Hidden Ways NDIS Providers Are Losing Money, with Sukhy Bansal (Ep 57)

In this episode of the NDIS Provider Growth Journey Podcast, Michael sits down with Sukhy Bansal, chartered accountant and founder of ERS Advisory, to talk about the money leaks most NDIS and allied health business owners never see coming.

From overdue invoices and unnecessary software subscriptions to poor staffing structures, inefficient systems, and expensive debt, Sukhy shares the practical changes that can dramatically improve profitability without sacrificing care.

This is not a conversation about cutting corners. It is about understanding your numbers well enough to make better decisions, protect your cash flow, and build a business that serves both your participants and your future.

If you've ever wondered why your business is busy but the bank account does not reflect it, this episode will help you find out where the money is really going and what to do about it.

Connect with Sukhy Bansal:
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sukhy-bansal/
🏢 https://www.ersadvisory.com.au/

#NDIS #NDISProviders #AlliedHealth #BusinessGrowth #CashFlow #Accounting #NDISBusiness #ProviderGrowthJourney

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Well, welcome to the podcast. Today I'm introducing you to Suki Bansel. Suki is a magician of numbers and she helps people in NDIS world, allied health world, and the real world to run their businesses profitably and to not make silly choices with money. Suki, what worries you when you see good hearted people going, oh no, I'll do some free work, oh no, I'll I'll reduce the cost, oh no, I'll pay my staff member more even though they haven't really earned it, they've just asked, and I don't know how to say no. What worries you when you see good-hearted people running numbers emotionally instead of strategically?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Look, I guess what worries me most is that you know, a lot of the time and a lot of the business owners that I have in my world and that I meet, they're just they're just great people and they love what they do. And obviously they have that emotional attachment to their business. It's their why. A lot of the time, a lot of business owners have, from what I've seen, sort of worked from the ground up. So they, you know, they've they've seen the need for something that they're they're actually um offering to participants or they've had something in the family um or friends where they've, you know, that's really driven their passion to um to start the business. So what worries me is the fact that, you know, there there's always a place to make decisions from emotion. I I do believe you need that gut feeling at times, but you know, the numbers don't lie. And I think people often put their head in the sand when it comes to when it comes to numbers and they're afraid of what it's going to tell them as opposed to, you know, being empowered by, you know, if we if we did this, if we reduced our costs here, or if we just focused on this one service line, um, you know, the the the impact to our profitability, you know, it can can change so drastically. A lot of people don't realize that there's, you know, that there are those tweaks that you can make quite early on in your business journey so that you have that transparency and you can make those decisions and you can you know afford to say say no to things and yes to things as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah, and and you can co confidently say yes and no to things when you know your numbers. Like Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I mean, I had I had one of my clients ask me for something uh today, and I'm not even gonna charge him for it. I just I want him to win and uh I'll be working with him for a long time. No hassle. I can say that confidently because I know what my profit margin is. I know what my yeah my return on hourly work is. But when you've got a larger business and with a lot more moving parts and you haven't done the maths, it's not as easy as just going to zero and going, Oh, that's my profit margin. You know, it's it's a lot more complex. So yeah, so I guess you and I like you're a numbers person. You're like, what is it that you do for people?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yeah, so I I look at the business holistically. So I think you know, that that CFO role, and CFO is a very corporate term. So I kind of, you know, I I I don't use it all the time, but essentially what I'm doing is I'm coming into the business, and usually the numbers are a symptom of something else that is potentially not working, whether it's the systems, whether it's the people structure, operations, potentially even, you know, the the BD side of the business as well. So what I do is I come into the business and really give people a sense of, okay, you know, what's the good, what's the areas of improvement, and and basically come in and say, okay, well, you know, these are the immediate things that you need to look at in your business if you want to take it to that next level or you know, a lot align it with their financial goals. So, and then, you know, I'll work with them if it's my area of expertise or if it's not, I'll um bring other people on board, like you know, yourself from a business coach perspective, marketing, you know, brokers if I feel the need that they they really need to restructure their their debt and you know, and in some cases, you know, accountants so that they really have that, you know, I work quite closely with accountants and bookkeepers because what we do, you know, we're a team. And I'm not a lot of the time people think, you know, just because I'm a chartered accountant, you know, I'll be doing their taxes and stuff. I don't specialize in that. Um, I get great people to help help my help my clients with that. And we work together so we're like a solid financial team. I'm more forward-looking and they're more sort of in the past in the compliance side. Okay, can I ask you a question? Because I love this. Yeah, yeah, sure. I don't know if I answered your questions.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

