Speech Therapist Michelle Roberts Reveals The Real Reason You Over-Explain Everything

When anxiety hijacks your words and attachment wounds sabotage your relationships, what's the path back to authentic connection?

The Journey from Broadway Dreams to Brain Rewiring

Meet Michelle Roberts, a licensed speech-language pathologist turned communication coach who's cracking the code on why we struggle to say what we mean, and mean what we say. From panic attacks that lasted for hours to helping performers reclaim their voices, Michelle's story is one of transformation through the science of human connection.

What You'll Discover:

🧠 The Hidden Psychology Behind Over-Explaining

• Why your need to justify everything isn't weakness, it's empathy in overdrive
• The neurological reason your brain treats emotional conflict like physical danger
• How to turn defensive conversations into collaborative connections

⚡ The Anxiety-ADHD-Attachment Triangle

• Michelle's personal battle with daily panic attacks and how she conquered them
• Why people with ADHD often become chronic over-analyzers
• The difference between intuition and anxiety (and how to tell them apart)

🔄 Literally Rewiring Your Brain

• The fascinating science behind "neurons that fire together, wire together"
• How attachment styles can actually be changed through conscious choice
• Why feeling "fake" at first is actually proof the rewiring is working

The Breakthrough Moments:

"I used to convince myself something horrible was happening medically and have a full-on panic attack... it would take me hours to come down from that."

"Every time we make a choice to not do that and do something else, that forms another neural pathway and over time weakens the old one and strengthens the new one."

"I wouldn't say that I've officially made myself securely attached, but I am much further along than I was even a year ago."

Perfect For You If:

• You're tired of feeling like you "suck at communication"
• Your explanations always sound like excuses (even when they're not)
• You're stuck in anxious attachment patterns that sabotage relationships
• You want to understand the actual science behind changing your communication style
• You're curious about the connection between ADHD, anxiety, and social struggles

The Tools You'll Learn:

✅ The 5-stage framework for navigating difficult conversations
✅ Physical techniques to spot when your nervous system is hijacking your words
✅ Mindfulness strategies that actually work for racing ADHD minds
✅ How to validate others while still expressing your perspective
✅ The difference between therapy and coaching (and when you need which)

This isn't just another communication tips episode. This is a deep dive into the messy, beautiful intersection of neuroscience, attachment theory, and real human healing from someone who's lived it all and has the clinical expertise to guide you through.

Ready to stop fighting yourself and start rewiring your brain for authentic connection?

🎧 Press play and discover why your "flaws" might actually be your superpowers in disguise.

Find Michelle: @authentic_expression on TikTok | @authentic__expression on Instagram | www.authentic-voiceandspeech.com

Her conflict resolution course is available now because sometimes the most important conversations are the hardest ones to have.

Transcript

Rob Pene (00:00.974)
Okay, we are recording in real time. Thank you everyone. This is Michelle Roberts. It's nice to meet you. That's the name of the podcast actually. The podcast is literally me being truly interested in different people. Last year I couldn't walk, talk, or sleep. At some point during the year I couldn't do all of that at the same time. towards the end of the year my voice came back and I'm like, dude, God, I'm gonna do whatever I can to use this voice.

be a good steward, and I just did the podcast. And it was fun, thinking through that. And it's fun going through it. Now, you stood out to me because of your content around communication, and then conflict resolution in communication. And then I think you might have talked about maybe some of the attachment styles as well.

Michelle (00:51.102)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rob Pene (00:58.762)
So I'm like, yo, I suck at communication. I want to be better. I need to know how to be a little more confident, a little more brief, you know, because I get too verbose and stuff. I'm like, let me just reach out. You know, let me just reach out. And man, I appreciate you being willing to share your expertise and a little bit of your story. So thank you for being here.

Michelle (01:20.309)
I'm so happy to be here and thank you for sharing that. That's so, I mean, I would love to hear more about your journey with what you went through.

but the whole thing. But I will say you certainly do not suck at communication because the fact that you are putting yourself out there and truly like investing so much time and energy into this, that takes someone who is very good at connecting with others. And that's really what communication is all about, in my opinion. It's just using, it's purely externalizing your internal world, which sounds like you're doing wonderfully. So kudos to you.

Rob Pene (01:52.747)
Hmm.

Boy, oh my gosh, thank you. I received that and I appreciate it. So I start the podcast by asking a question. A friend of mine calls it the ignition question. It ignites the conversation from there. So I'm gonna throw it out there to you. In the last six to 12 months, if you were to reflect on that timeframe and turn that into a Netflix special, what would your movie or special be and what would it be called?

Michelle (02:03.354)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle (02:18.778)
Mmm.

