#012 Warflower - Robert Stark

In this episode of The State I Am In, I sit down with Alaskan author, veteran, and homesteader Bob Stark. Bob’s story takes us from the wide-open beaches of Nome, to life in Eagle River and Seward, to the battlefields of Iraq as an airborne infantry soldier, and finally to his family homestead in Happy Valley. Along the way, he shares how identity, family, and faith were shaped through experiences of hardship, loss, and resilience. 

We talk about what it was like growing up in a home marked by addiction and incarceration, and how those early years influenced the way Bob saw himself. He opens up about his service in Iraq, the adrenaline and fear of combat, the brotherhood of the infantry, and the challenges of reintegration when he returned home at just 22 years old. We also explore his struggles with addiction, the role of spirituality in his life, and how writing his books Warflower and Just Like a Soldier helped him process what he had been through. 

Today, Bob is raising a family and working his land in Happy Valley, proof that healing and growth are possible even after walking through the darkest chapters. His reflections on service, sacrifice, and fatherhood offer a perspective that is raw, human, and deeply Alaskan. 

Follow the links below to connect with Bob, explore his website, and find his books Warflower and Just Like a Soldier. 

Website: www.secretgardenalaska.org

Facebook: Robert Stark

Youtube: @SecretGardenAlaska

Purchase Books on Amazon

Transcript

You care if I call you Bob? That's how Bethany introduced you. call me Bob. My friends call me Bob and I'd say that you just bought me a cup of coffee. you know, our friends. It's pretty easy man. It is. is. Like I was telling you earlier, I'm glad Bethany from Inkwells and Soldotna like reached out and said, hey, I got this guy. He's a vet.

lives out in Happy Valley, like has a little homestead, real cool story. yeah. He's written a couple of books. And for me, just like starting this thing out, you know, this podcast has only been around for six months and I've got 10 episodes, you know, and, really trying to just capture the cool stories that are in Alaska and the, especially ones that people are open to sharing. I was like, sweet. so yeah, huge shout out to Bethany.

But man, thanks for being like, yeah, I'll drive from Happy Valley to hang out in Nikiski.

I think I told you this, I read your books kind of in a interesting season. So this summer, I wanted to get your books read before we actually talked, just because I think that's way it should go. So I have a deeper understanding of, you know, your story and then just you as a person. And so I went on a family camping trip I mean, like this book smells like campfire.

Like still, just sitting on the river, know, reading that in some of the most beautiful scenic places Alaska has to offer and just reading your story. just kind of was fitting. It was cool, man. And I was rooting for you just as a spectator, know, on the other side of the page and then get back from that camping trip. And I'd already started Warflower and

then I get admitted to the hospital for some like crazy throat infection and got to read your story, you know, about your time in Iraq and building off of that, you know, once you got back. so we've kind of been through some stuff, even though we're just meeting today for the first time, it's kind of paralleled some highs and lows in my own life and super thankful that you're here, man. So in my mind, you are the war flower.

having the warflower himself, ⁓ on the, on the podcast is pretty cool. thank you. Thank you very much. so my last guest, her journey ended at Nome. was, an Iditarod musher. That's kind of where yours kicks off as far as you being in Alaska, you were born in Idaho and how did you end up in Nome? Well,

My mother left my father and brought my brother and I to Nome to live with my uncle. And I don't know exactly what age I was. I believe it was before one years old. I always say I moved to Nome when I was within like six months to a year. And so I lived in Nome from that age as a baby up until the first day, the day before third grade.

Right around eight years old, I believe, when I moved to Eagle River. Gotcha. Do you have any memories of that Iditarod and stuff like that as a Oh, of course, man. Those are like my heroes. Yeah. When I was a kid, we'd go out there every year and watch. You know, we did the "Idita-read" Oh, yeah. And I always try to win. Yeah. You know, just I loved reading and I loved watching them. I loved sports. Yeah. You know, those were some of the greatest athletes. Dee Dee Johnrow, Susan Butcher. For some reason, I really rooted for those women. Yeah. Probably because I was

mama's boy and the thought of like these strong women running that race and training these dogs. And yeah, we'd go out there and congratulate them and be involved every step of the way that we could. think it's, they had that big ceremonial start in Anchorage, but I don't think, unless you're like a super fan, I don't know how many people go out there to, I mean, I know it's giant. I know there is a lot of people to finish, but to live out there and experience that. Pretty cool. Yeah.

So if you're living with your uncle in a Nome what was the trip to Eagle River? Like what got you out of Nome? Yeah. So living with my uncle there and then my mother met a man who was in the national guard and they hit it off. They ended up getting married. We moved in with him and that's when he got transferred. I don't remember those details because I was so young. I don't know much about the national guard, but I believe he got transferred from there in Nome.

down to the Anchorage base. At that time it was Fort Rich. And then he started working there. He was a major. And so that was the reason why we moved from Nome to Eagle River. And I loved it in Nome. I haven't been back every year. I want to go back and visit, but there's also the cost of flying to Nome with...

The fear that my memories are false. I want to hold those memories that I cherish with all my heart of growing up there. But I'm nervous that if I go back, it's going to be like, it wasn't an endless sandy beach. Oh, it was actually a lot of paved roads and it's a lot bigger. I've looked at the population and realized, oh, it wasn't this tiny town that I thought it was. It's actually much larger than some of the towns I've lived in after.

So preserving those memories. I mean, it probably did grow, you know, like most places. mean, maybe Alaska doesn't grow as fast, I'm sure it is a little bit bigger and more developed maybe than you remember, but still off the road system. Yeah, that's for sure. Still cold, wicked storms in the winter, man. Did you feel like moving to Eagle river was like an upgrade? Like, were you excited? Like, oh, Hey, like we're moving to civilization, you know? No, not at all. No, not in the least bit, you know, that.

That age, all I did all the time was play outside, playing all the time. And the thought of us moving somewhere else, I was bummed. Cause I was leaving friends, you know, like any kid that age. Then I got there and I remember there being trees and there being baseball and there being other things for me to get involved in. But it was really, it was a shock how big the town was that we moved to.

So yeah, I wasn't excited. Gotcha.

I can understand how if that's all you knew, it just playing outside, wide open spaces, tiny town.

to having friends and then to move, you don't know anything else. So of course moving into a bigger place like that's gonna be a little scary. Yeah, I look back on it now that you bring it up and I remember, I there was a huge change because I went from playing on a beach, endless beach with four wheeler and fish and whales and.

gravel roads and fist fights and I mean the wild west really for a little boy with it felt like no rules. We were just building forts. I mean anything we wanted to do we could do it. It felt safe. So all of a sudden I was in Eagle River where everything was paved and the kids weren't dirty like I was. They weren't rabble rousing. They were following these like cultural rules for.

this suburb, this rich little city. And so no longer was I playing on a beach or chasing after fish and getting in fist fights. I swear to God, my last fist fight was probably when I was eight years old. I mean, that's incorrect, but because really those things stayed there. And then all of a sudden we were in like civilization. And I'm so glad that after a few years of in that suburb, I moved to Seward because then I kind of got back to those like

that kind of middle ground, wasn't as wild as it felt like Nome was, but it's still back to that like on the sea, with the mountains, with the woods, and not just about like popularity and grades and sports, which I think are great. But I like the wildness of Alaska. That's why I live here. So this so getting to Seward to one, I mean, I love Seward. Seward is probably one of my favorite places.

that my eyes have seen in Alaska and the fjords and just, especially once you get out on the water and you start going out, mean, you described that really well in your books. it puts you there and especially having visited there, you're like, I know where that's at. I know I've been there. I know what he's talking about there. It's cool to kind of connect with that, but what got you there? like mom's kind of bouncing around a little bit in the timeframe from, you know,

I think you said third grade issue left Nome and then you're an eagle river. And then at what point did you get to Seward? Yeah. So when we lived in Eagle river, living in that large community brought certain problems. I know these problems are everywhere around the world, no doubt about it. And one of the problems was addiction. So at a young age, my brother started getting into things that he shouldn't have gotten into.

He started running with the wrong crew, blah, blah, blah. by the time he was, I think he was in ninth grade, maybe 10th grade, he committed a crime, armed robbery. So he did this armed robbery. was 15, maybe 16 years old. He got charged and tried as an adult and he got sent from McLaughlin or Cook Inlet pre-trial there in Anchorage to Spring Creek Correctional, maximum security prison in Seward.

My mom and her husband at the time, were having, well, I think they were always having rough times. He was very much like many fathers, bless their souls, that I provide financially, but I'm checked out emotionally, physically, I don't do nothing with ya, make me dinner, woman, that type of guy. And he was 15 years older than my mother. And so I don't think my mom,

Based on the pictures, she would never say it. She was a very much keep the emotions in type lady, bless her heart. But I don't think she was happy during those eight years of their marriage. And so, you know, she was looking for ways out. I think she was kind of trolling the seas, if you will. And my brother doing that, and then for years my brother was running away, getting into things that caused a lot of stress in the family at home.

especially with my mother who was always looking for him, trying to help him, sending him to this thing or that thing or this school or that school. And he'd always find a way out and then get back on the streets and be the runaway kid doing drugs. sometimes when that happens, it seems like the siblings get, you know, dragged along for that too. You know, you guys are kind of like partners in crime. Did you feel that or experience that at all with him? Or are you like the golden child while your brother was running around being crazy? Yeah, not. I was too young. OK.

to be involved at that time. He's three years older than me, so I was probably sixth grade. was still just like, I remember finding a bag of pot in his cassette player and being like, what is this? I had no idea. And I brought it to my mom, and my mom was like, ⁓ okay. And so I wasn't involved. I was skateboarding with him and his friends, but.

I didn't partake. Like I had no idea what they were up to. Gotcha. And so, yeah, make a long story short, those things happened. My brother went away. My mother was searching for a way out through a weird series of events. met a man who was in Spring Creek as a prisoner. He had been there at that point for 15 years and he was sentenced to life without parole. So my mother left her husband at the time.

and was like, I'm moving to Seward. That was her out. That's it. I'm going. And I was a freshman at Chugiak at the time. She's like, son, I'm going. You can come with me or you can stay. And that was really one of the big turning points in my life of having to make a big decision like that. Like, I'm a man. Yeah. You know, which I wasn't. I was 14 or something, but I chose to stay in Seward or in

in Eagle River. I finished my ninth grade year in Eagle River, living in a friend's basement with his mom and stuff. And then I moved down to Seward. And my mother got married. You know, she got divorced in the same year, I believe she got married, 1999, I think it was. And her and that man who was and still is in prison, stayed married for 13 years. So he was never going to get out. mean, your mom knew.

from day one that this guy wasn't going to see like, the light of day on the other side of those prison walls. but something connected them to enough to where she's like, I'm going to, I'm going to marry you. No, that's incorrect. I think with a lot of prisoners, I know with a lot, even those guys who are lifers, there's that glimmer of hope. I spent so many years writing letters, appealing.

writing more letters, appealing. I mean, she was like this guy's lawyer, if you will. like on his like legally on his behalf, not just letters to him. No, there was always that hope that he would go up for parole and he would be able to get out. So there was, I mean, I don't know my mother's intimate details, but my understanding is that they never slept with each other. And in those 13 years of seeing my mother grow from

an heavily overweight, drinking all the time, smoking cigarettes, unhealthy person into like a very lean, healthy, happy woman that she was and wanted to be all through this like verbal dialogue. It became a spiritual connection that, know, they would always, when we dream tonight, you know, a lot of talking, a lot just

verbal communication that many relationships don't have, especially the one she had before that. So we're like even long distance, you know, sometimes people view a long distance relationship where all you have to do is talk on the phone as like a, that's probably not going to work out, but interesting. for whatever reason, she, it was kind of life changing meeting this man and having that relationship. Yeah. And you know, I've learned as I've grown older that many of the women

prison wives. I don't know, there's probably a prison husbands group out there. I've never been involved with them. I don't know them, but I did meet a lot of prison wives. My understanding was that a lot of them been hurt real bad, man, by the people who were closest to them, you know, different traumas. And my mother was one, she was a victim of, of incestual rape. And so you know, those types of effects from your own family, make it where she was safe, married to a murderer.

