Ep. 25: Building It Back with Pete Roberts and the Origin Story

What happens when the system collapses, and you decide to build something meaningful with your hands? 

In this episode of Jeansland, Andrew sits down with Pete Roberts, founder of Origin, the American brand making jeans, boots, and apparel entirely on U.S. soil. After the 2008 recession upended his life and wiped out his business, Pete was left with a timber-frame cabin in the woods of Maine, two young kids, and no clear way forward. So he and a group of friends and family cut down Eastern white pines from the surrounding woods and hand-built a sturdy wooden workshop—barn-sized and framed with massive 10x10 timbers—where they powered up a generator, scavenged old sewing machines, and stitched a new future—one garment at a time.

But this isn’t a story about recovery. It’s about direction. From a redesigned jiu-jitsu gi to a full-scale denim operation, Pete has spent the last 15 years reclaiming the machines, knowledge, and spirit of domestic manufacturing—while shaping a 100-year plan to build something lasting, local, and real.

If you’ve ever wondered what it means to start over on purpose, and do it all by hand, this one’s for you.

Guest: Pete Roberts, founder of Origin USA

Please follow us on: Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. 

Transcript

Andrew 0:06

After the 2008 recession, after Pete Roberts watched his business collapse, he didn't fold. He doubled down, he bet on the exact opposite business model that most companies were using. And with nothing left to lose, he remortgaged his home and built a timber frame factory in the woods of Maine, because he believed in something bigger. And that was a revival of American manufacturing built not on cheap labor overseas, but on great craftsmanship and community. This wasn't and still isn't just a business venture, it's kind of a rebellion against the greed and assumptions that hollowed out small towns like his all through the United States. In his quest to rediscover what's been lost, Pete has built a formidable brand, Origin, that manufactures apparel and footwear from dirt to shirt or jeans in their own factory in the United States. Jeans Made in America. What a novel idea. I was excited to get to meet him and hear his story, and I'm happy to present it now. I'm pretty lucky that I have a chance today to speak to Pete Roberts. Bob Anishak, a friend of mine, introduced me to Pete. I had read about Pete and I had read about his company, and I found it fascinating. And Pete, I'm really thrilled that you're here, and thank you for doing this.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Yeah, I really appreciate it. It's my pleasure, stoked to talk to you about something I absolutely am passionate about. Um denim blue jeans manufacturing, whatever else we get into. So thanks for having me.

Andrew 1:37

I'm inspired by people who are phenomenal at what they do and who love it, which fuels their excellence. And I'm also fascinated by people who create something from nothing. And you have created something from nothing, which is the reason I really wanted to talk to you and show your story. So tell us, let's go back to 2008. Can you tell us what happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Yeah, absolutely. I uh was a young uh 20-something-year-old entrepreneur, um, and I was working in media. I'm a I'm a designer by trade. You know, I went to school as an art major, sculpture uh major, and got into new media. Uh and, you know, so I'm just I'm an artist, I guess you could say. Uh so I started a design company. I dropped out of college and started my own design company. And uh I wasn't I wasn't uh I was a seasoned entrepreneur when the recession came. Uh it hit hit us hard in 2008, 2009, uh, and I lost pretty much everything. Uh I was able to keep keep my little log cabin or timber frame cabin out in the out in the woods of Maine, uh, two young kids. So but everything else, uh, we had lost everything and and had to kind of start from scratch. So um didn't really know what the way forward was, but knew that whatever I was going to do next, I'd have to build something with my hands, something meaningful. So that was kind of my mission, you know, after the after the Great Recession, uh, you know, to to try and try and build something that matters and physical and and try to do it at home. So what happened? Um during the during the recession, what happened?

