Ep 63—FRESH BLOOD, Part 4: Bridging Design and Production with Hayato Nishi

FRESH BLOOD is about renewal. Every industry either regenerates itself or slowly hardens. In this Jeansland series, Andrew steps back to listen to the next generation already working inside denim’s supply chain, upstream in fibers, sourcing platforms, laundries, and raw materials.

In Part 4 of the series, Andrew sits down with Hayato Nishi, a second-generation industry professional whose path into denim and textiles didn’t start with product, but with perspective. Shaped by a global upbringing, Hayato came into fashion first as a consumer, then as a builder.

From there, the conversation traces his path through the industry. From early streetwear projects in Boston to building community-driven retail concepts. From there into Shima Seiki, working at the forefront of whole garment 3D knitting technology, and eventually into Lenzing, where he now works closely with brands on fiber strategy and material decisions.

Along the way, they get into what actually gets lost in the process. The gap between design and manufacturing. The disappearance of product knowledge as production moved offshore. And why even the most advanced technologies still depend on people who understand how things are made.

They also talk about what drives decisions today. Design first. Price second. Materials after that. A reality that complicates the conversation around sustainability, even as the industry tries to move in that direction.

There’s also a broader shift underneath it all. New tools, new systems, new ways of working. But not always used in the right way. Especially when it comes to AI, where the real opportunity may not be replacing creativity, but connecting design to production in a way the industry hasn’t solved yet.

At its core, this is a discussion about learning. About staying open. And about what it takes to build a point of view in an industry that’s constantly changing.

Thank you to our sponsor Inside Denim.

Hayato Nishi
Head of Key Accounts Business Development East Coast USA & Canada, Lenzing

TENCEL: https://tencel.com/
Lenzing Fibers: https://lenzing.com/
Nishi &: https://www.instagram.com/nishi_and/
Hayato Nishi Designs: https://www.instagram.com/hayato_nishi_designs.jpg

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Transcript

Andrew 0:00

If you value these conversations, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more than you think. There is a moment in every industry when the veterans look around the table and realize something uncomfortable. And that's that the room is getting older. Maybe you are already the oldest person at the table. Fresh Blood is a series inside Genes Land where I step aside, or at least lean back and listen, to the people under 30 who are already inside the gene supply chain. Not influencers, not commentators, not big-time fancy operators. They're the next layer, the next shift, the next pulse. The series is about catching the heartbeat of a new generation, how they think, about their genes, the industry and its future. And I want to hear from people not just in Europe, Turkey, or USA. I want to hear from those in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, China, wherever. Please do write me. In this series, we talk about sustainability from their point of view. Maybe most importantly, we ask whether genes will matter in 20 years, and if so, what the world will look like for them at that time. I'm doing this series because every industry faces the same test. It either renews itself or it calcifies. These are the voices that determine which direction we go. The series is called Fresh Blood. We hope you like it. So with me today is Hayato Nishi. Actually, Hayato-san reached out to me and asked if I was interested in interviewing him as a young person in the business. And I was delighted to meet him. And I'd met him before at different shows. We never really spoke seriously before, but we had a nice long chat. And I think his story is going to be very interesting for everybody out there. So I had to thank you very much for coming today.

Hayato 1:46

No, thank you so much for your time. I think, you know, for myself, I'm in mid-30s, so I don't know if I'm considered young blood still, but uh, you know, I still feel like I have a lot of energy and momentum that I could, you know, offer the industry.

Andrew 1:59

We'll squeeze you into the box here.

Hayato 2:01

Thank you. Thank you.

Andrew 2:02

So you have an interesting background. So let's start with your father. Um, your family is Japanese, and let's start with your father and how he got to America, because I find that fascinating.

Hayato 2:12

Yeah, I think uh for my father, he grew up in Fukuoka, Japan. He was the youngest of three, three brothers. And um, you know, overall, I think he had a little bit of j job experience in Japan, but quickly realized that there might be more opportunities um overseas. And so with his first child, which is my oldest brother, um, he actually pursued a career in Australia in engineering. And so from that, I think he felt like there were definitely a lot more opportunities overseas, and that's what considered him to pursue more um endeavors in in the US as well, when it came to, I guess, cross more international engineering opportunities that kind of involves Japan and the US.