Rob Pene (02:24.642)
the last 6 to 12 months of your life.

Michelle (02:30.188)
is such a great question.

Rob Pene (02:33.784)
Surprise!

Michelle (02:35.37)
Yeah, let me take a moment to think about that. I mean, so the biggest, the first thing that stuck out in my mind, and again, I said nothing is no topic is off limits here, but I definitely had been going through a pretty, especially in the last six months, a pretty significant.

Rob Pene (02:39.032)
Look at that.

Michelle (02:57.028)
pretty transformational issue in my personal life with a relationship. And honestly, the work I have done through that has kind of birthed the conflict resolution course that I made and a lot of the things that I learned about myself and some of the mistakes that I have made in regards to expressing myself. I learned a lot from that, but then also being on the receiving end.

of things that I wish would have gone a bit differently. So just reflecting on that and then also, especially I mentioned this in the post about over explaining with kind of that more anxious attachment style. That is me trying to give myself advice because I constantly feel like I, and I still struggle with this. feel like I constantly have to explain the why of everything.

Rob Pene (03:38.808)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Pene (03:52.878)
Mmm.

Michelle (03:53.41)
especially in my personal life and in my relationships. And, okay, I came up with it. So what my Netflix special would be, would be carrying over the things I teach to my clients and what I've really embodied in my professional life and carrying that over into my personal life. So it's truly a practice what you preach.

sort of thing. So maybe my title would be like, I don't know, practicing what I preach or like bridging the gap or something like that. Again, really carrying over things that I've truly been able to embody and incorporate into my professional life again, into my day to day personal life.

Rob Pene (04:38.668)
Yeah, okay, okay. So if we're open for topics in this, you mentioned a few things that really stood out to me that I'd like to kind of dig a little bit deeper on because I know that I struggle with some of the same things. Sometimes I explain too much when it could sound like it's an excuse, right? On the other end, somebody's gonna think, it's an excuse when I'm actually trying to,

Add more color and really explain right what wasn't clear before But it feels like to me when I do explain it's a bad thing on the receiving end It's it feels like it's weak. It's an excuse when in fact, it's not because I want to give you enough data for you to make your decision, right? Why why does it feel bad for me? So because then I'm like, don't want to say anything anymore You know

Michelle (05:20.879)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. that's a symptom of empathy.

Rob Pene (05:38.112)
Is that a good approach? Am I supposed to feel bad about explaining myself or isn't it an excuse? Like, should I just?

Michelle (05:50.906)
That's a sign, the symptom is that that's a sign of you in the moment wanting to put yourself in the other person's shoes and thinking in my opinion. So I am thinking of, because I do the same thing and it's something I've worked on. Well, I'll get to that. But I think that the fact that you even reflect on that and think about that is a pure sign that you are empathizing with the other person's experience.

and wanting to make sure that they don't feel like you're pointing the finger or purely blaming or that, yeah. And so I have dealt with that as well. what my, I don't know if you're asking for advice, but what my, quick thing that I utilize in those situations when I catch myself doing it is I validate the other person. I say, I just say, I understand that.

this came across this way, or I'll even say like, I am not blaming you for the situation. I'm just explaining my point of view and telling you what I did. And I'm trying to look at ways that I can change this as well, or if this happens in the future, these are ways that on my end, I would want to do things differently, but really making it clear that this is like a collaborative, productive conversation.

Rob Pene (07:14.634)
no.

Michelle (07:16.964)
versus trying to just over explain.

Rob Pene (07:21.174)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're saying explaining is good because it overshadows blame and it's not an excuse because you're trying to open up and empathize to connect.

Michelle (07:35.864)
Yes, exactly. And as long as you're acknowledging and validating what the other person's experience was or asking them, just say, like, I want to hear what you feel about this too. I want to hear your perspective, but I want to share my perspective with you how this went. And then I want to hear yours. Just making sure that it feels very two ways and collaborative.

Rob Pene (07:37.57)
Okay, so I need... Yeah.

Rob Pene (07:59.724)
Yeah.

Michelle (08:01.434)
is how it will truly come across that way. And then you will feel that and that's gonna help you feel truly more open and connected in the moment.

Rob Pene (08:11.714)
Gotcha. So, okay, okay, that makes sense. when you're explaining, it's an open invitation to collaborate on the conversation and not to feel defensive. Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle (08:21.658)
Yes, yeah, yeah. And it's so quick to get that defense up. So I talk about this in my course as well, but fight or flight, our brain perceives psychological danger. That's kind of an extreme word for it, but psychological danger, threat, emotional, the same as physical.

