LOOKING BACK, MOVING FORWARD: END OF SEASON ONE

Join hosts Val Barrett and Dr Jeremy Anderson as they wrap up the first season of 'Stories, Labels, and Misconceptions.' In this reflective episode, they discuss the impact of labels and misconceptions on individuals in society, particularly those struggling with housing, healthcare, and social services.

They highlight stories from past episodes and share their personal insights gained throughout the season. As they announce the break before launching season two in video format, they emphasise the importance of understanding and challenging labels to replace assumptions with truths, and why telling these stories matters.

To all our listeners, both Dr Jeremy and I would like to say thank you for supporting us. Join us for Season 2 at the end of January 2026. 

📧 Email us: storieslabelsandmisconceptions@gmail.com

🎵 Music: Dynamic
🎤 Rap Lyrics: Hollyhood Tay
🎬 Podcast Produced & Edited by: Val Barrett

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Transcript

EP;35 LOOKING BACK, MOVING FORWARD: END OF SEASON ONE

INTRO RAP: [00:00:00] Stories, labels, Misconceptions, NHS remains a blessing. Created in 1948, we want it to remain great. A podcast where we share our stories, explore solutions in all their glories. They say it's broken, but it's not done, with your host Val Barrett and Dr. Jeremy Anderson.

Val: After 34 episodes, we've realised something. Every story had labels and every label carried a misconception.

Today we're reflecting on that and why Stories matter more than ever. Welcome back to Stories, Labels and Misconception with me Val [00:01:00] Barrett 

Dr Jeremy: I'm Dr Jeremy Anderson 

Val: Today is our last episode for season one because we're going to take a break, recharge and relaunch with video at the end of January 2026. We wanted this final conversation to be about the heart of what we've been doing. Okay, Dr. Jeremy. 

Dr Jeremy: Absolutely.

Dr Jeremy: So we've told stories, sometimes they're painful, sometimes shocking. Sometimes I don't know, full of hope, or at least partial hope.

We've, last week we told the story of Alice Figueredo. Families looking for answers young people failed by the system. People experiencing loneliness, housing problems, challenges in health care, mental health and community.

We tell these stories by telling the [00:02:00] broad picture using statistics and data and figures but then we want to try to combine that with individual stories of individuals They just show the warmth, the complexity, the humanity behind the numbers, which I think is an important combination.

Val: We do this because too many people feel unheard. Families are fighting quiet battles, whether waiting for a GP appointment, living in a home full of mould and damp, in the care system that was supposed to protect them. So we try to bring clarity, replace assumptions with understanding. Labels with humanity and misconceptions with truth.

Dr Jeremy: Should we talk about the different labels we've been thinking about?

Val: Yes. 

Dr Jeremy: Often in the stories that we've been telling in relation to, people struggling for housing or healthcare 

Speaker 5: or, 

Dr Jeremy: Or [00:03:00] whatever issue we're talking about this week, we hear labels for people. They're vulnerable or hard to reach, I hate. This idea of, hard to reach like, it's something about the person that needs to change rather than other people maybe needing to try a little more to actually reach people or trying, just trying it in a different way, right?

That's a really good example of how a label there's just a hidden assumption in there that gets smuggled in. And if we're not careful, we don't even notice it, but it does shape the way that we think about these things. And so I think that's really what we're trying to do with the podcast is tell these stories, notice the labels and the way that it's being framed. Notice the way that there's some hidden assumptions being reinforced, challenge those assumptions and come up with a different conception or at least less of a misconception Yeah. Of what's going on. 

Val: But going back to the hard to reach, the emphasis is on the person in the [00:04:00] community, as opposed to the people that deliver the service are supposed to be the ones that meet the people at the community. Not the other way round. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: When a service isn't delivered or the expectations are met for that service, then it's this group is hard to reach. The BAME group is hard to reach and the travelling community is hard to reach. The LGBTQ, plus community, they're all hard to reach. Therefore we can't deliver XYZ.

It's an excuse because people live somewhere. So when you're one of these groups and you complain, the next label is You're angry, especially when you come from a BAME group, an [00:05:00] ethnic minority group, you are labelled angry and difficult. Even though we all have the right to complain. 

Dr Jeremy: Anger is one of those things, one of those labels that there's other labels behind there that tend to go along with it that are unstated.

