How NDIS Providers Can Build Better Relationships With Support Coordinators, with Dion Tobi (Ep 60)

In Episode 60 of the NDIS Provider Growth Journey Podcast, Michael speaks with Dion Tobi from DMT Coaching and Support Services.

Dion is an independent support coordinator in Brisbane and previously worked as an LAC for more than seven years. They talk about why support coordinators often ignore generic provider outreach, how providers can build real relationships and what makes information useful when funding decisions are being made.

They also cover why longer reports are not always better, what clear supporting evidence should explain and how good support coordinators help participants understand their options without making unrealistic promises.

DMT Coaching and Support Services:
https://www.dmtcss.com.au

Athletic Koala:
https://www.athletickoala.com.au

Listen on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/3sruYKcihnI94xnKmL7Rv0

#NDIS #SupportCoordination #NDISProviders #NDISFunding #DisabilitySupport #AthleticKoala

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to the podcast. This is Dion Toby. I'm so delighted to introduce you to him. He's a support coordinator and he's going to do two things for us today. One is he's going to show us how we meet and build real connections with support coordinators because we all need allies. The second thing is he's going to show us how to deal with some of the plan issues that some of our participants have that end up we don't get paid for. And part of his job is making sure that people get paid for doing the work that they do. So, Dion, I'd love to understand what's it like being the owner of a support coordination business? How's it feel?

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Busy. Between I think all the changes happening at the moment and trying to navigate that what that looks as an independent support coordinator in this space, but also the people that I'm working with trying to help them understand what that means for them, what that means for participants, and how we support each other through that process as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Got it. I've never heard of a support coordinator not say they're busy. I can ask a few crazy questions. Is that alright? Yeah, shoot. First of all, why do support coordinators always whinge? Well, like, why are they always so negative? They're telling us how busy they are, how underpaid they are, how this they are. You're a really normal guy. Why do they win so much?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Hard to say. I think it's being it's a bit of that meat in the sandwich situation, I think. You're getting pulled from participants, you're being pulled from providers, you're being pulled from, for most people, employees or your own livelihood in trying to turn your finances around as well. And as we all suffer from, only so many hours in the day. And it's hard to make everything fit into that lovely little eight-hour block and feel like you can actually get things done meaningfully.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

I got that. Okay. And then another hard question I'd say is why is that when quality leaders within NDS world will want to build relationships with support coordinators? It's like they hit a giant shut door. It's like they get treated the way that, say, I would relate to spammers who hit me on LinkedIn. I'm like, I don't I don't want to talk to this person, I just moved them to the other inbox. Like, why is that? Isn't that support coordinators are sick of being hassled by people who are actually not that good at their work? What why do support coordinators like shut people down so quickly on LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

I think it it varies from person to person a little bit. I know for me, it's certainly an element of what you just described there in that bit of spam. I I know my time as an LAC, we used to get similar things where companies that approach us, services would approach us, going, hey, we've just started up, we've got these great services, immediate availability, send them to us. And look through it over a bit of time and look into their work or see their report or how they're operating. And it was usually the people that were not providing the greatest of service or still finding their feet, which in this space where you're trying to get reliable and quality outcomes for people, it's hard to take the time to support people with that in a lot of the spaces and have the time to actually help educate, work with them closely so people default to what they know.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

That's truly insightful. The other thing is you're not paid to go and have that coffee with that random person who just started up. Like, what is in it for a support coordinator? What would inspire them to want to go and have a coffee with a stranger?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