Because she didn't have to worry about what would happen to her at home. And she was able to grow, you know, she would visit him I'm going to say every day, but it wasn't cause she worked full time, but all the weekends, you know, she was always taking pictures. Like she felt pretty, she would wear nice clothes and then she got verbal validation, not financial from him, but you know, they were on this whole different plane that set a different

example for me going forward, not only as a man, it's like, this is something you can provide a woman instead of just like physical, you know, which I thought before that, like, that's all it was. Yeah. It's like, there's this whole other side of the human experience, which is spirituality, just encouragement instead of just like, what can I get from you? know, so more than just a transaction physically. ⁓

Man, that's crazy. I've never heard a story like that or someone doing that. And there's so many folks, man. I'm one of thousands and thousands. I'm going to say hundreds of thousands. I don't know the numbers of prisoners in the United States of America. But every one of them prisoners has a family. And all the families like mine don't seem to talk about it because there's so much shame regarding it.

that, you know, we just isolate. And so there's this whole network, just like military families, there's a whole network of prison wives, prison families, they go and they visit each other and stay with each other because they're going to go visit here or they write letters for each other for appeals and paroles or they get married to, I mean, it's an underground network. even though this guy wasn't your father, like your biological father, did he have much influence in your life like a father?

Definitely. Yeah, he did and he still does you know, it's ⁓ I haven't had the chance to visit him in years But the things that he taught me regarding how to treat a woman both good and bad You know, he was like I can only understand a lot of men in prison. He was hyper He was a little jealous, you know a little controlling

Like many of us can be. But if you don't know what your spouse is ever doing, you can never see them. You can't validate them and be physical with them. I would imagine I'd probably be pretty worried too. And so, yeah, he influenced me greatly. And one of the biggest ways is intellectually and spiritually. Because he was, and I imagine still is, one of the most elegant speakers. One the most well-read humans I'd ever met.

deep into faith of all different backgrounds that he had done his studies. He was a Muslim for a while and then he became a Christian and then he was going back and forth. He wasn't just one who was raised a certain way. Yeah. Interesting. So how long was he in prison by the time like you guys got introduced, like, you know, your lives intersected? I believe about 15 years. He went away when he was in his early twenties. Okay.

And I believe my mother and him met and got married when he was in his late thirties. So, you know, at least 15 years. So you identify yourself at that point as a prison kid, I think is what you said. Like, you know, you get to Seward and, and, you know, you have this new identity and you want to talk about how your life, you know,

changed once you got to Seward. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, when I was in Eagle River, I had become a baseball star. Of course, it's just in my mind. I don't think anybody would remember me as a baseball star besides me and my mother, you know? But I was all about baseball. Baseball, riding bikes, skateboarding. I wasn't really excelling in academics. I just, I'm too hyper.

to be able to sit still and learn that way. So I never did well, but in the physical. so I was like, people had big hopes and dreams for me, especially myself. And I was raised in a suburb, know, not only Eagle River, but we had like a house up in the neighborhood, Eaglewood subdivision and yeah, nice house, nice family, all bike paths around, you know, the outside, we the dogs and the fence, you know.

And then my brother was that like kind of hidden stepchild that families try to cover up. And you know, on the outside we all look good, but inside there was a lot of turmoil. And it wasn't just him. There's so much more going on beneath that. Reasons for him to do things he had done. so I went from really being in that space to,

this stuff started happening and I started smoking pot. Just here and there with my buddies in Eagle River still. And then I started drinking a little bit, just a few times, based on either role models who had hidden some whiskey here and there or cousins who were older who thought it was funny and cool to introduce their little cousins to drinking at a young age, which I don't think is funny or cool at all.

I went from that experimental phase to now I'm moving to Seward, the small town where there's no baseball, which I was like your son. I thought I was going to be a professional big leaguer. At least go to college and play baseball. You know, I had made varsity at Chugiak High I was the only one to make varsity. My remembrance, I may be wrong. John Rivera might call me out and say, you were wrong about that. I might be, but that was my remembrance.

I didn't play that season because my mother moved and these changes started happening. So when I got to Seward, there I was, you know, everybody knew like I was the new kid who started and for some reason, somehow everybody in small towns, they seem to know things. They knew why, you know, there's prison guards who knew my mother was with this guy and then that just started leaking around. My brother's there. So I very quickly.

Maybe they didn't identify me as that, but I identified myself as this prison kid. My brother's in there. My mom's married to this dude in there. I'm so ashamed. Like I'm so embarrassed. Everywhere I go, like this is my family. This is my mom. Now we're living in a motel and she's working at the front desk of some hotel. And then we get into an equal housing opportunity place that everybody in town calls crack side.

because well, that's where you get crack and other drugs. But I mean, dude, we had a view of resurrection Bay is like, I never had a better view. Equal housing. Man. And so I really, I took that identity. Nobody gave it to me. I created that for myself. so then I stopped playing any sports. I started smoking pot all the time and drinking and

That just got worse and worse until I started getting into upper grades. I did try track. I'm only saying this because I listened to your podcast about team sports and the effects they have on kids. And I did do track, but that same year I got kicked out my mom's apartment because I wasn't listening. And that dude kicked me out. And it was a laughing stock of my friends.

Your prisoner dad kicks you out of the house. You know? And so then I was like, dang, everybody's laughing at me. But I learned a lot from that. I mistreated my mom. I was trying to do whatever I could and she wasn't able to handle a teenage boy who was just like doing whatever the hell he wanted. So he kicked me out. Make a long story short, I only did track for like a few practices. And then I did play football one season, but I ended up getting injured early on, jumping into a lake, cutting my toe.

So I was out for two weeks and then I was one those kids who would just like get stoned and go to school and smoke cigarettes on my walk and someone saw me smoking. So then I got, whenever, suspended for two weeks. And I remember going to my coach and be like, I'm going to quit. And he gave me that talk. Like, if you quit this, this is going be something that you're going to do the rest of your life is quitting. Don't quit. Stick this out. And I hated him for that, but I did.

I stuck it out. played two games. My football career is two games and they were awesome. But you know, I went away from athletics, away from academics completely into just I'm a stoner, a drunk. That's my identity. And I don't care about anything or anyone. Do you think because like that judgment, that rep was already there when you got there, like you said, a small town, people kind of talk and like,

kind of give you the quick judgment, like, there's this new family in town, know, mom is dating this guy or married this guy in prison, you know, that already has a family member, your brother was already there as well. Do you think that you were just like, all right, if this is what people are gonna say from day one, I'm not gonna, might as well just prove them right. Like, you feel like you thought that at all? ⁓ I definitely thought that. Yeah, no doubt about it. And I remember clearly,

that in the same day at the skateboard park, there was a kid who was like, wow, we've heard of you from Knick Little League. You have to play for our Little League team. Like you're such an asset to this community. And that same day, there was another guy whose father was the superintendent of the prison. And he was like, wow, Victor Stern is your father?

Like that is one of the most terrifying guys in the prison. Like my father's told us stories of that man. That's your father. And in that same day, I had those two experiences. And the one I jumped onto was that one. The, oh my God, he knows this. And I know he's telling him and him and him. And now this whole network of people who actually really cared about me.

And the teachers did too, and they still do. But yeah, I jumped right on board with that. I'm like, that's my identity. You guys think of me like that? I'm going to show you. You're right. And I don't care. Yeah. You just ran with it. How did you, because you graduated high school, you didn't drop out, did you? No. So you made it at least to that milestone. Yeah. How does that, how did that?

How that work out? Yeah, I ended up being one of those kids who I don't know how it worked out exactly, but I would go to school like on Monday. My memory may serve me incorrectly. I would go to school on a Monday. I'd get all my work and I'd go home and I'd do it. know, I had so many tardies, far exceeded the tard, absences. Absences, okay. But, you know.

somehow and one of them is through after school, some of those helpers, you the aides, Martha Fleming, Jackie Marshall, these two women who took me under their wing and were like, we're going to do everything we can to get this kid to graduate. Cause then it got to a point like my senior year where I didn't know if I was going to be able to graduate. I had a bunch of absences. got kicked out of a couple of classes I needed and they talked to the teacher who then

they were able to come up with plan. was kind of like, don't know if at that time they were ILPs, but it seemed like I was under an ILP that I just had to do these certain things and I was gonna be able to graduate and I did. So yes. At some point you see this army recruiter, I don't know, in the book I kinda, you kinda.

give this great imagery. It's almost like there's a light shining on like, like, you know, which is, is kind of interesting knowing your kind of the spot that you were at, man. I was just like, you know what, middle finger to the world. I'm going to do what you guys think I am anyways, smoking, drinking, doing drugs, you know, barely making it through school. But there was something about the military that was like, maybe there's a new identity for me after high school and

and you jumped, you jumped for it, know, literally. Do you want to talk about, you know, that, that thought process? Yeah, for sure. My mother's from a military family. My grandfather was in Vietnam. All of his sons were in the military. I don't know beyond him, but I know that basically all the members of my family that were men were military on that side.

My mother always spoke highly of men in uniform, whether they were police officers, troopers, soldiers, firemen. Like those were the backbone of our culture and our society. And prisoners, you know, she liked that uniform. But so I think in there, not to mention the little GI Joes I always played with and going to the base, know, in Nome, would go there almost every day.

where my stepfather worked or my uncle, because he was also National Guard, they worked together. And we'd go there. Maybe it wasn't a base. It was a gym. I just remember going to the gymnasium. So the National Guard is like really spread out in the state. It's not normally like that in the lower 48. But we have these little pockets, right? So that you can be in the National Guard and then have these armories is what they call them around the state. And you have full timers that are there. But then yeah, you have this big hub there.

But yeah, and most of the times though, they are just a big gym. Yeah, that's where we would go. The armory. That's right. And so I think all those things were implanted in my mind and heart. And then I always wanted to be heroic, honorable, trustworthy, strong. I wanted to be a good man that people looked up to. I wanted to be brave. And I didn't want to just spend my life

smoking pot, playing video games, working on fishing boats, going to prison. Nothing against those things, if that's what people do, live your own life, that's great, but that's not what I wanted. I always sought out adventure. I wanted adventure and travel. I never thought I wanna go to war somewhere. No, I just thought of I want adventure and travel.