When you talk about, this group of people are angry, you're not usually talking about a state. They just, they have many different emotions, but they happen to be feeling angry in this moment, given a particular situation. What you're really doing is describing anger as a trait, a personality feature of this group of people.

Like these people, this group of people are always or frequently angry regardless of what's happening 

Val: yeah. 

Dr Jeremy: That assumption gets Smuggled in. 

Val: Non compliant. 

Dr Jeremy: Yes, yeah, non compliant. Yeah, that's a great one. We often use that in healthcare and even now you still [00:06:00] hear doctors and nurses talking about non compliant.

And what psychologists talk about a lot is a better way of describing it is to talk about a lack of adherence. rather than compliance. Because to say that someone is not complying with the medication is to say that they know what they're supposed to do and they're choosing not to do it. 

Val: Yes.

Dr Jeremy: Sometimes it may be that, but actually most of the time when people are not taking their medication in exactly the way that it's prescribed, it could be they're mistaken about what it means to take it correctly. Or, they're not able to, or they can't afford it, or any number of reasons where people are really trying their best to take the medication as it's prescribed, but they're just, but for whatever reason they're not able to. It's not because they're not compliant or stubborn. It's it's for a host of other reasons. 

Val: And then you've [00:07:00] got other labels for people's whose English is their second language or third. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: They're labelled differently most are not listened to 

Dr Jeremy: yeah.

Val: I've heard comments from people I used to work with many years ago. They're lucky they're here. They're lucky they're in this country. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: They're lucky they've got a home. What, living in damp and mould? How do you know the home that they left behind was full of damp and moult? So there again, there's that label that leads on to the misconception that they've all come from something a lot worse. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Yeah, so they're labelled when you're in social housing. We talked about that before, it's called a tower block or a high rise in Dubai or Park Lane or Mayfair is called a penthouse suite.[00:08:00] 

Everybody wants to live at the top because the top says wealth, but in social housing, everybody wants to live at the bottom near the lift. The lift often breaks down, and it never gets fixed on time. It's the maintenance in social housing. Because they're both tour blocks, they're both on estates, but once you put that word housing in front of that word estate, another label appears.

But then you've got rich people that own estates, Their label is different. So we all get labelled, but the label for people in social housing on housing estates are often negative. 

Dr Jeremy: The different label carries assumptions and negative connotations. 

Val: When so many people that live in social housing [00:09:00] that have really good jobs, I think it's just that word social. That word social on its own. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. It's an okay word. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. When you put it in that context of social housing the word social is basically a stand in for poor 

Val: Social security. 

Dr Jeremy: And it's a kind of social services.

Val: Anything that follows that word. is deemed a negative. When the things that follow that word are there to help people that need help and they're not all unemployed. A lot of people that claim benefits actually work. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Because employers are not paying them a good wage to live. The government has to top it off with benefits. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: The misconception is, they're all unemployed. 

Dr Jeremy: Yes. 

Val: They're all scroungers, but a lot of them are working. 

Dr Jeremy: A lot of people are working, these low [00:10:00] income jobs, 

Speaker 4: low 

Dr Jeremy: paid, low status jobs need to get done, but we don't want to pay people too much for them. The people who do those jobs. Need some help. 

Val: Any more? 

Dr Jeremy: I think we talked about a lot of labels. But the principle is the same. I think it's an important habit to think about what are the hidden assumptions that get smuggled in when we apply a label. Because we label people all the time. Often It doesn't cause harm as long as we're aware of what we're doing. 

Val: It's when it causes harm. Somebody with mental health. I know this is true. You've got two people, say two men, one black, one white. Same height, weight, everything. Nine times out of ten, the black guy is given more medication because he's deemed more aggressive, not compliant. 

Dr Jeremy: Giving medication to [00:11:00] calm them down. 

Val: Makes a difference. 

Dr Jeremy: Do 

Val: see what I mean? There's labels put to people of a different class, irrespective of what. Skin colour there's a label put to particular groups. LGBTQ ethnic minorities, travelling communities, transgender communities, single parents, 

Dr Jeremy: people with learning 

Val: needs. 