Andrew 2:59

So you were born in the United States, right?

Hayato 3:01

Yes, I was born in Boston. In Boston? And you grew up in Boston? Or how many years did you? So grew up, it's a question mark. I grew up in a a lot of different areas. I was born in Boston, lived there for five years, then I moved to Brentwood, Tennessee, which is a little bit outside of Nashville. I lived there for another five years, and then when I was 10 years old, uh I moved to Tokyo, Japan, went to a um international Catholic school there, all-boys' school, went there until I graduated high school, and then uh for college, I went back to Boston. So Boston, I guess it would be the somewhere I have a close attachment to because I was born there and I didn't study my university days there. But in terms of the the length, I think New York is the the longest I've I've stayed in one place. How long have you been in New York? I've been here for 13 years now.

Andrew 3:56

Wow. And how was it going to school in Japan? I mean, it's I'm Hungarian and I when I go back to Hungary, it's always a weird feeling.

Hayato 4:04

Yeah.

Andrew 4:05

Because you're part of them and you're not part of them.

Hayato 4:07

Yes.

Andrew 4:08

And then you sort of feel like you're not part of anybody, and then you're part of everybody, and it's kind of a weird dynamic. How was it for you?

Hayato 4:14

I I would say it's the same way. It's the same way. Um, we have this specific word called TCK, it's third culture kids, uh, meaning that you, I guess, I guess you I don't identify to either US or Japan. Um, and being in an international school, uh a Catholic school as well, it wasn't considered uh a regular school in Japanese standards. So for you know, my sports kind of uh days, play basketball and baseball, we were not able to compete in Japanese leagues, like school leagues. Really, yeah, we would only we have a separate league. We were part of the the Far East Dodd, uh like Department of Defense. So we would play it against uh American base schools. So Kadena, Kubasaki, Yokota, Azama, all the military bases in the in Japan were the schools that we would play against, as well as other international schools.

Andrew 5:07

Yeah, that's funny. And then how did you get interested in fashion?

Hayato 5:11

To be honest with you, I was thinking about this for quite some time, but I think it also kind of has to do with my background of moving around a lot. You know, as much as I don't want to judge a book by its covered, um, a lot of times I I tend to kind of look at how people dress. And so that's how I wanted to present myself. I quickly loved to kind of really uh dress myself in in different ways and express myself through through fashion. And so I I've always been a consumer uh in my early days and naturally wanted to learn a little bit more on the production side and how brands work as well. And so that's what kind of piqued my interest towards fashion. Did living in Japan have any impact on you? Japan, yes. Even in Tennessee, like I was dressing a little bit different for compared to some of the folks in my school. But um, going to Japan definitely gave me a a little bit of a different perspective towards how people express themselves. What perspective? Um, I think it's it was unique because, for example, like Japan tends to be a lot more um conservative, I would say, when they express themselves. But when it comes to fashion, there's a whole other way of expression. You have even in the 90s and 2000s, the Harajuku girls who dress themselves in like uh doll-like clothes and whatnot. But I think the the the gap between kind of like the lack of expressing, being able to express yourself in certain cultures in Japan and versus what you can wear to express yourself nonverbally was quite impactful to me. So even though I'm not too much of a very extroverted person, I think fashion can also add to your kind of expressiveness, if that makes sense.

Andrew 7:01

Well, in Japan it's so funny because sometimes you see these people in crazy outfits.

Hayato 7:05

Yes.

Andrew 7:05

They look really, really weird, and then when you talk to them, they gotta go home and take, you know, take care of their grandmother.

Hayato 7:10

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew 7:11

They look like the last people on earth that would be doing that, but they live a very conservative life. Exactly, exactly.

Hayato 7:17

So expression is just like another way, and I think, you know, for me, your body's kind of like the canvas, and the clothes that you put on it is is your paint strokes.

Andrew 7:26

And so that's how I always say it's like Halloween every day.

Hayato 7:30

Yes, yes.

Andrew 7:30

If you want it to be. I agree, I agree. Tell me about fashion in Japan in the sense of genes. Did you get into jeans or were you not into jeans and more in the street wear? What were you saying?