And I need to get out of this cycle I'm in. And then I saw the recruiter. He came in the school like many recruiters do. And like you said, and like was exemplified in the book, it was like looking up at Jesus, if you will. And you're a believer of that. Like the light was shining. He was more confident than anyone I'd ever seen. He was full of badges.

and experience and strength. He was strong and I wanted exactly that man. And so it did not take long for me to be like, yes, I want to do this. And I did. You were 17 at the time. You went to Fort Benning. You wanted to be an infantryman, right?

I think about when I went to basic training, I went as I was the old man in my basic training. I decided later on in life I was going to join. I think I was 25 at the time and you got all these 17, 18 year olds there. There were some other people my age, few older than me. And I remember on day one, they were like, they told us, you know, we're all standing there and there's like, he want the drill sergeant wanted to make clear that

there is a bunch of different people from all walks of life here. You have the people that their dads, dads, dad served in the military and they're here upholding their family honor. You have the people that it was either come here or go to jail. You got the people that were, know, the rich families. He's like, you have people here that didn't know where their next meal was gonna come from. And for me, I was like, man, that really...

puts it in perspective. And it's like, look around, it's black, white, Asian, you know, all walks of life. And he told us, you're gonna be one unit and we have one mission and one goal. And it was interesting for me, not even thinking about that at all. How did that affect you when you were coming from where you were at, you know, in your life up until that point to now you're part of this new club, this new...

potential for identity. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know that it was a huge shocker because I was completely out of shape. Very weak. I thought I was like one of the strongest kids around. I was so weak. I was actively drinking.

I stopped smoking pot like two weeks before going to basics. I was worried they were going to test me. I was snorting pills, you know? And so I go there and I'm drinking every day. I ended up trying to back out of it. You know, I was set to leave three days after graduation when I was 17. And I remember calling the recruiter before then, like a couple of weeks before being like, can I push it to the end of summer? Because my friends were getting me this job or that job.

and girls and all these fears and really just habits. And he was like, Nope, we've already paid for you to go. Here's your slot. You've got to go. And so I think one of the biggest things for me getting there was, man, I'm pretty sure I detox at Fort Benning. You know, I was surrounded. I remember just getting there and them shaving my head, going through the uniforms, just sidestepping.

You know, eyes down or eyes forward, no talking, you know, just doing what I'm told. mean, all the way down to like time to go to the bathroom, you know, just not moving at all. Just standing there, parade rest or attention, ⁓ side stepping. And I needed it, dude. I needed it because I was doing whatever I wanted before that. And I really did at that point in Seward Like I remember not trying to be vulgar on here or whatever, but

there was a dude who'd come down and he was a black dude. And he'd come down with the Coke. And then I'd go to prison and it'd be the black dudes. We're the big native dudes. But there weren't many black dudes in Seward. There weren't many native people. I mean, maybe, I'm sure there were more than I realized, but I was really starting to put those correlations together like, ⁓ black is this, native is that, Hispanic is this, all these.

cultural generalizations that really were false. And so to get there where my battle buddies, where the guys I went from basic training to airborne school and then transferred to my first duty station in Italy and then went to Iraq were black, were Mexican, were like first generation American. It was like, wow. And there weren't women in the infantry at that time. It was just like this brotherhood.

that I needed because I did have a brother, but years before he had disowned me because he got into things and I was just that young, like goody goody, you know? So it's like, I needed this brotherhood. I needed these role models to teach me about being the man I wanted to be. And I needed structure. I really, dude, it was like the best decision I could have made. And I'm so grateful that my recruiter forced me.

into going when I did. I think there's all, not to ramble, but I think there's a couple reasons I went infantry. Not only because like, ⁓ I wanted to be infantry, but because I was that kid who didn't try on any tests. And so when the time came for me to take my ASVAB or whatever it was, I just, you know, so they're like, you can have these jobs. There weren't many. And I'm like, what's this? Infantry, they're the guys who kick down doors. They fight the fight.

Oh, whoa, I want to be tough like my brother, like my stepfather. Oh, there's airborne. Like I want to jump out of airplanes for I can jump out of helicopters. Yes, please. So I went that route for multiple reasons. Yeah. I've got to spend some time with infantry soldiers.

My MOS, so I'm a medic. That's only been my experience. for the first eight years, I was attached to an infantry battalion and infantry guys are special, man. I don't know what you all get indoctrinated with over at Fort Benning, but they are the most fearless, adventure seeking, just let's just do this and ask questions later.

people that I've ever been around.

I think at times where like, ⁓ I've, never been deployed to like a combat zone. went overseas and, to Kosovo for awhile, but that's like a NATO mission is pretty low key. but I remember anytime we would go out on our, our little, you know, convoys or patrols or whatever, these guys were just fearless. And like, I remember, you know, we do these things out in the mountains and we're in like these terrible vehicles and, they're just bombing down these hills on gravel roads, taking corners, you know, blind.

blind corners at like 60, 70 miles an hour and not a care in the world. There's something that, and I've talked to a couple of them about it that could actually verbalize it, but ⁓ death is...

not really a huge concern for the infantry soldier, I don't think. Or their relationship with it is a little bit different, very different than maybe the average person. And one of the guys said to me, and this was a national guard soldier at the time, but had a significant amount of time active duty, had seen combat. And he's like, you know, when I put on this uniform, I'm about to go do my job, I'm already dead.

is kind of the way I think of it. And he's like, it just makes it easier that way. Did you feel like you identified with that at all? Being an infantry soldier and just through the training of knowing like, this is what they're teaching me, this is what they're teaching me to do and, and you know, who I am. Did you identify that with that at all? Yeah, I think there's, there's part of me that can identify with that, no doubt. But I think in my experience,

There's also very much the opposite. I can say 100 % that most of the infantry soldiers that I was with, I saw get very scared. Myself included. I saw crying because they didn't want to die. I saw weeping over people who were injured. I don't think that the infantry, army infantry grunt

views the death of a friend as like, you know, we all die. I die. I'm not saying that's what you're saying, but I do think there's, I see it as kind of that Buddhist perspective of non-attachment to our lives and great attachment to selfless service of others, protecting your life over mine. Like I will fight to the death to save your life.

And, I know that that, I mean, that's the way it was with the guys I served with, you know, they would give their lives for me, no doubt about it. And a lot of people say that, you know, Oh, I'll do anything for you. But when it comes down to actually people fighting like for life and it's a life or death, it's a whole nother story. And so do I think that there's something in the training?

that trains us to be like that? Definitely. yeah, they know what they're doing. It's not just made up out of nowhere. They've been fine tuning this ⁓ for hundreds of years for the infantry soldier to be young and impressionable and to be able to go forth without that fear of like, what if I die and my wife and kids are at home? You don't think about it. You become a

a real warrior. You become someone who doesn't think about consequences, who doesn't think about the future. You become fully in the moment, ready to do anything to survive. And so, yeah, that bleeds into civilian life. you know, I've got, I mean, the other day, not to ramble, I had a dog die. You know, this dog, I had this dog for 13 years since he was a puppy. I've loved that dog.

He was a big St. Bernard German Shepherd, just like call the wild buck. I think his name was and just an incredible dog. And you know, as that time came, the day before we had to call the vet, I cried. You know, I cry. I'm a cry. Dude, I watch the Power Rangers now cry. Like I cry with movies, with books, not very often in real life, but

He's about to die. I'm so sad for him and for the family. I cried. Well, the vet comes. She does what needs to be done. We're crying as a family over our dog. Well, I had built like a big funeral pyre for him in the yard. And I wrap him up in my quilt. Quilts Valor gave me, you know, for being a soldier. I wrap him and I carry him out there and I put him on there and we burn him. And

some things happen, you know? It's not a solid of a table. So as he's burning and the table's burning, he falls and, you know, can see his jaw, like his guts are spilling out. And my wife and were like, let's bring the kids inside. It's time for a movie, you know? And we did, but like I later told that story to some friends over dinner and I thought the woman was gonna cry. You know, and the guy's like, my God, like uncomfortable. To me?

Like maybe it's the grunt in me, maybe it's the warrior, like war vet in me. Maybe it's the Buddhist non-attachment, which I'm not a Buddhist, but I do love the religion and the spirituality, but it has made me not value life less, but be less impacted when death happens. I think there's something that the military

tries to accomplish with like compartmentalizing, just chaos. I wasn't even infantry, but I remember they had this thing that they called Nick at night, a basic training. It's at nighttime and you're climbing over this wall and you know, the drill sergeants are up in the towers like shooting tracers over your head while you're crawling underneath the barbed wire. And that was a big deal for me because I was like, this is the craziest thing that I've ever done.

But because you feel the fear and you know, like you feel all the emotions, they want you to feel that and then they want you to do it anyway. you know, I honestly think, you know, I've worked in healthcare for a long time. I told you earlier, like I kind of got burned out on the ER because you just see people's worst days every day. And the same thing kind of happens there. There's not really a whole lot of training for it, though. It's just kind of exposure happens and then you just

kind of deal with it, but with seeing death, seeing the worst in humanity, seeing some of the most F-ed up stuff like that's out there come through your doors and now you have to deal with it. You know, as I became a parent, like having to deal with kids, that, that just, that changed a lot of things for me and what I wanted to do. You know, I knew at that point, you know, seeing dead kids and having to do CPR on babies, like.

There's no training for healthcare personnel on that. I don't know if you cover that and maybe someone could correct me that is a nurse or went to nursing school, but I don't know if there is a course on that. I know hospitals do their best to like debrief those situations, but you kind of deal with that and then you got to go into the next room and talk to the old lady that broke her hip. And then, you know, I don't know why I went down that rabbit trail, but I think with the military, they're

definitely aiming towards creating a certain product at the end. it sounds like you experienced what they wanted you to and came out of it. I do appreciate what you're saying though, as far as like your relationship with death. Cause maybe it's just like the macho thing to say is, yeah, you know, I'm dead. I'm already dead when I go out there and maybe it's kind of escaping dealing with the.

the reality of it and the other things that go with it. So I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that because I think that there's a lot of emphasis on combat veterans and all that they go through. And then people talk about fire department and then people talk about police officers, but to hear from an ER technician, I mean, I can't even imagine what that type of job would feel like day after day going to work, going to the front lines.

getting done with work and then coming home to like, here's my family. Let me cook you breakfast, darling. like seeing someone just die or die in your arms. And then now your wife's like, why didn't you clean up this mess? You're like, this doesn't matter. What really matters is, you know? How was work was a very, and man, there's people that have experienced way worse. I'm sharing just kind of the few things that stood out the most, but yeah, the how was work question can be super loaded.

And not just for like healthcare workers, like, I mean, police officers and, you know, paramedics, EMTs, like, I think there, there's a pocket of people out there, firemen, another one comes to mind, public servants, people trying to do good in this world that you see a lot of the bad. And not all of them equip you as well as the military does. And not saying that the way the military does is the best way. It's effective for what, you know, they ask us to do, but. ⁓

Yeah, I wish that kind of was out there for other professions as well. And not to keep going. know you got some things going on. But regarding the fear, because you were talking about the guys driving fast and fearlessness and blah, blah, blah. Well, I saw and experienced my first tour in Iraq. Those first days we parachuted into the north and then we started moving south. And how scared I was. How scared we all were.