I might be a bit of an anomaly here. I'm all for that because I've got a bit of a caffeine addiction, but it certainly doesn't pay my bills. But it comes down to genuine connection. If you can connect with someone and seems to be happening more and more across the industry that I'm experiencing over the last 12 months in particular, having that connection with someone that if you do have a problem or you've got a participant that needs a service or a contact or being able to pick up the phone, shoot someone an email and have a conversation, not about finances, not about mutual referrals, about this person sitting at the other end that you're trying to support, knowing that there's a good outcome that's going to be on the other side because you can say, hey, this isn't working. What's happened here? They're a little bit frustrated or distressed because of XYZ. Being able to do that makes all the difference.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Okay, that makes sense. And then a lot of people will say to me, because I work for a lot of different organizations that are all trying to get the magic attention of support coordinators, like they're the Oracle who's just going to send them work and everything's going to be fine. And I'm like, okay, so what can you do for that support coordinator? Like you begging them is not what they need. What do they need? What can you offer them? Do they need a PDF file on how to do such and such that's really hard within behavior support? Or do they need some sort of other information that helps them distinguish between this type of SIL and this type of SIL? Like, how can you be useful to someone who already thinks they know everything? How can people capture the attention of a support coordinator and then give them something super valuable, which would be the basis of a longer-term relationship, not just another spam relationship? How do they actually serve and help support coordinators?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, and it's a really good question, Michael. I think the you've hit the nail on the head there. A lot of people come into this space, and certainly not all of them when I say this, but there's a lot of independent support coordinators out there that come in feeling like they know everything, whether they're they're a participant themselves, they've got a child that's a participant, a family member, whatever it is, they come in thinking, I've got three different angles of working in this space for the last 20 years. I know it, I don't need the support of other people, I know best. And it couldn't be further from the truth in probably 99% of situations, because while we might know the industry, we know what providers do, we know what different allied health professionals do, how SILs work. It takes time to learn the participant, and how that interacts with those services is going to be completely different. Physio at the end of the day is it's around musculoskeletal support. The person that you're interacting with that is a huge variable, though. People don't always gel. You might go through four physios before you find somebody that talks the way you need them to talk and uses the right language to really connect with them and do that, and that's where having those relationships is huge because it may not be a professional problem in that space and the quality of their work. It often comes down to personal and how people connect with participants or each other. So for I think for professionals trying to work out in that space is one, having that little bit of a distinction of what does make you different. There's a thousand videos out there, there's a thousand sales houses out there. What makes yours different? Is it the people first? Is it the quality of the resources available? Is it the fact that it's a large provider and independent? Having that means that you've already got a short list of okay, this participant is looking for XYZ. Here are the six people in my repertoire that that fill that need. But it's also being responsive. As I said before, that that relationship piece is huge. It's probably the biggest thing out there. If you can have that conversation and go, look, I'm looking for this, they might not have it themselves, but they might know somebody that does. And then you're spreading that word through three, four connections down the line and finding a good fit for that participant. So that communication and that clarity and being able to do that is probably the most important thing, and just being receptive to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah, it makes sense. I've the physio who's currently helping me with my knee, honestly, I won't be using him for in the future because I just don't gel with him. I don't feel like he really gets it. He's competent, he's on time, but uh that's snapping. He's not my people, good guy, but not for me. Yeah, so I can see how that would relate to say support coordinators or civil providers or whatever. I get that. Okay. So what what do support coordinators wish heck that everyone else understood that they don't understand? And I don't know, but I'm wondering, is it around, hey, I'm not paid to have coffee with you, why the hell would I want to do that? Or is it can you stop spamming me with like your useless upcoming events that I don't even know who you are? Like what or is it something more helpful? What do support coordinators want the rest of the world to understand so that we can know how to relate to your kind a little bit better?

SPEAKER_01 7:55

There's certainly a bit of that with the emails, the events, whatever it might be, trying to track down what's useful to me right now when I'm already time poor. I think a lot of people and a lot of support coordinators would love to get to some of those events and do more networking. It's just it's time and energy. And when you're already overwhelmed by a short amount of hours and a lot of work for the participants that we're working with and the people that we're trying to support, packing on those extra things is it's a very nice luxury that most people just can't afford. I think in what people in the space would like more than anything would be more time and easier access to things, and I think a scheme that is more understanding of the people element behind it all, and not something that any of us are likely to fix anytime soon. So it's working the best we can with the resources we've got to understand that better and work smarter to try and get better outcomes with less resources at the end of the day. So I think anybody that can provide that and help people, whether it's put inefficiencies in place, help build their systems, put resources in to shorten any piece of work they can do, most support coordinators are going to be frothing at the bit for that.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, that makes sense. And you're in Brisbane, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so when I think of Brisbane, I think of support coordinators, I know that Dion, you're the guy with the reputation as the guy who can solve things other support coordinators couldn't solve when it comes to people's funding, people's plans. There's a lot of very uncreative support coordinators who just love to say no to everything else. You should have been a plan manager. But anyway, it's like you're the guy who solves stuff. Why, why, how did you get that reputation as the guy who can solve what other support coordinators can't solve? And what can we learn from you in that? There's a billion support coordinators, but not many of them get the results you get in getting yeses to things and getting plans extended and getting finding ways to use funding in creative but within the rules ways.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

