GraceFilled Community

Building a Strong Foundation Before "I Do"

• Nicole Cater • Season 1 • Episode 21

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Denise Payne returns to share her expertise on premarital preparation and relationship health using the Prepare and Enrich curriculum, which helps couples understand their compatibility in crucial areas like finances, communication, and spiritual beliefs.

• Certified premarital counselor who works with couples across the nation through a six-session format
• Communication consistently ranks as the biggest issue in relationships, even after decades of marriage
• Using "I statements" and reflective listening techniques can transform conflict conversations
• Understanding the five love languages (quality time, words of affirmation, acts of service, gifts, physical touch) helps partners love each other effectively
• Incompatibility isn't necessarily a red flag - complementary differences often strengthen relationships
• Spiritual belief compatibility creates a foundation that positively impacts all other areas of marriage
• Couples can intentionally create new family cultures that break unhealthy generational patterns
• Developing a family mission statement helps establish healthy patterns from the beginning
• The goal shouldn't be to "live happily ever after" but to "live healthily ever after"
• Long-term marriages stay vibrant by evolving together, trying new activities, and adapting to different seasons of life

Connect with Denise Payne:
Website: www.christianpremaritalcounselor.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/careercrossroadscounseling/

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Speaker 1:

My name is Nicole Cater, your host, founder and servant leader of Graceville Community. I want to thank you for tuning in to Graceville Community Podcast. This is a safe space, a place in which we just share stories of how God has touched individuals' lives all across the world and how they are now impacting the kingdom of God. Thank you for tuning in. Blessings to you, hello, welcome, welcome, welcome. I am uber excited you guys hear that Uber excited for today's show.

Speaker 1:

We have a returning guest, one who I am so grateful for, denise Payne. And so, before we get started, I do want to tell you, listeners, if you have not listened to our previous recording with Denise, you need to go back and listen to it. I mean, it was phenomenal. Just talking about connecting with areas that you're passionate about, connecting with your God-given purpose, right, and how to find that. I mean, from that episode I will say I signed up my three teens to work with Denise and it was so impactful I felt like a weight was lifted off of me. Yes, there's somebody else in my village to help. So thank you, denise. We're so happy to have you on Graceville community. Help me. Welcome, denise once again.

Speaker 2:

Hi Nicole, it's so great to be back. I'm happy to be here yet again chatting with you.

Speaker 1:

Yes, well, I'm so glad to have you back. I mean, we were having conversation before we press record, which tends to happen sometimes. I'm like we should have pressed record. I'm excited to talk about our topic today though Premarital right, like once you made that decision to say yes, this is the one. You've said yes, um, I know how important premarital consideration, premarital counseling, premarital um I would really say like even mentorship is before going into marriage. Um, in our own story, we had a very short process of premarital, and I do believe that some of that led to not being prepared for the things that hit us in marriage the good and the bad, not really having an understanding of being prepared and how to handle them. And so I know that you work with couples in premarital aspects, so please tell us a little bit about what you do, and then let's dive in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I have been utilizing Preparing and Enrich. It's a curriculum out of Colorado Springs. It's been around for about 40 years. It's helped 4 million couples. To date. I have not helped 4 million couples, but it has.

Speaker 2:

My husband and I actually we were trained as lay ministers years ago with it and we worked man about once honestly, once or twice a year with couples just for free and kind of meeting with them, helping them repair. And then when I became an empty nester and I launched into the career counseling, I actually became a certified facilitator and I was able to do compare and enrich on my own. I do now charge, but I do work with couples all over the nation and honestly can do internationally. I almost work with a couple in Austria, so like, if you speak English I can work with you. But basically what it is is my couples take an assessment on compatibility and so this assessment will give me results on compatibility in areas such as finances, conflict resolution, communication, spiritual beliefs, family of origin, a whole host of issues, usually about 12 to 14 areas, even personality differences. And then we kind of fine tooth comb those areas in session. But they have in session homework and out of session homework and I was able to actually work it out. The Lord and I we kind of co-labored together, but they do these in six 90-minute sessions. So the curriculum essentially is usually about 12 weeks, but I just smushed it all together and the Lord and I worked it out to where I just meet with couples six times for 90 minutes, and sometimes I'm working with a couple right now we're just going to meet once a month because they're kind of pre-engaged, and so some, like I'm working with a couple right now we're just gonna meet once a month because they're kind of pre engaged, and so some couples I'll work with, they want to work with me just to see if they even want to go down the engagement route, and so I also do work with married couples, but I describe that as non crisis. Married meaning. Crisis to me is current active affair, major addiction or mental health issues, and so, though, I will pass those on, because technically, even though I'm a master's in counseling, I am not a licensed marriage and family therapist. So I will pass that along to to the my colleagues under Grand Junction Counseling, or I'll pass that along to people over the nation, but anyway, so yeah, so honestly, the non-crisis marriage is interesting because some, a lot of people have not had premarital and they will have this great wedding and this great honeymoon, and then they're like, oh my gosh, like all these issues will pop up and they've not looked at them, they've not dealt with them and it kind of freaks them out.

