.png)
The Rest of Us with Dana Tenille Weekes
The Rest of Us podcast explores rest as self-liberation for advocates and professionals who are losing themselves to the demands of work, loved ones, friends, strangers, and this dizzying world. The Rest of Us cultivates a community through honest reflections, conversations, and laughter for people willing to embrace rest differently.
The Rest of Us with Dana Tenille Weekes
Ep. 30: Calling All Leaders: Let Your Workplace Hero Identity Go with Guest Robb King
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
“When you take on being the hero, you’re willing to sacrifice relationships and social connections because your worth is tied to producing. There’s pride attached to it.” What resonates when you read this?
In this episode of The Rest of Us podcast, Robb King, Facilitator and Founder of Blume Theory, joins Dana in conversation to call us in (not out) about holding tight to the workplace hero identity.
Through laughter, honesty, and a framework, Dana and Robb examine the workplace hero identity through the lens of consumption. And in doing so, we talk about why there is magic in being ordinary and how to do L.E.S.S when you default to doing more.
Once you’ve listened to this episode, join Dana and Robb on Substack for Afterthoughts, the conversation after the (podcast) conversation. Be sure to subscribe on Substack (@therestofuspodcast) and have the conversation delivered to your inbox.
What You'll Settle Into
- What the workplace hero identity is and why so many of us take it on.
- Examining consumptive behaviors tied to workplace heroes and how such behaviors undermine leadership and a sustainable culture.
- What it means to do L.E.S.S.
- A framework that helps workplace heroes shift to doing L.E.S.S.
Key Quotes & Insights
- "There is magic in being ordinary." - Robb King
- "Consumption is not a good or bad thing. Consuming is doing things at a rate that is not sustainable. It is thinking about taking your and other people’s energy in order to complete unsustainable tasks." - Robb King
- "When you play the hero, you start to enter a space of loneliness because there is a willingness to sacrifice relationships and social connections because your identity is tied to it. This identity makes you think of yourself as the only." - Robb King
ROBB KING is a modern-day griot who helps people and organizations rethink the way they work. Through reflection, storytelling, and thoughtful questioning, he gently challenges outdated beliefs, uncovers unnecessary complexity, and helps leaders and teams discover simpler paths to impact. He creates space for clarity, joy, and sustainable growth, believing there is more than one way to succeed.
Through Blume Theory, he helps people explore what doing less at work looks like in practice. As a freelance consultant, he helps organizations find clarity in their work, simplify their operations, and build sustainable ways of working.
PODCAST TEAM
Host, Dana Tenille Weekes
Editor, Sagheer Muhammad
If this episode feels like a message or mirror, feel free to share it with someone who is looking to think about rest differently.
🎙️ Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.
⭐ Leave a 5-star review. (We are grateful for you doing so.)
Until next time, rest, my friends.