You did. Yeah, charter county doesn't do people's tax. It's like, right, in that case, you must be doing something more important. What you're actually doing is helping people find the hidden profit in their business and extract it, or solve their bleeding, you know. So a lot of people when they start, everything you're doing is built on the foundation that people deserve to make a profit. Now, a lot of people when they start say that they're an say they're an occupational therapist, they start their business and they're in their mind, they're like, I need to earn as much as I can get working as an employee. And someone like you where I would say, no, that's not true at all. You need to earn double that because there's going to be big hits to your revenue that come in that as an employee you were shielded from, as a business owner you're not. So I mean, would you say it's fair or unfair that that say any business owner must earn 1.5 times their best employee, otherwise they either change the business, fix it, or get rid of it. Would that be fair or unfair?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah, no, look, I think it's fair. I think whatever stage you are in business, it's important to to pay yourself because you are, you, you know, you deserve to be compensated for that time. And and I get it, like as a startup, um, you know, sometimes we they don't have that huge cash runway. But it's important to get in the habit of, you know, starting to um compensate yourself, or if you're sort of stepping away from the business, then you know, having the right people around you and paying them well. You know, I I think, you know, in in in order to attract good people, and I I was having a conversation with my client yesterday about this, and he does it really well, is that you know, you surround yourself, you get great people on board and you pay them what they're worth. You know, it's it's not always about cutting costs. Um, but that you know, linking your own self-worth in the business is is is really key and um tying it to some sort of a personal goal that you have. So, say for example, you know, if I've got a client that is looking to purchase a house or you know, buy an investment property, it's it's linking that profitability or what they're paying themselves with their you know their own personal goal. So the business is really the vehicle to get them their own way.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Okay, I love hearing this, it makes sense. Yeah. And and I guess it's built on the foundation of you deserve to make a profit. And if you're not making a profit, that is a problem. It's not a virtue. Okay. Yeah. Because it unless you're making a really healthy profit, your business won't grow, and then you'll keep serving 10 people instead of a thousand. Okay. So I guess what are the areas that you see businesses in NDIS world or allied health world making serious cash mistakes on? For example, there was someone, um, one of your clients that I had a look at their their work recently, and between you and me, we saved them like 20 grand of they were gonna make such a big mistake unnecessarily. Yeah, yeah. And and that was because they were gonna spend money on something that was just never gonna work. And to be honest, um, some of that it's similar to say someone else I know who they were gonna spend a similar amount of money on SEO, search engine optimization. Well, in 2026, in an NDIS business, that would be the biggest waste of money ever. You might as well just go and throw that money into the ocean. Okay. Uh it it's not 2018 anymore. That's an example of someone saving 20 grand. I remember you telling me about another client that you work with who was able to restructure their finances, their debt, and that saved them a heap of money. What what what sort of what was that so that people can learn another option to find some hidden money?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, so I mean, obviously that the the big focus for business owners is always looking at their profit and loss, if if they are looking at their uh reports, but you know, the balance sheet tells a um a really important story of your business around you know your working capital. And when I say working capital, um, for those listening, like it's it's you know, it's around you know how much free cash have they actually got in the business and what does their debt structure look like. Um and that, you know, that's really the health of the business because you can be, and this is where a lot of people, you know, got caught out during COVID. And you know, a lot of the time when I see uh NDS clients in particular with you know really high debtors, you know, they often have matching to that a big cash problem because they're not able to sustain the operating expenses of their business and the cost of sales. So um in this particular case, you know, unfortunately what had happened with this client is they'd had a a fraud incident, a cyber incident, and and she she they had to go and get um some financing in order to pay the compensation pretty quickly. And so, you know, the uh the big banks wouldn't lend the money, so uh she went to another in a finance institution, and obviously because it was a short-term loan and the urgency of it all was paying a massive interest rate. And you know, that just the just the debt repayment itself and the interest going out each month was it like enormous. And like I said, you know, I'm not a I'm not a um uh a commercial or financial broker, but I have I I know great people. And so I introduced her to somebody um and a finance broker, and he's he's consolidated like three or four of her um initial uh loans into one. And we've we've also bought in another personal loan as well. And you know, the interest rate has gone from something like 17% to seven and a half percent. And so that 20, I think 25 to 30k saving she's making per month is really, you know, it's like a game changer for her in terms of what she can do with that money now. So that's just an example. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

How much per month is she saving?