Andrew 3:18

Um how did you like I I had the same issue in 2008 where I had two I had kind of like one and a half businesses. I had my textile business and I had kingpins, and kingpins I wasn't charging for, and 2008 forced me because I was losing so much money to start charging for kingpins, which ended up being a better business than my other one. So how did how did you deal with it with the 2008 um recession?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, no, that's a good question. I I mean what what happened was I wasn't a seasoned entrepreneur and I didn't know how to pivot out of the, you know, out of the pressure of the moment. Um I ended up taking out a line of credit at that time. $20,000 was like 20 million to me, right? It was it was a lot of money. And so I took out this line of credit to try and keep my team employed. Um and through a series of events, you know, it just didn't happen and I had to shut it all down. And so I ended up not only in the hole, but with no plan to move, no move forward plan. Uh and yeah, a lot, just a lot of a lot of late nights um getting very still, trying to figure out what the next steps were for life and trying to feed my family. Um, you know, and and at that point I actually had to go on welfare uh for a while too. Um state state aid uh actually for health insurance with two young kids, which which for me at the time was very, you know, a little bit a little bit embarrassing. Um, you know, I grew up and my mom was on welfare at times, you know, poor, poor kid kind of, and never never wanted that for my family. So I kind of had put my family in this situation. Um that was the thing I was running from my whole life. And um then my wife had to go get a job. She got a job as a school librarian, which was which was wonderful. And you know, have an ADHD my whole life, trying to figure out when it's a superpower and when it's kryptonite, it was mostly kryptonite back then. So it just I I I was one of those. Now you read about those entrepreneurs, you know, or those people with these these um the personality traits, ADHD, this hunter-gatherer personality trait. But as a young, as a young entrepreneur, a young kid with young, with young kids, um, I didn't I didn't know how much of uh a problem it really was and causing for my family. So um I I had to really take a deep reflection on how much I had screwed up um and then come and then come with a move forward strategy. And for me, that was something I was really passionate about, Brazilian jujitsu, and and trying to reinvent the jujitsu gi and the uniform that hadn't been reinvented for like over a hundred years. So yeah, that's kind of where where I ended up uh, you know, and uh I I never like fit in the box, you know. In school, I never fit in the box. I I uh I haven't really worked for anybody since I was like 20 years old. I worked for somebody in college. I never did from the time that I went. Never. Crazy. Yeah. And there's something to be said about that, because it's that's not for everybody, that's for sure. But I don't I don't know what else I would do if I didn't do my own thing and you know, buy into my own ideas, I guess you could say. You reinvented the jujitsu um uniform or or yeah. Yeah, and and and so I I kind of designed this thing. It wasn't it was innovative for jujitsu, but if you were like in the uh if you were in the apparel business, it wasn't that innovative. I took I took blue jeans and redesigned the pants to look like to work like blue jeans, because uh traditional jujitsu uniform, it's kind of like a I call it a trash bag style pan. It's just like two panels that come together with a drawstring and you cinch it tight, and so they're oversized and whatnot. So I was like, hey, let me let me design these pants like blue jeans. That was one idea. Um, and then I had all these kind of ways that you could make it even better. Uh, and I looked for manufacturing uh in the US and New England where I'm from, and I I couldn't find any. I traveled around looking, I couldn't find any, and I I ended up importing from Pakistan the first the first year of business. Um, you know, just like everybody else. And I and I felt a little bit like a sellout, to be honest with you. Like I I didn't like that I was doing it. I was in a situation where, you know, I had to I had to try and create some in income for for life, for living, to pay to pay my mortgage and whatnot. Um but it never felt good that I was I was sending all this stuff overseas and um and at some and at one point I just found out that my manufacturer was ripping us off. He's taking this the stuff I was designing and selling it to other brands in in Europe. Uh and I and I discovered this. Um and that was the inciting incident. I like to say that was the defining moment where I was like, okay, now none of this matters if I can't make it in America. So it was that one little bit I think I needed to really fuel my, you know, you know, with ADHDO, you can you can get into real focus mode, you know, if there's something you're chasing, uh, and that put me in real focus mode, and I've been in that mode, you know, for close to 15 years now, um trying to build things in America and and do it in a big and scalable way.