Connect with Us
Website:
Instagram:
Substack:
LinkedIn:
Welcome to the Rest of Us Podcast, where we explore rest as a form of liberation as a community. I am your host, Dana Tanil Weeks. Let me first start with a quotation. When you take on being the hero, you're willing to sacrifice relationships and social connections because your worth is tied to producing. There's pride attached to it. Let me say this quotation again. When you take on being the hero, you're willing to sacrifice relationships and social connections because your worth is tied to producing. There's pride attached to it. Did you almost press the brake while driving when you heard this? Or did you hold your breath for just a second? Did you feel a bit of tension or just resistance to the quotation that I shared with you? What resonates when this comes up for you when you heard it? In this episode, we're calling into question the workplace hero. And by we, I mean me and podcast guest Rob King, who is, my friends, one of my favorite people on this round earth. Rob and I will examine the identity of the workplace hero through the lens of consumption. And in doing so, we'll talk about why there is magic in being ordinary and also how to do less in places where you default to doing more. And when I mean less, Rob and I will share with you all the acronym for less. And also Rob will share and break down a framework for those workplace heroes who are just now ready to admit doing less is truly a superpower. If you're already curious about who this Rob King guy is personally attacking us for being workplace heroes, let me just share a little bit of background about you, about Rob. Rob King is a modern-day Griot who helps people and organizations rethink the way they work. Through reflection, storytelling, and thoughtful questioning, he gently challenges outdated beliefs, uncovers unnecessary complexity, and helps leaders and teams discover simpler paths to impact. Rob creates space for clarity and joy in a sustainable growth, believing there is more than one way to succeed. Rob is a facilitator and founder of Bloom Theory, that's B-L-U-M-E Theory. Through Bloom Theory, he helps people explore what doing less at work looks like in practice. As a freelance consultant, he helps organizations find clarity in their work, simplify their operations, and build sustainable ways of working. So, yes, my friends, Rob has joined us today, not to call you out, but to call you into our conversation about rethinking your identity as the workplace hero. My friend, it's time. It is so time, it is overdue to let it go. So if anything in this episode feels like a message or mirror, share it with someone who is looking to think about rest differently. Let's settle in. I mean, you are part of the community, but now we are talking together in an episode. So welcome. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_00I'm doing really, really well, and I'm super excited to have this conversation with you.
SPEAKER_01I am too. I've been looking forward to it all week. Well, since last week. So I'm really excited. So, you know, as I mentioned in the intro, today's conversation is focused on the workplace hero. But what's interesting about today's conversation is we're not necessarily lauding the workplace hero. We're actually exploring a little bit deeper. Why do people embrace the workplace hero identity? And your way of looking at this exploration is coming through the lens of consumption. So, Rob, I guess my first question to you will be this. We have a lot of people who go, look, I'm not trying to be the hero in the workplace. Or I work in a toxic environment. I need to protect the people who report to me. Or, you know, if I don't play the hero, things won't get done. So, Rob, tell me why are you wanting today to have people here that they should just be ordinary? What's so great about being ordinary? And actually, what do you mean by hero?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Dana, these are very, very good questions. Um, and I'm super excited that we're beginning to explore them because I think it's something that people don't really think about or consider a lot, right? I think in our culture, we assume that playing the hero is a good thing, right? No matter what aspect of American society you look at, the hero is always something that is pushed from our television shows, from like Marvel movies, right, to the heroes that we see in history. For example, Martin Luther King Jr. When we think about the civil rights movement, we think about heroes as these individuals who take on extremely large feats that feel superhuman.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um, and that is that is success, right, for us. And whether we realize it or not, we take that same hero mentality into our workplaces, right? And we assume that in order to be successful at the job, in order to show that we have value, that we have merit, that we have worth, that we have to play this hero role and take on tasks that really aren't sustainable or feasible, right? And that's where playing a hero becomes a problem, not just for the individual, but for the organization that they're a part of as well, right? It's no longer sustainable.
SPEAKER_01And I guess, Rob, my question would be before we even get to this definition of consumption, can you talk about why do you think people are consuming rather than giving in the hero role? So, you know, when we look at history, you mentioned for his, for example, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., we think about all the ways in which he gave and created impact. But what you're saying here is that no, no, no, maybe that that's an example of giving. What how why are we focused on consuming? Can you talk more about this consumption part?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So when you are in a position of playing the hero, trying to do superhuman things, right? You have to find ways to actually do it, which requires you to consume. So, first, um one, I like that we are defining definitions here because I think language is one thing, shared understanding is something totally different, right? And so for me, consumption as a word is not a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing. And I often look at words like that within the framing of a dual nature. So the light, the dark sides of what that word can be, how it can manifest. And I think we sometimes lean into the dark side of consumption, which is taking things at a rate or doing things at a rate, consuming things at a rate that is not sustainable. Right. And so when you are playing the hero in the workplace and trying to do things that require a whole lot of effort, a whole lot of energy, you have to consume things to do the work, to produce. Um, and you also have to consume for the purposes of maintaining stamina to produce, right? So when I talk about consuming to produce, it's thinking about taking your time, other people's time, your energy, other people's energy, other people's resources, your resources in order to complete these tasks that is really not sustainable over the long haul, right? And when we talk about consuming for the stamina to produce, it's consuming in the sense of what are those things I can go do? Like go get my nails done, go buy all these different tools, right, to help me feel calmer, feel more relaxed, right? When actually it might be better to just slow down and minimize.