Hayato 7:41

Where naturally kind of gravitated uh my interest towards fashion. I think the the first pair of like proper denims that I bought were Ivisus. Uh it had a a lot of significance in US, like the the the hip-hop scene in in the US at that time too. So as well as uh brands like Bape, you know. Uh it's not the most you know, denim lowered uh brand. But yeah, I I used to own denims from Bape, uh Ivisu, obviously Levi's, and during that time they were really focused on the engineered jeans concept. But those were my early, early kind of segues into the denim scene, or at least wearing my own pair. Did you notice anything different about Japanese jeans versus American jeans? To be honest, I was a consumer at that point in time, and I wasn't too educated enough to really know the differences. It was really more of a design aesthetic and how you present yourself. Um, I didn't have that appreciation during that time.

Andrew 8:39

And then from being a consumer, how did you get in? Let's go backwards. Where did you go to university?

Hayato 8:45

So I went to university uh uh in Boston called Northeastern. I studied business management and entrepreneurship there. Nothing really related to fashion, to be honest with you. But, you know, it was interesting because uh a group of my friends actually submitted a business proposal to the university. There was a program called Idea, where you submit a business proposal and they will give you a financial grant if you won that. My friends uh successfully uh submitted a plan and um got that financial grant to start up a clothing line called Annie Moles, personified word of animal. And it was really to create um a streetwear scene and fashion scene within the Boston and greater Boston area because there's not much, uh there's not many up-and-coming brands coming out of Boston uh during that time. And so even uh with like I think the rise of Karma Loop um being based out of Boston, there was a huge presence of streetwear and e-commerce within the uh the community, but there was no gathering place uh for people to kind of network with each other. And so what uh the founders originally did was create a pop-up store on Newberry Street called The Concrete Jungle. That was the first of its series where it really created a place for all these creatives in Boston because Boston's filled with you know colleges and universities, but there's no gathering point for these younger people to kind of yeah, gather and just share ideas, you know, network and just how long was that pop-up store there? The pop so we did have a series of three pop-ups. So Concrete Jungle was the first one. I think that one lasted a year. Second one was Green Street Jungle, which was in collaboration with another partner uh from Babson University. He was going around town with a food truck, uh, but converted it into a uh a streetwear shop. So he would go around college campuses selling streetwear clothing. Um, and he was capturing a scene, so we decided to collaborate with him and made it Green Street jungle so we could kind of bring that crowd that he attracts at different campuses to a central point in Newberry Street. That was round two. Round three was Kyoto Jungle. Um that's where I had the most involvement in. And uh this is where kind of we synergized with um other producers. There's this company called One Off Apparel. They're a t-shirt manufacturer out of uh Massachusetts. They do a lot of the print projects for, you know, the Patriots, the Red Sox, things like that. But we actually had a die sublimation printer in the back of the shop doing customized pieces, you know, in store.

Andrew 11:26

How was that experience? What did you learn from that?

Hayato 11:28

It was nice. It was uh it was uh definitely the opportunity to kind of really collaborate, create a community, network with one another when there were special, you know, uh artists and rappers from uh other states visiting Boston. They would pop by the store, we would have events. So I I really felt like it building a sense of community in the fashion scene in Boston was the biggest takeaway from that experience.

Andrew 11:54

And is the brand still exist?

Hayato 11:56

Unfortunately, no. Uh the founders, uh, one of them moved to New York and then uh another kind of pursued different opportunities. It was really more of a a good college experience uh to really express creativity in a more tangible way, if that makes sense.

Andrew 12:13

Yeah, it does. So then when you graduated, what did you do after you worked at that brand?

Hayato 12:18

After working in embroidered hats, printed t-shirts, I wanted to know a little bit more around the manufacturing of fashion. And so when I was pursuing opportunities, there weren't much, to be honest with you, in in Boston. There's a lot of footwear, you know, companies out of Boston, but there's a ceiling to what you know uh Boston offers in terms of fashion industry opportunities. So I I quickly, you know, gravitated towards New York as a fashion capital of the U.S. And during that time, my wife, or my my girlfriend at that time, was uh working at Katsu, New York. And so through her connections, I was able to meet with a person that worked at Shimaseki. They were only looking for an intern at that moment, but after kind of speaking with them and they got to know me, they quickly arranged a position for me to kind of help with their product development team. And that's what got me into Shimaseki.