So our body will go into fight or flight and then that's defense mode. It's truly like a psychological survival tactic to self-preserve. Again, this is a more extreme version, but that's where it comes from. And then that's what can flip a switch in the other person. If then two people start getting defensive, both people are just kind of flipping reverting back into fight or flight mode.

Rob Pene (08:52.301)
Mmm.

Michelle (09:08.984)
And that's complete defense protection mode. So then it's going to be really difficult to have that open conversation.

Rob Pene (09:17.474)
Hmm. That's good. That's really good. Yeah, of course you're the expert at it.

Michelle (09:20.346)
But again, I'm learning how to practice what I preach. That's a process and it's something I catch myself doing all the time. But I do now actively work to make those choices in the moment as much as I can.

Rob Pene (09:40.12)
Did you go to school for this kind of stuff?

Michelle (09:43.608)
Yeah. So I went to, so I have a master's, I'm a speech language pathologist. So I'm a licensed speech language and voice therapist. My primary area originally was voice therapy. So people who lose their voice have definitely, you know, any sort of voice changes. work with a lot of people who, know, teachers, anyone who's talking a lot or people who go out, you know, scream too loud at a

Rob Pene (10:07.692)
Hmm?

Michelle (10:12.836)
concert and damage their voice. So I've worked in several different settings with that medical based. But then I started my own practice about two years ago. And then that's when I started to move more into the coaching space. But yes, my training is in speech language pathology.

And that's when I truly learned kind of the psychology and the physiology of communication in general and all of the physical mechanisms we can put into place. But then through experience and kind of piecing things that I learned together is how I have bridged that gap from that more technical training into kind of a more holistic just communication coaching approach.

Rob Pene (11:04.408)
Do you see a lot of, do you work with mostly individuals or couples or groups of people? Who do you typically work with?

Michelle (11:12.442)
mean, individuals, individuals. Before COVID, I was starting to move more into the group coaching space and more into the corporate group coaching space. So I was doing trainings about implicit bias really. And I post about that as well about picking up on certain speech and voice characteristics that trigger like up talk or vocal fry, things like that, that trigger a certain perception in someone. And so I was doing

trainings on those to basically teach what this is, the perception it gives, and how to make a different choice to do it, or how to recognize it in another person. So those were the most, and then I would do some group voice trainings as well. I worked with, so my first degree is in theater, so my under, which makes sense, which tracks. So my undergrad, so I went to undergrad for theater.

And so, and I get to work with a lot of singers and actors who actually have a client after, shortly after this call and she's a singer. And so I really get to work with, do a bunch of different things, but yeah.

Rob Pene (12:21.324)
Wow, that's pretty cool. So theater, that was in undergrad, right? Now, did you wanna, could you see yourself doing what you're doing now back then? Or what was the plan? I'm gonna go Hollywood. I'm gonna go on tour.

Michelle (12:26.862)
Yeah.

Michelle (12:37.866)
Yeah, that's I love this question, because it just every time I answer this question, it makes me feel very grateful for what I have like where I am now and that I did it was able to find in this path. I didn't know that this career I didn't know speech language pathology. I knew what it was. I knew the term but I didn't really know what it was.

Rob Pene (12:45.839)
Hmm

Michelle (12:58.476)
And so yeah, my original plan, know, 18 years old, going to college, I had done theater my whole life. I've always been very expressive, very passionate about self-expression, storytelling, connecting to others through storytelling, making people feel things through communication. was always so important to me. And yeah, I thought I was like, I'm gonna go to school for theater. I'm gonna move to New York. I'm gonna be on Broadway. I'm gonna be famous. It's gonna be great.

And then around whenever I hit like my junior senior year, I started to realize like, love this so much. But I don't know if a gig to gig career is right for me. And I started to again, be like, I feel like I want a little bit more stability, but I'm going to stick with this. And then around my senior year, I wanted to go kind of more into the like, I was like, okay, I want to work.

in a community theater, I want to eventually have my own community theater, so that's why I originally moved to Chicago. I'm in Chicago, by the way, so that's why I originally moved here. But then there had always been a part of me where I loved science and everything medical, but I knew I didn't wanna be a doctor, because I'm too squeamish, but I knew that I've just always been very fascinated by.

the brain, psychology, how everything works. And then I met someone who's a speech pathologist who worked in a, she worked with people who had had strokes and those who, you know, totally lost their ability to communicate and worked with them to be able to rebuild that. And I was like, there could be a more medical side to this. And so that's when I, you know, basically completely started over. I went from like a bachelor of fine arts to a master of science. So had to take two years of

pre-ret classes like chemistry, biology, stats, things I had never taken to go to grad school. But no, I would have never, ever known, but it makes so much sense, especially now every time I work with a performer and I'm like, I perform my whole life, they're like, that makes sense now, but I'm able to really empathize with them, especially the ones who have voice issues.