SPEAKER_01So you talked about consuming to produce. So do you and you talked about how when we consume, it's actually a way of creating an environment around us that's unsustainable. Can you give an example? You don't have to give a case study, but can you give an example of a workplace hero that is on the consumptive side of what you said, the darker side of the that ecosystem rather than the lighter side? Can you give an example of that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So let's think about like a project lead who is working with um some direct reports and maybe a couple of stakeholders. That person may be managing a whole lot more than they can actually manage. And so, in order to manage that, they start consuming other people's time and resources and energy in a way to where they no longer view them as a person. They view them as a task to get something done, right? Which is not really sustainable for that relationship or the work for themselves. They may start consuming their own time as far as taking the work home and taking away that energy, that effort, that time to put into other parts or aspects of their lives, right? Um, and so consumption can start to show up in that way in practice.
SPEAKER_01So, what would you say, Rob, for someone who is starting to understand this concept that you're introducing to us? This idea that I've been a workplace hero, and I hear I'm thinking I've been giving all this time, but what I've really been doing is consuming, consuming of my time, the resources around me, my team's energy, things like that. Raw, for someone who's coming to this understanding that this could be me, what are some signals or indicators that I'm starting to have these types of consumptive behaviors? What should someone look for to say maybe that's me?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good question. The first couple of things that come to mind. One, do you have trouble issues delegating? If you struggle to delegate, there's a sign that you are playing hero. Another thing that I try to emphasize with people, because we live in a world where we compartmentalize our lives and we separate the job from the personal life from the volunteer efforts. I always tell people if you play hero in one part of your life, there's a good chance.
SPEAKER_01In it all.
SPEAKER_00All of them. All of it. Right? And I understand compartmentalizing to kind of get yourself through, but your body experiences it all as one. Right. And so I think another indicator for a person to know whether or not they're playing hero in the workplace is do I do this same type of work style approach in other aspects of my life?
SPEAKER_01Appreciate that. So I heard trouble delegating, I heard um this work style, certain work style approaches, it's like a one size fits all in all parts of your life. Would you say to a certain extent, that compartmentalizing could be a sign of consumption, or what are your thoughts about that? Um and let me give you a bit of background of why I asked that question. Um, I think compartmentalizing also has the two sides of the coin, essentially. Um, some people really think that they can play pretend in one part of their life. They call that compartmentalizing, but it's actually a behavior or habit that actually extends throughout all of their life. And so, in many ways, I see when you are not conscious of how you're showing up and you're calling it compartmentalizing as actually a consumptive type of action because you're probably taking people's energy, uh, others as well, to create this pretend scape of who you are, identity here.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, I think when you describe it like that, 100%, right? And it also makes me think about with consumption, there's always a relational aspect to it, right? You you can't really think about it in a solo space, it's always in relation to something else. And so I think another indicator that kind of tells you whether or not you are leaning into the more negative side of consumption is if you start to see some type of negative impact on the other side of that relationship. So, for example, if you're working with somebody and going into this consumptive behavior, right, and that other person is showing signs of negative impact, that may be an indicator.
