S2 | EP 21: Exposure Becomes Currency & Conscience: ANTM Food For Thoughts

We trade party recaps and food festival finds for a deep dive into the ANTM docuseries, weighing representation, power, and what accountability should look like on and off camera. We end with three takeaways on exposure, inclusion, and the value of attention.

• balancing celebration with rest and refuel time
• South Beach Food & Wine highlights and why experiences matter
• DIY theater rental as a personal birthday idea
• Netflix doc context: ANTM’s origins and intent
• ratings pressure vs mission and who holds power
• winners’ careers, mentorship gaps and model agency dynamics
• brand control, celebrity aura and industry shifts
• harmful shoots, standards, and consumer responsibility
• legal lessons on ownership and protecting your work
• modern path to success through creator platforms
• final takeaways: exposure as currency, inclusion, attention value

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Let us know what you think in the comments after you watch these three episodes
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Transcript

Cold Open: Accountability On TV

SPEAKER_02 0:00

When I first when we first started this podcast, like today, I was like, you gotta give everybody grades, like tired of the lost, and that that that really just turned my whole perspective. Why didn't you go see um your your co-host? And why did you start treating your other co-hosts like they were less than you?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

When he was in the hospital, that really upset me so badly. You want to get money with me. You you knew me from when I was a teenager, but when the man was in the hospital, you sent flowers.

Welcome Back & Life Catch‑Up

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Hey guys, welcome back to another Elevators Podcast episode. I missed you guys. Hi, Crystal. Hey girl, hey, welcome. Hey girl. Yes. How you doing? Girl, I'm trying to catch my breath. Oh my goodness. I am getting off of the legs of just Valentine's Day, friends' birthdays. I have like so many birthdays that I've celebrated this month. I was hosting my friends this weekend. So it was just a lot of events and celebratory things. And I'm like trying to like catch catch my breath this weekend.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

I'm like, I love that though, because we need that. We need to take a break, hang out with a friend, regroup, find ourselves again. I feel like a lot of times when we're lost in a sauce of work, we forget who we are, we forget a little bit of our personality. So I love that February was filled with a bunch of moments like Galantine's Day, Valentine's Day, just like different opportunities for you to spend with your loved ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I love that. Because friends refuel you, right? And they're also like, I always say this. I'm like friends are soulmates too. I know we have like our significant others and like husbands and boyfriends and like girlfriends, and you know, but like friends really can just refuel like they do your energy and your vibe. And I just we it's necessary. It's I'm always all about it. Yeah. Um, what did you do this week? What did you do this weekend? And how was Valentine's Day for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:51

So, yeah, all the things. Valentine's Day was very chill. Love that. You know, I hate going out on Valentine's Day. Um, so we kind of hung out beforehand. Me and my men are so funny. Like, we won't do things on actual holidays, but like we'll do things leading up to it. I don't know why, but that's just how we are. Yeah. Um, so that was it's better too. Less crowded. Hello, less crowded. But no, I'm gonna actually tell you a funny story about our our anniversary, but I'll I'll tell you that in a second. Um uh

Valentine’s, Galentine’s & Quality Time

SPEAKER_02 2:20

yeah, Valentine's Day was good. Then I went to New York for a Galantine event for Fortune and Forks, and I got sick. I got sick for the count sick. And uh, so that was that. But everything was great, it was fun. I went to South Beach Food and Wine Festival. That was like my first year. I'm a foodie. I absolutely love trying different foods and just like going out and doing different things. So that was great. Um, if you guys have never been to South Beach Food and Wine Festival, please go. It's a great experience, honestly. And even I think the tickets are like $300, it's worth it. Like you spend $300 on a day out, like at dinner, go do something with that three. Like, go do something fun. You know, what I was saying about our anniversary with my man is that one year we were so busy with life, we completely forgot about our anniversary. We woke up like, wait, did we miss our anniversary? And we were like, yo, and we were cracking up, and like thank God we're just not people to really take that stuff to

South Beach Food & Wine Takeaways

SPEAKER_02 3:20

heart and always give each other grace. But it was funny because we had already gone out like a week in advance. So we were like, well, we kind of did celebrate, but like my mistake, and we just completely forgot about our anniversary and woke up like, oh, all right, anyways, moving on. Like, yeah, that is hilarious, but yeah, uh, so yeah, happy anniversary. Well, that well, no, that wasn't now. That's that's nearly yeah, but I was just saying, like, we're really funny about the holidays, like, we really just don't be caring. It's it's hilarious. Um, but thank you. And what I was gonna say, oh, February, baby girl, what are you where are you going? Where are you going? Because you're like racing through time right now. Like, I can't believe we are already at the end of months.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