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Uh approximately 25k per month.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

That's remarkable. So it's like if anyone needed a reason to get in touch with Yusuki, there's one reason for there.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah, I mean, this was a very, this is a very sort of specific situation. But what I'm saying is that, you know, a lot of the time people are just going along with the flow. They're busy with the day-to-day, and it's just having somebody to come in and say, hey, look, have you, you know, even something as simple as have you looked at all the costs you're paying in your business? Look at all your subscriptions. You know, do you need this, this, this? You know, it's just little, little, little buckets we can I well, I I try to help clients find, and then you know, it all stacks up. Um, it all stacks up in their business.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah, that makes sense. And the I guess that's another area that you help people get their attention on is your subscriptions. So if I looked like this morning I looked at a piece of software I use when I do people's marketing, and I thought, I haven't used that software in three months, but I'm paying 65 bucks a month for it. Yeah. Whoops. So it's on my to-do list today to wipe that subscription off. Also, another way people end up with bad subscriptions is they'll end up, say, with Microsoft Office or like the Google, the G Suite equivalent, where they've got ex-staff members who they're still keeping their email address on, they're they're still paying that subscription.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

If you've got one or two, whatever. You know, but if you've got 10 staff, well, that's 10 by 20 or 30 bucks that each month. Like that that adds up. So subscriptions are those sort of things that slip in under the radar. Sometimes because the leader doesn't want to say no to people, it's like, oh, Jennifer likes that subscription. Sure, we'll keep we'll keep her canvas subscription. Yeah. It's like, great, we'll keep it for Jennifer. Wipe it for everyone else. No one else is using it.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yeah, yeah. It's it's a funny one, like with systems, because especially now, like there's so there's so many things out there, and it's just kind of zoning in on okay, what do we actually need? And you know, can this one system do you know do multiple things and yeah, not getting too caught up in the um so in in the hype just because one provider or one business has five different things, it doesn't mean you you necessarily need to invest at this point in time if it doesn't make sense for you. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

And are you ready to do some scary work? Let's get scary, okay?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, overdue.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Okay, overdues. Now tell me about how any other business outside the NDIS would treat over overdues and how relentlessly they pursue them, and then tell me about what you see in the NDIS world and tell me what's your advice as a chartered accountant.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