Dr Jeremy: All 

Val: labels attached to each 

Dr Jeremy: groups. And I was thinking, even just like whole neighbourhoods, I remember, I had a patient who was told that they had a very long wait for mental health services, and so they asked, why is the waiting list so long? And the answer they got back was you're from a deprived neighbourhood how is that an explanation? To me, that invites a further question of why is this neighbourhood [00:12:00] deprived? If services are funded through local taxes based on the value of properties, then I suppose if you have properties that are generally not worth as much Or people not making certain amounts of income, I don't know. There's less local taxes to fund services. There isn't a common pot of money from which services get funded equally, 

Val: supposed to.

Dr Jeremy: They're supposed to. 

Val: Money comes from central government 

Dr Jeremy: If you have a centralised system, that's the way it's supposed to roll.

Val: Supposed to go in the areas that need it the most, but politics mixes everything up when Rishi Sunak was prime minister, it was known that he took money from a deprived and put it into an area that was Tory, that didn't really need it. So you have those political games, those political games. can cost lives. If you live in a deprived, quote unquote, cause that's [00:13:00] another bloody word I hate, if you live in an area that the government has not funneled enough funding into, that has left it deprived, because you have not left it deprived.

They have, and you are unfortunate to get cancer or anything else. And you were on a waiting list there's no money, no doctors, then your health will suffer more. When I had my heart attack, they were waiting at the door for me, like I'd been announced. And then you hear, I know Piers Morgan said on his show, his mother was on a trolley. And she had hers. So there is a different way you live. Now that wasn't based on skin colour. That is postcode

Dr Jeremy: money is distributed differently in areas.

Val: [00:14:00] Yeah. Where I live, I have, five hospitals. I can walk to three. One is a major cancer hospital. One is lung and heart I don't know what Chelsea West specialises in, but I use it. Hammersmith. I know it's one of the designated heart attack units in the country, which is where I went. And then Charing Cross some people don't even have one, 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah 

Val: know, so the inequalities is getting worse. So even if I was earning 100 grand a year and living in an area that had been deprived by the government of funding. I would still be waiting. No matter how much we [00:15:00] complain and moan about the NHS, which at times is justified. Also must acknowledge the good things that he does. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. With the public system, where maybe there isn't as much funding or something, there can be these kinds of delays. I think other times, really, there is a misconception about how certain services or how helpful certain things are, certainly in mental health.

I think the assumption most people have is having one to one psychotherapy is the gold standard for treatment. But maybe people can't afford it or the NHS is overstretched. One thing you can do when you don't have as much funding Or even if you're seeing someone privately and you couldn't afford it is to do a group therapy, right?

So you have one therapist in multiple multiple patients. 

Val: Not everybody wants that. 

Dr Jeremy: Everybody wants it but there's certain there's certain problems or uses for a group [00:16:00] that are, it's actually better to be in a group than to be one on one. 

Val: Yeah. 

Dr Jeremy: I run a transplant group every couple of weeks. For people who have gone through transplant or are contemplating transplant. 

Val: Yeah. And, 

Dr Jeremy: and it's really to get information and figure out changes you might need to make if you want to have a transplant, because people need to, quit smoking or lose some weight or something like that.

Okay. But. Yeah. The amount of information that, that people who've been through it before, come to the group and share with us and say, this is what you're, you can expect how much it hurts. This is how miserable you get. These are the things that you need to think about.

This is what you need to prepare for. This is what your family needs to do. They can tell you all that information way better than a therapist or someone who hasn't been through it having a group. And getting multiple perspectives from people who've been through it before is way better than, a one [00:17:00] on one session with someone.

Val: So we know that labels are shortcuts, but shortcuts often cut off the truth. Let's move on to misconceptions. 

Dr Jeremy: Sure. 

Val: In almost every case misconceptions shaped the outcome. Misconceptions about mental health, misconceptions about responsibility, misconceptions about poverty. Misconceptions about care. Misconceptions about why people fall through the gaps. And most dangerously, the misconception that if it's happening in the system, someone must be watching. 

Dr Jeremy: You mean like somebody's in control? Doing it on purpose?

Val: Say you've got Child A. In the system. You've got the school. Social [00:18:00] Services this organisation, and there's all these 

Dr Jeremy: referral pathways and safeguarding issues. 

Val: Multi agencies that are looking after these persons and each one of them thinks the other agency is doing it. Instead of somebody making the decision, nobody makes the decision. 

Dr Jeremy: Yes. 