It's it's it's literally nuts. I was literally saying I was just celebrating the new year, and February has gone and passed. Like, she is out the door. I'm like, every day you gotta just make the most out of it because you really just will turn around a blink of an eye, and it's literally the end of the year. So you just have to really go in. But I'm glad to know that you went to food and wine finally, because I I think I was telling you about it. I'm like, I love food and wine festival. Like it's a good time here in Miami, it's a great experience. Like, there are just tons of, like you said, like places to try food and vendors and all that. So I'm glad, glad that you did that. Um, but yeah, girl, this weekend we were just busy. I was I was just saying, like, I was celebrating birthdays. So um, my best friend Sabine had a birthday and we did something super cute for her. And I wanted to share it on the podcast. I think it's a good idea for anybody who has a friend that loves movies and maybe looking for like something to do. A really good, cute idea

Celebrating Friends: Private Movie Night Idea

SPEAKER_01 5:03

is renting a movie theater. So last year, I think I talked about on the pod, she like surprised me with like a Pilates, private Pilates. Her Crystal was in on the surprise, too. I know I drove them absolutely insane. Um, trying to get me to the Pilates thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Why do you have to wear the oh my god? I was like, oh nah, Amanda really is the only child. Like, you why do we have to wear pink? And I think that this is stupid because the brand should not. I was like, I'm gonna murder you.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

I was like, is the brand panned for my outfit? Because like, why do I have to wear pink? Like, what's happening here? Where's the Uber code? I'm just like, you know, time for you. I learned my lesson. I have to be better with letting people allowing people to surprise me because that was a mess. But no, so we did surprise her, and she was she literally was in tears. And I thought it's so like a cute idea because we got to stream whatever we wanted, and she loves like classic films. So we got to like stream like a real old school like Hollywood movie from the 50s, and um she loved it. So I think that's a cute idea if you're looking for like something to do for your friend, and you could like specialize that we had like a bar cart and like specialty things with her names on it and stuff like that. So if you're looking for an idea for your friend, that might be something good to do. But that's yeah, girl, I'm I'm ready to get into the week and get things going.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

But I'm talking about hostess with the most this this weekend and your friends came down, right? What what else did you guys do?

SPEAKER_01 6:20

So we just like hung out and just like really got to catch up because you know in everybody's busy lives, it's just like a lot going on, so you don't really get that girl time. But we did have it's so funny because we call because we're getting older, y'all. I love being inside. So I like we have this thing that me and my girls say where we're like, we're gonna have a sleepy girl weekend. And a sleepy girl weekend is literally you in the house, couch potato, blankets cuddled up, snacks on deck. You might even order an Uber, uh Uber Eats or DoorDash. But it's just you and your girls just enjoying each other's company. So I feel like we had a like a fun night out, fun, like, you know, specialty, like birthday things that we did for our girl. But we also had a sleepy girl weekend because we sat and watched America's Next Top Model, the reality check documentary that everybody is buzzing about online. Like it's literally

Sleepy Girl Weekend & Netflix Doc

SPEAKER_01 7:10

everywhere. So if you haven't checked it out, it's on Netflix. And I think I was texting Crystal about it. I was like, girl, this is just let's let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Cause there, I watched it also, and it's three episodes. I don't know if it's gonna be any more than that right now, but I felt a lot about it. It's like a mini doc. It's a mini mini doc. And I felt a lot of ways about it. I felt let's let's let's go episode by episode. Because there's a lot to learn from this, like in retrospect. I mean, everything in life is like in retrospect, you learn, right? But I think there's also a lot to consider for the future, not only for the people in the show, but the people watching the show. So let's talk about it. Episode one.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

What did you think? For the people who don't know, America's Next Top Model was a reality series that aired on UPN. They don't even have VPN now, do they? Let's just say, in my opinion, as a millennial girly they used to love coming home from school, watching

ANTM: Origins, Intent & Impact

SPEAKER_01 8:12

all the popular shows after school, America's Next Top Model was one of those shows. They literally put that network on the map with viewers and all that. And it was basically a reality TV show, similar to like an American Idol, that same concept where everybody's, you know, just trying to compete for that number one spot, right? And this spot was a modeling career. And I think they had like Ford Models was the modeling agency, and they went and did these like crazy, um, different like scouts and tasks for like photo shoots and all these just like wild, crazy things to all compete for the number one spot. So it went on to have 24 seasons, right? And Tyra Banks was the creator or one of the creators of this said reality show. But in hindsight, COVID brought the show back to life because you know, everybody was in the house and watching, you know, old old shows, and America's Next Top Model was a show that was getting streamed more because of the pandemic. So now everybody's talking about what's been going on with that show because there was so much negative things that transpired that I think didn't age well for the show. And it's so funny because one of the girls said it really well, and I want to try to see if I can repeat the way she said it. But she was like, back in the time, back in those days when America's next top model aired, we expected that out of reality TV shows, right? Like, so it wasn't crazy to us then, but now it's like, wait a second, that wouldn't be accepted. Like it's not accepted how it used to be back in the day. The first episode really was the introduction to the reality show, how it came about, how Tyra was able to pitch it to all these different networks and being able to land with UPN getting it, um, which was great for the network because it did really well. But it was really like the beginning stages of them casting. They had a lot of conversations on, you know, like trying to diversify the show because I think Tyra's main thing was, you know, she was a black supermodel who dealt with a lot of backlash in the industry when she was trying to come up with not being accepted the way she wanted to. So she wanted to create a show initially where there was a lot of diversity and um inclusion when it related to like the girls on the show. So I think it kind of started out like that, and then we started seeing like all the behind the scenes and the things that we were just like, wait a second, that happened on the show? I don't know. What did you I thought it was what did you think about the first episode? I thought the first episode it was more like the introduction to the reality series. What did you think about it?