And then we started getting more and more used to it. And then we got into our first firefight and then we started getting to more firefights and started getting just more and more confident that I might die, but I'm going to, I'm going to take you with me, dude. But then we'd get new guys, you know, we'd get people injured and then we have new guys come. And you didn't realize the transformation that you'd gone through until a new guy came.

And they had never been on foot patrols. And they're just so scared. And then you watch them either grow into that fearless soldier who will kick down any door and point their gun in your face because this is what I got to do. Or they back out. And I saw some back out. They couldn't work through that fear and they got scared. And so they either found themselves back at a base

in Iraq where they were like, you know, garden the PX in case there's a V bid that comes to a vehicle born ID, which the likelihood was slim to none. Or they faked an injury, you know, to get out of country completely. And so there's still those folks, man, who are afraid deeply. we always said, you joined the wrong job. Come on, man, go be a paper pusher. Yeah.

You know, why are you out here in the front lines, dude? Yeah. You were in Iraq in the beginning. Yeah. Right. So like I graduated. I graduated high school in 2006, 9 11, 2001. You're in Iraq in between that time. You're 2003, 2004. And that was like the beginning. Right. Was it pretty close to the beginning? Like as far as like a big force?

like the army moving into Iraq. Like I think of as a high schooler, remember it was all over the TV, the convoys heading to Baghdad. Was that like during that time? Yeah. My understanding was that soldiers came up from the South, Kuwait, March 23rd is when like the invasion ⁓ happened. We parachuted into the North. Like we were the Northern front on March 26th.

So the plan was for us, the paratroopers come in the north to eventually meet up and squash out the Republican Guard and all of Saddam's army. And so I was there from March 26th of 2003 until February 19th, 2004. And then I went back in 2005 through 2006.

And then I got out 22 years old. Woo. What do I do now? You were like you were. Yeah, you were just a kid, man. You're private Stark. Just like, hey, I'm in Iraq. Like, did you have any concept of like? I don't know, like the big picture or you just like following orders day by day doing the thing like yes, sergeant. I had no idea the big picture. You know, I talked to people sometimes or other interviews and these people who were older or higher positions and you know, they'll ask questions like, ⁓

What kind of tracking system did you use or what missions were, what was your overall mission? Dude, I had no idea. I just, did foot patrols. did vehicle patrols. I was all about living, surviving, and that was it. Finding bad guys, know, and that was what I did.

the brotherhood that you had going into this, you went to Italy first before you went to Iraq. But were most of the people that you went through like basic training with, you see these people in Italy or did you like meet your unit? Basically, I'm thinking of like Sole and Bram are the guys you talk about. Did you meet them?

in Italy or did you know them like at Basic? I met them in Italy. Yeah, there was a large group of us who were at Basic who then got sent to Italy because they were just building this other brigade with I imagine the plan that things were about to go down. So a lot of us went there. Okay. And but my closest friends like in my squad, in my platoon, I didn't know from Basic Training. Gotcha. Okay.

I don't know who's credited with it, the war is hell quote, but I want to know your opinion on it. When you've experienced conflict, like the way that you have, and then every election season, someone comes up there talking about

previous conflicts that we've had in the US, how we've dealt with them, the ones that are, you the impending conflict that always seems to be there. I kind of find myself in the position of being on the side of I know we are capable of doing a lot of damage to whoever our enemies are. or I'm not really eager to go and do that though.

but it seems like there's an eagerness over the years, different presidents, different people that are like, want to not only have the capability, but if you kick rocks at me, like I'm dropping bombs on you, that kind of thing.

I kind of look at our leaders like, know, we have Trump now we've had other, you know, Biden and Obama. I'm trying to think of just in my military time and I've kind of paid attention to all of their feelings towards conflict and

I would really like it if we didn't just like flippantly send people, overseas and it's, hard to find your responsibility as a country with other people's problems going on. And that I guess gets back to why I asked if you knew why you were there. Like, did you know your overall mission or you were just doing what you were told? cause sometimes I wonder, do we even need to be there? You know, and like, should we risk these lives? And then.

the pain that we're going to inflict on these other people and their lives, whatever's going on and just our responsibility with all that. I have a hard time wrestling with that because you want to do good, but at the same time, you know what you're signing up for. Do you have any opinion on that? Yeah. mean, my opinion is really an uneducated one. It's all based on experience. And I think so many of us have those contradictory beliefs within us. There's one side.

of me, can't speak for you, that wants a safe country. I want a strong country, a unified country. I don't want us to fight one another. I don't want to argue with my neighbor over this recent assassination. I don't want to worry when I go down the street and go to Walmart that somebody's gonna try to shoot my kid. I want there to be water.

and food available and gas and all these things. I want the freedoms that many don't have around the world and that some people would say we don't have here. I want a lot of those things. I want safety.

Do those things require a strong military force in order to protect our borders from outside forces that may be trying to take our land? Some would say yes, it's very much required. No doubt about it. Others would say no, we can all get along. I thank God I'm not an ambassador. I'm not a diplomat or a politician. I don't know the answer.

But as I've grown older, I'm 41 and I'm not that 17 year old, 22 year old who fought. I'm not the guy in his twenties who went anti-war completely and thought we can get along. We need to not fight. Now I'm more of that, know, fighting is going to happen. We're going to war. I hate it. It's awful. It's horrendous. It impacts people for multiple generations. But since the beginning.

Men have been fighting each other, whether it's over land, whether it's over, this is my book, property, resources. And so do I think it's going to stop? No, I don't think it's ever going to stop. Do I think we need to provoke fights that don't need to happen? No. I think that as country people, as individuals, as neighbors, and as citizens of the world, we should take

every step necessary to find some kind of middle ground that we don't have to risk lives to do so or completely destroy civilizations. But you know, I don't have the answers for that. You know, I do know that when I know that people say war is hell and I get it, but it's such a vague statement because is war hell for the soldier?

Is war hell for the country that like the Americans who are watching their boys overseas and girls is war hell for the people who live there? People could say war is hell. it war for the earth and the destruction it brings? it everyone? in my experience, I can say that war wasn't hell for me when I was there. It was a wild rush of adventure and adrenaline.

And anything that you could read in a book or watch on TV or play in a video game magnified by like a hundred thousand. Like, ⁓ my God, this is, it was maximum living. Like the wildest. It wasn't hell. There were high times and low times, but those people who were living in a war zone, that seemed like hell to me.

where you're afraid of what your local government is going to do to you. You're afraid of what these outside forces who don't speak your language are going to do to you. You're depending on who knows to provide you food and not only shelter, but to me, like refugees, that's hell. Being in the war zone, having kids, dude, I got kids that we live a great life. Yeah, there's struggles, but whoa, after seeing the way some of those kids are raised and what they have to live through.

Yeah, that, and then also not to, I'm by no means trying to digress, but if you add addiction and what I've seen in myself and in others in that, like that's hell. being like a clear headed sober soldier who's got these team of brothers in this mission, my overall mission, find WMDs and then no, no, no, squash the Republican guard. They're done. Find people.

who are involved in the Republican Guard, were trying to do that and then get all weapons and then secure this. Like I did know the mission little by little. But the overall, I think many of us didn't know like, are we trying to instill a democracy? So yeah. I like your perspective on the war is hell thing. I've always pictured it as like it's hell for you, the soldier, which I'm sure there's times where, you know, yeah,

It is difficult, but you're saying in comparison, you're this like well-oiled machine, clear thinking, have a job to do, but it's everything around you that you're like, my God, that's where the hell resides. Yeah. And you know, I can, my second tour was different. I imagine. Yeah. Go into that. My first tour was, I mean, we were, there weren't bases, you know? I mean, we went to this place and then established base and then we left there and then we lived in this

abandoned school and then we were just always moving around safe house to safe house in the cities and towns. My second tour, dude, it was like a year and a half, two years later, there were bases all over that I thought were safe. Okay, people who hadn't done like a tough tour before, they were scared because there'd be an occasional mortar attack or, God, someone just got shot at down there. Someone like me, I was like, okay, dude.

And I didn't go through a lot. There were people who went through way more than I did, you know, on that first tour. But, but yeah, so to see what some of those guys that I was with, that second tour with kids, with family, I don't necessarily think it was hell for them. They would go down. They'd, at that time, maybe it was Skype. It was like FaceTime, their family. It's like they were having a really hard time. But it wasn't like them locals who were

really living in absolute fear every day. so, yeah, do I think, not to keep rambling about it, but do I think that many politicians and country people throw violence around, like it's some kind of joke, where like, let's all get on board, civil war. Yeah, I think they do. And I think a lot of them haven't experienced what war is really like. And they're not sending their kids out there to shoot or be shot at.

Like they're at Yale. They're all cuss, you know? Yeah. war is on your doorstep, I don't think you do know. Yeah. You know, when there's some opposing force like changing your way of life and disrupting the way that you live. Yeah, I don't think you can fully understand that.

How many years did you serve total? Four. Four years.

love the part in, I think it's warflower where you're like, you're getting out processing and they're doing like a hearing test or something like that. And then you're just like, all right, cool. That's it. Like, and you're getting ready to just basically be done with the military ⁓ that day. that 22 year old versus the 17 year old, what had changed in you in that time period from when you first got in? Did you think that you were a better person?

then you started out as? No. I did not think I was a better person by any means. I knew that I was more experienced. I knew what I was physically and mentally capable of. I had done some schools and trainings that many people didn't pass, and so I was able to learn through the military of like, ⁓ I'm actually kind of academic. Like I'm a little intellectual.

And I always wrote, you know, I've always been a writer. so people around me would be like, what are you writing? I'd maybe share it with them. And so I knew that I was kind of an odd duck being that I wrote all the time. I prayed. I slept on the floor my second tour or without a mattress because I wanted to suck. I felt like, why am I here if I'm living on this

I'm an infantryman. I should be out there sucking. Instead I'm in this like kush spot. And so I was divorced. I got married to my first girlfriend and then divorced her like it was nothing. I had no idea that the first tour had done things to me that then I didn't know how to process. And I took them out on this innocent, beautiful human and then blamed her for all of it. So when I got out at 22, I was like,

Okay, I'm capable of killing. know what death looks like. I am kind of smart. I've got a bunch of money in the bank for a poor kid like me. It was like 60,000 bucks and I'm divorced. I can't hold relationships and I've got no plan. Holy shit. What am I going to do? And I got no brothers to like help me and guide me. No real role model to call me.

Where should I go? It was just like, drive west, drive west. So there was no, you remember any, ⁓ gosh man, I don't know what they call it now, but when you get out of the service, like right before you ETS, they have like all these boxes you gotta check, not just medically, but like they wanna make sure that you have some plan and like, do you remember any of that? Did they have that or were you just like?

Cause I mean, honestly, man, the way it goes in the military, some of the training that we have to do and the stuff you're just like, I'm just trying to check this box so I can get out. Did they have that at all? Yeah. The one I remember the most is when we got back is within the first few days of like in processing back into we're here in America, our guns are away. Let's be civilized people now. And they're being one of the boxes of like, did you experience anything that you re you need?

further counseling or additional services for. And me and some of the guys I was with were like, dang, what if we check this box? And we ended up talking to one of the leadership and they're like, well, you're about to get out. If you check that box, it's gonna be at least a couple of weeks of like counseling services. And then they're probably gonna have to have you stay in longer to counsel more. And by the time I was getting out, like I got stop lost.