Andrew 8:53

So then you started producing those in in um in the United States, and you produced them where in in Maine? In Maine, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah. When when when I had discovered that the manufacturer was was was stealing the IP, um, I I really didn't know what to do. I was I was beside myself. I had already looked for Welcome to the Garrett business. Oh my gosh. I looked for factories, I didn't have any capital. You know, I like to say I didn't have two nickels to rub together, right? So it was I just didn't I didn't have anything. All I had was my hands in daylight. And and when I discovered that, um I I live in the woods of Maine, you know, and uh and knew how to run a chainsaw and and cut down trees, and so that's what we did. We cut down a bunch of trees in the woods of Maine, um, and some friends, a bunch of friends and family, they helped me. We sought out a bunch of eastern white pines, just big 10 by 10 timbers, and we we erected this timber frame structure. It was like a kind of like a barn, it was a factory. And and um the next step was like I need sewing machines. So I went I went and scoured some old mills in in Maine and and found a couple of old 1940s Singer sewing machines. Um and we just started we started up a generator and started sewing stuff, didn't have power to the building or anything. And that was kind of the origin of the origin story. That's the that's the romantic version, you know. Um, but I was so far over my skis, moving so fast, I didn't realize that I couldn't get the fabric I needed in America. It was only being made in Pakistan and China. And so the next step was to find a loom, which was really hard. Um and uh and we were able to discover this, like kind of the last loom that was in Maine. It was in this old Bates Mill in Lewiston. It had been sitting there for almost 30 years. And um, and some friends and I, we we pulled that that old loom out of there and dragged it back to the woods and found an old timer to show us how to bring it back to life, and we breathed back life into it and started weaving fabric. Uh, and and it wasn't it was very, very difficult, you know, like impossible. How did you do your warp? Um, so at the time we uh we found a uh woolen mill and and we would bring the warps to the woollen mill uh with our with our cotton and they they would beam it for us. Um that's how we that's how we started, but it wasn't sustainable. We were, you know, they were doing um they weren't section dressing it. They were trying to remember the name of it, they had a lot of a lot of uh mini warp set up where they were and then it'd go into a big warp beam. Um I can't remember the name of that process, but we were losing a lot of yarn and we had they had to fit it into their schedule. And yeah, we built this trailer, we welded up this big gantry, you know, with this um with a come-along on it, so we could like get the warp beam onto the trailer to hook it onto my truck, and we'd be dragging this thing all through the state of Maine, back to the woods, and then we'd just muscle it into the into the factory and you know, push it over to the loom and use a crow, you know, levers, like just old school, uh old school tools of the trade. Um eventually it wasn't sustainable, and and so I continued scouring old abandoned mills, and I I discovered um a section dresser uh machine that had been abandoned, and we we pulled that out of there and it was all rusty and and we brought that back to life and we installed that in our little factory with this little the creole we cut down, you know, to a quarter the size, and and we started making our own warps, and we still use that machine to this day to make our own warps. That's crazy. Yeah, that's a little bit. I don't know if I would do it again. I mean, when you're when you're 20 and feel like you're indestructible and uh you know I always say you spend your life the most of your life figuring out what you don't want to do. Right. That's very true. Yeah, that's very true. But I I don't feel like I work, you know. I'm I I just I have so much fun with what we're doing, even in the even in the most challenging times, it's it's really fulfilling. So And you went from that to a gene production. Yeah. The the idea for Origin was always Is it Origin or Origin USA? It's origin. The brand is origin. Um but a lot of people refer to us as origin USA because that's our domain name is originusa.com. Um and we're a USA, you know, manufactur we manufacture in the USA. And and so like it's kind of interchangeable, but like our we've trademarked, we have both trademarked, but the brand, the brand is origin, yeah. Yeah, just origin. Um so you know, this the idea was never for for the brand to just make jujitsu keys. It was the casting the long-term strategic vision back then in 2011, was um, let's build America's next big brand. Let's start with you know, this really cool um jujitsugi, the thing I'm passionate about. But even back then I used to say at some point in this brand's life, in this hundred-year plan, and that's what it is, the hundred-year plan, jujitsu will end up being one, two, three percent of our business, even though it's a hundred percent right now. Um we've got to prove it out through jujitsu, you know, that we can make garments in America again. And if if we can, then we can explore other things. Um so you know, 2012 we started building the factory. We told the world in 2013 we're making jujitsu ghiz in America. We rescued the Abed and Loom in 2014. In 2015, we really pushed into jujitsu making gis. In 2016, we prototyped our first pair of jeans and our first pair of boots, and then I tabled them until 2018, 2019. Because I knew as a as kind of a wild-eyed entrepreneur that I can't get distracted. It was a distraction, even though these are things I wanted to do. Um, you know, I didn't want to get distracted. So we became experts at making jujitsu gis, at weaving fabric, at learning all these old machines that, you know, hadn't been used in New England in 30 years, felling machines, uh all the all the hard stuff, all the hard stuff to do, right? We had to rediscover that knowledge. Um and so we were really focused on rediscovering and I'd say reclaiming that knowledge first before before really going hardcore into, okay, now we're gonna build a brand, right? Now we're gonna build a a a pure play brand and we're gonna do it in America 100% without compromise. And that I like to say like that whole supply chain, uh the nuts and bolts of it all is from U.S. soil. So we try not to not we only try not to. We don't we don't import anything. Um everything is made kind of on the ground beneath our feet. Well, except for the cork for our boots. I think the cork comes from Portugal, right? I think that's the only place cork grows. Cork is hard to hard to replace. Yes, it is, yeah. So um that's kind of the the origin of that. And and people say, why jeans and boots? Why do we start with that? And and it was not it was not just shotgunned, it was by design. We had, you know, I tell people like I remember when the Berlin Wall fell down, and I think I was 12, 12 years old, and we all remember this moment. Um you know, first time I I saw freedom unfold. I didn't really understand what was going on, but I remembered the wall and these people who were who were all dressed in jeans in denim, and and they were taking this wall down and and experiencing freedom for the first time. And I I just had this real emotional connection to jeans through this through this moment. And of course, being a poor kid in the woods of Maine with with a single mom making $27,000 a year and four four kids, um, I was only able to get one pair of jeans a year, you know, and that that pair of jeans I I coveted, right? And and I wore them as much as I could every day. And whether you get made fun of because you're wearing the same thing every day or not, it's it's you know, I appreciated them. And um, and so jeans like everyone else, uh it's it's undeniably a uniting thing for humanity. Blue jeans. It's I don't care what what part of the world you're from or what time or what side of the aisle you sit on, like blue jeans is that is that representation of individuality, uh freedom, um the idea that you can you can change your trajectory in life, and and I've always appreciated that from being a young kid. And so I always had this passion for for denim blue jeans. Uh and I knew they weren't made in America anymore. Um and so I said, if we're gonna rebuild, if we're gonna have a renaissance, and that renaissance is gonna come through New England, we have to build blue jeans and boots. Why? Well, because blue jeans and boots is the uniform of America. It's the things that that that working class used. That was their uniform to to build the country, you know, into industrialization and all the steel workers, and it was it was leather boots and blue jeans. And Maine was the hub of footwear manufacturing. So we had to reclaim Maine's identity, and then jeans, we had to reclaim the identity for America in in jeans. And and so those two those two things, I said, if we could make blue jeans and boots, we can make anything because they're two of the hardest things to make. Blue jeans are so hard to make and get consistent, and to fit so hard. And boots, footwear, footwear is a sculpture, you know. And of course, that's my background of sculpture. So you're sculpting a product, a three-dimensional product, asymmetrical product, and it's very, very hard. And um, I knew if we could prove this out, then we could make anything, and we really had we really had something, but we couldn't just prove it out. We had to make it also, you know, um efficient and profitable, you know, because we're not running a nonprofit, you know, we're we're trying to build a brand. So um, so we we really dove into into those two things, head first, arms tucked, and um, and to prove it out. And and that was more recent. That was 2018-19, we finally got into blue jeans and boots before we started developing everything else at this point. We do we do a lot.