SPEAKER_02 10:40

The first episode was very much about like the background, where did it come from, you know, how did the show come about and like how Tyra really fought for it to be on air. I think that to your point, there's a lot of controversy and a lot of conversation about the show and Tyra Banks and and all these different things, and what she did do, what she didn't do, what the judges did do, what the judges didn't do. And I feel like while there is a bunch of accountability to be taken in every single aspect for every single person that was there, I think what people constantly miss

Power, Ratings & Who’s The Boss

SPEAKER_02 11:19

is everybody has a boss, and even the people you think that are at the top of the food chain are not really at the top of the food chain, they're just a forefront, they're just a face. Tyra had a boss. Tyra got let go from her own show, okay? So, like let's go. Crazy.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Um insane.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

And people don't a lot of times people don't understand the television industry, and that was an even more complex show because not only was it television, it was modeling and it was the intersection of both of those things. So yeah, it was just confusing for people to consume in general. Uh so I think that it was they did really good with the first episode of like giving you a background of where did the show come from and like the origin story. And I think that Tyra really did have good intentions when she started the show, which was to promote inclusivity and to really give women an opportunity to step on a runway. However, I think once the show became her main vehicle and her only meaning to life, because she said it herself, like once she was, you know, after modeling, she was like, What am I gonna do? Like now what? How do I basically stay relevant? How do I keep money coming in? And you know, this show was that for her. So that was her livelihood. And I think once she realized, like, oh, this went from my mission and my purpose and something that you know I genuinely believed in to this is my livelihood, and my life depends on it, and my income depends on it. She did everything that she needed to do to protect it, even at the expense of everybody else. Yeah, that's so true. She had really good intentions when she initially started, but like a lot of people, like a lot of things, like a lot of different situations, you start with a pure heart, and if you let that devil in, baby, the devil gonna dance where you let it in every time.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

That's so true. And I I could see that. And I feel like that's with a lot of shows, right? I feel like initially the shows start out that way, and then they gotta keep up with the ratings. Cause like I think you brought up a good point. A lot of people don't understand the television industry, and then you're also adding like a competition in the mix of that and people's actual lives and livelihood that's happening simultaneously. So I do think, like, I think a lot of people were talking about it and saying, like, was this like a show where you know Tyra was like exploiting the girls or like were they being mentored in the right way? Was like the reality TV show really put out to empower people or to exploit, you know, the modeling industry and the girls that were really trying to get put on. Um, I honestly don't say this. Also, I am not a tyra, I am, I I love Tyra. I'm this is not, I'm not, I don't want to like bash her at all, but I do think that she was one thing that I feel like was kind of repeating itself on all the episodes

Mission vs Reality: Did It Help Models

SPEAKER_01 14:05

is she lacked accountability in a lot of aspects when it related to like the success of the winners and like even the judges, like you'll notice that. And by the way, if you're listening to this podcast, please know if there they're gonna probably be some spoilers on here. Um, I don't want you to listen if you don't want to necessarily have us like give spoilers, but like for example, Miss J, like there was just so much that happened. I was like, Tyra, where were you at? Like, these are your friends, like the people that she started the show with outside of you know the one guy that she went to meet with in LA, they were her friends. Like these are people that she was cool with in the industry. And I feel like the show just kind of broke that whole relationship apart, which sucks.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Two things. Well, you said something about like the success of people, which I think is very important to mention because I agree with you. While everybody has a boss and they have to do what they have to do for the ratings, so on and so forth. I think one thing we did see in the show was her lack of accountability with helping the women who did win actually see success in that industry. And I think that she used sort of like a philanthropy mission and combined that with reality TV, and those two things don't go together. It's almost like combining religion with something that's completely opposite of it, like they just don't mesh. Or, like, you know how people are like, oh, like your pastor is driving a Rolls Royce, like it does not make sense. And that that's kind of like the real issue. It's not that the show was a reality TV show because we had the real world, we had Jersey Shore, we had Fear Factor, we had all those things where people were being pushed to their limits. I think Survivor. Yes, survivor. When she hit when she when when she folded that sort of structure in under the guise of I'm trying to help people, that's when people started pulling her card. Because it's like, no, you can't do both. Like, yeah, what are you doing here? And originally it started as, yeah, we're trying to help people, we're trying to diversify stuff, so on and so forth. And she did to a certain extent. I mean, look at Winnie Harlow, you know, that's a major success story. Did it take 24 seasons to get away with her? Yeah, yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