Andrew 13:15

Okay, let's stop there and spend some time here. The listener, not everybody knows who Shima Seiki is, so why don't they tell their little story? Because I think it's interesting to learn.

Hayato 13:24

Sure thing, sure thing. Shimaseki, they're uh the world's leading manufacturer of flatbed knitting machines.

Andrew 13:31

Let's start from the beginning. They're Japanese.

Hayato 13:33

Yeah, they're a Japanese company uh based out of Wakayama. How old is the company? They are around for over 60 years now. 60 years? Yes. They produce they're the world's leading manufacturer of flatbed knitting machines. Which are means what? It's it's just knitting machines that are in a flat uh shape, kind of like your dubier machines, like your hand knitting machines. Yes. Um, it's not the circular ones that you see that knits your socks, you know. It's a flat shape, so you're generally speaking, um, knitting flat panels uh at a time. However, for for them, they were actually quite a unique company as innovators in this kind of knitting space because they were actually the pioneers of glove knitting machines. The founder, Dr. Shima, um after World War II, his mother was taking on the process of linking on uh the different panels of gloves together, like the rib all in one shot. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew 14:31

So he didn't have any sewing involved, they just knitted the gloves.

Hayato 14:35

Yes. He he was a pioneer of the first seamless glove knitting machine, which kind of overcame the struggles that his mother was uh taking on. Quickly from that glove knitting machine, um, he took the kind of five fingers. I I know this isn't gonna be shown on video, but if you take the three middle fingers on your hand, he envisioned that to be kind of like your body. And then the pinky and thumb can be your sleeves, and then that rib portion on the cuff can be kind of like a turtleneck. So from that glove knitting technology, he expanded it to offer seamless garment knitting machines, which is called whole garment. And that was what what I was really focused on pushing in the in the US. So they make the whole sweater. It's a 3D printer for sweaters, all knitted 3D goods. So it could be 2D knitting, which is your flat, flat panel knitting, which everyone uses today, that requires a little bit of linking on the seams to kind of attach the panels together. There's 2.5D knitting, which is you know, your engineer knit concepts that's used in like flat uh knit applications such as um shoe uppers, you know, like your fly knits, prime knits. And then you have your 3D knits, which knits everything in one entire piece, no seams, no uh additions afterwards. It's an amazing technology. I definitely think it's it is a is a great technology. It's less labor intensive, and you're minimizing the uh raw materials that you need to use per garment. How much are those machines? They range around like 150 to 300k approximately.

Andrew 16:14

They're not cheap.

Hayato 16:15

They're not cheap. They're not cheap. But in terms of like considering the you know increasing labor costs in the US, I was also involved in some of the reshorting projects during early COVID. But you know, if you're trying to bring production back to the US, you can't do it in the same way we used to, which you know, the labor-intensive processes are uh a lot difficult. So with uh 3D knitting or whole garment knitting, if you have the capital, you could um invest in that and have the machine run for you pretty much, you know. There's factories that I've um kind of helped set up in Brooklyn that does offers on-demand production made in USA, and so the capabilities are there. It's just the know-how and the the education is just a little bit weaker in the US. What does that mean? You know, ever since American brands started outsourcing in the 60s and 70s, um, they've lost touch of what it takes to create a garment, and that has created a disconnect in how much appreciation we have towards making things and and uh the product creation cross process, which is unfortunate, you know. And uh I think this is what created the gap in terms of the the opportunity to create these new production workflows that might be considerable for the future. How long did you work there? I worked there for eight years. That's a long time. That's a decent number of time, and um, you know, during that time I did, you know, gradually change my position. I was really a business development person, um, as well as a PR marketing, as well as sales, um, kind of doing all things knitting uh technologies. But the issue that I felt there was that, you know, even if you have a sustainable form of knitting, such as whole garment, where you're really using the only the amount of materials that you need, a lot of people opted into poly-based yarns and fibers, which defeated the purpose of using a sustainable knitting method, right? And so I wanted to focus a little bit more on using more sustainable materials so that you can accentuate the sustainable knitting properties. And so, yeah, that that's where I gradually shifted my interest towards maybe influencing brands on their fiber decisions. So you were doing sales for them? Sales, marketing, and pretty much anything to kind of promote the Hobartman technologies in the US, as well as they also have another area called the the Apex um design system, which is Apex Fizz now, which is a software version. But that's also kind of highlighting the digital product creation side of things. I see. So you enjoyed that? I did. I did. I think it was, you know, for me, I naturally gravitate towards innovation, newness, whether that be technologies, uh processes, or even new brands. You know, I love new, I love following what's new in the market. So I always continue to chase new opportunities, innovations. Um, and I feel like they're they're definitely in the forefront and they're ahead of its time almost, uh, because it's it's taking a lot of time for consumer adoption or even yeah, brand level adoption.