Andrew 19:51

You've accomplished a lot. I've watched your YouTube videos and and read about you, and you're I I hear that you're up to and the number's not really important, but it's a the scale is quite big. It's it's a couple of hundred million or something like that. But that is an enormous number, and that should hopefully allow you to reinvest. Is that what you are doing in the business?

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah, and just to clarify that, you know, uh we do have we we have big revenues, but there's two divisions to the company. There's Origin, which is the apparel and footwear manufacturing, then there's another division of the company, which is a nutritional, is a nutritional brand. Um, and yeah, and it's over it's over 200 million of of revenue, right? Of value, you know, who knows what the value is. Um, I don't have any of that liquid, you know. Like if you're talking about what's this dude's net worth, it's probably a lot.

Andrew 20:42

It's not about that. It's more about the idea of yeah, what to me what's that what's fascinating is when you generate revenue, that what do you do with the revenue? And for us, we reinvested. Exactly. That's where I wanted to go to and find out.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yes, yes. Like we paid, we bought a factory out of pocket, um, our second factory, we were able to put a massive down payment down on. We bought old manufacturing plants, which we pulled machines out of. And in origins 100% privately owned. And we've never taken on private equity and I'm never going to. We're never gonna go public, we're gonna stay private. Yeah. And so, so yeah, we've reinvested a lot of um most of the more than most of the the profits back into the company to do what we're doing, to buy factories and machines, to onshore, you know, kind of the knowledge and capabilities, and and it's been um it's been an adventure for sure, but it it's a lot of revenue. Um, it's a lot of people, it's a lot of overhead. Uh it's all of that.