Speaker 2:

And I, actually, one of the things I say to my clients is I I am not freaked out by your areas of incompatibility. I'm not freaked out by your family origin. You just need to know that a God is calling you guys to like go down this path, but you need to be willing to put in the work and show up, and that's the the big thing it's. You know I've worked with couples that they're on their third or fourth marriages. I work with couples that they have a whole host of both sides massive issues growing up and trauma and drama. And you know some of them are like, should we even get married? Yes, you should get married, but you just need to know you're probably going to have to work a little harder because you didn't have great role models.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I love that. I mean you just said something super key that I experienced. Isaiah and I both come from some traumatic backgrounds, but in different ways, right, and so one of the ways we see it play out often in our marriage and I only wish that we had this wonderful source like you beforehand we learned during the marriage and, yes, putting in a lot of work, right, a lot of work, a lot of development. But Isaiah came from an aspect that was very traumatic. I mean we talk about him moving over 40 times before he was of age 18, not because of military, over 40 times before he was of age 18, not because of military, but because of just traumatic circumstances.

Speaker 1:

You know, I come from a family that in my mindset I remember early in our marriage I'm like, no, you're the problem. Like you come from trauma, I don't have trauma. And then I dive into counseling. I'm like, oh, I have a lot of trauma, right, and so when we have that like come together, we would have issues of trauma, I mean just even finances, like he wanted to make sure that he provided and avoided having to go back into a circumstance of poverty or lack or evictions or things of that sort that he would like be so stringent of, like every dollar has to be saved.

Speaker 1:

And I come from an aspect of because of the trauma and not really having anybody tell me no, and me being used to being bought in the sense of like they're trying to buy my love, right, and so I'm like, well, you're telling me, no, that's not love. Like you know, you don't love me, yeah, you don't love me, um, and so I mean we had some battles, having to understand how our backgrounds, how our upbringings, influence what do we call it Like attachment theory, right, like our love styles and how-.

Speaker 2:

Bonding ability to bond.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, absolutely, and so okay, so you work with couples all over the nation. I love that. So if a couple was, you know, considering, and I do, like that, you said you even work with couples that are considering before engagement, right. Like should we step into this part? If a couple is like in the consideration process, what is the steps for working with you Like? Is there any couples that you're like? Oh I just, we won't work together. Or what does the process look like when they're questioning?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I will do. I offer an introductory phone call if they want to, but I'll do an introductory email. They will sign my intake forms and then, basically, again, they'll take that, they'll sign those digitally, they'll take that assessment. We honestly do dive into content the very first session. So I'm really big on getting bang for your buck and I charge the same price as I charge for the career counseling $75 for 90 minutes and I also pay for the assessment. So I'm at half price because I've chosen not to get licensed, but I do dive in.

Speaker 2:

Now I will say I've had a couple of times one particular couple I worked with. It was going to be his second marriage. Honestly, he had struggled with codependency issues a lot in his first marriage and you talked about that and I recommended some resources. I'm trying to kind of break free from that. He read the first resource and he was like, oh my gosh, I'm not ready to get married yet, you know. So, even just that, and so I'll have them put. Sometimes I'll't want to take a pause. Sometimes they broken up in the not because of me, you know, but just like this stuff gets dialed up. And there was a particular person with an addiction, a past addiction that kind of reared its ugly head and yeah, so you know, there is a time for sure they can just pay per session. There's no commitment and there's always like you know what we're going to put this on pause or we're going to wait.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes couples have gotten married earlier than they thought they would, so they've got married during while I'm working with them. You know, which is fine. We just meet after the wedding, it's you know. I mean, this is these are lifelong concepts. This is not just, you know, I don't work with them lifelong, but I do provide them resource and tools and how for them to continue to work on their marriage. This is not just a you take a blue pill, you're ready for marriage. You know, this is more just exposing some areas that might need growth, celebrating areas that their strengths, and then providing them with tools, and then it's up to them to pick up those tools, you know, and use them.