Andrew 19:32

This episode of the Jeans Land Podcast is brought to you by Inside Denim, the global resource for everything denim, from sustainability insights to fabric innovation and brand stories, shaping the future of the genes industry. Inside Denim keeps you informed and inspired. So stay ahead of what's next in denim at insidedenim.com. You can also visit genesland.co and sign up for our bi-weekly newsletter. It gives you access to our full archive along with the development shifts and stories shaping the denim supply chain in real time. Follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram to stay connected between episodes. And then you went from there. Where did you go from there?

Hayato 20:11

So from there, I uh actually I did a collaboration during that time with lensing fibers uh on a tensile model indigo uh program. I remember that product.

Andrew 20:22

That's great.

Hayato 20:24

So um it was a game changer for the knitting industry at that time. You know, knitted knitters generally don't want to touch indigo yarns just because it stains their equipment. They have to do heavy, deep cleaning after every production run. Um, but this was a game changer as it has no color fastness or it doesn't rub off. And so we quickly did a collaboration with Trisha at the time at Lensing and Adriana Goldsmith to come up with a capsule collection called Seed of Joy that used indigo model applications in whole garment um knitting technologies.

Andrew 20:56

And then from there you went to work for lensing full-time?

Hayato 20:58

Yes. So that's when I decided to hopefully join the lensing team, influence brands on their kind of fiber level decisions so that the end product can be a lot more sustainable. And how what do you do with lensing now? So for lensing, it's really about engaging, informing, and collaborating with our U.S. brand partners uh to really consider our fibers for future product collections. This kind of involves around highlighting new applications, new technologies, new processes that might uh add a new edge to their existing TEN Cell lines, or it could be engaging with them to really figure out their material strategies from a sustainable angle. But the overall thing that I kind of uh what piqued my interest towards fibers is that there's this report published by the fiber year that goes around the fiber gap, talking about how much uh fiber we need in the market to cover the global population. By 2030, they're expecting that number to be around like a hundred. Million tons to cover the global population. But the the yield and the production output of natural-based fibers are going to be very limited, such as cotton, you know, wool, bass fibers, things like that. They're not going to increase the production volume significantly to cover that global population demand. And most of that gap is unfortunately going to be covered by the synthetics area. And so what I envision is hopefully filling in that gap with cellulosic fibers such as TENCEL and Ecubero in hopes that they can consider a more sustainable future instead of relying on less sustainable applications.

Andrew 22:40

What do you think of synthetics like polyester and nylon?

Hayato 22:43

I think it's inevitable that we're still going to use it. I still love some polyester products till this day. You know, there's some performance that you can't achieve naturally, unfortunately. But I think when it comes to Jersey applications or like certain certain applications, it makes more sense to rely more on natural-based fibers.

Andrew 23:03

Well, I'm interested. This is one of the things that I'm interested in when talking to young people is what do you and your friends like or dislike in this industry? Like, do you like synthetics? Do you think it's good?

Hayato 23:15

I think at the end of the day, synthetics, like the material properties are second consideration or third consideration. First consideration for most consumers is always going to be the look and design. If that, if it doesn't look, even if it's a sustainable product, if the product does not look good, they're not going to purchase it, right? The first is the the look and design buy-in. Second is the price point, meaning if you can if it justifies that value or not. And then third is going to be the material or additional kind of add-ons that that people will consider. So generally speaking, even amongst my friends, it's always going to be the price and design first. And then as an extra or um cherry on top, if it's sustainable, it'll be a better, it will connect with their more kind of emotional side that they're feeling better for using a more sustainable product.