Andrew 21:47

So, what does it look like in your mind? Um, you talked about 100 years. So in year in year 10 to 20, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 21:54

So that's that's what I just cast the long term strategic vision for last week to my team. Um, you know, and and is that what the next 10 years looks like. The three kind of the the category that we're leaning into heavily is is I guess the term is menswear, you know, fieldware, menswear. But it's American heritage, menswear, overbuilt, durable goods, um, built the right way. We want you to buy less, not more. Um, American Heritage, also we're doing an elevated line, um, a little bit more bespoke, but it's kind of like the anchor of the brand is this through New England, through the lens of New England, where a lot of the stuff was originally made. You know, I mean, a mosque egg mills in Manchester, New Hampshire, won't have the first denim, right? Like my my great my great papoo, my great-grandfather, they were Greek immigrants, and they settled into the into the Peabody area. And, you know, my my papa worked in the Peabody tanneries, uh, and my great Yaya worked in the Lowell spinning mills as a low mill girl. So I have this very rich kind of background of manufacturing in my family. And um, and so through New England is is the DNA of origin. It's through New England we're going to be able to rebuild this. Not not saying that origin is like the like I say we're the tip of the spear. I'm not saying everything has to come through New England, but I but for me, it's like the this idea that we can do it again, this idea that there can be a renaissance, the the aspirational side of it. And there's been a lot of brands that have started, a lot of companies, manufacturers that have started watching the origin story and were inspired by that. And so I think, I think for origin, it's through New England, the aesthetic, the things we're gonna we're gonna make in the future and casual wear, American Heritage, smart casual, um, really overbuilt, uh, overbuilt goods, um the way that it the way that it used to be done, not not not for the sake of not for the sake of consumerism, but actually to do less, to buy less and bring the purpose and reason someone invests in a product um to change the perspective, that I don't just want you to get a a dopamine hit off of it. I want you to understand you're investing in something much deeper, and I want you to know that 100 cents is going back into the U.S. supply chain and it touches a lot of people from truck drivers to farmers to factory workers and everything in between. I think that's really important, and I think the consumer is going to wake up to that in the coming years. That's what I've bet on for, you know, almost 15 years now. It's what I've been betting on. Um uh before before it was politicized. That's what I've been betting on.

Andrew 24:53

And and people who try to do, let's say, use your company and what you're doing to inspire them to start their brands. Yeah. How do you feel about that? Does that does that it's great?

SPEAKER_00 25:04

You like it? Yeah, yeah, I think it's great. I think I think the more, you know, when I was growing up, I didn't really understand the whole farm to table thing. I didn't understand, you know, I didn't grow up with knowledge about food and organic food and all that stuff. And I, you know, that whole that whole movement for me was very, I think the term we used to use back in the in the 90s was like kind of granola, right? It's like very like this farm to table thing. I don't really get it. I'm just gonna go get a cheeseburger at McDonald's. Now I'm the biggest freak about what I'm consuming, you know, and what I'm putting into my body. But it took, it took decades and momentum for consumer behavior to change with food. We're recognizing the food, recognizing if it has chemicals in it or GMOs, like where it's coming from, and making sure that you're purchasing your food supply, the thing you're putting into your system is healthy. I think there's already been a big movement and that's been changing. I believe the same thing is gonna happen with the things you wear. That you're gonna, you're the consumer is gonna want knowledge on where it came from. Is this picked, is this made with slave-free cotton or forced labor? Is you know, I I think they're gonna want that. I think I think they're going to. I'm betting, I'm betting on it. My gut says yes, my but I don't know how long that's gonna take. It's gonna take another five, ten, twenty years. I don't know. But we have a hundred-year plan, so I'm in it for the long haul, you know? And we can grow as slow or as fast as we want. Um, and we can grow with that with that consumer.

Andrew 26:40

And um I have a friend, he did a TED X video on in 2011 about transparency and the human right in any consumer product to know where the components are from.

unknown 26:53

Yes.