As in debtors, so overdues.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

People who we worked for them a week ago or a month ago or three months ago, we haven't been paid. I hear this all the time from people. Oh, I didn't want to chase them too much. Like, they haven't paid you. It's six weeks ago. What are you doing? What are your thoughts from an accounting perspective on that?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah, look, I think it's a it's a core process in the business that you need to put in from the get-go around, you know, managing your managing your receivables. So receivables and debtors, I use them interchangeably, but it's getting a solid process in place. So whether that's you, whether that's your bookkeeper, whether that's somebody else, an accounts clerk, somebody in the business that's always on top of it. So looking at your debtor balance, looking at the number of days you typically get paid is a key um KPI in your business that you should be monitoring because it'll, you know, by the time you've you've if if your debtors are stretching out to 60, 90, 120 days, you know, by that time you're you're feeling the effects in your cash flow. And, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, why am I making a profit? But I've got no money in the bank to pay, you know, this, you know, suppliers or my or myself, even. So always having, so from from an accounting lens, always being on top of, okay, what does that um debtor balance look like on a on a week-by-week basis? In terms of it, it is quite industry specific. So in terms of my clients that aren't in the NDS space, and I think I spoke to you about this guy um who owns a um uh quite a large concreting business, you know, a couple of things that we put into place because cash flow is really key in in those in trades and can can often be a problem. So what we did with him is for the bigger projects, um, he negotiated to get you know 50% of that project fee up front. And not all businesses do that, not all suppliers, contractors you work with will will do that. But if you don't ask, um, you know, you you don't sort of get. And and so what happened with him was that just gave him the ability on big jobs to sort of bank that cash and use that to pay the contractors and and the materials that he was using for the concreting work. And then it so the cash wasn't as tight. So that's an example of in another industry, um, you know, negotiating terms with your with your clients. But I'd say in the NDIS world, um, and I've got clients on both ends of the spectrum, some are really great with their cash collection, and some are, you know, on the opposite end. And the ones that are on the opposite end, they they don't have a solid process in place, Michael. So they just I I think the root cause of it is they don't have firstly the right system. Like, for example, they're not using something like shift care, like things aren't automated, invoices aren't flowing into zero, there's no reminders being sent, um, Splos and Zero aren't integrated with each other, so it's hard to get a a pulse check on what their actual um receivables are. Um, and you know uh the the owner is normally doing it all, so they don't have people around them to help them manage, you know, manage debtors. And um so a lot of the time what I found works really well is again just having a core process in place around your invoicing and also your collections and and obviously having the visibility of what that is looking like week on week. So having a scorecard, having KPIs in there that really tell you the story around um overgees.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah, this is really insightful what you're saying. Uh, because we can use this in NDI as well. We love to act like we're not in control. Oh, they they can't pay because it's like you know, they pay or we pause service. Yeah, yeah. Why are we continuing? So there's a client I I work with who one of their their participants racked up a debt of 50 grand. I'm like, if you don't collect that 50 grand, that's gonna cause you a lot of problems. And then it went to 60 and I went to 70 because no one had the hard conversation. Service, and there were all these emotional reasons why, oh, a support coordinator did this, and NDIS has promised us that we'll do that. Like, guys, you're being lied to, it's gonna cost you. I don't think they've collected that 70 grand yet. Oh gosh, but I'm grateful that they stopped at 70 because they would have kept going forever. I it and we've all done that because we fair. But we can't do that with an amount of money that's gonna break us. We need to stop relying on people's excuses and just pause service. Now, sometimes Suki people go, but if I pause service, I'll lose the client. Honestly, if you pause service because they chose to not pay you, or because their their system was so messed up, their NDIS plan was so messed up, and that they didn't, to be honest, grasp how to use it, that they if they leave, you know what? You how much better would those guys have been losing a 30 grand client than racking up this massive debt?

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Yeah, absolutely. And I um two specific areas where I've seen um collections being really poor is when they the participant is um potentially self-managed, and so you know, they're dealing with the guardian or they're dealing with somebody else outside of the NDA that um won't pay, you know. And so there's been a lot of learnings there I've seen with clients around not not to say you shouldn't take on cli uh participants like that, but just be really sure that the funding and the payment side isn't going to be issue. And the other thing I've the the other scenario I've seen this, you know, falling over is where the provider, so the the business hasn't been told that the plan has changed. So that the communication has broken down between the plan manager and the provider. And so they continue providing services month for month. And yes, very similar story to yours. I I I know one business, I don't work with them anymore, but they they just kept on providing this service without you know understanding why the invoice were being paid, and then it was really hard to collect that money in the end. Absolutely so yeah, using ShiftKare, using Proda, using you know Glose, there's so many tools out there that if you just get a good handle and then you get the right people, that invoicing process and and and follow-ups should be should be seamless, and it should be something you address very early in your business as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Right. And you talked about the self-managed people, they're in control. Like a self-managed person who hasn't paid within seven or fourteen days, yeah, that's because they're choosing not to. At least then we can't externalize blame. Uh the the Yeah, it it's it's so dangerous though. And it's like NDS businesses are getting scammed by this. Because it's it's in the participants' interest to not tell you that their plan has changed. So then suddenly there's like a there's a debt there, and then they're like, Oh, oh, we ran out of funding. It's like who racked up the debt? Yeah. Because there's such a welfare mindset in NDS world, people are like, oh, well, we can't pay. And that's just people accept that. So and it's it's not something you'll win. But what you can do is you can go, right, if someone hasn't paid for seven days, they get a phone call, they get a text message, they get an email. If they haven't paid for 14 days, we're we're where we're gonna say we're we're stopping service. If they haven't paid for 21 days, we stop service there. And we can blame the plan managers, we can blame whoever the hell we want, but we can't go broke just because we had a big heart. I don't know. What goes through your head there? Are we being unfair? Are we being harsh? Like, what's going through your head?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

No, look, I don't think it'd be unfair. I think you know, to get to that point where you stop services, you know, you've got to, I think sometimes, yeah, you've got to draw a line in the sand. And if if there's no other avenue, and um, you know, there are like obviously sending letters of demand and things like that, but uh you know, the relationship your relationship suffers after that too, because you you don't really want to work with somebody after you've done that. So I no, I I don't think it's being unfair. I think you you have to balance that duty of um as we you know said right uh at the beginning of the conversation, that sort of um that care that you have that a lot of business owners I see in NDS have for participants. Yes, you've got to have that, but you've also also got to balance that with the business acumen to say, well, I need to get paid for my services. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