So I was supposed to get out at four years. I got held in longer because I got sent to Iraq again. Like against, like you didn't want to, they were like, you're staying. Yeah, you're staying. And so when the time came for me to out process, not only was I just so ready to get out, I was, ⁓ man, I was quickly getting those habits back that I had before going to military, you know, not knowing how to deal with emotions. So I got back and just like drinking.

Drinking, drinking. so, yeah, there were, I remember I had to build a resume, you know, but I've always been good at doing just enough. And, know, I did just enough. I checked some boxes. Okay. I looked at some schools. All right, cool. But in the back of my mind and the people I served with, everybody knew that Bob was going to get out and he was going to just go. And my plan was just to travel. I just wanted to go to Latin America.

I wanted to go to Asia. I wanted to travel the world like I wanted to when I joined the army without a gun, without an agenda. And I just want to meet people. I love people. So. I'm going to read this section out of your book. Oh God, can I leave the room? No, are you kidding me? This is the best part. This is a. I love doing this. You did. You're a great author, man. You're a great author.

7.45 a.m. Zero calls, zero texts. I skipped brushing my teeth to smoke instead and without thinking, I called Elliot. This was, Elliot was your girlfriend? Not the one I married. Not the one you but the girlfriend at the time. ringing was magnified as I waited for her voice on the other end. There was no answer. I hung up the phone and turned it off to be alone by choice. Focused on the good, focused on the good, I told myself. There wasn't.

A cloud in the sky, yet everything seemed foggy. Hell, I was free to rush from state to state without anybody bothering me or slowing me down. I tried to make eye contact with other drivers as they flew past, but they were either staring ahead, talking and laughing with fellow passengers or talking and laughing on cell phones. Do you see your fellow American? asked. Traveling this open road just like you? Look at me, God damn it. Look at me. Look at me and know that I exist.

But they paid me no mind like I was just another homeless veteran without a house holding a cardboard sign. Ignored uncomfortably before being later discussed.

That was...

That was the beginning of you getting out of the military, experiencing this new world.

figuring out what the heck you were gonna do next. Tell me about that journey. Yeah, well, I'm still figuring it out. There's no denying that. I'm not one, I'm 41. That was 19 years ago. I'm not one who's got anything figured out. I'm not one who went to engineering school and traveled that career path to now I'm making 180 and I'm a head engineer for Hillcorp.

And so I'm still learning, man. And I love that. I love life. I love to be someone who's willing and able to grow and learn every day and every year. So from 22 to fast forward real quick, I came back to Alaska. I rented a little place in Anchorage where I basically tried to drink myself to death. I had friends and family convince me to leave.

and go to Hawaii for a family reunion. I went to Hawaii with my cousins and my brother. And all of a sudden that dream and desire to get out and travel the world was rekindled. I'd forgotten because I was just hiding every day in a bottle in Anchorage. And I had money, you know? So I was the guy with the big bag of pot.

And I'd buy everybody drinks and I was so depressed, man. I had no idea, you know? And I went to Hawaii and I was like eating healthy food, getting sunshine. And my family stayed three days. I stayed three weeks. From there, I bought a ticket one way to Guatemala, to Belize actually. And I spent the next like year in Guatemala, Belize, Costa Rica. Just growing, man. Doing yoga.

I lived in a yoga house for six months where I was doing yoga six days a week, getting deeper into spirituality, having moments without alcohol, know, moments as in like days instead of drinking every day. was like surrounded by healthy people. And so I've smoked pot, but that wasn't a big deal to me at the time, as long as I wasn't drinking. so.

Yeah, I was learning Spanish. You know, I got enrolled in these one-on-one five hour day Spanish courses. And so I started learning this other language, obsessing. I'm an obsessive guy, kind of ADHD. And so like, I obsessed over learning Spanish. And then I went from where I was living in that city out to the middle of nowhere, Costa Rica, where there weren't any English speakers. And so then I'm like, yes, now I get to just speak Spanish. And so while I was there,

I wrote warflower. I was just like processing all this stuff by myself in the middle of the jungle. And I just wrote longhand and you know, not drinking, still practicing yoga, obsessively doing Spanish, had my local Vietnam veteran pot dealer who'd hook me up and I'd just hold away and smoke. had a motorcycle. I'd ride all around Costa Rica.

For my adventure. I still, I'm a grunt dude. I need adventure. And, ⁓ and that was about a year. I needed that. Came back to Alaska and basically over the last 18 years, like come back to Alaska, make some money, go somewhere else. Come back, you know, went over to India, Southeast Asia. I got deeper into Buddhism, meditation, yoga, come back, have periods of sobriety. You know, when I was there, there was no pot either.

And so then was like, okay, no drink, no pot and go through those like, kind of, I don't know, delirium tremens, if you will, you know, from the addiction. Cause to me, pot was an addiction too. And then start getting out into that clear thinking and right, right, right. I mean, anytime, dude, I just write, go work on a fishing boat and write and write poetry. Started playing music.

and just writing songs, not to ramble at 25. was finally like, okay, tired of doing this, like India travel back to Alaska, South America travel or central America. I'm going to go to college. I'm going use my GI bill. I'm going to go to college for writing and for agriculture. a seed was planted in the middle East and the fertile crescent where I wanted to come home to Alaska and buy some land.

to grow food and have a family. so 25, I enrolled in Bend, Oregon, Central Oregon Community College. And probably about three months later, I was like, I'm done. I can't do this. A lot of it is like the ER tech. When you see all these things that are life or death, and then all of a sudden you're in a classroom with a bunch of 18, 19 year olds,

and professors who take themselves so seriously. And then you're being forced to learn things that you know you're not going to use. I was like, this is a waste of my time. I'm not doing this. And thankfully my Spanish teacher was like, you know, you're really smart and I know that you can go far. So you should try out one these liberal arts colleges where there's no core classes. You don't have to take math.

You don't have to take computer skills. You don't have to do any of these things. And I never knew that was a thing. So then I transferred. I went to liberal arts college, Evergreen State, Evergreen College. And yeah, I was able to take whatever classes I wanted and just accumulate the credits over time. Were there things at that college that shook me to the core? Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I'm by no means trying to be Mr.

weird here, but you know, I wasn't used to being around so many people that I thought were a man, but they were a woman. know, like the whole transgender LGBTQ thing had never been in my face. Culture shock. I couldn't believe it, dude. And you know, people just like looking to attack me for things that I would say when I wasn't trying to be malicious. Like I just don't know the verbage, like how to talk politically correct.

And so I was basically silenced and shut down in the classroom as well as other vets. And then we'd go back to like the vet center. We just like kick our boots off the oasis. Yeah. We just talk like openly with all walks of life in there, you know? But so to go back when I went to central Oregon community college and bend, I was 25 and that's when I first stopped drinking. Cause I'm an alcoholic and I didn't realize it.

And so I dabbled in not drinking, but this was like, had at 24 years old, I had the worst came out of me. You know, I was blackout Bob in high school, B.O.B. And then 24, 22 to 24, like it started coming out when I'd get back to Alaska, you know, hanging out with my buddies again. And ends up I blackout, come out of the blackout, told about what I did.

And I'm so ashamed. got to stop. So I moved there and I stopped and I quit drinking for like a year. And that's when I became obsessed with learning how to play music. So I just picked up a guitar, took piano classes and I started writing and playing and, smoking a lot of pot. and then as that journey went on, I went to Evergreen. I went, I worked on a farm there. I took as many creative writing classes as I could.

I worked on finishing, I'm not going to say polishing up war flower because I know there's still a lot of mistakes, unfortunately, but I found some role models that really helped guide me and I found my voice and like, damn, I am a writer. This is the real deal. And then in 2012, I, maybe 11, I moved back home to Alaska. I never lost residency, you know? And my brother was living in Seward.

And he had just had this new baby, my namesake, Robert Stark. And I was like, I got to be home. My mom was living in Seward again. She had followed her husband multiple places, Juneau, Arizona, back to Seward. He was getting transferred to different. Yeah. And so she was back in Seward. He was there. And I moved back to Seward with that dream that I'm going to buy some land. I'm going to do this thing. I was still

Dabbling and drinking, you know, I had that one year, but then I fell off again and And I didn't have any books anything like that and I get back and I started working for a local newspaper in Seward this lady who Vanta Schaefer who is now dead, but she started a newspaper and In high school she had adopted me when she found out I got kicked out of my house So I lived with her and she asked me to write for her paper. I started writing and that

started like really boosting my confidence as a writer. Having all the locals be like, I read this, ⁓ you know, and being so afraid of people reading my stuff to now being like, okay, you got to deal with criticism. So make a long story short, man. 2012, I bought land in Happy Valley. My brother and I were going to buy this land together and I wanted a family farm. He wanted a place to live and raise his kids.

found these 20 acres with an unfinished cabin off grid in happy Valley. And I put all the money I had left down on it. Got a for sale by owner, a monthly payment that I could pay with my VA disability at the time. And we were going to split it. And, that was the start of that journey, which I'm still living today. That is now 13 years later.

of working that land out there, having that dream, having the highs and lows, and now to actually be living that dream of I want to be an author and a farmer. I'm not a big author. I'm not a big farmer, but we are doing those things every day. I read Just Like a Soldier as your second book, right? So I read Just Like a Soldier first, and then I read A Warflower. I didn't know the...

Actually, think Bethany had Just Like a Soldier in the bookstore and didn't have Warflower. So I just, I picked up that one, started reading it. I get more of a sense of where you're at now from Just Like a Soldier at the end of that. I think the last part is called like our country bubble or my country bubble or something like that. those are special chapter. mean, those are special words. think they're like journal entries is kind of the way it looks like it's posed.

Because you get a picture of that and I think if you're listening like the the order to read would definitely read a war flower and then just like a soldier afterwards because you kind of get like the the to be continued, know the other side of your story But it's it's pretty cool man. I wouldn't downplay it I think what you're doing out there and life that you're living right now is special. It's unique.

it doesn't fit into like the cookie cutter. You know, probably more people in Alaska live in that kind of way than anywhere else. But the things that you're learning, the values that you're building with you, now your family stepping into fatherhood, you you got four kids. Those are all, that's where the joy comes from, you know? And now that that is the prime time to be, to be living. So.

Yeah, don't downplay that at all. um, this, I mean that I found more purpose in being a dad than probably anything else. Any other pursuit I could, I could go and, um, chase after, pales in comparison to just being a dad and, and being an example and trying to help shape these humans as best as I can, you know, to pursue their dreams and figure out who they are. And yeah, so that those are, you're, you're in exciting times is what I'm, that's what I'm saying. And I'm right there with you. You know, I got,

I got kids too, but.

One of the things I wanted to...

ask you is, and if you don't mind, I do want to read another excerpt. Anything you want to do, man. Let's do it. Because it felt like to me reading it, that it might have been a pivotal moment for you. And maybe you could just confirm that. But you meet up with Elroy and Leroy, which Leroy is a World War II vet.