But and Winnie wasn't even, I don't know if we remember, but Winnie wasn't even one of the winners on the show. She definitely had a like a huge success from the show. And I loved that because it was also a way for girls to see girls who have, you know, Vitiligo to see like a girl like Winnie modeling. That's beautiful. Like for people to see themselves represented in in all aspects. And I do feel like that's kind of what the show was aiming for. Like as it related to like, and I hate the word plus size model because those girls that were plus size model are like literally average my weight and height right now. Well, not my height, but my weight. And I'm like, dang, am I plus size? Like, you know what I mean? So I hate the term plus size model because I'm just like, I hate it. But I do feel like she was trying to showcase more diversity because we know that when Tyra was coming up, it probably wasn't

Representation, Plus Size Labels & Shifts

SPEAKER_01 17:05

easy for her. Like she probably dealt with a lot of of backlash related to that. Um for sure. But there was, but I think the the one thing that I will say that I feel was the repeating conversation was back then, also let's also understand beauty, the beauty industry, the modeling industry, it changes. Like what was hot and what was like fad back then when it related to models is not the same thing now.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Like, just because we force it to change, which is because if not, it'll stay the same. And do I think that she played a major part in it forcing to change? Yes. What I was trying to say before, too, about the success of the models, it's like to hear women who did win or like get to towards the end or whatever the case may be, say, like, yeah, I was signed to an agency and they did absolutely nothing with me because I came off of that show is crazy to me. Because at that point, there is, and this is where the accountability comes in. There's the show, which, yeah, you have a boss, right? But then after the show, Tyra, what are you doing on your spare time to really devote yourself to that mission that you were pushing, supposedly, allegedly?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

You know, this may be, I don't know if this is like a different perspective. But I know one of the models, Danny, was one of the ones that spoke out about that experience that she had, where the modeling agency was kind of like, I think they had a conversation with Chanel Iman and they were saying, Yeah, we have to treat Danny different because she came from America's next top model, right? I'm gonna be honest, I had to sit and think about both both sides. And I can honestly understand, I hate that she went through that and I hate that she wasn't able to find success. I think she's a beautiful girl and I think she was super talented and she deserved to have a successful modeling career. But I do understand sometimes as it relates to brands, yeah, but I do understand when it relates to like brands and like an agent that you won a modeling competition. So yes, you did prove that you are an amazing model and you had the talent and the skill. But winning something where America's watching in a reality series, like something as big as America's next top model, does come with like a level of celebrity, right? And I think that the brands were afraid to hire her because we're hiring you to showcase our clothes, we're hiring you to showcase like the fashion. But because you're this big star, people may not see the fashion and see you for who you are. And I think that's what they were saying is like, you know, she's gonna come with like a level of celebrity where it's like, oh my God, it's the winner of America's next top model versus oh my God, she's wearing Givenchy. Like, I love that dress. I

Brands, Celebrity Aura & Control

SPEAKER_01 19:40

want to buy that dress, or she's wearing Tom Ford's latest styles, latest fall, spring collection. I want to buy because it looks good on her. They were, I can see understanding, I could understand the perspective of a brand being like, she's gonna like be somebody that people want to see, but are they is she gonna sell the actual clothes?

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Do you get what I'm saying? I get what you're saying a thousand percent, and I feel the opposite. Well, okay, I no, I feel you, I feel where you're talking, like where you're coming from, but yeah, I think what we're really seeing in the bigger picture is a power shift that the brands didn't want to experience. They wanted somebody voiceless that was just a face that they can put their stuff on and versus somebody who came with their own sort of presence to your point that would possibly, you know, overpower such and such. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

But and I don't I don't think it's right. I don't think it's right, by the way. I want to say that. I do think I was just saying I was understanding the the perspective and the reasoning, but I don't think it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

But however, which, you know, back then it was okay though, right? Like and and and it's not necessarily wrong because when you are on the brand end, you're thinking about your brand and putting your brand at the forefront. But when you are a human being, you should be putting yourself at the forefront, right? So there's there there's those different sort of elements at battle fighting for the forefront, right? But what's funny to me is that this is a great example of how the power has shifted in various industries, not only modeling, but what we do, Amanda, right? Like we have seen, we have seen over time how brands and companies have gone from we need people who fit in this square now to today, where they say we need people who have their own celebrity and who have their own platform to come work with us, to come walk on this show, to come walk this runway and do whatever.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

So we don't have to do all the work.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

No, but we have to do all the work. But to me, what's crazy about this is like we really witness, like we can all sit here and criticize it, but like we really witness the power shift through that show. Like it took 24 seasons, but they were really ahead of their time with that because now, like I said, you have brands who want these models to come with their own celebrity, they're hiring girls from a Um Love Island. Back then they didn't want that. Now that's what they want.