Michelle (15:13.912)
because I know what that feels like to your main instrument and way to make a living when that is damaged, it is just soul crushing. And so being able to truly empathize with them on that level really improves the client therapist relationship. So no, I never would have thought of Odeer because I didn't know it existed, but truly like every day I'm grateful that I've been able to do what I've done.

Rob Pene (15:31.438)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (15:41.368)
Yeah, that's cool. I imagine you would touch on like a lot of mindset things too. Is that pretty common?

Michelle (15:47.936)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, very, yeah. And that's something that I slowly incorporated into the work I do. And I actually learned this from a colleague of mine years ago to where she, there's this, so mindful communication and I post about this as well, but that really is mindfulness, nervous system regulation, all of that is the foundation of all of the work I do.

and being that present moment awareness, that ability to keep present and know that you are able to make choices always. can choose actions whenever we're elevated and anxious, it's hard to remember that, but just by remembering that and remembering that we have that power of choice can bring us to a more regulated state. But yeah, I do a lot of that as well.

Rob Pene (16:39.576)
That's really interesting. How do you know if your nervous system is deceiving you or not?

Michelle (16:46.773)
That, ooh, I like that question.

Rob Pene (16:49.313)
you

Michelle (16:50.88)
I think it so I immediately thought of I always do this thing to where I'm like, okay, am I having anxiety or intuition? And

Rob Pene (16:57.262)
Right, right, yeah. I feel like I'm confused, let me just go sleep.

Michelle (17:02.838)
Literally, literally, like I'm a very intuitive person too, but I also have struggled with anxiety through a lot of my life and which is another reason why I am so passionate about the mindfulness and nervous system regulation work. Cause I mean, used to have years ago, panic attacks every day. Like I had really, a really serious anxiety issue. And

So I'm very used to my nervous system kicking in the air. It's so much better controlled now, but for me, it's all about the physical symptoms. As soon as you start to notice tension, for me, it always shows up here and here. Breathing faster if your heart rate is up a little faster, that is a sign that your nervous system, because it's that fight or flight, your nervous system is preparing you to fight or run.

So it's upping your heart rate, it's making you breathe faster, it's tensing around like your vital organs. So those are the signs that you're flipping into that mode.

Rob Pene (18:09.624)
So fight or flight could be synonymous to good or bad. Maybe.

Michelle (18:16.62)
Mm-hmm. Well, in times that it's a productive, helpful thing would be times that you are actually in danger. And so like a panic disorder means that your body flips into that complete mode, even if the stimulus doesn't warrant that reaction. So how I used to have really bad health related anxiety. So I would convince myself something horrible was happening medically and I can have a thought about it.

full on panic attack, heart racing, hands sweating, all of that. And it would take me hours to come down from that. And it truly just takes like healing the nervous system, healing your ability to self-regulate. And then that, you know, it took a lot of therapy to be able to kick, reroute that neural pathway in the brain. But...

Rob Pene (18:50.754)
Peace.

Michelle (19:12.472)
Yeah, it's it and then that just and then that's why I'm so passionate about teaching others that there are choices there even though we can't immediately be like, okay, I'm not anxious or having a panic attack anymore. Just the thought of like, I can do something in this moment that will help me feel better. That could be something as simple as pausing and taking a deep breath.

That could be something as simple as relaxing your shoulders down, just something to signal to your brain that you're safe. And then that can start to undo the negative route into the positive. But yeah, it can be positive if we are truly in danger, but whenever we're not, it's just causing psychological, physical distress, even if it doesn't match the stimulus.

Rob Pene (19:44.622)
you

Rob Pene (19:59.488)
Yeah, because I imagine that's where a lot of people struggle is they're fighting themselves. It's that inner me, the enemy. And that's where it becomes difficult deciphering between, is this a good response or am I just being crazy? Am I just like, wigging out? Huh.

Michelle (20:06.628)
Yes. Yep.

Michelle (20:17.452)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Then that's where that over explaining can come into play, because where our brain is just going a million miles a minute, and that's when things can go off the rails.

Rob Pene (20:22.254)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (20:32.33)
Yeah, yeah, So confidence has a lot to do with making choices, right? But the choice we make, is that tied to confidence too? In terms of the result of the choice we make or it's just.

Michelle (20:52.068)
I think it's really symbiotic. Yeah, I think it's just knowing that in those moments, and remembering that you are able, at the end of the day, you are able to have complete control of, I mean, maybe not complete, but you are able to.

guide a situation and guide your reactions to a situation. And I'm all about empowering my clients to know that and teach them how to do that. But that in self that inner knowing is where confidence comes from of knowing I don't have to be a passive bystander in this situation, I am able to be proactive and use this in any situation, I can use this as an opportunity.