SPEAKER_01So, uh, and I appreciate that as an indicator as well, because it takes, it makes you aware of how you are showing up among others. And so I guess my question following this, because I loved how you said that essentially consumption is in relation to something else, and you mark this as an identity, right? The workplace hero identity. I guess my question would be so when I talk about rest, you know, on this podcast platform, we have a specific, unique definition of rest. We talk about rest as being deeply connected to your agency. And I define agency as this self-acceptance of your humanity and your truth in the present moment. So when you ignore your humanity and truth in the present moment, you cannot exercise your agency. But when you're in touch with it, it does. How does this type of consumptive behavior change the way someone views themselves and want to show up? Because I think in many ways it's creating unrest, not just with others, but with internally within that person. So how do those behaviors actually create more unrest for that person?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um one of the big things I often see when we talk about what type of unrest it can create when you play that hero mentality is one you I do see people experience burnout all the time, consistently, right? I think another aspect of this that people don't talk about a lot. We, you know, we talk, have conversations around a loneliness epidemic that is happening. And I think when you play the hero, you actually are starting to enter a space of that loneliness, right? Where, again, if you don't know how to delegate, you're taking work home, you feel as though your value is very much connected to how much you can produce and what you can produce, how well you can produce it, there is a willingness to sacrifice relationships, social connections for the purpose of producing to prove that you have value because your identity is so closely tied to it, right? And not realizing that you are actually opening the door to experience loneliness.
SPEAKER_01I really appreciate that. Um, and so what I heard you say is essentially this kind of embrace of a behavior is one that actually allows you to think of yourself in the world as the only. Yes, the only one capable of such. But what that really is doing is actually isolating you in a way that it's creating a sense of lonely loneliness. But because you are producing and you're getting outcomes, you don't even recognize that you're detached, that your, how would I put it, your engagement in the world is solely associated with producing.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And I think, I think on one end, there's a lack of awareness, but also I think sometimes there is pride in playing that, right? So if we go back to that whole hero mentality or the the image of the hero that we have in American society, oftentimes when you think about that Marvel character, right? Or Batman or Wonder Woman or even Superman, who has to have this secret identity, he has to experience this life on his own, certain challenges that nobody else will ever experience. And we view that as he is doing the hard work, he is being a martyr, he is doing what has to be done. And that is valuable, that is meaningful, that is important.
SPEAKER_01Um, so I'm hoping that people are starting to understand. I'm just gonna give a pause for people to take in the conversation so far. One of the things I'm hearing as we we just take in everything is that oftentimes this consumptive behavior, this playing workplace hero identity forces you or requires you to ignore your humanity. It is it is an escape from really embracing yourself, your own humanity, and the truths you actually need to deal with. Because if you're the hero and you're getting incentivized and you're getting awarded, you don't have to deal with the stuff. That's really you.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah. It gives us an opportunity to kind of avoid the work of identifying ourselves or understanding ourselves outside of production.
SPEAKER_01So I'm gonna ask this question again. I started with it, and I'm gonna ask it again, Rob, now that we are farther along into this conversation. What's so great about being ordinary?
SPEAKER_00Uh, you know, Dana, this is a question I I wrestle with a lot, mainly because I think we have all been taught that being extraordinary is the path. Um, but in reality, I think there is magic in ordinary. Right? In the the ordinary, there's an ability to just accept what is, who you are, how you show up. There is clarity in understanding what your gifts, your talents are, and an ability to say, yes, this is something I can do that I will do, that I want to do, right? As opposed to putting yourself in lanes that you aren't really designed for. Yes, yes, and creating us not just for yourself, but for other people.
