Ep 67—FRESH BLOOD, Part 6: Rebuilding Local Manufacturing with Justin Bastarache

FRESH BLOOD continues with Part 6, featuring Justin Bastarache, Founder of Whelk and Pipo Canada.

Justin started with a sustainable headwear brand, then found the larger problem: almost nobody was making caps in Eastern Canada anymore. So he began building the factory himself.

Andrew and Justin talk about what it takes to make locally in a category dominated by imports. Labor, pricing, training, minimums, lead times, and why “Made in Canada” can matter more clearly than another sustainability claim.

They also get into his biodegradable brim, the limits of competing on price, and the reality of building a small factory from the ground up.

This is a conversation about local manufacturing, practical sustainability, and creating capacity where it had almost disappeared.

Thank you to our sponsor Inside Denim.

Justin Bastarache
Founder of Whelk and Pipo Canada
Whelk, Pipo Canada, LinkedIn

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Transcript

Andrew 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Fresh Blood, which is a series of interviews of young people in our industry. We did a reach out, and we got lots of response from different places, from Pakistan, from Hong Kong, and then a friend of mine introduced me to our guest today, who I have only met online, never in person. He's young. I understand that he's 27, and I believe he's from Montreal, Canada. Which, for those of you that don't know, Montreal is or was the epicenter of the garment industry in Canada, at least when I was living there. Our guest name is Justin Bastarche. Bastarache? Bastarache. Bastarache. And I'm going to let him talk in a minute. But before that, I want to tell you that he's in the hat business. And while our podcast is about genes, there's a lot to learn from other industries, and Justin's story inspired me. I've never really worn hats, so I'm like an outsider on this entire subject. But before I start, there's some data I want to share with you before we start talking to Justin. So Justin's from Canada, his market is from Canada. The consumption of hats in Canada, as I understand it, is between 120 and 100 million hats a year, and the imports are 115 to 175, which is like 97%. Maybe 99%. Domestic production of hats in Canada is 1 to 3 million. Really, really tiny. And with that, just Justin, good morning. How are you? Good morning. I'm doing great. How about you? I'm good. Thank you for taking time to talk to someone who has nothing to do with your business. Worse, I'm not even a customer, but I do know a lot of people that would be. That's awesome. Thanks. So tell us from the jump, how does a Canadian guy get into the hat business? I assume that you didn't as a child you were not dreaming of making hats.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

It was by mistake, to be completely honest, and it's a a good mistake. So for context, I actually um started the a hat brand when I was in university. Um and back then it was nothing very different. It was just as a way to test out my business skills. Um and the only way I could stand out was by donating a percentage of our profits to ocean cleaning efforts, which is very boring now and uh wasn't a very good marketing plan from the get-go. But essentially what it did is that it opened my eyes to uh the fashions industry's dirty little secrets and the fact that it's among the top three most polluting industries is uh by the way, by the way.

Andrew 2:48

It's not I'm gonna stop you right there because I get really aggravated when people say that. And I really educate me. So I need you when you finish this podcast to go do a chat GPT or Claude or whatever co-pilot or whatever you want, and you go ask that question, and then you can tell me and by email what they told you. But I don't want to interrupt. Keep going.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Well, give me a preview. What's what's the answer?

Andrew 3:16

We can look it up as we're talking, no problem.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, sure. So um essentially, uh I was told that it's a very dirty industry in general.

Andrew 3:26

It is the top 10.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Top ten, okay. So it might not be in the top three, but it's it's it's in the top ten. So um, and uh the end of our of our first year of operations, um, we donated a portion of our profits to ocean cleaning efforts. And that nonprofit basically told us, thank you for the money, but you know, you've got a long way to go, especially with what with what you're doing. And if we can give you a tip, um look at how your hats are made. And they pointed us out that in inside of each hat there's a brim, and that brim is made out of plastic, and that's what they would clean up on the beaches, uh on the shores and in the oceans. And so that was kind of like a catalyzer to help us innovate. Um, because when we look at a hat, it's usually pretty much fabric. Um, and a lot of companies have used either like organic cotton or recycled materials, so that's not very innovative. And so our perspective, our our way into the sustainable headwear industry was with a uh more sustainable brim. And our solution to that is what we call the blue tech brim. Um, essentially it's a bioplastic. How do you say that? Blue tech. Blue tech. Yep, blue tech brim. Okay. And essentially what it is, it's a bioplastic that once is in a landfill, it will actually naturally biodegrade, and there is no microplastics whatsoever. Stop.