Speaker 1:

So yes, ok. So you said lifelong and I like that. Like we can't just take the blue pill and it magically is fixed Right. And you know, even I can speak to, as in our marriage, right After I mean just celebrating 20 years of marriage we still have consistent like check-in, like you know, whether it's with mentors, whether it's with counselors, of just check in right, check the temperature right, see how things are going, have someone there to help us walk through challenging circumstances, because we know life does come with its own challenges, like we have trials and tribulations, and so, even in that, I like how you acknowledge that it's a lifelong thing and that you give them tools to do this for lifelong, which I mean the goal of marriage right is that we do it and it is until death do us part. So you know, when you see couples struggling, if there was one area you would say you see them struggling the most, like what would that be?

Speaker 2:

area. You would say you see them struggling the most. Like what would that be? So it?

Speaker 2:

would definitely be communication and I've been married we will celebrate 31 years next week but we still struggle with communication. You can talk to my husband we had a conversation, this, like yesterday, you know. So that is the number one and it's interesting because there's some statistics that finances and sexual dissatisfaction are the two things that lead to divorce. But I do, and I don't know if those statistics are within the church or out of the church. But what I in my work currently, communication is the biggest, biggest issue. Communication is the biggest, biggest issue.

Speaker 2:

So we do. Actually, you know, I do have some tools that I provide for them. Regarding increasing communication, first of all, I do love that you check in with your husband I actually I recommend this and my husband and I used to do this on Sunday nights when our kids were little. Honestly, we have one adult kid at home right now, and so it's a little easier to just connect and be together. But, but one of the things we used to do on Sunday nights is we would do what I call marriage check-in and we would say hey, how do you think we're doing? What can I improve on? And the scale from zero to 10, like 10 being, bliss, you know, zero being, I want out. Where would you rate it this week? I mean, it doesn't have to be, you know and then we would pray together. So we would just say how can I, how can I pray for you in this area? And we would pray together.

Speaker 2:

But another thing that I recommend obviously is and I know this is very communication one-on-one, but it does work but using I statements when you're frustrated, um, instead of you, blah, blah, blah. But like I felt sad when you didn't, uh, take out the trash after I asked you to three times. You know um and let's get real Um and so, but also what um? And I know again, this is communication one-on-one, but it, it, it works with my couples. But then the response to the person that you're sort of confronting would say what I hear you saying is you're frustrated or sad because I didn't take out the trash and there's so much that can be cleared up just by saying can you repeat that? Or this is what I heard and obviously the tone is huge and sometimes it's that they didn't mean to even, you know, come across as a frustrated tone. They just like stubbed their toe while they were talking to you.

Speaker 2:

And so that's key. And then also, I feel like there are different ways to communicate how much you love them in five love languages and I'm sure you're familiar with those and for your listeners I will just it's from Gary Chapman and he created these a long time ago, but for simplistic reasons I will just kind of do just sort of like a very for lack of better word, like a crude, just you know breakdown of the five language languages that you guys can get that book and read it more thoroughly, but at quality time. Words of affirmation, acts of service, gifts and physical touch. And what I find with a lot of my couples is they will show love, how they want to be loved, and so they'll just shower, you know, shower with gifts If that's the loving language and then the the you know partner is saying no, I actually don't feel led by receiving gifts, I want words of affirmation or things like that.

Speaker 2:

So we do talk about making sure that first of all we do discuss like how do you feel most loved? And obviously it changes in seasons. So I used to be a words of affirmation, affirmation girl, and then I had young children. Acts of service was right there. You can just change a diaper, you can do the dishes, so I can hop in the shower, and so that changed and I let my husband know. Like you don't even need to tell me I'm beautiful, just do the dishes, please. Or vacuum, you know. And so that changes and waxes and wanes, you know, with different seasons in life. So we do talk about communicating in that way as well, even through physical touch and and things like that, and I know that sounds weird as a way to communicate, but it's actually how you love them and so, yeah, so those are some of the you know just a little bit of a recap of some of the communication things that we discuss and talk about in session.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Well, let me say, like I know, I mean without a doubt, I knew before we started that you know your stuff, but as you were stating your communication tools, I'm like, yep, we learned to do that. Yep, we learned that.