Rob Pene (21:25.122)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle (21:41.668)
to purely express myself and purely connect with this person, whatever it is, that's where I believe confidence comes from.

Rob Pene (21:50.55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because then that would help increase the self-love and the appreciation, right?

Michelle (21:57.005)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rob Pene (21:59.182)
Do you deal with a lot of people that struggle with depression? mean, anxiety, I'm sure, but is, like, I guess the whole menu of issues, right?

Michelle (22:05.976)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle (22:10.074)
Absolutely. I deal with or I work with a lot of people with social anxiety. So of course that anxiety piece is there. But with that can come the tendency to self-isolate. people and speaking for myself, I would get really down on myself or then being anxious and self-isolating and not feeling like I'm living up to my potential. And I feel like that's where

Rob Pene (22:23.0)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Pene (22:37.422)
Hmm.

Michelle (22:37.892)
a lot of depression can come from and then you beat up on yourself for being depressed, which just continues the cycle. And so yes, I do work. And then I also, work with a lot of adults or people with ADHD as well. So neurodivergence, I have really bad ADHD. I mask it really well, but I am like very, and again, I think that's why I am good at what I do, cause I've been there.

And a lot of what I teach are strategies I've developed and used for myself. So yeah.

Rob Pene (23:15.738)
Okay, that's interesting. That's very interesting. What would you say is your top strategy for someone with like extreme ADHD? Because ADHD that includes like it comes with like anxiety too. Is that a natural byproduct of ADHD having anxiety or no?

Michelle (23:30.916)
Hmm.

Michelle (23:35.136)
Not always. And I tend to work with people who have both because they go into situations feeling like they're not going to be perceived correctly or that they're going to feel like they said something wrong or feel. I hear a lot to where my clients will say.

Rob Pene (23:53.326)
Let me know.

Michelle (23:58.202)
I feel like I misread the situation or I feel like I said something that, you know, shifted the tone and that made that just people were uncomfortable or something. I think with ADHD comes a really high level of self analysis and which can be a good thing, but then it can also, you know, over self analyzing. And so, so the main thing that I usually

Rob Pene (24:16.44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rob Pene (24:22.701)
Yeah.

Michelle (24:27.994)
and I'm trying to think of like the, if I were to pick one thing.

Michelle (24:34.882)
staying in the moment, mindfulness of knowing that in any moment you can choose to get out of your head, bring yourself into your body, out of your head and really take in the surroundings and ground yourself in that present moment. And that can really help the mind slow down. And I'll even say if you really feel like your mind is racing or that you're not able to pay attention, use your senses, like touch something.

hear something, notice, use your five senses to ground yourself in the moment. And that's when you can have enough mental stillness to then be like, okay, I know these strategies, I know these ways to, these choices to make to express myself in a way that feels more authentic and true to myself. But that first step is always the mindfulness and the grounding.

Rob Pene (25:26.958)
Yeah, it reminds me of the Bible verse where it says, still and know that I am God. Like that removes a lot of responsibility from you to then just be in the moment, get outside of yourself and allow the moment to happen, right? That's good. That's good. Can I switch gears a little bit? Yeah, relationships and attachment styles. I am comp-

Michelle (25:34.394)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Michelle (25:42.68)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Michelle (25:50.073)
Yeah, of course.

Rob Pene (25:55.206)
I didn't know any of those things existed until I came across just a bunch of different people and yourself included. I'm like, what? My biggest question is, there's this list of styles and are you able to be free from these crazy styles? Like to move from one or at least to be secure? Like is that, know? It's strange to me, but it makes sense. Cause as I'm hearing the description of the styles, I'm like, yeah, guilty.

Michelle (25:58.372)
Hmm.

Michelle (26:02.924)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle (26:17.656)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (26:25.002)
guilty.

Michelle (26:25.742)
Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rob Pene (26:29.794)
How easy is it to control or remove yourself from these types of styles or not to identify with it in terms of your behavior?

Michelle (26:39.424)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I think the first step, and again, I'm not a psychotherapist, but in my, from personal experience.

The first thing that helped me, I was extremely anxiously attached. to and before I knew what it was, I would kick into survival mode. I was always looking for signs of behavior shift or something in the other person, and I would just kick into high drive. My first step in starting to heal that was the why of understanding and having compassion for myself of why I was behaving that way.

Rob Pene (26:58.126)
100.

Michelle (27:20.228)
so or why I was feeling that way. So whenever I would start to notice, so and so hasn't texted me back in two hours, they hate me and they're never gonna hear from them again. And then I would catch myself in the moment and be like, okay, I am having this thought that is not founded in fact, it is informed by an experience I had in my childhood.