Andrew 4:55

How do you know that it biodegrades?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

It's been actually tested by uh independent, well, intertech essentially. We hired uh uh a third party was hired to do independent tests both in uh a landfill environment and in an ocean um environment. Okay.

Andrew 5:12

And then the biotech is what actual tech? Do you know?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Blue tech is essentially an additive that we add to uh the brim itself, which is why it's essentially a bioplastic. What it does is essentially it will send chemical signals to the bacteria in the environment to feast on the brim. So let me put you into let me put you into this specific scenario. You wear your hat during your entire life, and then one day you accidentally drop it in the forest, or you actually throw it away checking in the trash. The trash brings it to the landfill, and over there is essentially just a feast for bacteria. But the bacteria will want to eat on what's the easiest to do, on what's the easiest to feast on. Um, so instead of eating, let's say, the banana peel, the blue tech chemical will send a signal to say, hey, forget that banana. The brim here is going to be your meal for today. And so that's what accelerates the biodegradation. And so the bacteria will break down the polymer chains and then they'll poop out natural elements, so gas, water, uh, and soil, and uh it avoids the whole microplastic situation that we've kind of been stuck on. Wow. Wow. And do you have that patented? Unfortunately, we don't. Uh, during our three-year process, we tested out a bunch of different materials from cork um to bamboo, and then we realized that uh the packaging industry has been attacking this problem for for decades. And so we actually uh approached a packaging uh supplier and said, Hey, can we have fun with this in the headware industry? For them, they just laughed it off and said, sure, go go ahead, knock it off. And do you have competitors now? In the headware industry, no. That's funny. Yeah, it's it's uh it's the fact that not a lot of people know about this problem that really puts us uh on a competitive edge here. And then to bring this back to uh local manufacturing, it's by offering this imported product with the sustainable brim uh that people got interested in how can we make stuff more sustainable, and the end conclusion is always making it locally. So a lot of our clients were asking for this, and they made me realize that in eastern Canada there's no hat supplier whatsoever.

Andrew 7:38

There's no factory for hats in the eastern Canada.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Nope. They all shut down throughout the past decades with with reason. Um, but essentially we've in Canada we only have one competitor, and they're in Vancouver. So there's plenty of space for both of us to expensive place to put anything anyway.

Andrew 7:58

If you were actually planning to be in the most expensive place in Canada, you would pick Vancouver.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

There you go. There you go. So the fact that we're separated by a country for us is uh is is fine with us. There's enough to plenty to go around.

Andrew 8:13

And but you were in the hat business before you used before you came onto this and you were producing in Asia.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yes, yes, and I still am. I still am importing from Vietnam.

Andrew 8:22

So tell me that story. So I'm interested, is Vietnam got uh got no duty? Is that why you import from Vietnam?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

That's correct. Uh they've got this uh this accord, and uh just because um it used to be that China had a dirty reputation. Um and used to be well now it's becoming better, but but that just to say that uh geopolitically we're we're less risked. Uh there's less risk just be being with Vietnam because it's a more subtle uh country.

Andrew 8:56

And do you have like a big business importing? Like are you are you a player in the industry or are you just a survivor?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I would say for the importing, I'm a survivor, and that has led to creating the factory, which is the next big step up. Because to be honest, when it comes to importing, there's so much competition that uh there's very little way to stand out. Our blue tech brim was a nice way to get in, but it's there's a whole education process. Like it took me literally five to ten minutes to explain to you what what the brim is, and to to to give that task to someone else is very troublesome, and people just want easy stuff to understand. So if I tell them made in Canada, boom, that's when we hit a home run and people are suddenly interested. Can you do the brim in um Vietnam? So the brim is made in Vietnam, and then we import it here. Oh the brim the brim is made in Vietnam. The brim is made in Vietnam. The technology comes from uh North America, so we buy it here, ship it to Vietnam, and then it comes back with the the the brim made, and then we make the we we cut and sew the hats here in uh in Quebec.