Speaker 1:

Like these are all the steps for our listeners. These are all the steps that we put in place and we were coming out of marriage with crisis and these were some of the starting tools to really impacting our marriage. I mean, we still do it now. My favorite way of communicating is when you did this, I felt this, right, you know, in the aspect of love languages, um, you know, I do want to let our listeners know, even if you're walking into a marriage and maybe you have children, maybe you're coming together as a blended family, or maybe you're listening and you're like, oh, this is great communication tools, right, and I'm not premarital, but hey, we all need this Cause.

Speaker 1:

Like you said, denise, you're 31 years in, I'm 20 years in, I'm like we still use these tools, right. But as a mom, I will say love languages changed the way my kids receive love from me. I would say maybe about five, six years ago, I had a point where I learned and realized the way I was loving my husband was not how he needed to receive love or how he was receiving love for me.

Speaker 1:

And so when I discovered that with him, I thought I wonder if my kids understand that this is me loving them. And so we had this conversation. We taught them the five love languages. There's a quick YouTube video y'all where there it goes over the five love languages and it was like a seven minute video to help, for at that point they were like a nine and ten I think, and so you know we taught them the love languages. And then I had them tell me like which one do you receive love from? And so one kid's access service. I'm like, oh, that's why he cares when I actually do his laundry for him, right?

Speaker 1:

or like you know, the other kid was very clear with gifts and I'm like that makes sense, because you will ask for the $200 item Like it's nothing. You know you are good, yes, you know. And another one, she was like I'll take a quality time. I'm like that makes sense, cause all you want to do is that quality time and physical touch. You want to sit and cuddle and watch a movie with me and so forth, and so it really gave me insight on how I can love them best. And so, even as a parent, I think this goes into even your relationship with friends.

Speaker 1:

I think even your relationship in the workplace. Gary Chapman has a book that I did not know about. I have to look up the title because I only found out about it being. On this last cruise we took, we walked by a gentleman and he had a book that said like love, languages in the workplace.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I didn't know that, yes, and I was like what, where have you been all my life? Yes, so, as this lovely gentleman is like sitting by the side of the ocean, really wanting to just enjoy his time with his book, I'm like, sir, how is that? Hi, but it's so impactful. And so those tools you gave, I know, you know, like you said, they're like communication, one-on-one. But back to basics, right. Sometimes it's going back to the basics to help solve the things that are sitting in front of us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you know, interesting with the words of affirmation, because we have a homework assignment that they're supposed to give what they call daily compliments, but with the words of affirmation. I encourage my clients to do a different type of compliment, because it's easy to say, well, you look, pretty well, you look pretty well, you look, and that takes no creativity on their part. And just to even think through, like how can I and I actually say I would love for you to compliment them in an area you've never complimented them before, it gets them looking at the positive actions that they're doing versus the criticism and the critical aspect of what they're doing wrong, cause we're all human and we're all going to do stuff wrong but to really have looking through the lens of you know how can I cheerleading champion, you know my fiance or spouse and to go in daily with that mindset?

Speaker 2:

And then I'll follow up and I'll say how did that go and did you use I statements and did you know? And honestly, if you get into the routine where these kind of become rote, then you fall back on those when you're in those heated discussions Because it's almost like a muscle memory. It's like, oh yeah, I'm not going to interrupt, I'm going to let them do their I statements and I'm going to reflect back.

Speaker 1:

So, absolutely One of the things I think about is just recently. We do like a vision meeting at the beginning of every year, typically like my husband and I will individually meet and then we'll come together. We like to try and get two days away and just really go for like okay, lord, what do you have for us this year? We kind of go through the list, like of priorities, like okay, lord, what do you have for us this year? We kind of go through the list of priorities like okay, what are we committing to with our relationship with God, to each other, a spouse, then to the kids, and then to church and extended family and so forth. And so we were doing that and, like you said, the way you receive love will change depending on the seasons right.

Speaker 1:

You're in. And so in previous seasons we had to be very intentional to have that weekly date night, to have that weekly time together. And now we're in a season where, yes, there's three teams and so they all are kind of doing their own thing, and we find ourselves sitting sometimes like hey, it's you and I like what do you want to do? Right? And so as he was laying out, like okay, this is our date night budget, I'm like well, hold on, I don't think we need weekly date nights. Like can we just identify once a quarter to just go away and have intentional time away? But we're, we're seeing each other, we're having these conversations and those weekly date night seasons are not necessarily what's needed in this moment. And so I remember his reaction. He was like what I mean? Yes? Like oh, my goodness, because we had years of me saying like I need quality time, I want this time once a week, you know, so forth. So he was just like you gotta be kidding me.