I'd like to say that I can solve everything. I've absolutely hit my walls with things as well, just not being able to get the right people at the other end of the phone with the agency to actually put things together, and sometimes it is waiting and trying again. So is there's still I still see my fair share of hardship in that as well. But for me, I think it's having the experience and the internal knowledge. They're like I worked internal to the agency as an LAC for over seven years. I've worked in the systems, I helped build some of those systems and refine systems in co-op with the agency. I know how they treat the information, how they're looking at the information, and that that gives me a big leg up in knowing what do I need to present and how do I need to support this family to get their story across. It's you know it's not making sure that their information is just understood in that for the person situation, but it's making sure that the agency can't misunderstand it. And while that sounds much of a muchness, it's a very different thing. Understanding something versus not being able to misunderstand it gives you a huge difference in how that's perceived. And it's not, I think the biggest misconception out there for most support coordinators I've seen or even providers is that more information is better. It's not the case. The people looking at the other end and sitting in that chair myself, going through a plan where you've got four different reports that are all 30 pages long. The last thing you want to do is have to reread 120 pages because you've missed something or you need to recheck something. It's a 30-page report is great if it's relevant. If you can get the same amount of information out in two paragraphs, even better. It's about how it's displayed, what it's telling you, and what gaps it's not leaving. If you can get that done, that's going to make the biggest difference for you and your participants.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

That's the secret source right there, isn't it? What you said about it's not about conveying the the truth, it's about making sure that the truth is presented in a way that it can't be misconstrued or it can't be ignored, it can't be bypassed. It's so clear that you can't miss it. Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, and the big part there that people have to remember is that the people at the agency making these decisions are not disability specialists, they're not people that have been support workers or allied health, they're largely people with administrative backgrounds. They understand legislation, they might have been accountants or worked with legal matters, they know how to interpret legislation, they know how to interpret admin processes, not disability. And that needs to come across in their reports. Like I read a report yesterday from a podiatrist. It listed off six conditions that I could barely pronounce. Heard of them before, I know what they look like, but I can barely pronounce them. Someone at the agency looking at that reads it and goes, Cool, you've sent me a bit of alphabet soup, no idea what it means, what it does, and there's no explanation in that report, just that this person has XYZ, and that's it. That means nothing. You need to be able to say, this is the impact it has, this is what it does. So having that is huge, but also understanding that the person looking at it today is not the person looking at it tomorrow. So if that information is not self-contained, you're not relying on history, previous context, a different report to fill in those gaps, again, you're setting yourself up to hit hurdles and walls. Everything needs to be self-contained.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

In all of Brisbane, there's two other support coordinators who I'd recommend just like that. They're they're great. And then there's you who I'd recommend when things are tricky. I'd just recommend you like that. What would you say people should look for in a support coordinator? What's the difference between great and good? What's the difference between great and pretty good? You know this stuff inside out. You've lived on both sides of the fence when it comes to in the agency and working out in the real world. What should people be looking for?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

I think someone that takes the time to actually understand your situation. Someone that knows what it looks like for you and knows the system, not somebody that's just gonna come in and promise you the world and say, This is what we're gonna get, we're gonna be able to do this. Being able to tell you the why. Why does that need to look different? What can that support change? How do we go about getting that? Not just we're gonna get all these things, but what do we actually need to do? What information, what benefit is it gonna serve, and understanding how the agency are gonna treat that as well, because it looks very different again between requesting that support and being able to actually explain why it's needed, what benefit is gonna serve that person, how is it gonna change their life, and ultimately, how's it gonna save money for the scheme long term? While it's a scheme about people, at the end of the day, it's an insurance scheme. They treat it as such. They look at the money, they look at the people coming in and out, they look at the risk, and that's not risk to disability, that's not risk of people going without, it's the risk of their finances, which almost feels horrible to say. But it's an insurance scheme, and having that mentality of okay, they're not looking at it as a person, they're looking at it as finances and figures. Steering into that again makes a massive difference, and you want somebody that can do that and look at you as a person and translate that into the agency talk.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, you get all these people trying to be real compassionate, and you're like, here's how we'll frame it. So it's we're showing you how human-centered we are, person-centered, who knows what else centered. And all it's doing is it's like trying to negotiate with Adolf Hitler about how nice people are, he's he doesn't care, okay, and neither does the robot that's making half these choices. So I guess what you're saying there's remarkable. You're saying frame it in how the agency saves money by implementing these things now. Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah. And to build on what you're saying there as well, Michael, most of the things, if a support is needed, being able to explain why it's needed and the benefit that's going to have for someone should be easy. I see so many people wasting hours and hours and have done internally and externally over the years trying to justify support because someone's requested it or they feel it's needed. Support should not be hard to justify. If it's needed and it's warranted, it should be really easy to explain then and there on the spot why it's needed, what it does, how it benefits. And if you can't do that, you're probably looking at it the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

That that's remarkable. I hear you. So here's another question. How would we all get told so-and-so is a great support coordinator or whatever? Support coordinates are generally treated as commodities, if we're honest. They're not treated as special, they're not treated as any particular skills. They're just like someone to get the paperwork done. Now you and I know that's not how things work in the real world. Okay. If someone has had to choose between two different support coordinates and they're funding them up, they might be a provider, they might be a family. What are they listening for in the first two minutes of that conversation before they go, yes, I like this person, or no, this isn't for me?

SPEAKER_01 16:25

This is gonna sound cheesy, but it's it comes back to what I said before. It's that relationship first. It's not them pitching, this is what I can do for you, this is the difference I can make. It's them asking about you. What do you need? What does you know, how can I support? What does this look like? Not yeah, I'm great, I've got this and this. This is why you should go with me over anyone else. Because that's them making a sell, and it's not thinking about you, it's them thinking about this is what I've already got, this is how it fits you, not how this is your needs, this is what you're looking for. How can I adapt and fit to that to get outcomes for you?

SPEAKER_00 17:03

That makes sense. Okay. I have to be honest, if I was a brand new support coordinator, I'd take this podcast, I'd turn that into my script, and I'd be away. So then what questions should we be asking a support coordinator to know if they're going to be great or if they're just going to be pretty good?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I think if you you start a conversation with a support coordinator, you want to have some things in mind of whether it's a bit of a dummy client that you've got in your head or somebody that you're looking for, asking, This is what I've got, seeing how they respond. It's not necessarily that you're looking for any particular answer or any particular set of skills or experience within that. It's looking at how they respond to that. Are they jumping into tell me more about this, what has been done, what does the history look like, wanting to know more about that, or are they instantly jumping to solutions? I think if they're wanting to know more in their digging and they want to put that person first and understand their situation before jumping to where do we get them, what do we put into place? They're the ones that are going to be more mindful and more flexible to get better outcomes and not hit walls as soon as something goes wrong or it doesn't work, or leave people high and dry. They're the ones that'll work with the participant for the participants' needs or the service provider.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Wow, okay. That is so intelligent because I think, say, when I'm working with a brand new client, they'll always come to me thinking they want this, whatever it is that they think they want. And as I explore what they're actually doing well or struggling with, almost always they actually need something different to what they want. And then we can look at that. Is that what you find, or do you find no people turn up to you knowing exactly what they want, and we can give them that.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

No, it's exactly that. People often turn up thinking they know what they want, but often what they think they want is not what needs to be worked around or supported. That's usually the surface tension that's coming through because something else is amiss. And understanding their story and working with them to actually get to what is the crux of that problem, not just what's on the surface, is where you make a difference. Because that's when you can put things in place, work with them through supports, resources, information, whatever it might be, to solve that underlying issue to then support everything else moving forward. It's like construction. You put something on a shaky foundation, it's not gonna last. You'll be back at SCO 1 in three to six months. You take the time, understand it, build the foundation properly, everything else flows smoothly.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Okay, so I guess not every support coordinator I talk to, one, has the ability to the ability to articulately explain the things that you've just explained. Okay, so Dion, being real, I've met so many support coordinators, I've met three people who I'd put in your category of you can solve stuff that others can't solve, and you actually get how to talk to people without using acronyms, which is remarkable. I don't think I've heard a single acronym from you today. If someone wanted to get in touch with you, I actually reckon they should. And if they're a provider, you could help them work out how they're going to access that person's plan in a way that they're gonna get a tick for, they're gonna get yes. If they're someone who they're supporting someone but they're hitting brick walls, you would be the go-to guy. Definitely within Brisbane, the go-to guy. If someone wants to get in touch with you, how do they find you, Dion?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yeah, so they can they find me on LinkedIn at Dion Toby or DMT Coaching and Support Services as the main company page there. You can find me through my website, www.demtcss.com.au. And then we've also got the Facebook page as well. So any option there, you can go on, jump, have a look at some of the work that we've done previously, some of the information that we put up, or reach out to have a chat. No obligation, no nothing.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Remarkable. Check this out. Happy to see what we can do. Yeah, you're the only support coordinator, or one of maybe three or four that I can think of, who goes on LinkedIn, who's proactive on LinkedIn, who responds to messages and not just when it suits them on LinkedIn. So that's D-I-O-N and Toby is T-O-B-I. And if you can't find him, give me a yell and I'll put you in touch with him. Dion, I feel like you've been such a resource to me. I bit I know you've been a massive resource to others. I just want to say thank you. Thank you for talking to people straight. Thank you for being helpful. Thank you for understanding how the agency thinks instead of pretending you understand it, because you do understand it, because you've worked within the at high levels for seven or eight years. Just thank you for what you're doing. I wish we had a dozen of you, but just having one of you is great.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I look, my wife's happy with one. I really appreciate that, Michael. Thank you. Good on you.