Childhood Trauma, Healing, and Intuition with Natasha Randolph

Natasha Randolph shares her experience of growing up with instability, neglect, and abuse, alongside the early emergence in childhood of an intuitive and sensory awareness she didn’t yet have language for.

Much of Natasha’s childhood was spent without consistent adult supervision. She describes being passed between caretakers, navigating bullying, food insecurity, and abuse, and learning early how to stay quiet, adapt, and rely on herself and her sister. At school, this showed up as a stutter, difficulties with reading, and periods of withdrawal that were often misunderstood.

During the same years, Natasha began experiencing vivid dreams, sensing energy, and seeing spirits. With no guidance or framework, she searched for explanations on her own, experimenting with protection, ritual, and grounding — sometimes helpfully, sometimes not. 

Later, she walked away from a promising nursing career after recognising how deeply she absorbed others’ pain. 

Key topics

• Growing up without protection or emotional safety
• The overlap between trauma, hyper-vigilance, and intuitive perception
• Using spiritual ability as control during adolescence — and the consequences
• A crisis at sixteen that forced a choice between continuing to self-destruct or taking responsibility for healing
• Walking away from a medical career after recognising how deeply she absorbed others’ pain
• Gradually building a grounded, ethical, and legally registered spiritual practice

About: Natasha Randolph is a professional psychic medium, Usui Reiki Master, and eclectic pagan witch helping others reclaim their power on their spiritual and healing journey. Through spiritual education, private sessions, and events, she guides others to connect with their spirit team, higher self, and inner child. As the founder of Psychic Medium Natasha LLC, she empowers empaths, witches, healers, and seekers through accessible teachings and transformational experiences.

Connect at: YouTube, FB, Website

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Transcript

Preview and Intro

Regina 0:00

Thanks for joining us again on Wisdom Without the Guru. I'm your host, Regina. Now I thought I would give a little preview of the episode. So my guest this time is Natasha Randolph, and she has quite an interesting story to tell, and it's a lot of it is very mystical, but a lot of it is also some things that happen to young kids that I hope that's people who are listening will take note of and check your own children, and maybe you have younger siblings to check with them as well, because bullying can happen in all forms. So the episode is quite interesting, as I said, because Natasha really shows how she trusted herself. I mean, it took a while, but she grew into her gifts, and her gifts arrived really, really young. The fact that she now has a business that she started at quite a young age and she has people coming to her, and this is a physical business, and it's a legitimate business, it's a registered business. She has focused a career on it, and I salute her for doing that because I know how difficult it can be because, you know, I had my own holistic center when I was living in Singapore, and it it it is difficult to run. You know, you do worry about things, you worry about income, you worry about how many people are coming in, you worry about paying the rent, and you're also part of a spiritual community. And it's interesting to hear what happened to her in the spiritual community where she was because I had faced some similar things. One of the remarkable things is when you're listening to her, because of how well spoken she is, you will never guess that she stuttered when she was young. And she actually did not go to anybody, no therapist or anything, to help her get over that stuttering. She recognized it in herself and she taught herself to stop stuttering. So it's really an amazing story. This episode is for people who are really interested in the mystical, who are people who may have had experienced bullying in their life and, you know, want to connect with someone and understand maybe how they saw it. And I also think that it's for the younger generation, because I think that it gives you hope that there are people who are younger, who are striving for what they want, who are believing in their gifts, who are co overcoming things that happened to them in their childhood, and who are happy and fulfilled in what they're doing. In terms of an older generation, I know for myself, it was really refreshing to listen to her because it brought back my own memories, but it also opened up other viewpoints for me that I had never thought about as well. I do hope that you enjoy the show. If you want to show your appreciation, please do leave a comment or give us a feedback. And best of all, share the show. It can help others if you can do that. Thanks everybody and enjoy the show. Before we start, let's just ponder a couple of questions that are pertinent to the conversation that we will cover today. So let's start by asking the question: what does healing look like when the people meant to protect you are also the ones causing harm? How do you rebuild trust in others when your first lessons were betrayal and denial? What does safety mean when you've never felt it, not in your home, not in your school, or even in your own mind? And on a more esoteric side, if you started seeing spirits at age seven and had no one to talk to, what would you do with that information? Would you keep it to yourself? Would you try to share it with friends? Would you try to tell your parents? And what would they say back to you? And lastly, how do you find clarity when your gifts and your wounds are deeply entangled? Today's guest, Natasha Randolph, didn't grow up with stability. She grew up watching everything closely. People, energy, behavior, and eventually discovered she could sense what others couldn't. Today she's a mother as well as an intuitive energy reader and spiritual guide who holds space for others to discover their path of healing. So welcome to Natasha, and thank you for wanting to share your story because I think it's important for people to hear it. Yes, thank you for having me. She's a little bit nervous. Just a little bit. But I've told Natasha, and I will tell listeners also, that before I do a podcast, I'm always nervous. I mean it doesn't matter how many times I do a podcast because I always want to make sure that I tactfully ask the right questions. And sometimes the questions are ones that are related to subjects that are very deep inside the person that are traumatic and emotionally charged. But I think it's important that we do ask these questions because there are so many of us everywhere in the world who deal with these. And as the previous guest who I just interviewed said, it's good to know that you're not alone. It really is. Okay. Welcome again, Natasha. Or where are you joining us from again? I can't remember. Virginia?

Natasha 5:30

So yeah, I'm in Norfolk, Virginia. Yes.

Regina 5:33

All right. So let's start with your story, which starts with you being born in Chicago, I think. Is that correct? So yeah. So talk about a little bit about, you know, your parents because they had a very interesting way of meeting. And also just what life was like looking through the eyes of a child. Okay. We can always look back in hindsight as an adult and say, oh yes, I recognize that these things were happening. But try to place yourself through the eyes of a child and talk about, you know, what life was like, what you were seeing, what was happening to you, you know, what were your friendships like? What were the family dynamics growing up at that time?

Natasha 6:15

So yeah, I was born in Chicago, Illinois. Um, we only lived there for a year. My parents, they actually were pin pals. Um, my dad was from Indiana of the United States, and my mom was born and raised in the Philippines with her whole family there. And they were pin pals riding back and forth for a while, like for a few years or something like that. And then eventually he decided to come visit her. And then the next time he went to visit her, they got married. And when they got married, they came back to the United States. So when they married, they kind of started setting up shop in Chicago just to try to build some money. Um, and then once they felt like they had enough, we moved to Indiana, which was closer to my dad's side of the family. So while they were working and also gathering money, we could be babysat by some family. And during those early years, um it was very much just being handed off to the next caretaker since my parents were basically just kind of switching off from working shifts. That's just what was it like at the time until we eventually had enough money to move to Virginia in 2001. And I was about five at the time we moved.

Regina 7:38

And it was just you or you had the siblings?

Natasha 7:41

So I had one sibling, a younger sister. We're only 14 months apart, and we, us four, came to Virginia and they bought an actual house. Up until then, they were just like renting rooms or apartments, and then they finally gathered up enough funds to buy a house, and that's where we set up. Once we finally moved to Norfolk, um, Virginia, they bought the house. Then they were still switching off for working ships, but it was at the point where they felt like they wanted more for us than just the basics. So they started to put us off with some babysitters. Some would be co-workers or, you know, friends of my mom who worked with her. And then sometimes it would be neighbors. And for a few years, that was the ideal. It's just I would see my parents here and there, maybe when they woke up or in between, like trying to get ready for school. But for the most part, we were just handed off to other caretakers. So there wasn't really enough time to really bond with other kids or to make friends because we were just either moving or, you know, always up and going where there was just no social interactions until I really started elementary school in Virginia.

Regina 9:05

So you your parents were working some kind of shifts?

Natasha 9:08

Yeah, like by the time one would be off work, you know, one would be starting their shift. Like they would basically be working for like 10, 12 hours. So they would be working like almost the entire time. And I would just see them in passing of, okay, we gotta, I'm waking up at like four or five in the morning and I'm gonna drop you off here, and you know, and then I might see them at dinner time when we sat together as a family.

Regina 9:30

And on the weekends it was the same?

Natasha 9:32

On the weekends it was the same. They were just working nonstop at that point because they were like, well, we just got the house and we wanna be able to do more. Like we just got here, you know.

Regina 9:42

Okay. And what did you do with yourself when your parents were pretty much just leaving you to whatever it was where they were dropping you? Do you have any recollection of that?

Natasha 9:54

Yeah, I mean, it was basically just me and my sister really being so close-knit because we really just had each other and we would just try to play in our own la la land. It didn't matter if we were just like in a yard with like sticks and nothing, like we would just use our imagination. We didn't care, we had each other. Um, we would try to play with some of the kids that like the families that were responsible for us, we would try to play with them, but it was a time where they weren't really wanting to play with us or connect with us. It was almost like, okay, well, we almost like want to prank on you or bully you just for like sheer fun or just because they genuinely did not like us. So me and my sister, we would often have to like band together to fight against like these other kids, whether it was school or the these caretakers and their kids or the neighbor kids.

Bullying, abuse, and learning to stay silent

Regina 10:43

And had that anything to do with the fact that you're half Filipino, you think?

Natasha 10:48

Sometimes it was because there was times where my mom would have her co-worker friends watch us, and most of the time they were full Filipino and they had to learn English as their second language, and their children, they definitely looked at us less than because not only were we like mixed, but we did not speak the language, and oftentimes they would speak in Tagalog around us, and we could tell by the tone, and of course, by body language, that they were, of course, speaking of us, and eventually we learned to key in in certain words, be like, okay, we know they're talking about us. So that was a common thing. It wasn't all the time, but usually it was with the full blooded Filipino kids specifically. The parents wouldn't really say anything, I don't think they cared. Okay.