Rob Pene (27:34.382)
Ha

Michelle (27:46.2)
whenever I was, you know, becoming really forming my ability to experience emotions. And so I'm re-experiencing what that felt like in this moment and just recognizing that and being like, okay, that is not what's happening right now. And so that's the first step. And then the second step is yeah, the object, objectivity of the situation. Like, okay, this person didn't text me back. Like I do that to people all the time.

Rob Pene (27:46.2)
Hmm.

Michelle (28:16.042)
I get busy, I forgot, and then that helps. But I think just repetition of having those thought patterns. Because our brain, every time we do something, it strengthens a neural pathway. Every time we make a choice to not do that and do something else, that forms another neural pathway and over time weakens the old one and strengthens the new one.

Rob Pene (28:32.247)
Michelle (28:46.81)
So anytime we do or think something, it's causing certain neurons to fire together, the phrase like neurons that fire together, wire together. And then the more we choose to, I don't know why, once this is anxious side, this is the secure side, the more that we choose through that objective analysis of the moment, the more we choose to be like, nah, we're gonna think this instead.

that over time strengthens and then will become the default. That's not to say that it won't still happen at times, but just being able to more easily and quickly move to the other side. And then that's where that more secure style can start to come into play.

Rob Pene (29:31.704)
Yeah. And so that's what they mean by rewiring your brain. You literally are rewiring it.

Michelle (29:37.774)
Yeah, yeah, there's videos. It's so cool. There's videos you can see online of literal neurons connecting and they make little branches and they connect wild. And like if you have a thought, it's truly making new branches to connect and it's insane. But it's truly wiring together. And then so for example, learning to ride a bike, the first time that you are gaining that skill of being able to balance when before the first time

When I was a kid, on a bike, I was like, ain't no way this is like ever gonna happen. Like, I'm never gonna be able to balance on this thing. And it seemed impossible because my brain hadn't formed that connection. And then it did. And then the more, know, with the training wheels, it starts to form. And then the more you're able to balance, the stronger that connection becomes. Then when over time, like I, you know, now get on a bike and it's easy. And that's because that, that found date, that connection is so strong.

Rob Pene (30:37.048)
So the flipping the switch to activating the rewiring process is choice, right? So you're saying if I make a decision, something happens in my brain.

Michelle (30:49.498)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And sometimes at first, especially with the attachment style, it will not feel the most true. It's gonna feel like you're fighting against yourself. And again, I'm not a therapist. I'm not a psychotherapist. This is from personal experience. But at first, it felt like I was having to convince myself of it, which is true, because that old thought pattern was so conditioned, like deep, deep, deep, that I...

Rob Pene (31:11.15)
Yeah.

Michelle (31:14.628)
be like, okay, this isn't happening. Okay, I promise that's not what's happening. And then I would choose to have the other, you know, belief or try to force myself to and then it would be right. Right? Like I would hear back from the person 30 minutes after that and everything was fine. And so then that confirms it. And I was like, okay, I could have just been feeling that way this whole time. And then having enough experiences like that has and again, it's not to say that I'm

Rob Pene (31:38.732)
Right.

Michelle (31:42.584)
You know, I still have moments, but yeah, I wouldn't say that I've officially made myself securely attached, but I am.

Michelle (31:59.451)
much further along than I was even a year ago. So kind of going back to the first thing I talked about, that's a huge thing that I've worked on over this past year.

Rob Pene (32:09.326)
That's encouraging. Yeah, that's encouraging. Yeah, because after watching a bunch of videos and just listening, I'm like, my gosh, I'm doomed for this type of music. Yeah.

Michelle (32:11.224)
Yeah.

Michelle (32:19.126)
No, no, yeah. Took a lot of therapy for me though. A lot of therapy and self-reflection and I'm a big reader. Like if I learn about, like, I wanna read everything I can about this. Like so anxious, I read that word or the book attached. I'm all about audio books. Like I just love taking in any information. I love self analysis, things like that. So that's been really huge as well. That plus lots of therapy.

Rob Pene (32:46.486)
Yeah. All that stuff helps with the rewiring of the brain. That's pretty fascinating. Yeah. What would you say makes you different from a bunch of other coaches out there?

Michelle (32:48.546)
haha

Michelle (33:00.435)
Mm-hmm in regards to just communication coaching or just in general

Rob Pene (33:07.34)
Yeah, I guess it would be communication coaching. Yeah.