And I'm just going to read the section right here. You guys are out at breakfast.

The most important thing a young man like yourself can do said Leroy, if they are lucky enough to make it home from the war alive and they aren't too shell shocked from the hell they live through is to explore and fall in love with the country they fought for. Otherwise it may seem like they fought for nothing. Leroy and I nodded. It is easy to understand why young war veteran might feel a certain level of anger towards his country, he said.

and towards God and his fellow human beings after seeing men at their worst. I was on edge of my seat. The honest to God truth is the majority of Americans and all human beings are good and simple people who are doing what they were taught while trying to find some level of happiness. We cannot hate them or judge them for doing what they were taught, even if it is wrong and harmful. We must never forget that. Yes, sir, I said. Elroy patted his father's shoulder. My pa here earned two silver stars and three purple hearts in World War II.

Wow, I said Leroy bowed his head, took a drink of coffee and examined his hands. He stormed the beaches of Normandy, said Elroy. He was one of the first men on Omaha. And what you were doing is exactly what I had to do when I returned home, said Leroy. I packed a duffel and a car and hit the road. I spent nearly three years traveling from Maine to Florida, six months going from Florida to California, two years going from California to Washington, and an entire year on the Hawaiian islands. Only God knows what kind of trouble I got into out there. We all laughed. I almost cried.

I came to believe that God blessed our country and every one of the citizens. said, old and new, black, white, red and yellow, we are united under one flag. I haven't been to Alaska though, maybe before I die.

It seemed like when I got to that point in the book and just, I mean, you shared kind of the adventure you went on after, after getting out. It seemed to me like that was your green light. Like of this is what I need to do. Like I do need to go and, and just see all that I fought for, see all that, ⁓ you know, kind of validate what I did and look high and low and wherever it takes me.

Did that conversation mean a lot to you at that time or fuel that journey? Yeah, I think there's so much emphasis in our culture, at least the culture that I know of as the American culture to go from this to this, this to this, this to this. You know, the typical route from this preschool, public school, public school, high school, college, career. You go to the military, okay, use the military service to

become a medic and then you get into the doctor field, whatever it is. And so it definitely felt like I was making the wrong decision by not having a decision, by just going, by going with my intuition or my heart or whatever it is. And yes, meeting him and having him tell me that was 100 % the mentor role model that I needed.

Even though I had never met the guy in my life, but his son was someone I highly respected. And yeah, that was really the catalyst to push me along the way to do what I needed. you know, I'm not trying to ramble, but I think that that's really hard for the American public to understand and to support that many veterans.

like myself, who are on this journey without a destination, without a career in mind, some of them takes longer than others, that it's hard for them, for the civilian mind to, and even non-civilian, to support and understand that. You we think like, learned all these things in the military, like, why don't you put them to use out here now? And so having...

that guy do that for me and then being able to go out and do my own travels. And now to be where I am like you with, you know, I had some daddy issues, man. know, my real dad, we didn't talk about my real dad. mean, where the hell was he in the whole thing? You know, and then to be able to go and learn these things from military men and then from stepfathers and then this man who I'm meeting to give me that go ahead.

was huge. It was so big. then now for years later, every day, I'm given the opportunity to be a role model for my kids, to be an encouraging, loving husband to my wife, to put my family unit before my own needs. Like that's my fire team, dude. That's my little platoon. Like, you know, we are this family unit and

putting them before the me. I only learned that from the military. And so I'm not trying to go back and forth, but yes, what he said gave me that green light. And I went for it and I'm about to go for it again. mean, getting to see your own country. I understand I've met a lot of people in my life who are like, why do I need to go to Montana? I live in Alaska. Why do I need to go up to Fairbanks? Like I live on the Kenai. I get it, man.

We live in a beautiful place, but I'm not the type of person who sees one lake. That's the only lake I ever need to see. I love traveling and seeing new things and meeting new people. Even driving here in Nekiski. I haven't been here in six or seven years. I forgot. It's like, wow, this is so pretty. yeah. I felt that way. as far as that catalyst, like you said,

It felt that way to me reading it. I'm glad to hear that that's how it resonated. That was where it was found. It was in that conversation with him. So we haven't talked about your biological dad. We haven't really even talked about like your brother. You your brother, you left him in Seward. Was he still in prison when you left for the military or no? Yeah. So, know, you're dealing with addiction. You're dealing with,

You know, you're trying to find yourself, you know, trying to peel away from those bad habits. And simultaneously, you got this family stuff going on, right? Like with your, come across actually meeting your biological father. And I can't remember if you sought him out or if he sought you out or something, but do you want to talk about, this is kind of a broad stroke, but just you coming back to real life again,

You you left a kind of ⁓ a weird family situation in Seward to join the military and now you're on the other side of that. And then like the family stuff is still kind of, you know, going on with, you know, now you're getting introduced to, you know, this, your dad and like your brother is, is you guys are trying to figure out like what, who he was and, I don't know, just trying to quantify all of the family stuff. And it seems like you found some kind of resolve with that.

with your biological dad if you want to talk about that. Yeah. My second book, Just Like a Soldier, I sent it to my brother to read over only the first chapter because I didn't want him to really tear apart the whole book and make me feel like I need to change all this because it makes him look bad or something. And I know that's one of the major reasons why people don't write or they're afraid to put out memoirs and stories because they don't want to hurt feelings.

And so I sent him that first part and he had said to me something along the lines of, you know, brother in war flower and just like a soldier, you don't write enough about what really needs to be written about. I'm like, what? He said, fatherlessness. You don't write about it. You got to put it out there. And my first instinct is defensive. Well, I don't need to write about it because there was no father. Like, why do I need that? And then I was really ruminating on that.

And I realized he was right. So I started writing more into that with just like a soldier and the impact that being raised without my biological father in my life at all. Yes, the child support checks came. I don't know how regular I was a little kid. I never spoke to my father until I was 25 years old.

No, no. When I got out of the military and I was driving through Idaho, I stumbled upon his mother's house through a series of events, which I could tell you another time, but I'm a storyteller and it would take too long. So I ended up meeting his mother for my first time. She calls my father and I talked to him on the phone. was the first time I could ever remember.

hearing my father's voice. And he sounded just like me. He sounded just like my brother. Same voice. The same energy. But we only talked on the phone for maybe like three minutes. And then three years later when I was living in Bend, Oregon, I hadn't talked to him at all. I got like some random emails from him saying he lives nearby, he's gonna come there. And then I'm coming there tomorrow. And then

I'm parked outside of Bend, give me your address. And I'm like, whoa, okay. I mean, this is going to be my first time meeting my dad. I'm 25. And yeah, he found where I was living, came in and we were probably together for no longer than two hours. But one of the first things he did when he came in, he paced around the house real fast. He was probably my size, five, nine, five, eight, wiry.

165, 170, he took his shirt off. He started squaring up with me. You know, can you fight? Can you fight? And I'm just like, yeah, but I don't want to fight. Yeah, I don't want to fight you. And then he was like, this is what you're to look like when you're my age. You know, you got to be tough. You got to be tough. OK, man. OK. And then we went on a walk and

That was the first and last time I saw him or spoke to him until, gosh, when was that big eclipse? Maybe it was 2016, somewhere 2015. It's in the book, Just Like a Soldier. I don't remember the year, but there's a big eclipse. My brother and I were driving in lower 48 and we were nearby where he lived.

You know, my father lived in a car in the woods for years. Years and years. He dealt with some mental health struggles that I don't even know about. No clue. He had solar panels on his roof, batteries in his car. Like, he was that guy. And I know through some research that he did not remarry, but got into another serious relationship with a woman.

and took that woman's kids to be like his own, loved those kids, but he would always leave. He'd be there for weeks and then leave. He couldn't accept love, which is very sad. But we ended up being at this hotel. He met us there, my brother and I. It was the first time since we were babies that we were all together, the three of us. And he was only around us for maybe 20 minutes. He just couldn't deal.

You know, and then he left again and so.

Today, as a father, 41 years old, my dad died when he was 61, a few years back. My mother died, she was 56. Those were some of the most freeing things that ever happened to me. I only published after my parents died. Like, I was so worried about hurting everybody's feelings.

That finally they died. I was trying to make these people happy or those people. want to impress them. Maybe my dad will reach out to me one day. And finally they died. And I was like, man, I'm just going to write whatever I need to write. But the reason I say this is because today as a father, dude, I still have those feelings of like, maybe I should run. You know, maybe I should hide. I'm just like my dad. I'm just like my brother. Sorry, bro.

You know, I'm going to run from this, these kids, I'm going to run from these kids. I, poor me, you know, get into the self pity. make a mistake. I yell at a kid and then I'm like, ⁓ God, I'm a piece of crap. You know, I think so many of us, fathers and mothers have those experiences and I was raised in families where you just ran away, you know? And so I have to fight that like every day, you know, and

fight the urge to be confrontational. Cause dude, I don't need to fight with my five year old about everything. Pick this up. Like there's no need to argue. So I hope that answered your question. You know, there was addiction. I mean, I've been sober now for over 11 years from alcohol and no pot, no tobacco, like no pharmaceuticals. You know, I know that it's rare in the veteran community.

especially in the combat veteran community. I didn't realize how rare it was until very recently. yeah, there's still addiction issues in my family, And those things really just enhance the mental health struggles that my whole family has faced, myself included. I do want to talk about the addiction, pursuing sobriety. There's a beautiful part here in

just like a soldier that kind of paints a picture of where you are at, kind of like that, that low, that low, one of the low points that you're just kind of reflecting. You say, to numb the rage, I used my monthly VA disability compensation on intoxicants. I smoked weed all day every day and spent hundreds each month on pot alone. Because marijuana was illegal, I bought everything besides pot with a credit card to make sure that I had enough cash for the dealer.

I clicked the minimum amount button every month to pay the credit card bill as spending money I did not have became another habit. had to quit. Every morning I woke up thinking today I will not smoke, drink or spend money that I do not have. But by the end of the day, I had usually done all three and I felt pathetic because of it.

I thought about ending my life, but I wondered how it would impact my namesake, my mother, my friends. I was hesitant to talk to anybody about what I was going through because I did not want to bring them down. I was too angry and ashamed to make a friend and too drunk, stoned and anxious to get a job. I blamed my brother, mother and father, the recruiters who coerced me into joining the army, the movies for misleading me to the infantry and the American people who supported a useless war that caused me to wreak terror on thousands of people inside their homes.

while they were safe and sound thousands of miles away. I blamed everybody, but the person I blamed more than anybody was myself. When nighttime arrived and I was done chain smoking cigarettes on the back porch while swatting mosquitoes, I laid in bed telling myself that tomorrow would be a new and brighter day. But as tomorrow came and went, I dove deeper into debt, depression, and despair.

Brother, that's heavy. Those are heavy times, man. So many people are living in those times today, man. And like you said, it is rare that a combat veteran, many combat veterans experience exactly what I just read, like 100 % exactly what I just read. All the things that you're talking about, the addiction, the debt, the depression, not many. Take that back. It is more.

rare to find someone on the other side of that that is completely sober, that doesn't have something that is keeping them going, that's not addictive. They have found something else to keep them going besides nicotine, alcohol, whatever it is, sex, money, drugs.