Andrew 24:08

So when you sell to the brands, is it the same kind of three issues?

Hayato 24:12

I would say so. I would say so. Um, but then when it comes to brands, it's not they're the ones designing the product, right? So design and uh look, I think it's less of a factor. It's more about the performance and hand feel first for brands. Price obviously comes second, and uh and then and the sustainability kind of comes afterwards. The other thing that I do want to mention is that, you know, when you're talking to designers and product developers, you're really focused on those like hand feel, price, those types of uh aspects. But there are times where I'm engaging with the sustainability teams at the brands, right? So the conversations aren't really necessarily on the fabric level or the hand feel. It's gonna be around material choices. And if the brand has uh their own SDGs, for example, they need to figure out their material strategy to minimize their water consumption, uh carbon emissions. And that's where our fibers also come into play.

Andrew 25:08

Do the sustainability departments have a say in the purchase?

Hayato 25:12

They can sell set up material matrices, meaning like they can pre-approve certain types of materials into their you know platform for designers to choose from.

Andrew 25:24

Right. They can't make a decision on this particular fabric or this particular, they can just put them on the matrix.

Hayato 25:30

Yeah. So they they can set the baseline of you know what materials brands can select from. And for example, if it's a completely new fiber, it takes a little bit of time for them to kind of involve it in their material matrix and then lead to adoption for the designers to choose from.

Andrew 25:46

I see. You've created a small brand called Nishi and focused on customized and upcycling. What is it and what inspired you?

Hayato 25:55

So for me, like I'm I naturally consider myself a creative. I like I used to take ceramics, uh, Ivy higher level. I like making things with my hand. I I do a lot of sewing projects on myself.

Andrew 26:07

By the way, that doesn't sound like the typical fiber salesperson.

Hayato 26:10

Right? Um, but I feel like I needed avenue to one, have a revenue stream to survive in New York, and then another to kind of express myself creatively. And so with the corpus side, obviously there are some limitations of how I can express myself because it's really the brand partners that's taking our fibers and putting it into products. So for me, I just wanted to have uh another angle for me to express myself creatively. Nishi and is really a personalized project where I make curated pieces per individual. So it's really for my family and friends. Uh, some of my friends that are kind of artists uh making music. I would make upcycled pieces, curating vintage patchworks, pins, hats, you know, kind of creating that. I also did a collaboration with um a friend who owns Brooklyn Vintage Club. Um did a 16-piece collection on uh upcycled starter and chalk line jackets from the 90, uh 1992 and 1993 to just like uh highlight the nostalgia that we have from some of the those sportswear memorabilia, but not wearing the full jacket, but kind of representing it in a way that's a little bit more usable for people in our 30s and 40s.

Andrew 27:23

Do you learn anything from your own project that you use for corporate?

Hayato 27:28

Um there are certain cases where I might have some takeaways, but for the most part, it's more of a creative expression angle. Um, not too much that I could take away from a corporate side, unfortunately.

Andrew 27:40

Okay. So let's go back to Denim. Now you've been around a long time, relatively long time. How many years in the business? 12 or something?

Hayato 27:48

12. Oh, wait. Um, if you include those uh streetwear startup days, then it would be over 15. Okay.

Andrew 27:55

What did you learn about denim and what do you think about denim today?

Hayato 27:59

I think Denim is um an interesting area because uh since I was exposed to more of the, you know, the 3D knitting side of things where everything's streamlined in one process. Denim uh it give gave me a lot more uh depth in in manufacturing just because there's so many more complicated. Yeah, so many more players within the the the the product stream, right? So you can't do it all. I mean, there are vertical factories that do it all under one roof, but uh for the most part, unlike 3D knitting, there's there's a collaboration effort, and there's also processes in between each each stage. And so that's what gave me a lot more appreciation and um towards denim and want to understand the the depth of each process, right? Or else I want to understand um denim fully.

Andrew 28:55

Do you see any difference between American genes and Japanese genes now?

Hayato 28:59

I would definitely say there's um a difference being that you know Japanese denim tends to focus a little bit more on the craftsmanship and heritage of um of making denim, whereas there's not much emphasis on sustainability.

Andrew 29:16

That's true.