Andrew 10:16

Wow, wow. And um made in Canada is also appealing for the Canadian customer?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Absolutely. Not only from like a patriotic point of view, but also from um logistically speaking. Um sometimes there's a brand that wants to do a unique hat, but when they go overseas, these factories ask for high MOQs, and for them it kind of discourages them. So they'll either do something, doesn't sell well, end up with a bunch of inventory and discount it, or they're they're just won't do the hat itself. So for us, it's a great way to squeeze in, say, hey, we exist, and to be able to offer them this this very product.

Andrew 11:02

And uh and you where do you sell your hats?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

So we have currently two main uh pillars in the in of our business. There's the first one is the promotional products industry. Um usually when it comes to locally made hats, because it's a very price-sensitive industry, it's mostly unions that we uh attract.

Andrew 11:22

Um so there's a lot of what do you mean by this mostly unions that you attract? In the promotional products industry, like the General Motors Working Association or something like that?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah, unions will will want locally made uh goods. Get out of here, really? And they'll pay more? They'll pay a lot more just because it's locally made.

Andrew 11:42

So you actually go sell to unions?

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yes. A lot of it, a lot of our business is unions. I would say in the promotional branch, yeah, yeah, majority unions. Wow. Yeah. Wow, that's shocking. Um just because other consumers are more price conscious and they just want a hat, which as cheap as possible, so they'll go directly to not directly to Asia, but they'll prefer Asia for for that reason. And then the second pillar of our business is retail and fashion. And that's where I talked before about the high MOQs, or sometimes it's just about leak time. Um, they don't want to wait uh one to two months of production overseas and then another two months of boat, uh, while we can knock it all out in three to six weeks locally um and get them a hat. Sometimes it's even uh because of logistics, it's even on par when it comes to the pricing. So what are your minimums? We like to say that we don't have minimums, which is somewhat of a lie.

Andrew 12:50

That's kind of a lie. But go ahead. Sounds sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

It's a white lie. Um, so we we don't have minimums just because we'll we'll charge more, but when it comes to economics for a brand to for to for them to be worthwhile, it usually starts at 50 units. Um, so you could buy five hats, but it's gonna be crazy expensive. But it it could be a possibility if you want to sell premium hats with like a this super rare fabric. So it really depends on your business model.

Andrew 13:18

Did any of the professional teams come to you in Canada for hats?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

So because I have short answer is yes, but because I have experience uh with the imported hats, I've approached a lot of players. Some of those, some of them had said yes, most said no because of the imported aspect. And then I kind of just knocked back on their door and said, Hey, now I have them made in Canada. And that for them is uh is a game changer. And let's just say that they answer emails more quickly now.

Andrew 13:49

So that's a potential area for you to grow. Absolutely. Game changer. Like the Blue Jays or the Leafs or the Montreal Canadians or those kind of people.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yes, well, I would say mostly in the retail industry, like the Simons of this world. Yes. Uh those are those that that are mostly interested. Um, and so the way I like to explain my sales cycle is that in the short term it's the promo industry that kind of keeps the business uh alive. And then because sales has always done one year uh sorry, fashion is always booked one year in advance, that's when those kind of two businesses uh complement each other.

Andrew 14:28

What about brands like Roots or other Canadian brands?

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Some of them are interested, some of them they say that they're interested on their sustainability page, but it's not the case. It really depends on who which person's door you're knocking on. And honestly, the the sad part or the sad truth is that it's all about contacts. Knowing someone who knows someone.

Andrew 14:54

So that's a that's a blockage for you, is to but you're young.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Well, that's the thing. I'm young, don't have much experience in in the field, so I gotta get my name out there and prove it to them that we're not just here to feel like it's a game.

Andrew 15:10

When you're young, you don't know anybody. Exactly. You're not born in the industry, your family's not in the industry, you have zero contacts. When I started my business, I knew absolutely zero people in the United States. Zero. Yeah, yeah. And it takes time and it takes uh patience and humor, and eventually you meet someone, and then that person knows somebody else, and the next thing you know, you know three people, and then you know nine. So hopefully that works for you in Canada.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, and I'm also like uh the factory is an hour and a half south of Montreal. Um so if you're not in Montreal, it's already hard enough to do fashion when you're not in Montreal. Ideally, you're somewhere in Toronto or you're in the States, so the that factor is a bit of a pain point, but uh locally since luckily since the pandemic, uh a lot more stuff is done online, so that has helped me bring those barriers down. Do you have your own brand? I do have a small uh entry-level brand that was that was initially started with the imported lineup, um, and now I'm slowly introducing um locally made stuff, and I'm also contemplating making a high-end uh strictly locally made brand itself. But uh the factory is really my priority here. So before I have too much fun, I gotta focus on the core. So tell me about the factory. Where is the fact? Where is the factory? The factory is in Sherbrooke, Quebec, so an hour and a half, two hours south of Montreal. All right. And do you own the land or you rent it? We rent the the space.