Regina 11:40

Now, you talk about the fact that you pretty much got left with these neighbors, and then you had some very disagreeable things happen with some of their children.

Natasha 11:53

Yeah, once we got old enough to try to express the horrible things happening with my mom's coworker friends, we were like, we don't want to go there no more. It's just so hostile, so unwelcoming. We don't want that. Can we try something else? And at that point, we were just willing to be open to anything else but because we just did not like that experience. So they were like, okay, well, there's neighbors that we talked to. You hang out with their kids. Why not we have them watch you and we pay them as your babysitter? Then you can just walk home and we can walk to, you know, we thought it was a convenient. And at first it seemed like it was a convenient, smart thing until almost as if their kids got comfortable. And it wasn't the typical bullying, like, you know, like you would think with kids, like little name calling or little bullying of, oh, you look like this or something like that. It progressed to the point of manipulation because they were older than me. And I was just so young at a point where I just didn't know certain things. And they would try to convince me to do explicit things without really understanding and make it almost like, well, if you don't do these things, there's consequences. And if you speak of these things, there's consequences. And I was kind of trapped in that for a little bit before we kind of stood up for ourselves again and said, we also don't want these neighbor kids.

Regina 13:29

So you when you say explicit, you mean sexually explicit?

Natasha 13:33

Unfortunately, yes. Very much so. Just more so of do this and then I'll do that. It would escalate from kissing to explicit touching and going further. And I at the time I just didn't really know whether that was good or bad or not, but it was so hush hush, I could tell something was wrong or off.

Regina 13:55

And you never thought to speak to the parents of those kids that were doing that?

Natasha 14:01

So we tried, my sister tried. She tried to say, she tried to speak up, but it was almost like the parents were in such disbelief of, oh, I know my child, they're not like that. Oh no, you're just making up stuff now. And it got to the point where, like, okay, if we can't convince the parents and our parents don't believe us, then we just felt kind of trapped in that.

Regina 14:25

So it was both you and your sister that it was happening to?

Speaker 14:29

Well, she was getting more of the bullying side. For some reason, I was more so singled out for the explicit stuff, the manipulation stuff. I don't know if it's because I was just slightly older or if they just wanted a ity mini miny mo. I'm not sure how that worked out, but that's the way it went.

Regina 14:48

And how did you talk about this between sisters? I mean, so did you sort of come up with a plan how you could avoid these things, or, you know, talk about what was happening and how you felt about it?

Natasha 15:01

So I could only tell her so much because I didn't really know what was completely going on. All I knew was like, hey, these sisters keep pulling me to the side to do these things, and I just feel like something's wrong, like this is not right, and they're making me feel like I'm gonna be punished if I'm not doing these things because they were already bullying us and trying to take away food, like little weird things, little bullying tactics to like intimidate us. So there was times where we would just try to stay together, being like, oh no, she can't go with you, she's with me, or no, we're gonna be out here with your mom, or you know, like we would just try these weird things where we just could not be alone, like we would cannot be separated. And that helped for a little bit until we just basically said we don't want to go over there no more. And tell our parents is basically let us stay at home while they were working.

Regina 15:53

Okay. And I I know you mentioned that you said that when you would go over to some of these places, the safest time would be actually when you were eating.

Natasha 16:00

That was the safest point, is just please let it be dinner time, please let it be lunch or snack or something. Because at that point, everyone as an adult, at that, I feel like that day and age, that culture was just when it's when it's time to eat, everyone's gathering at the table, and then y'all may disperse and do whatever. So when no matter who was caregiving or whatever, it was always time to just sit at the table. And by that point, you're being watched. Like those kids are being watched by their parents, so they know they have to keep up their act or their show or that brave face. So that was the best time for us because at least that 30 minutes or 40 minutes was just, okay, we're here. We don't have to worry about, you know, anything dangerous or scary or unexpected happening.

Violence at home and the impact on trust

Regina 16:48

You also mentioned that because your mom was working so much, she was pretty much burned out and she would lash out at you. And so there was also physical violence happening at your home.

Natasha 17:00

Yeah. My parents were working so hard. My dad had his own vices when he would not be working to death, he would be drinking to death and then passing out in the garage. And then my mom, when she was not working to death and she had a moment, she would definitely try to sleep, but sometimes she would not fall asleep immediately. And of course, me being a child, I'd maybe want to tell her about my day or want to hang out with her or something. And there would be moments where I would not understand how exhausted she was, or maybe she was just so overstimulated, overwhelmed, where it not registered to me. I'm just like, hey, I want to connect with you. You're my mom. I barely see you, and this is my chance. And then I would come up to her and she would either verbally scream or use physical violence as a term of, hey, no, no, no, like you just to try to set me in her place or get it to a point where I can get out of her face, shoo, shoe, and then she could return back to sleep or do whatever. And that was a constant thing throughout childhood and teenage years, where I just learned just to stay away because if she wanted me, she would find me.

Regina 18:04

So you kind of had to fend for yourself.

Natasha 18:07

Absolutely. Because at that point, because at that point, me and my sister were basically raising ourselves. Like we didn't have necessarily like mentors to teach us specific life skills or tell us why things were the way they are. Our parents were just so checked out, whether that was a physical thing or they just were not physically, you know, like there or mentally, they're just gone. So I didn't really have anyone to even ask about like puberty stuff, let alone like, hey, this is happening at school. You know, it was just more of okay, well, they're keeping us alive. And, you know, that was basically it. Like, okay, you're alive, you're clean, you know, and that was it. Like that was enough for them.

Regina 18:48

Yeah, you talked about your mom hit you with a vacuum cleaner once when you were 10 years old.

Natasha 18:53

That's definitely one of my worst memories because I was just eight. Yeah, I was eight. And I remember I wanted to just tell her something. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I walked up to her. She was about to lay on the couch to like take a nap, I believe, before a work shift. And then she just without no warning, she was just so upset that I would try to disturb her sleep that she took one of those fat old vacuum cleaners, like like the ones that are like from the 80s or like the 90s, the fat ones, not slender, not lightweight. You have to plug it in the wall, and it has like that bag where it's like big and flat. She took the whole thing and she literally bopped me on the head, like the whole, and I remember it hit me so hard. I just, I literally just like crawled away, like basically. I just like like scurried away into my room. I told my sister, and that was the moment it really clicked for us that we could not go to my mom for anything. Because we were like, yo, like it escalated beyond just like, oh, a little slipper or um or a wooden spoon or just yelling. It was full-blown, like violent and just like very harsh. Like it felt like really attack mode where it was so shocking. So yeah, I immediately told my sister after that happened, and we just both agreed that we would just have to stick to ourselves and learn for ourselves, but we kind of gather information together and share it amongst ourselves from that point.

Regina 20:34

Were you able to talk at any to anybody at school? I mean, did your school know this was happening? Because you know, sometimes when kids come into school and they've obviously been not eating well at home or something, hopefully it's some teacher that notices it.

Natasha 20:48

So eventually the school notices something's going on at home because by the time I was 10, my mom had her last child, my little brother. And because they were still working the way that they were and operating the way that they were, they were actually leaning on me and my sister to care for this newborn when we were, I think, in third or fourth grade ourselves, and we started falling asleep in class. And our teacher said, Um, girls, you need to stay up. And we're like, I'm sorry, we're just so tired. We didn't get any sleep. And they were like, Whoa, this is not right. So they take us to the guidance counselor, they get us just to talk. We don't think nothing of it. And then um, CPS is called. They go to my dad's work, they talk to my mom at home. By the time we come home, my mom sets aside, like comes to me and my sister's side and said, What did y'all do? And basically come to find out the principal contacts my parents and says, they are not responsible. For babysitting their little brother, their infant brother. They are children. They need to be awake for school. So then my parents had to change the way that they were working because they basically got caught. Then my parents started finding, they were still switching off, but they found some type of buffer system where there was still some time in the day where she was home more. So that was easier. I don't know if it was either she was part-time from full or what, but they had to switch it up because they knew they couldn't get away with this because they had eyes from CPS until they deemed, okay, they're not trying to pass this to the kids and then they went away.

Regina 22:50

Let me interrupt right here because CPS is Child Protective Services, correct?

Natasha 22:55

Yes.

Stuttering, school struggles, and repeating second grade

Regina 22:56

Yeah, okay. Just for anybody, because you know, acronym land out there, we don't always know what it is. Understood. But there's something else that was happening to you because you also, um let's see, you developed a stutter. No, what was it? Yeah. I You started stuttering. And what was that? When did that start? And what do you think that was a result of? And did anybody notice it and try to help you out with it?

Natasha 23:23

Oh yeah, people definitely noticed because I was choking on my words and I would get stuck on specific like T H or S or P's, like you know, things like that. So it was from the time I was five to seven, actually, that whole time I was just so badly stuttering, and I and looking back in hindsight now, I understand it more as because in those early years we were just so passed off and all these bad things were happening to us, I was really struggling, communicating, like effectively, and even knowing what to say, let alone how to say it. And it took me time for me to say, you know what, I really hate stuttering. I need to find some way to not stutter. And the only way I got through it, it was not no speech teacher or nothing like that, nothing offered at school. I had to literally just learn how to speak very slowly, and I mean like stupid slowly, and then be able to speak faster and until the point where I could just speak like this. But I had to teach myself essentially how to re like rework that out. Um, because part of it was nerves, and then part of it was I really did have to learn how to use my voice.