Speaker 2:

Like yes, we could do that.

Speaker 1:

Yes, but I think that just speaks to why it's so important to keep these communication skills to. You know, do those check-ins and go through like, what does your spouse need at this time, at this season in their life? Right, you know, and keeping in that in mind, many of us did not get to see that in the marriages that went before us, right? So many of us, especially if we look at the differences in time. We look at the difference in how we see therapy now, how we see, like, talking about your weaknesses and getting resources for those that was not there If I even consider 20 years ago, 40 years ago, let alone 60 years ago. And so a lot of us did not have role models that we can necessarily say was a true, healthy marriage of family origin. And so when you have couples that come to you and they're coming from a place of that that they didn't get to see that healthy role model, how do you recommend them thriving in their marriage?

Speaker 2:

Sure, it's a great question and it comes up quite a bit, and so basically, first of all, I remind them that they have a chance to create a whole new family culture and so they do not need to bring anything in. And we actually have a homework in session thing where they say what do you want to bring, if anything? One thing like what's one, because we don't have time to go into it. You know all the things, but what's one tradition or one thing you want to bring in? If anything, what do you not want to bring in? And we I've had clients that are like I want to bring nothing from my family fortune, which I totally respect. But sometimes it's nice, even if you've had just some, a lot of trauma, but they're like wow, I really liked that we did cinnamon rolls on Christmas morning. You know no-transcript Like. You can make those changes, you get those resources, get the therapy, get the books, get that.

Speaker 2:

you know that you actually can break generational curses, you can break family lines, you can break patterns, but you have to show up and do the work, and that you know. I kind of keep reiterating that, but I love to get them dreaming about. Oh, I don't have to fall back into that family culture and we do goal setting at the last session. But what are, you know, what are some goals that you have, that short-term, mid-term, long-term. And I even encourage them to create a mission statement, you know, for their new family, even if it's just the two of them, like, this is family. I said, what you start from the beginning is going to be easier when you start that in a healthy way and healthy patterns.

Speaker 2:

It'll be easier when you integrate kids into the mix because, as you know, that kind of can become a little wonky and wacky with young kids, but if you already have those patterns established, it's going to be a lot easier. And speaking of healthy, it's interesting because I tell my clients I actually don't necessarily want you to live happily ever after, I want you to live healthily ever after. I want you to have an always healthy, mostly happy, because sometimes having a healthy relationship, you're not happy, but you for a season or a second, you know. But it promotes connection and once you're connected and you get rid of those unhealthy things that are impeding connection on all levels, that is going to lead, you know, to some type of happiness, if you so choose. However, you and I both know, and I've told people, that it's not your job to make your husband happy.

Speaker 2:

Isn't that a shocker? Yes, it is my job to choose to have joy in the Lord, and you know, of course I look at it from a Christian perspective, but even from a non-Christian perspective, it's my job to choose to be happy, no matter what the behavior is. And if there is some behavior that makes it harder for me to be joyful or happy, it's my responsibility to speak up about it. And then, if there's not a change, then yes, there's some boundaries and parameters and, yep, we need to go through this or go there. But that, I think, is a huge lie of we. Actually this assessment has built in rose colored glasses like a litmus test for that and it has a built in instrument in there where we do talk about. You get especially the young starry-eyed. Sometimes I work with really young couples and they're just like I. Nothing, nothing could ever make me not love my husband ever, and I will always be in love and.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, okay, honey, well, and so, yes, I think the Lord does have amazing fruit and wonderful things and fulfilling wonderful marriage. That is just hard. But I think it's pretty unrealistic in our fallen world to think that we're going to be, you know, we're going to have a heavenly marriage. This side of heaven we're.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, right, right, absolutely. I mean Isaiah and I was definitely that young couple that was like, oh, this is great, all we need is love. Right, right, absolutely. I mean Isaiah and I was definitely that young couple that was like, oh, this is great and all we need is love. Yes, we got love and that's all we need. And I feel like literally the next day after marriage, I was like, oh, this, okay, we are going to take a short break. Listeners, don't go anywhere. Stay tuned. We are going to talk about what do you do when maybe you think you're getting married too soon or maybe these assessment results don't seem to line up in the way you thought. So, stay tuned, we'll be back after this short break.