SPEAKER_01You know, I'm gonna pause there again, because Rob, I think you have encapsulated what a phrase I use often on this podcast, and so I feel compelled to bring it up, and that is you were imagined with such details that you were created. So only if you lived in your details, that is all the world is asking for. And I think you and I have been friends. We we will sit in a cafe and pontificate forever. But the the difference with our pontification is we try to manifest it into reality, right? So you try to do that. But one of the things we we talk about often is how other people, but also we check ourselves and each other about some people feel the need to live outside themselves to find themselves.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01And I what I'm hearing you say is that the workplace hero is really living outside yourself. And how do we reevaluate coming back into ourselves in this environment, including in the workplace? So I guess, Rob, one question that I have, I guess I should go back to the script that I have completely ignored this whole time. Um, so let me look and see where we are here. I guess one thing I would say here, Rob, is people will say, look, this is great. You and Dana sit in cafes and pontificate on this. I have real demands. Sometimes I have to show up in order as a different person in order to survive this. So How would you put this into practice? How can people start putting this into practice in a way where it it is something realistic, something that they can actually do for themselves in whatever workplace environment they are in?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So, you know, first uh I want to start with I always push people to do less, right? We live in a world where it's all about doing more. In order to achieve more, you have to do more. But I actually think it's the opposite. To achieve more, you have to do less. And when I say less, what I mean is let efforts stay simple, right? Let efforts stay simple, less. And when I state that, I like to acknowledge it with the understanding that when you start off doing less, you won't necessarily achieve more within the next six months or the next 12 months, right? Um however, what you can achieve over the long run is much more than if you were to than if you were to try to do a whole lot, right? And so I like to push people to do less. Now, to this question of what is it that I can actually do that is practical, that is realistic in my day-to-day life, right? I want to go back to that conversation, the part of our conversation around compartmentalizing. And I want to go there because I think it's important to first raise awareness before you try to commit action. Right. And so the goal right now is just to raise awareness, your own personal awareness. And to do that, going back to this compartmentalization, we often think about work as just the nine to five, but work is anything that you do where you are trying to accomplish a task, whether that is in your family, within a friend group, at church, some volunteer effort, right? It spans across everything. So what I like to push people to do first is one, sit down and identify all of the things that you do that is considered work, not just at your nine to fives, but in every facet of your life. Right? Sit down, do that within, you know, 30 minutes. Don't spend a whole lot of time. Again, we're taking it easy. Write down what comes to mind, right? And then over the span of a week, check to see if there's anything additional that you will add. And once you are clear about all the facets of work that exist, I then like people to identify what level of power they have in those different categories of life. Because now, to your point earlier, you may be in a work situation where, yes, you may not be able to leverage as much power to say, I want to do less, but you may have power in another category of life where you are working, where you can say, Yes, I will do less on this. And until you can position yourself within the workspace to say less, considering how you can say less in other areas of your life.
SPEAKER_01Can I um do you mind if I interrupt you there? I want to stop there because I I know some of our listeners. And um, so far this framework is excellent, but I know some of my some of the listeners in our community are gonna look at this and go, okay, so where do I have the power to say yes to doing less? And because some people function only in a producing mindset, they're gonna say, I don't have anywhere. I can say yes to less and let's be clear. Well, less is let efforts stay simple. Okay. So I'm gonna pause there. Sorry for pausing in your framework. And I want you, Rob, to talk about producing and how that can maybe warp or distort how we see ourselves navigating the world so that we can take off that producing lens and put on another lens to really honestly answer this part of the framework.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Thinking about that hero mindset and mentality, right? Where you have to accomplish feats that feel superhuman. A lot of times, when I'm watching folks who are working in that hero mentality, they will be giving uh given a request or a task to complete. And instead of doing the minimum, they do 200% more than what was required, right? They make the work more complicated than it needs to be. They put in more effort and energy than is required. So I like to give a personal example, right? I remember I had a client who asked me to facilitate a meeting and then produce um some takeaways, right? Takeaways could have been bullet points. I facilitate the meeting, I start doing the bullet point takeaways, but I'm like, you know what, it'd be better if it was like a two, three-page document. And I was like, you know what? I also need to add in these additional recommendations and suggestions, right? Yes, both have been there, done it. And then now my my wheels are spinning. I've spent eight hours trying to figure out what all I need to do when all I had to do was put in maybe four or five bullet points and sent it off. Because guess what? That client was only going to take a minute to read through and scan it.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate that example because I feel like you were personally attacking me at times, especially younger Dana, but she's gonna forgive you. Um but no, that's why I started. For those of you who have the video, you can see I just immediately started smiling. But for those of you on audio, you couldn't hear my smiling and my a bit of the laughter that I was trying to hold in because I identified with that so much. So, Rob, and again, I'll we'll go through and repeat where we are in the framework. Um, but before we do, could you give the listeners a definition? Maybe we've defined to a certain extent hero, we've defined consumptive behavior. Can you define for you what is producing so that people can maybe take vent language and see what works for them in their head?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, producing on the positive side, right? It is doing what is required to fulfill the purpose. Right? For me, it's doing what is required to fulfill the purpose. And I also want to add in what is required has to be within my capacity to do.