Regina 24:42

Well, the interesting thing was is that you said it also affected your reading.

Natasha 24:46

It did. It got to the point where because at that point, the reading and talking was the same to me because it was words, whether you're looking at it or hearing it. I I didn't have people to talk to, you know, like I just I wasn't exposed to looking at the words, having people to talk to, me speaking, using my voice. So by the time we moved to Norfolk and we had the house and we finally got like in school for like first, you know, kindergarten, first grade, and all that, they started to realize at school that I was actually struggling with retaining the words and trying to spell it and reading out loud. And eventually I had to repeat the second grade because not only was I just spacing out and daydreaming to like disassociate, but just also I was struggling with the reading and um writing, which was a big portion at the time of your grade um in those early development years. You had to know how to be able to do that. So they were like, Yeah, we she needs to repeat the second grade. And my parents said, Okay, if that's what she needs, and it was the best thing, but we didn't, they didn't know how bad it was until the teacher said, yo, they have she has to repeat.

Regina 25:58

And what was happening with the kids at school? Were you getting along with the kids at school, or were you and your sister pretty much withdrawn into yourselves because of everything that was happening?

Natasha 26:08

So because I was one grade ahead of her at that time, um, we were in different grade levels and we were split up. So when I was in class, I was to myself. I wasn't playing or hanging out with the kids. They were very much like kind of mean to me and stuff. And at that point, I didn't know how to really put myself out there to make friends, let alone connect, because I've never really had that. So um I do contribute that to me also failing because I didn't have any system in place, you know, let alone an openness to ask them, like, hey, how like how do you do this? You know, I didn't have that. So when I did fail, me and my sister were actually on the same grade level then. And I realized those kids, they they were very nice and open and welcoming. And once we were on the same grade level, sometimes we would also be in the same class. So then when my sister would be in my class, I would be like, Yay, we're together, and people would think we're twins. Because at that time we were, we looked so alike, and we also had the same haircut, which did not help, but it was nice.

Regina 27:14

So you had to repeat second grade.

Natasha 27:17

Yes, I did. But it actually turned out for the better because we were okay then. Yeah. Once I had to repeat, it just allowed me to have a new set of kids to connect with, where for some reason I felt like it was okay because they were very open, like they had a different type of attitude. They were not standoffish because when I joined my grade level, it was in the middle of the year when we moved. So they were very like, that's the new girl. But when I had to repeat the second grade, I started with everyone else. And they were like, Hey, who are you? And so it was a completely different atmosphere. And then I also got to repeat the knowledge, and at that point I was speaking better, and I was actually trying, and I wanted to have effort to, you know, be able to speak and stuff. My sister sometimes would correct me, like, oh, you say it like this. And I'm like, Oh, okay. So it was much better.

Regina 28:14

Okay. And so you were actually trying to spend a lot of time at school as well because they fed you.

Natasha 28:21

Yeah. Um before my brother came around, and it was just me and my sister, um, and we stopped going to the babysitters. My parents were just always at work and stuff that um sometimes they would kind of forget, or like they just wouldn't go grocery shopping as regularly as they should. So, you know, we were still hungry kids, growing kids, and we would often try to find any excuse to stay after school because oftentimes the teacher or the school itself had like some type of snack or meal or something set aside for that activity or that club or whatever whatever that was. And um, sometimes we also get extra credit. So it also helped with grades, but we would mostly stay for the food. Um, after a while, when it would get to like summer, like type of stuff where there was no after-school thing unless you were in summer school, we would start depending on going to um friends' houses once we were able to ride bikes, to go to like local, like maybe around the block a friend, like a student that also went to the same school with us. We would go to their house and they would feed us too. Because um, our parents just, again, were checked out, not physically there, and they would not regularly buy groceries. So you got to do what you gotta do. We were just like, we gotta find food some some way. We don't know how to use a microwave, we don't know how to use a uh a stove. There's not even food to put together. Like, how do you make a meal with a cracker and some mustard? Like, no, like so. We had to find some something.

Regina 29:47

Okay. So let's move on to the fact that you discovered that you had some kind of psychic ability at age seven. So what happened?

Natasha 29:59

So when I was seven, that's when I discovered that I was able to do things that others, but it it started for me with a dream. I had a dream that I was visited by like this white, this big white light, this presence. Like it was almost like a light, like a body of light, but there was like no face. It was like a silhouette, if that makes sense, of a body, but pure light. And I just remember thinking, I have no idea what's happening, what's going on, where am I at, but I don't feel like I'm in danger. And I know what danger felt like in my body because that was such a familiar thing to me. So I was like, I don't know what's happening, but I'm okay. And as I was looking at this like light body, I started to have all these big words be almost like downloaded in my mind. And at that time, I was at that struggling stage of stuttering. I could not speak very much at all, let alone like read and like remember those like long big words. So immediately when I woke up from this dream, I wrote like these words down. I was like, this is weird. I'm seeing this stuff in my sleep. What does this mean? And when my dad would pass out in the garage after drinking, I would sneak on to his computer that would be open, and I would just look up these long words into Google. And I was like, okay, meditation, clerovoyance, channeling. And I'm like, what is this stuff? You know, I like I I remembered almost like a photographic memory of what the words looked like in my mind. So I was like, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna type it exactly how I remember it. And it led me to the spiritual aspects of what I was experiencing, and then it just kind of became like um a snowball domino effect, just going down the rabbit hole of so this is what's happening, or this is why it happens. Because at that time, I didn't have anyone to tell me this stuff. I really just kind of fell into it, and then I started looking for my own answers as I was having more experiences.

Regina 32:13

And did you talk to your sister about it?

Natasha 32:16

Not at first. At first, I remember thinking, okay, this stuff's kind of different. What if I'm crazy? I don't want her to become crazy. I'm convincing her that let me let me hold off. Let me see if this is really real. Let me try to figure some things out. And then they got to a point where I was like, okay, this stuff is real. I can try to tell her, let's see. I have no idea what she'll say. And I was so scared because I was just thinking, for some reason, the worst case scenario, like, oh, she's gonna think this is crazy or prove it, or you know, something. But no, she was completely like, okay, I believe you. And I'm like, really? And she's like, yeah, I'm here for you. And then I finally realized that I could console in her and vent to her about this stuff, even though she was not having firsthand experiences, she could tell how I was being affected. And she'd be like, What's wrong? And I'm like, I'm seeing some stuff, and you know, like she would really try to help me go through it. And especially for the years where I was really starting to see spirits for the first time and I didn't know how to like protect my own energy. I would sneak into her room and she'd be like, What? And I'm like, please, can I sleep with you? And then after a while, she actually started saying no because it was like an every night thing. She's like, I need some sleep, and I would be so terrified. But she was as there for me as best as she could, absolutely, especially when it comes to like, okay, I don't know what's happening, but I'm here for you.

Regina 33:44

And did you ever speak to your mom? Because you I think you mentioned that your mom does believe in spirits and reincarnation and was somewhat open-minded.

Natasha 33:54

That wasn't until like late teenage years, because at that point I still had the firm idea of you can't go to her for nothing.

Regina 34:03

Okay. And did you tell anybody at school that you were seeing all these things? Because you know, kids, they kind of like that kind of stuff.

Natasha 34:11

So I had that idea when I was in fourth grade. I was thinking, you know what? Maybe I could tell my best girlfriends at the time because we're supposed to be the best of friends, and hopefully, you know, they won't reject this. Like for some reason, I felt like I really wanted to tell them. Well, what I didn't know was that there's like there's like a group, there's like three of them. Okay, we were like a group of four together, but there were three girls. And one of them was more like the leader, and the other two were more like her followers, but we were all friends. And the leader of the group apparently was into this stuff too. And I just had no idea. She just wasn't telling us. So I was like, oh, okay, well, how about we all come over, have a sleepover? And long story short, we all just eventually became like a little coven where we had like our little composition notebooks, and we were writing like these little spells and stuff like that. Well, eventually it started becoming more niche click where them three were really against me or they were wanting out. And I was like, wow, y'all were not serious. Because like eventually they were kind of upset at me that I was so serious about this, because I really was, and they weren't. They were more of like the fun of it or like bored or like intrigued, but they weren't seriously practicing like I was.

Regina 35:23

How old were you at this stage?

Natasha 35:25

At this stage, I was nine, 10. I was around there, right before my brother came around, but still, yeah. It was fourth, fifth grade.

Regina 35:36

I'm gonna be very honest. Do you know how odd it is for me to hear that an eight or nine-year-old was seriously practicing? I know. Which I was doing. I made it so serious. Where did you even get the spells and the information about witchcraft from to be doing well?

Natasha 35:54

So it started with the the dream, the big words, which led me to, oh, well, there's this practice and this, like once because I would find these articles online or like these websites, and I'd be like, oh, interesting. But then once I discovered I had my own abilities and I was looking up questions about these abilities, then I started to discover a lot of this stuff was rooted in um spiritual practices itself or actual witchcraft that just had explanations for why things were they were. So I taught myself a lot of more so traditional basic witchcraft to have an understanding of this stuff. And then I started just unintentionally forming my own practice. So it just kind of became like a self-discovery, I guess.

Fear, protection, and early spiritual experimentation

Regina 36:43

And when you say your own practice, what were the types of things that you were doing?