Val: Do you see what I mean? It's like the grooming gang. They all knew. Do you? 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: It happens. 

Dr Jeremy: In psychology, we call this the diffusion of responsibility. The more people are involved the less likely someone will take action.

You may have heard of the bystander intervention effect. Social psychologists did a study where, they set up a camera and had people fall over on the sidewalk and.

And just lie there. And they wanted to see who intervenes, who checks to see if this person's okay. And what they found was if the person fell over and there was just one person around, the person is very likely going to stop and say, Hey, are you okay? But if there were, but if there was two people or three [00:19:00] people or five people or 10 people, as the number of people around goes up, everyone is less likely to actually stop.

Respond to the person because everyone, there's lots of people you look around and you're wondering, do I need to do something? But then all these, everyone you look at is looking around saying, I, I'm not doing anything. Do I need to do anything? But then you take that as your cue, like you say okay, that person's not doing anything. That person's not an emergency. Probably don't need to do anything. So you just carry on. It's 

Val: horrible because my neighbour elderly, in the late 50s, 60s, she used to be a nun. She's got epilepsy and had a seizure. outside the tube station.

Dr Jeremy: Full 

Val: outside 

Dr Jeremy: outside of it, 

Val: entrance. Anybody that knows Earls Court knows it is mega [00:20:00] busy. 

Dr Jeremy: Lots of people. She's 

Val: collapsed on the pavement, Two doors down, there's a surgery. She said no one helped her. People even stepped over her.

I couldn't believe it. Even if you didn't want to do anything, there was a surgery, a doctor's two doors. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: And a pharmacy. They left this woman who wasn't a teenager. She had one of them buns in her head. She looked like a grandmother. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I thought, if they could do that to her. 

Dr Jeremy: Yes. 

Val: Blimey! 

Dr Jeremy: Yes. 

Val: And then she said, when the seizure finished, she had to get up and go on the train. By that time, she was laughing. When she was telling me, but she [00:21:00] said the worst thing was when this guy, actually, because most of the people walked around her.

Even though they didn't do anything. She said, this one guy couldn't be bothered to do that. He stepped right over it. And she said, that was the worst feeling ever. She said, that was awful.

Dr Jeremy: That's a perfect metaphor for the point you're making. This idea that if someone is in the system with multiple inputs from the care system somebody must be taking care of it. But actually, the more people get involved They don't coordinate and make sure it's total wraparound care. Rather, it's a diffusion of responsibility. The more people involved, the less people do.

People don't watch. They just think, isn't somebody else handling that? I don't need to do anything, right? It's the same thing when people just step over somebody who's clearly in [00:22:00] medical distress in public, right? It's no one else. There's lots of people here. Not my job. Carry on. 

Val: Bad. It really is. So before we move on, would you like to say, have you learned anything from doing, have I learned 

Dr Jeremy: Absolutely. We've learned a huge amount I've learned a great deal. I've gotten more comfortable, being behind the mic. I like, I think really thinking about exploring stories in a way that is more than just, like everybody can, read their newsfeed or watch videos online or listen to the news or something.

And that's just a passive, process. It washes over you and you receive it, right? But when you have to present it analyze it think about, okay what is the label here? What's the misconception? It's a much more active process. And so I've because the two of us have brought different topics focusing on things the other wouldn't have. When you bring something I haven't looked [00:23:00] into, it forces me to actually get out and start learning about something that I didn't know about before. For example I didn't know what the care system was like in England.

Yeah. So much of the personal care needs even when people have recognized disabilities. The people looking after them, are often just family members. That's why it's called unpaid. That's why it's called unpaid, right?

Unpaid. Yeah, I didn't know so much care was being done by unpaid carers. A lot. I've learned a huge amount, what about you, have you learned? 

Val: Of course! Yeah. I've learned because I was a bit in the beginning, oh my God, I doing a podcast, Dr. Jeremy, who has a PhD and I don't have A-G-A-G-C-S-E but , one thing I've always had, I always have opinions and a lot, to say, but I was always afraid to say it out loud.

Working with you has made that easier. I have to show up because if it was on my [00:24:00] own, I was like, no, I'm not ready. Even if you have one listener we can touch that person, that means a lot to me. We share our stories and bring them to life 

Dr Jeremy: yeah. 

Val: I've learned a lot about myself. I hope people have learned about us is that they shouldn't label us and make misconceptions about us.