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Speaker 1:

All right listeners. So we are back with Denise Payne and we are talking some good nuggets about marriage, payne, and we are talking some good nuggets about marriage and I really want to say just about relationships and communication and preparing for marriage. And so as we come back from break, denise, I just have to ask, because I'm sure that our couples that come in and they're like we're getting married next month or next week, right? Or couples that even come in and they look at their results and it seems like we're very much so incompatible, like what do you tell couples in that position?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'll talk about the incompatibility piece first. My husband and I, as part of the training, we had to take the assessment and we were the failures of the class and we've been married like at that point I don't know 15 years or something like that, but we were very opposite and I like to call it complimentary. So that's how I reframe a lot when I work with a couple. But our kids are really balanced. It was like I'm one extreme, easy. We have really healthy, balanced kids in the middle.

Speaker 2:

But we were at that point in time we had 100% compatibility and spiritual beliefs and so when you have a, spiritual beliefs are really compatible. That just kind of trickles down to every area. And but I do again kind of what I prefaced earlier at the beginning of the show, that if you do have some imbalances again there's tools, you can do the work. And also I will say that you change through the years and to say, hey, like maybe right now they are coming from where finances were not a high value. They're a hot mess with their finances, but that can change and you could take this in a couple of years and your finances are, you know, 100 percent or 80, 90 percent compatible.

Speaker 2:

So we talk about that. And then also, I feel like sometimes God does like to look at what the Lord's doing and I feel like sometimes God does bring those people that are not two peas in a pod, so to speak, or you know many clones of themselves, and he iron, stripping iron, and he, he knows what he's doing. I mean, there's even my husband has his own business. I help him a bit here and there but I support him in a way where I do some bookkeeping and some other things, but my like helpmate supporting in that, like that's part of the incompatibility, personality, but yet it's a huge benefit for him and it's a benefit for us as we co-labor together in that. So to also just reframe it doesn't mean you're going to have a horrible marriage.

Speaker 2:

And, and so there's, there's ways also just to give each other grace. In that too, I think it makes you a lot less self-focused and selfish when you have to look at things from that other person's perspective and to actually have patience and grace to say, hey, this is a growth area, but I have this area of weakness and so you can help me grow in that area. And so, yeah, so we talk about that. And then the getting married too soon, you know, I honestly I don't think that incompatibility is a red flag. There's two red flags.

Speaker 2:

One, we do have an instrument that's built in with a test that talks about like a dominating personality, and if there's flavors of like abuse, even verbal or emotional, that would definitely be something. I would just go in right, get in right there. And so there's that piece. And then, when people who are really for them, and especially other believers, that when there's all kinds of bells and whistles where people are like I'm not, you know, comfortable with this and this does not feel like. You know, I prayed for you, I've been praying for you forever. People you've allowed to speak into your life. You're always going to have that one weird cousin that's like you guys shouldn't get married, it's because that cousin wants to get married and is jealous.

Speaker 2:

But you know, in general, like there, if there are a lot of, you know, solid people, especially believers and some family members I know there's some unhealthy family members you need to take that with a grain of salt, but if they're like, hey, we would really prefer you wait. I can't tell you how many, because I have a lot of friends now with adult children. I can't tell you how many friends that they've advised their children Please just wait a year. And they didn't, and they're divorced now, you know. And so I think, just listening and if you aren't there, be listening to that, you know, just listening to people who love and want to cheer you and champion you the most, and if they're like, no red flags or you know.

Speaker 2:

Let's go then that, even if they're young, because I've also seen super young couples that are great, you know. So it's not necessarily I don't. I've worked with couples honestly in the fifties and sixties that are more immature than these 1920 year olds, and a lot of it's Jesus right and we, our spirit doesn't age, and so some of it's where they're just really locked in with the Lord and really mature in the Lord and that's what God's doing. Go for it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, you know, there's a super key part that I can't pass up. Is Jesus in the mix? Right, like when I think about all the times and all the crisis and all the things that even my husband and I went through, the thing that always kept us grounded, and even we would not be together today if it was not for our spiritual beliefs both being compatible. Because, at the end of the day, it is like, hey, we may not like, I may not agree with maybe, what you're saying, but I do believe that the Bible is the truth and I believe that that's our guideline. Do believe that the Bible is the truth and I believe that that's our guideline. And so, as much as I may go down kicking and screaming, I am going to follow this because this is the principle and the Lord is my savior. And so I think and I can see why, you know spiritual beliefs would be a huge asset in this compatibility component. Right, because if everything else isn't compatible, if that's there, I believe that, first of all, you're open to receiving for change. Right, that's right. Yeah, and I think, even when we consider empathy, right, like when we have things that come up, knowing what your spouse maybe is strong in and knowing what their weakness is in and you, being able to have open communication, open conversations, then allows empathy, right? I mean I can go back to, like looking at Isaiah and I. I was not the strongest in holding to the budget because I did not grow up having to do such Right, and he was very strong in it.

Speaker 1:

So, after you know, after times of arguing a few years into the beginning of our marriage and then finally doing the work and understanding like, where is this coming from? What trauma is there behind this? What were you taught that money was used for, like you know, and there became an understanding. It was like, oh well, you understood that saying yes or money was leading to love, and so there was a certain empathy that came along with that. I could be empathetic to understanding. You're not just trying to tell me no to getting my nails done, like you. Really, this is your way of showing love because you want to protect us from going through some of the things that you experience. Going through some of the things that you experience. So then there's a level of empathy that we can have healthy conversation, not out of like fighting, and I got to prove that I'm right and my way is the way, but more of out of a conversation of grace.

Speaker 2:

So good yeah, love that.

Speaker 1:

Yes, okay, and so you know, as we get ready to close out, time always goes so fast. But as we get ready to close out, one of the things that I do want to talk about is the aspect of when you have a marriage. When you're in a marriage and it's been long term, right, like we're 20 years in, right, how do you keep that marriage from being stale? Right, that newness and that la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la la. I just so love him? Maybe it's not sitting there, maybe you've got accustomed to like this is our routine, because I think sometimes routines can be damaging to us. But how do you keep that marriage lively? Like, how do you get out of that stillness?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so a couple things, I think you know. I think back to when my husband and I were empty nesters and he loves to mountain bike and always has, and I grew up dancing tap dance, but, like you know that, and I'm not, you know, not a big mountain biker, don't really enjoy that, but we, I ended up getting an e bike and so that was a thing where I chose to join in in the way that I felt comfortable. So I don't mountain bike, but it's a road bike and it's an e-bike and so we, we started doing bike rides together and so that was a huge different thing that we added into our marriage. So we brainstormed new day ideas, like through the years we've done ballroom dancing or you know, just different things that, uh, to keep things fresh. So to brainstorm day ideas, because also in our fifties our idea of fun is different than it was in our we were married in our early twenties, you know, um, and then also to to not be afraid, to also keep evolving your culture in your home, and so to sit down and go do we have a new mission statement? You know, through the seasons with introducing kids or kids or in teens, you know to not be afraid to sit down.

Speaker 2:

Like you said, we actually goal set as well.

Speaker 2:

We fast that day and we goal set, um, try to do on the 1st January, 1st, but, um, but we'll do goals for business, goals for our marriage, goals for our kids.

Speaker 2:

How can we go, even when we have adult children, how can we help our kids achieve their goals? And they'll do their goals and tell us, you know, and then we kind of go together how can we support them? I mean, we have financial goals, we have, and and so I think too, like one of our goals might be all right, what are we going to do differently in our marriage this year? What are we going to, you know? And, of course, like, go to that conference, get, get some non-crisis marriage counseling, read those books. But I think just don't ever be afraid to keep evolving and changing. And because we, we are as individuals, why would we not think that our marriage, yes, do that with us. And I think people just get stuck back, like you said, that routine can be an enemy, like we just get stuck back into Tuesday night, date nights, you know and um and to also get creative.

Speaker 2:

We had a season where finances were really tight because we've been entrepreneurs and you know how that goes.