Michelle (33:11.962)
I think a couple of different, so I do come from that very science-based background. have training as a, you know, I have a deep understanding of how the brain works. I have a deep understanding of physiologically, physiological components that go into communication. I know all of the specific areas of communication, know, voice, speech, language production, body language, like I'm well-trained in all of those things from a very...

objective, like again, deep understanding of the scientific components of that. But then also my lived experience. I've lived a lot of life in my 36 years and I've, I can really empathize not just from a level of in the moment empathy, but I can, I share a lot of experiences with my clients. Like I have dealt with severe anxiety. I, I work through

Rob Pene (34:08.578)
Hmm

Michelle (34:12.322)
neurodivergence and ADHD myself. I have dealt with self isolation. I have dealt with my voice not being the way I want it whenever I'm rehearsing for a play. I have truly lived a lot of the experiences that I am helping my clients through. And I feel like that sets me apart as well.

Rob Pene (34:33.154)
Yeah, do you still do any theater or any artistic stuff?

Michelle (34:36.916)
I wish. I would love to, I go, I see theater all the time. of the really nice perks of my job is anytime I do work with a singer or performer, I work, just like a day a week at a practice in ENT clinic downtown, but we get a lot of the people who are touring in the shows. so.

Rob Pene (34:56.878)
Mmm.

Michelle (34:59.354)
I'll get, you know, they'll like give me a comp ticket to go see their show or something. But I still like, I love theater so much. I go as much as I can. That is a life goal is to be able to at least one more time be in another play. And I'm sure if I did that one time, it would just keep going. But no, I don't do it anymore. But I, that's absolutely something that I wouldn't be able to do again. I miss it a lot.

Rob Pene (35:21.494)
I can tell you miss it.

Michelle (35:23.488)
Yeah. And honestly, everything I do through like TikTok and you know, things like this, and that is a way to express myself creatively. So I am so grateful for social media and all of all of this to again, be able to be expressing myself in front of a group of people and helping them feel something feel seen. And that to me is what there was always about and to know that I am able to do that still.

Rob Pene (35:28.898)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (35:47.372)
Yes.

Michelle (35:53.87)
that I think fills that need for me.

Rob Pene (35:57.582)
Yeah, well, you're very articulate. You obviously are the communicator. Yeah, yeah, you communicate really well. Stuff that you say, I don't know if you got training on marketing or whatever, but your hooks are pretty strong, you know?

Michelle (36:00.666)
Thank you.

Michelle (36:09.569)
Really? No, I don't know what I'm doing. That's so funny because I started my own private practice two years ago. Literally did not know what I was doing. Like I was just like in chat GPT wasn't around then either. So or as far as I know, so I was like, okay, I guess I'll get my LLC. Okay, guess I'll get in text. Okay, like I just did not and I still don't like I have slowly figured out like kind of SEO and website stuff.

and like social media stuff, but I have no marketing training whatsoever.

Rob Pene (36:41.4)
Yeah, you're good. You're good. Obviously, stuff you say, it stands out. I mean, it resonated with me, a bunch of them. I'm like, yeah, let's have a chat with her. If you're to give a message to people that are on the fence, like, should I reach out and get some help? How would you get them over that hurdle to be like, yeah, no, I need to hit up Michelle?

Michelle (36:43.364)
Thank you.

Michelle (36:52.603)
Mm-hmm, good. I'd love to hear that.

Michelle (37:12.346)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle (37:16.748)
The first, and I'm all about embody. So just, what I would say is, you know, visualize who you want to become and visualize what that would look like from the outside, sound like from the outside, but then think about how it would feel to go about your day-to-day life in any situation and feel so confident in knowing that you are able to have control over how others.

Rob Pene (37:26.656)
in it.

Michelle (37:44.92)
you know, perceive you and meaning truly authentically express yourself and to know that that's possible and to really sit in that knowing and that feeling of like, can truly feel this. I just need some guidance. I just need to learn some tools and I just need to practice it again, that wiring the brain and like practicing makes it happen. I need a space to learn that and to practice that.

Rob Pene (38:09.153)
Yeah.

Michelle (38:13.742)
and to have guidance. So I'm there giving feedback, I'm there giving tips along the way, making adjustments, and then giving my clients a toolkit to then be able to utilize it on their own after they're done working with me.

Rob Pene (38:31.148)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. You sound like you're really, really, really good at what you do.

Michelle (38:37.846)
Thank you! Thank you. I like to think so. But I think that comes purely from a place of...

Michelle (38:48.578)
wanting to empower others. And I, cause that's a journey I've had myself from a place of true, just disempowerment, a feeling like I didn't have say or control of anything happening and stepping, gradually stepping into a place of like, you know what I do. And I feel a lot better when I do and just wanting other people to uncover and experience that for themselves. I truly am so passionate about.

Rob Pene (39:15.82)
Yeah, that's great. If people want to reach out to you, where would they find you?