What was your path to finding that, I mean, know it's not a secret, it's like a secret, like just from your seat, how'd you do it? Yeah, you know, for years, I would have given you an answer that was one word, whether it be luck, whether it be work, whether it be God, whatever.

But just recently, I'm by no means trying be the salesman, but I had a friend die, you know, guy I was in military with. And more guys that I served with during my first tour have died after than there in the war. From suicide or drug-induced suicide, whatever it may be. But the last one really hit me, man. You know, it's just so sad that there's so many guys and girls that are struggling like that.

And then I went down and I visited a guy in Montana. And then I see my counselor and all these things started coming together. And I decided I was going to write another book. I was working on a fiction trilogy, which writing was another one word answer to this question. And that thing just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And then finally, I felt the need to write another nonfiction book.

And on one page, I wrote down two lists, each one one word from purpose to religion to community to counseling to sobriety to diet to sleep. I can't name all these words, but there's at least 58 words that then I'm writing one page on each one. No more than that.

keep it concise. And it's a self-help book. My first time writing a book with an audience in mind and that audience being the veteran community, particularly guys who are at war. Because there's not just one word to answer how I got to where I am. There's so many facets to it. And I hope that

There are other men and women who can find that it's more than just sobriety or God, whatever it is, that it does take a lot with some luck, no doubt. But also just to remember not to give up hope, man. And it's easy when you're in that state that I was in that when you're starting to spiral, when I was spiraling, instead of looking back at those

Iraqis, you know, just seeing the innocent, all the innocent people and not focusing on like, ⁓ wait, these people were trying to kill me. Like, why am I just focusing on the innocent people? You know? So to write in that place and to relive and live in that place, but also to know like, you got to reframe it, dude. I had to reframe everything.

And that's what writing and therapy and getting clear headed have helped me to do to see the importance of that list of 58, man. There's a lot of reasons why I'm here. That's huge. And I think that's, that's going to be great when that comes, when you finish that, you know, cause I think there's a lot of people that are going to find value in it. mean, there's Laska is a, is is a state chock full of veterans. Yeah. You know, why they come here, where they're looking to escape.

or just, you know, isolate whatever the reason is. You know, I feel like that landing in the hands of those vets will do a lot of good and it will be refreshing to them. really do appreciate that. And then you, it's kind of cool you saying it out loud. You're writing with an audience in mind, because all this was just, I mean, Warflower, just like a soldier, you were just, you were just writing. You weren't like,

You didn't really have an audience in mind for that, definitely not. And you know, I think Warflower, there have probably been a hundred people who have read it, just like a soldier, probably 25. I'm hoping that that nonfiction has at least 10. And if one of those people is positively changed, and I'm changed in writing it, it's all worth it, man. It really is.

I want to talk about where you're at now with your life out in Happy Valley. But I want you to tell us how you met your wife, Savannah. She's like the, just reading through this, she is the bright spot in your life, Like she's like the, I don't know, I could just, you can sense it through reading it. You meeting her and you guys getting married was a ⁓ life changer.

Yeah, I know a lot of people, myself included, spend years searching for the one. Multiple relationships, heartbreaks on all sides. And then there's others who they get married when they're 18 and then they have kids and they somehow found the one when they were really young.

When I saw Savannah for the first time, it was that that's the prettiest woman I've ever seen in my life. I need to marry that woman and spend the rest of my life with her. And then I didn't see her again for years. She was living in Homer, working at Two Sisters Bakery.

I got this crush on her. I went back there to the bakery, trying to talk to her. I wanted to date her. I wanted to know her. I wanted to marry her and have a family. And I think I was 29, maybe 30 at the time. And we had one conversation. And in that conversation, I knew that she was sober and she was a vegan. And I had been a vegan for about nine months.

and I had been a vegetarian for like eight and a half years. I'm neither today, but those things helped me build willpower. I guarantee they helped me with my sobriety. Make a long story short, I fell for this girl right off the bat. I thought I was going to marry her and then I saw her one time out on the town with another guy. I was bummed, but I knew it wasn't going to last because we were going to get married. No denying it.

And then I never saw her again. And so years went by. I returned ⁓ to college to finish my degree in Washington, came home, isolated. I was sober at the time. So was doing all this work through different recovery programs that I needed to do with counseling. And about four or five years into my sobriety, into the work I'd put off, I saw her again.

She was at Salmon Fest, sitting down on this little seat. And I was just like, I couldn't believe I was shocked. But I also thought, she looks high. Man, I bet she's not sober anymore. By that point, she had like a big tattoo on her neck. She had a couple face tattoos. And I was like, whoa, she's taking the wrong path. Just being super judgmental. And I ended up going back to Homer and...

She was at Two Sisters working again. And so I ended up going to my good friend and mentor and I asked him, hey man, this girl that I love is there, what do I do? And he said, well, you know what I used to do back when I was your age. I said, what? He said, ask him on a date.

So I asked her out. She didn't know it was a date. I asked her to to the movies. And then the next thing you know, we were, I'm not gonna say we were dating. She was very standoffish. She needed a lot of space. And I provided her a lot of space. And that, she says today, is why and how she knew that I was gonna be the right one for her. Because I was not smothering. I was not Facebook stalking. I was not texting.

I wasn't going to her work all the time. I told her I wanted to be with her and she was like, I don't want to be with anybody. And I was like, okay. Cause in my mind I knew eventually. already called it. Yeah. Man. So we dated for a few months, you know, and I asked her to marry me and she said, sure. I was like, well, that's not very promising, but okay. And we got married and

That was six years ago. just celebrated our sixth year anniversary. Congratulations. Right off the bat, you know, on our honeymoon, we took an Alaskan road trip honeymoon. got pregnant and our first one came out during COVID Primrose little girl. She's five now. Soon after got pregnant. You know, I know there's so many people that struggle with pregnancy, getting pregnant, doing IBF, all these things. I'm so thankful that we have had.

no plans, and they've all just happened. And then she got pregnant the third time with twins. And so now we're a family, I'm not gonna say she's older, but I'm 41, she's 38. Like compared to our families that were in their early 20s, we're older. She's like a geriatric pregnancy now. But yeah, we've got four kids, two are eight month old twins.

five-year-old and a three-year-old and it's chaos. Absolutely. I believe it, man. I believe it. How did Secret Garden come about?

Secret Garden Alaska. Yeah, yeah. That's our little business. Okay. That's our farm name. Okay. Our business. There's branches from it, you know, which is like she does salves or salves. Yeah. Makes jewelry. We sell food and produce the books, you know, are through like our website, Secret Garden Alaska. But I had wanted a farm and she actually had experienced farming. Okay. I didn't.

besides going to college and working on one little farm. And so when she moved out there, I had a high tunnel, or one of big greenhouses that I was growing in. And with us working together, we started building what is now today Secret Garden Alaska. And it's been slow, man. know, I mean, we started it with the main intent of we're gonna pay off our property. We were both working for a tribe as peer support specialists.

trying to get people off of drugs and alcohol. She's also sober. And we put all of our money into paying off our house and getting debt free. And then we quit our jobs right around COVID time. Let's not forget COVID everybody. And we started just diving into working this land, cultivating our land, put in a fence, planted more fruit, kept growing family.

And today secret garden Alaska is really the, we cultivate about 2.75 acres is the fence. We own 40 acres out there. within that 2.75 acres, we probably grow in an acre, acre and half and secret garden Alaska is that embodiment of all of those things. The family.

the food, the art, the lifestyle, the writing. The writing, man. So what I'm hearing you saying is you're doing it. I'm doing it, man. You're doing it. Yes. Yeah. What has got you excited right now as far as being a father? man. So many things, dude. You know, my babies, I've got one boy, three girls.

My babies are now instead of just army crawling, like low crawl, keep saying my little boy is going to be a sniper because he could, he perfected that low crawl face the ground. but now they're sitting, you know, standing up on things, looking at me full on, not just wanting mom for food, but also wanting dad. and so watching them grow, watching their older sister who

is very much like me and her mom, very dominant and aggressive. You know, I'm aggressive guy, dude. I try not to be, but she is turning more into that nurturing five-year-old side of like wanting to feed the babies and protect the babies and not just beat up on her three-year-old sister, but because those babies are now growing and she's getting more responsibilities with them.

She's more nurturing to her three-year-old sister. She's more loving. My three-year-old now, I mean, she's got two different colored eyes, Marlena. And she's so different. The differences in these children. My five-year-old, dude, she wants to come with me everywhere I go. I mean, she always, I heard you in your podcast, she always wants to be right there with me, snuggles. She never sleeps alone. I I always sleep with her or her mom.

Three year old and she could care less. She don't need a hug before you leave. Like, you know, she doesn't talk a lot. You know, we, I brought her with me to Saldana. It's an hour, 15 minute ride. She didn't sleep. She didn't talk. She just looking around her sister. I have to say, please quiet down for a minute. So that's, I'm so excited to see them all grow in their own ways and to be.

a steady, stable father and family for them. Because I know how hard it is when you don't have that. Yeah. You know firsthand. I do. You know firsthand. think it's cool that you're kind of giving them the, you talked about your Nome experience growing up there and just wide open spaces and adventure and you sounds like you have that. Yeah. Where you're at in Happy Valley.

Do you feel like as a father raising your kids out there and you're, you know, call it a country bubble. How do you prepare them for life outside of that bubble? Cause I think what you have going on there is special. And it's like, man, if I could rearrange my life, mean, I got 18 chickens and I'm like, you know, thinking like, this is like a gateway drug. Like we should be growing our own stuff and we should get more animals and being able and like,

the things my kids get to experience and what they're learning. And I see a lot of value in raising kids in a family the way that you're doing it. And then you have this like opposite side outside of that bubble that the world is freaking crazy. And there's all kinds of stuff that's outside of your control. What do you think your guardrails or guidelines or if you even have a thought of how am I going to raise these kids so that they're

They're going to be ready for that when they experience it. Well, if I didn't have the thought, I need to go to parenting 101 class because I think about it every day, no doubt about it. And I think we all should as parents. For me, the biggest one is teaching them and allowing them. I'm the type of teacher who is more into watching you grow and supporting you in what you're doing. And so that's how I'm as a parent. I'm not a hands off parent, but I do believe as someone who's

not only been a child who became an adult, but someone who has worked with children and in schools that we only have our children for so long before they're completely dominated by outside influences. I don't want to be a pop a pilgrim, keep you in this tiny weird bubble. It's not a weird incestual bubble we got going on. It's a very healthy bubble.

And I'm hoping that in these years, which it's not going to be very many more, they're learning our values as a family. They're learning to steward the land and the earth and to love God and to love one another. That friends are going to come and go and they're so important. But your family, they should be with you.

You should support them and love them no matter what. there's also the balance in having our little country bubble. Yeah, we grow a lot of food, resilience, hard work. They're constantly helping. Well, maybe not Marlena, the three year old. She doesn't like doing a lot of work, but the older one, they're helping, man, with chicken chores, with garlic planting, with...

harvesting chickens, with going to get the salmon, with all the things that we do, but they're also just playing, man. I mean, right now they're in this phase where I can't ask them to do anything because they're just playing. They just play pretend. They play forts. They play swings. They're building strength and problem solving and emotional development and all of these things. But we're about to leave, dude. You know, we're...