Speaker 2:

Yes, oh yes, it is the wave, it is the feast or famine, and so we had a famine season where we actually weren't dating. We went a whole year with really not going on dates because of finances. And then we got creative. We said we're going to buy a chimney, we're going to have an outdoor, you know fireplace thing, we're going to just have a glass of wine those on those are very nice glass of wine by the chimney and that was so great for our marriage. And we, we let, like our finances, we let the whatever the busyness, we let that all you have to protect. It's like a garden, you know, they say don't let those little foxes get into the garden. And finances were little socks for us. You have to tend it and so, yeah, just to really look at it its own entity. You have yourself and your spouse and your marriage, and sometimes you actually do choices that are better for this that aren't even necessarily better for individually, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I love that. So when we got married, my husband was coming out of playing football and baseball and I initially had played basketball but was not really into like going to the gym, weightlifting, right. And so he always was like, oh, I'd love for you to go to the gym with me, and I'd be like this is not my thing, right? Well, recently, probably thanks to a little perimenopause and all these great things happening in the body, I have found an amazing joy for going and weightlifting Like I really enjoy it. But talk about change, right. So 20 years ago you could not get me to go with him to the gym. I was like adamant, like this is not the thing for me to do. And now I'm like waking up at 6am like you want to go with me. He's like no, I don't, you're driving that train, I love it, yes. So change like where you have to be willing to like take the change. One of the things that I've been telling myself so consistently, especially in the season, is don't put on a winter coat when it's summer.

Speaker 2:

That's right.

Speaker 1:

You know, recognize the season you're in and and bring the tools for that season. And it's okay that the season changes. God created seasons, that's right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and don't be afraid that season, and it's okay that the season changes. God created seasons, that's right. Yes, and don't be afraid if there's a winter in your marriage, because it literally could just be for a week. Or it could be on for a good piece. Of you know, and that's the thing is I share with my clients, Like it's not. Like okay, year one was amazing and then it went downhill.

Speaker 2:

It's like year 11 was fantastic, Year 16 was great, Year 27 was cool, Year two was sucked you know, it's just like I mean, but you got to just press through and say you know, just to there's so it's so much richer as you fall in love with your husband all over again when he holds your baby.

Speaker 2:

That just came out of your womb you know, I mean it's just you know. I mean, when you go through these experiences together and you bond and you see aging parents and all these things, you're just. Every season brings a challenge but also brings opportunity to connect and again just transform your marriage along with it. But I love what you said Embrace the season that is in and also know changes come around the corner. But it's kind of exciting too.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, absolutely Well, as always, I have enjoyed our time together. Oh, I can see you'll be back on again, I hope. Like I'm just speaking it, but I hope. I received that, oh goodness, okay. So, as always, please tell our listeners how can they connect with you, to connect with these resources.

Speaker 2:

So I have a website. It's called Christian Premarital Counselor and so you can go on that, and then Instagram, facebook is all Christian Premarital Counselor, so just kind of type that in. But Denise Payne and my face should pop up and I'm sure in the show notes you'll probably have those resources as well. But yeah, I have people that have just found me through my website and I've worked with people all over the nation just by pop, you know, googling Christian premarital cancer popping up and and we've had some great connection, even if you know we're we're in different States and, I hope, different countries too. That's one of my goals.

Speaker 1:

So, yes, oh, I love it. I love it. Well, if you're a listener and you're international, denise has you reach out to her. Oh, all right. Graceful community. As always, we are so grateful that you would take the time and tune in and listen in and, more importantly, invest in yourself through taking time with this podcast. If you do not have a community, you know we believe community is uber important around here. So, if you do not have a community and you're seeking community, we welcome you to join our online community and we want to connect you with resources near you so that you can build a Graceville community of your own. As always, stay tuned for the next one. Follow us on Instagram, facebook, youtube, all the spaces to get our newsletters, our updates, all the resources that we have for you to continue growing in your journey and your walk with our good Lord and Savior. Take care. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Graceville Community Podcast. We would like to invite you to visit gracevillecommunitycom.

Speaker 1:

Graceville Community is all about doing church the way Church of Acts did, using five main principles that we see in the Book of Acts. Sharing resources, as believers pooled their possessions and resources to support those in need, as we see in Acts 2.44. Through hospitality the early Christians practiced hospitality by opening their homes to others, as we see in Acts 2.46. By financial aid the church in Antioch sent financial aid to believers in Judea during a time of famine, as described in Acts 11 and 29. Prayer and encouragement they supported each other through prayer and encouragement, as we see in Acts 4 and 24. And finally, spiritual guidance the apostles and elders provided spiritual guidance and teaching to help strengthen and build the community, as we see in Acts 15 30. I would like to encourage you. If any of those areas are areas in which you are in need or can contribute, please reach out to Graceville Community. We are working together across the world with ministries and individuals alike to help bring back the Church of Acts.

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Nicole Cater

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