The Industry Power Shift To Creators

SPEAKER_02 22:05

It's accepted. Right? It's now it's accepted. So I think did the mission really fail? Not really. She really did make a huge impact in society. Are we all criticizing the things that happened during it? Yeah, we are. Because it was crazy. We need to talk about some of those. Even the ones who didn't win, but she felt like y'all got potential. Let me pass you to a team off camera to help you get going. You get what I'm saying? To keep that actual mission going. And I think that's where she lacked. I think had she continued the mission off the camera, people would not have lit her ass up the way they did when they started re-watching it in retrospect. And what I was what I was also wanting to say for for our listeners, if you are in an industry and you're pushing towards something and people are like, this is not gonna work because this is not how this industry works, that is a pure sign that you are in the right direction. Because look at Tyra. This is not gonna work because this girl has a gap in her tooth. It's not gonna work, blah, blah, blah. XYZ. And now look, now years later, people are accepting of these things and really praising these things that we should have been praising back then. So if you are listening and you're working on something and somebody's telling you this is not gonna work because the industry works like XYZ, keep pushing because the industry is going to shift to fit what you are envisioning.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

They just haven't caught up to you yet. Love that. I love that you said that. And I want to actually add to that and say people don't realize the power that they have sometimes because yeah, the industry does shift and it will make, and I feel like that the actual universe will make room for you if you're willing to do the work and do what you need to do. And also let's pay attention to all the winners of America's next top model. I'll even take it a step further, American Idol, like all these competition shows. Think of how many people are still currently successful from those shows, right? So, what I'm wanting people to get is if you have a phone and you have some way of showcasing your talent, you also have the power. You don't necessarily have to be on these reality TV shows and be a winner

Compromise, Soul Selling & Young Contestants

SPEAKER_01 24:20

of these shows to have really true success. And I think that that's just something that I wanted to mention because I'm like, I was looking back at all the winners and I'm like, I know Eva, I know Danny, I know Winnie was on um a previous episode, Takara, and so many of the amazing girls who won the series, but I was like, there's only like a few of them that are still doing this, right? So I think that it goes to show that you don't necessarily have to have these reality TV show um approvals or winnings or just have that, I guess, cosign to feel like you can make it in this industry. I think if you find other outlets, whether it's YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, just being out and about and being in the right spaces and connecting with the right people, you two also can get, I feel like, to that level as well. So I wanted to add that.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

And that is like a lot of thoughts for episode one, right? And that's how much information was thrown at us within the first episode. But as I continue to watch and like going into episode two, I really felt like the bigger picture there was just like a reflection of a cycle of compromising that we witnessed and a cycle of soul selling. We just continuously watch from the judges to Tyra to even the girls on the show, constantly compromise themselves and their morals. There was a lesson to be learned for everybody. Everybody. And it was unfortunate because a lot of the girls, they were young, they were kids. I'm sorry. You are 21 until you were 25. Your brain really doesn't start to develop. At the end of the day, if anybody deserved the most grace, it was all the girls that were coming on there, that were super young, that were chasing their dreams. Like, yeah, they were very vulnerable. However, there is also a certain accountability, which I saw during the documentary some of the ladies did take, which is like it was like saying things like it was acceptable back then, but also it's like they kind of knew what they were signing up for. After season one, season two, you have an idea of what you're walking into. Granted, it did get extreme and more extreme every season. So you kind of every time you didn't know, but also you had enough to go and say, This is more reality TV than it is philanthropy, then it is a real opportunity. And I think we just witness everybody constantly compromise themselves and their morals um in just different ways, like down to the Jays, right? Like how they constantly compromise themselves, like they no longer had a voice on the show. Um, Tyra 2, she got fired from her own show. But the girls like doing things and altering their physical bodies

Consumer Responsibility & What We Watch

SPEAKER_02 27:05

that they're gonna have to deal with for the rest of them life the rest of their life after the show, they they walk away and they go back into reality and they gotta deal with the decisions and the choices that they made for this one specific show. And I just thought it was very interesting to just see the we the the cycle of just constant compromising. And if there's one thing I took away from like episode two, it was that like just a lot of compromising for the limelight, for things that we think are our dreams and for the ratings. And I think as a consumer back then, it's funny because again, back then we all sat and watched and we were like, oh, this is reality TV, it was normal, but now everybody woke up and in a blink of an eye was like, actually, that was really wrong. Like, yeah, no shit. If it was wrong back then, it was wrong today and it's gonna be wrong in the future.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

But at the same time, can I not to cut you off, but can I say something? I think now people are I'm gonna just say it. I think people are hypersensitive. I think people are hypers sensitive, and even myself included, because when I was when I was watching that show when I was a teenager watching like the first seasons and seeing it, I didn't think anything of it. When Janice Dickerson would get on and says, Oh, that that pose makes her look like a crackhead, or she looks like a porn star, or like she's just even more wild than that. She's not sure if you're not thinking. She could never who cares. She said even more wilder things than that, right? But I think watching it, I was like, oh, like this is a sacrifice these girls were making because they want to be on top. Like they want to be America's next top model. So these were just things that they had to do. But I think now everyone is just extremely like, oh my God, like you can't say those things, you can't do those things. And I don't know, to be honest, I feel like it takes, it takes away from not everything. I do think there were some things that happened on the show. Like I hated the blackface, I hated, you know, just different things that they did to make the girls feel uncomfortable