You know, and the other thing is, and a lot if I get an email that's negative from today, it'll be for this. Okay. I believe that every business has got scar, like at least 50 um 50 clients or participants, needs to be deliberately losing about five of them a year. About about 10% of your current people you serve, you don't want to serve next year. And the reason for that is potentially they're bad payers, or they're abusive to your staff, or they're just not fun to deal with. But you it's your business. You're in control of who comes in and you're in control of who stays. And if someone's rude, or I'll take rude any day over someone who doesn't pay, they don't belong here. Because if you're in the club, then you're nice to people and you pay your bills on time. And I I think a lot of people have this mindset of, oh no, everyone's welcome. It's like, well, how are they welcome if they're not paying? How are they welcome if they just treated your staff like a piece of dirt? Yeah. So people can't lose uh participants if they're worried that they don't have someone to replace them with. So I guess that's where your marketing comes in. If you need to know you've got new inquiries coming in the front door every week or two. Otherwise, how are you gonna lose people? It's like you you and I, we work basically as consultants. Like I used to run a really decent-sized NDIS business. Now I'm much happier because I'm a consultant. My like I don't have the burdens people carry. You know. Yeah. But if you're gonna carry those burdens, you need to be paid well, you need to be treated well. So you want to make sure you're in control of who's in your business. Yeah. What other areas do you see people either missing out on on money that's theirs or spending money they shouldn't?

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, so I think the really great NDS businesses I see, um, obviously in a way like we are that's when I say we as in putting if I'm in my clients' shoes, they're price takers. So we're we're limited by uh the price guide. And however, you know, the really great businesses I see have got um solid, you know, uh operational efficiency. And when I say that, I mean, you know, they've got they've got a great um coming back to what we were saying before, they've got a great handle firstly on, you know, what is their what are their fixed costs and really being clear on you know if the business was to shut, you know, um, or everything, they were to lose all their clients, you know, what's the what's the minimum amount they still need to pay for rent for insurances. So that's what I mean by you know your fixed costs. So they've got a good understanding of that. And then from a variable cost perspective, you know, they're quite smart around, you know, the um the way that they structure their labor. So obviously in an NDS business, um, people is is the biggest cost and all the all the compliance that comes along with that with superannuation, peril tax, insurances. So I've seen I've seen the great businesses structure that really well in terms of that mix between casual, full-time, part-time, but even just being able to be really um have have great transparency around, like, say for a seal house, for example, you know, structuring um the shift care workers, and I'm getting a bit technical here, but uh structuring the shift care workers really well and being on top of things like overtime um and and getting those ratios uh working. So it's you know, it's it's obviously driving profit because you can have 15, 20 seal houses, but you know, if you if you haven't got that participant to staff ratio right, that the cost can blow up depending on what you're paying on rent and other things like that. So yeah, I I see a lot, uh what was your your question was what are the opportunities?