SPEAKER_01And and not capacity of your ideal, but your capacity in the present moment.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. Um and I think once you are clear about that, you can start to delineate between what what is it that I have to do versus what am I trying to do in order to prove something.
SPEAKER_01So let's now revisit the framework because I think that provided clarity for people for I may get the numbering wrong here, but first we talked about putting together a list to identify um things that we feel like we need to accomplish as well. That's the first. Feel free to clarify anything I'm sharing there. Then the second part of the framework, after you sit with that for about 30 minutes of writing a week, let it soak in. And after that, then you go to check to see if there's anything else you want to add to this particular list that you are creating. It is not a narrative, it is not a story, it is not chapters, right? Because we're doing less. Let efforts stay simple. So the second thing is to just check in with yourself because now you've been living so in actively observing this. So now add anything else to that list. Then we move to this is where we kind of explore, we kind of assess ourselves to say, where do we have the power to say yes to doing less, which is again, let efforts stay simple. And we talked about what producing can look like and how we take off that producing lens that may um distort our ability to actually point to things to say yes to. Yes. And so now people kind of have an understanding what you truly can say yes to. You may not want to, but you truly can say yes to. So that's where we are in the framework, Rob. I'm gonna have you continue to the next part.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And so it moves into that space of, like we said, identifying what we have the power to say yes about doing less to, right? And then taking small, very small baby steps to commit one thing that is less. Right. And so when I say very small baby steps, it may be instead of checking my emails five times a week, or five times a day rather, right? Maybe I only check it three times a day. Right? Or maybe I have seven to eight meetings on my calendar next week. Let me see if I actually need to do all of those meetings. And if not, can I cancel one or push it back? Or maybe can I take one meeting and decrease the amount of time it lasts? So it's very small things that we can identify that we can start to say, I think I can do less here, because it will help me accomplish the purpose, and then taking that small step to do it.
SPEAKER_01Rob, can I ask you a question about these baby steps? Um, so one way is kind of looking at something and say, how can I immediately do less? Another thing, because you and I have talked so much about doing less. In fact, sometimes you just look at me, I'm like, I know, Rob, I need to do less. So I know what the eyes are saying. Um, so my question for you is sometimes I look at time differently. Sometimes I go, um, you and I both, again, we're in the cafe pontificating uh a lot, but we try to manifest what we pontificate. We try to live how we want the world to be. Okay. So um, so in this in the cafe, we have conversations about time, and both of us think many of the listeners may think Rob and I are woo-woo, but Rob and I both think time is a construct. And that sometimes this idea of 24 hours, seven days a week kind of time can work for a producing mindset, but it may not work for other mindsets as well. How can pop people maybe think about time differently in ways in which they can get to doing less? I know for uh many of the listeners who are lawyers, y'all are gonna probably pause on this and say, we done. I want you to just be open and curious to this. So, Rob, talk to me a little bit about how we can look at time differently to get to doing less.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. There, first, I'm gonna start with for me, there are two reasons for defining time. The first reason for defining time is for social purposes. So we need to define time so that we can meet with other people for social reasons, whatever that may be. The second component is an economic reason, right? That we need to define time for the purposes of production. And I think there is the form of production and economics that we kind of define time within right now, um, does it fully work for a lot of people? Right? I think, especially now that we live in an information knowledge economy where you can really produce anywhere, anytime, I like to push people to think about what is your natural cadence for how you not just produce, but create. Um and seeing if you can find ways to allow that natural cadence to come across in how you work. So instead of thinking about work as Monday through Friday, thinking about seasons based off of the project or the timeline that you have in front of you. Right. Um and I I will admit I don't necessarily believe that there is like one easy, simple framework of doing that. It is a bit of a trial and error process of trying to find that rhythm that really works for you.