When Ratings Cross The Line

SPEAKER_01 29:05

when they had them um pretend to be drug, drug addicts and strung out for just the sake of a photo shoot. Like some of the photo shoots were absolutely insane. And a lot of the girls even went and said that they couldn't even use that in their portfolios. Like this wasn't real like modeling photos that I could use and take to another brand. I was not about that. But I do think that some things that did hap, that did happen were like character building things or things that like really pushed them beyond. Because let's be honest, the industry, we it it's changed a lot, but I do think that there's things that happen behind the scenes in the modeling industry that people will never know and never really truly speak on that still happen today. And I think it was even worse back then because people were more vocal about it. But I think those things happen quietly now because people are so hypersensitive. Um, and I think that that's just something that I was like thinking about when I was watching the series, the docuseries is like, are we just really sensitive right now to things? Because back then, when I was watching all these reality shows, I did not think that.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Well, here's the thing. I I think I think both things can be true, right? Like we could be really sensitive right now, but also to your point, some of the stuff that they did was just out of freaking line. And I think that what I was gonna say before was that I think there's no accountability as consumers, like back then. Like today, I feel like we take more accountability, like when it comes to social media, we're like, I'm not consuming that, I'm turning it off. That is a way of us holding our power. So it's funny to me that people wake up and re-watch these shows and now they're like, that was wrong. Like, are you telling yourself too that it was wrong? Because you watched it, and that's why they kept going. Because you watched it. You sat there and you you went as soon as you came home, you finished that homework and you turned that TV on. Why? Okay, because you did that, it kept going. So it's like, are the consumer the consumers who watched it the first time in real time and then went and watched it back to criticize? Are you also criticizing yourself for

Standards, Practices & Harmful Shoots

SPEAKER_02 31:05

the power of your day? Yeah. Yeah. Like you have to take accountability because at the end of the day, if you didn't tune in, they wasn't doing it. They weren't. They weren't gonna do none of the things that they did, they weren't gonna keep pushing the envelope.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I do, I do hate that the show got to a point where it's like you knew they were strictly doing things for ratings. Whenever a show gets to that point, it's kind of like, okay, like when I don't remember when specifically Tyra got her talk show, but you obviously could tell the talk show was something she wanted to do, but it also was great because it was pushing the narrative of the actual reality TV show. But I feel like the moment she got the talk show, it's like, okay, this was like for ratings for sure for me, because I think that like she definitely brought on some of the girls to talk about the experiences of like what they went through on America's Next Top Model on the talk show. But I'm not gonna lie, I did enjoy Tyra's talk show, but I do feel like when they seen how successful the reality TV show was, and then she got that on top of it, it was like, okay, then I feel like the show kind of took a turn for me when I was watching it.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Right. And that's my point. Like, I think that there's accountability not only from the judges from Tyra, I mean her bosses don't give a damn because nobody knows that they were the ones. I mean, now after we watched a documentary, right now we know who was the one pushing the envelope, who was the one who got XYZ fired, right? Now we know, but like they didn't really care back then. But again, as consumers, we also have to be responsible to use our brains in real time too. Like, granted, we were younger, a lot of us were coming out of high school watching that stuff, so we were just like, oh my God, like this is crazy. But where were the adults in the room to say they're doing a photo shoot with three-year-old kids wrapped in materials? Nah, that's weird It was too much. That's wrong. It was too much. That photo shoot blew my mind. I'm like, who on set thought this was a great idea to have toddl wrapped in, I don't even know what to call them. It just looked like a uh three yards of cloth naked on set for a photo shoot.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

It was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

I don't even care if they had underwear on. Why do y'all think that that is absolutely necessary? Like, I want to, you know what? I want to hear from them kids today.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

What were those feelings? That's why I don't know if they had it back then. What were their parents? That's why a lot of shows have standards and practices and have legal teams that literally have to vet the content, have to

Would We Do Reality Competitions

SPEAKER_01 33:25

vet the things so that they are within, you know, the a very positive light for these brands. And I don't feel like those departments were as involved back then when these shows aired. I think it was more or less like, okay, what are we gonna do? Because we got to make sure we make the this next episode better than the last. And I don't know, it watching this, watching the three-part docuseries made me think even to myself, I'm like, now knowing what I know and just being in that generation of watching these shows, I'm like, would I get on a reality show to compete for my dreams in this moment? Like, do you feel like you would do like a show like similar to not necessarily American Sick Top Model, but like for like what we do? Would you be on like a competition show for something like that? And had to do crazy things? Like, would you not crazy things? I would go on Shark Shark Tank. Okay. I like Shark Tank. Shark Tank is amazing. Because other than that, there ain't no show that's not a good thing. They're not doing, yeah, but they're not doing anything on Shark Tank that's like I mean, they do talk to people crazy a little bit, and I think that's where I might fail.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Right there. Okay. You gotta go. You can't control your emotions and you can't run a business like that. But not to do anything crazy, but also I think that I'm speaking from a per a very different perspective than what a lot of those girls were coming out of. They were coming out of high school, they were leaving their houses at 18. That that's not my wall. So I don't know what I would do if I was then in this current stage, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Because I probably would. Yeah. They were kidding. And one thing I will say that I think the show showed, and even currently in this day and age, what we're realizing