Andrew 26:54

And he he turned me on to transparency in 2011. Yeah, that's great. It's so logical.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah, it is. It is very logical. And I mean, shit, the the the I think the actual data of it all is that me sitting me sitting here with my cell phone, now we made this shirt I'm wearing 100% in America, the pants I'm wearing 100% in America, my underwear wasn't made in America, right? But if if I was sitting here with this phone and everything I was wearing and using wasn't made in America, we're I think we're so I think I'm I'm helping keep, I want to say it's 60 to 60 to 90 people in slavery. And and that's a huge thing when you think about it, when you make that statement. Um and and so how much of that can we course correct? Like, not all of it, right? Like we're not gonna course correct all of it, but if you're conscious about it and if you care, you can you can start to course correct in your in in not just in your life, but but you know, for for your community. For me, it's community, you know, for for your country, um, for the for the middle class. Like you can start to course correct that. It's such it's such a web. It's that will I don't believe it'll ever get untangled completely. Um and I don't think I actually don't think it would be healthy for for international trade um for it to completely get untangled. We have to be tangled together as a human race, but I do think that there is right and there is wrong, and I try to identify what's wrong and you know I try to put put the ideas out there and to fix it. Um even if those ideas are a little early in the grand scheme of things, the words are out and they're evergreen and they'll be there forever. So um yeah, the big education process needs to take take shape and it's gotta be really thoughtful also. You guys ever want to have a store? Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna open up retail operations probably in 2027. Um and those will be owned locations, like origin factory, you know, factory stores, retail. We won't go into retailers. Um again, we want the consumer to have a really different experience when they go into our stores, live feeds, the factory, coming into the store, you know, all that, all that stuff. Um, all right, let's go into textiles.

Andrew 29:22

Sure. I've been in it a long time. Okay. How do you handle your fiber? Let's go through from the farm out. Um let's go one by step by step.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah, so all of our fiber is is not just US sourced, it's manufactured in the U.S. Um, you know, whether that's a whether that's a natural merino wool or cotton, you know, comes from US animals or US farms. Um, even our synthetics, you know, are all manufactured in the U.S. So fiber, fiber is where it starts. Um and the reason we haven't made some product is because we are not compromising on that. And so if we need to make something and we can't get a fiber that's right, then we look at an alternative. So, like for instance, you know, we were ring spinning our our cotton. Um, we were ring spinning our cotton, I think it was a cotton poly blend for one of our products. And our our manufacturer, they they just sent a bunch of machines down to Honduras that was that were doing this, right? And and it sucks because we have to re-engineer a bunch of our products now, and we're gonna use a vortex, you know, vortex yarn, um, which we're hoping has the same hand. And so it really causes a a ripple effect within the organization because we now have to go redevelop and retest and all that stuff. But I think you might have to have spinning. Uh pr probably. Yeah, probably. I mean, I'm I'm really open to we're pretty vertical, but we're not vertical, you know, enough. Like we're not doing our own, you know, spinning and uh we do some of our own weaving. We're not doing any of our own knitting, right? So so probably. But we we it's not in the roadmap in the next five years, you know, ten years out, possibly, possibly that happens. We've discussed it, don't get me wrong. We've discussed it. I've looked at machines, but it's not our core competency. I I think I think you've gotta I'm I'm so factory driven. I I love machinery, you know. I'm very like I love like steampunk style. I just love old machines and gears, you know, mechanical mechanics. Um, and so my team has had to pull me back into Pete, what is the customer giving you value for? The customer is giving you value for made in America. They're giving you value that it's all sourced in America, but are they giving you value if you spin the material? Probably not. If they spin the fiber, I should say.

Andrew 32:02

That's more like taking trying to take care of your product. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So really like adding value is just um it's kind of like ensuring your product's integrity. That's all it can be.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Exactly. I actually had a I have a person who just reached out to me um talking about doing a I guess you could say a j a joint venture on like a tannery. Um she owns a tannery and she's like you you make a great partner for this tannery. And so I'm you know, I I have I have opportunities like that. That's what you should look at, I'm sure.

Andrew 32:37

Because every factory um needs a customer. Yeah. So you've got the one thing that they don't have, which is um some sales. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's for sure. And then your denim, how do you handle your your indigo denim?

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah, so um so Mount Vernon, obviously, they weave denim for us. Um they're weaving um uh a few different styles for us, but again, all US cotton. And then I think I think last time I talked to Mount Vernon, we were so we're not obviously the I don't know if we're the biggest denim manufacturer in America. I know we're the biggest denim manufacturer of American denim, keeping like Mount Vernon said, Oh, Origin, you guys are keeping the most amount of denim in America. Of course, they make a lot of they make a lot of material that they send to Mexico and elsewhere. Um, but when it comes to the sheer volume of of what we're keeping in the US, I know we're the biggest customer um at this point for for that. Uh which is which is awesome. You know, I mean, I think there's a lot to be had when it comes to blue jeans and the amount of blue jeans that are sold in America compared to the amount of blue jeans sold in America that are made in America. Like it doesn't even register on the chart, you know, like made in America jeans.