SPEAKER_01Can I add something to that, Rob? Um and this is again for my folks out there that really identify as type A, which I always say is anxiety and abandonment and not agency. Um, but for the type A folks out there, um, you know what's interesting, you talked about, Rob, these two forms of time, looking at it from a social lens, but also looking at it from an economic lens. And what I actually find is when people embrace a type A, not agency kind of identity, but a type A kind of self-abandonment uh or anxiety, they usually are living all the time and producing time in that economic time where there is no boundary to time. Um, it's something personally that I went through. And in going through it, I had to think about my days of when I would do when I would have the work walk times to think and designate that. Otherwise, I say I can think all day. And so I would work all day. So, can you talk a little bit about again, for someone who has been conditioned to only live life in a producing sort of lens, how they can maybe think about time, their relationship to time or the relationship, yes, their relationship to time that's not helping them get to less.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um again, you know, going back to that awareness piece, right? That the first big component is always raising the the level of awareness. And I I really appreciate what you just lifted up about your own personal experience, right? Knowing that if I don't block off this time, I could do this all day, right? And I think that's actually a brilliant way for people to start is to say, hey, let me block off certain amounts of time for set things, and then commit to it. Not saying commit to it forever, commit to it for like two weeks. Okay. Make it simple, make it easy for yourself. And try to note how you feel as you go through that process, right? Do you feel anxious because you are not getting enough done? Do you find that, oh, like no matter how hard I work, this amount of work is like just too much, like indicators here. Um, and then use that as guidance for yourself about how you may need to shift things around.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate that. So uh I hope that everyone is just taking some goodies away from them, even if it's just one goodie, because hey, and it was worth it. Um, even just to pause and have the opportunity to rethink something is worth it. So, Rob, um, before we go into some of the closing questions, can you just give an overview of the framework once again uh so that people can re it can be reinforced in people's minds?
SPEAKER_00Yes. So what we're focused on is raising awareness before we commit the action, right? So first we want to sit down, take 30 minutes, no more than 30 minutes. Don't be concerned about your writing, just bullet down all of the things that you do that are considered work, not just in your job, but also in your family life, your volunteer stuff in your social settings. Once you have identified those things, then take the next week to kind of watch and observe and see if there's anything additional that you would add to that list, right? And then once you have identified that list, take the time to sit down and think about how much power do I have in each one of these work scenario situations to say yes to less. And once you are clear about that, choose one thing, one thing, one small thing. We don't need you to change the world. Choose one small thing and then try to change it.
SPEAKER_01And Rob, what would you say to someone to say, how do I know it's changed? How much time should I give myself? And I know you're gonna say it depends, but someone who's just already still in this mindset of I have to change it quickly, is it may not happen quickly. So talk about what does change look like? And also, what does change look like? But also what will you disrupt in order for the change to be achieved?
SPEAKER_00Yes, you know, you're right, because the pins is real, everybody is different, yes. Um I would say aim to give yourself 30 days, right? 30 days to enact uh that one small shift that you were making. And I want you to actually find a way to record your experience over those 30 days, right? You don't have to do it every day, but at least do it a couple of times throughout that practice training ground, right? And you can record that by writing down in a journal, by typing notes in your computer. I personally love voice notes, right? I get Rob's voice notes.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, oh, that's a voice note from Rob. Okay. Rob records notes.