That on paper, if you wrote about me on paper and wrote about you on paper. People would not put us together. That's a fact. That's a given. They would think, how could these two work together? Because we're too obsessed with they don't match. But to me, that makes it better. Because we've both got different perspectives to bring to the table.

Dr Jeremy: There's a huge assumption [00:25:00] and this is not just in terms of podcasters, obviously, but just the idea that if someone doesn't share your features and qualities and identities and conditions, that person can't possibly understand you. And I think that's just plain false.

The more similar someone is, it might be easier but we're all human beings, we have a voice, we all have language, the ability to express ourselves, we all have ears, right? We can all listen and try to understand. So it might take work, and not be perfect.

But we have the capacity to understand each other more than I think often people give us, give ourselves credit for. 

Val: Yeah. 

Dr Jeremy: Right. 

Val: I think that goes with the way we are as human beings. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: I always, for all psychologists, had a rod stuck up their ass, it's true. [00:26:00] Until I met you, I thought, wow. And that's because you're not British. So it made it easier to work with you because I don't hide nothing. The things that we say before we record, you can't release we do have a laugh. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.

Val: Have a good sense of humour. And I think the language at times. But I can, I am my complete self and don't feel judged. I don't feel belittled. I don't feel my views aren't worthy. Where some people have made me feel that you have this ability I feel we are equal, 

Dr Jeremy: we are, 

Val: without being the exact match on paper. There's mutual respect to what each other brings. Of course, because obviously [00:27:00] if I approach you and said, let's do a podcast together.

I would never, say that with just anybody I knew it would work, and some people probably thought, what's he doing a podcast for? It works for us. We're both learning, which is good. We like to share our stories, bring stories to the forefront dig into politics because we both like politics. This was key for me I don't know any other podcast that actually has co hosts like this. They have me as a guest.

Dr Jeremy: Right 

Val: As a guest. But I don't know as a co host. You'll see psychologists together. People that work in health 

Dr Jeremy: no, I certainly didn't want to do that. In the same way you've had experience where people make you feel like you don't have a voice or you [00:28:00] shouldn't speak up because you don't have this or that thing. I think, what I see in the work that I do is, there's a lot of grumbling between, amongst different groups. But very rarely do, does a member from one group sit with another and actually have it out, patients and nurses or doctors and patients or carers or these groups who have gripes but share it amongst themselves and nothing gets solved.

Val: Yeah. 

Dr Jeremy: And so 

Val: exists. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. The idea that you shouldn't talk about these things with someone who isn't exactly like you is part of the problem. We need to actually 

Val: get 

Dr Jeremy: together and talk and have, and just meet each other in a place where everybody is or acknowledges that we're all equal.

Val: If there's anything I can say to any professional out there, when you want [00:29:00] to engage. with people like me and patients don't set the agenda. Give them the table, the seat at the table, 

Dr Jeremy: yeah. 

Val: Trying to think of a name, something Abrahams said, can't remember full name, said if you're not given a seat at the table. You're on the menu. And too many times we have been on the menu. We are all professionals just because you live with an illness, doesn't mean you're not a professional. You can communicate. There's no better advocate than you and professionals have to learn sometimes. A step back, don't battle as much and share that seat, to make your job easier, communicate with patients [00:30:00] better. You don't want to think, Oh God, another battle. I see you and the other doctors more than I see family. It's best I get on with you. May not always agree. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: You'll know when I don't, but I'm not rude i'm not. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: I respect that you have a job to do and it is difficult. I'm not here to make it more difficult 

Dr Jeremy: yeah. 

Val: You will hear what I've got to say.

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: That's all I ask. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, 

Val: it is a working relationship. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, and we started by talking about, what we've learned, when we talk about these things, we're trying to learn about stuff.

We're recognizing that we don't know it all, coming from different perspectives. A patient has, really in depth experience from their own experience.

It's very deep, felt experience they [00:31:00] bring a professional sees hundreds or thousands of patients. They don't, follow each patient around every moment and feel what they feel. They don't have the depth of experience, but they have the breadth,

yeah. So both sides have something to bring to the table that the other side doesn't and can learn from each other. And that's why I say, we need to come at it as equals. Because both of us have something to learn. Neither has it all figured out. 