We just gave, not gave, our neighbors taking care of all of our chickens and ducks. I just spent like two weeks canning all my salmon. We're canning all of our berries. We're shutting down the energy. Hopefully nobody robs me because they've heard this. We're closing the gate because we got a gate and locking it. And we're driving. We got a pop-up camper. We're driving to Missouri where...

My wife's family's from, so my kids will be able to experience Canada. My oldest one's homeschooled. so experience parts of America. Gonna visit my family in Idaho, stay with them, get to Kansas City where they have eight cousins and uncles and grandparents and aunts and all these things. And so they're gonna get a taste of that outside world, if you will. But then we're gonna go back home to our...

safe place after learning and gathering all that information. And so that's one thing I want them to learn is that one, you need some emotional development and sobriety, dude. You got to learn how to manage those things. You got to learn how to communicate. If you can't communicate with your brother or sister or father or mother, it's going to be very hard to communicate with the outside world. And that no matter what happens,

You can always come home. Home is going to be a safe place. I hope it continues to be a safe place. So those are some of the things I think that, you know, I'm trying to instill in them with the hope that if they had the high self-esteem that I didn't have, that my wife didn't have, if they're not doing things just to please mom and dad or get an A because culture wants them to, but because it makes them

proud of themselves, then no matter what they do, whether they're a medic or a helicopter pilot or nothing, there's just vagabonding that they're confident in what they're doing and they can learn. Yeah, that's cool, man. I I thought of it as you were talking about the influence that you have is only for a short period of time at home before, you know, they kind of...

the influence becomes heavier throughout the outside world, right? I think one thing that I'm going to attempt to do as a parent, and maybe you can agree or disagree, is that I feel like I always want to establish the relationship with my kids so that even when the influence is growing outside of the home, that I will always be the interpreter available as the interpreter. And I kind of experienced it a little bit this...

Last week, had that assassination with Charlie Kirk and there was people out with flags and a sign that said, you know, rest in peace, Charlie Kirk. And my son was like, who's that? And why did he die? And I was like, man, okay. Like kind of a loaded, simple question, but loaded. now I'm like, okay, now I'm in this position of like, I'm going to try to translate this, you know, this thing that happened and I'm introducing all these crazy things, you know, well, there's

this person wanted this person to die because this person, you know, believed in this or, you know, this person disagreed and I'm introducing all these new ideologies and our attempt or like realizing I was about to go into that and I really had to like stop and think and be like, you know, that's a really good, that's a really good question, son. Let's kind of break this down as man. was a challenge. And I, and I thought about it then, and it came back now as you were just talking about that is that even

when the crazy stuff outside of our control happens, man, if we have that relationship with our kids, that we can at least help them interpret life's craziness, that's still a win. Even if our influence may not be as great as it once was to still be at least in a spot in their life that they can turn to. Yeah. And I know that, I mean, the influence doesn't stop. I've seen parents who have adult kids

And they're like, okay, now they're on their own. They're adults. Like, I don't want to be like that as a parent. I want to always be there for my kids and be available. But I also know that, well, here very soon, my five-year-old is going to have a hundred friends and this iPad and all of these other influences. So being able to be that interpreter, that's such a great way to put it.

So one of the things I started asking people, and I forgot to talk about it with my last guest, but one thing I started asking people on my guest form, which is really long and drawn out, and I really appreciate you completing that for me, is who they would want to see. This whole thing is just for Alaskans talking to other Alaskans and the kind of things that are unique to us. But who's someone that you'd be like, you know what, people need to hear?

from this person because of dot dot dot. Oh, geez, man. Yeah, there's so many wonderful, brilliant Alaskans that are out here doing things. so some of the people that really stand out to me are, well, of course I'm biased, but my wife. She's kind of a badass. We talked a little bit about her journey through pregnancy and like, you know, no pain.

No painkillers, twins. Breach. Yeah, there's a whole story with her calling the twins from like, I don't know about day one, but no one believed in her. Yeah. Man, we just talked about that for a few minutes, but that's, yeah, that seems like a interesting story. Dude, she came to Alaska because of dreams she was having and she ended up signing on for a job through Craigslist out of Homer.

She gets to Homer, no money, just a backpack, meets up with the person who's going to give her this job as a nanny slash caretaker. And it's basically, she's trying to have her be a prostitute. There's a prostitute ring out of Homer. And my wife's like, first time she told me that story, I was at the edge of my seat like, please tell me you didn't do it. I'm not going to give away any of stories, but you know, just how she came here to where she is, know, women.

Not just women. Heather Forbes, a midwife working out of Homer. These midwives. my gosh, their stories. You know, the business behind being born and that whole ordeal is just, it needs to be talked about more. There's another guy or a man out of Homer. His name's Lee Post. I don't know Lee well enough. I'm friends with his father. Not close enough friends. He might be dead now.

He's like 96. But Lee is, I mean, he puts together bones and like whales. You know, he puts together skeletons. Gotcha. And he was just like a bike mechanic at home, making some money on the side, running a bookstore that he had inherited out of Homer, the Homer bookstore. And then he got an opportunity working, like volunteering at the Pratt Museum. They're like, there's a barrel with bones back there.

You know, he's in his thirties, maybe forties at the time. Like, see if you can do something with them. Well, it ends up naturally he can do things with them. So now he travels all around the world teaching people how to put together these skeletons. And people are asking him in interviews, like, so where did you get your PhD? And like, he's got no college education. know, that guy, the conversations I've had with him, I just want to like hear more and more and more.

You know, there's just so many incredible Alaskans, man. I want you to tell people how to get your book. you know, we have local listeners, but there's also people that, you know, I've got friends in Fairbanks and in the interior and there's people that, you know, have reached out to me from Anchorage. Like, so it's, the influence isn't huge, but it's definitely getting across the state as far as people that are listening. Some faithful listeners, I guess is what I'm saying.

So if you're on the peninsula, Inkwell's bookstore in Seledotna, Bethany is so great. She's got your stuff front and center, man. Along with other Alaskan authors. I love that she emphasizes Alaskan authors just front and center in the bookstore and is in contact with you. It seems like pretty easily if she needs more books or whatever. Where else can people find a war flower in Just Like a Soldier? Yeah, I'd say that if you're in Alaska, that

You should go to your local bookstore wherever you are, Fairbanks and ask them if they have it. If they don't insist on they order some copies and get it stocked in a local bookstore, have them order it for you because they can. And if you want it on demand, you can go on Amazon. You can read it, the ebook. You can go on our family's website, which is secret garden, Alaska.org. And we have.

like a weekly blog slash a monthly newsletter that subscribers pay for. It's a dollar a month. And then they get like the insider view of what's happening in the Stark family. But you can order books through there. Basically anywhere, you know, that I would say. And be ready for the next ones that are going to be coming. Yes, sir. Because I do have this fiction trilogy that I'm hoping to finish while I'm down in Missouri.

I'm going to keep working on my first, I hate to it, but self-help book. If you talk to my wife, we have bookshelves upstairs. One is mostly self-help books. And guess who reads those? I do. Yeah. The other one is all nonfiction. Actually, my wife's encroaching, or all fiction, and my wife's encroaching on my bookshelf because I don't read my books fast enough. So she's like, you're going have to make space, But that's exciting. The fiction thing.

is exciting. mean, the nonfiction book about that sounds like you're working on for other vets, it's going to be useful. That's going to be huge, man. And I hope you'll come back and we can talk about those. Dude, you keep doing this and you have this interview approach or interviewer approach and you keep reaching out to people. This is going to continue growing because you're doing great things here, man. So thank you so much for asking me to come down and buying me coffee. You got it, man. Now we're friends. We're friends.

I wanted to talk about the YouTube thing too. So you doing stuff on the YouTube channel or no? Yeah, we actually are. So I off of social media for a while. And then I realized, wow, we're getting no traffic on our website anymore. We don't have enough subscribers. So I would go on Facebook and every time we post something, boom, I share the link on there. And then all of sudden people start coming. And I've always been that guy who loves filming stuff.

I was wanting to edit things, but I never got those skills. Make a long story short, with our monthly newsletter that we put out, like one of the subscriber tiers, like if you pay $1, you'd get just the newsletter. If you pay $5, you get the newsletter and a private YouTube video. And so we started a YouTube channel to upload those private YouTube videos. But then we quickly were like, wow, this is actually kind of rad.

maybe we can share some more of what we know of our life, blah, blah on YouTube. And so we do have a channel. It's very small, know, like a couple hundred viewers. And we're just learning how to make videos. Like they're pretty amateur right now, but we've got a lot of kids. It's hard at So yeah, you go on there. It's under secret garden, Alaska as well. And then so people can follow you on social media then too. It's just Robert Stark.

which is my author name on social media, on Facebook. I don't have an Instagram, but it's cooler if you just go to our website and subscribe to our newsletter, because then we don't have to do the social media stuff. Cool. Well, that's good to know, because I'm sure, we honestly just scratched the surface of some of the stuff in these books. And there's so many things that resonated with me.

I feel like your story, the just raw humanity, man, that's what it is. That's what you write about is just like raw humanity. The highs, the lows, like the stuff nobody wants to talk about, the struggle, dealing with it poorly, dealing with it well, and then finding yourself, you know, kind of at the, point of your journey of having this whole new way to influence.

this beautiful family that you're building and these kids and what you found in Savannah and then just who she is, it sounds like. And it's beautiful. Thank you very much. And I'm glad that you wrote these. I know that writing, like you said, know, kind of held back while your parents were still alive. Super vulnerable experience, you know, just kind of putting everything out there for other people to read.

What that does for the reader is huge because I think in a world of fake, of AI, man, people want real and they want to talk about real. They want to reflect on how that affects what other people's experiences, how they can relate with that to know that they're not crazy. You sometimes I feel like we're all like humanity is just holding hands side by side in a giant circle.

But we have these dividers in between us and we're all looking at life and we feel like we're alone sometimes. And man, to see somebody just put their stuff out, their journey, their good, their bad, the ugly. And it feels like those dividers come down and you're like, man, okay, I'm not the only one that feels that way. And the fact that you're such a talented author, I think helps. There's a lot of good dialogue in here.

I read a lot of nonfiction, a lot of self-help stuff. There's not a lot of dialogue in those type of books. There's a lot of dialogue in here. And I think that adds to what I took away with it. Cause man, read, I kind of read just like a soldier, like a self-help book in a way, just because of the way that you're able to present your story and whether that was your intention or not, I don't know. But I think people also find what they're looking for, if that makes sense, through other people's experience. So.

Thank you. Wow. I'm going to replay this part of the interview a bunch just to feel good about myself. man. The life of an author and a farmer. Like I said, man, you're doing it. it's only, like I said, man, this is prime time. Being a dad is the best thing ever. you know, being a husband and the wife, the wife's feedback is really hard to deal with sometimes. You know, I, the kids, I feel like I do.

good and they appreciate my effort sometimes I'm like, man, I got to try just as hard to be a good husband every day too. That part can take a lot more effort, calculated effort in different ways. Constant juggling act, but man, anyways, I'm going to start, stop babbling. Bob, thanks so much for being here. you very much for having me.