Andrew 16:51

You rent the space. And how much space do you have?

SPEAKER_00 16:55

We have about 5,000 square square feet. Um with it, we have six people on the sewing floor, and we're hiring to be able to grow.

Andrew 17:07

Nice. And um those people um that work there, they're clearly hat people that have been doing it in the past, or you had to teach them.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

So that's the thing with the hats. Uh nobody knows how to make them. So we essentially hired seamstresses, people that have experience either at Canada Goose or whatever, so they have experience on industrial sewing machines, and then we had to teach them on how to make the hats itself. It's not a high end criteria at all making hats because they don't exist.

Andrew 17:40

And how do you keep your people?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

I think it's a classic question.

Andrew 17:46

Because if because if they don't, if there's no one who knows how to make hats, you don't want to lose the employees you got, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Well, the good thing is I've got a very good production supervisor who who's self-taught. Um, he used to have a denim factory back in his country in Syria, and then he had to um leave the country and and and flee to Canada with with the war decade to go. Um and so he self-taught everything. I showed him a hat. He uh two months later, he showed me an even better hat. So essentially he's able to teach every every single one of those persons, of those people to make hats, essentially. So once we have them to keep them is just try to be a good boss.

Andrew 18:30

And your your import business, how active are you in that? How much of your time do you spend on that?

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Honestly, now with a factory, I spend 15, 10% of my time on the import business just because uh managing a factory is a lot harder than I thought.

Andrew 18:50

Time consuming. Is that your job managing or marketing? What's your job?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Um, so I have a background in marketing, so I would love to do more of that, but right now it's mostly uh operations and managing the factory.

Andrew 19:03

I see. So you drive from Sherbook every day to the factory?

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Yeah, yeah. It's a 15-15-minute drive. Uh I usually go out there in the afternoons. In the morning, I do more business administrative stuff, and then I go on the production floor and see how I can uh help out.

Andrew 19:17

Do you have any interest to open factories in other places or only here? So opening a factory like, let me give you an example. Your customers like made in Canada.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah.

Andrew 19:33

Is it a big leap for you to open a factory in Buffalo or in Burlington? Burlington, Vermont, that's really close to you. Is it any interest to you to open a small factory in Burlington, Vermont and use the same like playbook and try to appeal to American consumers?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

So I think these are two different questions between wanting to open another factory or addressing another market.

Andrew 19:59

Let me let me put the thing another way at you, okay? Being a Canadian. The reason I left Canada because I worked my guts out and I got an order for a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. And at a certain point I got tired of that. I thought, why don't I work my guts out and get an order for a million dollars? Yeah. Like the process doesn't make sense. Like if you have so many hours a week and you only have so many years of your life that you're actually interested in what you're doing, why would you do it and aim for 10% of the size of the market that you could get if you altered your location?

SPEAKER_00 20:39

So I think there's still a way to be in Canada and to offer to the states.

Andrew 20:43

Um and I think you hear what I'm saying, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And and I'll answer that question in in multiple bullet points if I can. Um so I think because we are in Canada and the currency rate has Americans have an advantage on the currency rate, uh, I think it's there's still a good positioning to have to make the hats locally in Canada. That said, if I I agree. Good. That said, if I had to move my factory to the States just for whatever reason, um I would choose a place where there's accessible labor. Because at the end of the day, um hat manufacturing is very labor-intensive, and so I would go where there's more accessible employees. Um, and I haven't really done that analysis, but I think right now in Quebec, Quebec and introduces or welcomes a lot of immigration, which is a huge source of labor for us.