SPEAKER_00I do. And I think there's no shade. There, it's all love. Yes, go ahead. Sorry. And I I think it's like it's super important to record that experience because it will allow you to kind of take an overview of what has happened, what has occurred, what was going on in your mind, what you were fearing. And it allows you to assess whether or not that change is actually happening in the way that you desire.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate that. So, Rob, before we end today's conversation, or rather end the conversation with the rest of us community, because you and I talk all the time. My question for you is we started out this conversation with this hero identity. We're ending it now with how to do less. And so, and less again, folks, is let efforts stay simple. So, I guess my question for you before I end with one tiny small question question for you is if I have been living the hero identity for so long, if my success has been tied to the hero identity, what are some things I need to be conscious of unlearning to come back to myself?
SPEAKER_00There are so many places that I could I could start with that. The you know, you you mentioned this earlier during our conversation is who am I, right, outside of producing. And I think the first is it may not be the first thing that you unlearn, but it is big a really big thing that you gotta get to is who am I and what is my value and worth outside of me producing something. Right? If I don't show up at this job and do the amazing feast that I typically do, who will I be? And is that enough to still live a meaningful, good life?
SPEAKER_01I love that. I love that. So, Rob, we're gonna close somewhat on that note. Um, before we go, I do want the listeners to hear about some of the space you are holding with Bloom Theory as it relates to these workshops and luncheons that you are doing virtually. Programs, can you talk to the listeners about what you are doing? Um, and where can they go to just learn a little bit more about the space you are holding for people who are trying to shed this hero identity?
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you for that. Every month, um, through my business blown theory, we bring together people virtually to have conversations about workplace culture and how we do less, right? Um and we explore topics from how do we manage relationships, right, in the workspace and how that can consume our time to even our conversation today around playing the hero in the workplace, right? Um, and so it's a space for people to come together, share their experience experiences, and build communal knowledge, right? I think that is super important for trying to shift things. It's not just having this one-off conversation with somebody, right? But it's having a conversation in community and knowing that there are other people out there who are trying to do the same thing that you are trying to do.
SPEAKER_01I love the space that you're holding. I think you talked about community. I think there are two key words there. One is consistency and the other is community. Consistency is making sure you're shifting something into a behavior and community is how you want to show up and how you want to show up for others. So um I appreciate Rob, our conversation today. Is there any last thing you want to share with our listeners, our communities, before we close?
SPEAKER_00Uh, you know, just say yes to less.
SPEAKER_01Just say yes to less, which is let efforts stay symbolical.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Perfect. Well, thank you, Rob. We enjoyed having you here today. And of course, you and I will keep pontificating together.
SPEAKER_00We will, we will. Thank you, Dane.
SPEAKER_01You're welcome. Well, my friends, we are at the end of this episode. If anything in this episode felt like a message or mirror, share it with someone who is looking to think about rest differently. If you want the conversation to continue with Rob and me, get Afterthoughts delivered to your inbox when you subscribe to the Rest of Us podcast on Substack. The Afterthoughts conversation is exclusively on Substack. And if you'd like to work with Rob, you can find him at BloomTheory.com. That is B-L-U-M-E Theory.com. And you can also find Rob on LinkedIn, Rob King, R-O-B-B King. Before we go, this is a gentle reminder to listen to the newest poetic interlude episodes. One poetic interlude features a poet Gori Aswafi reading Prayer from a Nonbeliever. The second poetic interlude episode features poet Omavi Shakur reading Signification of a Soul. Each poetic interlude holds space, including reflection prompts, to remind us that creative expression is a portal to rest as liberation. Until next time, rest, my friends. Thank you for listening to this episode and being a part of the rest of us community. My friends, let's build a community together. Here are some ways. Subscribe and rate the Rest of Us Podcast five stars or the top rating and leave a comment a good one. I'm grateful for you doing so. Follow us on Instagram at therestofus.podcast and join us on Substat to read afterthoughts, where guests and I will share our thoughts on select episodes. Or visit therestofuspodcast.com for information on every episode, including reflection exercises, background on our guests, and of course, the poetic interludes. You can also sign up for the podcast club and the rest of us email list to stay in the know about upcoming virtual and in person events. Until next time, rest, my friends.