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yeah, to save money. Like you're saying, for example, with with say say you've got a seal house or or some something that's very staff intensive. Yeah. Well, a lot of times people end up paying overtime because they didn't have enough staff. So they're having to put someone on an extended shift or whatever, it's like, no, no, you didn't lose money at this point of staff, you lost money at the point of recruitment there, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah, exactly. They haven't got that mix right, and they haven't they they don't understand the the the impact of your overtime really does add up, and you know, even things like like simple things like classifying the the having the roster correct. So where I see a lot of money being lost is you know the shift care workers are putting in their times. For example, you know, um a sleepover shift is being classified incorrectly, and that's having a knock-on effect because it should have been a sleepover shift, but it's being classified by employment hero or whoever's looking at the rosters as overtime. So yeah, I've seen clients caught out by that because that overtime can be in the thousands if you've got sort of that large workforce. So um I think you can save money by having a really solid, again, a really solid process around your your timesheets, around the way you structure your um your staff for um certain services. Um and I think also just being aware of like how much time is being spent on administration tasks, Michael. So, you know, really making sure that you're being um mindful of that. If you've got, you know, if you've got quite experienced staff, and I'm I'm not saying on the ground, but even managerial staff. So if you've got an operations manager, if you've got um people uh service delivery managers, it's making sure that you know you still want to make sure your billable, your billable percentages is is quite high. So I I see a lot of icky buckets around paying premium for people, but they're not doing billable work. Suki preach it. Okay, so it's getting that shit. Absolutely. And I could go all day about that.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Good, yeah. Because this is what kills businesses, is the is that we find ourselves doing tasks that don't generate revenue. Okay. So when you think about it, Suki, you and I here doing a podcast, this doesn't generate uh either you or I revenue straight up, but in six months' time, when someone contacts you because they're like, Oh, I need Suki to help me, it does. You know what I mean? So, in a sense, this is probably the most profitable use of our time, apart from the fact that it's fun. Okay. But if you look at, say, whether like your mid-level managers or even your leaders, there's a um there's a director I work for who mid-seven figure business, right? Like pretty decent-sized business, he did a time audit in the last week or so of how he's spending his time. And about half the time he's spending is time that could be done by someone else at a very low price point. And then imagine what he can go and build if he gets his time back. Yeah, absolutely. Now he's the director, he's motivated to be doing billables. But imagine your mid-level managers, they're doing all these ticker boxes to cover their butts so they don't get critiqued. Let's be real. And then you've got your lower level staff who are doing all these ticker boxes because the mid-level managers tell them to cover their their butts. And it's like, sure, we have to be compliant, but at what point did you put the icing on the cake and then another layer of icing, another layer of inefficient icing? It's like, what are you doing with your time? And especially when there's software to do half this stuff for people, or there's virtual assistants sitting in the Philippines who would love a job. English, like they're strong in English. Like or just you don't give them the phone call job. Keep that for your person who understands NDIS and understands Australian culture. But there's there's no reason why any uh office should have have 50 not have 50% of the admin tasks done overseas. I just can't see a reason, you know. And we can claim it's privacy or whatever, but it's just a red herring. What are your thoughts on the efficiency of how people spend their time?

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Yeah, I I'm I'm in agree agreement with you around I quite like the offshore model, and I know there's different people on different sides of the coin depending on what experience they might have had personally. It can be hit and miss. I I agree with that, and I've had I've had personally in my business that happen to me as well. Um so I think from a um sorry, what was the question?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah, I think the question is are we all the time? Yeah. If you use offshore work badly, you are inviting disaster into your business. So there's a whole skill set in in how to work with people from another country. Like there's well, you got someone from a different culture, different expectations, and they don't know how to talk the NDIS talk, we're gonna have some problems. So you don't give them tasks they can't win at. You give them things that they can only succeed at, and then gradually, as they build trust with you, you add more and more tasks to their workload. And people who don't like that model, they're allowed to not like that model. But you and I are allowed to like it too.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

We're allowed to like it. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's like I really like that time audit idea. And um, you know, I think again, it's and it's not even at, I mean, obviously the founder and the director that's important for them to do, but it's that next level down. So say an operations manager, for example, um, or you know, that kind of second IC to the director, yeah, it's getting an understanding, okay, what what are they doing day to day? And you know, can we bring in some efficiencies like you know, more offshore staff? And so you know the the the businesses that I work with, a lot of them do have offshore, or we've I've helped recently one business in particular recruit um some people, um, one in the Philippines, one um in Nepal, to sort of start to, because they're growing quite rapidly, to really start to sort of form that finance function. And then I come in and sort of oversee that for them when we have finance huddles and things like that every week. So, and just that if that what that has brought into the business is so much structure and the business is now stabilized. And we can we've got a good solid foundation to start growing. You know, you can't do that when the owner's trying to do all the things, or they, you know, like like we said before, time is being spent on tasks that are non-billable or non-add value to us to it to a degree. Um, and I agree with you, like you start small, you start with, you know, I did this in my own business, the offshore stuff staff I have, it's starting off with minimal tasks, but also giving them opportunities to develop and and you know, coming back to like treating them. I treat them as you know, they're they're a member of my business, they're they're an employee of my business. And so having a development plan in place, performance um plan in place for them as well to say, hey, look, you know, these are the things we need to work on, you know, um having that sort of goal, like in six months' time, you could be managing this person. So it's you know, it it's also behaviour um not behavioral, but it's also a it's a people thing. You're dealing with people, yeah. It's a people who have a real what motivates them. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

