cash flow, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:57

So cash flow to me as a business was just like financial curvy, that's like porn to me, Gareth.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:04

Yeah, 100%, 100%. It's like I think that is that was one of my biggest things, just knowing, like, hey, not every month is gonna be like this. Um, yeah, yeah, I think that was a big, big, big one for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:17

Inconsistency, hey, especially in the small business, exactly like you said, like you can have a couple of students leave, you can have something change over, you can have a whopper of an expense come in. Like, it's just so yeah, 100%. I love that, and I guess that's one of the huge things too. When we're talking earlier about you, staff are like, oh, you students or whatever, like, oh my god, like you're so rich, blah, blah, blah. It's like, so you pay pay every week. I know that must be nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:42

Exactly. Just getting paid in general must be nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:47

I love that so much. Uh, if you want to follow Gareth's journey, you can find him on socials at Gareth Philpot. And if you're in the hair or the barber space as well, or you're an educator wanting to level up, there's the Hair and Barber Academy, Crispy Club, the Educator Academy. Is there anything else you wanted to add in there?

SPEAKER_02 1:49:05

No, I think that's it. As I wanted to say, my my thing at the moment is whether to blend the hair and barber academy together. That's my biggest business decision at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:14

So big. They're kind of like hair and barbering is like they're kind of the same thing, but they're kind of not.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:20

I know, that's the thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:22

It's like oh, so parallel in so many ways, but then there's like other things that don't kind of interconnect, which is yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:31

I know, too hard, too hard, Basco. It doesn't need to be done right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:35

A hundred percent. Thank you so much, King. This has been so good. I can't live with you for two hours if anyone's still listening in.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:43

No, good luck. All the gems are at the end, that's what they always say. All the gems are at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:49

100%. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:51

No problem. Thank you for having me. And yeah, no, I look forward to catching up too.