Andrew 21:41

I um so a couple of things. When I started my career, the Canadian dollar was 40% higher than the American dollar. Boy. Okay. So the Canadian dollar having dropped to less than the American dollar, I can remember when it first started dropping when Rennie LeVal. Came. My family all had these like monoton parties for me. Oh, poor boy. The Canadian dollar is dropping. It's going to go out of business for sure. And actually, it worked out better, but no one understood it at the time. Secondly, what I want to say is that, yes, if you could do the marketing of made in Canada and sell that to the United States, that would be a really a home run. But I worry about one thing for you. Yep. If you don't own the IP on your patent, how do you know that the biggest patent, biggest ad um, how do you know that the biggest hat company in the world does not got to go chase you down?

SPEAKER_00 22:38

It's a very good um point that I've been asked multiple times. And I think the answer to that is I have right now a five-year head start on that problem and on those potential solutions. And I'm already working on a second version of the brim that eliminates my dependency on the on this technology, all while improving the sustainable aspect. So by the time they like right now, they're probably ignoring me because I'm such a small fish in the pond. Yes. And then by the time it comes on their desk, um, I'll already be running away with v2 or v3 of this, and they'll be playing catch-ups. So I'm not too worried about the intellectual property. It was just a nice way to accelerate things and go to market without having huge uh investor money behind me because essentially this is all a bootstrap business.

Andrew 23:33

All right. Now let's talk about efficiency in factories. Yes. What is the difference between the output per person in Vietnam to your six guys or six ladies or six Syrians or whatever you have in your factory?

SPEAKER_00 23:49

So um it's I'm unsure, I'm unable to compare what they do in Asia just because I don't have the stats. What I do know is ultimately it comes down to pricing. That's the question I get asked often is okay, how does a hat made in Canada compare to a hat made overseas? Good question. I want to know. So there's two things you gotta keep in mind. It's first the labor and then the materials. Materials is very low and significant, and it doesn't move a lot while labor that does. Materials don't have say that again. Materials, the the pricing doesn't fluctuate that much.

Andrew 24:31

In hat.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Yeah.

Andrew 24:33

Because because there's so little quantity in the hat, is that why?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Exactly. So, for example, one one meter of fabric can yield um, depending on the hat, it can be eight hats, it can be 14 hats if it's a trucker hat with with mesh. Right. So not a lot of material, but it's mostly the labor where it really plays out, and that's where we really struggled at the beginning was getting something that was uh low enough to be competitive, all while the quality is is good because we're competing against Asia here that have decades of experience in headwear and that can just sew hats with their eyes closed, right? Yes. So that was that was a huge thing at first, and so right now, if you take a hat that I import that price and I compare it to a hat that I make locally, the locally made hat is about three times more expensive, and I'm working on bridging that down to twice as expensive.

Andrew 25:29

Okay, so if a hat costs three dollars, your hat's six or nine.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Exactly. Right now it's more at nine, and uh the the way to bring that down is really, first of all, it's all about practice, uh get improvement improvement through through time, and also thanks to automation.

Andrew 25:48

And go let's go back to Canada and immigration, because I I'm interested in that because I'm I'm my family were refugees to Canada. Right. So I'm real familiar and really um comfortable in talking about uh refugees and immigration. So your six workers are from where?

SPEAKER_00 26:08

The majority is uh they're immigrants from uh Morocco, Syria. That area, essentially.

Andrew 26:19

That area. And you pay them what, minimum wage or more than minimum wage? Or does the government does the government help you?

SPEAKER_00 26:27

No, no help from the government. On the contrary, um they're they're above minimum wage. I'd say the average uh salary is about$20 an hour.

Andrew 26:36

Wow. And for Americans, they should understand that's about$14.50 American,$15 American.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew 26:45

And your work week is how long?

SPEAKER_00 26:48

It's a 40-hour work week. Um they like to have their Friday afternoons off, so they do uh an extra extra hours during the week to have that um Saturday, essentially. What about Saturdays and Sundays? No. With family at home.

Andrew 27:03

Nobody works. Nobody works. This is one of the things I loved in Canada is that term. Nobody works. That was that was really good.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

That that might change in in the future with uh night or or weekend shifts, but at the stage that we're at right now, um, that's how we like to roll. Um, make sure everybody works at the same time with our production supervisor. And and it's makes sense because we're such a small team.

Andrew 27:32

All right. Now I want to talk to you about as a as a consumer. You're 27, right? Correct. Okay. What do you and your friends think about sustainability when you buy apparel?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

I have a very different mindset.

Andrew 27:47

What do you think about it at all?

SPEAKER_00 27:49

My friends don't really care about it. Um, but I have a professional uh bias uh because of all that.

Andrew 27:58

Um you have a bias because you care about the industry or the world, or do you care because it's a business tool?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Both, actually. Um I used to be very well, I still am actually very uh eco-conscious about things. Um and now like what? It's about consumption in general. Uh tell me exactly what you mean. Well, for example, my uh girlfriend wants new furniture for the apartment. Right. Um her her reflex will be to go to IKEA. Right. But I say, wait a minute, why don't we just go on Facebook Marketplace or the local Goodwill and see if there's something that we we can find? And it's it's not because I'm cheap, it's just because it's already there. It exists, right?

Andrew 28:45

And what does she say when you say that?

SPEAKER_00 28:48

She calls me cheap. Calls you cheap. No, but she doesn't necessarily call me cheap, but essentially it's it's it's human nature to be to be able to want uh to be able to want the latest and greatest. And there's like kind of like that dopamine effect. So it's counterintuitive for her to say, no, no, no, forget that, and let's go buy the the the secondhand stuff. Um and so that kind of translates to to clothing as well for me, especially when I hear all about this, the fast fashion industry and how things work. Um and when people buy from stuff like Shein and all that, it makes me freak out just because I know that uh materials are crap and the labor is probably being uh abused or or stuff like that. I don't want to um say say stuff without facts, but it's it's scary essentially.

Andrew 29:42

So you care, but none of your friends do.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

It depend on the friend group, but I think it's more of a mentality that people get into when uh there may be end of their 30s when they have more money and they can actually uh walk the talk, while people of my age are getting out of the university, have debt, getting on the on the job market, and so that's not maybe not their priority at at the moment. Do you think the government should be involved in this? I'd love to, but I think it's just moving too slow for that to happen.

Andrew 30:22

Okay. Now I want to go back um to what we talked about before about our industry. You don't mind listening?

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yes, yes, sure. About the fact, yeah, the the top three.

Andrew 30:32

Please read what you got on Chat GPT on the industry being the dirtiest industry, because I think our listeners need to hear this over and over and over again, and it's never too much.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Well, I think that the first sentence here is important because it says, well, first, my prompt was what are the top ten polluting industries worldwide? Yes. And the answer says determining the top ten is complex because pollution takes many forms, whether it's uh gas house emission, greenhouse gas emissions, uh toxic waste, blah, blah, blah. But the number one was energy and fuel, which is a no-brainer. Second is agriculture and food. Third is transportation, and then my famous fashion one is number six.

Andrew 31:21

Mining is up there.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Uh mining.

Andrew 31:25

I gotta tell you a funny story. I was asked to speak on a on a during COVID on a, you know, the fashion magazine L, the educational program, and I was, you know, picked to be one of the speakers on this daily seminar. And the person who introduced the seminar was the prince or whatever he is from Monaco, Albert. Count, whatever the hell this guy was, but Mr. Royal, very royal and very special guy. And he comes on and he says that our industry is the second most polluting in the world, and I had a fit.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Well, it all depends on where you get your your data from, but I think whether it's number two, three, four, five, or six, the fact that it's in the top is very concerning. I agree.

Andrew 32:15

All right. How do you grow your business, make your business um much larger so that you can employ more people and um provide more of a financial um help to your stakeholders?

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Right now it's uh it's as ridiculous as just getting the name out there because we've got a great product and it's just we're new to the industry. So when it comes to locally made stuff, um and I think it's educating people, uh, reminding them uh about what they're wearing, how they're wearing it, and to instead of buying more, maybe buying less and more intentionally. Just somewhat somewhat counterintuitive because we're making hats, but if they're gonna choose between buying three really cheap hats or one made in Canada and wear it more often, I think that's the the route we should promote.

Andrew 33:15

Justin, I want to say that um I really loved interviewing you. I'm really grateful you came on. I love what you're doing. I want to talk to you about it after we get off this call. And um let's see if I can help you. And I just think what you're doing is great and uh you're inspiring to young people. I appreciate the kind of words. Thank you for doing this.