They're not software, they're humans, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

And no, no, and the other thing they're so good at what like they've got such a great work ethic. Like I'm thinking about the girls that work with me and the guys that they've got such great work ethics of what they do, and you know, I want to give them the opportunity to like grow more, and that you know, and that's that's what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

That's fantastic. And I've also been the spot where I've worked with either my own team or with other people's teams, and as soon as you've got someone who is offshore and they are either not doing what they said they'd do or they're deceptive, it's time to let me go straight away. We don't have fair work issues when that happens. That's one of the magic things about offshore people. So if there's deception or if there's just or if there's deliberate sort of hiding of stuff, that's a red flag. Because you can't build on someone like that. And the other magic is if you've got someone from offshore, chances are they've already got the skill set for something very specific. So I mean, I'm I'm lucky, I've got the dream team, but if pretend I didn't, right? I would get one offshore person for my video editing, I'd get another offshore person for improving my website copy, as in the what I write for websites for people. I'd get another offshore person for some other specific task. And so it's not like I'm getting one multi-skilled person. I I want like five or ten people who are each good at something different. People don't understand that because that's not how you employ people in Australia. But why not? Let's go through your thoughts, Zuki.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I I think that's a great idea, having and it it also it also helps with that sort of segregation of duties. Like, you know, you you don't have one person who does all the things and that reduces your risk as well, key person risk if they were to go tomorrow or you know, uh you know, resign. And and that's that's a lesson I actually had to learn the hard way a couple of years ago with the somebody who's working with me, is that they had a lot of knowledge and then they just left. And um so yeah, having and also as an owner, um the great businesses I've seen is the owner also knows how to do all the things. So they haven't they had they don't just dig their head in the sand and you know, um yeah, they they know what's happening in the finance side of things. They they understand the invoicing process within NDIS and the complexity, the answer to how to do support schedules. They know all the things. Doesn't mean they have to do it, but they they they have a pulse check on how to do it and what are the what are the um processes and etc. So um yeah, I I think you know having having great people around you and um having great people around you in your business is the only sort of way you are gonna grow and scale. You know, it's not sustainable to do to do everything. Whether you're a contract model, contract model like us, or whether you're you know a a service, a big a bigger service-based business than NDS or trades or whatever it is, you need to have the right people around you. And as a founder, you need to be able to step out and be okay with having you know um somebody else run the show so that you can go and work on all the visionary things that you know most entrepreneurs and most founders have in their business, the ideas.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Yeah, I love what you're saying is the purpose. Yeah. Why are you doing this? It's not because you love 55-hour work weeks. Okay, it's because you're building something so you can either step out or you can sell. Okay. And yeah, exactly. And all of us want to make a massive difference. You make a massive difference by having a business that serves people wholeheartedly. You can't do that unless you've you're you've got a healthy profit margin so that you can step out and and you you can continue to do amazing things. Because businesses with no profit margin don't overserve people, they underserve people. Well, Suki, what you've proven today is that there are chartered accountants out there who can talk in very plain English and can be very helpful and can be very practical. So thank you. I appreciate that a lot. Uh I I'm certain that most people who are listening to this are going to be like, right, I have to go and build this system, or I have to do that. It can be overwhelming because it's like, oh, there's three or four things, Suki, and Michael said, but you know what, just pick one, start with one, you know. Pick one, yeah. Yeah. So I I guess if people want to get in touch with you, Suki, they could they could just contact you, we'll give you their details, or guys, just send me a message. I'll put you in touch with Suki, uh, Michael at athletickoala.com.au. Happy to help you with that with Suki. Suki, how would someone find you? What's your business name? How do they find you?

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah, yeah. So my business name is ERS Advisory. Um, and look, I'm mostly active on LinkedIn, so that's probably you know around a lot of things that we've spoken about. I'm getting better at doing that. Um, and you know, I'll be having some webinars coming up as well, some free webinars. So, yeah, I think um, yeah, just either either send me a message on LinkedIn or um, you know, contact Michael or give you my email address. Um, but yeah, I just I'd love to sort of um even if it's just for a chat or some guidance, definitely um open to helping as many people as I can.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Very helpful. And this is an accountant who actually responds to your emails within a few hours. What? I love it. Bring it on. Well, thank you so much for your time. Um you you have yourself a great day. I appreciate the time you've given us today, Siki.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Thank you. Appreciate um you having me on.