Ep 73—FRESH BLOOD, Part 7: From Upcycling to Opportunity with Landon Williams

FRESH BLOOD is about renewal. Every industry either regenerates itself or slowly hardens. In this Jeansland series, Andrew steps back to listen to the next generation already working inside denim’s supply chain, upstream in fibers, sourcing platforms, laundries, and raw materials.

In Part 7 of the series, Andrew sits down with Landon Williams, denim designer, artist, and founder of Nolia James.

Landon grew up in Mississippi, surrounded by generations of makers, repairers, and creatives. What started with altering and repairing clothes eventually led him to Levi’s, denim production, upcycling, and a growing interest in how garments can be transformed rather than discarded.

Andrew and Landon talk about denim fit, manufacturing in Chicago, indigo dyeing, upcycling, and why he believes the industry needs to think differently about waste, materials, and the lifecycle of clothing.

They also get into new fibers, secondhand fashion, the future of retail, and why some of the most interesting opportunities may come from finding value in what already exists.

For Landon, waste is not the end of the process. It is where the next idea begins. And maybe that is exactly where the industry needs to look next.

Thank you to our sponsor Inside Denim.

Landon Williams
Founder of Nolia James
Nolia James, Landon's Instagram, Nolia James' Instagram, X

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Transcript

Andrew 0:00

If you value these conversations, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more than you think. There is a moment in every industry when the veterans look around the table and realize something uncomfortable. And that's that the room is getting older. Maybe you are already the oldest person at the table. Fresh Blood is a series inside Genes Land where I step aside, or at least lean back and listen, to the people under 30 who are already inside the gene supply chain. Not influencers, not commentators, not big-time fancy operators. They're the next layer, the next shift, the next pulse. The series is about catching the heartbeat of a new generation, how they think, about their genes, the industry and its future. And I want to hear from people not just in Europe, Turkey, or USA. I want to hear from those in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, China, wherever. Please do write me. In this series, we talk about sustainability from their point of view. Maybe most importantly, we ask whether genes will matter in 20 years, and if so, what the world will look like for them at that time. I'm doing this series because every industry faces the same test. It either renews itself or it calcifies. These are the voices that determine which direction we go. This series is called Fresh Blood. We hope you like it. I was introduced to Landon Williams through my friend Tia Richardson, who I've known for a really long time. Thank you, Tia, for this introduction. I've never met Landon in person. We're all going to meet him together today. We have talked on the phone. He has sent me his bio, and he has spoken to William Wood, who we did an interview with earlier in this series. So, Landon, welcome and thank you for doing Genes Land. I really appreciate it.

Landon 1:44

Thank you for having me, Andrew. It's a pleasure. Honor.

Andrew 1:47

It's exciting. Let's tell everybody first. Let's go from the top. How old are you? And what do you do in this industry? And how did you get here? I just turned 30, so I know I'm hitting that mark.

Landon 1:58

Um We had a 32-year-old last week. Don't sweat it. Okay. Yeah. I um got into denim industry via Chicago. I'm from Mississippi originally. You went to high school in Mississippi? I went to high school in Mississippi, yes. And then you went to Chicago? Yeah, Chicago for college. Yeah. And I finished up school. I studied fashion design and at audio production in school. Uh, and then after school, I was kind of feeling uh more so looking and searching, figuring out what I wanted to do after school, fashion-wise. So I leaned into audio production, but of course I was working a lot of uh like retail, and I ended up working retail for Levi's, and that really made me think about what I wanted to do a little bit more. And so that was like, I guess, my first official foray into the denim industry is on the retail side. Let's stop there because I'm I'm interested in that.

Andrew 2:50

So you worked in a Levi store? I did. And how was that experience? Tell me about it.