Andrew 33:49

No, people are flying out of LA. All the brands that were built for LA are producing in all different places now.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Yeah, yeah. And and it it's yeah, it's it's it's crazy. So, you know, our approach is a little bit different, um, just that we're very hardcore on making sure everything is from U.S. soil, not like we're not bringing fabric in from other countries and and then cutting and sewing. We're you know, trying to really reinforce those supply chains. So Yeah.

Andrew 34:21

How do you feel about your competitors out there? Do you even think about them who are importing?

SPEAKER_00 34:26

I don't think about them. Um I've never been competitor driven. I I mean from very early on it was here's the idea I think works. And this is what we do, and we don't even Yeah, this is what we do, and it people will they'll like it or hate it. I I think I'd I like to I don't think our story is super polarizing, um but but I think polarizing positioning and stories is can sometimes be good because it gets people talking about the problem. And our our whole marketing like objective is is is market the problem, market the fix, and market the marketing. And and that's that's kind of how we go about building the brand is we're taught we here's the problem. Um, what's the fix? Well, this is the fix. Well, how the heck are we gonna do that? I don't know, let's figure it out. Okay, make sure you we capture figuring it out and capture us capturing figuring it out, right? So that's the that's kind of the and I don't I don't think and we're just small and nimble, like we're not we don't have this big corporate structure and tons of executives and everything. So we we still are very entrepreneurial in some of our in some of our ways. Uh I know that'll change over the years as we get bigger. Uh uh, but uh but right now we can we can do it that way.

Andrew 35:46

How many how many jeans do you think you can eventually sell in America?

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Oh, I think I think well over a million pairs a year. Um, you know, like that's crazy, and that's beautiful. Yeah. I I mean we we certainly set up the factory to do that. And so it's kind of like the way we thought about the factory. We have this factory we purchased in North Carolina in Ashboro, and it's a it's about 170,000 square feet, and I bought it from this old timer named Wally. They used to call him Mr. Jeans, and he used to make all the blue jeans in North Carolina for all the big brands, and it was it was on its last legs, right? He had a few people working in there making a you know a few dozen pairs of jeans, but the guy used to make 60,000 pairs of jeans a week in the heyday of manufacturing in the 70s, 80s. So um we negotiated this factory purchase, um, and then we invested millions and millions of dollars at this point, it's got to be like 10 million bucks into bringing it back to life. And the way I looked at that was all right, here's the fish tank. The fish, you know, the fish will grow now that it has space. When we were only manufacturing jeans in our little 20,000 square foot factory in Maine, you know, we could only do so much. And and um, we were using our like a like a laundry mat to do our washing, and my father-in-law owned the laundry mat. So we would throw everything in the truck and bins and drive it down to the laundromat, wash the stuff, bring it back. Well, this um this factory in in Ashborough, there was a commercial wash house. Now it was dead. There was like one machine running, um, but it was there, right? And um hooked up to the town's incredible infrastructure, and there was space there to actually think about what this could look like. And so now this factory is if it's not the best bottoms factory in America, it's got to be the best bottoms factory east of the Mississippi. Like I don't know what's out in LA. That would, that would be, you know, I haven't toured anything in LA. I know there's other factories, but when it comes to east of the Mississippi, we reinvested in this commercial wash house, this big wash house where we can now wash. I mean, I'm talking all new infrastructure, you know, TIG welded, stainless steel, like the whole infrastructure we and we can pump uh a million pairs of jeans to that a year now. So the infrastructure is there for a million pairs. Um now we just got to get the volume and velocity there from a sales perspective. But that's gonna take some time.

Andrew 38:11

So your social media work is amazing. Oh, thank you. I mean, the I'm fascinated by people that can drive business just through social media. It's crazy. How do you see that growth in fall in the number of followers that you build and how do you approach that?