Hayato 29:17

In the US, it's the it's kind of the other way around where they're focused on more better processes, better materials, whilst maintaining that authenticity and heritage. What genes do you like? I personally go to are Levi's, um, I would have to say. My What about Uniclo? Uniclo's nice, they they make great quality. Um that was I think early in my days when I couldn't afford too many good denims, those were my go-to's. And also, um, you know, trends also shifted too. So I think early on when I was looking at stretch denims, uh skinny jeans were popular in you know the 2000s. So when I was into skinnies, I think Uniclo I I offered a lot more affordable options during my early college days, late high school uh days. But now I think I gravitate more towards non-commodity items, if that makes sense. I I I like purchasing things that um differentiate me in a way. Where do you shop? I shop around uh I do a lot of vintage shopping still. Uh one of my favorite pairs is like a sample Levi's 1970 Olympic pair that I own. Um Do you go to Macy's? Or you and your friends go to Macy's or Bloomingdale's or unfortunately not. Not to shop. I'd go there to do market research. I do a lot of shopping at more local, locally owned stores. One of my friends owns Ansun, that's in the kind of the meat packing area, has a lot of great kind of independent brands and designers. There's also blue and green Soho that captures a lot of Japanese denim, capital, engineer garments, you know, sugar cane. There's also Self Edge in Lower East Side, which also has a great creation of unique salvage applications. But I I think I like the more the storytell angle of uh denim pieces nowadays.

Andrew 31:15

What do you think about the department stores? I mean, their potential in the long term. I think there's young people like it started when my daughter was my daughter's 46, but when she's when she was young, she was not so inclined and to go to Macy's. She'd say, Oh, I'll wait for you outside, you know, while you go in because it's too hot in there. Young people, even 20 years ago, didn't want to go to department stores. What and department stores are having lots of troubles. Yeah. How do you see that as a as a member of the industry? How do you see the distribution of our merchandise?

Hayato 31:47

I think it's um with the presence of e-commerce, the social media, like speed to market and connection with your consumers are crucial, you know, for brands to survive. And when you have kind of department stores in between, it dilutes the messaging for most of these brands. So even if there's a new startup company that's doing well and uh Macy's was interested in selling their I I don't want to call out Macy's specifically, but if a department store wants to carry their item. Um love them all. Yeah, we love them, yeah, we love them all. But just just speaking, I think it they lose a lot of the character and the connection that you can have with your customers when you do it directly. You know, a lot of these brands nowadays, they don't even have a brick and mortar. They do e-commerce, they connect with their cuss customers digitally through social media, activate campaigns, and have a closer relationship to their customers than bigger brands can.

Andrew 32:46

Yeah. So if you were an investor in uh brands, you would not invest big in brick and mortar.

Hayato 32:52

I'm not saying that, to be honest, because there's also different ways that brick and mortar attracts cuss customers. It's just the level of engagement needs to be a little bit more different, right? It's it's more experiential, it's more community driven that brings consumers back to that brand. Understand. For example, like it's it's not a denim uh brand, but there's a a store nearby. I I lived right off the Graham Ave Stop in Brooklyn, but there's a shop called Home Run, New York. It's a Japanese American brand. They base their products off of like baseball-inspired streetwear. But every like weekend they have runners gathering at their store. They they do a run series and they have events in stores. It creates a community and creates a different attachment towards the brand, right?

Andrew 33:41

There's a store in um Houston where I live. It's owned by PJ Tucker, ex-MBA player. And he has a basketball court there. Oh. Like a small, you know, kind of streetwear store or sports store, it's across between sports and and street. But then he has this basketball court and he has this whole entertainment area.

Hayato 34:09

Yeah.

Andrew 34:09

And I think the store is like mind-blowing.

Hayato 34:12

I think, yeah. So in that sense, like um, when it comes to brick and mortar, omni-channel, or like the the presence of offering diverse categories within one shop to uh give a better experience to the consumers and better options is gonna be the the the future of retail, I would say. So instead of one department store carrying various brands from you know high, low, medium tier, um, you could have places like um you know Uniqlo in Fifth Ave uh that offer cafes uh that have like uh in-print studio or in-store print studio, embroidery services, you know, having those types of engaging activities is what brings customers into the stores.

Andrew 35:00

All right. I want you to talk to me about what it is that you love and what it is you dislike in our industry.

Hayato 35:08

What I love. What I love is when we collaborate amongst one another and share learnings to kind of better the industry in a sense. The on the other hand, what I don't like is when um there's um there's a lot more efficient streamlined workflows that we could consider, but we aren't able to do that due to like corporate conflicts and things like that.

Andrew 35:33

Do you find the industry um surprising in its use of technology one way or another?

Hayato 35:40

Yes, yes, I would say the yeah, I I would say the the use of technology is definitely a key driver for I guess offering newness to the market. And I think that's what I gravitate towards naturally and uh newer technologies sometimes might not be the solution, but uh it is a step forward or a progress uh from where we were at. So I think always new technologies are interesting and encouraging for me.

Andrew 36:12

If you could do your career again, would you go back into the same path or what would you change?

Hayato 36:16

Um I don't know how I would change it because you know, the career path that I took led me to being here with you today. I don't know if I I would have had that opportunity if I chose otherwise. Um But if I were to consider myself, you know, going into the fashion industry right after high school, you know, I might have chosen a different university. If I'm I think that's the the That's how I feel.

Andrew 36:43

I would have gone to a different university for sure.

Hayato 36:45

Yeah. I think that's the only thing I I would have changed. But in terms of my career choices, I I'm happy with what I've experienced. And I'm still learning till this day. Um I keep my eyes open, ears open on what's new, what's and there's I'm never gonna be an expert. You know, uh I think I my life is about growing and learning. And so this is why I I really want to learn new things and um C We C newer applications, new innovations. I mean that that's what encourages me to look towards the future.

Andrew 37:18

What would you recommend for young people who want to go in this business?

Hayato 37:22

I would say a lot of people are even me when I graduated college, a lot of people are very uh worried about where they end up or the destination overall. But I think the journey and the learning process is part of the game. And I think that's what I want them to focus on. It's not about okay, where comparing yourself to others and where where we're all at in the career and like where we are at in our time of our lives. It's about learning and continuous education to better yourself and growing more than yesterday. And so any sort of like questions that you ask all these experts and and uh you know brands and mills that you meet with at trade shows, it's it's never gonna be a stupid question because these experts are learning new things every day too. So everybody is. So I think continuous education is what you need to focus on and always keep an open eye, open ear, and never shut the doors just because you have a certain mindset. Always keep it open because you never know when those uh relationships can come back.

Andrew 38:28

Last, very last question. What do you see the role of AI in our business?

Hayato 38:33

I would say it's it's definitely interesting. A lot of people are using it in the wrong ways. I would I would I I I would say What does that mean?

Andrew 38:42

Tell me what the wrong way is and tell me what the right way is.

Hayato 38:45

I would say uh I value creativity, human creativity. And um that's where people are using it, unfortunately. If we use AI in a way to streamline processes, train like machine learning, connect the dots between certain manufacturing processes, I think it would be a lot better. But unfortunately, AI isn't being used in those areas to bridge the gap, but it's really being used to replace the human aspects of creativity.

Andrew 39:16

Imagination sometimes, right?

Hayato 39:18

Yeah. And so, like, for example, when I was at Shima, I used to compare the fashion industry to the newspaper industry. For example, like the newspaper industry back in the day, they used to, you know, line up all the letters through for block printing. That has evolved now to a point where we're able to design everything on screen, see the outcome of what's printed or the outcome before you even go to production. Right now, with the fashion industry, it's still not at that stage where you're fully able to see things on screen and get the exact same output physically. Right now, there are tools that you're able to digitally create products on screen, but it's not designing it in the manufacturing language that can be plugged into the equipment at the end of the day. So if we could figure out a way to really bridge that gap between design and manufacturing, I think that'll be the biggest uh change for AI and machine learning.

Andrew 40:15

Hey, Atto. I just want to say it was a pleasure having you. Yes, thank you. I want to say that I think lensing is very lucky to have you. Thank you so much. I'm glad you reached out to me and you've had an incredible um start to your career. And I think you're gonna have an excellent life in this business.

Hayato 40:32

That that means a lot to me. So thank you so much again for your time for hosting me for this session and um look forward to connecting again in person.

Andrew 40:40

All right. Take care and thank you very much.

Hayato 40:41

Thank you. Bye.