Michelle (39:20.986)
So you can find me on TikTok at Authentic underscore expression. I'm also on Instagram at Authentic underscore underscore expression, two of those. You can look me up. So my name's Michelle Roberts. I have a practice called Authentic Voice and Speech based in Chicago. I do offer virtual telehealth coaching sessions. can't do therapy. I can't do like speech or voice.

therapy. The difference there is, if you're having a voice condition or speech condition, something like that's therapy, I can only do that if you're in Illinois, because I'm only licensed in Illinois. something the majority of what we've talked about today is communication coaching. And so I offer virtual services across the US for that. And then my website is www.authentic-voiceandspeech.com. But my name is Michelle Robertson. I'm in Chicago.

Rob Pene (40:16.908)
Yeah. Did you want to mention something about your conflict coaching the course that she's in? Yeah.

Michelle (40:22.802)
Yeah. Yes. that's on. I can give you the link for that if that'd be helpful, but there is it's on the link tree and all of my social media. But yeah, I developed a course or I'm currently still developing and it's a little over halfway done now. But I break down navigating difficult conversations or conflicts into five different stages. So the first is like nervous system regulation, the then

setting an intention, laying the foundation of it, entering the conversation. Third is active listening, the listening component. Fourth is expressing yourself. Fifth is the resolution and repair and reflection. So broke it down into five stages and then each module has exercises and instruction and things that you and materials that you can download and to really help practice and help this.

to become more of an automatic default. But for any, it's geared towards professional situations, personal, in your relationships with a partner or friends. And I really tailored it to be very all-encompassing. But the link for that is in all my link trees on social media.

Rob Pene (41:37.39)
That's awesome. That's awesome. sounds, man, I it's bad, but it sounds like those people that got caught at Coldplay would need this.

Michelle (41:46.746)
my god, can you imagine? I was just reading his statement out and he's like blaming Coldplay for it. And I'm like, dude, it's not their fault. Yeah, for real.

Rob Pene (42:02.093)
Oh, feel bad. Goodness. Thank you for the time. And you clearly displayed your expertise, so I really appreciate that. And I'm going to take some nuggets from this to get better. So I am going to add your information into the description. oh, is he getting ready for the part?

Michelle (42:05.466)
You

Michelle (42:23.278)
Perfect. He is, is, he is of course perfect timing.

Rob Pene (42:28.558)
Come on, on, come on, come on, on come on. Yeah, come on Moch. Yeah, see? Yeah. Wow, he's so cute.

Michelle (42:41.722)
Show is yours! Is that a Shih Tzu?

Rob Pene (42:48.642)
I have a niece.

Michelle (42:50.938)
Lebanese, my goodness, so precious.

Rob Pene (42:53.614)
Wow, what is that one?

Michelle (42:58.35)
He's four, how about yours?

Rob Pene (42:59.764)
okay. Yeah, this dude's two. I think two.

Michelle (43:03.738)
he's four. This is Darryl. But yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I just you're such a good interviewer. You really are. Questions you ask are really like I really enjoyed this a lot.

Rob Pene (43:11.544)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (43:19.148)
Nice.

Rob Pene (43:24.386)
Thank you, I appreciate it. That's cool, right on. Yeah, that feels good to know. Because I'm literally, genuinely interested. Yeah, I'm curious, so.

Michelle (43:34.394)
Yeah, and it comes across, it shows. that's, yeah, and that's what makes things like this so enjoyable is the fact that you are genuinely interested in it. seems that, you know, the questions are so organic and yeah, it flows. So again, kudos to you for doing this. And I can't even imagine how much work goes into it. So I think that's really great.

Rob Pene (43:48.792)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (43:57.504)
Yeah, well, I appreciate it. I'm grateful that I can talk. So I'm doing the best that I can and

Michelle (44:01.858)
Yeah, I mean, I would love to hear about that as well.

Rob Pene (44:08.844)
Yeah, wild. was wild. I couldn't even string a sentence together. Not even a few words. Yeah, I'm sitting next to my kids and I'm texting them like, yeah. Yeah, but I believe it's a miracle that that I'm healed. Yeah, I really believe so. So I believe in miracles.

Michelle (44:18.891)
my gosh, wow.

Michelle (44:24.066)
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, same.

Rob Pene (44:30.924)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this is probably one of them, huh, boy?

Michelle (44:36.298)
Yeah, aw, they truly are like little angels.

Rob Pene (44:39.67)
Yeah. They should be on the picture for the episode. Okay. Yeah, look at him. Wow. man. So cute. All right. Thanks again, and I'm going to stop the recording. Peace out, people.

Michelle (44:47.573)
Yeah!

Michelle (45:01.146)
Thank you.