Exposure As Modern Currency

SPEAKER_01 35:05

is exposure is currency for sure. Like you can get far in a lot of instances based on exposure. We see it every day on social media. Look at how many people are getting brand deals or getting major recognition from really big brands and getting money just based on things that they post online or just thoughts, emotions, sharing talents, or just expressing themselves and getting the exposure and the viewership and going viral, that turns into currency sometimes. Not every single time, not often. Some is for a re a positive reason, some maybe negative, but it does definitely hold weight when you have a certain level of exposure. And a lot of the girls on the show got that exposure, and a lot of them were pretty successful from their career from getting it. I do want to say that I hate, oh, also, before I even say my next thought, I don't know if people realize this. Tara was not originally in the documentary. So the documentary, for those who don't know, was originally supposed to be for Miss J and to talk about Miss J's like career and also connection with America's Next Top Model. And I think um Jay Manuel and also, oh my gosh, the photographer is slipping my mind. Yeah, was also supposed to be a part of it. And I think Tyra got wind of it, and then they brought Netflix was trying to reach out to them to see if they can get Tyra

Miss J, Friendship & Power Politics

SPEAKER_01 36:25

to be on. And then, girl, I'm watching the episode and I'm on episode three and I'm like, season 25. I'm sorry, was this all PR for a new episode? Like a new season? Which was crazy to me.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Run that back to me.

unknown 36:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

They not have 25 seasons.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

I thought they had 25 seasons. They had 24. 24. 24. So at the end of the documentary, there were teases that there's going to be a season 25.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

So You know, when I first when we first started this podcast, like today, I was like, you gotta give everybody grades, like Tyler's, and that that that really just turned my whole perspective. Because not only, and I didn't know that. I didn't know that this documentary didn't originally include her. Um I think she saw how people were reacting and was like, if I don't speak, they gonna speak for me. And let me go ahead and get in here. But you know what I don't like about the whole entire documentary? Why didn't you go see um your your co-host? And why did you start treating your other co-hosts like they were less than you?

SPEAKER_01 37:31

When he was in the hospital, that really upset me so badly because I was like, oh, you But you but you own a documentary that was supposed to be about him and his walk and how he came about. You want to get money with me. You you knew me from when I was a teenager. I helped you. He helped you in your career. But when the man was in the hospital, you sent flowers and say we gotta like, I don't know. I think he said she texted her, like she wants to come. She's gonna come visit Sue or she wants to come. And I think she was in Australia or she's living

Humility, Longevity & Legal Lessons

SPEAKER_01 38:00

currently in Australia, and she was living in Australia at the time. I don't care how busy a person is. We've say this all we said this all the time. Person's gonna make time for what they want to make time for, but also like a person's health and that being really like your true friend. Tyre Banks hat can't afford, I mean, but you I would think can afford to go see her friend in the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Listen, you know what I was gonna say? I was gonna say that's that this is a this is a great example of how people in power like to pull cards. This shows everybody that they were never really friends. People in power like to play and act like they're your friend while it's convenient for them. But once it becomes inconvenient and that friendship no longer lasts, that's a that's a tell all right there that y'all were never friends to begin with. Like, and people in power always do that. They will have people around them, you know, when it's convenient for them. Oh yeah, we cool. This is my friend. Like, yeah, we we hanging out, we, we, we, we, we together on the weekends, telling secrets, all the things, key can. Next thing you know, her boss calls and says, Yeah, they all gotta go. And you don't say nothing to none of them at all.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

No, that's ridiculous. That's crazy. But a lot of people in power do that. They like to play cool, play down to earth while it's convenient. But the moment the light switch goes off, you're a different person and they show you that y'all were never really friends to begin with, and you have to take that for what it is the first time. So if I was if I was Miss J, I would I don't even know. I would like I could understand like how she got on because obviously good journalism, you have to give all perspectives, but no, don't come see me. I'm good. Keep that energy over there.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

You already showed me once. No thanks.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Right. Yeah, until it happens to them. Because I'm sure Tyra never thought in one day of her producing and creating that show that she would get the boot as well. And you know what?

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Let me tell you something. The last thing I'm gonna say about the show