Natasha 36:47

So, first I learned more about um about the different energies at play, like, oh, the energy of the land or the trees and crystals and plants and stuff, but there's also the moon, the sun, the weather. You know, like I learned about how those have their own energies and how that may come at play or how those could be utilized. And then I realized that um, you know, because we're in the physical realm, people like to tie into like the basic elements of earth, air, fire, water. Some people in other traditions also incorporate wood and metal metal as well. But there's like raw elements. And I was focusing on those basics and learning how to cast a circle and set protection for myself. So like that's how it started, was like those basics, and then it just progressed to be, oh, well, if I could do this, then I can build and build and build, and what more could I do for myself and things like that.

Regina 37:43

Were you checking out tarot decks at that point? Or at that point, no, the funds as a kid at that time.

Natasha 37:50

Yeah, at the time I had no funds. I didn't even have no um uh allowance or anything like that, you know. So um at that point, it was just more so I just have my experiences and I'm just trying to find out as much information as I can while also I was unintentionally, unknowingly building my practice at the same time. It wasn't until I had like my first job as a teenager to be able to buy little tools or things like that.

Regina 38:18

Did you ever have anything that was a bit scary happen to you as a kid when you were doing this?

Natasha 38:25

Yeah. Right around 10, 11, I realized that when I would go to sleep at night, I would basically be astral traveling, which simply means that when your body is physically asleep, your like astral body is what they call it, your energy body is leaving your physical vessel and kind of traveling around. Well, that's when I discovered because it was happening every night, and I didn't know why it was happening. I was kind of scared because I realized when I would leave my body at night, there would be like some spirits watching my body. And then I would, it's almost like I would be journeying somewhere else. And then I would feel a pull towards my body, and then I would go to my body, and then I would see the spirit, and it would freak me out because I'm like, oh gosh, what are they trying to do to me? I need to hurry up and get back in my body. And um it would scare me because after a while, I was thinking, oh, I haven't seen it in a while. I cut I got my guard down, and then eventually would I realized it was trying to like jump in my body. So when that kept happening, I realized, okay, I need to somehow protect my body while I'm sleeping so that way I don't have this fear and I can actually like have some way to prevent and have like a barrier or something.

Regina 39:38

So, what did you do as a kid? What did you do as a put up as a barrier?

Natasha 39:42

So, as a kid, at that time, I actually had a pen pal myself, which probably sounds dangerous now, but I actually saw as a godsend at the time. She was actually my mentor at the beginning. She helped me understand more of how to focus on channeling, but she gave me my first crystal. Um, she was a pen pal from Michigan, and she sent me an amethyst necklace. She said, I feel like this would be really good for you just to protect yourself. And I was at the time I didn't know anything about it. So I remember I like put it under some running water to cleanse it, and I prayed over it, and then I would just wear it all the time. And I saw that that was helpful, so then that started getting me more curious about crystals, but it was that gifted, almost like amulet I didn't know at the time where it helped me kind of with the sleeping and being able to protect myself and stuff like that.

Regina 40:38

How did you get a pen pal who had this kind of esoteric background? I mean, was there a place that you look to see interests? I want this pen pal because they have this interest. I mean, I used to have pen pal years and years and years ago.

Natasha 40:52

So at the time, um, my my again, I would use my dad's computer like when he would be passed out. So I would just, I at the time I was using Yahoo answers a lot. I don't know if you remember that, but um, that was a big thing back then. And I would definitely be either answering questions about like spiritual stuff or reading other people's questions about it because I was curious what other people were asking about it too, to see if you know, we were all wondering the same thing because I was really deep into like the research stage at that time. And then I realized that um after a while, I started kept connecting with one specific individual. So we just kind of exchanged emails and eventually we progressed to like talking on the phone all the time. And because my parents were always working, um, they weren't even really aware of it until I was like 11, 12. And at first my dad would be dead against me because he's like, you know, the danger, stranger danger. This could be like someone pretending to be a woman, something like that, you know, which was completely real and valid. But at the time I was like, you know what, you're never around. How dare you tell me? You know what I mean? I was just so whatever with him. I was like, I don't want to hear this stuff. But um thankfully it wasn't that case because that definitely could have been that case for anyone else, like no, in normal circumstances, but I felt like we were really led to each other.

Using intuition as control — and the cost of it

Regina 42:06

Yeah. So you said that you started using your gifts in your teenage years pretty much to manipulate people. So why did you do that? And and how did you do that?

Natasha 42:21

So by the time I was 11, 12, I had a really good grip and honing on my own gifts. Because at that time I was practicing, like, like like when kids were done doing their homework at school, they would go play with other kids. And I was practicing my gifts. Like I was mastering them. And once I realized of the, you know, of the control I had over them, then I started realizing I was like, you know what? For some reason, the idea came to my mind as a preteen. I was like, I can rewrite myself. I don't have to be this scared little version of me that I've always been as a kid. I can literally be anything I want. So I was like, why not? And at that time, I was just so angry at the world. I'm not even gonna lie. I just kind of wanted to soothe my own pain. But the only way to hate that back then was to kind of inflict it on others. And at first it was guys because they were at the stage where they would notice she would try to flirt. I also kind of hated guys at the time because of just daddy issues against. So I would feel their energy, like I would feel their um emotions or their thoughts. And then just from picking up on my stuff, I can tell like what their soft spots were, their weaknesses, or what they really like yearned for and what they really wanted. So I would really use the manipulation game and basically use like their energy as a cheat sheet to be like, oh, okay, this this is what this is what they would really lean to, or this is what they're a soft spot with, or they don't like, you know, like I would have all of that information. So I would just be like, okay, well, what what do I want with you? You know, what can you do for me? And I would just, you know, either. You know, do like my own entertainment by kind of inflicting like my own little bullying or suffering on them, which I thought was entertaining, or I would just like try to use them for my own personal gain in some way. And then I would toss them to the side and it would just be that way for a while. Because at that time I was like, I didn't trust people to really let them in to be friends. So to me, everything was just surface level anyway. I didn't want people to get really good to know me. I didn't want to get to know them. It was just more of what can you do for me and what do I want with you? You know? So at that point it was really dark for me. Because at the time I was thinking, well, I finally have control. I know what I'm able to do. Maybe this can be my cheat sheet. And at the time, I was in a dark, angry place, and that's where it went.

Regina 44:44

Yeah, and I'm curious, did it you backfire on you? Because you know, you can't what when you use this kind of energy in witchcraft or whatever you want to call it in such a way, you usually have a backlash at some point.

Natasha 44:57

I feel like the backlash was when I finally decided I wanted to get close to people. I chose the wrong people because at that point I wasn't using my cheat sheets no more. I was using my hopes or ideas of them and trying to trust what they said instead of focusing on what I already was sensing and what I could know of that. I really wanted to trust them and I really wanted it to be something else, and hopefully it could have changed, or, you know, like I at the time you just have such an idealistic, hopeful, rose-colored glass view of relationships, whether it was romantic or friendship. So I would really put myself in these groups or with these people that more so wanted to do, more so wanted me, either to claim me or wanted something from me. And I feel like to me, in hindsight, that was the backlash because then I was having the tables turned on me where they weren't looking at me as a person. They were looking at me as either their thing or what are you really good at that either makes me feel better or or your name comes with this, you know, different things like that. So after those horrible experiences, I had to learn, okay, I have to navigate with this. That's this is what it's for. Did anybody realize that you were manipulating them in this way? No. And I mean, not during those times. They were like, by the time I had my good honing and I was doing all that, I feel like they were almost like so desperate, if that makes sense, like for me. Or they were just so much like wanting to believe in me. Like, like they did, it's almost like they were making excuses for me and other things like that. So unfortunately, no, not at that time for them.

Regina 46:49

And you said that also you were experimenting with like intentions and herbs as well. Were you doing it? Oh, like in my own, sir, yeah.

Natasha 46:59

Like my own witchcraft. Yeah, like I was, but not necessarily like on other people, just more so like what are things that I'm able to do beyond just protecting myself? Like, what are some things that is possible that I could see if I'm able to do? And it would branch off to stuff like either manifestation or cleansing, maybe trying to help a spirit cross over. Like it just progressed beyond just the basics.

Regina 47:26

And did you ever read or come across anything that you thought, what the heck is this? And that's just a bunch of BS.

Natasha 47:35

There was something like that. For for me, I'm not gonna call it BS because it just didn't resonate, I guess is the best way I should say. But I feel like when you first get into witchcraft, you first question if you're either Pegan or Wiccan or just not, you're just a witch. And at first I was thinking because it was just so popular at that time, everyone was trying to claim that they were Wiccan. Maybe it was because of charm to the show. I don't know. But um, at first I thought maybe I was until I realized just by my own personal beliefs that not everything resignated as they would practice as the religion, because it is a religion um itself. So then I realized, okay, I'm not Wiccan. So to me, I was like, okay, well, it's just like Christianity in a way. Like it's not like wrong, but it's not my path. So that's when I learned I was like, okay, well, that's not for me. And then I realized I was more so pagan because there's different branches of paganism, but the general idea of it resonated of, oh, we honor the cycles and rhythms of nature, and like astrologically, like that timing and you know, celebrating life within those seasonal shifts, and you know, like that itself, I realized I really leaned on more, and then I started going deeper into that.

A crisis at sixteen and a forced turning point

Regina 48:55

Now, you had a crisis and turning point when you were 16 that happened with your best friend and boyfriend.