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Yeah, I I don't I don't think followers followers for me isn't a good metric of the scale of a business or the potential success, but engagement of those followers is a nice metric to look at. You know, likes, clicks, follows, comments. So that is a metric that we take into consideration. Um I think the way I look at it in in our the playbook is kind of my uh hearts, minds, and hands. So like I'm not going after market share right now. Like that isn't the objective of the team. It isn't to go after market share. I say mind share, soul share. Like if you can get a share of their mind through teaching them something, right? And bringing them along on the journey. So I want I want you to gain knowledge of what we're doing first. I want I want you to think about it. Next, I I I want to connect with you on a deep, a deeper level. I want you to be part of our mission. I want you to understand, like, you know, this is why we're doing what we're doing. Um, I want to tell you the story of the of the past, you know. I want you to understand like this historical aspect and what we've lost. And I want you to really feel that in your bones. And if if we can do those two things, market share is just a matter of time. And I don't care if it's this year or next year or the year after, but origin will be in your consideration set in the next five to 10 years. And so the more hearts and minds we can capture as we build the plan out, then we'll capture the market share. But I don't want to go wide with customers. I don't want, I don't want 10 million different customers. You know, I want to go, I want to go really deep with them. Who is your customer? Um, our customer is we're we're actually doing a bunch of studies on this right now. So I have some I have some early indicators. Um he he, it's he, we name him Jack. He's definitely a family man. So he most likely is married and has kids. He is career driven. Um, so he's in a professional career. Um he he's mostly living in suburbia. He's he's not living out in the you know, in the in the in the countryside. He's in suburbia, he's traveling into the city, he's you know, traveling for business. Um he cares about what he purchases. He's thoughtful. Uh he's thoughtful about what he purchases, but he's not, he's and when he gets into something, he gets into it. So if he's gonna buy one, he's gonna buy three to five of the same thing, right? Uh so he's thoughtful about it and he's patriotic. He cares about his community and um and that kind of the foundation of that American dream, right? He still kind of believes in the the American dream is is still alive and and he wants to be part of that uh part of that philosophy that he can change his trajectory in life. I think that's a that's a key call out here. He doesn't purchase us for fashion necessarily, but he wants to look good, right? He purchases us for quality and he tells all his friends about it. Um and that's that's really important. You know, he wants his friends to know the story. It's interesting when I travel around, you know, the world, I always run into people. I'm always getting I'm always getting stopped. Um, whether it's in the airport. I mean, last time I was in Paris, I got I got stopped twice, one on a side street, random side street and one right downtown. The guy ripped out his origin hoodie, you know. So um, and never, never does any has any anyone ever said to me, I love your product. I love the I love the stuff I buy. That nobody's ever said anything, even though it's best in class, they've never said that, and that is beautiful. That's beautiful. What they say is, I love what you're doing. I love your mission. I love what you stand for. I love that you're bringing this back to America and you're doing it in in a real authentic way. Like they they love, they love being part of that journey. And so whoever's interested in course correcting, what I'd say is the predatory capitalism that gutted America's manufacturing communities and and factory and mill towns like where I grew up. Anyone that wants to try and course correct that is our customer. That's our customer, but they gotta really care about that first. And then um and the product follows the brand.

Andrew 43:02

So I think what you said is one of the most important things in business in general is to lead through the the mission. Yeah. Not through the product or whatever it is in any business. Yeah. So I I commend you on that. I think it's an amazing direction. I think that what you're doing is inspiring, and I know our listeners are gonna like to hear. You know, our listeners are genes, people from all over the world. Yeah. So our listeners can be from Pakistan to China to Los Angeles or Amsterdam. So we have a pretty wide um array of listeners, and I think they're gonna really love this um this time spent with you. I appreciate you giving us this time. Absolutely. It always my pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

It's it's great to hear we I've spent the last um six or seven years traveling around the world chasing down the history of genes. And right there, it is right there near you. And it and it all came back to New England after I went to from Scott, the tip of Scotland, down through Italy, I mean France and Germany, and I met with historians and curators. I went into the Louvre and looked at old books no one's ever seen. And um, and we're working on a documentary um about all of this. Um that's what all this equipment is behind me, is there's all this equipment, but we're working on a documentary, and I'm hoping to reveal some things about blue jeans that no one had no one's ever known. Um, which which is gonna be pretty powerful.

Andrew 44:29

Well, let us know when you do, and um we'll share the we'll share the message. Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you. Thanks, Andrew. Appreciate it. Have a great week. Thanks for having me on. All right, bye. Bye now.