Balanced View On Tyra’s Legacy

SPEAKER_02 40:00

is that if there's anything you're gonna take from it, is that the humble don't fumble. Keep it cute, keep it cute. What goes up comes down, and what is down goes up every time. Every time. We talked about this a couple weeks ago with Tiana Taylor, Bad Bunny. We see it. The people that you think, oh yeah, they're not going nowhere because their progress is slow. Keep in mind that progress is slow for a reason. It's because it has longevity in it. Okay. Yeah. Just because it's slow doesn't mean it's it's stopped. It's just slowly progressing. And if you're hot right now, you could be real low in a couple weeks. And you might need them same exact people. And that's not to say you should keep people around because you're probably gonna need them, you're probably gonna use them. That's to say keep it cute.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah, and also one thing I want to add too is make sure when you are a creative and you are creating something. I don't know legally what Tyra had in place when she was launching America's next top model. But I feel like a lot of us when we're trying to kind of get put on or when we have these grand ideas and we're trying to get networks behind things and do things, sometimes our paperwork is not in order in the right way. Because I was looking back and I was like, for her to get fired from her own show, something wasn't at some point, she gave up her rights. Yeah, she gave up her rights, or something wasn't put in place to where she currently has a say so no matter what, because this is hers. Like she owns the rights to it. So I also want to say, make sure we all sometimes want, like, when we get that budget or we get the money or we get whatever we need to get to get to the next level. That stuff kind of

Attention Is Power: Use It Well

SPEAKER_01 41:35

falls to the wayside because oh my god, we gotta hop on this opportunity ASAP. But I think that we should also make sure that we have whatever in place so that we protect ourselves no matter what. And I said this in the beginning: watch a documentary. If you were a fan of America's Next Top Model, watch it because it definitely gives a different perspective on the show. And I think it's even just interesting to watch now if you can remember watching back then, because you will probably have a different outlook on the things that the girls had to go through and what happened on the show. But I do still feel like Tyra Banks is a pioneer in the modeling industry. She definitely broke a lot of barriers. I feel like she did create a lot of opportunities. She did get a lot of backlash for just different things that transpired with the show. But I definitely don't want to take away from Tyra being like a legend. Like she did the work, she literally did so much. So I think that she does, she does deserve her flowers. But my girl could have been a little bit more accountable in some aspects for sure. I love Tyra. I love Tyra.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

And if you guys are gonna watch the show, watch to learn not to critique. Because if you're watching it again, you were one of those irresponsible consumers back then. So don't be irresponsible twice because twice is a choice. The first time was a mistake. So even when you're on social media right now, you're like, hey, I hate this content. Stop watching it. Stop watching it because that's another thing. Our eyes are so valuable. The attention we give to things are so it's so valuable. And that's another thing I feel like I took from this documentary. What we watch, what we sit and give our time to is so much more valuable than we understand. But guess who understands? Those higher ups. They do, they understand. And we need to start putting ourselves on that pedestal too. If they think about our time like that, why don't we think about our time like that?

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Look, and while

Listener Review & Applying Advice

SPEAKER_01 43:20

we're on the topic, give the podcast a listen, right? Pay it, give the attention and the views and the listens and the watches to the right places. To the right places, like Elevators Podcast. Um, because I agree with what Crystal's saying. Like if we give our, if we pay attention and give the level of like positive, like reinforcement to the things that we love, those things are gonna get more light and more shine. So I had to plug our our show on there because you know, the more that you guys listen, share, subscribe, and pass our podcast along wherever you watch it or listen to it, it does that. Speaking of, I think you said you had a review for us, which we love. I did. I did have reviews on the show. Please continue to have them come in because we want to read them for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Yeah. So somebody, it's funny from the episode we posted a couple weeks ago, what was it? We were saying, oh, about not saying it's okay when somebody is apologizing. Uh, someone left a comment on the video and was like, that's something I now have to put into action. And I love that. Like, I love when we are on this, you know, podcast talking about different ways to improve ourselves and to grow and to also help other people grow. So if, you know, if you like this episode, share it with a friend. Maybe it's a conversation starter after all of you guys watch this documentary. Let us know also what you think in the comments after you watch these three episodes. Like, what were your takeaways? Because

Final Takeaways & Sign‑Off

SPEAKER_02 44:45

for me, it was the humble, don't fumble. Our time is valuable, so let's treat it as such. And everybody needs to accountability. Everybody. So, yeah, let us know what you think about that. That was the comment that I just wanted to shed light on because I I just love when people are actually taking the things that we say and putting it into action because we really do have great intentions with this podcast and positive intentions. We hope that continues to translate.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Yeah, and I think I'm gonna give my my three takeaways from this docuseries as well. And one of them is what was accepted back then definitely doesn't always age well now. The second one is I think I just mentioned it before. It's the second one is exposure is currency. If it's the right exposure and it's the right positive thing that you want to put out there, you can connect with the brand or the career that you are choosing to. And the third thing is diversity and inclusion is always needed. And we got to make sure that in whatever it is that we do, that we make sure that we're representing all the people that need to be represented in that way so that other people that are watching it can feel inspired and be like, wow, if this person's on it or this person's doing it, and this person looks like me and my body type and my style, my skin complexion, then I can do it too. Because I feel like in this world, we should only be wanting to put things out that are positive and uplifting in that way. So that was like I wanted to say, those are my takeaways. We love you, Tyra. I love you, Tyra. Just we gotta do right with season 25. But you, you got you got some character of practicing view.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Crystal side, she eyes you don't leave your home, you know, your friends like that. I don't like that. But, anyways, like, comment, subscribe, talk to us on Speakpipe, and we will catch you on the next episode of Elevators Podcast. That's right. Bye, guys.