Natasha 49:04

The darkest day of my life, yeah. So I had a best friend at the time, where about two months, of course, and she had a thing for my man, which I did not know. And my boyfriend, he literally texted me, being like, Hey, meet me at the boardwalk. So I walk to the boardwalk from my house, and then I see him there, and I'm like, at first, I'm thinking, oh, I'm so excited to see him. I miss him. And then right from behind him is my friend. Like, she walks in, like, she like he's standing there, she's hiding behind him, and then she's all of a sudden appears from behind him and stands in front of him. And I'm like, Oh, hey, what's up? And then eventually he says, Yeah, I'm breaking up with you. The friend's like, Oh gosh, I didn't want to do it like this. And I'm thinking, what's going on? And then basically they say, like, oh yeah, we're together. And I'm like, Oh, so y'all were doing this behind my back. And then, long story short, eventually, after he literally broke my heart, he wanted my friend to basically beat me up right then and there. And then she was like, What? But why? And then, right as like she turned to him and he was like trying to convince her, I ran as fast as I could back home. And then they started chasing me. They were chasing me with all their might. So we're all kids with good lungs and a and a good heart, running as fast as we can. And I'm bigger than them, so I'm like, huh, I feel like a little piggy running from the big bad wolf. And I'm just like, huh, huh, like racing. Then I get to the side door of the garage. I walk to the door right behind me, and then I can see their faces on the other side of the glass saying, Come on, please let us in. We won't hurt you. Just let us have some water, please. It was so weird because you would think that at that point I would just like, you know, tell them to go away, but I don't even remember what they said, but they were just trying to guilt trip me to open the door. And I just remember feeling so emotionally low. I did not care no more. I let them in. They were eating so many things out of my fridge, being nasty, like just grabbing stuff with their hands, shoving in their face, drinking like water, laughing in front of me. Like they were savage. And right as they're like laughing and eating and stuff in their face and drinking their water and stuff, and I just I go to the bathroom and I find the two biggest pill bottles I can find. I remember one was aspirin, and the other one I don't even know. It was some prescription, something for my dad, some horse pills. And I just remember just knocking them both down just from the bathroom sink and just like just swallowing as many as I could. And all of a sudden, ex-boyfriend barges in the bathroom said, Oh my god, she's trying to kill herself. And then um they fucking rush out of there. Like they they're fucking terrified. And then little did I know, they're actually hiding in the backyard, I guess, wondering to see if I'm gonna drop dead because they felt guilty or something. And I just remember feeling really sleepy. I started feeling really heavy and sleepy, so I laid down on like the pullout sofa at the time in the living room, and I fell asleep and I wasn't expecting to wake up until I did. I woke up hours later at some point, because like it was night time, and I remember hearing a knock at the window where the kitchen was. I somehow was able to manage enough strength to stand up and look out the window, and it was ex-boyfriend saying, He looked at me, and I was like all weird and heavy and stuff, like like half dead. And he looked at me, he said, You should be dead right now. And then he left with her, and I never saw him ever again or heard from him ever again. And then I drank a cup of water, and then I passed right back out on that pull-out sofa. You had an experience as well while you were yeah, once I was asleep and I was hoping to just never wake up, I remember that I was floating, floating above my body where the couch was, and I was thinking, this is happening. I'm I'm dying. And at first I was relieved, but then as I was floating, I felt almost like somebody thumps your forehead, like boop, like stop. Like I just remember thinking, what happened? And like I just stopped rising up, floating, and I felt this bop on my forehead, and then I heard this voice in my mind, not even outside of my ears, but like in my mind saying, Oh no, you still have a lot more work to do. And then I remember being pushed down really, really fast back into my body, and then that's when I woke up and heard the knock on the window, and it shook me to my core because that's when I realized that I it almost felt as if I wasn't allowed to die. And I remember feeling so angry because I was like, What's the point of this life? Like, I I've had nothing but horrible things happen to me at this point. Like, there's nothing worth like like that's what I was thinking. But once I was booked back down, I was like, Oh, you have a lot of work to do. I had this feeling or like this knowing in my body of it's not your time yet. There's something you came here to do. And then the next day, I just remember because I knew in my mind, I was like, okay, I can't like tap out. I have to actually try to heal from this point. I don't want to be this angry, sad person no more. And that's when I started to dedicate myself for my healing journey because I was like, I don't want to be a bitter adult or, you know, like I knew that this was a turning point. And that's when I started to choose, I guess, better for myself. So I started blank slate from my social circle and choosing things to like actually heal my body because I really messed up my stomach when I did that. I had to heal my stomach. I developed ulcers because I was also stressed and like not eating properly, and then I did all those pills. So I had to start healing my stomach, eating right, and then trying to do more of the emotional healing stuff.

Regina 55:17

What happened then when you finished high school? Because I think you wanted to go into a nursing program, if I remember correctly.

Natasha 55:26

So, my senior year of high school, they offered this uh votechnical program for students that were willing to take this entry exam. And if you passed, then you were basically eligible to join the program. And it was a big opportunity because at that point they were willing, it was a two-year program where the first year you would become a certified nursing assistant, and then the second year you would be a licensed practical nurse. So you were skipping like a tuition for you know college and like so much stuff. Like this was like a like a big bank for your buck. Like this was like, in my eyes, like a miracle thing. I was like, wow, I have this big opportunity. I should like it sounded like such a smart thing. And my parents were so encouraging of it because they were both in the medical field. And they're like, yes, yes, you could basically write your paychecks. Like this is smart. So I passed the entry exam. Some people didn't, some people I knew did, but like not everyone did. And I was accepted in. So at that point, I was going to school, also going to work, but also doing like this nursing program. And for a while, I did love it because I loved the anatomy and physiology of it until we started moving towards hands-on clinical training, which is when they take these students to go to these facilities like nursing homes and hospitals and things like that, where we can practice our vitals and um taking care of these patients, being some extra hands for the actual nurses on staff. So at first I was excited to learn the hands-on, thinking, oh, I would love to learn how to take a pulse and different things. But I started realizing that as I was getting older and also just practicing my gifts so regularly, my gifts were also becoming heightened, more sensitive, more stronger. And as I was touching these patients and being around them, and I was in these spaces like the hospital and the hospice areas, I started to pick up on more than just, oh, these smells. I was able to notice, oh, I can feel these memories and these emotions from these patients. I can feel their physical pain in my own body as I'm like, as I'm walking down this hallway. I can tell this person has um their right hip is hurting because I'm feeling it in mine. It got to a point where I was like, you know what, this is very hard on me physically because I'm able to pick up on all these things that no one else is being affected by. And this is a big part of the work. You have to be around these people. They're not always going to be physically well because that's why they're seeing your care. And I just felt in my spirit that I could not be deeply involved in that work as a career because the way that I was operating, like, you know, as a person, this would wear me down. This would take pieces away from me. And this would not be a career that I would feel proud to put the years into because I would feel like I would be chipping away. So at the very end of the program, right before we were taking our tests to basically be certified and move on to the next level, I just never showed up. I basically forfeited it. My parents, they were so angry thinking, you're throwing this away. What are you going to be doing with your life? You're not even going to be going to college. What are you going to do? And I was so terrified, but I knew in my spirit that this was not the way because I could just not simply do that work and still be functioning normally for me.

Regina 59:04

And did you try to explain to them that you could sense and feel all of this stuff?

Natasha 59:09

So at that point, I did try telling my mom. Because at that point, I was 18 and I was thinking, I don't give a crap if she's happy with it or not. I'm gonna just speak my two cents and she can just think I'm crazy. So I would start talking about this stuff in front of her. And at first she did think I was definitely crazy because she was like, oh no, stop it. You're like, she would just think I'm making excuses or just saying whatever, like just to see if like I can pull, like it was a funny thing that I could see if I could convince her and think she is crazy. But eventually she started to realize that um I would be able, I would be saying things that would be coming true. She was like, oh my gosh, Tasha, you were right. So eventually she came around, but she definitely didn't agree with me at first. She was just more open to it because she's definitely more spiritual than the traditional Catholic Christian that Filipinos usually are. Even though she was raised that way, she also has like more openness towards reincarnation and believing that spirits like ancestors are trying to talk with us like through butterflies and stuff. So she believed in that. So I was hoping that would be the leeway to be able to tell her other stuff, but it took her own timing for sure.

Regina 1:00:22

And so after that, what did you do?

Natasha 1:00:25

After the nursing thing, and I was 18, I just wanted to get the heck out of home. I didn't want to be there. Um, I basically just started working, like, you know, these part-time jobs that were just available, and I was just trying to stack my money and have fun and be away from home as much as possible because it didn't feel like home no more. I felt like I was an adult and wanted to be free. I was just constantly working and just not at home. And it got to the point to where one day my mom um made fun of one of my friends, which to me I considered a brother at the time. And I just remember standing up, I was like, you know what? He's been there for me more than you've ever. Like, he was actually there for me and he's family, and you never are. Like, I was speaking like that. So she was like, Oh, yeah, you feel that way. You should just move out. So I did. I had no game plan. I was only making the paychecks I was currently working at with like my little dairy queen job or Dollar Tree. You know what I mean? Like, I was just working like these basic jobs that were I could just ride my bike to. I moved out. I moved into a mutual friend's house, like a friend of my friend. I rented a room basically and stayed with them and just kept working my job and just trying to have fun and all that until I met my partner.

Regina 1:01:38

So, what did your partner think about all these strange practices that you did? Did he um agree with them or did he know what they were? Did he even have an idea or did he run for the hills when he saw your first set of crystals?

Natasha 1:01:52

So at first I really didn't want to tell him because I wouldn't, I didn't, I was I guess I was worried about the idea of ruining anything because it was still new and fresh. And I at up at that point, I didn't really disclose to any of like my partners like romantically, like I was into that at all. So that was nerve-wracking. But once I realized that he was into like the fantasy part of it, like he likes Harry Potter and things like that, I was like, okay, well, maybe, maybe he would be open, like, let's just put it out there. And shockingly, he wasn't like prejudiced or anything. If anything, he was more so like, well, I don't want you to feel like you have to hide a part of yourself. And I thought because he was from a different religious background that they would be clashed there. But um, he was just very much so or like, if this is you, that's fine. But I don't want you to feel like you have to hide or feel scared to share a part of yourself. So after a while, I would sh uh show, like, oh, I'm interested in crystals or, you know, I have all these books and I'm able to do this. So slowly I was able to like share that stuff, but I was definitely hesitant at first, but more so of my own fears than that actual situation.

Regina 1:03:16

Yeah, and didn't you say your sister also started doing stuff as well? She started being interested in it as well.

Natasha 1:03:22

I'd say once she started more of her um healing journey, that's when she started to explore that um spiritual side of things because she started asking me questions about things I already knew for things that she was exploring or trying to do her own research. And then eventually we started practicing together and making more of like a family get-together out of it. But we would add the celebrations as like the practical side, like whether that's a full moon thing or there's a sabot happening, like the uh solstices or equinoxes, which are like seasonal shifts, we would like to celebrate it. And then it would just progress from there.

Regina 1:04:06

At this point, were you aware of the fact that you needed to do healing on yourself, that you needed to heal these trauma from the past, or had you not recognized that yet?

Natasha 1:04:18

First, it was more of I can tell I'm emotionally all over the place. I need to get to myself to a calmer place. But as I was exploring these emotions, I realized the depth of what that healing was because it was not just the emotions that I was triggered in. It was like, oh, I have these certain habits, I'm entertaining these certain um type of relationships, I have to rework my relationship with food. And, you know, like I saw it for like the physical, emotional, mental, and then the energy part. So once I was deep diving into the emotions, I realized that it was more than just emotions. It was stemming from, oh, this happened, and then this emotion could be connected to a belief, or you know, so that's where it kind of started going deeper for me.

Regina 1:05:07

And I'm just curious, because of what had happened with the um neighbors and the sexually explicit activities that happened, did that have any effect on your sexual relationships later or you exploring your sexuality?

Natasha 1:05:24

So I started once I would say for that, the impact for the sexual abuse stuff in my past, it came up as me carrying shame in my own body or me feeling scared to allow myself to experience pleasure on my own terms without feeling there's some weird conditions behind it. So the more I started, I guess, connecting with my body, I felt like I was trying to reclaim that relationship with my body and heal that because I felt like a some certain extent in the past, I was more so just. Kind of living and being for others, regardless of what I wanted or what I knew of. I saw that more as like trying to heal my womb space and trying to heal those memories and trying to clear out those energies that are not my own and things of that nature.

Regina 1:06:14

Okay. So I see now that you are starting to gradually build professional practice. So when did you decide to leave Dairy Queen behind and start doing this full-time or more as a profession?

Building a spiritual practice into a legitimate business

Natasha 1:06:32

Well, the Dairy Queen definitely progressed to other part-time jobs. It was like Dairy Queen, Dollar Tree, Dollar General. And then I landed at a phone company called Cricut Wireless. Once I had my daughter with my partner, at that point I almost felt this drive, this push to really pursue it. But at first, it wasn't a full-time thing. It was more like a side thing. So I was doing these readings at first online just to kind of bring some money and also get more comfortable with the idea of putting myself out there and kind of building a name for myself. But once I started to match my own paychecks at my job, I realized I was like, you know what? If I had more time for this to dedicate to this, then I can obviously make more. And it doesn't take as much time when I'm doing this to make as much, you know. So I was like, I definitely want to put more efforts. So at a certain point, I started saving up money and I started educating myself on like tax language and how laws worked for forming an LLC and stuff like that, and looking at local regulations and laws and stuff like that. And then once I got comfortable, I was like, okay, I'm gonna put in my two weeks. And then once it's tax um return time, and we get all those funds on top of my savings, then I'm gonna go for it. I started my LLC, I would say three years ago.

Regina 1:07:59

What is LLC? Limited liability.

Natasha 1:08:02

A limited liability company, yeah. It's a type of business structure that's good to kind of separate you from your business assets and the worst case scenario of you being sued. And it's also a certain structure for taxes as well.

Regina 1:08:17

Was your family very supportive of that?

Natasha 1:08:20

So my sister was very supportive. She was almost like my cheerleader. My mom was more so curious, like, hmm, what you gonna do with this? Are you serious? And then my dad, he is more so of you must be scamming people. This can't be real. How are you made? So he was still on the other side of it and still kind of is to this day, just because we don't see eye to eye in terms of that profession as well as that type of like spirituality versus religion. So that's fine with me, but that's the way it is. Let's see, you started off doing free readings online. Yeah.

Regina 1:08:58

And who were you doing them for?

Natasha 1:09:01

So at first I was joining some like Facebook groups. I was wanting to feel comfortable. And I at first I didn't feel confident charging because I was like, I want to see what I can do first and just get the feedback, get into the routine. So I started with like typing. Um, like people would make a post, I would comment under it, we could message each other privately on DM inbox, and we would just talk on text, and they would be blown away, like floored. And I was like, oh wow, thank you. Then eventually, when I was doing it as an actual side thing to like have people charge, um, it would just be like a PayPal situation, and then people um could either do virtual. I think the time was either Skype or something instead of Zoom, and then um also phone call.

Regina 1:09:56

I guess all this time this is building up your confidence more and more to actually then do your own.

Natasha 1:10:02

Because I was already doing it, but I was scared to do it at like I wanted to find what's my threshold, like what's my flow, my routine to get into this. How do I best operate in like in this setting? And then um just you know, getting comfortable, I guess, was was the main part of it.

Regina 1:10:21

Up until this point, you're pretty much self-taught everything you know.

Natasha 1:10:25

Yeah, up until after I had my daughter, I started going to see my own Reiki master healer, just for me to have Reiki done for me as I was going deeper in my healing. And then that's when I started to not only pursue like me having Reiki done, but I started to actually get my certifications done in Reiki healing. And then that was just like more like on top of just the readings, Reiki healing.

Regina 1:10:54

And what did you think about Reiki when you discovered it?

Natasha 1:10:56

When I discovered it, I was a little skeptical because I wasn't sure how exactly it worked, and I just wanted to see how I responded since I was so sensitive to energy already. But it to me, it felt like a big reset. And it felt like everything that I was already doing intentional work on was had an opportunity to just flow out of me, or just easily, as opposed to me being maybe a little bit more resistant, or I was having trouble getting deeper to those parts. So to me, it was great just to kind of reset and to be able to do all that.

Regina 1:11:34

You discovered a type of local spiritual community, and you started hanging out with them for a bit. So talk about that dynamic because I know from personal experience, everybody thinks that the spiritual community and everybody's all love and light and love each other and flowing clothes, but it's like anywhere. There people stab you in the back, people are saying nasty things. Yeah. So talk about your experience.

Natasha 1:12:03

Yeah, when I was first um discovering my local community, at first it was like looking for the local metaphysical shops or the local witchy shops where they would sell like the you know, the spices, the incense, the crystals, the little tools or singing bowls, things like that. I would go to those physical places and they would host events. Some of them were free, not all of them you had to pay for. So I would go to the free ones. And me, my sister, my daughter, we would basically just go to like these local moon circles where they would celebrate the full moon or the new moon. We would go to these drum circles where community would bring their own instruments. The place, um, the shop also had their own for people just to be able to publicly use and grab. And we would all just play together and we would all find like a natural rhythm. So, like, and then there was also like these festivals where there would be a bunch of shops acting as vendors, and they would have their own little like tent, and then they would all like gather together for people to walk around, shop, eat, you know. So I would go to those spaces and uh for a while, those were fun and stuff. And after a while, you would connect with like-minded people, but it's hit or miss, obviously, because people are people, but the events were immaculate. Now, when it comes to meeting people, a lot of people like to present themselves as, you know, oh yeah, love and light, rainbows, let's just thrive and celebrate together. But you'd be surprised how people like to like it's it's like they're secretly competing with you because they're like comparing you guys constantly. And even if you're not like on their level, whether that's like business-wise or age or financial or whatever that is, it's like they will constantly try to almost like stay above you one level, or they'll try to see what you know and copy it. Like it's very weird, you know, because there was a time where I met with some like-minded people who were also spiritual entrepreneurs, and I was like so excited to be friends with them. But then I quickly realized over time, I was like, you know what? Y'all aren't celebrating anything I'm telling y'all. And then y'all would often like kind of come together and like hush, hush and keep amongst yourself. Like it was just, it started getting weird. And then that's when I started realizing, okay, I can't share everything with them. And I think I really scared them when I started showing them like my own magical journals. Some of them are called Book of Shadows, Book of Mirrors, Energy. Tell them there's different names for this, but they're like your own personal journals that you would use for your own practice. And I would show them like little glimps or pages, and they look so intimidated or shocked, being like, You already know all this. It took me years to learn this. And I'm just like, oh, well, yeah, I guess I'm just a natural witch and spirits just teach you. It's like once they saw that and knew that, they just didn't look at me the same. So that's when things kind of shifted.

Regina 1:15:08

Yeah, it can be a bit disheartening too when you think that you found community in a place like that, and then you know, your expectations are, oh, you know, everybody's trying to do something to help everybody else or to help other people, and you find out that not everybody is as kind and nice as you wish that they were. And I've been there. I've been there.

Natasha 1:15:30

Yeah. It was better sweet.

Regina 1:15:33

I loved my spiritual community in Singapore. I really did. Um, I thrived in it, but I know everybody in that community knew that there was, you know, a little nicknick talking behind people's back or this type of thing. So you just had to learn to deal with it and just ignore it and know it's not worth it. How did you finally find your people? In quotes.

Natasha 1:16:00

I finally realized who my people were when I realized not only could we agree with each other on certain aspects, but they were genuinely checking in on me and they were also excited for me, trying to celebrate. And then they would also just want to learn and grow themselves. So there was no, it didn't feel as constrictive. And I just realized it was really those people that even though they didn't seem like they were as full in as me or all in or as deep or whatever, that didn't mean that they weren't um still, you know, open to it. Maybe they were just, you know, in something deeper, like, you know, something else is bigger happening in their lives, like whether that's career or family or health or whatever that is. So I realized a lot of these people that I didn't really consider like that were already around me. It's just I just wasn't, I guess, entertaining them as much because I would see them all the time at the events, or they would join the same Facebook groups, or they would even ask of me, you know. So I realized who my people were because they were very much just celebrating me and also just genuinely trying to grow as themselves. There was there was no weirdness. So now I just find myself instead of trying to find the spaces to see what resonates, I'm trying to build these spaces so that it can be a safe place where we can just gather together. And that's what I've been working towards lately.

Regina 1:17:28

Do you think that it's better for you to have a community than to be just a solo person out there doing whatever?

Natasha 1:17:39

Practicing-wise, I prefer being a solitary practitioner. I realize that over time because every time I'm in a group setting, people want me to be the leader, or I'm just magically somehow the leader, and then people can get mad or whatever. But I like to work alone in my own personal practice, but I like to gather with others when it comes time to celebrating maybe a certain event or something. But practicing, I like to be alone. As far as the groups themselves, like that group space, going to these constrictive spaces where they say they're like this or that. I like to make an open space where people from different backgrounds or different beliefs or even different um levels of experience can gather so that they can feel safe to speak up. Because I realize a lot of my journey, I just didn't simply have that. And I really, for me, it's more so about I want to share this knowledge and experience so that it's not as hard on others and they can know what they're able to do for themselves and things like that.

Reiki and new memories of trauma surface

Regina 1:18:39

I just want to go back to the Reiki training because I have a note here that you said that when you were doing Reiki for the first time, you started recovering suppressed memories.

Natasha 1:18:50

So when you first do um Reiki training, there's different levels, but the first level that you learn is how to do Reiki on yourself before you doing it on others and long distance and things like that. So when I first got my first level certification to know how to do Reiki on myself, I started to uncover memories that I did not know, I'd forgotten. They were memories of when I had sexual abuse where things happened to me that I must have pushed out of my mind. And then I suddenly remembered it. I was suddenly feeling all these memories of these emotions. And it was like opening up a can of worms where I was at first at disbelief and also angry, like, no, no, this couldn't have happened. But then you feel so intensely, and you're starting to see it almost like a movie where it's just so undeniable of yes, this did happen. Well, how do I feel about this? And then you start to feel angry and sad. You feel a little bit scattered and messy because you're like, okay, I haven't felt this before. How do I want to move from this? And what can I do for myself now? So it just felt so overwhelming at first when you are rediscovering something that felt like it was lost, but it was just buried and dormant and suppressed.

Regina 1:20:12

And this is something that's in addition to what happened with the neighbors?

Natasha 1:20:16

This is sexual abuse that happened with family that was separate from neighbors. Okay.

Regina 1:20:26

When you discovered that, were you able to talk about that with anybody? Did you talk about it with your Reiki master?

Natasha 1:20:32

So I did talk about it with my Reiki master because at the time I felt like she was the first ever safe mentor I had, and I didn't know who else to really talk about. I knew she could take it from not only the physical healing side, but also like the mental and like spiritual, because I was like, I didn't know where to go from there. So she really helped me understand that beyond just like the memory and mental side of it, that, you know, this is coming up because you're ready, you know, to release this. And, you know, even though that this is heavy, you can finally put this past you. And I'm happy to hold your hand while we guide you through this or while you walk through this yourself. And to me, simply knowing that was actually enough to be able to face it head-on, because I was really scared to really I guess accept what happened and then be able to process it, let alone release it.

Regina 1:21:35

Would you consider that person your spiritual mentor?

Natasha 1:21:39

Definitely. Like I would say my first one was the pen pal, because she really helped me get comfortable channeling. But with my Reiki master teacher, she taught me how to go deeper into my healing and then also be able to be in my place as a healer for others. So she really helped me, I guess, transition into that.

Regina 1:22:01

Apart from Reiki, are there any other modalities that you decided to learn?

Natasha 1:22:07

As of right now, no. Reiki is the only modality besides just like my personal abilities, as well as me educating others on witchcraft.

Regina 1:22:18

Okay. You have how old is your daughter now?

Natasha 1:22:21

My daughter is now eight, eight years old.

Regina 1:22:24

So did I just hear that correctly when you said that you would take your daughter to some of these events and like for some of the uh solstice events, for example? Yeah. So is your daughter into all of this? Does she understand what's happening? And does she have any abilities?

Natasha 1:22:41

So she understands to a certain extent. She started out pretty young. I want her to be exposed to both the Christian aspect from her father's side of the family because she does um go to church occasionally with them for family stuff, and then she also joins me for events and the spiritual local events as well. So she has both. I want her to be able to choose for herself. So I want her to have both sides. And she loves attending. Her main thing is she can feel what others are feeling. So it's more empathic abilities right now. But I'm excited to see how that progresses because I feel like I've seen the women in my family, we all have our own specific sensitivity. But I love seeing how when she grows and develops, how that sharpens into her unique little thing. Because I have my well-roundedness, and I have other aunts and like my mom, like they could do their specifics, and it's always cool to see how that's different. But for her, it's more so of I can feel you. That's how it is for her right now. But she has she's definitely open, she thinks it's cool, but also she understands like the spirits part because she always hears me talking about spirits. It's like, oh, I'll be like spacing out. She'll be like, Oh, you hear something, mom? And I'm like, Yes, yes, okay. Because like she knows I'm not like trying to ignore her or like I'm just bored out of my mind. She's like, Okay, hold on, let me let me try not to bother for a second. And then she's like, Okay, did you hear that? I'm like, Yeah.

Regina 1:24:18

So how has it been for you doing this? Because you're quite young and you started quite young doing this. I mean, is it difficult for belief for people to believe that you actually have these abilities or that you pretty much are self-taught?

Natasha 1:24:36

I feel like most people that meet me, they already believe me. I don't know if it's like the energy I carry or just the way I speak, and they're like, that's head on. Like it's very rare I'll meet the skeptic. And when I do, it's like, okay, well, I'm not here to convince you. I'm just here to be at the open, the safe space. Let's just see what we can pick up or how we can work together. And then they're like, oh my goodness, wow, that's so funny. You said that, that you know, things like that. But um, now it's just more of, okay, so if this is who you are, then what can you do? What do you feel like you want to move deeper into? So, like more people are just more so, I guess, intrigued than anything. They're just like, oh.

Reflections on the pivot points in her life

Regina 1:25:20

If you were to look back over your life to this point, what do you think are some of the key pivot points that has brought you to where you are now?

Natasha 1:25:28

I would say definitely first that dream of discovering all of these practices, then oh, I can see auras and spirits, then oh, I can leave my body and I gotta protect my body. I am holding on to energies and things that are not my own. At first, I knew it as the sexual energies that weren't my own and the emotions of others that weren't my own. And then I started going deeper into I'm able to feel others' things, other people's emotions, memories. So I guess it was like the key points was discovering the new ceiling of my good. Because like every single time I thought, oh, I was done. This is it, it would always be another notch. And shockingly, even to this day, that still applies. I guess I'm just at this point where I accept that there is no ceiling. Like as long as you're alive, you can still grow. So as long as you're living and breathing, there is no limit. And I've just accepted that at this point. But it's always the deeper you go in yourself, a new height you have reached in your own abilities. And that's what I've learned.

Regina 1:26:43

Mm-hmm. And so, where is the future heading for you now? What are some of the things you're still looking at doing? And what what because you've got this, I've seen the pictures, you have this nice office space that you have created that people come to. You know, you're not working out of your home. You've got a special space, which is I actually think is a good thing because you keep that energy separate from your home.

Natasha 1:27:04

Yes.

Regina 1:27:05

Yeah. So talk about what the future holds and the type of things that you're working on now.

Natasha 1:27:10

So what I'm expanding into is more events where I'm hosting events, most likely going to be more virtual at first until I have a bigger space to actually do like more things in the office, but gonna expand into events where I can be more so teaching classes and things like that, or we can have community celebration of our own moon circles, but virtual for people that don't have the local community thing. I also want to expand where I'm eventually just giving um either online shop where people can download their own resources. So resources, events, but basically teaching. That's where I'm feeling the pull now, where I want to go beyond just working one on one. I want to teach you and equip you so that you can be able to do for yourself and learn well, what are The possibility because there's no one right correct way. I want to show them all the different ways that other cultures or other beliefs or other practitioners may interpret that and what resonates, what is your soul screaming at? Help people learn how to find that click, discover that. So that's where I'm feeling the pull is going beyond services and helping people learn and creating these spaces for that, giving them the resources.

Regina 1:28:28

That sounds great. And have you ever had anybody come to you that you've just felt like, I don't want to do a reading for this person for one reason or another?

Natasha 1:28:36

Yes. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. I would say there's a few instances. Like one, if you're coming to see me and you were with other readers, whether that's tarot or other psychics, other meetings, whatever, and you're just shopping around because you want to hear a specific thing said, I'm sorry. I'm not here to confirm what they said. I'm not here to say what you want me to say. I'm here to say what is coming through. And it may be ugly, it may be beautiful, but I promise you, you're gonna need to hear it whether you want to or not. So sometimes I will reject and say, you know what? You clearly want me to say something to you, and I don't feel comfortable, and you're not getting what you want or need. So I'm gonna refund you and please don't come back. And they will respectfully just, yeah. So it's like, okay. And then other times, maybe there's a person that um they're attracted to you, and it's like, okay, look, this is inappropriate, this is my soul work, this is not right. Plus, I have a partner, like, no, no, you know what I mean? So there's some instances where you have to turn them on because they may have their own agenda, and you have to let them know that this is my work, this is my career, and I actually care about this work that I'm doing. This is what I live for, this is my purpose. So I have to reject them and then I will block them, or just, you know, I would I would just tell them my piece and be like, look, I'm here to be respectful, and you need to respect my time, you know.

Regina 1:30:11

It's interesting where you have your daughter. Have you thought about doing something with kids?

Natasha 1:30:16

So the only thing I have done with kids, I've done tuning fork sound healing on babies, infants, little children of my clients when I go to their homes. I have a service called space clearings and blessings where I go to local clients' houses to um to basically cleanse and bless their space. And then beyond just the space, if they have children that are highly sensitive and they're having paranormal experiences, I will like to cleanse them and also set protection on them before I leave as well. So that's the only work I've done with like children. Beyond that, I'm just not comfortable.

Regina 1:30:54

No, but I don't mean like that. I mean, like, for example, in Singapore, we used to have somebody, they would like get a bunch of kids together and they would let them play with like sound healing instruments, sort of to expose them type of thing, or to a drumming circle. Like kind of like how you're you said you took your daughter, you know, but to actually have one that's geared towards kids.

Natasha 1:31:15

I would love to be able to do that when I have the space, but as of now, no, I have not. That way you get your daughter involved.

Advice to kids and parents

Regina 1:31:24

Okay, so I want to ask you for some advice to somebody who had gone through what you were going through as a kid. What would you tell an adult to look out for? Think of yourself as a kid and think of somebody else, and then think that this child is approaching their parent and trying to tell them that. What is the advice that you would give to the parent to help their child in ways that you were not helped?

Natasha 1:31:50

Hmm. Well, I guess my advice would be more so of whether someone believes you or not, it is important to be able just to speak up to say what the truth is. It's important to say what's happening, even if people don't believe it. It's important to get out there, not to hold it in, internalize it, and just get mad. Whether you find someone that believes you or not, or just being able to just not make it a secret, is some type of power as well. I think a big thing, part of the healing aspect is that your body remembers, even if you try to force your mind to forget, everything that you try to suppress, internalize, and hold in, it catches up with you. It's going to cause inflammation in the body. You know, it can cause like these little emotions that we hold in, these memories, all the stuff that we hold in, it becomes a bigger problem than what it is the longer we let us sit in the body. So I guess that would be more so of my advice, is being able to speak up on things, even if no one believes you, even if it's just a journal, being able to speak or pray it, like not hold it in whether you could tell someone or not, and just understand that it's better to feel it in the moment and let it pass than to let it build and become a bigger problem later than what it originally was anyway.

Regina 1:33:10

And what about for the adult that the child is coming and saying this to?

Natasha 1:33:17

I would say that when children are joking, it's supposed to be like silly or funny. I don't feel like a child would just completely say, like, oh, this outrageous, horrible thing happened just for the fun and sake of it. It's important to at least consider what your children are saying. Whether you're as sensitive or mere as not, be able to hear them out and then judge for yourself whether that's your intuition or your smarts. You know, you can go from there what to do, but to consider what they're saying. Most people just shrug off little kids just because they're little, but hear them out. And then another thing is you want to make sure that you are considering the long term for that child. So not just what's the easy fast fix, but what's going to be the most beneficial for the long term and longevity for that child.

Advice on exploring witchcraft

Regina 1:34:10

Okay. So if anyone is listening to this and they are wanting to go down the path of learning more about witchcraft, what do you recommend?

Natasha 1:34:20

I recommend that you think about what are the powers that be around you. Like people think witchcraft is about the tools and what are the steps and the formula. That's not what it's about. It's about intention, presence. It's about aligning yourself, being able to be open and receptive to feel these things and use your intention and prep and presence and practice to be able to utilize these things. So I would say that your intention, your full presence, and the practice that you do is far more important than any tool, you know, any ritual. Because a lot of people they'll think about, well, what's the fastest way I can manifest this or this? But the main thing is, okay, even if I want to call this in, I know what the desire or the outcome is. How can I invite this in? How can I make sure I'm a match to this? How can I, you know, just align myself with that so that way I'm not chasing it away or being desperate for it? Because a lot of people, they don't think that way. They think about the fast, easy, quickest thing. But fast things don't like always stay. Like if you want things that will stay, it's about aligning yourself. Like, how do you embody this or align yourself with it and just have that sharp intention, full presence, and put it into practice? That's the main thing. Because there's so many different areas that you can go and explore into witchcraft, but that's to me the foundation of it as a practice.

Regina 1:36:03

Okay. And is there a tool that you can give that sort of would help somebody to know if they are aligned with something?

Natasha 1:36:12

This is the way I say it, because I like this question. I always tell people to recognize how your body and your energy respond to something. Because when something is good for you, like, yes, this is great, or okay, this is safe, we can go deeper into this. It should be able to pass through your brain, your heart, and your gut easily. It should feel light. But if it feels like it's hard and like you're kind of questionable and you're like anxious, then that means, okay, this is not good for me. This is not right, this is not safe. Let's not go deeper. So that means you have a good gut feeling. Your heart glows and you feel good about it mentally when all of that passes through you and you don't feel that tense panic, anxiety, confusion, then you know, like I may not logically understand why or know all the details, but I can feel this to be right or true or okay or safe. And trust that because your body and your energy is gonna know before your mind does. Your mind, you you're still learning. Only part of your mind is even conscious. So I really trust what my body is responding to and what my energy is telling me first. So I always tell people to see how does that pass through you, whether that's an idea, a statement, a question, how do you respond and go from there? Great.

Links, Gratitude, And Closing Reflections

Regina 1:37:39

Thank you so much. All right. So if anybody wants to connect with you, how do they do that?

Natasha 1:37:44

Yes, so you can go on my website. It's just www.psychicmediumnatasha.com. I'm also on Facebook. That's just psychic mediumnatasha LLC. You'll find my page. And then I have a YouTube channel. It's just Psychic Medium Natasha, all easy. You can find me that way.

Regina 1:38:05

All right. So all of those links will be in the show notes. Definitely go ahead and contact Natasha and check out to see what these online virtual events that she's having. And what's good is that she's opening the space for all different kinds of people so you can meet all other different kinds of people. And not necessarily from your neck of the woods. They could be international as well. So that's a great thing. That's a great thing about virtual space, is it just opens the doors across borders, across countries, everything. So it's quite good. Okay, so is there anything else that you would like to convey to listeners that you think is important? Any final words?

Natasha 1:38:45

I would say that when you are learning how to really master yourself, healing is not linear. It's more like we're just going through deeper, deeper spirals in ourselves because that's what it really is. It's like it's cycles and we're going deeper into these layers. So try not to be so hard on yourself and over-critical over the timing or how you think it would be best or how you think it should go, because those are limitations that we put on ourselves. And it's almost like we're constricting ourselves from being open to all these other amazing, unexpected fast ways that it could be that we are not even open to and we can't even think of because we are trying to make our control be a certain way and to keep it a certain way. So some things must fall and crumble to let new things start, some doors must shut for new things to come in. So just the only constant in life is change. And it's important to learn how to be adaptable and to learn how to allow things to fall how it may and unfold how it is, so that we can just adjust for what is best for us. And that is truly the best way to have a new perspective on it instead of just, I need to figure out what am I not doing enough of? What do I need to do more of? How do I keep it pushing to maintain this? Because that's going to feel like juggling and it's going to be nothing but anxiety, and that's going to feel like it's harder than it should be. Yeah.

Regina 1:40:20

Yeah. That's really good advice because we're always up and down all over the place, evolving, devolving, plateauing, falling. Yeah, it's constant. It's constant. The point is to not give up. Yes. Okay. Thank you so much, Natasha. I know we had a little bit of a glitch, but that's okay. We got everything and uh we sorted it out. So you know, it's funny because just as you sent me back a message before saying everything was 100% uploaded, I'd just been sitting there to the universe saying, okay, universe, please let her phone upload everything. Come on. And I got the message like right after that, that it was 100% awesome. Good job, universe. Good job. Anyway, thank you so much. I really appreciate the time that you have taken and I wish you all the very best in your endeavors. And I hope that people have heard what you have to say, and that can, even if it's not for them, if they know somebody who's in that situation, please reach out. You know, these things do happen. And also discover what is your spiritual tools and what it is that you are about and where is your energy interested in, and use some of the tools and advice that Natasha has given because it's, I think it's really good and it's coming from very personal experiential wisdom, is which is what we like here on Wisdom Without the Guru. So thanks everybody. Thanks, Natasha, and until the next time, have a beautiful day or night wherever you are in the world. Bye bye, everybody.