Landon 2:55

Yeah, Levi is uh it continues to prove itself very transformative. And the further I go in this industry and the places I go, I rely a lot on what Levi has taught me. And it's about denim fit, and then I guess more so the standards of denim, how denim is presented, how people think about denim, um, genes, uh, what people regard as genes at large and the popular, you know, uh in the populace. I learned a lot about converging like denim and how different fits do different things on different bodies. I had the pleasure of working with this guy who was uh he had worked there for almost a decade. Actually, it was a couple people that worked there almost a decade, but he was uh he worked at a tailor shop as well. So then I got that training too, like about fit, about the perfect denim fit, because he was coming from it as a perspective of transferring, you know, that knowledge of uh tailoring into the denim side. But I learned a lot. I ended up being a manager at Levi's and I ended up working in there for for years in Chicago before I made my my next forway into the production side.

Andrew 4:06

So tell me about the production side.

Landon 4:07

Yeah, that was around 2020, of course, with COVID. I was like looking at myself and I was doing stuff on my own. So I started working on my own clothes again around that time simultaneously, and I was like, you know, I think I think I'd rather be doing denim. And I was just looking at the videos, production, and stuff of that nature. So I was like, I was doing a lot of uh projects at home, going back into learning about uh stuff that I cared about uh when I before I went to school, and I realized denim was uh an entry point for me. So I really started making stuff, working with it. And then eventually I ended up uh Tell me what that stuff. You said you were working doing stuff with denims. What were you doing? I was my first denim project was me bleaching a shirt because I wanted a shirt that I saw on the internet, and I was I didn't, I was in the middle of Mississippi, and obviously there's not a lot of stores that I can go to. The closest like notable mall was two hours away, so I couldn't go to urban outfitters, which is a big thing for me. And then so yeah, I bleached a denim shirt, and that was one of my first things. I grew up skateboarding as well, so I always was asking my mom. My mom sewed as well, so I would always ask her to like fix my clothes and things of that nature. So that's when I started realizing like, oh, I really care about this like this uh relationship of repair and transformation because that's what denim becomes and that's what it is for me. And um, yeah, that was the that was the stuff that I was doing when I was before school. So when I was uh after school, I was again playing with how much I can do with denim, you know, painting on it, distressing it, things of that nature, but also trying to find it uh again, that Levi's training, make it clean as possible as well. That was always like a thing in my head, as of course, with the fashion training that I had. Like I wanted something that was like homeopathic, almost like made at home, but to a higher level. And that was like a lot of my thinking at that point. So then I was like, I need more training about denim and product, like actual construction of denim, because they teach you about clothes, dresses more so than how to make jeans in school. So that's when I found out about this opening at the a denim facility, a production facility in Chicago. It's called Dearborn Denim. Dearborn Denim. Yeah, Dearborn Denim. So I ended up being their pattern cutter for a while. I was doing like an automated pattern cutting and then some rotary pattern cutting. Um, also worked on the line a little bit sewing, but they mainly had me working with the patterns and um doing some of the automated versus the rotary tools. And then I ended up doing some sample management, running production for those and things of that nature. I learned a lot during that time. And then uh around that time as well, I was working with a designist uh as a design assistant in another studio with a designer, and we were like the main two people. And that that was, and we're working with upcycling denim. So then I was working from the beginning to the end, you know, because we were taking a lot of jeans, going around to stores, making these upcycled vests. Um her name was Chelsea Carter. She was an amazing uh designer, and she was uh really had found a foothold in upcycling, especially when it comes to denim in Chicago. So we were doing a lot of that, and then during that time too, I was getting more into uh the dying process, stuff of that nature, honing my skills on that side. And then I ended up working with uh another person, her name was Amanda. Uh Amanda, she did a lot of uh indigo dying. She does, she was a big indigo artist in Chicago. So I did an intensive learning more about the natural side of dying, and we're learning more about the indigo from the beginning from the leaves, all the way into like how the synthetics and how the vats are created and things of that nature. So yeah, that was kind of like then my journey into denim. And then along that time, I've been working with other people. That's how I meet Tia, and I've been doing my own things as well. I've just moved to New York, so I'm hoping to grow more. Yeah. Let's go backwards. What kind of a supply chain exists in Chicago? You know, great question, Andrew. Because I think that people overlook Chicago in terms of production. Because, you know, at one point never thought of it in my life. So this is the first time we're ever talking about it. So that's tell me. Oh no, I mean, so I love this conversation because uh people in Chicago don't know. Um, because it's very disparate. It's not like in New York where there's a garment district, or even um in uh LA, there's like that kind of cluster, like the garment district as well. It's kind of spread out. So you can pretty much weave in Chicago. There are some weaving mills in Chicago, but they do a lot of upholstery weaving. And there's uh it's called um, it's one of the oldest mills in the country still. They have weaving, they do a lot of uh, like I said, upholstery. And then we also have uh something called the weaving mill. And they also weave things from scratch, and they do a lot more cotton-based, linen-based things, um, not necessarily denim. I'm not even sure they even have um been prospected about that. But you can also do there's still there's some um cut and sew facilities in Chicago. One of the big ones, AI BI, they're like one of the uh strongholds of production. A lot of people kind of go through AI BI in Chicago. What do they do? They specialize in production management. So, more so you come to them and say, hey, I have this idea for to produce this garment. Where do I go? What do I do? What do I need? And they also work with factories to help them um get more in line with certain standards like in the world, you know, in terms of uh trying to be more optimal or sustainable. They handle a lot of that. They've been around since the 80s, and they've it's uh they've used it, is that place operates at a lot of different things because you can also rent it as a designer. Um, you can use it as a space. They've they've uh produced a lot of celebrity for like Super Bowls and stuff of that nature. People use that facility uh to make the clothes and stuff of that nature because they have plotters and stuff. Um and then uh what else aside? And then there's not many more so like uh like guy things that can happen in Chicago, but yeah, you can get things produced, and there are a couple of facilities like the like the the denim factory I was at was more of a private facility, but they did take on work um depending on what it was. Um yeah. Before we get to you in New York, tell me about Mississippi.

Andrew 10:30

Mississippi. Grew up in Mississippi. What is the deal in Mississippi with denim? What is the what is the relationship between denim and people in that state? That is also if there's an influence from your family, tell us about that.

Landon 10:44

Yeah, denim and Mississippi is integral cotton, right? It's like the thought of cotton and the production, a lot of cotton production or uh not cotton making and um uh harvesting was happening in Mississippi, of course, um, due to slavery. Um so I think there, and then a lot of uh work wear and what we think of work wear, you know, was used in Mississippi as a main production, you know, they call denim Negro Cloth in the States back in um those days. So a lot of uh people kind of have this weird relationship with denim, whether it be like it's close to me or I will never touch that, which is interesting. I was talking to my mother, who's a big influence to me. She's uh she's an artist in her own right. I don't think she'll accept that title, but she's uh she's a creative. She's always made, she's done every she did everything creative for her family, whether that be make their clothes, um, do their hair, you know, help them with whatever projects that they had. My mom was always that person. So um I learned a lot of that. She did not want to teach me how to sew, though.

Andrew 11:46

All right. Let's move to New York City. Okay.

Landon 11:53

Uh, New York City, my aspiration was to get a business around sustainability and learn more about being more inside of the denim industry. I think I have a lot of fringes, but I would like to work more inside of uh the denim studios instead of like outside of them or partner with them. A lot of my bigger aspirations are to create a secondary supply chain or a secondhand supply chain of sorts. Like I feel like there's so much waste in the world. And I guess that's that denim mindset is like, how can we make it better, make it more economical or sustainable? So I want to do things where, like, you know, there's a lot of air quote bad clothing out there, right? What do you mean by that? And so bad clothing means like it's made with bad materials, poorly constructed. Some people regard polyester as a bad fabric, so on and so forth, right? But to me, there's a lot of understated things uh that we don't think about at large. And I learned this from denim working in the upcycling studio, working with denim, we cut a lot of the legs off, right? And I see that a lot and at large on the internet. People cut the legs off and they they they make the thing. And I just wonder about the rivets, I wonder about the zippers, the buttons. It's like, what do what happens with those things? Because zippers can be saved. Um, and certain rivets can be saved as well. Like, how do we repurpose those and get those to people who can utilize them better or utilize them more? You know, and I think about that for like fast fashion, where, you know, they might be using some of the similar trims uh that are regarded as good. So it's like, what can we take from those materials and repurpose it and give it? What does it look like to take uh something from a fast fashion brand and give it to a designer brand or something more, you know, slow fashion, I guess. So what are you doing now in New York exactly? Right now, I am I'm actually working a retail job um day to day, and I work at this store called Blue and Green. Really? You work for Blue and Green, and then what else do you do in the denim industry? And then I'm also working um just taking on a little sideways. So I've been taking on upcycling projects, work now, working on um, I'm trying to ease my way back into the denim industry, find my way back there, or in there rather. Uh, but right now I'm working with a lot of upcycling projects. So I'm helping a woman develop her upcycle line and produce it and things of that nature.

Andrew 14:16

What does an upcycle line mean? Tell me exactly. Tell me specifically what you do with her.

Landon 14:22

So, specifically, so we take clothes, right, from stores that she's uh sourced or what she's found in the in the ether, and we come together and we look what's possible because she's starting out, and uh, she's taking my expertise in another uh um person I'm working with uh on the project, and we're using our expertise to help her scale it of sorts. So we're taking clothes and seeing what's possible with her vision to make out of these other clothes. So that could be as simple as um shortening hems and restructuring a blazer, or it could be flipping a dress upside down to adding um certain zippers and holes, so it creates this kind of uh um more of a like a unibody kind of high-neck situation because she wants something that's like business casual, but also has uh an air of um quality to it, uh like more so um richness to it. Like you can go to a dinner with it, but you can also, you know, go to your friend's house and have a statement piece at the same time. She's trying to ride that line because she uh she works with a lot of uh people who work in finance and um on the political sides of where she's from.

Andrew 15:30

Let me understand this exactly. You take old clothes or used clothes and then you you repurpose them.

Landon 15:36

Correct.

Andrew 15:37

Well, that's cool. And where do you and where does she or you guys sell it?

Landon 15:40

Uh she's gonna sell it in her home, uh, home state. So she's starting out. So she's hasn't sold these clothes yet. We're still in the production phase. Right. And she's looking to sell it at um, she's gonna throw a fashion show because she has investors. Yeah, it's like she wants the collection to get bought and saw it. So she's uh courting certain investors and people right now.

Andrew 16:03

Do you think that fashion is gonna be sold in different ways in the future? Like maybe it'll be sold in people's houses or it'll be sold in instead of its stores in different places?

Landon 16:12

Yeah, I think I think they already exist to an extent. I feel like people are getting fashion advice from AI, you know, and they're I think you can they're workshopping ways that uh that you can at tell Alexa to buy something for you, and then Alexa partners with Amazon and delivers it to you and stuff of that nature. So then, you know, you have uh like these projected apps of uh of uh talk to these people and I've gone to some sessions where people are, you know, they 3D map your body and then they get the measurements and stuff of that nature. And I think that's a way of people buying things through those apps, you know. I think there's always gonna be a middleman of source, but I think the store is like this amoebous form at this point. Like it's not as simple as walking in. Some I mean you they got the headsets now, right? It's like they do you could probably walk in virtual meta store and try on clothes.

Andrew 17:08

You're a young person. Do you do you like shopping in stores?

Landon 17:12

I do, I love touching clothes. Um, I'm curious to know what you think as well, um, in terms of like the the tactile sense of it all. But I love talking with people personally, and I love being able to go in a store and feel the fabric. You know, I might be biased because of my background and the profession that we're in, but I feel like I think people still value touch. I think they that will never go out of style. So here's what I was where I was coming from.

Andrew 17:43

So the stores in my lifetime that that were like amazing places, like like emporiums to buy many things, um, are gone. No, I understand you more now.

Landon 17:54

I think that yes, I feel like people are have democratized like more uh of how the store operates. What is I think that's what I was speaking towards too, is that what is the store? What is a store? I think there's more questions about what a store can be. And I think that we're getting to a point that eventually that yeah, that that that is the thing. Is that this there is a point where this store is in your room. Because I think the meta glasses thing is is that too, in a sense, right? Where it's like you're in your house, but you're in a a a marketplace trying on clothes. And I think that now, or like going forward, we will probably have more uh more ways to shop in terms of like in a more intimate setting. Um, like you were saying, in our houses, I don't think there's gonna be a point. Um I don't I think there will be a point where the store is kind of like the secondhand thing, possibly. Possibly. I don't think that nothing will ever crown the store. It's like, you know, uh people still have cable, right? You know? And but I think that now it's more so that the store will kind of change into uh change form continually based off of how we interact with with technology and touch. And I think that increasing an increasing amount that the people are more divorced from it because they're rather buy it online and ship it back two or three times than come to the store, you know. So and I've noticed that being on the retail side, even in this um in the past couple years.

Andrew 19:36

Is there anything in our industry that disturbs you like that would make you angry or that you don't like?

Landon 19:43

I think when it comes to like denim industry, I feel like uh there feels like a circle sometimes, and I wonder if there could be different ideas from other places. Tell me about that. What do you mean exactly? I I I feel like sometimes like people are regarded as denim designers, that this kind of feels like this uh a smaller kind of circle of people. And I wonder if there would be a benefit of collaborating more in or outside of that industry um with different places. Because I think it happens, of course, right? With um some of the processes that we see now, especially when you you think about LySL or I think about uh like Trisha Carey and the company she was doing, a scientific-based company. They're like producing materials to be woven with. And I think that I want to see more of that. Like I would love to see people trade places or like collaborate more. Um more of the collaboration with the other materials or other industries, but also I would love to see maybe that industry have more of a say of how the denim is created versus like designers coming to those people and saying, hey, we need these things versus like them.

Andrew 20:57

So you're saying what that the fabric companies should be involved in the design?

Landon 21:02

To an extent, yeah. I think so. Or if it's a a fabric company versus a material-based company, because some people produce materials for the fabric, right? So like the the yarn spinning and stuff of that nature, or like the like I said, the Lyo cells. I want to see more innovation in terms of the materials we use, basically.

Andrew 21:23

You would like so when I ask you about what you know you you don't like about the industry, you'd like to see more use of different fibers.

Landon 21:31

Yeah, more use of different fibers and collaborating more with people who are trying to push those boundaries. I think there's a lot of things happening, but I'm not sure if they cost pollinate as much as they should. Explain that model exactly. Working with a scientific company who produces materials in an alternative way or experiments with materials in a way that could be uh used in the weaving of the fabric. Do you have an example? Yeah, so like. Um breaking down fibers and polyester fibers to reuse them in new materials. So they're recycling the polyester, right? Then then re-weaving them with other fibers, and then that produces this fabric that has more, I guess, uh texture, or has um this more. I don't know. I feel like sometimes when we see recycled things, it always looks and like it's recycled, or it looks a little plasticky, or it looks a little homeopathic. Like I think there's some ways that the designer brands can collaborate with these more uh synthetic-based brands, or or something they're developing fibers or developing uh the fabrics, like we're saying, type of deal, to work with them to see what's possible instead of saying, like, hey, I see that you're doing this thing. Can I do it? Can I use it this way, you know, type of deal?

Andrew 22:49

Right, right, right. So, what is to you, what is the American look right now?

Landon 22:54

The American look is very uh slouchy, sweats, still business, still some Ivy going on, but it's a lot, it's a lot more casual per se. Uh I think the new American look is about comfort, whatever that might mean to you. I think we're all about being comfortable when it comes to, especially with this time of what let's work out and these run clubs and this uh very like uh I'm in my house, I'm on the computer, I am working from home, you know, things of that nature. So I think it's a very comfort-based and presentation-based uh look now. But is that fashion or is that just like giving up? I think it could be fashion. I think every act is a decision, and I think that that is a product of society, fashion. Right. What gives you hope as you go in your career? Gives me hope. I think what gives me hope is that meeting people, I think, is one big thing, like meeting Tia, like even getting a chance to meet you today. Um, it gives me shows me like there are so many possibilities in this industry. There's so many. And I think that gets me excited. I think there's more than one way to operate within the fashion industry, and I think I continually learn more.

Andrew 24:18

And what brands do you like today? What brands do you respect? Brands that I respect? Yeah.

Landon 24:26

I respect don't laugh. That's a really I mean it's respect is a very uh specific word, you know. I think that I respect a lot of what people do and how they operate. And I I hate to subscribe myself to a monarchy of sorts. So it's like, oh, this is the brand. Like, you know, I love everything they do. Um, but I think that I enjoy a brand like uh Sugar Cane, who does a lot of great things, Samurai. Um Samurai does a lot of great things. Like they're making the mayonnaise, cotton, cotton, uh, mayonnaise out of cotton. Um, I think that's again that innovation. Make what?

Andrew 25:13

What are they making?

Landon 25:14

Mayonnaise out of the cotton, their excess collar. What is that? Mayonnaise? Male? Like the condiment? They make food out of jeans? Yeah. Get out of here. That's what I'm saying. That's that's what gets me excited. That's the stuff that gets me excited. Go back. So that's it.

Andrew 25:32

Go backwards. Start from the beginning like I'm an idiot.

Landon 25:34

What are you talking about? Okay. So samurai is a Japanese denim company. They make uh a lot of jeans and a lot of denim wear. And they specialize with their salvage denim and their weaves and their cuts. I think that's like one of the biggest things about samurai that people enjoy. Yes. But they have figured out how to use their excess waste and extract. I'm not sure how the process goes, but basically they're able to extract the necessary ingredients, maybe the oil or something needed to create the mayonnaise, like the condiment that you use on like a burger or like, I know, like they have a cupie version. I know people love the cupie mayo. Um, it's like a sweet mayo that they'll put on, like uh like takoyaki, which is like octopus fried octopus balls in um Japan. But I also love coopy on anything. But they basically came up with their own version, um, own way of making it. And that's why I'm I'm like so curious, like how much how much waste happens in this industry and what can what can be intervened? What would happen if somebody who was a waste specialist in terms of the chemical side of it, right? What if they came in and said, hey, like I noticed that you guys use this thing when you make these genes, you use this indigo, you use this this fiber, you use this cane, and then you throw it away. Like, what if that person is able to say, hey, this can be used for to make grapes? I don't know, you know, and then they're like, okay, now you can you can compost the grapes and turn that back into, you know, like I think that's that's the stuff that gets me excited in terms of like using different fibers and using different waste materials in this industry because this is something that you know it's been talked about for decades. You can speak for it.

Andrew 27:20

Yeah, I think that you're talking about what to do with garbage. I mean, that's a huge issue, not just in denim, it's in everything that we have. What do we do with our junk?

Landon 27:29

Yeah, it's true.

Andrew 27:30

Put it back into value, it's amazing.

Landon 27:34

It's true. I think um, but I think denim is special, right? Because I tell people every all the time, I say, you don't make a dress and wash it, you know? Yeah. And so I think that there's so much more opportunity of intervention that can happen. Um, and then and I think we see it at large. I mean, you you've created a a trade show that speaks to that, you know. And I think that I'm so curious to see what other dips can be made, especially as I go further, because I'm not only in denim, I'm in the upcycling and I'm into the sustainability part of it as well. That's why I've been another kind of side project I've been working towards is like eventually that that secondhand thing I'm talking about, I would love that to be a B Corp. You know, um a mentor of mine put that in my head as well. It's like, what are the uh standards that we can ascribe ourselves to and then having something that's inherently more wasteful than other things, right? And start to maneuver things from there.

Andrew 28:32

Let's go back to the brands. Like you like samurai, you like sugar cane, those are Japanese companies making you know very, very specialized products. What about more wider appealing brands or less or more affordable brands? Is there any that you like?

Landon 28:47

Yeah, of course. Um or admire. I do I admire uh, you know, Andrew, that is so hard. I'm like, who are my co-side? But I mean, I love my my Solomons. I love when I was playing soccer a lot. I think that Adidas was my favorite when it comes to this balance. I think Adidas does a great job of balancing in their clothing. Like they have a way of presenting things that are ubiquitous, yet specialized. And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head that I love people who can specialize in certain things. And I think that you were talking about that earlier. I think that's what I miss a lot from brands. I love Denim Tears. Um, that's a New York-based brand, Tremaine Emery. Um, what other brands do I enjoy? I mean, I always love Levi's. I always love Levi's. I think Levi's is one of the most important brands ever created, you know.

Andrew 29:45

I've pretty biased, but your friends and the people you hang with, what do they like in fashion? Where do they shop and where do they go?

Landon 29:54

I feel like a lot of my friends, um, I'm friends with a lot of vintage people. So a lot of people kind of uh go to their vintage person. I think a lot, especially coming from Chicago. There's so many different shops to be at, and there's so many people that you can go to, like they have studios and random parts of the city. So I think a lot of people go to those people for clothing first. And then I think a lot of my friends shop online, shop Essence. I think Essence is a big thing for a lot of people around my age. Um, at least a lot of my friends still shop it, and then they'll go to their boutiques. I think they still have their boutiques that they go to, like the specific ones, right? I think a lot of people that I am around, they like to shop within their realm, you know. So, like you were talking like that old school way, it's like you go into Notre in Chicago and you know the people and they got the steps and the brick and the the layout, and um, they host talks, you know, it just feels like you're part of a community. And I think that's a lot of my background from my age that that people kind of gravitate towards. Um, so yeah, boutiques, online shops. I've probably people wouldn't tell me if they shopped at Amazon because I I would shame them. So I my friends shop on Amazon, they don't tell me.

Andrew 31:10

Where do you see business like in the industry 10 years from now? Do you think there'll be more stores, more online, more vintage or used clothes? Where do you see the trend going in the next 10 years?

Landon 31:23

You know, my biggest fear is like what's gonna happen to the vintage. I think we'll continually add more into the vintage lexicon, of course, because time moves forward or on or what have you. But I think that's my biggest question. So I wonder where people are going to uh shop more at, because I'm wondering, I feel like sometimes there's a finite thread to how people can shop now, because I think people shop so much more at night now than they used to. At night. Mm-hmm. At night, at like 2 a.m. I think um, so I think a line has really uh, you know, I I I hear a lot in the ether of people saying, like, yeah, I made this 2 a.m. TikTok purchase. And I'm and I'm that's unfathomable for me because I'm not on TikTok, and I wouldn't make an in-app purchase from a uh not store app, you know. So, but but yeah, I hear that a lot. So I I I think there's just gonna be more ways to shop. I mean, Google, I don't know if you've noticed, you know, over the past couple years, over the past 10 years specifically, like when you search certain things, like the first thing that comes up is uh a shopping link. And that wasn't the case always, right? Um, and I think that that's what we'll see more now is that uh you'll watch a you'll be at the movies and you can scan a QR code to shop while you're waiting for the movie to play. Yeah.

Andrew 32:48

What's the reason to buy buy something new? If you're so into old clothes, what's the reason to actually buy something new? Because well, with denim, you can make your own fates.

Landon 33:01

Yeah, yeah. I was like, that's the reason why I buy new jeans. But um, I think also to imbue it with new energy, and I think that there's still artists who are making great clothing, you know, great designers making great clothing. And I think there's a uh reason to uh support an artist who's making something that you enjoy. Um, I think though those are the that's the forefront of business to me because they're kind of like again going into this circle of things, where it's like everything is like you what you were saying earlier, everything is so homogenized in the way that it shops. Now the forefront is again back on the independent people, right?

Andrew 33:38

This is what I'm feeling is that I'm feeling that you know, all these big companies, they have great numbers and all this, but no one really likes it. You know? Okay, your numbers are up 10% or 5% or whatever your number is, but actually the garment that you take home is no different than the one you bought from uh two years ago.

Landon 33:57

It hasn't changed. Okay, if we're worse at this point because they're trying to increase profit, yeah.

Andrew 34:04

Then you're better off to find something original that represents where you stand or who you are.

Landon 34:09

Exactly. And I think that's I feel like people are going towards that in a certain sense. I feel like we haven't had that mass up people, but you know, like I see ads when people, it's this uh store called back market. You can buy old tech items, and it's like the ads says downgrade now. So I think that there's a way that people are going to go kind of back in the past to grab certain things, you know. I think that's where people, but we're gonna get to a point where everybody will be like, no, this is we're done with this, you know, and then we're gonna push forward with whatever that looks like in the future, whether that be an independent designer on the internet, uh meta glasses.

Andrew 34:51

Well, I hope something different comes up because our industry needs that. So let me summarize all that we've talked about. And correct me if there's anything that I say that you don't agree with. What I'm getting from today is that you believe that new fibers are needed desperately in our business. Yes. And they should be mixed with recycled fibers. Yes. Whether it should be a bare minimum. Recycled polyesters or recycled cotton, whatever, but but new fibers with recycling. And you believe a lot in upcycling. Correct. And changing independent garments and making special products.

Landon 35:27

Mm-hmm. I I think you said something earlier too. My personal belief, I have five pillars that I go back to when I get lost. Tell me your five pillars. Basically, one is about harmony, two is about finding I I won't make something more, I won't make something else unless it's better than it was before, right? And that could be accessibility, that could be um integrity, things of that nature. Um, and then my the third thing is like it's a new item when it has a new identity. You know, I mean I'm that's another thing that I always think about when I create when I'm creating. Just like this item is finished when it's been recognized differently, right? And then we could bring it back into the public after that. And then each garment is as finite as it is valuable, and value cannot be added if it can't be used, you know. So it's like if I can't rework this part of this garment into itself or add something onto it to make it better, then I'm not I'm decreasing this value. Okay. You know, I think it's using think think about things as a finite, because in upcycling, you don't have yards of fabric, you have maybe two yards of a garment. And so it's how do we make that work? Because um uh that's something I was been talking about lately with different people, is that, you know, I think that is a a way of designing that is going to be more apparent as we go into the future. Because now we're still in this kind of like older, you know, optimization kind of things. It's like using the clothes 3D and um using these different uh apps to like pattern make and create clothing, and then so it reduces how much waste we create, the pattern's more accurate or what have you. Right. I think a cover all five. It's um using the hardware over again, a new item has a new identity, uh, has to be more accessible than its original state, harmony and uniformity, and then each garment is uh as finite as it is valuable.

Andrew 37:33

Landon, it's really nice to meet you. I'm really glad to have a chance to talk to you. And thank you for doing this.

Landon 37:41

Thank you for having me, Andrew. It's been a pleasure to talk with you.

Andrew 37:43

And anybody who wants to get a hold of Landon, you just write me and I'll introduce you to Landon. There you go. There you go.