Ep. 78: Japanese Denim—Past and Future with Bobby Tohma

Japanese denim is admired for its quality, craftsmanship, and the extraordinary care behind how it is made.

In Episode 78, Andrew sits down with Bobby Tohma, owner of Amhot Holdings and Idea Blue in Osaka. Andrew has known Bobby for more than four decades, and Bobby has spent nearly his entire career in the Japanese textile business, working across fabric export, trading, mills, weavers, and denim.

The conversation begins with Japan at its economic peak, when textiles were everywhere, exports were booming, and the country produced almost everything. Andrew and Bobby look back at the role of trading companies, the way money and production moved through the system, and how that structure helped build one of the most important textile industries in the world.

From there, they get into Japanese denim itself. Rope dyeing, shuttle looms, small production runs, and the network of spinners, dyers, weavers, and finishing mills that still gives the industry its character. They also talk about why some customers are already booking fabric years in advance, and why Japanese mills are often focused less on efficiency than on the product itself.

They also discuss what has changed. Fewer factories. Fewer engineers. Fewer young people entering the business. Uniqlo’s impact on the domestic market. The growing interest from European luxury groups. And the slow movement toward greater sustainability and transparency.

Andrew is direct about where he stands. He still wears Japanese denim because, in his words, it is better. Bobby offers a comparison that captures the future he hopes for: denim from Japan becoming like watches from Switzerland, something people recognize, value, and are willing to pay more for.

It’s also a conversation about what comes next. How does Japanese denim protect the knowledge, labor, and quality that made it special while finding a way to keep moving forward?

Thank you to our sponsor Inside Denim.

Bobby Tohma
Owner, Amhot Holdings LLC
Amhot Holdings, LinkedIn

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Transcript

Andrew 0:00

If you value these conversations, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more than you think. One of the best parts of getting old is that you live to see a ton of cool things, and you get to talk about them to people like you, for example, who might not have any idea of what happened in the past. Take Japan, for example. Today's guest is the owner of Amhot International in Osaka, Mr. Bobby Tohma, who I've known for 44 years. He's my age and still at it selling textiles, of which Denim is a part of his world. Before we get to Bobby, I want to talk history. Mid-1980s. The Japanese yen is bobbing between 220 to 250 yen to the US dollar. Japanese exports are booming. The domestic industry is flying. Cars are selling like crazy in the United States, and they are the kings of electronics and dominant in textiles for both domestic production and factories that they set up in other countries. Japan was so hot economically their companies started to buy U.S. icons. For example, 1989, Rockefeller Center, that's the year Mitsubishi Estate acquired a controlling interest. Columbia Pictures was purchased by Sony in 1989 for about $3.4 billion. Pebble Beach Golf Links, bought by a Japanese-led group in 1990. MCA, acquired by Matsushita Electric, now Panasonic, in 1990. To Americans at the time, it felt like Japan was unstoppable. Their stock market accounted for roughly 40% of the global stock market value. I'll say that again. Stock market at that time in Japan was valued at 40% of the global stock market value. The land under the Tokyo Imperial Palace was famously said to be worth more than all the real estate in California. I mean, it's an exaggeration, but people repeated that story constantly. You get the idea. And then, of course, there's a collapse. The Japanese asset bubble burst around 1990 and 1991. Currency. The yen dropped from 230 to 125. Well, needless to say, that made prices skyrocket. The benchmark Nikkei 225 fell from 39,000 at the end of 1989 to 15,000 a few years later. So what does Japan do when all their prices jump way higher? Well, they recede. And in textiles, the industry started to go down the stairs towards irrelevancy. Cotton textile mills one by one closed. The ones that were open were a shadow of their former selves. So in talking to Bobby today, we'll discuss the current state of the Japanese textile industry in its historical context, I've just explained. And I hope you like it. Oh, and one last thing. Well, we will get into this in the interview. I still love my favorite are carabo fabrics, denim fabrics. That's all I wear, and I do it proudly. The color never fades, and the cotton is so strong it literally never breaks. It literally never breaks. While mine are sewn in the United States, the quality is incredible. And an unwashed jean made from Japanese denim is the most sustainable gene on earth. You can wear it for years and years and years. Bobby, welcome to our podcast. And I don't know how to thank you, but thanks a lot for doing this. Thank you for letting me come. So let's start from the beginning. How did you get into textiles when you were young? What did you do in school? Um, where did you go to school? And how did you get to your I guess you, Yagi Tsucho, what was your first job?

Bobby Tohma 3:32

Yeah. Actually, I went to I I've been, you know, only living in Osaka till the end of my, you know, uh studying.

Andrew 3:42

Were you born in Osaka?

Bobby Tohma 3:44

Yeah, I was born in Osaka. I see. Yeah, and uh local, you know, schools and then went to university. It's also Osaka City University, and I learned economics. And four years uh I graduated in 1977, I remember. And uh while I was looking for a job, I was really uh bad students there in the in a university.

Andrew 4:14

A lot of textile people were bad students.

Bobby Tohma 4:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh finding a job was quite difficult, but uh actually I have an uncle whose friend was uh director, one of the directors of uh Yagitsu show. And uh honestly, I the uh semiconductor, one of the semiconductor companies, the big one, confirmed me to hire. But after that, actually, since you know I visited the Yagitsu show, they uh they contacted me through my uncle, and uh my uncle told me that they were very happy to hire you. So I couldn't, you know, defuse it. So that's how you got. I so anyway, I went to Yagitsu show in 1977. And in 1978, they sent me to a kind of school run by uh Miti at the foot of Mount Fuji, whereas we study English and uh international trading things.

Andrew 5:22

By the way, for those listening, Miti is the Ministry of Industry from Japan, which plays a big role in business. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Bobby Tohma 5:31

So there I learned uh actually uh uh yeah, uh I learned English, practical English to talk. There were many following teachers. So like uh I I had to speak uh English all the time, basically, yeah, for three months. There are many, many people from uh big companies like banks and uh many companies who are to send for overseas. So t to like a kind of instant, you know, education of the languages also.

Andrew 6:10

Pretty cool that the country organizes that.

Bobby Tohma 6:13

Yeah, uh I don't know. It's still I I don't think it's still there anymore, but uh they're more like big companies, they have system within the company. So Right, right, right. And then you started what did you do at Yagitsu Show? What was your job? Actually, but they placed me to fabric export, or one of the fabric export sections. So I started uh like immediately at uh Yagitsu show I started uh you know fabric export from Japan. First uh I was uh shipping upholstery fabrics to Australia. At that time there are like a kind of lot of like uh uh upholstery, like uh pile fabrics. It's still there, like in the south of Osaka, Wakayama area. And like uh a vervet for you know, verbet to uh like uh jackar fabrics. So it was interesting.

Andrew 7:15

Japan produced everything, and and in those days, there was textile absolutely everywhere in Japan. And um, it was uh the glory days of textiles.

Bobby Tohma 7:25

That's right, yeah. 19 yeah, 60s, 70, 70s, uh maybe 80s, yeah.

Andrew 7:34

So you worked for a trading company, and for those that don't understand what's a trading company, a trading company basically buys and sells the fabric on behalf of the buyers, right? And also on the supplier side.

Bobby Tohma 7:44

Yes, on behalf of bayas or on behalf of supplyas.

Andrew 7:48

It's a very common business model in Japan going back a very, very long time, right?

Bobby Tohma 7:53

Yeah. And it's still the giants, like a Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Itochu, Marbeni, Sojitsu. Still the uh giants. I'm sending like uh Indian public to like a Sojitsu Hashong, but Sojitsu at the same time building uh freight train in India. Freight train.

Andrew 8:18

They're like $30 billion organizations, these trading companies. That's right. That's right. They do everything. They lend money, they build canals, and they trade and they make guns. Okay. So that's that's not really regular in the other countries in the world that a trading company like that exists. That's right. That's right.

Bobby Tohma 8:36

For the trading company is uh it's a unique, maybe a unique system, but uh you know bottom line, the necessity was because of the language. Not everyone talk, you know, still, uh not everyone took English. Historically, if I'm correct, it also had a lot to do with money. Yes. Like finances also, yeah.

Andrew 9:02

So like they would give the money for the people to buy the cotton, and then they would give the money for the dyers to buy it, and so on and so on. So they like lent everybody everything and then they bought it back. That's right.

Bobby Tohma 9:14

That's right. A lot of layers. Yeah. Uh not a lot, but actually the it's a kind of like the uh you know of the business, basically. Right. From in in uh you know many different you know segments and uh ideas. And when did you start to get involved in the denim industry? The denim industry is actually I was the I left the Agi Tsu Show 1993, basically by your suggestion. Wonderful. And uh then you connected me to the company called Bantex. And that's your start. That's my that's my start of the you know denim, actually. Uh prior to that, uh in the Yagitsu show I tried to develop some like uh indigo products. But you know, not really at denim Sako.

Andrew 10:14

When I was at Yagi Tsu Show with you or with Rocky or with uh Alan, I don't remember who was with me, but we tried to go to Kurabo, we tried to go to Kaihara to work with them, and they always told us to no thank you.

Bobby Tohma 10:29

But probably, yeah, that's right. Maybe maybe Mr Yastomo, maybe. Maybe a long time ago. Yeah. I I don't think I I took you to Kurabo or Kaihara at the time, but uh maybe Matsura or somebody. Yeah.

Andrew 10:45

And what do you do today? What's your business with denim today? Because you're quite famous for it.

Bobby Tohma 10:50

Actually, we uh also I I run a company called ID Blue as a trading company which represents uh many small, like uh relatively small weavers and mills. And uh selling more um actually major part of the business has been the self vegetarian. Right. And uh but actually recently it's booming and uh delivery jumping up. We are like uh booking service and we've been for 2028 delivery.

Andrew 11:27

Wait a second. You're booking orders for 2028. Yeah. Yeah. So that's two and a half years ahead. That's right. That's correct. Um one and a half. When you say you're booking, how people giving you the actual product name, or are they just telling you they want production?

Bobby Tohma 11:45

Yeah, they they uh mostly, most of the case, they keep on buying same public.

Andrew 11:51

So they know now what they're gonna need in 2028. Yeah. So so much for quick delivery. Nobody cares when it comes to Japanese denim. All right, I want to I want to drill down a little bit, if you don't mind. Um the small weavers, you call them weavers. But the companies that you represent are maybe different to what the normal denim mills are, because one of them might be a spinning company, one might be a dying company, one might be um actual have looms, another one might not have any looms. So, what is the status of most of your suppliers?

Bobby Tohma 12:26

I'd say the major part is uh weavers kind of like have a leadership. Weavers buy yarn and send it to like a dying mill.

Andrew 12:38

So the weavers buy the yarn and they send it to the dyeing mill. Yeah. And then the dyeing mill dyes the yarn, gives it back to the weavers. Yeah. The weavers weave it, and then they finish it where?

Bobby Tohma 12:50

Finish in a finishing mill. Some mill has their own finishing, you know, but uh actually in many cases they're uh uh one or two major finishing factories in the area.

Andrew 13:01

And how many dyeing factories are used today? One big one for loped dyeing.

Bobby Tohma 13:06

And one That's Sakamoto, right? That's Sakamoto.

Speaker 13:10

Yes.

Bobby Tohma 13:10

And uh cheese, you know, package dyeing guy is Hiroshima Orisen, is uh in in Fukuyama. And the some some you know mills have their own um loped machine. Um of course, you know, Kaihala is basically vertical. Yes. Vertical. And also Kuroki is somewhat vertical. Yes. And uh who else is vertical? Um has some, like uh they have uh hang dying and uh they have uh yeah, I think one set of lobed dying. And also Shoa in Kojima is also vertical. Vertical? They have a rope dying machine? Shoa has a uh lobed dying machine. Uh it's it's a kind of you know small, like a tiny lobe dying machine. But that's good for like a Japanese market. It's quite, you know. Uh business volume for Japanese, if we are talking looking at the Japanese market, like uh basic, you know, denim production minimum for like uh like a big guy is uh like 10,000 meters or 5,000 meters, which is quite, you know, which is too big in many cases for Japanese so-called uh brands. And uh in case of like a small low dyeing, like what Showa has, is they are offering uh, I think even 1,000 meter for low dye.

Andrew 14:40

And then you pay for it for sure. For sure. Yeah, yeah. Not free. Shoa for the fo for my listeners, Shoah had um samples of 100% silk indigo denim, they had 100% wool, they had so many different kinds of fibers and stuff. It's an amazing collection of products.

Bobby Tohma 15:00

Yeah, yes. They also have uh service rooms, but uh sold out probably same 12 to 18 months sold out.

Andrew 15:11

So let's talk about dying in Japan. Yeah. So the dying in Japan is considered by universally as amazing. Okay. But dying is like, you know, making a smoothie. I mean, there's a formula, the indigo is the indigo, the machine is the machine, the air is the air, the water is the water. What do you think is the is is going on? Why has Japan got that reputation?

Bobby Tohma 15:37

Uh because probably we have a history of uh indigo. We used to have uh in Tokushima, Shikoku Island, they do natural indigo dying by hand, like a kind of a hand dying on uh like a on a big large dying pot. And uh at uh not only in Tukushima but also north of Tokyo, there's an area who does the natural indigo production. So uh Japan is not being, you know, the other geographically the small island. So it's uh all the areas exchanges like uh the you know, they send yans from Niigata to Hiroshima or something like that. And so Niigata area weavers also is using a lot of like uh indigo dyeing, yand dye from uh Hiroshima, which is like uh maybe 1000 kilometer but uh they are sending yan back and forth and uh doing a production.

Andrew 16:49

Okay, but people still think, like I do, okay. And I can tell the listeners, I have tried to make colors that we did in Japan in other places, and it never comes out the same way. What is it that the Japanese dying process? And we're talking about Kaihara or we're talking about Sakamoto's, not so many people. What is it that they do so exceptionally well that is just special? Is it the speed that they go, the height of the oxidization? What do you think is the major advantage that a consumer gets when they buy Japanese denim?

Bobby Tohma 17:22

Hmm. Uh I'm not sure. I'm not that technically good at uh indigo dyeing, but uh as far as I, you know, they do for instance Sakamoto doing uh rope tying, uh everything basically lobe tie. Yeah. And uh they do like a kind of like they changes pure buses, you know, like everybody else doing, like salpha bottom or indigo top or salpha top or whatever. Sometimes they do mix pure indigo, naturally indigo.

Andrew 17:59

Yes.

Bobby Tohma 17:59

Like uh if they have eight bus, you know, change it to indigo or something. Naturally indigo.

Andrew 18:06

Seems to me that they go patiently and they go very high, and the color seems to be inside the yarn in a different way than other places, which makes it very magical.

Bobby Tohma 18:16

That's like I don't know. To me, it looks like uh basically the machine, rope time machine is more or less, you know, big or small, but uh system is the same. Yes. And the height. Hmm. Height is uh important for the oxidation, but uh in terms of uh height, you know, I see you know bigger and higher rope time machine, you know, in the other countries too. Oh, you do? Hmm.

Andrew 18:46

Other countries like India or like uh Do you think their color goes on as well as in Japan?

Bobby Tohma 18:53

I think some yeah, some mules I know is making it the c in terms of the color, they are producing good colors too, some of the mules. And uh and also the slowness. You know, if theyans dying, you know, uh fast or speed of the matters, probably.

Andrew 19:17

Yeah, my impression was Japan was also very patiently dying slow. The goal was not output, the goal was the color. To make it that's right.

Bobby Tohma 19:27

Yeah, probably. I think that's yeah, not uh looking just uh efficiency, but uh product. I think we can say for sure they're not efficient. I don't think that's on anyone's uh list. Every step like a weaving as well.

Andrew 19:46

Yeah, yes. This episode of the Jeans Land Podcast is brought to you by Inside Denim, the global resource for everything denim, from sustainability insights to fabric innovation and brand stories shaping the future of the genes industry. Inside Denim keeps you informed and inspired. So stay ahead of what's next in denim at inside denim.com. You can also visit genesland.co and sign up for our biweekly newsletter. It gives you access to our full archive along with the development shifts and stories shaping the denim supply chain in real time. Follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram to stay connected between episodes. Okay, let's talk about looms for a second. In the last 10 years, were there more salvage looms in Japan or it's the same number always?

Bobby Tohma 20:33

Rastea is probably more almost the same numbers. If we, you know, we are if we count the factory closed, it's maybe the number of the looms went down.

Andrew 20:44

When the factories closed, did people buy them or they just let they let the machines go?

Bobby Tohma 20:49

Not instantly. You know, there are still available looms as far as I know. Uh not many, like uh, you know, 20 here, five there, or something like that.

Andrew 21:02

So when if whatever the number is, it doesn't matter what the number is, say there's X number of looms operating today. Yeah. They have commitments from the customers for the next three years. Yeah. Do they take that as a sign to invest and buy more looms or to make more?

Bobby Tohma 21:18

They are starting, they are starting to looking. Really? Yeah, but still, you know, within Japan, maybe it's like uh I cannot imagine hundred rooms are available. Uh even like a second hand. Right. I had like uh maybe 20, 30, it's there. Maybe other 10, 20, it's that's it. Yeah, that's that's so far that's it. Because you know, Toyota, you know, is not producing new shuttle rooms anymore. So I see. Yeah, if uh if someone could invest under maybe uh in order To new aca actually uh reproduce like a last w version of the shuttle room like uh G9 or G ten. That would be changing as maybe changing because they Toota need probably a hundred at least, you know, like a hundred machines to as a minimum production.

Andrew 22:21

And the Japanese would never buy looms that are produced in other countries? Like if there were looms salvage looms? I don't know. That's an interesting question. Like the one from Kong, right? Or you know white oak. Well those, I'm not talking about those, but I'm talking about, for instance, I guess the loom companies are producing new brand new salvage looms. And so lots of people have entered the salvage business all over the world. They're buying new looms. I guess the Japanese companies wouldn't buy those.

Bobby Tohma 22:50

That's possible, maybe you know some trading company can support and do other new projects. But the problem there is engineer.

Andrew 23:01

So let's talk about people. Yeah. So when you and I started in the business there was a lot of people in textiles. That's right. A lot of engineers a lot of marketing people a lot of salespeople a lot of secretaries and everything. There was like tons of people. It's a huge huge business. People are all gone, right?

Bobby Tohma 23:19

People are gone. And uh people there are like you know younger ones are 60s and older ones it's like a 80s age.

Andrew 23:28

So like 20 year olds don't really go in the fabric business anymore producing.

Bobby Tohma 23:33

No I can uh yeah I don't hear about that. It's not it's actually there are young people going into the industries but in like a laundry like a uh sewing or those areas. I see. Your suppliers are not necessarily young people. Not necessarily not many young people if I see young people in the factories they are like a son or grandson of the owner.

Andrew 24:03

Right right right in Japan? Yeah they are still I think one single largest uh and I I heard that they also produced a factory in or made a factory in Thailand is that true?

Bobby Tohma 24:16

Thailand yes yes it's a bit basically it's for Uniclo wow anybody else making factories anywhere in Denim outside of Japan uh Kulabo is not not anymore and Shimbo it's not anymore I don't think uh any anybody else okay we talk about brands do you mind if we talk about brands yeah so Japanese brands so many of them are so so nice which domestic brands are doing well in Japan actually you know all those like uh vintage brands yeah vintage replica brand the concept brands basically doing uh good in Japan because of inbound so there's one store in Reno called Hinoya who sells jeans most and uh but you know probably 90% of the customers I I when I go to the store 90% of customers other than me it's most most cases are foreigners. Foreign Yeah many people come from Europe and the your uh US or something like that.

Andrew 25:40

So the Japanese brands biggest or not biggest but a big portion of their business is foreigners actually at a little level uh I can say wow and does the big department stores like Daimaru and those people carry those brands?

Bobby Tohma 25:55

I think some some yes some like uh yeah there's uh like a Takashimaya is uh having uh you know events for jeans uh like once or twice a year and uh other stores I don't visit department store lately so I'm not sure but uh apparently the demands can you tell the story a little bit about pre-UNICLO what was the market like for brands before Uniclo and postUniclo because Uniclo had quite an impact on many brands right that's right yeah unikuro brought down the market price a lot like uh in the before Unikuro the like uh jeans at least started like uh the pair of jeans started like 8007 8000 yeah correct when I first went to Japan they were 7000 yeah 6900 7900 yeah but unikuro made it like uh I think at the beginning was 1980 like a two less than two thirds so then yeah so it's uh um you know change the market totally and many first you know the many retail competitors like uh right on or you know Jeans made or those those you know stores having a problem and then of course you know apparel like uh you know Edwin and uh many other apparatus uh the market has been taken up by Unico and GU.

Andrew 27:36

And now is there still an Edwin?

Bobby Tohma 27:38

Yeah the Edwin is Edwin now is uh and uh I took to Umbrella about that they are doing good. I think they're doing okay I think and brands like Denim or Big John are they still around Big John yeah Big John or Betty Smith they are good. So it's uh they are coming back after probably 20 years by 20 years suffer suffering from Unicolo but uh now it's uh changing uh because of the kind of like an inflation going on you know third year you know the everybody says you know third years Japan is under session deflation deflation economy yeah deflation economy so everybody could only wish to buy cheap you know cheap and cheap and cheap so unicrow has been good but now you know the trend that trend changed to kind of like inflation which means like people's income is kind of like uh going growing and uh uh actually Japanese government is encouraging companies to grow the payrolls and uh so kind of you know started have uh some hope maybe like next year income may be bigger than this year. So during these 30 years Japanese cannot expect uh growth they have to worry about uh how to protect the current income not to you know uh so n worry about next year and that in under that kind of like a mood they they don't want to spend money for like uh more expensive jeans so everybody got to Uniclop well Uniclo was what did something which the market needed actually because as the deflation came people had less and less disposable income so they were dying for something cheap and nice.

Andrew 29:35

That's right. And Uniclo do a really nice job they use Japanese fabrics they just don't make them in Japan.

Bobby Tohma 29:42

That's right that's right before Uniclo there was uh probably production of jeans in with in Japan made in Japan jeans like uh 80 million PS but uh now I'm I'm not sure I doubt it's even like a 10 million PS well United States produces something like I don't know someone will send me an email and correct me but two million three million one million so that's the United States which is what triple the size of Japan or double no this is a big issue everywhere yeah how is the business for the Japanese denim mills in the luxury market in Europe in Italy and France I think the male who is doing most in a good way is Kroki. Yes Kroki is appointed as material of art from uh LBMH but actually LBMH and also carrying plants are looking at more watching more for Japan and that's a good thing not only denim but also for the other product as well yes they come to audit often but uh uh you know other than that you know the the business coming let's talk a little bit about sustainability so everybody sold out for three years so what's obviously that would mean that there's no sustainable change coming in the next three years because they don't know what it is and they haven't included in the price.

Andrew 31:17

So what is is there any sustainability in the Japanese denim industry?

Bobby Tohma 31:22

Actually it comes from the spinners. The spinners so yeah actually they're you know still they're spinning companies and who does uh like a unique yarns they produce is spinning companies yes and um spinners are the first ones to uh you know uh face for this because you know without yarn we cannot do any anything actually big you know so it's start from the spinners import like uh fibers organic cottons then they spin using uh organic cottons then they import like uh organic cotton from uh Turkey or from uh India or from uh major ports us so they first you know they started spinning company and they already you know started selling organic cotton yeah for a few years already maybe 10 and then it goes to like uh for instance uh like I got GOTS that's that kind of certificate what to do it's you know in Japan it's basically not vertical except uh a few bigger mills right so it has to be like uh go through the audit at every step no I understand but I was thinking more in the factory floor like the dying factories so like for example does anyone ask you for any kind of um sustainable goals with water usage for example or any they are they are doing for instance Satamoto is already partly of the GOTS got certified yes and uh so are the finishing meal so like as some like a leaders like Kurabo are trying to make their supply chain sustainable well that's interesting because where's a lot of talk today in the industry outside of Japan about transparency.

Andrew 33:32

Japan historically has been the least transparent place on earth that's right that's right so how are you all dealing with that?

Bobby Tohma 33:38

I mean um is everybody now coughing up the names of all their suppliers basically the you know we the industry has been you know resisting whole resisting against that yes but uh but recently too many like uh requests coming many years so now now they started to move and uh like uh Kaihala Kuroki these like uh and claw leading companies uh try to move in that way so nice they need to make their supply chain up to them at least to make it you know sustainable so movement is now changing everybody now is in the you know industry is thinking it in a positive way so it changed from negative in the past major part to the positive nice hmm well I spent as you know 27 years in the denim world in Japan and I kind of know the industry and I and I really love the industry and even at my age I still only wear Japanese jeans.

Andrew 34:48

I said that earlier in my podcast and um that's not because of any kind of emotional reason that is strictly because it's better. So I do love the Japan industry and I hope that it I hope that it grows and that more people have a chance to buy jeans from Japan.

Bobby Tohma 35:05

Yeah yeah yeah Bobby how how do you see the future I mean what do you see is going to happen in the future I I don't think there's any direction to dramatically grow the industry industry doesn't you know won't dramatically grow but still like a kind of like uh watch from Switzerland yes that kind of things I I'm I'm my image is like a denim from Japan is a watch from Switzerland kind of like a certain level and people understand you know and accept the value of made in Japan and pay a little more so that you know the people in the industry in Japan they need to have a more higher status of the workers then workers or engineers would come back. Not in a as before but you know hoping to slowly to come back.

Andrew 36:05

We all need you know labor we just cannot exist without a flow of labor not just a good guy here and there we need a system that brings people on a regular basis to the industry.

Bobby Tohma 36:16

Ultimately the system is money if they pay high yes people comes young people would would come back well if they have orders for three years ahead they should be able to charge what they want and they should be able to hire people so yeah I think I I'm hoping so actually there are some some weavers I heard uh one of the weavers you know pay the extra bonus to workers and uh engineers and people so how much does a worker in Japan make in a factory? Worker how many mean no how much money do they earn how many yen do they earn I mean ah that's uh so far you know up to as far as I hear uh up to last year yeah it's kind of like uh border to like a minimum wage yeah which is what in Japan minimum wage per month is I think uh like uh two hundred thousand two hundred a little more I got like a f not even fifteen hundred US a month a month a month a month a month fifteen hundred dollars a month goodness gracious and the the the price won't allow them to hire more people or give them more money that's crazy that's right and how much does someone in China get someone in China must get at least $700 or $600 or $800. Yeah yeah it's a crazy world Bobby I am really grateful that you would do this please tell everybody again your company name my name is Bobby Tohma in the text trade industry in in Japan for like a f almost 50 years probably next I'll be I'll be 50 years next year. Yes and I run a company called Amhot Holdings LLC and also a company called Ideablu as a trading company of the fabric export from Japan.

Andrew 38:17

Okay. If anybody wants to get a hold of Bobby you just text me call me or whatever and I'll put you in touch with Bobby it would be my joy Bobby is a really great expert in textiles in Japan. Thank you. Thank you