Val: Exactly. I've been enjoying it. I've learned to edit. In the beginning, I was editing our breathings and it was bad. But, I've put my hands up, it was. It's so strange, when I go back and listen to episode one or two, it's oh my god. But there's been growth. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, I think we're getting better with the technology.

Hopefully, as time goes on, we'll get even better at that. 

Val: Yeah, I've always said, 

Dr Jeremy: we've 

Val: got the content, we've always known how we [00:32:00] wanted to deliver our work, 

Speaker 6: you 

Val: I enjoy doing the research, give me a blank piece of paper, and I will fill that with words finding the stories, finding what's going on, and trying to keep up with that.

Sometimes the day we record and it's released that story's old, but it doesn't matter. It's still going to get told, 

Speaker 6: you 

Val: This is the last until the end of January, I've got courses building out a better content. a better show for us and for you.

So it's going to be in video. You will be seeing this handsome man I have the pleasure of seeing once. 

Dr Jeremy: You're making me blush, Val. 

Val: I have to say that because your parents will listen to this. Your wife. Really, I am nice. 

Dr Jeremy: Yes, [00:33:00] absolutely. 

Val: I can't wait. I've been doodling and mapping everything out.

Dr Jeremy: Yes.

Val: Getting to grips with things. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, so we're moving to video. 

Val: And, 

Dr Jeremy: you 

Val: I am the admin. 

Dr Jeremy: I'm 

Val: admin. 

Dr Jeremy: You're the producer, editor, advertiser, coordinator. 

Val: So we will be spreading our wings be going to LinkedIn and YouTube. Eventually, we'll be doing a live. say once a month to engage. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, I hope so. I think that's been good to engage in real time. Yeah, if we can, get enough people who are interested and want to do a live session That would be a lot of fun. I really hope next year we can get more guests on because we have we had a couple of guests I think it would be fun to get more guests to talk about these things.

Val: Onwards and upwards, let's get this show rolling. 

Dr Jeremy: Okay. 

Val: And hope the whole of Canada You'll be [00:34:00] watching. 

Dr Jeremy: You think so? 

Val: He's saying, who's that woman with Jeremy? 

Dr Jeremy: Just for the record, I don't know everybody in Canada.

Val: Not the point. 

Dr Jeremy: Who's 

Val: that woman? I thought his wife was white. I'm not his wife. 

Dr Jeremy: You're my co host. 

Val: Is junkie coming over into video with us? 

Dr Jeremy: Yes. He can join us on video from time to time. He's just snoozing beside me. 

Val: I think one thing our listeners might have learned about you, . 

is that, I don't know how to say this because I know wife is gonna listen to this.

Your dog. 

Dr Jeremy: My dog. 

Val: Junkie. 

Dr Jeremy: Is the light of my life. 

Val: Is. Yeah. Your dog and then your wife. One of them comes a very close second and it ate the dog.

Dr Jeremy: Don't worry about offending my wife. You know that question if [00:35:00] two people were drowning and you could only save one, we'd both choose the dog. 

Val: No, you wouldn't!

Me? I'd be choosing my wig 

Dr Jeremy: oh 

Val: dear. I'm not sad. We're 

Dr Jeremy: excited. We're gonna come back and improve this. Of course, 

Val: of course. Yeah. 

Razzmatazz, gotta get my make up on, get my hair done. Very good. So we hope you enjoyed today and I hope you're looking forward to seeing us.

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: See if, the voices match how we look. Isn't that strange? When you've listened to someone's voice, On a podcast for so long and then you see the thing, they don't look like the voice. 

Dr Jeremy: It's funny we imagine what people look like when we hear them. But in real life, it often doesn't match what we think.

Val: It's often a disappointment. I'm [00:36:00] looking forward to that. 

Dr Jeremy: Okay. That'll be exciting Val. We'll sign off for this podcast today 

Speaker 4: and, 

Dr Jeremy: Enjoy your holidays. Have a great time with your courses. 

Val: Those of you that do celebrate Christmas, And Christmas comes, have a merry one, if you just celebrate holidays, happy holidays.

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, if people want to give us suggestions for what they would like us to talk about in the new year. Please contact us and, as Val said, 

Val: Get a different co host. I like that. 

Dr Jeremy: And as Val said, we're moving to LinkedIn. You'll catch us on YouTube at some point.

Val: Brilliant. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye.